Studio KO: The Coolest Boys in the Room

Summary

Podcast Title: The Grand Tourist with Dan Rubinstein
Episode Title: Studio KO: The Coolest Boys in the Room
Release Date: March 19, 2025

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Introduction to Studio KO

In this episode of The Grand Tourist, host Dan Rubinstein delves into the vibrant world of French design through the lens of Studio KO, a dynamic architecture and design firm led by the charismatic duo Olivier Marti and Carl Fournier. Renowned for their culturally rooted modernism, Studio KO has made significant strides in the realms of fashion, interior design, art, food, and travel, embodying the essence of a well-lived life.

The Genesis of a Creative Partnership

Meeting at University

The collaboration between Olivier Marti and Carl Fournier began serendipitously during their architecture studies. As Carl reminisces, “We met at the school. We were both architecture students and were at the same school for a few years, but we never saw each other” (03:06). It wasn't until Olivier made a bold decision to change his hairstyle that their paths truly crossed. Olivier shares, “It's the spirit of the place and your deep, deep feelings that what you feel has to exist... something personal will come out of it” (04:25).

Balancing Strengths

Their complementary strengths formed the foundation of Studio KO. Carl's free-thinking approach to design contrasted with Olivier's disciplined work ethic. Olivier explains, “Carl's freedom and my strength of character and the strength of work... define us” (13:36). This balance enabled them to execute innovative projects that blend creativity with meticulous craftsmanship.

A Pivotal Journey to Morocco

First Encounter and Influence

A transformative trip to Morocco in 1997 marked a significant turning point for Studio KO. Carl recounts, “We were supposed to go there with like a band... but in the end, we were only the two of us” (16:18). Staying at John Wells' residence, they fell in love with Moroccan culture and craftsmanship, which profoundly influenced their design philosophy.

Embracing Traditional Techniques

Morocco's enduring construction techniques, such as hand-made bricks and traditional plasterwork, inspired Studio KO to integrate local methods into contemporary designs. Carl emphasizes, “We decided to use those techniques, but in a really contemporary and modern way” (22:43). This approach not only preserved artisanal practices but also infused their projects with authentic cultural elements.

Navigating Early Professional Challenges

Working with Ghialenti and the Hermes Family

Their initial projects in Morocco involved collaborations with esteemed clients like the late Pierre Berger of Yves Saint Laurent and members of the Hermes family. Olivier describes their relationship with Ghialenti as “tough but incredibly educational,” revealing how rigorous mentorship honed their architectural methods. “[Ghialenti] taught us everything in terms of methods” (30:01).

Overcoming Obstacles

Despite facing high expectations and stringent oversight, Studio KO thrived under pressure, learning invaluable lessons that propelled their career forward. Carl reflects, “We often say that we learn more during these two years with her than the five or six years before at school” (31:26).

Defining the KO Attitude

Beyond a Fixed Style

Studio KO resists being pigeonholed into a single architectural style. Instead, they adopt a flexible "KO attitude" that prioritizes contextual sensitivity and client individuality. Carl articulates, “We still avoid having a really clear style... we try to avoid that” (36:10). This approach ensures each project is a unique reflection of its environment and the client's persona.

Embracing All Possibilities

Olivier adds, “There's nothing we dislike. Anything could be beautiful or super disgusting, depending on the way you use it and the context you use” (54:24). This open-mindedness allows them to experiment with diverse materials and forms, akin to a chef creating varied dishes with the same ingredients.

Showcasing Signature Projects

YSL Museum in Marrakech

One of Studio KO's flagship projects is the YSL Museum in Marrakech, a testament to their ability to blend modern architecture with Moroccan aesthetics. Carl shares insights into the brief, highlighting the client's desire for a "Moroccan, contemporary" space that honors Yves Saint Laurent’s legacy without resembling a mausoleum (44:40). Olivier notes, “When we opened the museum, American journalists asked if we ever considered an Instagram shot. We said no. It was the YSL that made it happen” (52:24).

Chiltern Firehouse and Beyond

Studio KO's work on the Chiltern Firehouse in London established their reputation for creating luxurious, minimalistic interiors. Olivier reflects, “We are among the very few architects in the world who can do architecture, interiors, FF&E” (34:29), underscoring their comprehensive approach to design that seamlessly integrates architecture with interior elements.

Expanding Horizons: Current and Future Projects

Artist Residency in Tashkent, Uzbekistan

Their recent endeavor in Tashkent involves renovating historical buildings to serve as artist residencies, blending traditional Uzbek architecture with modern functionalities. Carl explains, “We renovated the Madrasa Kohran school from the 5th century... it's part of the CCA center for Contemporary Art” (40:53).

Upcoming Ventures

Studio KO is also embarking on several exciting projects, including:

• Busce Palladium Hotel in Paris: A new hotel adjacent to the iconic Palladium stage, merging historic charm with contemporary luxury.
• Natural Reserve Hotel in Portugal: Set to open next year, this project integrates sustainable architecture with the pristine landscape, featuring innovative wooden structures and hexagonal brick formations.
• Collaborations and Product Lines: Launching rug collections with Benny Rug and Elta, and creating bespoke objects under their Eye of KO brand.

Philosophical Insights and Advice for Architects

Listening and Sensitivity

Studio KO emphasizes the importance of deeply listening to the environment and the client's needs. Olivier advises, “Never think about your image or Instagram shot. Focus on the spirit of the place and your deep feelings” (50:20). This philosophy fosters authentic and meaningful designs that resonate on a personal level.

Embracing Contextual Harmony

Carl suggests, “Be sensitive to the context on a large scale... act like a sponge and absorb what's around you” (50:18). This approach ensures that each project harmonizes with its surroundings, creating cohesive and enduring architecture.

