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I’ve Had 8 Physical Affairs - The Grounded Union Podcast | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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I’ve Had 8 Physical Affairs

The Grounded Union Podcast

Fri Jan 09 2026

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Grounded Union Podcast

Episode: I’ve Had 8 Physical Affairs
Hosts: Brandon & Caitlyn Doerksen
Guests: Russell & Kim
Air Date: January 9, 2026

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode features an unflinchingly honest conversation with Russell and Kim, a couple navigating the aftermath of repeated infidelity over their 38-year relationship (32 years married). The discussion centers on the complex roots of Russell’s behavior, the impact on their marriage, the enduring pain for Kim, and the path toward authentic healing. Through compassionate yet direct coaching from hosts Brandon and counselor Sam, the episode explores the process of moving from secrecy and shame to ownership, honesty, and—as the Grounded Union Podcast champions—real, embodied intimacy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Scope of Infidelity

[00:00–05:24]

Russell admits to at least eight physical affairs, most with strangers during work trips, one long-term affair, and another with a friend while engaged.
He’s been unfaithful regularly over the last 23 years and highlights a two-year period of sobriety from affairs, but displays fear of repeat behavior.
Russell states he isn’t addicted to pornography, though he engaged with “soft porn” in college.

Notable Quote:
"Somebody’s offered me a cigar, I can say no. Somebody offered me a drink, I can say no. But meet some stranger that wants to have sex with me, and I have a hard time saying no."
— Russell [04:01]

2. Kim’s Perspective: Hopeful but Guarded

[01:27–13:09]

Kim describes herself as “hopeful but guarded,” having remained steadfast through cycles of betrayal.
Her faith and commitment have been anchor points, yet she expresses deep exhaustion and mistrust:
"It's just been a vicious cycle... No less than eight times that I'm aware of in the last 23 years." [01:55]
Kim feels manipulated and deceived, highlighting the emotional toll and expressing that she no longer fully trusts Russell.

Notable Quote:
"I can't trust anything he says or does because I’ve spent so many years not knowing something’s right, not understanding until much later why it wasn’t right."
— Kim [09:08]

3. Unpacking the Roots: Trauma, Shame, and Denial

[05:24–16:54]

Russell grew up in a devout, strict Southern Baptist family, his father a preacher.
He discloses being molested by a youth pastor for two years as a teenager—a truth he only recently began to process.
Russell’s emotional language is steeped in shame, guilt, and self-loathing; he struggles to identify “why” he acted out, often defaulting to “I don’t know.”
Counselor Sam identifies major “missing puzzle pieces” and encourages Russell to probe deeper, challenging his denial structures and self-deception.

Notable Quote:
"I'm ashamed that I have done things that go completely against the way I was taught. And I don’t understand why... I want to own this."
— Russell [04:01]

[Counselor Sam:]
"You have to want to see everything clearly. The number one thing that keeps you from seeing clearly is your denial structure."
— Sam [16:54]

4. The Pattern of Hiding and the Challenge of Full Disclosure

[16:54–29:06]

Kim and Sam question the completeness of Russell’s story, naming inconsistencies and highlighting likely unacknowledged behaviors.
The dynamic of Russell’s continued communication with women and putting himself in risky situations (e.g., inviting another woman to dinner for his birthday) is discussed.
Kim points out that Russell is adept at “leaving out parts”—he admits truth only when directly confronted.

Notable Quote:
"He admittedly and knowingly left out other parts... He knows exactly how he gets himself in these situations. He wasn’t in the hotel room calling his wife or kids to talk. He was out in places he shouldn't have been, doing things he shouldn't have been doing."
— Kim [23:10]

The hosts and Sam press Russell to shift from “I don’t know” to “I want to see why”—shifting from denial to curiosity and responsibility.
Russell acknowledges a lifelong habit of “seeing what he could get away with,” tracing it to childhood.

