Tom Kundig: Making Memories With Architecture

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Grand Tourist with Dan Rubinstein

Episode: Tom Kundig: Making Memories With Architecture

Release Date: October 15, 2025
Guest: Tom Kundig, Principal and Owner, Olson Kundig
Host: Dan Rubinstein

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Overview

In this expansive interview, Dan Rubinstein sits down with Tom Kundig—award-winning architect and principal at Olson Kundig—to discuss the philosophy and memorable moments behind Kundig’s iconic residential projects. Touching on his upbringing in the Pacific Northwest, the influence of his Swiss modernist father, and the origins of his firm’s signature kinetic “gizmos,” Kundig reveals how memory, materiality, and risk define his approach to home design. The episode provides an in-depth journey through both his formative experiences and professional milestones, offering listeners actionable wisdom and engaging anecdotes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Life and Formative Influences

• The Landscape of the Northwest:
  Kundig describes his childhood landscape straddling Spokane, northern Idaho, and into British Columbia (“That was my real neighborhood.” — [03:26]). The vastness and diversity of these environments deeply influenced his subsequent design ethos.

• Creative Community:
  Growing up in a small but vibrant creative community, Kundig’s family were friends with artists like Ed and Nancy Kienholtz, Harold Balazs, Rudy Autio, and Peter Voulkos ([04:21]).

  • Quote: “Because it was such a small community, you got to be influenced by them very personally.” — Tom Kundig [04:21]

• Father’s Legacy:
  Kundig’s father, Moritz, was a Swiss modernist and moved to the US post-WWII. Tom notes the extraordinary modernist output in small towns like Spokane and the collaborative work between artists and architects such as the 1962 Unitarian church ([07:50]).

  • Quote: “Artists were actually...making the walls, making the lanterns, making the planters and podiums. I grew up not knowing that that was relatively extraordinary.” — Tom Kundig [07:50]

• Immigrant Upbringing:
  Tom’s first language was Swiss German; he recalls the pivotal memory of moving to Switzerland and then back to the US ([09:21]–[11:16]).

  • Quote: “All of our friends…were on the platform…they were like a marching band…playing instruments that they were not trained to play…some melody emerged out of that.” — Tom Kundig [10:16]

2. Move Toward Architecture

• Geophysics to Architecture:
  Originally studying geophysics due to his fascination with landscape, machinery, and the physics of the natural environment, Kundig transitioned to architecture as an intersection of “the poetic and the technical or scientific” ([12:49]).

  • Quote: “Architecture is this sort of ideal intersection between the sacred and the profane…” — Tom Kundig [12:49]

• Early Career and Joining Olson Kundig:
  Kundig’s adventurous spirit took him to Alaska to open an office, but he ultimately returned to Seattle to join what became Olson Kundig in 1986 ([15:56]).

3. Evolution of Residential Work

• Firm’s Residential Renaissance:
  Although his initial work was mostly commercial, Kundig was thrown into residential projects at a crucial moment when the firm returned to its roots during a downturn ([18:44]).
  • Quote: “If you can continue to work on these relatively smaller projects, you can see that arc time and time again and learn so much…” — Tom Kundig [19:54]

4. Signature Projects and “Gizmos”

• Studio House as a Turning Point:
  The 1998 Studio House marked a breakthrough, defining Kundig’s signature industrial aesthetic—raw concrete, steel, and unpolished welds ([23:28]).

  • Breakdown of a key detail: Concrete kitchen doors on tracks—an early form of the "kinetic" elements that would become Kundig's hallmark ([28:51]–[31:14]).
  • Quote: “You can see the hand of the person…that was made by hand.” — Tom Kundig [27:03]
  • Quote: "If you just move a door, a typical, ordinary door, I bet you never think about the physics of the hinge, the weight of the door, how it’s cantilevered... But if you can… make them extraordinary, you can really make a memory.” — Tom Kundig [31:14]

• Kinetic Design and "Gizmos":
  Kundig explains his approach to kinetic architecture—giant hand-cranked windows and moving structures—originating often from client comments ([32:33]).

  • Chicken Point Cabin Example: A client casually wished to “open up the whole front end of this house and just see that view.” Kundig, drawing on his instinct for mechanics and materiality, collaborated with engineer Phil Turner to create the now-famous operable glass wall ([32:33]–[36:44]).

  • Quote: “The real beauty of design is something that looks really simple, but to get there is actually pretty complex.” — Tom Kundig [35:32]

  • Kundig distinguishes meaningful, user-driven kinetic features (operated by hand, not button) from gimmicks: “You become part of that machine. That machine doesn’t work unless you’re the source of energy behind it.” — Tom Kundig [37:00]

• Maxon House Studio:
  A studio on train tracks that can be physically moved for solitude or proximity ([37:53]).

  • Origin: Stems from an earlier humorous idea of moving a mother-in-law suite: “Most of the issues are pretty solvable. The plumbing issues are a little more difficult…The studio for Lou doesn’t have plumbing issues—it’s basically an electrical issue, like a big extension cord.” — Tom Kundig [38:56]

5. Design Philosophy and Approach

• Contextual Flexibility:
  Kundig stresses the importance of responding to site and context, ranging from the cold Pacific Northwest to Costa Rica’s heat ([43:48]–[45:40]).

  • Quote: “It’s not rocket science to figure out…you have to be smart about, again, the physics of it, the climate…” — Tom Kundig [44:12]

• Home as Refuge:
  He reflects on creating homes as places of safety, intimacy, and experience, balancing “cave” and “prospect” elements ([47:36]).

