← The Grand Tourist with Dan Rubinstein
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- [00:00]
Francois Allard
Don't be shy, don't be shy. Do it. Experiment. Don't follow rules. Invent your own rules. Don't be stuck with yourself, with a discourse. You know, something I really don't like is when photographer have to have a discourse. A discourse, you know, okay, this is a body of work I'm doing, you know, if it's not ready in front of you, forget it, you know, I mean, it's immediately strong, you know.
- [00:28]
Dan Rubenstein
Hi, I'm Dan Rubenstein and this is the Grand Tourist. I've been a design journalist for more than 20 years and this is my personalized guided tour through the worlds of fashion, art, architecture, food and travel. All the elements of a well lived life. If you're a fan of the podcast, then you know that my professional background before the Grand Tourist was mostly in magazines, especially ones on design and home. No matter which publication, it was always about documenting the best that architects, decorators and product designers could create. Instead of shooting models, something like a sultry bedroom or tranquil garden became our stars as well as the talents who created them. And unlike fashion magazines, where editors and photographers could become household names, those behind the camera in my world tended to stay rather unknown. But one name has risen above the rest. A rare talent who has been able to successfully sell a series of coffee table books that sell on his name alone, instead of venerating a designer or touting a particular style, Francois Allard. Francois's work often has a sumptuous flavor photographically, and his eye for interiors seems to be on another level. He doesn't just take pictures of a room, but captures a bit of the soul of a place. He's done three books with Rizzoli to date, among many others, and each have become collector's items, and it's almost impossible not to spot one on the coffee tables of the cultural elite. His books have often taken on a diary like quality, mixing handwritten notes with polaroids and incidental shots of magazine just might not have the space to include. It's a kind of a visual diary, a captured mood for design lovers that perfectly aligns with our Instagram adult minds. His fourth book for Rizzoli is a double volume box set, Francois Art and Flowers, out this month. It takes this recent mood generating concept to another level. For the first volume, art Polaroids are blown up and embellished with dabs of paint and wax to create singular creations. In the other volume, Allard took advantage of a time in his life when he was confined to his home with an injury to his arm where Shooting flowers around him in his house in France was just about all he could handle. More on that later. I caught up with Francois from his home in Arles to discuss his childhood distaste of growing up in Paris. How he gained his stellar reputation shooting for magazines such as World of Interiors and Decoration Internationale. How he defines beauty and much. I know so little about your early life and tell me a little bit about where you were raised first of all, like where you were born and raised.
- [03:08]
Francois Allard
I was born and raised in Paris in a beautiful house because my parents were interior designer, fabric maker and furniture maker as well. And they lived in a very beautiful 18th century townhouse at Left bank of Paris.
- [03:25]
Dan Rubenstein
Left bank or Right Bank?
- [03:27]
Francois Allard
In Left Bank. And then I went to, you know, little school there. I went to the Licent Ricatre there. Then I was. After I moved not far from here, I went to the Ecole des Arts Decorative. Ecole national des Arts Decorative. So I was born and raised in Paris, but I never really liked it so much.
- [03:54]
Dan Rubenstein
What did you like about Paris as a child?
- [03:56]
Francois Allard
The Parisian, I guess. Okay.
- [04:01]
Dan Rubenstein
What didn't you like about the Parisian?
- [04:05]
Francois Allard
No, because I was born with a slightly speech handicap.
- [04:12]
Dan Rubenstein
Yeah, I read about that. That you had a hard time communicating as a child.
- [04:15]
Francois Allard
Yes. So basically I was born at 6 months hemiplegic. So I had some, some sequel after. And it really. I was hardly was able to talk normally or to pronounce normally. I was stuttering a lot and. And kids at school were making fun of me. Fun of me? Yeah, actually, as you would say so. And I think that's why I developed on a very early age passion for visual and beauty. That was really who helped me to carry my life actually. You know, I was very reclusive, but I was dreaming on the magazine of my parents, you know.
- [05:11]
Dan Rubenstein
What magazines did they read?
- [05:13]
Francois Allard
They did read. They did read French Elle, they did read Habitat, they did read Domus. My mother was working at one point for Lee, you know, the very famous French Beauty. I mean not Beauty, but art magazine. So basically that's what make me happy, you know. And also the power of the book. Because I did spend a lot of time in the library by myself looking at books about art houses, you know, about. I don't know. I do remember looking at the Ketsura, you know, like book on Japan, you know, the famous Kyoto temple. I mean not temple palace and I don't know. And those make me escape in a way.
