← The Grand Tourist with Dan Rubinstein
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- [00:00]
Frida Escobedo
In architecture, things are changing. People are coming from a world where it was calling the most specialized architect to do specific things. And I've seen a shift because when someone is highly specialized in something, he or she might not hear the same things as someone who's doing it for the first time or with fresh eyes. And hopefully that's what I'm doing. Like I'm a good listener and I'm just finding a new way of telling the story.
- [00:28]
Dan Rubenstein
Hi, I'm Dan Rubenstein and this is the Grand Tourist. I've been a design journalist for more than 20 years and this is my personalized guided tour through the worlds of fashion, art, architecture, food and travel. All the elements of a well lived life. Architecture is a tough profession, especially if you're a woman, and even more so if you're not based in New York, Paris, London and all the usual places. My guest today is, in my opinion, a once in a generation breakthrough success who brings a soft touch, a sense of humanity and elegance to a job that's often surrounded by sharp. Elder Frida Escobedo, the architect has been a central figure to the renaissance of the design scene in her native Mexico City, bringing a unique 21st century sense of modernism to her work, with a keen eye on materiality that's so intrinsic to the design culture there. For such a successful name that's been constantly bandied about for years, she's barely 45, which is a baby in architectural terms. That's probably due in part to her training in Mexico and and Harvard and the fact that she struck out on her own almost from the beginning of her career. She's created hotels, cultural centers, boutiques for the likes of Aesop, installations at places like London's V and A Museum, and had a global breakthrough moment in 2018 with the pavilion at London's Serpentine Gallery. If she was sought after before, she's about to soar to new heights with her commission to design the Metropolitan Museum of Art's new $500 million Modern and Contemporary art wing in New York. That project will take a few years to complet, but in the meantime, Frida is completing another first, her residential condo in Brooklyn called the Bergen. With its undulating facade of custom tan colored brick elements, and with interiors by the award winning firm Workstead, it's sure to be another milestone of architecturally driven mega projects in the Borough. I caught up with Frida from her studio in Mexico City to discuss her earliest memories, why she feels kindness is key to architecture, her plans for the future, how she's bracing to deal with all of the critics when her job at the Met Museum is done and what key lessons she teaches her design students today.
- [02:39]
Jackson Crook
Like, with most of my guests, you know, start at the beginning. I know you were raised in Mexico City. Was that correct?
- [02:44]
Frida Escobedo
That's right.
- [02:45]
Jackson Crook
I mean, the 80s were a really tough time for Mexico, you know, economically. And it was time of searching, crime and, know, kidnappings. That was sort of the peak, I believe, of a lot of that. Like, what do you remember from the environment of, like, Mexico City and Mexico in general? You know, as a young woman or as a child, like, what was that kind of universe like compared to today?
- [03:12]
Frida Escobedo
What I remember the Most was the 85 earthquake. I was only 5, so. But I still remember it very clearly. It was the first time that I experienced an earthquake and then the effect on the city. I think that had a huge impact on me because for many, many years after, you could still see some of the scars that were left in the city. You could see torn out buildings that were not renovated or renewed in 10 years or 15 years. And there were areas of the city that were a little bit more rundown, that used to be really magical places like Roma. And after many years, it has slowly been transformed into a lively neighborhood again. But there were areas and patches of the city that were really ruins. I remember that. But it was also a very fun place to live in. You know, like, Mexico City is always very lively. There's a lot of activity in the street. Everything happens in the public realm. You have a lot of food and energy. And I just remember, like, going, because my cousins lived in another part of the city, just driving with my dad and just being able to see, like, all these differences. No. So you could go to the south of the city, and it was volcanic rock, and I would climb these rocks with my cousins. And then I could go back downtown where there are, like, limited park areas, nowhere I used to live. So it was being able to have those two worlds.