5. The Necessity of Radical Ownership and Internal Healing

[29:06–39:00]

Sam and Brandon underscore that healing requires radical honesty with oneself first; partner and family healing will flow from this core.
The conversation emphasizes letting go of people-pleasing or trying to manage outcomes—Russell must heal for himself, not just to keep Kim or his family.
They affirm the danger of choosing the seemingly "easier" path of keeping secrets versus the liberation that radical honesty would bring.

Notable Quotes:
"The only thing making it difficult is myself, is my denial structure."
— Sam [39:00]
"Would you still want to heal if everyone else left you? Doing it for everyone else hasn’t gotten you anywhere. You need this no matter who’s around you."
— Brandon [36:11]

6. The Path Forward: Practical Steps & Commitment to Change

[44:46–46:53]

At the hosts' urging, Russell and Kim have discontinued social media and television as part of a “detox,” focusing instead on connection and self-exploration (e.g., walks, conversation, Christian music).
They’re prompted to continue eliminating distractions that undermine the work of self-examination and relational repair.
The episode ends with the hope that Russell will commit to this path—embracing uncomfortable self-awareness for the sake of true intimacy, vibrancy, and possibly, the survival of their marriage.

Memorable Closing Moments:
"I want an email a year from now of you being happily married or happily separated, meaning Kim’s finally getting freedom... but I’m guessing that you’re going to dive into this."
— Brandon [46:36]

Timestamps for Key Segments

Russell outlines the scope of affairs: [00:00–03:18]
Kim describes her pain/journey: [01:27–09:08]
Russell’s history & disclosure of abuse: [03:54–05:24]
Counselor Sam on denial and unconscious patterns: [16:54–24:11]
Confrontation on incomplete truth/missing pieces: [23:10–27:27]
Why radical honesty is essential: [29:06–39:00]
Moving from denial to intention in healing: [39:00–44:46]
Practical detox steps/next actions: [44:46–46:53]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Brandon to Russell:
"Even though your soul might be crying out saying, I’m not worthy of love... Just look to your side and it’s like, whoa, she’s still here. Why is she still here? Something about you she’s willing to fight for." [01:59]
Kim on trust:
"He can be very manipulative with his words... I can’t trust anything he says or does because I’ve spent so many years not knowing something’s right, not understanding until much later why it wasn’t right." [09:08]
Sam on healing:
"The number one thing keeping you from seeing clearly is your denial structure... When you live in denial, you lie to yourself first." [16:54]
Brandon on self-motivation:
"Would you still want healing if everybody else left you? ... This isn’t for acceptance or rejection. This is because you want to get to the bottom of this virus that’s been killing you your whole life." [36:11]

Episode Tone & Atmosphere

Raw, direct, and transformative: The hosts and counselor maintain a gentle but unsparing focus on exposing denial and calling forth true responsibility.
Compassionate but tough love: Both hosts and Kim are unwavering in pressing for truth, with space for pain and shame without shaming.
Hopeful: While Kim stands at her limit, the conversation offers genuine hope for profound transformation, not just survival.
Actionable and reflective: Practical steps and soul-searching questions lead the couple toward the possibility of a new kind of honest, connected union.

For listeners unfamiliar with the show or this couple, this episode offers a window into the challenging, messy—but potentially redemptive—work of healing a marriage marked by profound betrayal. The central message: Only radical honesty and intentional self-exploration can thaw decades-old denial and unlock a new chapter of union and intimacy.

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Transcript

Russell (0:00)

It was physical affairs. I traveled a lot and there were some one night stands with strangers and there was one while we were engaged, before we even got married. It was one that I stayed with for over two years, but the rest were strangers.

Host Brandon (0:12)

I want to welcome you guys back to season three of the Grounded Union podcast where we're talking with couples working through the healing process, going through the details, going through sometimes the valleys to get up onto the mountain, to get back to a connected state. Today we're talking with Russell and Kim here on a zoom call. You cannot see them. We get the privilege of talking with them. But you just get to hear the audio from, from our conversation as we go back and forth. I hope you glean something from our conversation today with Russell and Kim. Russell and Kim, thank you guys for joining us. Could you give us a quick snapshot of where you are right now and what healing looks like for your relationship?