  • Quote: “There should be the cave…where you feel safe…And then…there also should be sort of a prospect side to it…It can be breathtaking, it almost maybe feels slightly risky.” — Tom Kundig [47:36]

• Advice for Clients:
  Trust is foundational in the client-architect relationship. Kundig encourages clients to express core desires (“I wish I could open up this wall to the lake”), while trusting architects to solve the details ([53:14]).

  • Quote: “If you hire me, you just gotta trust me. If you don’t trust me, don’t hire me…The architect is…in the position to solve the problem.” — Tom Kundig [53:14]

6. Personal Life and Reflections

• Outdoorsman Roots:
  While he no longer climbs mountains or skis, Kundig relishes time in his family’s lake cabin in Idaho and another mountain house in the North Cascades ([49:15]–[51:47]).

  • Quote: “Even though I didn’t want to be an architect…[my father’s lake cabin]…influenced a lot of…my architecture.” — Tom Kundig [50:42]

• What’s Next:
  In addition to the monolithic new book, he’s embarking on more sports facilities and resorts, always with an eye toward creating memorable architecture ([56:02]).

  • Quote: “People leave [great resorts] with memories, just like architecture—you should leave all architecture with good memories.” — Tom Kundig [56:32]

• Self-Description:

  • “Relentless, risk-taker, and realistic.” — Tom Kundig [57:18]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On creating memorable moments:
  “Where you touch a building, that is the handshake with the building. If you can enlarge that moment…you’ll never forget it.” — Tom Kundig [00:00]; [31:14]

• On kinetic design:
  “You become part of that machine. That machine doesn’t work unless you’re the source of energy behind it.” — Tom Kundig [37:00]

• On context and risk:
  “The real beauty of design is something that looks really simple, but to get there is actually pretty complex.” — Tom Kundig [35:32]

• On balancing refuge and prospect in a home:
  “There should be the cave…you feel safe…And then…a prospect side…It can be breathtaking, it almost maybe feels slightly risky.” — Tom Kundig [47:36]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00 — Kundig on tactile memory and architecture’s “handshake”
• 03:26 — Growing up in the creative Pacific Northwest
• 05:52 — Influence of his father, Swiss modernist Moritz Kundig
• 09:21, 10:16 — Immigrant childhood, Switzerland anecdotes
• 12:49 — Transition from geophysics to architecture
• 15:56 — Early career and joining Olson Kundig (then Olson Sundberg)
• 18:44 — Recommitting to residential architecture
• 23:28 — The turning point: Studio House and its DNA
• 28:51 — Innovative cabinet doors and kinetic details
• 32:33 — The origin and ethos of kinetic ‘gizmos’
• 36:44 — Why the hand-cranked approach matters
• 37:53 — Maxon House’s mobile studio
• 43:48 — Context-driven design from cold Northwest to Costa Rica
• 47:36 — Home as both “cave” (refuge) and “prospect” (view)
• 49:15 — Kundig’s own homes and mountain/lake cabins
• 53:14 — Advice for clients: trust and collaborative problem-solving
• 56:02 — Next steps: book release, sports facilities, and resorts
• 57:18 — Kundig’s three-word self-description

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Tone and Language

The conversation is personal, warm, and deeply philosophical, marked by Kundig’s humility, enthusiasm, and practical wisdom. His language is accessible yet layered with references to craft, risk, memory, and context—reflecting the thoughtful artistry of his architecture.

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This summary captures all major segments, insightful quotes, and the essence of Tom Kundig’s design philosophy, making it a comprehensive primer for anyone interested in architecture, creativity, and the power of memorable spaces.

Transcript

[Tom Kundig]

It's also memories where you touch a building that is the handshake with the building and if you can enlarge that moment of that experience, like I really am moving this door, you'll never forget it. If you just move a door, it's just become so ordinary, you don't think about it. But if you can take some of those parts and you understand those parts and pieces well enough and make them extraordinary, you can really make them a.

[Dan Rubenstein]

Memorable hi, I'm Dan Rubenstein and this is the Grand Tourist. I've been a design journalist for more than 20 years and this is my personalized guided tour through the worlds of fashion, art, architecture, food and travel. All the elements of a well lived life. When it comes to architecture, I'm typically left a little bit deflated. When I look at most residential projects, clients can get quite conservative and what typically comes as a result is something created often with resale value in mind, not usually a radical design statement. And sadly, the well to do often set aside huge budgets for interiors and mere scraps for the architecture and the architects. Of course there are exceptions and my guest today is one of them. His projects not only have an undeniable signature, but they frequently do new and exciting things that would make almost any observer say, yeah, I'd die to live in a place like that. Architect Tom Kundig Tom is one of the principals and owners of the 350 person strong firm Olson Kundig, based in Seattle, New York and Chicago. While the firm does a wide variety of work, from massive offices to museums around the globe, my interview today centers on the firm's residential work that Tom has been such an advocate for. His latest book, he's done many Is Tom Complete Houses from Monticelli. It's a 600 page behemoth with 462 residential projects featured. So what are his houses like? Imagine a semi industrial looking modern home that uses lots of natural materials and also a lot of glass and rusty looking corten steel, all perfectly nestled amongst a natural landscape where, as the saying often goes, the lines between inside and out are expertly blurred. Views are often framed by giant windows, and to top it all off, you'll frequently find what they call gizmos which are part of something called kinetic architecture. Imagine massive glass walls that swing open, operated by expertly crafted hand cranks, or even entire structures that move on train tracks. More on that later. Tom is a Northwest N born to Swiss parents and has been a keen outdoorsman most of his life. Tom's firm was started by his late business partner, Jim olson, in the 1960s, and he joined in the mid-80s, becoming an owner about a decade later. Tom's can do friendly and humble spirit is, in my opinion, what the design world needs more of. And it was such a pleasure chatting with him today about his exciting career. I caught up with Tom from his offices in New York to chat about his youth in the American Northwest, his father, the Swiss modernist Moritz Kundig, his early career before joining Jim Olsen's firm, the origins of all the inventive gizmos that are endlessly fascinating, some of his philosophies on design, and much more. So I read that you grew up in Spokane, Washington, which I kind of see as, like, the most Pacific Northwest kind of town I can think of. What's your earliest memory of life there?

