The Grand Tourist with Dan Rubinstein

Episode: Annie Lennox: “I Don’t Buy Into the Game”
Release Date: September 10, 2025
Host: Dan Rubinstein
Guest: Annie Lennox, singer-songwriter and pop icon

Overview

In this Season 14 premiere, Dan Rubinstein sits down with Annie Lennox to trace her journey from Aberdeen childhood to international superstardom and activism. The conversation delves into the visual culture of her music career, her acclaimed new visual memoir ("Annie Lennox Retrospective"), and her philosophical stance on fame, creativity, and advocacy. Lennox’s candor, wit, and wisdom illuminate not just a life in music, but a lifetime of reinvention, self-possession, and intention.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Childhood in Aberdeen and Early Musical Influences

• Annie recounts growing up in Aberdeen during the '50s and '60s, describing a tough, working-class neighborhood influenced by Scotland’s shipbuilding industry ([03:37]).
• Her father played bagpipes; music was ever-present in the household. She began on a toy piano at age three, later joining a local choir ([06:31]).
• "I loved music. I was singing when I was about six or seven in a local choir and learning about rhythm and about singing in tune and keeping time and just the fundamentals of music making." – Annie Lennox ([06:51])

2. Formal Musical Training and Pivotal Move to London

• Won a place at a "posh" school outside her district and learned under strict expectations ([04:59]).
• Took up flute at 11 due to a school's spare instrument—her first exposure to wind instruments ([08:12]).
• Gained admission to the Royal Academy of Music in London, but dropped out upon realizing the classical path was not for her ([13:18]).
• "I knew that wasn't the right place for me. So that was devastating because I knew I'd have three years to spend there and where was I heading into a place I didn't want to go." – Annie Lennox ([13:33])

3. Finding Her Artistic Voice: From The Tourists to Eurythmics

• After leaving the Academy, supported herself with odd jobs in Camden, London, while nurturing songwriting ambitions ([13:18]).
• Meeting Dave Stewart through Camden market connections proved pivotal; he recognized her vocal talent and encouraged her to focus on music ([16:53]).
• "He said to me, you're an artist. You don't need to be waitressing." – Annie Lennox ([16:59])
• Together with Stewart and Pete Coombs, she formed The Tourists, touring and releasing albums before Stewart and Lennox formed Eurythmics ([18:46]).
• Their tenacity fueled Eurythmics’ rise: "When you have nothing to lose and you have everything to gain, you just go for it 100%." – Annie Lennox ([20:35])

4. Visual Culture and Iconic Imagery

• A lost gold bracelet in Australia, pawned and traded for a video camera, launched the duo’s experimentation with visuals. This technology—rare at the time—enabled Eurythmics to shape their image on their terms ([22:44]).
• "The visual element of Eurythmics was very important to us because it was like, not only did we have these songs, but we had to say something visually. And we loved it because it was like storytelling." – Annie Lennox ([24:06])
• The “Sweet Dreams” video, featuring surreal visuals such as a board table and a roaming cow, became iconic ([25:39]).

5. Fashion, Androgyny, and Autonomy

• Annie describes the practicality and radicalism of her signature androgynous look—born not from stylists, but from thrifting affordable menswear ([29:30]).
• "I wasn’t trying to look like a man. I wanted to be an equal. That was more the thinking behind it. I didn’t want to be an objectified pretty girl." – Annie Lennox ([31:35])
• She emphasizes that there were no stylists then—they styled themselves, expressing autonomy and intention ([31:50]).

6. Acting Interludes and the Nature of Stage Performance

• Was encouraged to act, but reflects that her deepest, truest performances are as herself on stage, not as a fictional character ([33:43]).
• "When I'm performing the songs that we wrote and I wrote, I'm actually being me, you know, really at the core, at the soul level, that is very much who I am." – Annie Lennox ([34:25])

7. Peak Pop Moments: Performing with David Bowie

• Recounts her show-stealing turn alongside David Bowie at the Freddie Mercury tribute, standing in for Freddie Mercury on "Under Pressure," days after becoming a mother ([36:11]).
• On her iconic look: "That frock that I wore, I thought it has to be like, massive black and it needs, like crinoline underneath to make it flare out. And it should be like armor, like Joan of Arc, you know." ([38:11])
• The performance’s intensity and spontaneity: "...it was all absolutely intuitive. Everything just fell into place. I get goosebumps talking about it now to you." ([40:15], [40:46])

8. Establishing Identity Amid 1980s Pop Titans

• On comparisons to Bowie or Grace Jones: "I'd be honored and flattered...But I need to be myself. I can't be sort of half this and half something else." ([42:48])
• "Ultimately you as a performer, you have to be you. No question." ([43:55])
• Discusses the destructive effects of fame and the importance of keeping part of oneself private ([44:18]).
• "I don't buy into the game. I believe in the music and I believe in the magical aspects of music, but for me personally, that doesn't work. I have to keep a part of myself." ([44:18])

9. Roots and Personal Philosophy on Fame and Authenticity

• Scottish working-class roots and family activism shaped her skepticism towards fame and exceptionalism ([44:18]).
• She likens the camera’s power to the old belief that photographs steal a piece of the soul, and warns against selling oneself for celebrity ([44:18]).