- [04:45]
Jackson Crook
That's amazing. And so before you studied at Harvard later on in your life, but you studied in Mexico City first and studied architecture. Can you tell me about, like, what your school was like, you know, for undergrad and like, what kind of from an architecture point of view, like, what were they teaching you? Like, what was the sort of popular worldview that was being kind of drilled into your head as a young student?
- [05:13]
Frida Escobedo
I think it was very focused and in preparing professionals because that's what most careers do here in Mexico City. You have a limited amount of time to Study. And we have a different system than in the U.S. no, we don't have that major in mind. Minor thing. It's. You just go right into what you want to do and as soon as you graduate, you're licensed to practice. So it was perhaps a little bit more business oriented that I was hoping for. They would prepare you for life, for becoming someone who would either work in a studio or own a studio. And I kind of missed a little bit more of like the conceptual background or the historical background of architecture, the social aspect of it. It was more about like how to produce floor plans. Very good architecture studios. I had great teachers that it was more about sharing the craft and being able to share everything that you've learned from your professional experience. But very few conversations about philosophical questions. Just like in general, what is the impact of architecture? I had one professor that did that and I took his class almost at the end of the career, like at the end of the degree. And it had a huge impact because this was the first time when someone was really explaining me why things were built in a specific way. And it was not just because of economic and financial reasons, but it was also about the spirit of a place. And I still thank him for that because I think that kind of shifted something.
- [06:56]
Jackson Crook
And, you know, what made you want to go study architecture to begin with?
- [07:00]
Frida Escobedo
I wanted to do something with my hands. I always liked to draw or build little things or, you know, like crafts. I was really attracted to the idea of making and I was leaning towards arts or design, but I think I was a little bit afraid of becoming an artist. No, as I was saying, I'm very shy. And just thinking about presenting your emotions in any kind of way was very intimidating. So design and architecture felt like a safer place for creativity. And in reality, like, it was just a coincidence. I just thought architecture would provide, like a broader spectrum of possibilities. And that's why I applied to architecture school. But I wasn't really sure. And my, my mother was always very supportive. Like, just choose whatever you want. If you don't like it. It always helps to have passed through some experience of knowledge, of knowing something in a different way. And I was lucky. Like, there was something that aligned and I really loved architecture school from the first moment. So I just stayed there.
- [08:10]
Jackson Crook
And, you know, you're speaking about the differences between architecture studies in the U.S. i mean, not only was it not not very theoretical, but also when you got out of school, you started working for yourself almost right away, which, you know, in New York there are people who you know, where they work until their entire career and never, never leave a firm and. Or they toil for years and doing CAD drawings of air vents or whatever. What were those? I think it was seven years, right, that you worked for yourself and you're working with your partner at the time, I think. Tell me about that. Like, what was the, what was that, that those first years, like, Yes, I.
- [08:51]
Frida Escobedo
Think I was trying to find these little wedge where I could fit in because of course I wanted to practice as an architect, but I was a little bit doubtful about like what the whole system was like. Do you, do you really want to work in this huge studio? That was the goal for many of my colleagues at the time. It's like, let's go to the biggest firm because this is where you need to be and this is where you're going to do great. And for me, it was like, I just want to do some very experimental stuff and even if it's from like a very small scale. And I was lucky enough to be working with my partner at the time, Alejandro Larkon, who had a similar kind of thinking. Like we were just two kids trying to have a lot of fun. And we started applying to grants. And then his mother asked to do a renovation in his house. And we convinced her of doing way more than she needed to do, actually. But we were just like so eager and so much wanting to do our own thing that we convince people. And that's like a very nice feeling that you can really not get away with what you want, but to find what people really desire. And then a friend of ours asked us to do his house. And to me that was like the first actual project. And after a while we split. Each one of us followed our own careers. And then another friend of mine who was really influential, Jose Rojas, invited me to do a hotel. I started working with Jose Rojas in this hotel, Hotel Bocachica in Acapulco. And he was also a non typical architecture student. He actually is not practicing as an architect anymore. He owns a gallery here in Mexico City. And I think that was the first time that he was looking at doing some other things. So he was always showing me new artists or designers that I didn't know of. He was always looking at how people crafted things and changing them locally. And it was really delightful just to work with him because he was such a big inspiration. And then I started working on my.