Resisting Superficial Trends

Both Olivier and Carl advocate for resisting fleeting trends and superficial influences. Olivier states, “Ignore the gigantic clouds of information and superficiality... focus on listening and feeling” (52:24). This dedication to substance over style cultivates timeless and impactful designs.

Conclusion

Studio KO exemplifies the fusion of tradition and modernity, creating spaces that honor cultural heritage while embracing contemporary innovation. Through their collaborative spirit, contextual sensitivity, and unwavering commitment to quality, Olivier Marti and Carl Fournier continue to shape the global design landscape, making Studio KO truly the “Coolest Boys in the Room.”

Notable Quotes:

• “Everything starts from the plan and comes back to the plan.” — Olivier Marti (32:18)
• “There's nothing we dislike. Anything could be beautiful or super disgusting, depending on the way you use it and the context you use.” — Olivier Marti (54:24)
• “The best way to get there is never to think about it.” — Olivier Marti (50:20)
• “Be sensitive to the context on a large scale... act like a sponge and absorb what's around you.” — Carl Fournier (50:18)

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This episode was produced by Carlo Otto, with Stan Hall as the editor. For more insights into the world of design and travel, visit thegrandtourist.net and follow Dan Rubinstein on Instagram @DanRubenstein.

Transcript

[Olivier Marti]

The moment you start to think about your image, your Instagram shot, it's already dead. The only things you've been focusing on is the spirit of the place and your deep, deep feelings that what you feel has to exist. Never wondering about what people are going to say about it. It's really to ignore the mood and the amount of information we get. Which is why, listen, sit down and then something personal will come out of it.

[Dan Rubenstein]

Hi, I'm Dan Rubenstein and this is the Grand Tourist. I've been a design journalist for more than 20 years and this is my personalized guided tour of the worlds of fashion, art, architecture, food and travel. All the elements of a well lived life. In the upper echelons of interior design, it seems that the French have the upper hand. From decorators and galleries to boutique furniture and lighting brands, the country has been ascendant in the culture. I could probably do a deep dive as to why. Why them? Why now? But since design culture has been more fashionable than ever, who better than the French to carry the torch? And while there are many ultra senior titans of French design, there is one dynamic duo that stands out. Currently smack dab in the middle of an incredible career that goes from strength to strength. Olivier Marti and Cole Fournier of architecture and design outfit Studio Ko Partners in love and life. The two met in school and never looked back, getting an early boost in their careers from some quite notable clients, such as the late Pierre Berger, the partner of Yves Saint Laurent, the Hermes family and hotel pioneer Andre Belage. The Times said it best when describing their work in everything they design, Carl and Olivier strive for a kind of culturally rooted modernism, essentially minimal but formed through a respect for local cultures and environments, not in that Bauhaus way that imposes a particular look no matter where on the planet it was built. Their work in Morocco is legendary. Imagine serene whisper, quiet spaces made from natural materials without a hint of bling anywhere in sight. And the recent YSL museum in Marrakech has become a temple of gratitude to the fashion designer that called the North African country his second home. The pair could easily rest on their laurels, but have taken on new and challenging projects in recent years, including product collaborations, their own line of collectible objects, special projects in places like Uzbekistan, exhibitions and more daring hospitality projects. I caught up with Olivier and Marti from their studio in Paris to discuss how the two met, how a trip to Morocco changed their lives forever, what they learned or perhaps suffered from the legendary Ghielenti, what the so called Ko attitude is and more. I'VE read a lot of articles about.

[Carl Fournier]

Your studio and of course they all say, oh, the two fell in love at university. And that's about it. That's all we know. And so who wants to begin? Carl, why don't you begin and tell me, when was the first time you met Olivier?

[Cole Fournier]

Yeah, but I think it's true. We met at the school. So we were both architecture students and we were at the same school for a few years, but we never saw each other. I don't know exactly why, or maybe, yes, for me, I know because one September, after summer break, Olivier arrived and he cut his hair. During the summer I had long hair. So then the whole face changed. And I saw him for the first time this September, that year. So it was really like a new student for me. I never noticed him before.

[Olivier Marti]

So, yeah, so it's a hair decision that changed everything. So it was not my best hair moment in life, I must say. It was like half long. Like in French you say carre. And they were very straight, so it really looked like. And long hair for boys, I mean, it's either too clean and it's too big. Either too dirty, it looks greasy. So it was always wrong. So one day I said, it's done. And then this is how I met Carl and Olivia.

[Carl Fournier]

What do you remember of that moment?

[Olivier Marti]

Yeah, I remember. Yeah. So probably cutting my hair just gave me a wider vision because I hadn't seen him either. Maybe the hair was in front of my eyes, who knows? And, yeah, so I remember one year there's a moment when planets align and you see someone you had never seen before and you have a common friend, and he was mysterious and it felt pretty obvious, like something natural happening. Big but natural.

[Carl Fournier]

Yeah. And, Carl, I heard that you trained as an actor first and architecture, kind of.

[Dan Rubenstein]

You tried.

[Olivier Marti]

You've been good, as I said.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And did you. Did you have a.

[Carl Fournier]

Did you have jobs and were you doing things before?

[Cole Fournier]

No, I was only a student. But I realized after that, I realized that it was more maybe to find I was really shy at this time. And I think that taking theater lessons and try to become an actor was. Was more, for me, a way to be more confident and to help myself to be a little bit less shy than I was. So it took me three or four years to realize that and to help me. And then I went back to architecture because it was as. Well, my first. I was hesitating between two. Between actor and architecture and theater. But, yeah, that's what I did. But I think it's still useful for me to have done this. And especially because that's why I arrived a little bit after Olivier at the school. And I realized as well it's because of that that we met, otherwise we would have never met.

