Jane Marie is an expert in American bullshit. Her podcast The Dream explores life coaching, wellness, marketing, and other fraudulent industries and exposes their exploitative practices. Her book, Selling the Dream, takes an even closer look at multilevel marketing schemes like Amway and Herbalife and gives historical context to this multibillion-dollar — and distinctly American — enterprise.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Jane Marie. Her podcast is The Dream and her book is Selling the Dream.

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd

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The American dream is a pyramid scheme