- [11:12]
Jackson Crook
Own with the Hotel Boca Chica. When you, when you look back on it today, like what sort of signatures you know, carry through that you think it's like, oh, that's definitely mine.
- [11:24]
Frida Escobedo
Yes, of course. The project was about renovating a 50s hotel in Old Acapulco. So it was a very rundown area of the city, actually, where it started in Caleta and Caletilla. So this was the starting point of the golden era of Acapulco. But of course, it declined and the crime rates went up, and it became a kind of dangerous place to be. So when we decided to come back, it was trying to bring that glamour of the old Acapulco, but also recognizing that the layers of history that had happened afterwards were also very valuable. So their interpretation of modernism with these crazy colors and these adaptations that happened in the 60s and in the 70s and even the 80s were also part of the story of Acapulco. So we tried to pull them in and also reinterpreting some of the classic furniture of very iconic designers like Jean Prouve. How can we bring that into the narrative of this hotel that has nothing to do with Europe, but could have a lot of fun, but just mixing it and interpreting and making something that is fresh. And it was a very successful hotel for many years. Now it's closed. But to me, the important thing was just like, to start looking in different places. That's what I learned working with Jose. And I loved just going out and seeing little details, and there you could read a complete new story of how the city was constructed.
- [13:07]
Jackson Crook
And after that period of seven years, you decided to. To go to Harvard for a program called Design in the Public Domain. And that, my. That must have been a shot of theory for you. And what's the word I'm looking for, like, higher values, like, sort of, like a higher level of thinking of, like, architecture and society. And so why did you. Why Harvard? And why did you decide to, you know, you were having. You had a successful practice, you were doing hotels, like, why then go to. Why leave the country, go to Harvard and get this sort of theoretical degree.
- [13:44]
Frida Escobedo
It sounds like I was being a very successful architect, but actually we were doing things, like, on a very small scale. We were working from Jose's home. And when I was practicing on my own, I was working on my own kitchen. Kitchen counter. So it was tough. It was tough for many years. And I started to realize that I had two paths. I would stick to what I was doing, which I loved, which was something that had to do with my own curiosities and how to develop this idea that architecture was a language that would allow me to see the world in A different way, or I could make some profit and just work for a larger studio. And I didn't want to do that. So I just thought, like, well, I need to figure this out because it's not working for me financially. Maybe this is not what I want to do. And then this program just appeared. I was thinking, like, maybe I need to go into the arts or just design or something that is not attached to these financial constraints. And this program appeared. I was constantly checking the new programs, and I also applied to the Royal College of Arts to similar program, but the one at the GSD resonated to me more because it was a multidisciplinary approach. You know, like, people from all backgrounds were allowed into the course. And to me it was like, well, maybe this is the way about thinking about my career again. And, well, here I am, I'm still a practicing architect.
- [15:25]
Jackson Crook
And what was it like, sort of landing in Harvard? Do you ever done a lot of, you know, have you traveled, you know, in the States previously a lot, or.
- [15:34]
Frida Escobedo
What was that like? I used to travel, yes. I. I think I got that from my mom. She always liked to travel, and I was always very curious. So I wanted to live outside of Mexico City. But I was also looking at an institution that had the resources for me to explore things. So that's probably one of the reasons why I applied to Harvard and the Royal College of Arts. And I just wanted to be able to do my own independent studies program, and that provided that possibility. But, yeah, it was the first time that I was living out of Mexico.
- [16:17]
Jackson Crook
And once that program at Harvard was completed, a what did you feel like you took away from it? Like, what kind of person emerged from the program that was maybe different?
