
Today's Mystery: America's public enemey #1 is interested in turning himself in to Walter Winchell to be handed over to the FBI. But will he actually do it? Original Radio Broadcast: September 17, 1947 Originating from New York Starring: Ward...
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Welcome to the Great Detectives of Old Time Radio from Boise, Idaho. This is your host, Adam Graham. In a moment, we're going to bring you this week's episode of the Big Story. But first, I want to encourage you, if you're enjoying the podcast, to follow us using your favorite podcast software. And if you're enjoying the podcast on YouTube, be sure to like the video, subscribe to the channel and mark the notification bell. All those great things that help YouTube channels to grow. The Christmas season is upon us, and so are our seasonal podcast episodes. So I'm going to go ahead and give a brief guide if you're interested in hearing Christmas programs as to what we've got coming up first on the Great Detectives of Old Time Radio. Our Christmas programming kicks off on Thursday with Dragnet and continues through next Wednesday, with the exception of the Big Story where, alas, all of the Christmas episodes of this series are missing. So we'll have Christmas episodes of Dragnet, yours truly, Johnny Dollar, a Christmas special on Sunday and Christmas episodes of Danger with Granger and Broadway's Mob 8. Then over on the Amazing World of Radio at amazing.greatdetectives.net and we will have our Christmas program will play on Thursday the 19th, Sunday the 21st and Tuesday the 23rd. Also this year we will have a New Year's Eve special that will drop on December 31st over at the Old Time Radio Snack Wagon at snackwagon.net we will have a Christmas episode on Monday, a New Year's episode the following Monday and then on New Year's Day, our annual public domain day record party. And finally on the great adventurers of Old Time Radio, we will be going into a season of featuring encores that are adventure related from other podcasts starting this Saturday. And the first two episodes airing on Saturday the 19th and December 23rd will be holiday themed. So again, we've got a lot of great holiday listening for you. I hope that you will be enjoying that. Well now from September 17, 1947. So again we're going back a few months. Here is the case of the Cornered cat.
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Pall Mall Famous Cigarettes presents the Big Story. All right, reporter, turn left here. But I. Keep your trap shut and turn left, I said. All right. Stop the car there under that tree, you know, where it's nice and dark. Look, I know. As I say. Now turn off the ignition. The headlights too. What are you gonna do now? Just make sure you don't double cross a wall of Winchel. The BIG Story, another in a thrilling series based on true experiences of newspaper reporters. Tonight, to Walter Winchell of the New York Daily Mirror goes the Pell Mell award for the. Four notes that are alike and one that is outstanding. And of America's leading cigarettes, one is outstanding, the cigarette in the distinctive red package, Pell Mell. Ladies and gentlemen, have you noticed how many of your friends have changed to Pell Mell? There's a reason Pell Mell Famous cigarettes, good to look at, good to feel, good to taste and good to smoke. Yes, good, good, good and good. Good. When you change to Pell Mel, you get smoking advantages that are outstanding for Pell Mel's greater length filters the smoke through a much greater distance of Pall Mall's traditionally fine, mellow tobaccos. The result is a smoother, mellower, more satisfying smoke. Four notes that are alike and one that is outstanding. And of America's leading cigarette, one is Outstanding Pell Mell Famous Cigarettes. Outstanding, and they are mild. Now the extra exciting and authentic story of the Case of the Cornered Cat. You are Walter Winchell. Your beat is Broadway. You know, it's flora and fauna. The big shots and bums, champs and chumps, con men and chiselers, cops and chorus girls. The characters who work and play in the neon night. You've had your share of big stories, but there's one big story you give your right arm to get. So would every other newspaper man in the land. So would the New York police. So would the FBI. And one night, back in the summer of 39, you're setting up your regular Sunday evening broadcast when your Girl Friday asks. Anything in that tip we got from Ontario, Mr. Winchell? No, it's a phony, like the others. Seems that everybody thinks he's seen that guy lately. Well, it's the biggest manhunt since the Lindbergh case. What they really see is that $50,000 reward. They can have it, Mr. Winfield. Personally, I wouldn't want to come within 10 miles of that racketeer. And if you ever do, he'll be dead. Very dead. Take this item, Marge. Yes, Mr. Winfield, the underworld character known to his associates