Russell (0:45)

Well, where we are just north of Atlanta, Georgia. It's noon here, but we just met and started dating. We're thinking about getting married, actually. We were high school sweethearts before you were born. We've been together 38 years. We've been married since 93. Like to say it's all been great, but kids came and I kept focusing on my career and I don't know, it just seems we, we drifted and now the kids are gone and trying to reconnect.

Host Brandon (1:08)

Is there anything else you'd want to add to that before we, we have. Kim. Kim, share a little bit with us.

Russell (1:12)

I think you know from me being in the, in the weekly every week and I've shared before that I haven't been faithful, that's been very damaging to our relationship.

Host Brandon (1:20)

Thank you for, for sharing that with us, Russell. Kim, where is the, where's the pain? And, and where are you currently in the relationship?

Kim (1:27)

Hopeful but guarded. It's just been a long road. I mean, yeah, we've been married for 32 years and together six more than that. But I never drifted. I was steadfast. I homeschooled our kids. You know, I was there. Always trying to bring him back to where he should be, priorities and whatnot. But it's just been a vicious cycle.

Host Brandon (1:45)

So when you say cycle, has there been multiple instances of the infidelity and maybe give us a little more detail so we understand what that, what that looks like.

Counselor Sam (6:32)

We're going to help you understand why. I just like to gain a little more information. And I think Brandon's got something great to say. I think I want to affirm that this story. We're going to go. We'll go back and we'll trace some more stories here. The story that you're sharing of being molested as a teenager 100% impacts every decision you make moving forward until. Which sounds like it's only been a recent awareness, until you become awareness of that or aware of that situation, of that story, choose to recognize it and, and heal from that. Then it's like, it's almost like this puzzle piece, right? Like picture a puzzle that's like, have you ever done a puzzle? And you're like, oh, my gosh, I'm just missing this one piece and you can't finish the entire puzzle, and it just bothers you and bothers you and bothers you, right? These are pieces of your story that are like floating, missing puzzle pie. The core of who you are doesn't really feel complete because you've left all these puzzle pieces roaming around. This is why we talk so much about exploring your story. You have to be able to grab that puzzle piece and look at it and put it into the puzzle of your entire life. Because when it gets in there, you see the full picture, right? Then you're like, oh, because I've heard you say a lot. I don't understand why. I don't. This wasn't how I was raised. If you listen to your languaging a lot too, like you used to, you know the phrase, I don't deserve her, I'm ashamed. It almost. I'm sensing a lot of shame here, maybe even a lot of shame and guilt about how your parents could have perceived you as, as you had described them, you know, being pastors and religious leaders, you kind of growing up into that. That culture, and then now paired with a wife who stayed by your side, who's loving and understanding, you're kind of in this. This little mix of feeling ashamed, feeling guilt. And so as we navigate the rest of the podcast, become aware of the word. This is a lot of what you're here hearing us teach inside the app. Become aware of the languaging and the words that you're using of like, okay, you know, how can I be fully responsible for all of my life and all of my story? Which means that I'm fully responsible for all of the healing that I will then create in my marriage. And that's going to completely transform the way that you approach all of this and even speak. Because as I'm asking questions, which obviously some of this maybe feels slightly less natural. And Kim can maybe affirm if this is always how you answer questions or if this is just on this format. Sometimes when asking questions, it almost feels like we're going like this. Kim, do you feel like when you're trying to understand his story, do you feel like you're kind of trying to, like, pull it out of him?