- [16:30]
Frida Escobedo
Yeah, I think a more confused architect emerged, but that was. That was a good thing. I started thinking that there was a possibility of doing other things that were more related to art or to expressing my own ideas or feelings or intuitions about myself or the people around me or the space around me that I thought of. And that was very liberating because then I was not attached to just making more traditional types of architecture. And also that gave me the possibility of acknowledging that I could do many other things. I could write, I could do an installation, and it was equally as valuable for me as doing something that involved a larger scale of a project.
- [17:24]
Jackson Crook
Did you ever think about staying in the States afterwards, or you definitely wanted to return to Mexico?
- [17:30]
Frida Escobedo
Not really. I always wanted to return to Mexico.
- [17:32]
Jackson Crook
And what did. What did your peers think when you came back like that you were, you know, what was your. Your world like? Did you. Did you have a sort of, you know, like they said, like a reverse culture shock when you kind of come back to your own culture and you kind of. You're kind of jolted a little bit because you've been immersed outside for so long? Did you have anything like that?
- [17:52]
Frida Escobedo
No. I actually started to value many other things. I miss them. But actually, I was never separated from the context of working in Mexico, because at the same time that I applied to my master's degree, I did a competition for the first public building that I did, La Tayera. So I finished the project, I started school. And in Mexico, usually public buildings either start right away or they are put on hold until something happens. And that can take years. So I was expecting for the construction not to start until I finished my master's, but it didn't happen that way. It started one year into my program. So I had to fly back and forth almost every month to check the construction site. And that kind of kept me grounded because there was, like, these higher thinking happening in school, like all these theoretic conversations and philosophical questions. But at the same time, I had to deal with a budget, a very restrained budget to do this public building. And I had to deal with, I don't know, the plumber, to resolve some issues. So I think that's when it clicked. It was because I had these two worlds that I was able to find my middle happy ground.
- [19:21]
Jackson Crook
And tell me about La Tayra. It's a gallery, but it's also public. Tell me a little bit about how that works, what it is.
- [19:27]
Frida Escobedo
It used to be the home and studio for David Alfaro Siqueiros Mexican muralist. And when he passed away, gave this atelier and home to the state of Cornabaca for it to turn into a public cultural building. And it was active, but with a very light program. There were people coming in, but it was really not too strong. And then decided to renovate the whole space to provide more opportunities for more formal artists to participate in exhibitions and to also do artistic residencies. And just the general public to be able to engage with the archive and collection of David Alfaro Siqueiro. So the whole collection that was here in Mexico City was to move to Cuernavaca, and they organized the competition. I think it was like five young offices that were participating at the time. And I did a proposal from my kitchen counter, and I received the project. And what was important was the relationship between the street and the plaza. That is adjacent to it, and two very monumental murals that are facing the plaza. So the whole thing was about reorganizing the space, allowing for these new programs to come in, but to have the art that was already in the space to be the main protagonist and also to allow for other exhibitions to happen.
- [21:05]
Dan Rubenstein
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- [22:47]
Jackson Crook
And how is your practice set up today? How do you, how do you tell me a little about, you know, where you're, how you're set up with your team and also if you met someone at a proposal where you have to demonstrate, talk about your firm as you're, you know, pitching for a job. Like, how do you describe who you are and sort of like what you do?
- [23:06]
Frida Escobedo
Well, the practice slowly grew from being one person to two to three. And then it gets really exciting when you start having a team of five people. It starts feeling like you have an extension of your family because then the conversations become a little bit more rich and a little bit more Horizontal. When it's one to one, it becomes a little bit of a different dynamic. And we started doing small projects, many of them art installations or projects that had to do with biennales, architecture biennales. So I was still questioning many of the ideas of the public realm and space. And I met very interesting people around that time that had become very important friends. And then it started to grow into some other projects like hotels or social housing projects. And then, I don't know, like seven years happened and we moved studios. We started working on projects in the us Small projects again, exhibition design, some other installations. And then in the last few years, things really changed. I started doing a residential project in New York in 2020, but that's when the pandemic hit. So the plans of maybe traveling a little bit more often to New York, maybe thinking about setting up a studio there, were kind of put on hold because of the pandemic. And by the time we emerged from the pandemic from working remotely, we were twice as big. So we had to rent another studio here in Mexico, join them. This is where we are right now. And then we realized that we were getting more requests from abroad. A hotel in Amsterdam, another residential project in New York. And then we got the invitation to do the competition for the Met. And that's when things started to really move faster to open the studio.