as the Cat and to the decent citizens of the United States as public enemy number one, is still in hiding. For two years, this king of the racketeers has managed to elude both the New York police and the FBI. You'll remember that. One after another, by a reign of terror, extortion, violence and murder, the Cat took over the leather, fur, garment and trucking rackets and later muscled in on the narcotics racket. A federal offense. Got that much? Yes. Thank you. Now, an aside from this reporter to the Cat. Here's a little tip for you, cat. The cops have orders to bring you in dead or alive. Got that? Dead or alive. So take a tip from me, cat. Come in and give up quietly if you can. Because if you don't use your head first, you'll come in feet first. A few nights later in the early hours of the a.m. you're sitting alone at a corner table in one of your favorite spots. And then you sleep. A character, come in, look around, and finally head for your table. You don't know him, but you do know his breed, and you tab him as a high class student. I like to talk to you, Winchell. I didn't get the name. I didn't give it to you. I see. Do you mind if I sit down? Yes, thanks. I'll sit down anyway. A little crowded here. What's on your mind? I've been reading your column in the Mirror. Well, so is a friend of mine. He finds it very interesting. Thanks. So what? So this certain friend of mine, Winchell, would like to meet a certain friend of yours. Which one? I've got a lot of friends. The one I'm talking about wakes for the government. You wouldn't mean J. Edgar Hoover? I might. Go on. Do I interest you? You interest him. I thought I would. Okay. Where do we go from here? Winchell, my friend is very anxious to meet your friend. You see, a lot of people around town don't like my friend. They might hate him if they ever met him. That's why he's laying low. So I gathered. But he's had enough, Winchell. He's ready to come out now. Only he wouldn't want to get hyped. You see, the cops are after him on a miterrap. They got their guns ready. Now, the FBI only wants him for a narcotics job. That's why he wants to give up to the FBI and not to the cops. You follow me? I follow you. Okay. Now, here's the proposition. If you could get your friend to guarantee that he wouldn't hate my friend, well, we might arrange a formal introduction. In other words, you want me to act as go between, Is that it? That's it. We produce the merchandise, you deliver it. And what do I do next? Well, if you get that guarantee from J. Edgar Hoover, put it on the air on your radio program tomorrow night. We'll be listening and we'll get in touch with you later. And one more thing, Winchell. Yes? I wouldn't try to double cross my friend if I was you. Don't worry. I haven't any more use for your friend than I have for a snake. But I want the story. I'll put in a call for J. Edgar Hoover in the morning. Well, that's how it shapes up, John. So the Cat wants to come in? That's right, John. Heat's beginning to get him. But he wants to come in alive. And he wants me to broadcast your guarantee that he will if you were to deliver him to me. That's the deal, Walter. It's only fair to warn you. About what? CAT is a dangerous company. Hard to pick. Sure. You want to act as deliberate? Sure, sure. It's my story and I'll stick to it. Now, how about that guarantee, John? All right. You can tell the Cat on the air tonight that if he comes in unarmed and quietly, FBI will guarantee him a safe reception. Thanks, John. Turn on your radio in Washington and listen in. Tonight I won't need any radio order. What do you mean? I'll be in the studio with you in New York when you go on the air tonight. To the Cat. To the Cat, wherever you are. This reporter has a personal message. The FBI will guarantee your safe delivery if you come in unarmed and peacefully. I repeat, grab this reporter's word that the FBI will guarantee your safe delivery if you come in unarmed and peacefully. And to America's public enemy number one. A word of advice from your New York reporter. Better take this offer while it's hot. Later. Maybe. Too late. An item from Hollywood seems the famous movie star. All right, turn it off. Okay, Cat. Cigarette? Oh, sure. Hey, ya, boys. Light? What do you think, Joe? I trust him. The Cat doesn't. Oh, but poor Cat doesn't trust anybody. Never dead. Pays off. Always has. What makes you think he's on a level too? Well, there's his reputation around town. You know Winchell as well as I do. Anyway, he's a newspaperman. And you know those guys. Anything for a story. Think of the odds, boss. Every cop in town has got his gun loaded for you. Wait a minute. He spots you. You don't have to tell me I'm hot, Joe. Oh, I didn't mean anything by it, boss. But you hate Wenchell just now. And Hoover's in town waiting for you to come in on that narcotics wrap. Well, any way you look at it, you're taking a chance. How is Winchell? He