Counselor Sam (9:23)

Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I think that gives a lot of context and understanding because I'm noticing that in, you know, 20ish minutes here, however many minutes we've been, we've been chatting together, so I can only imagine what 32 years of that feels like. So, you know, as we explore some more, you know, we can kind of even get into some practicing of how can we get into an emotional posture, a position where, Russell, you're like, I want to see why. Instead of saying, I don't understand why, I don't understand why I did this, I want to see why I did this. Does this make sense? We talked about this a lot on the last episode. If you just keep saying, I don't know why, I don't know why I did this, I just don't understand, then your denial structure, your brain is going to be like, oh, he doesn't know why. That's fine. I don't need to tell him where. If you go, I want to see why your brain's gonna go, all right, Russell, let me dump it on you. Here's why. Here's the memories, here's the stories, here's the situations. And then Kim's gonna look and go, whoa, that was my husband, who I thought was deceitful, who was deceitful for 32 years. And look at him. He actually wants to explore his story with eagerness. He wants to see clearly. Because there's only one person who can see Russell's story clearly, and that's you, Russell. And if you want to, then see that story clearly and bring that to Kim in union as you've united your souls together for three decades and known each other for almost four decades. That's more than my lifetime. That's absolutely incredible. And yet at the same time, that's worthy of being like, whoa, I want to advance into a whole new level of intimacy for the next 40 plus years that you're going to be together, because up until now, you haven't even experienced intimacy together because she hasn't been able to see into you. So as we're. As we're talking through this, it's like, Russell, you're deciding, do I actually want to see for myself who I am, who I've been, the decisions I've made, and do I want to heal that and bring that into my marriage to be seen, to experience intimacy?

Counselor Sam (16:54)

Then we go into having sex together, and then we go into eight is what you're calling it. Eight people that you've now had sex with in 32 years. So that would be pretty sporadic over the course of 32 years. And then you're saying there's no other unwanted sexual behavior. And what I want to propose here is that that feels like maybe Brandon will say something with this, too. That, to me, feels like an incomplete story, which I'm not wanting to sit over here across the computer and say, russell, you're lying, because that's not really. I know I can assume. Assume what I think is going on here, which is that you haven't hit this pivotal moment where you're like, I want to see it all. So right now you can see the top of the iceberg. We say this all the time. The top of the iceberg is these. These affairs that are really clear in your conscious mind right now. The bottom of the iceberg you're not choosing to see yet. And I can hear in your languaging, Kim, can feel it in your demeanor. Oh, here's the other piece of the puzzle that's a little confusing is someone you're saying that it's been two years with without having acted out an affair, and then you're saying you have no other sexual addictions. Right. Yet there's still so much of a rift between the two of you guys. It's clear that you have a history of being together. And then it's also clear that there's not a lot of love, connection and intimacy in the union. So for someone who hasn't acted out in two years, yet is also feeling you don't feel free, like you said, you're kind of like, I don't know if I would choose. If I wouldn't choose that. There's major missing pieces to the puzzle here. So there's. There's a lot of what I would call red flags, a lot of what I would call under the iceberg situations, a lot of what I would call missing pieces to the puzzle. So you'll always actually be unsure of why you did what you did until you see the whole puzzle. Right? And you can trick yourself. That's actually a strategy. It is a complete strategy to not want to see everything so that the puzzle piece stays all disconnected at your core. You do Want to see who you are at your core, you do want to heal your marriage. I can tell. I can tell that at the core that you want to see the truth. And so what I'm revealing to you, not because I'm saying you're not telling the truth, What I'm helping. I'm almost piercing through the ice right there and going, whoa. Just so you know, there's a lot more that you can see. There's a lot more that your subconscious mind can bring up for you to fill in all these gaps and to fill in these puzzle pieces. And then you won't be asking why anymore. You won't be asking how. You'll be like, oh, here's why. Here's what's been going on. Here's why I don't feel free. Here's the stories. Here's all this world of things I've done that I haven't wanted to see. It's all in there. It can all be accessed and it can all be seen. You have to want it and allow it. And I can tell to your core that you want to be free. And potentially, there hasn't been anyone that said, hey, the path to your freedom is seeing everything clearly. And the number one thing. I say this every time. I'll say it in every episode, everywhere. The number one thing that keeps you from seeing clearly is your denial structure. And the number one way to break down your denial structure is by saying, I am safe to see all of this clearly. I am safe for every memory to surface, for everything to come out so that I can be aware myself. Because when we live in denial, we lie to ourselves first. How do I know all this? I watched this happen. I was also married to an extremely deceitful man who told me I don't look at anything online. I don't objectify women outside. I don't scroll on social media and see all these images that are provocative. And I don't do this, and I don't do that. And then years into our marriage, what do I catch him doing? All the exact things he told me he'd never done. And then even then, I catch him doing some of these things, and it's like, oh, don't worry, though. I still don't do any of these things over here, right? Then three days later, I find out, oh, one of those things. He's still telling me. He never does. He still does. We'll go a little bit more. Oh, he's telling me another thing he told me he would never do or never had done that. He does. How was he able to do that? Because he had lied and told himself a certain story. He. We could even. We don't even have to call it lying. He had taken these situations and filtered it through a certain narrative so that when I would ask a certain question or when he would think about being honest, it's like, oh, none of those situations fit into this category. Right. That can't be what they're talking about. That can't be what they're describing. Because even if you saw. I asked you two times if you had seen pornography, if I kept asking you a couple different times in a couple of different ways, I could get some more stories out of you. I know it. Because I asked you a certain way, and there was only the story at 5. I asked you a slightly different way, and I got one more story, you know, you said 25 years ago. So what that shows me there is if I'm. If I want to interrogate you, which I don't, That I could crack open a little bit of your iceberg. Kim doesn't want to interrogate you either, because that is not fulfilling to the union. What happens here is when Russell says, I want to see it all. The iceberg. Iceberg thaws out. That's what the embodiment is. That big ice tower you've built. It thaws out, and everything underneath there can surface. And inside that might feel terrifying. And that's okay. That. That feels terrifying. It is. Brandon used to say this all the time. Maybe you can speak to it. He used to be like, I had no idea I was even lying to myself about all of these things, you know? And when you wake up to that reality, you experience a little bit of shock. Like, whoa, There was this whole world I'd been keeping from myself to keep myself safe. Now I'm realizing it doesn't keep me safe. Kim's saying she's had her fill. She's fed up. She's done right. So lying and hiding and keeping these things at bay isn't going to keep you safe. It's kept you safe up. The appearance of safety for 32 years. Now you've come to this pivotal, incredible moment where you get to say, whoa, I'm not choosing to hide this from myself anymore. I'm choosing to open myself up and tell myself I'm safe to thaw out the ice so that I can see everything clearly.