- [25:15]
Jackson Crook
New York before you, you know, when you talk, when you're, you know, you mentioned the Met commission, but before that, in 2018, the Serpentine Pavilion was a major moment for you. Tell people what kind of, you know, it's a. It, it's a gallery in a public space in a park in London. And there's usually, there are these pavilions designed by architects and sometimes by artists that are. That are somewhat temporary and they're quite monumental and experiential. Tell us about what it was like to walk into your Serpentine Pavilion and what that was like.
- [25:51]
Frida Escobedo
It was a major moment, of course, because I was the youngest at the time to do the Serpentine Pavilion. When I received the intimidation. The intimidation. When I received the invitation, it was quite intimidating because all of these major figures that I respected a lot had already done a pavilion. And everything that I was thinking of was like, that has been done, and it has been done beautifully by this and this and that. And then we had to really review. It's almost like an introspective exercise or just thinking, what do I want to say? But also what do I want to question? And that's when it starts making sense. And to Me, it was this idea of this pavilion being temporary and site specific, but then it's acquired by an institution or a private collector or someone else, and it moves somewhere else. So it was almost like designing for a place that you didn't know. It broke the rules for this idea that architecture is site specific and permanent. This was none of the two. It was like, how can we link it, then, to time and space, to these very precise moment of the Kensington Gardens in 2018 with all of these ideas. And the way to anchor it was to think about other ways that humankind has grasped this idea of time and place in a more abstract way. Because actually, it's just an idea of how we grasp and relate to each other in terms of space and time. So we anchored it by aligning it to the Grinch Schmerinia Line, which is located very close to where the Serpentine Galleries is. So there was this moment where it became almost like a sundial or a compass, where you could feel that you were in that space, in that moment, and it was going to be unique and fleeting. But then when it moved to another location, of course, it would remind of that first experience. So it was almost like spiraling up, creating memories on the same principle. And what was really nice as the first time, I was coming in and one of the photographers approached me and said, like, hey, so what is the money shot? You need to tell me what's a money shot so I can take it and we can publish it. And I was so glad to not have one precise moment where it was like, this is the angle that you need to take, because it was more about how you would move around the space or how you would sit in the space and just see things happening around you, rather than you happening outside of the space or inside the space.
- [28:45]
Jackson Crook
And I'm also curious to learn a little bit about your ongoing relationship with Aesop, because you've designed many of their boutique around the world, and they're so known for their experimental and very sort of serene and thoughtful approach to retail in a way that no one else has really been doing for quite some time. Of course, people have copied them now, but they were kind of the first. And tell me about that relationship, how that started. And how many of these boutiques have you done? And. And how's that going?
- [29:18]
Frida Escobedo
Yes, that's a very good point that I forgot about. But, yes, those were some of the first experiences outside of Mexico City. Those and the exhibition designs and these interventions with Biennales that I was just talking about. But it was something that was almost in between. It was retail, but because the product is so particular and so well defined, what they wanted to do at the time was to create a very different environment for each one of the shops and something that tied with the surrounding neighborhood. So it was almost like it required to do a little bit of analysis. But it was not just like a typological analysis. It was like, what is the spirit of this place? And then it was more like stage design, which was really interesting for me. And we worked with them for maybe seven years. And during that period, we did five stores. One of them in Miami, a temporary one in New York, then the Park Slope one, another one in Miami and Tampa. So it was a very nice relationship because we had creative freedom. And it was also a way of getting to know these new neighborhoods and how they were changing, and also doing experiments with materials and finishes and just creating these little environments that would connect to the neighborhood.