- [06:12]
Dan Rubenstein
And your parents, they worked in design, but what was their taste like? Was it very traditional or no, no.
- [06:19]
Francois Allard
They had a very particular taste, actually. They were I think, basically the first one to really mix something very traditional in terms of, you know, so far upholstery with something like Italian design. So they used to sell modern Italian design like Artemide or Superstudio or, you know, all those very highly iconic Italian design from the 70s. And they always mixed with traditional, with old fabrics and everything. So they could have very classic upholstery sofa mixed with etore soza slam from, you know, alkemia or, you know, like something like that.
- [07:26]
Dan Rubenstein
They sound very cool. Were they cool? Were your parents cool?
- [07:29]
Francois Allard
Cool. Cool in terms of design, let's put it this way. But you know, at the end they never understood why I wanted really to, you know, move to New York and have another life and then do things on my own, you know.
- [07:51]
Dan Rubenstein
And so what did you study at the Beaux Arts School?
- [07:54]
Francois Allard
At the Ecole national des Arts Decoratives. I was. Since I wanted. Yeah, since I wanted to be early on a photographer. Because since they had a beautiful house, there were many photographers coming at home to make some pictures for magazine. A lot of them, you know, from range from, I don't know, Karen Radcliff for Vogue, American Vogue. I remember quite vividly. I mean, I must have been 12 or 13 or something like that. Or I remember Helmut Newton coming to the house.
- [08:33]
Dan Rubenstein
Oh, wow, okay.
- [08:34]
Francois Allard
Oh, I remember. And I usually when they were photographer coming at home, I used to escape school and watch them working. You know, for me was very interesting to see the process because I already like the magazine, the photos. But I think it was another chance to be able to have a look on how it is make, you know, it is made. So yeah, so I developed a sense of an understanding how a little camera box, you know, photographic tool could be at the same time, at the same moment a protection because you are behind kind of the thing. And to also understand the power that you might be in if you engage with what is in front of you. So at the same time, protection, but evasion in another sense. And yeah, so I wandered very early on. And what I did, it's doing school vacation instead of going on vacation. Actually. I used to internal since I'm maybe 15 during summer, you know, with photographer to learn because I really to know what was going on. So when actually when I. So I did that in Germany with a very famous fashion photographer at the time called FC Guntlach, you know, and I did it in France. So I did it in number of occasion.
- [10:37]
Dan Rubenstein
And your parents let you do this when you were like 16 or 17.
- [10:40]
Francois Allard
Yeah, yeah.
- [10:42]
Dan Rubenstein
Were they happy to get rid of you or.
- [10:44]
Francois Allard
No, they were like old school. That basically is better to work than going on vacation.
- [10:51]
Dan Rubenstein
Okay, okay, so these were paid internships. You were paid assistant.
- [10:56]
Francois Allard
Paid assistant. Maybe I was getting, I don't know, 200, not even hundred dollars for like a month, you know, so that was a kind of, you know.
- [11:06]
Dan Rubenstein
Okay, so they did support you in a sense.
- [11:08]
Francois Allard
Yes, but it was more slavery than. I mean, it was old school assistant, you know, like you have to clean the floor, you have to do this, you have to whatever. But I didn't mind. I didn't mind. So when actually I went to the school of art decorative, you know, I was the youngest student before the. Actually before the baccalaureate. And so I was like 17 and so I learned. I did basically film, you know, film and graphics, you know, I did a new photography because I had a deal with a teacher of the photography class and what he did is if you don't come to my class, I give you a plus, please don't show up.
- [12:10]
Dan Rubenstein
Why? Why did he say that?
- [12:12]
Francois Allard
Because I guess so, you know, I was more technique, you know, like so I knew already what I wanted to do. I. I knew. Or to print. I knew. Or to, you know, so I had already my. Basically not my vision, but what I was photographing then and what I'm photographing now, it's actually almost the same, you know, so I didn't really change the way I look at things. You know, it's a mix of curiosity with techniques, you know, so just to be able to, to explore what I really have in my mind.
- [12:53]
Dan Rubenstein
And so you went to school and then you studied, and you studied film and graphic design, even though you were probably a little bit farther along than most students because you had so much experience at that time.
- [13:03]
Francois Allard
And I left.