double crosses the Cat. You tell him that, Joe. I told him. All right, Joe, make contact. Meanwhile, I'll think it out. Hold up, mister. Wait a minute. Where'd you come from? Out of that doorway, Winchell. I got a message for you from a certain party. What certain party? This Satan party. Heard your broadcast last night. He's thinking a deal over and we'll get to you later. Wait a minute. Watch the. See you later, Winchell. Telephone for you, Mr. Winchell. You can take right here at the table. Oh, thanks, waiter. Hello, Mr. Winchell? Yes, but who is. I got a message for. For you from a party. He's still thinking of coming in through you, but he may change his mind. We'll get in touch with you later. Wait a minute. Who is this? Hello? Hello? Hello. Yeah, Mr. Winchell. Dog club. Oh, thanks, Driver. Yes. Keep the change. Mr. Winchell. Yes, got a message for you from a certain party. He still ain't made up his mind, but he'll contact you tomorrow night. Another message. Now listen, driver, right? If you want to stay healthy, forget my face and the license number of this car. Hey, hold it. Wait a minute. Hello? This Walla Winchell? Yes. I got a message from a second party. But before you go any further, I've got a message from a certain party. A party named J. Edgar Hoover. What's the message? We're tired of this stalling around. It's been three weeks now. If the Cat doesn't come in by tomorrow night, the deal is off. Remember, the cops have been told to bring him in. Dead or alive. Well, Yes, At 7. I'll be there. Yes. Don't try anything. We'll be back in just a moment with tonight's Big Story. Now we return you to our narrator, Barry Kroger. It's Big Story. You, Walter Winchell, have a date. You've got a date with Public enemy Number one at a theater in Yonkers at seven tonight. And this may be the end of the nation's biggest manhunts since the Lindbergh case. Or it may be just the end of your New York reporter, Walter Winchell. You could very well end up looking like a human civ in some gutter or at the bottom of the east river wearing concrete shoes. You don't know. Anyway, before you go, you have another talk with J. Edgar Hoover. Walter, this looks like the showdown. One way or the other. I'm sure of it. John, I wouldn't try to kid you. Cat is dangerous killer taking a chance driving up the Yonkers alone. I know I keep telling myself that. Then I keep telling myself, what a story. What a story. What if you don't meet the Cat tonight? Why? What if you meet a carload of his thugs instead? My figure you're trying to double cross him and this may be a trap to beat you to the punch. You know, John, I think you're trying to talk me out of this. Are you? Let me put it this way. Water. We want the Cap. We want him badly. If you were an officer of the law or an agent of the FBI, you wouldn't even discuss it. You'd keep that appointment as a matter of duty. But I'm a newspaper man. More than that, Walter, you're a friend of mine. And even more than that, you're a private citizen with certain constitutional rights. You don't have to go. Thanks for the out, John, but I'M still in. All right. But there's something you've got to understand. Yes? You'll have to go alone, as arranged. I can't send any of my boys to help you. In the first place, if any of the Cat's gunmen spot any of my agents around, you won't live five minutes. I see. And in the second place? In the second place, that theater in Yonkers is in a busy neighborhood. A lot of innocent people will be on the streets up there. There's gunplay. Some of them might be killed. All right, John. I'll still take the chance. Alone. I'll wait for your phone call. Good luck, Walker. You get into the car, you head uptown. Butterflies are flapping their wings in your stomach as you drive past Van Cortlandt park and into Yonkers. And when you stop for a red light, a big black car drives up beside you. It's filled with hard faced gangsters and they're looking right at you. One of them jumps out and gets into your car. Hold on, Winchell. Don't try to beat that red light. Oh, sorry. I. I was just nervous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And don't try to go through any other red light. We don't want to talk to any cops. Now, you get me? I get you. Okay. Winchell. The lights just changed. Step on it. Where should I go? Just drive and keep your mouth shut. Yes, but if you could just tell me. All right. When shall you ask for it and I'll tell you. We're going for a little ride. Okay. Stop the car here, under that tree. Look, go as I say. Now turn off the ignition. Your headlights, too. What? What are you gonna do now? Just make sure you don't double cross us. Wallet. Windshield. But I touch. Open that door. Want to hear if there's any car coming? No, no car coming. We're alone. All right. Okay, Windshield. Wait a minute. Look, I. Take it easy. Take it easy. Relax. No one's gonna drill you. Just making sure no cops