- [30:56]
Jackson Crook
And, you know, as someone who's navigated a very successful career at a young age for an architect, if you don't mind me saying, I was curious to see something that you. You had mentioned to our friends at Madame Architect in an interview where you said that kindness is a very surprising tool. And I was wondering if you could explain what you meant by that.
- [31:21]
Frida Escobedo
I had forgotten about that interview, but it's true. I mean, I'm in a very male dominated industry still. Even though things are changing, I don't think it's a complete change. And when I started practicing, I encountered a lot of resistance because I was very young, I was working on my own, and I was a female. So it was like, you have no idea what you're doing and you need to prove yourself all the time. And I noticed that some of my colleagues, usually my male colleagues, had this like, very strong attitude. Not like they had to have a presence that was very solid, that was almost like invincible. And to me, it's like it's not who I am. I cannot be like this tough woman all the time. I need to be what I am, and I want to be kind to people and just listen to them and just make them understand that I have something that I can put in the table that might be valuable for them. And in many cases, it worked. So I was glad to see that just the idea of making someone feel heard was almost equally as important as making your voice be heard. That was another way of introducing yourself into the conversation.
- [32:51]
Dan Rubenstein
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- [34:18]
Jackson Crook
And when it if I were to ask you from a 30,000 foot view a more open ended question. But if I asked you what kind of architect is Frida Escobedo?
- [34:30]
Frida Escobedo
I don't know. It's so hard to define oneself. Hopefully, I mean from 30 million miles. I hope people think that I'm a curious architect and from inside my studio I hope that I'm a good leader for my team and that they can feel that they have creative freedom and they can flourish in the studio.
- [35:00]
Jackson Crook
And how does this curiosity that you've spoken about a few times, how does that sort of translate into, let's say, your first condo project in New York, Bergen, which is coming up, which of course I'd love to talk to you about. How does that curiosity find its way into this enormous residential complex in Brooklyn and New York?
- [35:24]
Frida Escobedo
It comes with complexities because of course there's a little bit of resistance because when you start seeing things in a curious manner, you want to experiment and explore. So you're not just going to repeat what is the right way to do things. You're just going to try to find your own path. And to me it was about integrating the idea of having a community, but also that there was a community that was already existing. And of course coming from a Mexican background, that had to do with interaction and interweaving and this idea of contact, whether it's visual or physical. And that was something that was very different in the neighborhood and the developments that were happening. It was more like beautiful buildings that had a world on its own. But there was little friction with the street or with the neighborhood. And I wanted to create a little bit of that.
- [36:21]
Jackson Crook
And there's a. You know, they're doing anything real estate related in New York, especially on a large scale, is quite difficult. And there's a lot of code, and there's a lot of restrictions and a lot of fingers in the pot. Tell me a little about what you feel like you brought to the project that maybe only you could do.
- [36:44]
Frida Escobedo
I think I was asking a lot of questions at the time. I was asking a lot of questions because I was curious, where does this code come from? Is it really necessary? Is there a way to interpret it? And, of course, I wasn't trying to break the rules, but just thinking, like, let's not make it the obvious way, because it might be the safest option, but it might not be the best option for this project. And usually there are, like, parallel answers that are not breaking the rules, but are finding a different way. It becomes a slower path. No, it creates some frustration for some people, but in the end, I think it's great because then you have something that is really different and that has a spirit of its own.
- [37:32]
Jackson Crook
And tell me about the materiality of the facade of Bergen, because I know it's quite unique, but for a project like this in New York, but also seems, forgive me if I'm wrong, but seems to be kind of like, also part of a signature of yours, this kind of material. So tell me about that, what you chose and why.