[Tom Kundig]

Well, you know, it's interesting that you call it a Pacific Northwest town or city because it's on that dry side of the Washington state. So if people have kind of an idea of Seattle or Washington, they think of the rainy side for the most part. But the interesting thing about the landscape in Washington is that there's a very dry side, high desert side, and then there's the wet side. Seattle, Tacoma area, and in Spokane was the center. But really where I grew up was Coeur d', Alene, Northern Idaho, Spokane, and up into British Columbia, in Penticton and Cranbrook. That. That was my real neighborhood.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And, like, what was. What was life for you there? Because I know your father was an architect and your mom worked in, I think, in the design business in a showroom. And. And if I could go back to, you know, a Sunday afternoon at home, like, what was that life like?

[Tom Kundig]

That's an interesting question, and I don't really know how to answer it clearly as a Sunday afternoon. I will say that my life was. I was lucky. I was growing up in Spokane. I grew up in a big landscape. Obviously, the landscape becomes super important to my life, My architecture, even my choice of profession at one point, and professions eventually. But we also were in a small community, and it was a small community of very interesting creatives, especially artists. Ed and Nancy Kienholtz were sort of friends of the family, the Blazes, of course. Harold Blaze will talk about that, I'm sure, was huge influence on my. My life. Rudy Adio, you know, from Helena, and Archie Bray and Pete Voulkos and a number of that. Those kinds of artists congregated around this local community. And because it was such a small community, you got to be influenced by Them very personally. And again, I just think it's a lucky background.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And tell me a little bit about your father, which is. This is something that I knew nothing about, I think when I first met you. His name was Moritz, Moritz Kundig. And he immigrated to the US from Switzerland. And he was a modernist, especially out west and noted for that. Tell me a little bit about his legacy and what your dad was like.

[Tom Kundig]

Well, yeah, you're right. He and my mother moved from Switzerland initially to Merced, California, and that's where I was born. And then quite quickly, after a couple of years, they moved to Spokane. So basically that's where I was raised. He did come to America as a modernist. He was trained at the ETIHA in Zurich. Clearly a modernist academic agenda. He also came to Spokane at a particularly interesting time. And I think a lot of communities in North America would share this legacy. Mid century was actually a time of particularly good small scale architecture, experimental. It was enthusiastic, it was optimistic. And what's interesting is I don't. There are so many good architects that come from these small communities that no one knows. And because I don't know, I think there's a history, there's a story to be told. Spokane certainly had a really strong group of modernist architects that were doing particularly good work. They influenced each other. It was, again, it's a small community, so we knew the architects well. And again, I consider myself lucky because even though I didn't want to be an architect when I was a kid, just to be around him, I understand the influence on my life and my, my profession now is extraordinary. And that was, of course, the connection to the artists. So the artists and the architects worked together on a number of projects.

[Dan Rubenstein]

Is there a project of your dad's that you. That's still around today that you particularly love?

[Tom Kundig]

Well, there's actually a particularly strong one. And it was also. My dad was working with an architect named Royal McClure. And Royal hired my dad when he came up to Spokane. They worked on a Unitarian church. I think it's 1962. Extraordinary project, I think. And there'll be a little bit of a, you know, there's a little bit of history there that'll. That'll come up in a book. But the artist Harold Blaise was. And Rudy Adio were very heavily involved in the architecture of that building. Now this is interesting. So even back in the 60s, the artists were actually not just putting the art on the building or on a plot of a site, but they were actually making the walls, making the Lanterns making the planters and podiums. So I grew up not knowing that that was relatively extraordinary. And it is an extraordinary building, and it still exists. It was remodeled. As we all know, remodels can sort of lose the spirit of the initial idea. It's still a strong enough building that the spirit, I think, remains.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And did your parents speak sort of Swiss German in the household? Like, did you pick up any of that?

[Tom Kundig]

Well, my first language was actually Swiss German, because as kids, of course, my parents would communicate with us in Swiss German. Well, that was our language. We actually. We actually moved back to Switzerland when I was about four years old. My brother was three, and we spent a year plus two years, close to two years in Switzerland, because the idea always was. And you see this with a lot of immigrants, I think that especially back then, after World War II, you move to America because there's this big, crazy, wild thing, wonderful thing in North America. But you always made sort of a decision that you would go back home. So they said they would go. Come to North America for five years, and then they would go back to Switzerland. So they actually moved back to Switzerland. One of my most clear memories was getting on the train in Spokane to go back. Move back to Spokane or move back to Switzerland. And all of our friends, really close friends, were on the. The platform, you know, saying goodbye to us. And I didn't understand quite clearly how final that goodbye was, and turned out not to be final, which, thank goodness. But it was hilarious. They were all. They all had instruments, so they were like a. They were like a marching band on the platform playing. I don't know what. I don't know what they were playing, but it was hilarious to see all your friends playing instruments that they were not trained to play. And somehow some melody emerged out of that. And as a train pulled away, they. So that's a.

[Dan Rubenstein]

Maybe it was a Swiss national anthem or something.

[Tom Kundig]

It could be.

[Dan Rubenstein]

Who knows?

[Tom Kundig]

And that memory was seared in my. My memories. And of course, that was a pivotal moment in my life to go to move from Spokane back to Switzerland, couple years in Switzerland, and then move back to Spokane.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And then. So how long. Yeah, how long did you did it take to. For them to realize, oh, we don't want to stay here, we love America, and come pretty quickly?