Counselor Sam (29:09)

Feel like it happened to you. See, because if you go to the bar and go, I'm just trying to make friends here. This woman just came up, started hitting on me and it's all her fault. I don't know how my penis got inside of her vagina. All of this was forced upon me, which we could. We. Everything links back. That's why you have to look at the beginning of your sexual experience. I can't get much from you though, because from five to, let's say, 15, 10 years, a 10 year gap. There's not a 10 year gap. There's sexual encounters or things you sought out or saw in that time. You just haven't become aware of them through the iceberg yet. So you did have an experience that you did not want that did happen to you. And so now in these situations where you're almost posing them to recreate a situation that's very, very similar to that one. And if we even got into the detail, I won't. This is something I would advise that you explore is if we got into the detail of that story of abuse, it's possible that there's actually a lot of similarities to these affairs that you have then acted out in. Like one story we've shared on earlier episodes is a friend of ours. He was abused at his neighbor's house receiving what he thought was going to be a massage. He ended up getting more than a massage. Fast forward, he hadn't healed from that situation, goes into marriage and starts going to massage parlors and getting more than a massage. It wasn't until he had a conversation with Brandon that he realized the parallel there. Oh, I have this unhealed trauma of abuse where I got. I thought I was going to get a massage as a child from a safe person, ended up getting abused. Now I'm recreating that situation in the same exact ways. So your story, you're. You're giving little bits of your story and we're seeing little glimpses here. And we could run with some of that yet. I want to spend this hour making you aware of there's way more pieces to the story here. So I could take some of your story of like, okay, you grew up in a rigid child, a rigid home. Sounds like you had loving, intentional parents yet rigid home. You wanted to try to get away from stuff. So. Yep, you even know this. So now you're trying to do that. But I'm going to say there's way more here even. There's way deeper layers. That's this. If you're willing to tell me that and you're barely willing to tell us anything, then I know there's way more to be explored. So I don't want to do you a disservice and focus on these things that you are revealing to me. Those are great. Those are amazing that you've brought those up and you've brought them out. And what I want to tell you is that there's so much more and it's not a. Okay, maybe there's more. And I know that you know right now more things. I know that they're sitting in there. I know that they're coming to mind. I know that things that can come up and out, even these situations that Kim knows about that she's talking about recently. I'm thinking here that there's this two, two year gap where you slept with someone and then now you guys have been all fine and Kim's sharing though these couple of other stories. So there's. There's more stuff like this that wants to come out and be surfaced. And the more you realize that's where my healing is, you don't even have to ask why I told I your how. I told you why. And how. Why you haven't been able to get free from acting out in this way is because there's pieces of the puzzle you haven't chosen to see. How can you never feel like you want to go to the bar, drink and have female friends that you sleep with is through seeing your entire story clearly and bringing this to Kim so that you can heal together.