[Carl Fournier]

And Olivier, you were born, I think, outside of Paris. Is that true? And your father was a nuclear scientist or something. And I mean, if you could. If we could get in a time machine and travel back and visit you at home when you were 12 years old, just hanging out at home or in your room or something, like, what would you have been doing?

[Olivier Marti]

I think I already had a bad hairstyle, probably, but different, I guess.

[Dan Rubenstein]

Were you a cool kid?

[Carl Fournier]

If you were experimenting with hairstyles or a cool kid, or were you an artsy kid?

[Olivier Marti]

No, I wasn't a cool kid. I was. I mean, I think we, Colin and I, we have a cool kid because he's so much into pleasure and joy and I mean, he's one of the cool kids at school. I was kind of the opposite, which is why every time he pushes the limits too far, we say to him, but do you have any idea the way we've been brought up? Everything was forbidden. I didn't do a birthday party before I was 20.

[Carl Fournier]

Really.

[Olivier Marti]

Everyday life at home was full of love, but pretty strict, definitely not cool. But I was kind of lonely and really focused on drawing, on arts and reading. And I don't think I was unhappy. But you would have found me in my bedroom that had the ugliest wallpaper in tartan, in like, shit maroon and dark blue and dark brown on the walls, like a square motif on the wal. Worlds, very dark. And I would spend a lot of time inventing worlds by drawing. So I would draw cities and architecture. I would invent worlds that had a name and a map, like X and Y and invent the name. And it was a mismatch of reading history and inventing. So on one world, there was the baddies. They looked like aliens and they were completely minimal and white and very mean. And then there was the baroque that were having too much fun and all of them were dying, of course, but I was doing this under the angle of architecture. I would draw their houses, their boats, their ships, everything. So it took me a lot of time. And I would bring it to my lovely mom by then. Passed away since then, recently, but I would really do it for her. And I would bring to her those crazy islands I would invent. And so this was, yeah, a big part of my life when I was 12.

[Carl Fournier]

And Carl, you grew up in, I believe, in the south. Near Cannes. Correct. Somewhat near Cannes.

[Cole Fournier]

Yeah. No, a little bit more north. In Avignon. Exactly. But I was born in Sarafael. You're right next to the Mediterranean Sea. And for me, it's. It's a little bit the opposite than Olivier. I had some really good, good memories of my childhood. I was really, really happy. And the thing I remember most is my summer in Corsica. It was really, really important for me. I used to spend two months here with my cousin and all the young kids of the village I was from, I am from. And I must say that I was really, really happy at that time. And I think that something that I try to give to our young son is to have this place really, that can protect him and where he can have, when he will be older, where he can have some really good memories with playing with other kids, with no worries about all the danger that we can have in big towns. So we try to offer him that kind of insouciance of really.

[Olivier Marti]

Lightness.

[Cole Fournier]

Lightness, yeah. That I used to have. And that is really important for the man I became.

[Carl Fournier]

And I believe your grandmother was an architect in Tunisia.

[Cole Fournier]

Yeah. And what is funny that my grandfather and my grandmother met at the same school as we do, Olivier and I, so.

[Carl Fournier]

Yeah, you're a legacy student as we.

[Cole Fournier]

Stay in the U.S. yeah, it's strange. Yeah. But they met at the bazaar as well, so it's really funny. But she died when my father was young, so for sure I never met her. But their legacy, because she was Corsican. So their legacy is really important for us in the family because all our Corsican roots come from her. So it's really important.

[Carl Fournier]

When the two of you first started collaborating together from a professional point of view, I wanted to know how that happened from just being two students together that were dating to having a first project that you worked on together where you kind of clicked professionally because obviously not all couples can do that.

[Cole Fournier]

Yeah, you're right. I think the first one was for the. Our degree.

[Olivier Marti]

No, we started at school. I mean, very little after we met. I think we did it two years. We had that opportunity at the end of the training at school to be different years in the same team. We call it project, long project. And from the very beginning we put together our skills. Carl was a little bit. I mean, not a little bit, but bit very free thinking in the school. He was making triangular buildings and everything was impossible, but crazy triangular. And the way to print everything was Beautiful, was very 1990s. But I mean, Pretty strong. And I used to be the best student ever. And I arrived at school very super classical and very limited because all of my talent was nothing at architecture. And the first day they asked me at school to invent a house. I just designed my mother's house without even realizing it. So Karl had like an elevation and a freedom that was completely new to me. And I guess Carl, that I came with my strength of character and the strength of work which defines me. So together, Carl's freedom and my. The power of work that I have made. The projects we did together at school.

[Carl Fournier]

That was that first project that you guys decided to work on together.

[Cole Fournier]

The real big one was degree and it was a hotel. It was completely theoretical, but it was an Aman hotel, Aman resort in Corsica. That was our first project.

[Olivier Marti]

And then when we left from school, we were not into any networks of clients or anything. And we started little project in the gay community. Each of them were pretty nice, but there were tiny, tiny, tiny projects.

[Carl Fournier]

Like a kitchen or something like.

[Cole Fournier]

No, an apartment, restaurants.

[Olivier Marti]

And we were doing, yeah, we're doing a glass shower for crazy guy. And everybody would say, oh, super minimal. And oh, that's amazing. But it was. And then we made a restaurant in the gay quarter, not far. And then so little things. And then we discovered Morocco. And Morocco gave us our first commissions, actually, even before we graduated. So we started working before we had the degree kind of overlapped those little things. We had made our company that has a strange name. We called it Cold, like it's cold. So it was K O L D, which was a strange, stupid. So we just kept the ko. And the day we said is going to be called Ko. We were afraid. We said, but KO means knockout. It's. I mean, it's. It's dangerous to use it. And then someone said, but fuck it, it's your names. Just. Just use that. So it took us few years at the end of our practice, at the end of school, university, to start those things. Try the name, get a few little things. And I think, Karl, we discovered Morocco before the degree because we knew General before the degree. And then Morocco. Just a combination of chance, meeting the right person. I mean, probably, you know, gave us the first commissions.