[Tom Kundig]

At least my. Both my parents, when I asked them that question, they moved back. I said I would ask them, why did you move back? And they said, pretty quickly, they recognized that there was a sort of a freedom in the United States or North America. Because a lot of our experience was up in Canada, too. A lot of our friends were up in Canada, and a lot of them were Swiss friends. They were immigrants. They went to this big landscape, the wild landscape. Everything was new. I mean, Switzerland's, you know, obviously old in terms of civilization. America was new and for Western influence. And I think it was mostly just the opportunities, you know, the unknown opportunities. I think there are always known opportunities in Switzerland, but I think America represented unknown opportunities, which I think is, of course, fantastic.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And you studied geophysics before switching over to architecture and like, why. Why geophysics? Which I guess is like tectonic plates and things like that.

[Tom Kundig]

Yeah, well, you know, I didn't. You know, we all go to college with. With certain dreams. You know, I. I grew up in a really serious extraction industry area. This Kellogg Valley is, you know, Kellogg and Wallace was the largest, I believe, the largest silver mining area in the world at one point. There was a big smelter there, obviously hugely impactful, environmentally impactful industries. And of course, the agricultural industry is a big part of the Spokane area, the surrounding areas. And the logging industry was a huge part of that area. So I was surrounded by all these pieces of machinery and sort of the physics of moving big things to make little things so we could actually, as human beings, hold them or make big stuff out of them. Make little things to make big things, if that makes some sense. For some whatever reason, I was totally fascinated with that. I was also raised during the hot rod 60s and we didn't. We never had any car in our garage that we were working on, but I worked on a lot of cars as a kid. And I was just fascinated with the physics of the metal work. And of course, Harold, you know, his work is all about physics. He fabricated everything. So I just. I kind of knew I wasn't an artist, but I was totally fascinated, especially with how we would move some of those big objects. You know, it was just the two of us or three of us sometimes. His son worked for him a lot, and then that kind of followed into mountain climbing. But, you know, and so I was up in the, you know, in the. In the mountains and the physics of mountains and the physics of rivers. And so I just sort of naturally thought, I just am interested in the. In these environmental sciences, these big sciences. So I went into geophysics and I love physics, you know, in high school and, well, I went to the University of Washington with that in mind and pretty quickly figured out that now I'm not exactly, you know, the material to be a Geophysicist. And so as I was taking the maths and the calculuses and the physics, I was also beginning to take art classes. And we all know that, you know, architecture is this sort of ideal intersection between the sacred and the profane or, you know, the poetic and the. And the technical or scientific. You know, that's where the intersection happens with architecture. So it was bit of a natural evolution. As I went to school, I just. It felt. Felt comfortable, it felt right, and I couldn't be happier.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And so after graduation, before sort of joining Olsen Conduct, at the time, you had your own early career and a different firm with another partner. Tell me about that sort of first decade or so of practice. And what kind of work were you.

[Tom Kundig]

Doing when you graduate? I mean, I worked during my master's education. I worked for a terrific group of sort of wild people. And it was fun and it was crazy. And I met a good friend there, and he and I went to work in another firm. But all of a sudden, he was contacted by a friend in Alaska. And so John went up north. He and his wife had lived there, and he went back. He loved Alaska, so he invited me to go up. We took my Volkswagen van up there with full of architecture gear and opened up an office in Alaska. So, you know, I was. I was unmarried. It was, you know, it was a heck of an adventure. You know, my background is basically looking for adventures. That was a heck of an adventure. I couldn't be happier that I experienced those. Those years up there. But because of a relationship, I had to come back to Seattle. And that's when I knew it was time to be somewhat stable in a situation. And I joined a firm that ultimately Olson Sundberg contacted me, I interviewed with them, and Jim hired me back in 1986. And the rest is history. I've been there since. I've been here since 1986.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And so what was it the first time when you met Jim for the first time? What was that like? How did you know it was gonna work?

[Tom Kundig]

Well, that's actually a really great question because I could tell it was gonna work because he felt like a nice version of the architects that I grew up with, which is somebody that was open and enthusiastic and optimistic, positive about the future and worked hard. You could. You could tell. And he was funny. And, you know, I think that's really important to be. Have a sense of humor in our. In our industry. And I could just. It just felt right. It felt like I knew this situation, and I certainly appreciated their investment in making good Architecture. It was. It was a transition between Olson Walker and Olson Sundberg when I came down here.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And so when you started working with them and working in the firm, how did you. How did this sort of work on houses begin in terms of, like, what the firm was doing?

[Tom Kundig]

Excellent question, because I really came from more of a commercial background, but I happened to do a couple of houses. You know, the typical evolution of an architect was if you started your own firm like my dad did, you started on houses and remodels and kitchens, and it kind of grew into commercial, and you sort of turned your back on residential work. So I had some practice in architecture, but not really. It was mostly commercial and institutional. Started working here. That was a moment in time of the firm in that transition that they were kind of in trouble with work for all sorts of reasons. It was, you know, high interest rates, whatever. They had made a commitment to turn there. Just like most firms turn their back on residential work and go into more commercial work that didn't work out particularly well. So because they had such a. They historically had such a strong. Just like my dad and just like Royal and just all. All those other architects had really strong career in residential work, they went back into residential work and. And it was clear that we would never turn our back in a sense, like it would be historically done on residential work. So I was thrown into the fire to work on residential projects with residential architects that really were experienced and knew what they were doing. So I had a. A terrific early education in residential work, and I found that I actually really enjoyed it. One big deal about residential work, or smaller work cabins and huts and whatever, is that they're relatively short timelines. So in the design sort of arc from the scribbles to the finish is relatively short. If you're working on a commercial project, that's a long process. So if you can continue to work on these relatively smaller projects, you can see that arc time and time again and learn so much with all these different situations and circumstances that I began to really see the huge value in working on. On these projects, meeting these people, working in different landscapes, working with artists, working with fabricators, learning about materials, their expertise. So I'll do residential work for the rest of my career, happily, because I'm still learning from virtually every project.

