Episode Summary: Does My Spouse Really Want to Change?

The Grounded Union Podcast
Hosts: Brandon and Caitlyn Doerksen
Air Date: August 29, 2025

Main Theme / Purpose

Brandon and Caitlyn Doerksen examine one of the most challenging and frequently asked questions in marriage recovery: How can I know if my spouse truly wants to change? Drawing deeply from their own story of near-divorce, cycles of broken trust, and genuine transformation, they break down real, practical markers of willingness to change—not just words, but actions and attitudes. The episode is a blend of storytelling, hard-earned wisdom, and actionable strategies for couples seeking radical healing and deeper union.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Pain & Fear Dynamic: When Do People Really Change?

• The threshold for change: “When the pain of staying is greater than the fear of leaving, that’s when we ultimately have divorce.” (Brandon, 01:40)

  • Many couples wait until the pain is overwhelming before taking change seriously.
  • Both partners are already hurting—so the choice is about how to move forward versus remaining stuck.

• Healing requires not incremental improvement, but radical engagement in honest, often painful process: “If your relationship’s struggling, you’re already in pain...so is it worth it?” (Brandon, 02:13)

Addictions, Betrayal, and the Truth About Commitment

• The Doerksens share their repetitive five-year cycle: repeated lying, attempts at change, and returns to old patterns around internet use and secrecy.

• Two response patterns in the spouse who is caught:

  • Passivity: helplessness, victim mentality, saying “I can’t change, I’ve tried everything” (Brandon, 03:38)
  • Defensiveness: anger, projection, rationalizing (“You’ve done bad things too…you deserved this”), shifting focus away from their own behavior (Brandon, 04:29)

• Key takeaway: Both passivity and defensiveness indicate that the spouse is not yet ready to change, instead revealing deeply ingrained mindsets.

Why Standard Advice Fails—and What Actually Shifts the Marriage

• Conventional advice isn't enough: Despite years of following recommendations from “churches, counselors, mentors… we did that for so many years… yet we were still on the same loop, still cycling.” (Caitlyn, 05:58)
• The unique breakthrough: Stop taking advice from people who don’t have what you want. “How are they going to be able to take you where they have not yet gone themselves?” (Caitlyn, 07:03)

The “Line in the Sand” and the Power of Radical Transparency

• Turning Point (September 2019): Caitlyn hit her breaking point—no more hiddenness, no more partial honesty, no more “playing at” healing.
• The Doerksens committed to no secrecy: “I want to try the route with no tools and just … that we keep nothing secret from each other anymore. Absolutely nothing hidden anymore.” (Caitlyn, 09:09)
• Radical behavioral change: Brandon removed social media, TV, and almost all forms of digital consumption as a demonstration of seriousness in healing and openness. (Caitlyn, 10:14)
• Willingness to eliminate distractions is a “marker” for genuine commitment.

The Denial Structure: Why Change Takes Time

• Denial doesn’t evaporate overnight: “Our counselor said … eight months is … the timeframe for how it takes to break down a denial structure.” (Caitlyn, 12:19)
• This process can be shortened by willingness or prolonged indefinitely by avoidance.
• Advisory: If you’re tempted to use this as an excuse to delay (“See, babe, this is why I keep reverting back”), DON’T. Use it as motivation to dig deeper. (Caitlyn, 12:45)

What Willingness Looks Like—Actions Speak Louder Than Words

• Signs of change: Willingness to put away the phone, eliminate entertainment, regularly participate in recovery or communities, tolerate discomfort.
• “What really shows you’re ready to change is when your phone stays put away, the TV stays turned off, … you look [your spouse] in the eyes … and say, ‘Let’s talk about what we talked about in counseling earlier today.’” (Brandon, 15:00)
• The most important marker: daily effort and follow-through, not just one-time declarations or weekend intensives.

Sharing EVERYTHING—Big and Small

• The turning point of healing: Full openness, not just about major betrayals (porn, affairs), but all “little secrets”—glances, thoughts, moments of attraction.
• “When I saw Brandon begin to get uncomfortable and come to me and say, ‘Yeah, I noticed that magazine when I walked by. I don’t want to notice that anymore,’ … it was undeniable my husband was willing and ready to change.” (Caitlyn, 20:33)
• This practice of radical vulnerability is “not for social media, not for a group, but for your spouse alone.” (Caitlyn, 21:18)

Real Change vs. Temporary Compliance

• Expect an ebb and flow—sometimes eager, sometimes afraid.
• If your spouse refuses transparency or vulnerability and will “not come clean,” they are showing you they’re not ready for transformation. (Caitlyn, 21:59-22:45)
• The process means tolerating mutual discomfort and supporting each other as old, protective habits are dismantled.