[Carl Fournier]

At what point you had your first trip to Morocco that kind of really influenced your practice?

[Olivier Marti]

We met in 96, and I think the first trip Morocco was probably 98. Would you confirm this car?

[Cole Fournier]

No, I think it was in 97.

[Olivier Marti]

No, 97. I remember my very first trip with Carl was on my 22nd birthday. Which might have been in 97. April 97 is the first time I knew Morocco. I knew General. I was offered something very special by this very old friend of Morocco. So it was probably 97.

[Carl Fournier]

And tell us about that trip. Like, how did you find yourself there, how did you get there and what brought you there together?

[Cole Fournier]

We were supposed to go there with like a kind of a band. We were, I don't know, maybe six or seven to go. And then one by one, they all cancel. And at the end we were only the two of us. So we changed our mind. And we were supposed to rent a big house for all of us. And then we decided to find a smaller thing. And we arrived at John Wells place. And John is such a character. And we fall in love of his place, of him, of Morocco at the same time. So it was really decisive trip and decisive moment in our life.

[Olivier Marti]

And then the real decisive trip didn't come in one day. We got in friendship very quickly with him. And he's very extreme. Like he could offer you everything he owns, if he likes you, is a bit extreme, sentimentally. And I think he fell in love of us as younger friends, as a young couple. And he became my son's godfather, actually. So it was a mix of an uncle, a father, all of that. When we met him, he was very protective. And one or two trips after he proposed that we would look after his house in the month of August, which is a month he would go away to France. And we stayed in this house under evil heat, tried to fix problems with exhausting personnel and crazy heat, nothing working and very few people living, so the worst conditions you could imagine. And we loved it. And at the end of this month of August, we went back and we said to ourselves, this is so special that maybe one day we could do something there. And at the airport we met with Pascal Musart from the Hermes family.

[Carl Fournier]

You met her at the airport?

[Cole Fournier]

Yeah, we know. We know her from Paris. We met her in Marrakech at the airport. And she was arriving, I think, and we were leaving after this two months in Morocco, in Marrakech. And we told her that it would be a dream to have a project there, because we were really happy in Morocco. And she. I don't know, she put that in a space in her mind. And a few months after, she called us back and she said, you still want to work in Morgo? And we said, yes, of course, why? And she said, my uncle is looking for architect, but he wants some room. Really young and easy to, you know.

[Olivier Marti]

Manipulate I was going to say manipulate.

[Cole Fournier]

So I think you might be the good ones because we were just, you know, young architects because we wanted it. Yeah. And we wanted it. So we met Herr Honkel and at that time he was the head of Hermes. And no, it was really interesting commission. The first one was really special, you.

[Olivier Marti]

Know, And I remember that one of the first things he said to you, Carly, said, don't talk to me about good taste because we invented it at Hermes.

[Cole Fournier]

This is what it started with. Yeah.

[Olivier Marti]

So there were. But they were sweet. It was really like family for us. But they were very arrogant as well. And we, yeah, we discovered this entire world, which, I mean, our grandparents, they were living like bourgeois. So we had a clue of good manners, not from our parents, but from before. But we had no idea of those people. And we got into it through Morocco and it was kind of easy for us because, I mean, we potentially had the education for that and we were not into it so that we didn't care about them that much because we're not belonging to that, but we're belonging to a good milieu enough not to want to be part of it. And from the very first day, we always had big names and big clients and more and more, and then the Anielis. And we always, I think, found a good distance to respect them, to be really comfortable with them without belonging to their same community.

[Dan Rubenstein]

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[Carl Fournier]

Like, what about Morocco? Like, if you had to tell an architecture student, you need to go to Morocco and experience that the landscape, the culture, what about it impacted you as designers?

[Cole Fournier]

When we arrived, it was a big shock because at that time there was still a way to build that was really traditional. Not maybe in center of the city, but when we go in the mountain or in the countryside, you discover people working really with hands and making bricks with their own hands. And in a way that disappeared in Europe. So things that we learned, maybe at school, but we had never practiced, never seen for real. So it was really a shock to see that it was still there. But it was the end of that. It was really the. And we decided to use those techniques, but in a really contemporary and modern way. So I think we participate to this new movement now that is really important today to try to save and to respect this, these local techniques. And I think that the most important and for example, the first commission we had for her private house, we proposed to the client to build it all in bricks, in hearth and not cook, dry, sun dried bricks, adobe. Yes. And the client was crazy enough to say, yes, let's go, let's do that. And it was our first real building that we were doing.

[Olivier Marti]

The other thing is that Morocco still today, actually is a country with a huge number of construction workers. It's always been a country of workers, of construction labor. And there are many disciplines with huge scale in Morocco on plaster, gypsum, stonework, brickwork, raw earth, cook, Turk, everything, a lot of things glazing. So there are very few countries in the world now that we've been working abroad for so long. The countries where anywhere you go, particularly in Marrakech and whatever you design within two days can be prototyped and sampled and then you change it. So it's really like a gigantic lab working. That's very easy because people are there, they love their work. And there are maybe 3, 4, 5, 6 millions of construction workers in Morocco. They're not immigrants, they're not foreigners, they're real, they're Moroccan. And it's very deep in the culture. And frankly, after moving so much in the world, I don't see many other countries in the world where it's still alive. India has a bit of that, I think Syria, before the war, and it collapsed, had a bit of that in the craftsmanship, it was really a country of making wood, of making lots of things. But the countries where, for instance, the rest of Northern Africa, it's gone. Algeria, it has disappeared. Tunisia, a little bit of basketry and woodwork, but super little in Morocco there.

[Cole Fournier]

In Egypt.