- [13:04]
Dan Rubenstein
And then you left. Did you graduate?
- [13:06]
Francois Allard
No.
- [13:07]
Dan Rubenstein
Okay, you left, I left. Yeah. I had a similar experience where I graduated early and then just immediately started working. But you left even earlier probably. And I think you started working right away at a magazine. Is that true?
- [13:23]
Francois Allard
Yes, exactly. Because I had a friend of my parents and friend of mine was a very important editor called Marie Paul Pelet. And she was starting at the time, she was starting a new magazine called Decoration International. And she says, you know, I mean I'm launching a new magazine and I need. No, no, first I did a portfolio of my parents furniture and it was exhibit in a show and she came in and said, oh, Michelle was my mother name. Oh, who did those pictures. And she said, oh, okay, Francois, it's my son. And she said, okay, can you have him calling me tomorrow and show me his portfolio? I said, yes. So, so, so I went and maybe six months later she said to me, okay, I'm doing the COVID for Maison Marie Clair and you will be the photographer.
- [14:35]
Dan Rubenstein
Oh, okay.
- [14:36]
Francois Allard
So you know, basically my first job was actually doing the COVID of Maison Marie Claire at 18. So in the same time she was launching a new magazine.
- [14:49]
Dan Rubenstein
Okay, so she was doing double duty, basically.
- [14:51]
Francois Allard
Yeah, double duty. And she says, okay, I'm launching that, you know, new magazine with another director called Fred Ravilleire, with a Swiss art director. And with Fred, for example, Fred was the art director of Hermes magazine, but also was the art director of Decoration International. So basically from, you know, from overnight I was the assistant or director, you know, like doing the layout, helping, you know, not, I mean he was doing that, but you know, doing all the techniques and as well being the photo editor of the magazine and be the staff photographer.
- [15:42]
Dan Rubenstein
And how old were you?
- [15:44]
Francois Allard
I don't know, maybe I don't. 82, 81. 81. I'm born 61. 20.
- [15:52]
Dan Rubenstein
So you were at 20, you were already kind of working on staff at a, at a magazine that is now quite, you know, legendary for its influence. Can you explain to people, obviously the magazine is not around anymore. Can you explain what the magazine looked like and why it was so influential at its time?
- [16:12]
Francois Allard
Because it was a very high level magazine, but in a very. Marie Pole had a very pay a lot of importance of the visual. So you had to be, you had to produce also interesting images of interesting places without being too commercial and especially without being too documentary. So it was more. And I think there is not really interiors magazine like that because they're much more conventional even 20, 30 years later. It was a lot about freedom, you know, I mean, just send me over, no stylist, no assistant, camera, couple of film and that's it. And you were free to do whatever you wanted. So it was a sign also, which doesn't exist too much at the moment, which was a sense of freedom to approach a subject, to do, you know, if you wanted to do a close up, if you wanted to do a big room, if you wanted to do. Always to find a solution visually, you.
- [17:40]
Dan Rubenstein
Know, and obviously like Conde Nast was a big part of your career. And I think you were after. After, after.
- [17:47]
Francois Allard
Correct. Because after working for, for Maripo and I received a call from, from Alex.
- [17:59]
Dan Rubenstein
Alex Lieberman, who was the legendary sort of Art director, slash editorial director of all the Condenas. Yes.
- [18:07]
Francois Allard
Was a grandmaster of that generation, visually, with Brodovich for Bazaar and Alex for Condens.
- [18:18]
Dan Rubenstein
And.
- [18:21]
Francois Allard
You know, at the time, they used to be answering machine. I don't know if you remember.
- [18:28]
Dan Rubenstein
I am, I am old enough to remember an answering machine, unfortunately, yes.
- [18:32]
Francois Allard
And then what happened? One day I was in the street and I, my, you know, you remember when you could listen to your answering machine from, from, you know, a phone booth, you know, in the street or something like that. And I received a phone call. Oh, can you call back Mr. Liberman in New York? Okay, okay, fine. Why not? Okay. So I called him back and he said, okay, Francois, two things, you know, first, are you interested by doing a story for Couture, for American Vogue?
- [19:16]
Dan Rubenstein
Okay. And I bet the answer was yes, correct?
- [19:19]
Francois Allard
No, the answer was no.
- [19:20]
Dan Rubenstein
Oh, you weren't interested?