[Dan Rubenstein]

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[Tom Kundig]

Well, that's a really great question because it is in fact a turning point in my career because when I came to the firm originally, of course I was more of a support situation with Jim in particular. He was doing a lot of the residential work and was happily kind of in that sort of masterclass. But pretty quickly he got a project with this particular client and we just weren't hitting it, you know, it just wasn't working out. And that, boy, that happens in everybody's career. It happens in my career now. I just want to make that really clear that sometimes, sometimes it's just not. The gears aren't meshing and we weren't meshing with that client. But the client came to me and said, I sense that you've, we would like to talk to you as the lead on the project because we have a feeling that you've got a sense of what we're asking. And I kind of agreed, to tell you the truth. I mean, I came from a different background, you know, and I had different DNA, frankly, and sort of a different training, if you may. And I. And it worked out perfectly. I mean, it just felt like, you know, in the music world, there are the first albums sometimes of people that come out of being studio musicians or whatever, and then they've built up this sort of energy of their own ideas or their own DNA and they've, they're. They've matured to a point and their first album is just a rocket ship. It gets them immediately on the map.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And can you just describe the house a little bit to those who are listening?

[Tom Kundig]

Well, it's. It's called Studio House for a reason. And because it is ultimately a studio that was ultimately a studio. The owners don't live there anymore, ultimately a studio where the owners lived in the studio, if that makes sense. It was the center of their life. So the kitchen, living, dining areas are in a big volumetric room. And the photographer in particular like to shoot against, as backgrounds, people with really natural materials. Well, that was an obvious one to me. I actually grew up with concrete and steel as a material left in its raw state, working for Harold and working on construction sites. It was a material that I. Materials that I loved. And there was a lot of influence from other architects that worked in those materials. People like Carlo Scarpa, of course, that it was a moment where I was really feeling like this was it. And I always will say this to all young architects. A lot of people will say, look, you've had this successful career because you were lucky and you have the right clients. Well, I think everybody gets that moment in time when you have the right client, but you better be prepared that when that moment. Everybody has it in their career. When that moment comes in your career, you better be in a position and with the sort of wisdom that you're going to hit it out of the ballpark, because if you don't, you may have missed on the One chance. And I think Studio House came along at a point in my career, a point in my sort of youth where I was able to hit a long ball. I remember walking into the house after it was done and I went just before that, you'd go into some houses you worked on. You go, oh, yeah, okay, it's good, it's great. But I remember walking into the studio house and I just never. Oh, this feels like mature, you know, it felt like this was a fit. It was a fit. For the owners also. So we all, you know, worked together. There were fabricators that were involved, there were designers that were involved. And it was just a moment in time where it all came together. So it has sort of an industrial aesthetic. It's a working again, it's a working studio that you live in. It's made out of very natural materials. Raw concrete, raw steel, plasters that are raw detailing, welding details that were not ground smooth. Of course, I grew up around welders, sculpture fabricators. And so I recognize the, the beauty of a weld bead left as is, you know, in the hand of the craftsperson, hand of the artist. So a lot of the sense of that building has a sort of a craft feel to it where you can see the hand of the person that. And I want to overstate that, but, you know, the hand of the. It was made by hand. You can tell that was made by hand.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And, and there's a lovely detail that I kind of feel is very you. That is sort of a nice signal for the future of not just of the book, but also of your careers in the house. There's a kitchen cabinet with sort of like a cement looking island that has these large doors under the tabletop of the island that swing open. It's quite a large swing. And the doors are on these tracks that are embedded in the cement floor. How did that come about? Because I feel like that is such signature. You do that on a much bigger scale now. But that's kind of the smallest scale of a kitchen cabinet door. Instead of scraping the floor, it's just on a beautiful track.

[Tom Kundig]

Well, it's a, it's a really. And I agree it's one of those moments actually. Another moment is the big pivot door on the window wall. Because that was also. Sometimes if you know your materials and this is that moment in your career, you know your materials, you know the limits, you know the potential. So you can do something audacious. And somebody might think, okay, it's kind of crazy to make a cabinet door out of concrete that rolls on a, on a bronze wheel. Fortunately, it was a client that loved the idea, the idea of the idea, loved the, and was able to embrace, you know, the risk because there's risk involved in all of that. If you'll notice, that countertop is huge. It's one casting, the sink, the countertop, you know, everything. That was an audacious sort of move on our part. It was literally pre cast in the big studio room, hence studio it was. And lifted into place. There's a whole kind of hilarious story behind the reality of everybody just understanding, oh, wait a minute, how are we going to do this? And the doors are similar because they were super heavy. So you have to solve the problem. It's not just a wheel problem. It's a hinge problem also. And it has to be movable. You know, it has to, has to be. I mean, it's something that you get into. It is heavier than a cabinet door or furniture door.

[Dan Rubenstein]

Is there any reason for doing it other than just pure aesthetics?