[Olivier Marti]

Yeah, Egypt a bit. But today, I mean, when we discover Morocco, the rich Moroccan, they, all of them, they had their official salon to welcome their important guest. And they would hire some zellige glaze style guys to do it. It would cost them a fortune. It didn't look really good because colors were super strong. But there's always been a tradition of hiring the artisans. And who's your better malem. It's a bit like Japan is the same. They have kept a very strong relationship to the hand. A little detailed. Morocco has that and it's very, very rare in the world. It was even stronger back then, but it's still alive today.

[Cole Fournier]

No, I think our goal as French architect in Morocco, and we try to do that now in other place where we have to work is, is to manage a way to try to create contemporary architecture with local elements, local materials, local techniques, but in a contemporary way. And for them, I think it's really important to help them to find their way to be modern without being occidental or without. Or without being. Yeah, without. With something else. That international architecture to globalize, but stay themselves. And it's exactly what Japan. And that's. You mentioned Japan, Olivier. And that's why I think about that, because in my opinion, Japan succeed really well in being deeply himself and they kept all their tradition. And at the same time, they are really modern and it's really difficult for Arabic country. And they are more in the imitation of, you know, you can see their city. They lost exactly what is an Arabic city. And they just tried to be New York, but in the desert it's just ridiculous. So.

[Olivier Marti]

But now they're going back to it. I mean, at least for 10 years. Everybody's looking at Marrakesh as an example of. You remember, Carl, a long time ago we were invited to a forum. I mean, back then we paid a fortune. We felt very important. And we've been invited by very important Middle east prince. I think today became a much bigger emir or something. And we've been invited to a workshop, a charrette, the Americans would call it. It was super organized and were officially architects of the deserts.

[Cole Fournier]

And.

[Olivier Marti]

Okay, so. Okay. And everybody was asking questions about Marrakech and they were completely in awe about the monochromatic color of Morocco. Of Marrakech that's pink and earth. And to them, it was a revolution. So Morocco has this. And it's a strong. It's an old country. I think the French over there has done less bad than elsewhere in the colonial period, at least while Marshal Lothay was ruling it. They protected a lot, the Moroccan craftsmanship. And they made a big thing out of it. And then the Moroccans did the rest. They were very proud of who they were. And the king, Hassan ii employed thousands, if not millions of workers in the royal palaces to keep alive the craftsmanship. So it's a long story of craftsmanship and construction that that makes it still alive.

[Carl Fournier]

And I heard that in some of your early projects, you were. You built a relationship with Ghialenti.

[Dan Rubenstein]

Is that.

[Carl Fournier]

Is that true?

[Olivier Marti]

Yeah.

[Carl Fournier]

That she kind of, like, mentored you in a sense, or oversaw was. Tell me about the story.

[Olivier Marti]

I'm not sure about the expression build a relationship.

[Carl Fournier]

I would put it differently.

[Olivier Marti]

We maybe suffered a relationship.

[Cole Fournier]

It was a really hard time for us. And we were not exactly working for her or with her. It's a little bit more complicated. She was really close to the Anneliese family, and she always traveled with them, especially for Morocco. So when we begin to work with them, she said to the Anneliese, she said, but who are they? They have done nothing. How can you trust them? So I'm gonna check. Gonna do. So we had hair on the top of our. You know, of our head looking over her shoulder just to be sure that we were working properly. And it was really good for us because it was difficult. It was a really hard time. But we learned so much with her. And you're right, we often say that we learn more during these two years with her than the five or six years before at school. Because it was really a real. It was a real project. It was not terror. So we. But it was tough building it, but it was super tough.

[Olivier Marti]

Yeah, she was mean. She was. But she was smoking filter free Gitan cigarettes, like, all day long. And first whiskey.

[Cole Fournier]

Drinking whiskey.

[Olivier Marti]

Whiskey.

[Cole Fournier]

Just never drink water.

[Olivier Marti]

Straight. Straight whiskey. Bam. And with her circle or glasses, like, with primary colors. So I think we're very happy we knew her that close. And at the end, after all of that was finished, after being so rude at the end, she was pretty sweet. We have a few Christmas letters from her written on her beautiful little cards. And I think it's one of the things that makes her very proud that we learned so much from her.

[Carl Fournier]

What would you say as architect? So what did you learn from her about how you do things.

[Olivier Marti]

I would say methods because she was a super. I mean, some of her work is beautiful. She did an apartment for the Neely's, actually, that was beautiful. But sometimes she had. She was very dogmatic in her language. So when she would approach a project with a new context, she would be completely off. Like in the Moroccan project, she was trying to put some arches that were meaningless, that really meant nothing in the project. She was not always talented, but in design, she's crazy talented. And so we were a little bit far away from her language. A little bit. Although we discovered afterward that what she did in interiors is beautiful. But she learned. She taught us everything in terms of methods. She would say, everything starts from the plan and comes back to the plan. And she would sit in a room with 20 macho guys all around her. She would look at the plan with her big glasses, and within one minute she would find the floor and send a guy on the site saying, there's a mistake, this is wrong. Go and check. And everyone were peeing in their pants. And people would come back from the side and wave at us behind her.

[Cole Fournier]

Like, she's right, there's a flaw.

[Olivier Marti]

What do we do? She was a dragon. It was crazy dragon, octopus.

[Cole Fournier]

She was so demanding, so challenging. And that's why we did some really enormous progress, because of a sense. Sure, yeah.

[Carl Fournier]

And to people that are. Some people are more familiar with your work at places like the Chiltern Firehouse. Some people know you from your homes in Morocco or in France that might be more rustic or more minimal. When you have these sort of two parts of your portfolio, and as people understand you, as people understand you, how do you want them? What do you feel is like a misconception about your work? Do you feel that people kind of understand Studio Ko as like a firm and what you represent?