- [19:22]
Francois Allard
No, I was busy at the time. I said, oh, I would love, but you know, I cannot do it on those dates. And it was very, you know, in French. Oh, Monsieur Francois, maybe you should have, you know, look around or ask around, but usually when Monsieur Le Berman call you, nobody is unaware. Okay, Call me back in a few days.
- [19:58]
Dan Rubenstein
Wow, okay. That's the confidence that people don't regularly have anymore in the industry. I don't think well.
- [20:06]
Francois Allard
And I say, okay, fine. So, you know, of course I realize who Alex was. And at the same time he said to me, by the way, I'm launching gq. New gq, new version of House and Garden.
- [20:28]
Dan Rubenstein
Okay. My alma mater.
- [20:29]
Francois Allard
Okay, yes. And the new version of Vanity Fair. Launching Vanity Fair. Are you interested by working for us in New York? And I say, you know what? I take the plane tomorrow, so take the plane, come to New York the day after.
- [20:51]
Dan Rubenstein
Wow, okay.
- [20:54]
Francois Allard
You know, and he said to me, okay, Francois, you know, are you interested by working exclusively for U.S. content Arts? And I said, yes. You know, I was. I remembering that at the time I was not even speaking English because I did Latin and German at school. So. But really I didn't care. So here I am. And from Chambre de Beaune on the sixth floor, woke up with a toilet on the corridor. I went to New York and had another, you know, had the Condenat's life, you know.
- [21:34]
Dan Rubenstein
And did you wind up working with Alex Lieberman directly?
- [21:37]
Francois Allard
Yes, it was fantastic working with him directly.
- [21:39]
Dan Rubenstein
What was he like? Cause obviously he's a name that I've heard throughout my career and he's a legend. But, you know, what was he like as a person?
- [21:47]
Francois Allard
A Gentleman. A gentleman. He was really nourished. And I think he did like to be surrounded by French photographer because he was a great art director in Paris in the 40s before the start, engaged. And he had to leave for America because he was Jewish. So basically that was a moment where. And I think he gave me really a confidence that I've stayed all my life.
- [22:31]
Dan Rubenstein
Really? How so?
- [22:34]
Francois Allard
Because anytime you had a question, he said, you can call me anytime, in the middle of the shoot, anywhere, call me, and I will get back to you in the next couple of hours. Which I think is a very rare relationship that people have now with, you know, art director or creative director worldwide. And at the time, I remember it was as well, Anna Wintour was the creative director of American Vogue. Grasmirabella was the editor in chief and Alex was, you know, editorial director. So it was also quite an amazing moment to be back in New York when all the creativity was really at his height.
- [23:34]
Dan Rubenstein
What year was that when you moved to New York?
- [23:38]
Francois Allard
Mid-80s.
- [23:39]
Dan Rubenstein
Okay, so that was, you know, mid-80s in New York was like a really crazy time.
- [23:44]
Francois Allard
Crazy time, yeah.
- [23:46]
Dan Rubenstein
Tell me about it. Like, what did you do on weekends? You were. You were young. How old were you at the time?
- [23:50]
Francois Allard
You were mid-20s, mid-20s, mid-26 maybe, something like that, you know.
- [23:56]
Dan Rubenstein
Yeah. So you were in your 20s in New York in 1985. Yeah, the go Go, you know, kind of a crazy time in New York, like.
- [24:05]
Francois Allard
Yes, yes.
- [24:05]
Dan Rubenstein
What did you do on weekends? What did Francois Lahr do on. On us on a Saturday night in New York?
- [24:12]
Francois Allard
No, first. One of his first job that Anna gave it to me was actually to go and photograph all the different decor of that nightclub called Aria. Aria was a very famous nightclub. Just that I was too young for Studio 54, unfortunately. But I did manage to go to area and then especially get paid for it. So it was kind of fun. That's amazing. Nobody could refuse me the entry because actually I was there to make a story. So, you know, and at the time as well, for Maripo, I did photograph Mr. Chow, who had a fantastic collection. And I was a great friend of Tina, Tina Chow, his past wife, when she, you know, she died of AIDS, you know, in the late 80s. So I could go, you know, and then, you know, I come the couple of first job, I go and I meet, you know, I go to see Michael Chow and photograph Tina, and it's okay. We're doing a party tonight and I go to the party and here I am with. I don't know With Basquiat, with Warhol, with Julian Schnabel, with years after. I went a couple of times work with him. So, you know, that was a New York Times, the New York period, you know. And I did work a lot because between Vogue and Vanity Fair, all the traveling, plus my European magazine, I was basically working every single day, you know.