10. Activism: From Family DNA to the Global Stage

• Family tradition of activism inspired her, reaching back to grandparents fighting fascism between the world wars ([47:44]).
• Shares the story of how seeing Sting’s Amnesty International letter and missing Live Aid due to vocal injury influenced her determination to use music for advocacy ([49:31]).
• Major impact: performing at Nelson Mandela’s 2004 Cape Town concert for his AIDS foundation; moved by the women and children afflicted, she commits to maternal health causes ([49:44]-[53:52]).
• "Music is so strong. It carries messages, it inspires people, it tells stories. It goes deep to the heart and to the mind." ([50:08])

11. Reflection: Memoir, Legacy, and Advice for the Next Generation

• On assembling "Annie Lennox Retrospective," Lennox sees her life as a "shapeshifter," each era characterized by different performances, images, and emotions ([54:19]).
• "Looking back, I was just like, how the hell did we do it? How did we have such an output?" ([55:54])
• Offers advice to young artists about photo shoots: Know yourself, set boundaries, and do not be a passive puppet. "If it's going to be sexual, make sure that that's okay with you, that that's an aspect of yourself that you want to show...It's about you. So don't be scared. Don't just be a puppet." ([57:15], [58:19])
• If she could send an email to her younger self: "Don't worry so much...I suffered from stage fright for years...Just don't be afraid anymore." ([60:31])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Fame & Authenticity:
  “This thing of fame and exceptionalism can be very, very destructive. I think it’s such a powerful force that people actually almost sell their souls in a way. I just don’t, I don’t believe in it. I believe in the music...for me personally, that doesn’t work. I have to keep a part of myself. I don’t buy into the game.” — Annie Lennox ([44:18])

• On Visuals and Self-Styling:
  “I wasn’t trying to look like a man. I wanted to be an equal...It’s like, what is comfortable for you? What looks good on you? What do you feel good in?” — Annie Lennox ([31:36])

• On Creative Partnerships:
  “When you have nothing to lose and you have everything to gain, you just go for it 100%.” — Annie Lennox ([20:35])

• On Performance as Self-Discovery:
  "When I'm performing the songs that we wrote and I wrote, I'm actually being me...It's really embodying the deepest aspect of your being." — Annie Lennox ([34:25])

• On Activism:
  "Music is so strong. It carries messages, it inspires people, it tells stories. It goes deep to the heart and to the mind." — Annie Lennox ([50:08])

• On Advice for Young Artists:
  “If it’s going to be sexual, make sure that that’s okay with you, that that’s an aspect of yourself that you want to show...Don’t just be a puppet...It’s about you.” — Annie Lennox ([58:19])

• On Self-Acceptance and Anxiety:
  "Don't worry so much because I was very, very worried and I was very anxious and, you know, going on stage is not...it's still an element of, you know, I suffered from stage fright for years and years, and now I don't." — Annie Lennox ([60:31])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Fame and Authenticity: [00:00], [44:18]
• Childhood and Musical Upbringing: [03:37]-[08:09]
• Formal Education and Moving to London: [10:45]-[13:18]
• Meeting Dave Stewart & The Tourists: [16:53]-[18:46]
• Eurythmics’ Visual Language: [22:44]-[26:00]
• Style and Androgyny: [29:30]-[32:56]
• Acting and Performance: [33:41]-[35:36]
• Collaborations and "Under Pressure" with Bowie: [36:11]-[41:41]
• On Fame, Comparison, and Identity: [42:33]-[44:18]
• Activism and Advocacy: [47:16]-[53:52]
• Memoir, Reflection, and Artist Advice: [54:04]-[60:31]

Conclusion

Annie Lennox's journey, as recounted in this episode, is one of creative courage, strategic self-possession, and profound humanity. Her reflections offer not just a behind-the-scenes look at pop history, but enduring lessons in remaining true to oneself, making bold statements through art, and leveraging a platform for greater good.