[Tom Kundig]

No. It's also memories. You know, sometimes you make these moves, whether it's a big window or big door or whatever. You know, it's like Yahani Palasma says, where you touch a building, that is the handshake with the building. And I love that, love that quote, because that's a memorable. That's a very personable, memorable quote, unquote moment. And if you can somehow enlarge that moment of that experience, like I really am moving this door, you'll never forget it. You'll never forget that door. You'll never forget what you're actually doing. If you just move a door, a typical, ordinary door, I bet you never think about the physics of the hinge, the weight of the door, how it's cantilevered, how that door mechanism is actually working. You know, it's just become so ordinary. You don't think about it. But if you can take some of those parts and you understand those parts and pieces well enough and make them extraordinary, you can really make a memory.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And this brings us to this sort of concept of kinetic design, which is such a signature of yours, and your team also calls them gizmos. Tell me about what exactly is a gizmo for you guys.

[Tom Kundig]

Yeah. So it's back to the idea that if you have enough wisdom about the physics of the natural world, the physics of materials, and some of the operations, basically my whole life was involved in a little bit of that. So if something comes along, like an owner says something that is audacious or kind of absurd, or you think of something that's absurd and not absurd, like silly absurd, but something that will be memorable because you want to be careful. You don't want to do it for a gizmos sake. You want to do it because you can do something that's extraordinary and you can do something that's memorable. So, you know, I had a client on Chicken Point, the Chicken Point project, and the client said, geez, you know, it's a beautiful view. The lake's out there and the mountains are out there. And he goes, wouldn't it be great if you could just open up the whole front end of this house and just see that view. And you know, again, I'm an architect that is going to be affected by the context of the situation. You know, whatever the stakeholders are saying, whether it's the climate, whether it's the landscape, whether it's the client, clients said something like that. I said, well, I think we can do something like that. So I said that with. He had no idea what I was thinking. But the root of that was from an offhand statement from a client. And I immediately went into, well, no, I think, hold that thought. I think we can pull that off. What's really important in that discussion is that I knew we could do it in terms of physics, in terms of counterweights, in terms of pulleys or whatever. I didn't really know how to get there because the engineering of something that's about, I think it's about 6 tons of glass and steel that's pretty heavy. So it's not only heavy to move, it's also potentially dangerous. You know, obviously does say so, yes, something wrong. So again, had a client that was willing to take the risk, but we needed to engage somebody that had also a little sense of risk. And that was Phil Turner, who has become our kind of legacy gizmologist in the office. Phil is not so much in the office physically, but he is definitely in the office just culturally. So he gets involved and thinks about these engineering problems, physics problems, in a very clear. And this is what I found. So because of my background, you can over design or over complicate something, but the real beauty of design is something that looks really simple, but to get there is actually pretty complex. So we all know editing back to the idea making something complex looks simple is the real beauty of design. And that's what Phil is a genius at. So if you describe something to him, and I described this, this window thing to him, he goes, yeah, yeah, I think I can do it. So there was some mock up that went into it in his shop at that point. He owned a company called Turner Exhibits. He's the owner, founder, and they did, they would do devices or something for Boeing, you know, mock ups. So really complicated fabrication. He got involved and the rest is history. I mean it was, it was just doable. I mean, we see those doors now all over the place. And that's great because it means you had some sort of influence in the, in the culture. But it had to be from one. You know, the first move to make that kind of move is the biggest risk because.

[Dan Rubenstein]

But a big part of this is not just a door that can move up with a button where you buy it from some system. The gears are all completely mechanical. They're hand cranked, they're beautifully crafted. You know, it's part of the design, it's all. Or the decor in a sense, 100%.

[Tom Kundig]

In fact, it's you. You become part of that machine. And that's the sort of memory. Because pushing a big red button and getting a motor to lift something up, that's like a garage door or you know, a garage door into garage to actually go up and move something, your arm, your body, the way you're standing, you're actually part of that machine. That machine doesn't work unless you're the source of energy behind it. And if you take it to that level, I think even instinctively, even if somebody isn't really thinking about it that way, I think that's why it's memorable. And those of us that really do think, oh, wait a minute, my arm geometry, my shoulder geometry back, it's all part of this device that's moving 6 tons of glass and steel.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And in the book, there's probably my favorite example of this sort of kinetic architecture which is the Maxson house and studio, which is a. For those listening, there's the house and then there's the studio, which is like a little tower on train tracks. And so. And it's like a kind of a, you know, very kind of flat, very wide train tracks and very flat little studio, two stories. I think you wrote in the book that's like 400 square feet or 350 square feet or something tiny like that on two levels. And when the guy wants to be close to home, the studio can be on the train tracks close to the, to the main house. And when he wants to be, you know, in solitude near some trees, it can go all the way to the very end of the. The tracks or somewhere in between, I guess. How did that come about? Because that seems to be a. How do you move. A whole little mini building is a much different thing than a. A very fancy garage door, for lack of a better term.

[Tom Kundig]

Well, so this is also the interesting sort of evolution of an idea in a. And if you work on these pro, these smaller projects, these ideas come up. That was an idea based on an earlier project where had something to do with a mother in law and had something to do with sort of like humorous discussion about could I press a red button and move my mother in law to the other side of the site? And we all laughed. And I think the mother in law would have preferred that also. But what it did is it elicited some thinking. And Phil actually and I worked on the idea of moving basically a mother in law apartment to the other end of the site. I mean, honestly, most of the issues are pretty solvable. The plumbing issues are a little more difficult. So it's almost like you have to move an RV or something like that to the other end of the site and make an attachment. The studio for Lou doesn't have plumb plumbing issues. Is basically is an electrical issue. So it basically is a. Is like a big extension cord that follows the, the movement of the office. But it is, it does speak to something that's really important in virtually all the projects we work on, especially those that are in the creative business. The Brain was one of the, the first projects like that where the discussion with the owner was, you know, he was, is an art, a director of short movie shorts and commercials and documentaries. So he needs peace time, private time, where the studio house was. Everybody was in the house, some creatives. I include myself in this. I can't work in the house. I have to work somewhere else. I have to go into someplace that's out of the normal, normal of a house. The chaos, you know, dogs and cats and kids and friends and go into a place of peace. And the Brain was exactly like that. The Brain was you leave one door and you commute about 50ft. And then you go into this sanctuary that's totally peaceful. Lou's studio was that. That he could come, you know, in the morning, he could have breakfast with the family, press a button, you know, he goes out to the other end, does his work, and when lunchtime comes around, he can, you know, drive his studio back to the office. Now you can walk, frankly. But Lou being somebody that's a risk taker, that's a great client too, that's just fascinated with audacious ideas, embraced it 100%. And the reason, just be really frank, the reason that project exists is because Lou just really leaned in heavily on the actual fabrication and systems of how that worked. He brought us in, of course he brought in. Phil was involved, Jeremy was involved, a bunch of people. And there were others, train operators and engineers were involved. It's actually a fairly sophisticated move.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And was there ever a request for some kinetic design like this where you couldn't make it happen?