[Olivier Marti]

I think that gradually the Chiltern Firehouse and all of that, in the long term, history will. Will be something a little bit special and protected. And. And I remember when we were working with Andre Blasch back then, he was saying, you know, Christian Liek, after doing the Mercer, he never did any hotel anymore again. Which was something to say, you're going to die with this, and that's it. And today I think we get his point because we had so many demands afterwards to do. And we're still happy to do interiors because it feeds in the architectural work. When you spend a lot of time defining beautiful textile and detail, it really nourishes the architecture work and it's completely necessary. And now we're mature enough to have huge commissions of legendary hotel groups who want the same firm to DO architecture, interiors, FF&E and styling. So we're among the very few architects in the world who can do that. Not that we're the best or the biggest, but today a renowned firm that does architecture, interiors, FF&E is very few. And we're among those ones because we did the Chiltern firehouse and those minimal houses. So kind of bring them together, I think gradually, probably because of Carl's work as well, on the objects and the eye of Ko. So there's gradually the real color flavor of the firm is textured, is rough, is architectural. So gradually there's a kind of filter which I think makes the image of the firm a bit more clear than 10 years ago. I would say.

[Cole Fournier]

We still avoid to have a really clear style. And that's really what we really don't want to have and to be defined by only one style and doing always the same project, whatever is the client, whatever is the climate or the program. At the end, you finish by having the same thing that the client before. And we try to avoid that. And each project begin by a white page, which is really, really difficult for the team here, because we have to rebuild new project each time. And I think that's what defines us more, more than anything else.

[Olivier Marti]

But I think the difference between architecture and interiors, personally, more and more I feel really thrilled by architecture, because when you go to an architectural site in a piece of nature that's big, could be hundreds of hectares, and there's just one building there, or it will be building next to a historical wall, you are there and everything you had in mind really exists for probably centuries to come. It's a big responsibility and to me probably will leave more traces than a lot of things. So personally, I'm so happy that architecture is going the way it goes, because it starts to be bigger and very aligned with who we are. It's not that we're making skyscrapers in Kuala Lumpur, so it still resembles us, but in a way that is a different scale than 10 years ago. When it comes to architecture, to interior design. We're working on a book with Francois Allard on just interiors that is very exciting as well. But it's the anti decoration book. It's really a book about culture, about history, about Francois aesthetic and ours. Then when it comes to architecture, you'll tell us Interior Stein, when you see Monography number two, do you think it's as good it's better, it's less good. I think our readers will say we have the feeling from inside that we're still as excited as day one.

[Dan Rubenstein]

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[Carl Fournier]

And one of your recent projects is, is something in Tashkent in Uzbekistan, which I believe is an artist residency. It is sometimes in all these projects in that part of the world, it's kind of hard to kind of nail down exactly what it's used for.

[Olivier Marti]

At least it's intriguing for America.

[Dan Rubenstein]

It's super intriguing.

[Carl Fournier]

We always want to know what is this thing? And we read these articles we can never really figure out.

[Dan Rubenstein]

Tell me about this project because I.

[Carl Fournier]

Think it kind of encapsulates a little bit of the soul that you bring into, into a lot of your projects.

[Olivier Marti]

I think it has to be related as well to the cca.

[Cole Fournier]

Yeah, it's. It's part of a bigger thing that, that is. That will come in the few. Maybe next year. I don't know, maybe.

[Carl Fournier]

I guess it's an ongoing project.

[Cole Fournier]

So. Yeah, it's. Yeah, exactly, it's. But, but the you're right. We delivered for first the art residency. It's in Tashkent. It's in the old neighborhood called Mahalas, which is more or less like Medina for Arabic word. And so it's an old urban fabric. And we convinced our clients, which is the foundation for Art and Culture in Uzbekistan, we convinced them to do this art residency inside this old neighborhood and to find. To buy maybe old places. And so they find a place that used to be Madrasa Kohran school from the 5th century. So a really old building in a really bad state. And we renovated with the Aga Khan Foundation, I mean, under their supervision. And as well, another place which used to be maybe art and craft workshop. We don't know exactly.

[Olivier Marti]

It was a kindergarten.

[Cole Fournier]

It was a kindergarten in between. It was a kindergarten, you're right. And so they bought these places and. And we renovated them for two years.

[Olivier Marti]

During two years, in a traditional way.

[Cole Fournier]

In a really traditional, as much as possible way. And so it's part of a big program called the CCA center for Contemporary Art. And this center will take place in another neighborhood of Tashkent in the more brutalist and more modern part of the city.

[Olivier Marti]

Soviet.

[Cole Fournier]

Yeah, from the Soviet period. And.

[Olivier Marti]

And it takes place in a former Imperial diesel station. So from Pre Soviet, it's 1910s, and it's beautiful long brick building that has beautiful proportions. And we're making a very contemporary intervention with new build and excavating. And the relationship between the two projects is the day we started working on the center for Contemporary Art, in the programming, there was artist residences. And when we started squeezing in the elements of program, we came back to the client and we said, there's no space for artists in residence. It's too small. What do we do? It was pushing us to build an ugly thing in the project. And we said it should be outside outsourced, which is how it came that the client said, but, you know, we have this program of protecting and emphasizing on the Mahalas. And then we had in Morocco the experience of taking a farm, renovating it, and having artist friends coming. And we said, this is what you should do. And then it came through a conversation that started on the cca.

[Carl Fournier]

And this sort of dovetails with my question about the YSL Museum, which was such a major milestone for you guys. And I was lucky enough to go when I was in Morocco, the one time that I was there. What was that brief like to build this museum? And how did that come together? What was originally requested from you guys? Because it's connected obviously to. There's the gardens and there's so much history and so much there already from his life there. How did the museum. What was asked for you about the actual structure?