were telling us we're gone. Back to town. To town? Yeah. Remember, you got a date to meet a certain party. Now, listen, I want you to go into a phone booth. I'll wait for you in the car. You call J. Edgar Hoover. Tell him to be at 28th street and Fifth Avenue, Southeast side, at 10:15 tonight. Got it? I got it. And one more thing. Yes? Tell Hoover to be there alone. And tell him not to pack a rot. Did you get Hoover? Yes, he'll be there. Okay. Well, I'll be leaving you Here, Winchell. Now, you go to Madison Square park and stop at 24th Street. Then wait. There. Got it? I've got it. Okay, but before I go, Here, take this. What is it? A rabbit's foot. Give it to the cat. Maybe he'll need it. Or maybe you will. You drive away and cruise downtown and finally, a couple of minutes before 10, you come to Madison Square. You see the light burning on the top of the Metropolitan Life Insurance building and you wonder if you've paid all your premiums up to date in Madison and 24th Street. And just as you roll to a stop, you see a man coming towards your car. He's wearing a mustache, long sideburns, dark glasses and a top coat. Hello, Waller. Hello, Cat. Here's your rabbit's foot. Thanks. Let's go meet your friend. All right. He's at the. I know where he is. I just passed him. Get going. You swing the car around and point it uptown. The man in disguise beside you. Your big story sitting there beside you says nothing. But you know, this is the Cat. A very careless man with a gun. For all you know, he may have one on him now, in his pocket, pointing it at your ribs. Anything can happen between here and 28th Street. Then it does. You stop for the light at 27th. And just as you do, a police cruiser from the 14th Precinct stops beside you and the two cops in it look you over. Your heart twangs like a violin string. You know that 18,000 cops in New York City are looking for the Cat with their guns ready and the man next to you knows it too. I see you have a few friends here, Walter. I was sick giving us the once over. Now, you didn't invite them to our little party, did you, Walter? No, it's a coincidence he just happened to be here. I hope you're right, Walter. I hope they just drive on and don't bother us. I hope so, for your sake. Look, I didn't know there was gonna be any. You're in a very bad position, Walter. Very bad. See, you're at the wheel between those cops and me. If they take an interest. Yeah? Nothing. Wait a minute. The light's changing. That police car is going ahead. It's not going to stop us. I'm glad of that, Walter. I'm very glad of that. You're glad? How do you think I feel? Don't be nervous, Walter. Hey, slow down. We stop at this next corner. Yeah? Yeah. Well, here we are. And there's J. Edgar Hoover in that car. Let's go. And say hello, Oliver. Hello, Cat. Hello, Mr. Hover. Hi. See you two know each other. I've been waiting to meet this gentleman for a long time. Pleasure's all mine. Get in, sir. You too, Walter. All right, Pat. Suppose we take you for a little ride. All right, Walter. Get out. Get out. But, John, this is only 13th Street. The FBI headquarters is down at Foley Square. I know, but I'm driving. Wait a minute, John. You can't do this to me. What about my story? That's just the point. I'm protecting your story. I don't get it. Figure it out, Walter. The news hawks around headquarters see me coming in with you and the cat here. They'll beat you to your own story. And then goodbye, exclusive. Thanks, John. I didn't think of that. Better start looking for a phone, Walter. I'll see you later. You find yourself in a deserted section. Nothing but dark warehouses and stores. No phone. You go over one street and then another. Still no phone. You begin to think that by now J. Edgar Hoover has reached FBI headquarters with a cat. You start to sweat as you imagine the reporters down there taking one look and then diving for their phones to relay the big story. Your big story. You start to run. You run for what seems to be blocks. And then you see an open bar and grill. You rush in and there's a pay phone. And you dial the office. And then. New York Mirror, night desk, Ed Waller. Winchell, listen, give me a rewrite. I just got an exclusive. Page one. Yeah, what? I just turned the cat over to J. Edgar. Hova, hurry up and give me a rewrite. Take it easy, Waller. It's a big story. But not big enough for page one. Not tonight, anyway. What do you mean? Stalin just signed a pact with Hitler. This was your big story. You worried off £6 in getting it. You effected the surrender of America's public enemy number one and thereby save the government and the state $50,000 in reward money. It would have been paid for his capture. And though you didn't make the headlines scream you, Walter Winchell, made this story. And it was a big story after. In just a moment, we'll read you a telegram from Walter Winchell of the New York Daily Mirror with the final outcome of