Host Brandon (36:13)

Then I think what we start with is that place. We actually don't know if Kim will stay. She's already done. She's already been through a lot. We don't know if your kids. If they. You don't have to go tell them everything, but we don't know what they'll think about you if more comes out or if. Or if Kim leaves you. We don't know if whatever may come. So ultimately, you're not going to do this for acceptance from your family or your wife. You would never choose to just try to heal from things that are. We'll call them, very damaging. You don't do it to hope that they love you in return. Russell, your greatest act of love is for yourself. To say, you know what? I've been dying a slow death for 30, 40 years, where I've tolerated living in this way that's killing me and killing everyone around me. So you're not going to do this for them. I want you to do this for Kim. I want you to do it for your kids. And at some point, that will happen. But you got to recognize, like, you need this no matter who's around you, you. So therefore, this isn't for acceptance or rejection. This is because you want to get to the bottom of this virus that's been killing you your whole life. And your ability to heal is your ability to see it. And like you said, when you sit with it, you see it. So when you feel that vortex of shame of, what if they leave me? What if they catch me? I want you to really sit in that feeling. I want you to amplify that feeling and say, yes, they've already caught me. Kim's already caught you. She's a smart woman. She's going to keep catching you. That's not going to change. She's done, though. She doesn't feel like doing that anymore. You don't want to drag her along doing that anymore. So instead of worrying about, what if they catch me, look at yourself in the mirror, say, I've been caught. This is good. I don't have to live this way anymore. I just need to see it. So when you. When you're in that. That battle with yourself of like, I don't want to see it, say, yes, I do. The more I see, the more I can heal. Russell, everything you choose to see in this next few weeks, days and months, what you choose to see, what you choose to take ownership for, what you choose to heal from will no longer impact you in the future. But what you choose to suppress, to stuff down and say, can we just move on? You're back at the bar, you're back in a hotel room, you're back in LinkedIn, messaging somebody. You're lying to yourself. You're not actively engaging in life from the way you want to be. So seeing is they say seeing is believing. Seeing is healing. So, Russell, everything that comes up, that's like, don't look at that, flip over the stone, open it up the door, say, I do want to see this. Kim already sees it. We already see it. We hardly know you, and we can see that it's killing you. And we want you to live a long, prosperous, healthy life. And we want you and Kim to experience intimacy for the first time that's genuine and there's. There's no more secrets under the rug. So, Russell, you're already a part of the app. I want you to dive into the Grounded intimacy program in the app. We'll send you a follow up email off air. We'll send you the steps to take. What you've got to do is do this for you, because doing it for everybody else hasn't gotten you anywhere. Think about that, okay? I'll answer a couple questions. I'll go to a couple of counseling sessions. I'll go to the altar and pray. You're doing it for everybody else. If you do it for you, you can actually go the distance because you'll. You'll begin to see it. And you'll be like, man, man, I'm ready to see it.