[Cole Fournier]

The first time Pierre Beger told us about the museum and the idea of building a museum in Marrakech, he said, I want it Moroccan, I want it contemporary and with really good level of finishes. And I don't want it to be a mausoleum. That's the main tomb.

[Carl Fournier]

A mausoleum, yeah.

[Cole Fournier]

Yeah, mostly. So that was the only maybe brief we had. And he said, and you are the only one capable to make it. So. Yeah, that was the starting point of the conversation. No, Olivier, do you remember that?

[Olivier Marti]

Yeah. He had very little culture in contemporary architecture, although he had gigantic culture in lyric art, literature, poetry, painting, everything. But when he came to past a certain period, like I would say beyond the 1930s, the 1950s, including art and architecture, to him it was. I mean, it kind of sucked everything. So I think when we came in, I think before he gave us the commission, there started to be a little bit of an interest for modern lines and different approach to space because he visited one of our mud houses, Villa.

[Cole Fournier]

K. I bring them to a work site. Before the commission, he had his first shock. And when we were going back to Marrakech in the car, he said, you know, Carl, it's the first time that I understand what you said about contemporary architecture. So I think it's in his mind.

[Olivier Marti]

These something happen and gradually came to it. And I think, frankly, when he chose us, he liked us very much like a big brother, father, grandfather. He had commissioned us for a few things just to test if we were okay to work with. We had done some renovations in the garden with beautiful little interior project on Majorelle's painter Bachelopat or Isatuli. I mean, we did some things with him just to check that we were intense enough to work with such a guy and professional and used to this level of. So once this was checked, he could start working with us. And I think he was really focusing on the family character of our relationship. And he wanted this to be a moment of pleasure, of sharing. And I think he was surprised as everyone around him by the strength of architecture. And he knew it after the first month of working together that he started loving it. And he took everyone with him in the group. Some people were saying, you should do an international competition. And when we started sharing the idea and then the few renders, he was on a journey, the last journey of his life that was far Stronger and more exciting than he would ever think. And including Madison Cox and everyone, it became a much stronger journey than what everybody thought, including people's feedback and critiques, feedback on the building. It was very strong and he was very proud of that. I think so.

[Carl Fournier]

And do you guys still have that house in Corsica? I think it was in vogue or something a few years ago. Okay.

[Cole Fournier]

Yeah.

[Carl Fournier]

And it's a house from the 1800s that I think you guys have updated. And, you know, you guys have this amazing skill at making something that is maybe from using ancient materials or it's an older house, make things feel very contemporary and cool. For lack of a better term.

[Dan Rubenstein]

For lack of a better term.

[Carl Fournier]

That's.

[Olivier Marti]

No, we like cool.

[Carl Fournier]

I mean, that's my 20 years of design journalism. I'm just going to say cool because.

[Olivier Marti]

No, no, no. But cool is good. I mean, we could be happy with few designers being cool.

[Carl Fournier]

Yeah, exactly. And if you could teach a class to students at University of Architects and say, what is the most important thing to understand how to do that, how to bridge past and present, what would.

[Dan Rubenstein]

You say is that sort of philosophical.

[Carl Fournier]

Thing that people need to understand about making something old cool?

[Cole Fournier]

I think the most is important is to be sensitive to the context in a really large scale. Not only the landscape around, but the history, people around, the way they live and act like a sponge. I would say stay somewhere like a sponge and see what is coming inside the sponge and try to be fit by what surrounds the project and what surrounds you. And take time. I think one key as well is taking time to think about things, to dream about things. And nowadays we work under pressure and things have to go fast and faster and faster. It's never fast enough. And we have to fight against that and explain clients that good projects come.

[Olivier Marti]

With a bit of time.

[Cole Fournier]

A bit of time. So, yeah, I would say for students that if I have to give an advice is to resist.

[Olivier Marti]

I would say as well probably that to reach the expectations or whatever success or happiness, you have to never think of it. The moment you start to think about your image, your Instagram shot, it's already dead. And the best way to get there, which will bring everyone aboard and make the most beautiful picture life of your project, is that you never thought of it. The only things you've been focusing on is exactly what Karl is saying, is the spirit of the place and your deep, deep feelings that what you feel has to exist. Never wondering about what people are going to say about it. It's really to ignore the mood and the amount of information we get, which is why, listen, sit down, be in the dark and the silence, and forget anything else than your own personality and your ability to open your ears, smell and look, and then something personal will come out of it. And if you really think into yourself in the long distance, this is how it's going to work. When we opened the museum, there was a few American journalists saying, did you ever think of an Instagram shot? And we said, no. And for us it was so tacky. But the day we opened, the Instagram shot happened, but so strongly, of course, because of the YSL anyway. And we understood that the best way to do it is never to think about it. And it's like we have a few clients who sold the houses a few times and they said, the best way to sell a house super expensive is never to think I'm going to sell it. And it's the same thing. So it's about ignoring the gigantic clouds of information, of superficiality that we have around us and focus on listening and feeling.

[Carl Fournier]

And speaking of that signature, Carl, you once told, I think it was dwelling something that you had mentioned earlier in the interview, that you don't want there to be a KO style, but a KO attitude. How do you define the KO attitude?

[Cole Fournier]

It's exactly what I said about listen to the context. That's the main attitude we can describe. I think it's what we try to do every time we have a new new project is not to reply what we have done before. And when we delivered the Chiltern and when we had so many demands to do exactly the same thing, we were really shocked. And we said, but what is the plan to do? To replicate something that has been done by us and already. So, no, if you have a new vision to share, if you have a wish, yes, we can work together, but just to copy something we have already done, there is no point.