tonight's big story. Now we read you that telegram from Walter Winchell of the New York Daily Mirror. After serving one year in the federal penitentiary on a narcotics charge criminal in tonight's big story was turned over to New York State to stand trial for murder. He was found guilty and died in the electric chair at Sing Sing. Many thanks for tonight's Pall Mall award. Thank you, Mr. Winchell. The makers of Pall Mall Famous Cigarettes are proud to have named you the winner of the Pall Mall $500 award for notable service in the field of journalism. Listen again next week, same time, same station, when pell mell Famous Cigarettes will present another big story. A big story from the pages of the Chicago Daily News byline, Guy Housley. A big story that began when a reporter walked up the path to a suburban home and rang a doorbell. A ring that was never answered. The big story is produced by Bernard J. Proctor and directed by Harry Ingram, with music by Vladimir Szalinski. Tonight's program was written by Max Ehrlich. Your narrator was Barry Kroger. And Ward Wilson played the part of Walter Winchell. All names in tonight's story, except those of Mr. Winchell and Mr. Hoover, were fictishes. But the dramatization was based on a true and authentic case. This is Ernest Chappell speaking for the makers of Pall Mall Famous Cigarettes. Don't forget, friends, to listen to the new comedy hit, the Jack Parr program, heard every Sunday night over most of these same stations in the Jack Benny Time spot. This is NBC, the National Broadcasting Company.
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If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why, hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift. And you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. Welcome back. That stolen guy could be such a pain. Overshadowing Winchell like that. He probably did not appreciate that at all. In all seriousness, this had to be a challenging part for Ward Wilson. While usually the big story featured relatively obscure journalists whose reputation was regional at best, Walter Winchell was on a whole other level. With all due respect to Dorothy Kilgallen, he was much bigger than her and much bigger than nearly everyone in broadcasting or journalism. His broadcasts at this time were top rated. At some points, he was even higher rated than Jack Benny. The fact is that the number of reporters who could pick up the phone and say, hey, J. Edgar, could you come help with this? Was a pretty small universe. So there's a bit more of a sense where Ward Wilson it feels like is trying to do an impersonation or at least evoke this very well known personality rather than playing a character in his own way, as you see with characters like Les Tremaine or John Gibson, who played far less well known journalists and could just kind of go with it in their own way. Now, according to the story behind the Big Story website, this particular case had a lot of details changed, but was based on the capture of Louis Lepke, who was a big part of Murder Incorporated. And Winchell played a really big part in that. And this explains why indeed, if that part actually happened this way, Hoover would have been willing to spend weeks in New York City waiting for Lepke to make up his mind. And of course it would also explain Winchell putting up with as long as he did the sending messengers just to say, yeah, he's still thinking about it. I mean, you have to be some sort of big shot if you're gonna pull that sort of stuff with Winchell. Now, the true story, at least according to Winchell, he made into a commercial recording that was a bestseller and very popular. He told the story completely from his perspective. Now, someone uploaded the record onto YouTube, but it has since been removed. So alas, not available to us. Listener comments and feedback now. And we go over to Spotify where mechanic 66 Comments apparently in this period the use of second person narrative was popular. I personally don't care for it. And of course this references the fact where the narrator, Barry Kroeger, is constantly telling the events as you did this, you went there, this happened to you. I think it's kind of an interesting approach. I'm not going to say good or bad. It does vary a bit on the context. At its core it's an interesting idea, particularly for audio. The idea that in the theater of the mind, you can imagine yourself in the situation or imagine yourself to a degree as the hero. There was that very odd film by Robert Montgomery where the film was shot entirely from the perspective of the detective, in this case Philip Marlowe. So you only really caught him like looking in the mirror or just when his reflection showed up in lady and the Lake. And in a way that was trying to do the sort of thing that you could do with radio. All the time you're walking along with the detective, with the lead character, you are