- [37:53]
Frida Escobedo
Yeah, we chose brick for the facade. And at the beginning, it was like white brick. We could do all of these experiments with beautiful materials. There was, I imagine, a little bit of resistance because of some of the precedents in New York that have a negative connotation that are made out of brick. But at the same time, it is a neighborhood where that type of modulation and detailing is very important because it's creating a specific rhythm in the street. And it kind of aligned also to my personal interest in modular systems that, rearranged in more complex ways, can create an infinite amount of arrangements. So the brick has been a creative tool for me to experiment in many different aspects. And the idea of it shifting direction, creating shadows or open corners or little windows that you can peek through. It's just really interesting to see how an industrial module can create all of these possibilities? No, in a very simple way. So that's why we try to introduce it.
- [39:12]
Jackson Crook
And how would you say you're. The architecture of Bergen has kind of will influence how people will live there and what their sort of day to day experience will be.
- [39:23]
Frida Escobedo
Well, the idea was to. It's a relatively large housing project, residential project. So the first thing was let's divide it into smaller spaces and create a contrast. So with the dxa, they already had provided a master plan of a zigzagging facade that made a lot of sense because it was kind of modulating the rhythm. And we just echoed that gesture of positive and negative using this smaller brick, creating a screen that would allow for some views, but then some opacity depending on which side of the street you were coming from. And what that felt for me was the opportunity for people to be connected to the street, but also to have little corners where they felt they had a lot of privacy. So intimate spaces, collective spaces, and then their relationship to the public areas of the building and finally to the street were modulated in a gradient that was just regulated by the use of a single module.
- [40:29]
Jackson Crook
And you know, putting Bergen aside for a second and without going into any specifics, as I'm sure you have, a lot of, you're buried under a mountain of NDAs. How are you feeling about the Met coming up and your impending deadline?
- [40:48]
Frida Escobedo
It's another big surprise. And I have to say, every time I have an interview or a conversation with people who are asking me about my job, I see these constellation of projects. No. Going from Pavilion very early on to the Serpentine Pavilion to the first project in New York and then getting this one. It feels equally as exciting, but amplified. I never imagined that I was going to be doing a project in such an iconic building. This is the dream of an architect. It's a huge responsibility, but also it's really fascinating to be able to interact with an institution that is a city on its own. Like, it has all of these layers and yeah, it's just like diving into a new world completely.
- [41:44]
Jackson Crook
No matter what you do with the Met, the critics are going to come out from and, and from every angle. You know, it's a little bit like touching the Met is a little bit like, I don't know, like a Catholic redesigning the Vatican. Like, it's really just. It's up there. So how do you deal with criticism yourself in your entire career?
- [42:09]
Frida Escobedo
Well, I think I. That's the story of my career because I was always working on my Own. So I never was under the wing of anyone telling me, like, this is the right thing to do. Just do it. I've always had questions, and I think when you have questions is that you have fear. And the fear is precisely that. No, like, am I doing the right thing? Am I going to be criticized? And it has to do with the idea of the self. But when you cross that fear and say, like, this is what I need to do. This is what I need to say, and of course, it's not going to be perfect for everyone, but I'm confident that every time I do a project, I'm putting all of my soul doing it. And it has worked in the past, so I will just continue to do it. Because at the same time, I feel like in architecture, things are changing. People are coming from a world where it was calling the most specialized architect to do specific things. And I've seen a shift, because when someone is highly specialized in something, he or she might not hear the same things as someone who's doing it for the first time or with fresh eyes. So the possibilities open up a little bit. And hopefully that's what I'm doing. Like, I'm a good listener, and I'm just finding a new way of telling the story of the Met.
- [43:38]
Jackson Crook
When is the. Is there an open. Is there a slated completion date that's.
- [43:42]
Frida Escobedo
Supposed to, let's say, 20, 29?
- [43:46]
Jackson Crook
Okay.