How Long Does Change Take? Mindset Over Timeline

• “A clear attitude of a [person] that’s ready to change is one that does not actually need to know the timeline. I don’t need to know how long … I will need to have these conversations. I don’t know, and … the answer does not matter.” (Brandon, 24:00)
• Focus on the vision and values you want for your marriage. Remove the sense of “I’ll do this until…” and replace it with: “I’ll do it as long as necessary for union.” (Brandon, 28:18)

Radical Responsibility and Drawing Boundaries

• If a spouse remains entrenched in secrecy, denial, and addictive behaviors and explicitly refuses to change: the Doerksens argue, “you’re already divorced in energy.” (Caitlyn, 30:20)
• Non-negotiables: “Draw the line in the sand and say, that doesn’t work for me anymore. I’m not staying in this marriage for the kids, for the money, just because I’m supposed to. … We’re moving towards intimacy and connection every single day. This is actual union.” (Caitlyn, 32:17)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “When the pain of staying is greater than the fear of leaving, that’s when we ultimately have divorce.”
  — Brandon (01:40)

• “How are they going to be able to take you where they have not yet gone themselves?”
  — Caitlyn (07:03)

• “The biggest thing that marked my understanding and my trust and my safety for knowing that Brandon was willing to change was that he was willing eventually… to finally dump the bags that he’d been holding all these years… all the little secrets.”
  — Caitlyn (19:50–20:53)

• “When you remove the timeline… and instead you shift your focus … that’s what creates change. This is what you identify in your spouse: I don’t care how long it takes, I don’t care how uncomfortable I will get. When you begin to see that shared focus… That’s when you know you’re both in.”
  — Brandon (26:26)

• “We’re not pro-divorce, we’re pro-union. That’s the whole purpose of our mission and message and hope.”
  — Caitlyn (29:53)

• “If your spouse is saying, ‘I’m good, we’re good,’ you have your moment to draw the line in the sand and say, that doesn’t work for me anymore.”
  — Caitlyn (32:17)

• “Take the initiative, take the action to continue to try new things and get uncomfortable for the vision of your union that you want to create.”
  — Brandon (35:30)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:00] – Defining the burning question: “Does my spouse really want to change?”
• [01:34] – The pain boundary and why people decide to stay or leave.
• [03:10] – Honesty about patterns: passivity and defensiveness after betrayal.
• [05:50] – Why all the “right” tools and advice aren’t enough.
• [07:00] – The necessity of only seeking guidance from those who have what you want.
• [09:09] – Radically eliminating secrecy and what that looks like.
• [10:14] – Example of practical behavioral changes (removing all distractions).
• [12:19] – Understanding and breaking down denial structures (8-month estimate).
• [15:00] – What true willingness looks like: presence and daily commitment.
• [17:36] – Actions aligning with words, the importance of small acts of transparency.
• [19:50] – Caitlyn describes the “turning point” of unlimited openness.
• [24:00] – Letting go of the need for a timeline, committing to process.
• [28:26] – When both spouses' desire for healing becomes synced.
• [30:20] – “Divorced in energy”—the consequences of ongoing secrecy and refusal to change.
• [32:17] – Drawing healthy boundaries and the necessity of standards.
• [34:16] – Closing encouragement and the power of vision-based change.

Conclusion & Takeaways

• Lasting change in marriage isn’t about a single event or discovery, but a sustained, honest, and sometimes uncomfortable commitment to radical openness, daily effort, and mutual vision for true union.
• Words are only a starting point—what matters is a willingness to change routines, bear discomfort, share everything, and refuse to put a timeline on growth.
• Both spouses must be “in”—if one refuses, the marriage may persist on paper but is fundamentally disconnected.
• The journey is demanding but transformative; once union is restored, the rewards touch every area of life.

For next steps, listeners are encouraged to revisit related episodes on healing betrayal and to draw their own “line in the sand” for authentic, lasting marital change.