in his or her point of view and you experience what they experience. Now, do you have to use the second person narration to emphasize that? Not really. If you want to imagine yourself or to imagine you as the hero of the story. You can do that without somebody constantly saying you, you, you. And in some cases it's a bit odd. Dragnet, for one, always has this interesting spot where at the start the narrator says, you are a detective sergeant, you are assigned to homicide detail, etc. And then we go forward and Jack Webb is narrating and we are in first person rather than second person. So the second person at the start of the episode doesn't seem to have much of a point in my opinion. Dr. Whodunit Comments Poor John Gibson stuck behind the counter again. Oh well, it's like my sister Edna always says, better to be stuck behind a counter than a fly on the wall or something like that. Well, as I said, these have a bit of a rep company feel and you can play the reporter hero one week and end up either the next week or a few weeks down the line playing some minor role. I haven't gone through extensively all of the scripts, there's around 300 of them and read the cast list. But I'm sure John Gibson got another shot as the lead character in one of these stories as well. Though whether we'll hear it or not, that's another matter. Now it's time to thank our Patreon Supporter of the Day. And I want to thank Artemio, a patreon supporter since October 2021, currently supporting the podcast at the shamus level of $4 or more per month. Thanks so much for your support. That will do it for today. If you're enjoying the podcast, please follow us using your favorite podcast for software and be sure to rate and review the podcast wherever you download it from. We'll be back next Tuesday with another episode of the Big Story, but join us back here tomorrow for Broadway's My.
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Beat, where Pablo Molari Danny from uptown West 109th street, carried one of those handwritten identification cards. Find anything else on him? Not much. Five dollar bill in his wallet, his Saints medallion he's wearing on a chain ring around his neck. That's about all. Now you question the people in the yeah, Danny. Every door no one ever heard of. The kid had nothing to do with him. Didn't want to talk about him. You know, most of them were trying to sleep. The heat, the kids squalling, you know. Yeah, beaten, jawbroken. This bruise on his throat must be the one that killed him. Here, come down here, Danny. What? Take a look at the sign on this door. Hudson Club, Johnny Hammett, President. I guess it's one of those street clubs the kids make up for themselves. This neighborhood's loaded with them. You think what happened to this kid is part of it? Yeah, I think.
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I hope you will be with us then. In the meantime, send your comments to box Thirteenreatdetectives.net Follow us on Twitter at Radio Detectives and check us out on Instagram. Instagram.com from Boise, Idaho, this is your host, Adam Graham, signing off. If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why, hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift. And you can end your day knowing, knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. You're tuned into Auto intelligence live from AutoTrader, where data, tools and your preferences sync to make your car shopping smooth.
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Host: Adam Graham
Original Broadcast: September 17, 1947 (dramatized episode)
Podcast Release Date: December 16, 2025
This episode of "The Great Detectives of Old Time Radio" features an installment of the vintage series The Big Story — "The Case of the Cornered Cat." Host Adam Graham offers background and post-episode analysis, situating the story within real historical events and classic radio drama methods. The main drama, dramatized from true newspaper experiences, recounts how famed columnist Walter Winchell became embroiled in the tense surrender of a notorious racketeer known as "the Cat," with the assistance of FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover.
(Main Content, 04:50–32:20)
Winchell is given cryptic instructions for a secret meet-up at a Yonkers theater.
The night of the handover, Winchell is forced to drive to multiple locations under gangster escort, with explicit threats to remain silent and not "double cross" them.
Tense standoff with "the Cat" himself, disguised and armed.
This episode of The Great Detectives of Old Time Radio delivers both a gripping piece of mid-20th-century crime drama and an insightful discussion about its historical context, style, and relevance. Whether you're a mystery buff, a radio history fan, or new to the world of old time audio dramas, "The Case of the Cornered Cat" is a vibrant mix of real events, dramatized tension, and radio nostalgia.