- [43:47]
Frida Escobedo
Yes.
- [43:47]
Jackson Crook
All right.
- [43:47]
Dan Rubenstein
So you got.
- [43:48]
Jackson Crook
You've got some. That sounds like it's so far away, but actually, as you know, it's probably not really. Not really. Well, we're all rooting for you, for sure. And your work has done some product as well. And of course, as you mentioned, it's been a part of your museum project. It's kind of the sort of crown jewel of any portfolio. So how do you kind of see the next 10 years evolve for your studio? Because, well, you've got. You've got the Met coming up in the next maybe, maybe let's call it six years, five years. But beyond that, in the next five years after that. Like, what do you. How are you thinking about your firm? Do you want to do. Do you want to continue to do just, you know, these big projects, or are you kind of also interested more in smaller things like furniture or smaller scale?
- [44:37]
Frida Escobedo
We still have a lot of projects happening in Mexico City now. We're doing hospitality projects. We're developing a furniture line. We have the Limited Editions Furniture. We are doing a couple of residential projects for people that are important to me that had Started way before the Met. And thinking about it and talking to my team, I think that for me, it has been a gradient of doing small things that matter to me to doing, like, these huge commissions that have a lot of attention but that have a lot of pressure. And hopefully for me, the next step is to be able to have that same level of engagement and of things that really matter to me, but having a little bit more time to develop them. So there's no feeling that there's like these compression and you need to deliver something really fast. Not particularly with the most important ones like the Met or other institutions or the Pompidou, but even with smaller projects, can you find someone that you can partner with that would allow you to iterate a little bit more on a project, or could you find a way. And this is something that is very important to me, that allows you to have these bigger commissions that are of huge value to you, but that also allow you to do a more interesting practice because you're able to do more pro bono work. Can you start experimenting more with materials? Do you have clients that allow for that kind of budget? No, it's not necessarily something that is big, but that has more of a social responsibility or like, those are the goals, like finding better clients and being able to become a better architect by finding them.
- [46:33]
Jackson Crook
And, you know, on top of it all, you've been an educator of architecture at various universities. Not sure how you find the time, per se, but what do you think is the most important lesson in today, in the year 2024, to impart on. On design students to kind of make sure that they're prepared for this industry and this discipline today?
- [46:59]
Frida Escobedo
Well, when I was in school, I feel like it was like people were teaching me how to provide answers. And I would like to shift that idea to be able to give my students the opportunity to ask the right questions. And the right questions come from their own experience and what they're curious about. And I think we have been successful on a couple of courses in doing that. I had students that really say, like, I have no idea what to do. And then two months later, they said, like, this is the best course ever. So there's something nice about people finding their own voice that I love.
- [47:43]
Jackson Crook
And what's next for you? What's the end of 2024 look like for you when this will come out?
- [47:49]
Frida Escobedo
Lots of travel.
- [47:50]
Jackson Crook
Oh, yeah. Where are you traveling to next?
- [47:52]
Frida Escobedo
I'm traveling to Baja California to see a new project. So I'm looking forward to that. And after that I'm going to New York and then Paris and then San Francisco and Napa and then back to Mexico.
- [48:11]
Jackson Crook
Oh, wow. Okay. That's quite the. Quite the whirlwind tour. And if I had to ask for you to describe who Frida Escobedo is in three separate words, what three words did you choose?
- [48:25]
Frida Escobedo
Very shy person. I don't know. It's hard for me to define myself.
- [48:32]
Dan Rubenstein
Thank you to my guests, Frida Escobedo, as well as to Jackson Crook and Lexi Palmer for making this episode happen. The editor of the Grand Tourist is Stan Hall. To keep this going, don't forget to visit our website and sign up for our newsletter, the Grand Tourist curator@thegrandtourist.net and follow me on Instagram anrubinstein. And don't forget to follow the Grand Tourist on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen. And leave us a rating or comment. Every little bit helps. Till next time.