[Tom Kundig]

We never had a request for One of these things to fly yet. That would. Yeah, that would be a tough one for us. And, no, not really. I mean, as long as it's within some sort of reasonable zone of physics. But obviously, none of these devices go 80 miles an hour like a car.

[Dan Rubenstein]

Sure, sure.

[Tom Kundig]

They're relatively slow and safe. And they. You know, they have to be able to be, because the thing you're building is the prototype is the archetype. You know, you can't do a bunch. There's only one. And, boy, I sure hope it works. And they have, so. Fingers crossed. They always do.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And, you know, while your work is really sort of synonymous with the Northwest sort of aesthetically, you've also done work in places like Costa Rica and other sort of, like, really beautifully warm places that I'd like to be in right now. What would you describe your approach to sort of residential architecture in general that's sort of flexible enough to kind of work in these extremes, from kind of cold and wet and misty to hot and wet and misty?

[Tom Kundig]

It's the most interesting part, I think, of, in some ways, being an architect, and that's what I mean by that, is context. Because everything we do, whether it's an urban situation, a suburban situation, or a rural situation or a cultural situation, around the world, the only continent we haven't done a project in is Antarctica. I'd love to do a project in Antarctica.

[Dan Rubenstein]

I feel like if anyone could, it would be you.

[Tom Kundig]

Well, I would embrace that 100%, I think, totally. Because what it does is you. You go to these places, like Costa Rica, like Brazil, like Korea, like Hawaii. You know, those are the warm. Well, not Korea so much, I mean, but New Zealand or Australia. You just. It's around. We're literally working around the world and have worked around the world. Those are. And it's not. Just be clear. The difference between a mountain house and shore house is. It's not rocket science to figure out either. Either place you have to be smart about, again, the physics of it, the climate, you know, whatever. There are special situations technically in either location. In a high desert house, there are learned wisdoms working in those areas. But it's. But, you know, around the world, it's the same physics, right? Gravity goes down, you know, and, you know, it's not. But you just have to know what those. What the input in those equations is if you're in a hot, humid climate or a hot, dry climate or a cold, humid climate or a cold, dry climate. I hope that answers your question.

[Dan Rubenstein]

Yeah. What do you think makes Your approach to architecture and specific climates and sites, or response site responsiveness, as we might use a more technical term. What makes your approach to this sort of unique?

[Tom Kundig]

Well, I'm not sure it's unique, but I'm totally fascinated with it. So I want to dig into it deeply if, if, if that makes sense. Not, not quite at a scientist level, because that would be a real specialty, but a real interest in the science of where it is and the cultural science, you know, the anthropology of a situation, the archaeology of a situation, you know, the ethnology of a situation. It's just fascinating. Well, the client, of course, the client is a huge part of the context. And, and given all those things, I don't know if it's unique, but it certainly can lead to unique solutions if you're really sincere to looking at the context of the situation. And part of that context is also the academic context, the learned context of architecture throughout history in those different. In those different climates and those different cultures.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And, you know, obviously your firm does more than just houses, and you work on projects outside of that as well. And you mentioned your dad's work on a church, and your firm has also worked on churches and other sort of spiritual projects. I'm curious, like, when you're designing these homes, are you intentionally creating a home that has a sort of peaceful, meditative quality to it, or is it just a natural outgrowth of the way you plan space and capture, capturing views and air and sunlight and all of this kind of thing?

[Tom Kundig]

It's an interesting question because, yes, you're trying to make a place. A home is a place of safety. It's a place of intimacy. It's a place of experience. It's probably the most important structure, whether it's an apartment in New York or whether it's a studio out in the middle of Wyoming. These are places of refuge. These are places where you come home. As Glenn Mercut once said to me, it's kind of too bad that architects have sort of turned their back on the most essential structure, which is the home. It's food, water, shelter. Home is shelter. But to your question, I think in that shelter there should be. I learned this from Professor Wendell Lovett at the University of Washington. There really should be two sort of extremes in a house. There should be. There should be the cave. There should be the place you feel comfortable, the place you can be intimate, the place you feel safe. And then there also should be sort of a prospect side to it. You can see the view. You can see. You can take a You can. It can be breathtaking. It almost maybe feels slightly risky. So you have that yin and yang of the experience of life, and you can choreograph your day basically between prospect and refuge, if that makes sense. So the home. Home is. Probably has some of the richest potential of life experiences, and it should, because that is the place theoretically you spend the most time in.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And above all of this. Are you still a mountain climber? Do you still. Are you still an avid outdoorsman?