[Olivier Marti]

I think the attitude as well is there's nothing we don't like. I mean, people could say, I hate beige or I hate dark color, or you could see things in the style. For us, there's nothing we dislike. Anything could be beautiful or super disgusting, depending on the way you use it and the context you use. Nothing is wrong. Everything is possible in terms of materials, colors. Frankly, there's nothing I dislike at all in textile textures, material. So it's more the way it comes to you, which is why attitude is more important than content, what you do out of it. And. And it's like, yeah, it's like a good cook could do amazing meal out of any ingredient. And we're kind of defining ourselves a bit like that.

[Cole Fournier]

Yeah. And as well, we believe that doing a house for private residents, for private people, for someone is making his portrait. So we are more painters than architects in that way. And this portrait has to be not a caricatural. And we need the client to achieve this portrait. So it's a conversation. And most of the time what we see is that the interior designer deliver his vision, his own portrait of him, his own portrait everywhere. So he put his portrait on every house, in every. But it's not the way we want to practice because it's boring at the end. You always do the same thing.

[Olivier Marti]

What's starting to appear is a corpus of details, of materiality that defines us as well. I mean, the new houses that are coming, that our clients portray, but there are so much that. Four times bigger than the houses in the first book. But we're very happy because I think they're as textured as contextual. So one of them, because it echoes the feeling we had of the clients. And she was beautiful. We made her a temple. Temple for life, the middle of Portugal. It's very strong for the family. And it's the portrait. And it's stone and concrete and it's them in Morocco. We're doing twin houses for two related families that, I mean, they're friends, using bricks and their exact portrait of who they are. One of the family loves perspectives, architectural lines. They're a little bit colder. And the house is a very strong moment of architecture with axes. It's super strong. And the other one is more mysterious with kind of nooks and detailings in the brick. So it's the same ingredients on the table. And at the end of the day, each cake tastes completely different. And this is what we're expressing in the new homes that are much more ambitious than 15 years ago.

[Carl Fournier]

And what's next for you guys? You're working on this book that you had mentioned.

[Olivier Marti]

Yeah, yeah. So we're putting putting together the interiors with Francois and going to Arles, to his place, to make a very special book, which actually you're saying, cool, if we make it right, it's going to be a super refined book of interiors. But that'd be cool. And it's not just a little entressoir.

[Cole Fournier]

Of millions coffee table. One more.

[Olivier Marti]

No, a bit more than that.

[Cole Fournier]

We hope so.

[Olivier Marti]

We hope so. I mean, Carl, maybe you should speak of all your smaller scales. Project, like a lot of things.

[Cole Fournier]

Yeah. We are doing Collaboration with some brands. We are launching a new collection of rugs next week and we're gonna have another rug collection for Benny Rug based in Morocco. And that the launching will be in Salone in Milano. For the next Salone we're using some.

[Olivier Marti]

Sketch, one sketch of our son. Beautiful collaboration with the Canadian based rug company called Elta. And the graphics is beautiful. So these things, they really happen in parallel to the rest. And then all of your objects as well.

[Cole Fournier]

The Eye of Ko, we created this little brand called Loy de Cau which is a creation of objects and collaboration with craftsman. And so yeah, many, many little things like that. But really exciting that we use in our projects, most of them. And big project as well. Big project in Paris. Next year we're going to deliver a new hotel. It's the first time that we built in Paris a new building. It's called the Busce Palladium. It's a really iconic stage, iconic club in Paris. And we are doing a hotel above it. So it's a new building. And in Portugal as well. Next year we're going to open a.

[Olivier Marti]

Hotel for the first time. We are reaching a commission of much bigger scale hospitality project. And until now it's not like we're doing Ritz Carlton resorts and golf courses. It's still very special, although it's big for us. So we're going to open next Christmas a very important hospitality project in a natural reserve in Portugal by the sea.

[Cole Fournier]

Not next Christmas, but then the next after.

[Olivier Marti]

Yeah, in one year. No, not this Christmas, the one after. And it's a long term project we've been working on for six or seven years. We did the COVID lockdown working on it on Zoom. And it's a long story with clients we have very good relationship with and it makes us very happy because it's an ambition of landscape. We're collaborating with this great Greek landscape designer called Doxyadis, which is just into repairing the wilderness. So they're making nurseries of tiny lichens and speaking to the birds and the bugs. So it's very special. And the architecture pushed us to limits we had never gone beyond. Like we're doing hexagonal shapes, housings made of brick and concrete in the sand. We designed for the first time a very ambitious wooden structure that we had never done before that looks like a, well, skeleton, like very, very, very long. And that exists. So all of that you've been dreaming of exists in a very wide landscape that didn't ask anything to anyone to have buildings and it's beautiful. And the nature around being repaired is going to be very strong. So this to us, architecture wise, it's each time we go we say, wow, this is something. And here we're doing architecture interiors in FF and E. We're having some very big and important commissions, architecture and interiors as well in some other parts of the world. For the first time, we're reaching brands we have been dreaming of for 20 years. So it's big for us. And still we're trying to keep the very special and niche commissions, such as we're doing a winery in Minorca for a French family who's making a wine, creating a wine and planting vines for five years. And we're making this crazy little object of stone very special, very technical as well. And this is super exciting. We're starting a place for horses in Andalusia. So again, for an architect, we're happy to be able to keep the very small things that make you so happy, like wine, horses. A friend of ours were saying, okay, now you just have to do cemetery and you're done. You can go to retirement. You know, it's those projects that are dream for an architect.

[Dan Rubenstein]

Thank you to my guests Olivier and Marty, as well as to everyone at Carlo Otto for making this episode happen. The editor of the Grand Tourist is Stan Hall. To keep this going, don't forget to visit our website and sign up for our newsletter, the Grand Tourist [e-mail] and follow me on Instagram DanRubenstein. And don't forget to follow the Grand Tourist on Apple podcast, podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to listen. And leave us a rating or comment. Every little bit helps. Till next time.