- [26:02]
Dan Rubenstein
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- [27:34]
Francois Allard
Of course. Yeah.
- [27:36]
Dan Rubenstein
You do. Okay.
- [27:37]
Francois Allard
I do. And I have the archive where I have every single photograph I took since I am 16.
- [27:46]
Dan Rubenstein
Oh, wow. Okay.
- [27:47]
Francois Allard
Every holo film, every frame, every Polaroid, almost everything.
- [27:52]
Dan Rubenstein
How many, how much is that ascent? I mean, is there even a way of counting how many shoots have you counted?
- [28:01]
Francois Allard
No, by thousands. By 10 of thousands, I'm sure. And it's, you know, my. Just the room where I stock my archive. It's like maybe 80 square meter.
- [28:20]
Dan Rubenstein
Okay. Quite large.
- [28:21]
Francois Allard
Quite large with maybe 4 meter high. And it's from, you know, boxes and everything. And yeah.
- [28:32]
Dan Rubenstein
If I were to ask you, yeah. If you were in a, if you were in a university and you were teaching Photography students. And they said, okay, I enter a room with a camera and I'm about. And I need to take. I need to photograph the room. What is the Francois Allard method of approaching photographing a room?
- [28:54]
Francois Allard
Having no method. Having really no method. I'm doing it totally instantly. I never think about it before. I just arrive in the room and I start. I start doing it. I absolutely know no preconcept idea of what I'm going to do.
- [29:14]
Dan Rubenstein
You don't have a checklist or never?
- [29:17]
Francois Allard
No.
- [29:17]
Dan Rubenstein
Do you work with assistants?
- [29:19]
Francois Allard
Yeah.
- [29:20]
Dan Rubenstein
And do the. What do the assistants do before you. Before you get in, before you get into the room? I bet they have a checklist.
- [29:26]
Francois Allard
No. Do they? No. No. You know, I mean, all, you know, all my best memorial, you know, story, like, you know, like. Like sideshow Me like Horschenberg, like, you know, basically I like also working by myself, you know, I like to be alone or if. Or I like to be either alone or if I do a big campaign, you know, like for a while for like no celine, I have 30 people on board, you know, so I have really no rules. I could work with many, many, many, many people, you know. And for example, I do for the Zara home for Vincent Fond Reason collection for Zara, for example. You know, I can choose the location, I can organize the way I wanted. But since we have a lot of things to do in a very little time, you know, sometimes we are like 30 people on set or I do it by myself and the next day I could be by myself doing some pictures of an artist studio alike. So there is no, really no room I could do, you know, it's the way I feel.
- [30:42]
Dan Rubenstein
And you had a monograph with Rizzoli about 12 years ago, right? It was, I think, your first then.
- [30:48]
Francois Allard
Yeah, that was the first number one. And after I did number two, and after I did number three, the monograph.
- [30:54]
Dan Rubenstein
And things changed for you a little bit, didn't they? When those monographs came out? Because people started to recognize not the room or not the designer, but they began to recognize you a little bit as a name.
- [31:05]
Francois Allard
Exactly.
- [31:06]
Dan Rubenstein
Yes.
- [31:06]
Francois Allard
Because at the beginning I was doing more conventional, you know, like you have to do the garage, you know, something more, you know, follow the rules more a little bit.
- [31:18]
Dan Rubenstein
Right.
- [31:19]
Francois Allard
I know I want to follow my rules. So that's what I think it's quite important. So that's what I think. That's what I wanted really, to publish that, my new body of work. Because I think now it's time, you know, I did. I Think in my professional life I did many, you know, I did many pictures, many stories by the thousands. And I once still wants to continue. And I always wanted to be a painter. Actually the photography came as a happy, happy accident. Happy accident, yes. And now I am exploring new, you know, new ideas, new, new. New way of doing things. And for me, actually the turning point of that was when I sold my apartment in New York and just arrived in France for a couple of days in my house in Arles. And then the shift was Covid happened just a week after I left New York. And I realized that I was in my house and I never took enough time there because it's my studio, it's my house, it's the inspiration. So I started because I had nothing to do, I mean professionally, you know, commercially wise. I started to. To hang around the house and start to do very abstract Polaroid of the house. And then in a very. Because I had one of my assistant at the studio, she's Spanish Helene. And because of her I could find a shop in Madrid who still had some Polaroid I was looking for use and sent me overnight almost a lot of film and camera. So I was left by myself at the house with that new tool. And I started to say, why don't my house begin to be really my muse in a way, you know, transforming the way you surround yourself because it's so personal. Why not to be confident enough to understand that? Now that is maybe the main new body of my own work.
