The Gray Area with Sean Illing: “How A Became A”

Podcast date: April 3, 2026
Episode Theme:
This episode, produced in partnership with Vox’s show Unexplainable, explores a seemingly simple—but actually quite complex—question: “What is a musical note?” Specifically, it investigates how the note A (the standard reference pitch in Western music) became set at 440 hertz. Through interviews, history, and lively storytelling, the episode considers the technical, cultural, and even conspiratorial dimensions behind standardizing something as intangible as a musical tone.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Ritual of Tuning (02:34–04:50)

• Every classical concert begins with tuning to the note A, usually given by the oboe.
• Fanny Grebenski, music historian and author of Tuning the World, notes that this ritual is so common we barely notice it, but it's a microcosm of what it takes to standardize sound.
  • Quote (03:10):

    "The instrument that usually gives this note is the oboe. And then all of the other instruments will pick this note to tune to it..."
    — Fanny Grebenski

A Note Is Not Just a Note (06:46–09:50)

• The note A is today standardized at 440Hz, but in the past, it varied widely—sometimes by 100Hz or more, depending on city, instrument, and context.
• Before standardization, musicians would tune to the least flexible instrument in the room (often the organ), which could fluctuate based on weather.
• Historical context: The 19th-century rise of rational standards (like the metric system) influenced calls for a “scientific” musical pitch.
  • Quote (09:16):

    "...the first time that the conversation about pitch standards really took off, and people were very anxious about it, the moment when people have to decide what is our common... point of departure."
    — Fanny Grebenski

Science, Aesthetics, Anxiety, and Standardization (09:50–14:54)

• Standardizing pitch involved more than science; it included aesthetics and practical considerations (e.g., ease for singers, instrument makers’ preferences).

  • Opera singers often preferred lower pitches, while brass makers would push for higher ones for better projection.

• 19th-century musicians became anxious that ever-higher pitches would make performing historical works impossible.

  • Quote (12:11):

    "If the pitch rises, we will never be able to perform this opera again. Like, what are we going to do if our standards of performance do not no longer accommodate musics from the past that have become increasingly valuable?"
    — Fanny Grebenski

• France created the first meaningful legal standard: A = 435Hz (the “French pitch” or “diapason normal”).

Pitch Becomes Cultural – Not Just Technical (14:54–15:22)

• The debate over pitch standards trickled into the public sphere—people read about it, talked about it, and developed personal attachments, whether or not they could truly perceive the difference.
  • Quote (15:03):

    “Exactly.”
    — Fanny Grebenski, agreeing that conversation itself intensified public interest in pitch.

International Chaos and the Rise of 440Hz (15:22–19:47)

• Even with legal standards, musicians often ignored them, and multiple standards co-existed (e.g., 439Hz in Britain).
• The American pitch (A = 440Hz) was propagated by instrument maker John Deegan and adopted by numerous U.S. music organizations. Deegan's entrepreneurial motives were significant—by pushing his standard, he could shut out European competition.
  • Quote (18:37):

    “If he was able to convince American practitioners that the standard ... was not a European standard, but American standard ... it was also a way of closing the market to his competitors.”
    — Fanny Grebenski

• The shift to 440Hz reflected America’s growing global music influence in the 20th century.

World War II and Global Consensus (21:08–24:50)

• In 1939, representatives from soon-to-be-warring countries (Britain, Germany, France, etc.) met at the BBC in London and, remarkably, collectively agreed to adopt A = 440Hz, matching the American standard.
  • Quote (22:38):

    "He [the BBC head] gives this very, very political, very emotional speech... There is this idea that if we can create a community of listeners ... this will help foster peace."
    — Fanny Grebenski

• The irony: the idealistic hope that standardizing musical pitch might somehow contribute to world harmony, though, as history showed, this did not prevent war.

Standardization Never Truly Sticks (24:50–27:45)

• Despite global agreement, musicians continue to use a range of pitches.
  • Examples: Some modern ensembles use historical tunings; countless musicians play at non-standard pitches; conspiracies abound.
• Wild theories have attached themselves to A = 440Hz, ranging from Nazi mind control to Rothschild banking conspiracies, but none are supported by serious evidence.
  • Quote (25:54):

    “A440 might be this, you know, Nazi standard.”
    — Fanny Grebenski, summarizing conspiracy claims

• Ultimately, Fanny’s “hot take”:
  • Quote (27:45):

    “Standard pitch doesn’t really matter because there’s no performance in which every note is played exactly in tune anyway. Music is just too fluid to standardize.”
    — Fanny Grebenski

The Tuning Ritual Revisited (27:45–End)

• The famous oboe “A” before a concert doesn’t enforce some eternal, universal standard; it’s just a fleeting agreement for “this room, this moment.”
  • Quote (27:45):

    “It’s not really about getting everyone to conform to a universal standard. It’s to make sure all the musicians in the room are playing in tune with each other.”
    — Emily Siner (host)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 03:10 | Fanny Grebenski | “The instrument that usually gives this note is the oboe. And then all of the other instruments will pick this note to tune to it...” | | 09:16 | Fanny Grebenski | “The first time that the conversation about pitch standards really took off, people were very anxious about it... what is our shared point of departure to perform music?” | | 12:11 | Fanny Grebenski | “If the pitch rises, we will never be able to perform this opera again...” | | 18:37 | Fanny Grebenski | “If he was able to convince American practitioners that the standard ... was not a European standard, but American standard ... it was also a way of closing the market to his competitors.” | | 22:38 | Fanny Grebenski | “There is this idea that if we can create a community of listeners ... this will help foster peace.” | | 27:45 | Fanny Grebenski | “Standard pitch doesn’t really matter because there’s no performance in which every note is played exactly in tune anyway. Music is just too fluid to standardize.” | | 27:45 | Emily Siner | “It’s not really about getting everyone to conform to a universal standard. It’s to make sure all the musicians in the room are playing in tune with each other.” |

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:34 — First mention of the classical concert tuning ritual
• 06:46 — Explanation of historical variance in “A” pitch
• 08:51 — Influence of the French Revolution and metric system on pitch standardization
• 13:12 — France sets A = 435Hz (“diapason normal”)
• 15:22 — The difficulties of making a standard stick
• 17:11 — The American push for 440Hz and John Deegan’s influence
• 21:08 — International agreement at the eve of WWII
• 24:50 — Online conspiracies and ongoing “A” pitch debates
• 27:45 — Conclusion on the true meaning (or lack thereof) of standard pitch

Episode Takeaway

This episode offers a deep, lively, and accessible look at how something as “objective” as a musical note is, in fact, a social and cultural agreement—one that’s still flimsier than most realize. The story of A = 440Hz is a story of science, aesthetics, commerce, anxiety, politics, and hope—including a misplaced hope that musical agreement could foster global peace. Ultimately, the standard is less about perfection or universality, and more about the ongoing, local act of people tuning in to each other, both literally and figuratively.

Hosted by: Emily Siner (Unexplainable)
Featured Guest: Fanny Grebenski (music historian and author)
Editorial supervision and sound design: Vox Media Podcast Network

For further reading or feedback, the episode invites listeners to contact Unexplainable at unexplainableox.com and to consider supporting Vox journalism through their member program.