Podcast Summary: "You Might Also Like: Revisionist History"

The Great Detectives Present Dragnet (Old Time Radio)
Host: Adam Graham
Episode: You Might Also Like: Revisionist History
Release Date: February 15, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of Revisionist History, hosted by Malcolm Gladwell, Rachel Botsman—a lecturer at Oxford University and a renowned expert on trust—joins the conversation to delve deep into the intricate dynamics of trust in modern society. Botsman shares her insights from her latest audiobook, "How to Trust and Be Trusted Intentionally," offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of trust's multifaceted nature.

The Nature of Trust

Rachel Botsman begins the discussion by exploring why trust is a compelling subject. She explains that trust serves as the fundamental "social glue" that holds individuals, groups, teams, and societies together.

"Trust is a belief about how someone will behave or how something will turn out. It's a confident relationship with the unknown."
— Rachel Botsman [03:42]

Botsman distinguishes between two ends of the trust spectrum: manipulating trust for personal gain and repairing trust after it's broken, noting the lack of focus on how trust naturally forms between these extremes.

Common Mistakes in Trust Evaluation

Botsman highlights that while most people trust intuitively, this instinct often leads to poor trust decisions, especially in high-stakes or high-risk situations.

"Most of us trust naturally. It's a very intuitive thing. Most of us do it badly because we rely on intuition and not information."
— Rachel Botsman [03:53]

She identifies three main pitfalls:

1. Speed Over Trust: Rapid decision-making under pressure can undermine trust.
2. Intuition Over Information: Relying solely on gut feelings rather than factual data.
3. Charisma vs. Capability: Valuing confidence and charisma over genuine competence can skew trust evaluations.

Transparency vs. Trust

The conversation shifts to the role of transparency in building trust. Botsman clarifies that while transparency involves disclosing information to provide context, it can sometimes feel like surveillance, which is antithetical to genuine trust.

"Transparency in practice can feel like surveillance. You're trying to get visibility into something, which is the very opposite of trust."
— Rachel Botsman [06:29]

Botsman argues that true trust doesn't require constant oversight or control, contrasting it with mere transparency that often seeks to enforce control rather than build confidence.

Building High-Trust Teams

When addressing leaders aiming to foster high-trust teams, Botsman advises against equating risk reduction with trust enhancement. She emphasizes the importance of:

• Embracing Uncertainty: Allowing teams to operate in unknowns to boost creativity.
• Setting Clear Expectations: Empowering team members by defining clear boundaries and objectives without micromanaging.

"How does this team expand their capacity to be in the unknown and to be in that creative space versus how much of our culture is actually wired to measuring and managing risks."
— Rachel Botsman [10:55]

Personal Anecdote: Trust Gone Wrong

Botsman recounts a personal story about her parents' misplaced trust in a nanny named Doris, who ultimately betrayed their confidence by engaging in fraudulent activities.

"Doris must be confused."
— Rachel Botsman's Father [17:35]

This narrative serves as a cautionary tale about the complexities of trust and the ease with which it can be exploited.

The Science Behind Trust Signals

The discussion delves into the concept of trust signals—cues that influence our trust decisions. Botsman explains that these signals can be superficial, such as appearance or demeanor, which often lead to biased trust evaluations.

"How someone speaks, the questions they ask, who they're with, what they're wearing, and even how they say, hi, how are you?"
— Rachel Botsman [22:10]

She references a study by Lisa D. Bryan from the University of Glasgow, illustrating how facial resemblance can enhance trust, highlighting our tendency to trust what feels familiar.

Overcoming Biases in Trust Decisions

Maria Kournikova, a psychologist and expert in distrust, interjects to challenge the common advice of "trust your gut." She argues that gut feelings are unreliable as they are often based on subconscious biases.

"Trusting your gut. I hate that phrase, and I think it's very misleading and very bad advice."
— Maria Kournikova [34:31]

Botsman concurs, proposing the concept of a trust pause—a deliberate hesitation to evaluate trust decisions more thoughtfully.

"A trust pause is a healthy hesitation where we question if a person, a problem, product, or piece of information is worthy of our trust."
— Rachel Botsman [35:08]

Practical Tools for Better Trust Decisions

Botsman introduces actionable strategies to improve trust evaluations:

1. Awareness of Trust Signals: Recognize which signals you're responding to, especially those based on familiarity.
2. Avoiding Convenience Traps: Ensure that the ease of a decision doesn't override necessary trust considerations.
3. Utilizing Trust Pauses: Take time to verify information and avoid hasty decisions driven by intuition alone.

"If you find yourself wanting to make a trust decision quickly from your gut, take a trust pause and ask yourself the following..."
— Rachel Botsman [37:17]

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Botsman summarizing the key takeaways for effectively giving trust:

1. Be Mindful of Trust Signals: Understand the influence of familiar cues.
2. Recognize Convenience Biases: Ensure decisions aren't swayed by what's easy.
3. Reframe Gut Feelings: Use intuition as a guide, not the sole decision-maker.
4. Embrace Deliberate Trust Building: Slow down to gather necessary information.

Botsman leaves listeners with a provocative question to ponder for the next chapter:

"How do you get someone else to trust you?"
— Rachel Botsman [43:10]

Notable Quotes

• "Trust is a belief about how someone will behave or how something will turn out. It's a confident relationship with the unknown."
  — Rachel Botsman [03:42]

• "Most of us trust naturally. It's a very intuitive thing. Most of us do it badly because we rely on intuition and not information."
  — Rachel Botsman [03:53]

• "Transparency in practice can feel like surveillance. You're trying to get visibility into something, which is the very opposite of trust."
  — Rachel Botsman [06:29]

• "A trust pause is a healthy hesitation where we question if a person, a problem, product, or piece of information is worthy of our trust."
  — Rachel Botsman [35:08]

• "Trusting your gut. I hate that phrase, and I think it's very misleading and very bad advice."
  — Maria Kournikova [34:31]

Final Thoughts

This episode of Revisionist History provides a profound exploration of trust, challenging conventional wisdom and offering practical tools for both individuals and leaders. By understanding the nuances of trust signals and the importance of deliberate decision-making, listeners are equipped to foster more genuine and resilient trust relationships in their personal and professional lives.