- [34:16]
Dan Rubenstein
Can I ask, what kind of Polaroid camera did you use at the time?
- [34:19]
Francois Allard
The same one I use at school in my. In my. In my early age. Exactly. Like a new version of a 670, you know, the one that kind of.
- [34:29]
Dan Rubenstein
Looks like the classic one that folds up to a little box.
- [34:34]
Francois Allard
Yes, exactly, exactly.
- [34:36]
Dan Rubenstein
I have the same one.
- [34:37]
Francois Allard
So now I have maybe 10 of them because, you know, they always broke the scene sucks anyway, so. But it's still fun. And with that I found a new liberty. You know, you can use no tripod if it's. I love when it's. The more unfocused it is, the better it is for me because people ask me to be so each time focus color. So I say at one point I felt very free and since it was just for myself, I didn't, you know, I really enjoy. And also another inspiration. And that body of work came with the side chambly Polaroid because for me, I say if I can do paintings, culture and. And photos, what, what, you know, and I highly risk you know why. Why I'm not allowed myself to do. To try, even to try, you know, so. So yeah, so that's when after the COVID scene started to get another direction, I guess.
- [35:58]
Dan Rubenstein
And tell me about this latest book, which is. Has two. Two main parts in it. Two videos, two volumes in a single book. So tell me about these two volumes and where did this particular book idea come from?
- [36:16]
Francois Allard
Because since I, you know, I collected a lot of Aloh. It came with another lockdown because I had an injury because I was working so much, so I almost lost my tendon, you know, I don't know. Tend.
- [36:37]
Dan Rubenstein
Your shoulder tended.
- [36:38]
Francois Allard
Yeah. So I couldn't hold a camera any longer for six months.
- [36:42]
Dan Rubenstein
Oh, gosh. Okay.
- [36:44]
Francois Allard
And I had four months of, you know, re education. So basically for a year and a half ago, I was out for almost half a year, you know, not be able to act commercially. So I started. And since I love flowers and I can hold. Even with the other hand, I could hold a Polaroid camera. So I started to photograph flowers and I start to do 20, 30, 40, 100, 200, 500, you know, so I started to be as a. The rhythm because basically I really cannot stop working.
- [37:34]
Dan Rubenstein
You're a workaholic.
- [37:35]
Francois Allard
Yes. So I have to find always lot of new challenge, lot of things just to make my mind and my eyes vibrate still longer. That's what if I get bored with making one kind of photography, I stop. I don't want to continue doing things I'm not really passionate about. You know, it's really. It's not a question of money. It's the question of, I think, in a way, mixed with emotion and integrity. You know, I want really to have that momentum being a moment to enjoy myself as well.
- [38:21]
Dan Rubenstein
And tell me about these flowers. Like, did you just, you know, did you buy them nearby? Did you like, what, what. How did you choose them? And like, what was your. What was that like for you?
- [38:31]
Francois Allard
Yeah, you know, I go, go, go to the florist, stand by and do. And do a bouquet and photographing at.
- [38:40]
Dan Rubenstein
House, you know, and they are like as you described before, you know, they're not perfectly in focus. Some of them have like a specific color and like a real sort of emotion to them. They're not emotion.
- [38:51]
Francois Allard
You know, sometimes it's just so close you don't realize it's a flower any longer. You know, it's like a touch of color. It's a touch of, you know, imagine like, you know, Monet doing a Polaroid of his flowers garden that was part of the. The manual body of work. So, you know, it's just to have to be free, you know, just to be free to shoot what you. And then I So I started to do a lot of pictures like that for doing six, almost eight months, you know, and re photographing also all the object of my house. That will be part of another book coming in two years. And since I could not hold the camera, so I did with the Polaroid and I did with my iPhone, you know. So for example, you know, Jorgen Taylor is doing campaign with his iPhone. Why I'm not, you know, why nobody have shot interiors with an iPhone. Why not? You know, I mean I'm always open to new, I think to new challenge. You know, nothing is set in stone, nothing. You have to invent your own rules. I think that's what I was, you know, Zasina was also famous, I don't know. But successful as an interior photographer because I had no rules to follow. I follow my own feeling. Basically. That was the rule I did follow.