[Tom Kundig]

Well, I like being outside, but I do not climb mountains. I don't even ski anymore, which. It's kind of ridiculous in a way. It was such an important part of my life. And in fact, at one point in my life, speaking of ridiculous, I thought I might want to be. Maybe I could do architecture as a support to being a professional mountain guide or something like that. And a mountain skier. Nah, it just, you know, you got to make commitments and at this point. Well, this is an interesting discussion, sort of a side to what we're talking about. If you're pretty good at something at some point in your life, like you're a good musician or something, sometimes I think it's hard to go back unless you're really at that same skill level. It's almost a little frustrating. So I couldn't go back and climb. I'm just not. I'm older now. I'm just not physically as fit. I'm not as technically trained in. In skiing, where maybe at one point I was a little bit more. So if I do it, I just. It's a little frustrating, but I love being out there. We have a mountain house. We have a. A lake cabin. And I just.

[Dan Rubenstein]

Where's the lake cabin?

[Tom Kundig]

Northern Idaho. It's our family lake cabin. My dad designed it in 1967. I think it was built in 68. It actually influenced a lot of. Even though I didn't want to be an architect at that point, I think it's one of his best buildings. So my wife and I actually bought it out of the trust and basically have been restoring it and expanding it in the spirit of the cabin and feel really good about it. Have a lot of memories there. We're just about finished. It is actually brought up as an influence in the upcoming book and there's a few photographs of it. And in the mountain cabin is up in the North Cascades, right on the Canadian. Close to the Canadian border. And share that with two other people and. Oh, it just takes my breath away every time I'm up there. We just had these huge Doors that just open to that big landscape. It's just fantastic.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And when designing or building any home, not by you, but just by anyone, if someone came to you and said, okay, I'm going to do this, I'm going to build my own home and design, and we're going to create something unique. And what's my. What's the one piece of advice you would give them?

[Tom Kundig]

Them. If they're hiring me or if they're.

[Dan Rubenstein]

Yeah, no, they're. They're going to do it on their own. Let's say they're going to just do.

[Tom Kundig]

Their own thing and that's.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And they just kind of want a piece of advice.

[Tom Kundig]

Well, you're. You are able to do it. You're not an expert. It's like all the DIY stuff. You're not going to be as. You're not going to be a. You know, I can do your plumbing as efficiently or as effectively as a plumber or an electrician or a carpenter or craftsperson or furniture builder. And that's true in architecture. This is our profession. This is what we're good at. Doesn't mean you can't do it. I have yet to see a project done by an owner without the help of an architect that kind of meets the level of the potential of architecture. That doesn't mean all architecture that's done by architecture meets that potential either. Let's just be really clear about that.

[Dan Rubenstein]

Let's say someone hired a contractor or like, you know, an architect of record just to kind of do all the plumbing and all that stuff. But, like, when you're designing the home, sort of bird's eye view, what kind of advice would you give?

[Tom Kundig]

Well, if. Well, it's actually also a nuanced answer a little bit. I had a client ask me a whole bunch of questions, really put me through the ringer, because he had never done architecture for the family before. And he finally ended up questioning. And it was long. It was a couple of hours, three hours. He said, well, how can we screw it up? And I said, I never had a client ask me that. I thought about it. I said, well, if you hire me, you just got to trust me. If you don't trust me, don't hire me, and I'll try to find an architect for you that you can trust. I think at the end of the day, I think clients should be involved in the design, frankly. And if you've hired the right architect, that architect is going to embrace your ideas. It's going to. They're going to understand this is your house, not mine. And I'm going to try to make an architecture out of your ideas, which is what I think an architect's role is. But you gotta kind of trust me that I'm listening to what you're saying and I'm then bringing an architecture to that idea. Well, like chicken point, the big window. I mean, Jeff offhand said, geez, I wish I could open this. The whole front end of the house out to the lake. Perfect. That's the kind of input I would recommend you convey to an architect. Don't try to solve the problem if this makes sense, because the architect is really in the. Should be listening to that and be in the position to solve the problem. A lot of people will hire a contractor and then design it as you're implying and then have an architect maybe just stamp the drawings. Well, a contractor is good at building. They're not necessarily good at designing, even if it's a design build situation that's a little more nuanced. Also that can actually work. I have rarely seen it work, but it can work. It's a long answer, but it's a difficult question. I think you just have to understand the contractor knows what they're doing, architect knows what they're doing, and the client knows what they want. And they should be using those two entities to get what they want.

[Dan Rubenstein]

What's next for you? What is fall of 2025?

[Tom Kundig]

Well, the book is rolled out and that's going to be a big deal for me personally. And then that's the fifth book, I guess. And to your point, earlier point, it does sort of consolidate, you know, the residential career a little bit and tries to tell the story. We're doing a lot more sports facilities, and honestly, I couldn't be more excited about that. Why? There's so many things that we're working on. We're doing a lot of resorts, which also. Typically resorts are kind of built in fantastic landscapes, from the mountains to the deserts to the shores. Kind of a dream to work on these guest experiences where people leave them with memories, just like memories. Architecture. You should leave all architecture with. With good memories. Optimistic, enthusiastic. Even if you're not aware the architecture is giving you those. Those memories. Boy, there's just so much.

[Dan Rubenstein]

And if you had to know the answer, if you had to describe yourself in. In three words. What's three separate words would you choose?

[Tom Kundig]

I would say relentless, risk, taker, and realistic.

[Dan Rubenstein]

Thank you to my guest Tom Kundig, as well as to everyone at Cameron PR and Monticelli. For making this episode happen. The editor of the Grand Tourist is Stan Hall. To keep this going, don't forget to visit our website and sign up for our newsletter, the Grand Tourist [e-mail] and follow me on Instagram DanRubenstein. Don't forget you can purchase the first ever print issue of the Grand Tourist US online now on our website. Just a few copies left. And follow the Grand Tourist on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to listen. And leave us a rating or comment. Every little bit helps. Till next time.