The Great Books Podcast: Episode 350 - 'The Histories' by Herodotus
Released on November 26, 2024
Hosts:
- John J. Miller (National Review)
Guest:
- Paul Ray, Professor of History at Hillsdale College
Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
In Episode 350 of The Great Books, host John J. Miller welcomes back Paul Ray, a distinguished history professor from Hillsdale College. Paul Ray is renowned for his extensive works on classical Sparta, including Sparta's Third Attic War and Republics Ancient and Modern. He has previously discussed seminal works such as Boccaccio's Decameron and Machiavelli's The Prince on the podcast.
[00:07]
John J. Miller: "Welcome to the Great Books Podcast. Today we'll talk about the Histories by Herodotus."
The Significance of "The Histories" by Herodotus
Paul Ray emphasizes the monumental nature of Herodotus's Histories, describing it as the most comprehensive account of the Persian Wars—a pivotal event in human history. He highlights the vastness of the Persian Empire during the 5th century BC, noting its unparalleled control over major river valleys which were the cradles of civilization.
[01:04]
Paul Ray: "It's the fullest account, and it's a very full account that we have of one of the most remarkable events in human history, which is to say the Persian Wars."
The Persian Wars: An Epic Struggle
The discussion delves into the dramatic confrontations between the Persians and the Greeks, specifically focusing on the Battles of Marathon and Thermopylae. Paul Ray marvels at the David versus Goliath narrative, where vastly outnumbered Greek forces triumph against the Persians, showcasing the strategic genius and valor of the Greeks.
[02:00]
Paul Ray: "They come to the northeastern Mediterranean... they lose [at Marathon]. How many Athenians were there? Herodotus says 30,000. How many Athenian soldiers were there? 10,000, maybe. They were greatly outnumbered. And yet they won."
Herodotus as a Storyteller and Historian
John J. Miller ponders the uniqueness of Herodotus's approach to history, noting his narrative style that intertwines storytelling with factual recounting. They explore Herodotus's methodology as an oral historian who meticulously gathered accounts through travel and interviews, setting a precedent for historical inquiry.
[06:30]
Paul Ray: "Herodotus, inspired by Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, writes the story. But where the Iliad and the Odyssey is, at least to a considerable degree, fiction, Herodotus is telling as closely as he can the truth about these events."
Reliability and Accuracy of Herodotus
Addressing critiques of Herodotus's reliability, Paul Ray provides concrete examples where archaeological evidence, such as the Behistun Inscription, corroborates Herodotus’s accounts with remarkable precision. Despite minor discrepancies, such as misnaming one of the conspirators in Darius's rise to power, Herodotus's work is largely affirmed by historical evidence.
[08:38]
Paul Ray: "Herodotus is wrapping up his history around maybe 526, almost 100 years later he tells exactly the same story except he gets the name of one of the seven wrong."
The Battle of Thermopylae: A Detailed Examination
A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the legendary Battle of Thermopylae. Paul Ray outlines the strategic importance of Thermopylae as a choke point and details the logistical nightmares faced by the Persian army. He highlights the Spartan valor, noting that the 300 Spartans were selected for their willingness to sacrifice, embodying the Greek ideals of freedom and courage.
[16:37]
Paul Ray: "The Persians arrive at Thermopylae in September... The Spartans in particular will fight, and they'll fight to the very end."
[21:07]
John J. Miller: "Were there in fact, 300 of them?"
[21:09]
Paul Ray: "300 Spartans. And interestingly enough, they are chosen from among men who have sons to leave behind... They are chosen in the expectation that they will die because of an oracle that said a king must die."
Herodotus’s Legacy and Modern Relevance
Discussing the enduring impact of Herodotus's work, Paul Ray asserts that without Herodotus, our understanding of pivotal events like Thermopylae would be significantly diminished. He draws parallels between Herodotus’s narratives and contemporary history, advocating for modern historians to adopt a similar comprehensive and narrative-driven approach.
[23:40]
John J. Miller: "We have this story, Thermopylae, largely because of Herodotus. Paul, what do we know today that we wouldn't know if Herodotus never had written down his histories?"
[23:51]
Paul Ray: "What he has to tell us is fabulous and pretty accurate... And what he has to tell us is fabulous and pretty accurate."
Comparing Herodotus and Thucydides
The conversation transitions to a comparison between Herodotus and Thucydides, the latter being another giant of Greek historiography. Paul Ray contrasts their methodologies and focuses, describing Herodotus as a blend between historian and novelist, while Thucydides is portrayed as an early political scientist with a keen interest in human nature and geopolitical analysis.
[30:18]
Paul Ray: "Herodotus wants to take what happened and make sure it's remembered... Thucydides is in between being an historian and a political scientist."
Recommended Editions and Resources
Paul Ray recommends the Landmark Edition of Herodotus's Histories, edited by Robert Strassler. He praises its comprehensive maps and appendices, noting that it transforms the reading experience by providing essential geographical context that facilitates a deeper understanding of the events described.
[26:51]
Paul Ray: "The translation is not perfect. The maps, however, and there are over 100 maps."
The Case for Reading Herodotus Today
In wrapping up, Paul Ray articulates the timeless relevance of Herodotus's Histories. He underscores its role as a reminder of the perennial struggle between despotism and freedom, advocating for its continued study to inspire vigilance and understanding of national security and great power relations.
[32:35]
Paul Ray: "It's a reminder of the ongoing struggle between despotism and freedom... It does provide you with the basis for analyzing great power relations."
Conclusion
John J. Miller concludes the episode by thanking Paul Ray for his insightful analysis of Herodotus's Histories. He encourages listeners to subscribe and engage with future episodes, promising continued exploration of the great works that have shaped Western civilization.
[33:22]
John J. Miller: "Paul Ray, thanks so much for joining us and telling us all about the histories by Herodotus."
Key Takeaways:
- Herodotus's Histories provides a comprehensive and largely accurate account of the Persian Wars, blending storytelling with historical inquiry.
- The Battle of Thermopylae exemplifies the valor and strategic prowess of the Greeks against overwhelming Persian forces.
- Herodotus's work remains invaluable for understanding ancient civilizations and their enduring legacies.
- Comparing Herodotus to Thucydides highlights different approaches to historiography, with Thucydides leaning more towards political analysis.
- Recommended editions, like the Landmark Edition, enhance the reading experience with detailed maps and contextual information.
For more insightful discussions on classic works within the Western literary canon, subscribe to The Great Books Podcast and leave a review to support the show. Connect with John J. Miller through his website or Twitter @heymiller.