- [40:30]
Dan Rubenstein
And the second part of the book is art.
- [40:33]
Francois Allard
Yes. Some of the part of the book is I've been also during the same period of time I've been re photographing my object, you know, like, you know, like this. That's a statue of mine. So I and I had a collection of chemical mistake, you know, with the Polaroid. Right.
- [41:05]
Dan Rubenstein
Leaks and things like that. Where things don't come out, the colors don't come out correctly or there's a weird blob on it or something.
- [41:12]
Francois Allard
Yes. Or like, you know, something like that. And I says what? Why not? I'm using those mistakes, you know, all those chemical intervention to be the base of a print. So I will enlarge those Polari like 1 meter 10 by 1 meter 30. So was a big piece, rather large, quite large. And use it as a canvas for my own interpretation.
- [41:52]
Dan Rubenstein
So basically you're painting on a blown up Polaroid essentially.
- [41:55]
Francois Allard
Exactly. Of pouring wax, of pouring paint, of painting on top of it erasing. So using my own work as to this not to destroy but to. You know how Drossenberg use when his first really momentum was to use a gift he got from de Kooning and then he erased everything. And that was. So he asked de Kooning the permission to erase his own work. So that's part of. It's a mix of that and also it's a mix of the freedom that Andy Warhol had with the Polaroid. So for me was a way to mix experimentation with my own photography. Like Polke. So you know, so it was a way to remix photography and intervention on my own work, you know.
- [43:10]
Dan Rubenstein
And speaking of the evolution of interiors, because you've seen the taste in interiors shift over time. I've noticed that some of the stories that you've told, you talk about this sort of from your parents house or from the home of Yves Saint Laurent or whatever. There is this like mix and this eclectic shock of things together that create something special. Do you think that that is becoming rarer over time?
- [43:40]
Francois Allard
Yes, of course.
- [43:41]
Dan Rubenstein
Compared to today. Everything is kind of because no plan.
- [43:45]
Francois Allard
So bling bling. Yeah, so bling bling. That's why in a way I rarely want to do it any longer. So when I have a new things I ask for. If it's not a friend or if it's not somebody I really highly respect in terms of design, I will not do it because it's too bling bling. This isn't my taste, you know, this is not the way I want to have my name associated with. Because no, basically it's a test of new money, you know, and it's not my taste. And if it's something I don't really appreciate, I will not photograph it.
- [44:37]
Dan Rubenstein
I mean, is there any place on earth that you haven't photographed that you think one day I'm gonna go and shoot it? A bucket list as we say.
- [44:51]
Francois Allard
Yes, few, very often people ask me that. I think it's more interesting to follow. How can I explain. To follow the profondien. To go deeper in something you already have done. No, it's time, you know. Okay, so no, for me it's time to go deeper into my own expression in terms of photography. With something, you know, the universe within. Yes, yes. Like, you know, like Dwayne Mickels always photograph his own things. Or like, you know, like it's, it's. Yeah, just to go. I've been, you know, traveling the world for many, many, many years. I was traveling more in my time, more than a flight attendant. I had few million miles.
- [46:00]
Dan Rubenstein
Wow. Okay.
- [46:04]
Francois Allard
So now I will only travel for something very precise or being at home either in Arles or in Greece to focus on what I really want to photograph or re. Photograph or rethinking about my, my, my environment, you know, so that's, that's why it's important.
- [46:26]
Dan Rubenstein
And because so much of your work is about beauty. How do you define beauty?
- [46:32]
Francois Allard
Something who save your life. Something like nourish your soul. Yeah. And, and, and, and get inspired by, you know, that I think that the rest I really don't care, so that's really what I'm aiming for.
- [47:00]
Dan Rubenstein
Thank you to my guest Francois Allard, as well as to everyone at Rizzoli for making this episode happen. The editor of the Grand Tourist is Stan Hall. To keep this going, don't forget to visit our website and sign up for our newsletter, the Grand Tourist Curator at thegrandtourist and follow me on Instagram danrubenstein. Don't forget you can purchase the first ever print issue of the Grand Tourist online now on our website. Just a few copies left. And follow the Grand Tourist on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen. And leave us a rating or comment. Every little bit helps. Till next time.