Counselor Sam (39:00)

I want to bring up two final thoughts here because you had said, circling back to this, you had said it would feel easier if everyone would just leave me alone and stop talking about it. And we already identified, right, that you actually don't feel great in your body right now. You don't feel alive. You don't feel vibrant. Your marriage doesn't feel alive and vibrant. Right? So I like making really simple truths stand out. So the truth is not actually that you. That's not actually true. You don't actually want everyone to leave you alone because you don't want to live life this way anymore. So to say that that would be easier is actually false. It appears easier, right? And you've been doing a lot of things that appear easier. And so a lot of this is coming back and thinking through that. Like, does that actually feel easier for me to hold so many lies to live feeling dead in my own body. To live feeling disconnected to my wife. To live feeling disconnected to my kids. The more I'm talking, we're all thinking, wow, that sounds terrible. That doesn't sound easy. Right? Right. Now let me paint this picture for you. You get everything out, you see everything, and you bring that to your wife. You don't even have to tell your kids about these things. You don't even need to Tell your pastor. All I recommend is telling the one who you united your soul with 32 years ago. Guess what? When you clean that up, the ripple effect directly impacts your children. You don't even need to tell them I messed up and all the. If you want to, you can. They'll see a different man because a man that no longer hides and lies from himself. A man who has a unified, intimate, conn. Connected marriage. People will see that from a distance. How do I know this? Because this is what happens to us. People will see that from a distance and go, whoa, they've got something incredible going on. Your children. They've watched you be married their entire life. Your kids are older. They're 28, 25 plus, like 25 years of their life. They've watched your marriage suffer. Do you think if they watch the next 25 years, the next 30 years, 40 years of your marriage thriving, you wouldn't even have to say anything that has a major impact? So when you heal, you see everything clearly. You bring it up to your wife. You rewire your brain through the four R's, which we teach in the grounded intimacy. That's an easier path because you're alive now. Your marriage is alive. Your children are alive. If I just described which road, everyone would say I would never pick that road where I'm falling apart, my marriage is falling apart, my kids are falling apart. They would never pick that road and label that easier, right? So reality is coming. Coming back to truth, back to awareness, to this is easier. The only thing making it difficult is myself, is my denial structure. The second thing I want to make as a. A realized truth is that oftentimes people in this space will be worried about, okay, well, if I. If I tell my wife all that I've been hiding, like, you know, Russell, that there's more things you need to share. Even as we. As we close out this call, if I tell her, she's going to leave me. I already heard Kim say she's had her Phil. She's done. Guess what? If you choose to never bring anything out to the open again, you just choose. I'm going to tell you those couple things I've told you and that's it. Next time Kim finds something out, the next time after that, do you think she's going to hit a point where she's done? Absolutely. She's hitting a point where she's done. Like, choosing the path of keeping all your secrets does not guarantee that you get to stay in your marriage. That's actually a guarantee of divorce. That's a guarantee of the relationship actually crumbling. I can guarantee that if you get out all your secrets, secrets, you get in your body and you come alive. Your wife, who's known you her whole life is gonna want to be a part of that marriage. She doesn't want to be in a marriage where she has to check Your phone for LinkedIn messages of you trying to sleep with another woman when you've been telling her, well, I want to understand why. I don't know why. I don't know how. That's not a marriage she wants to be in. She wants to be in a marriage where you sit down and go, here's 30 years of lies I've been keeping from you. And here's how I'm gonna wake up and get in my body. Here's how I'm gonna rewire my brain and replace this and create a whole new life for us. That's a man that Kim wants to stay with. That's a life worth creating. That's a life that's beautiful, where you come alive. And when you come alive, Russell, everything that you touch comes alive. You know what I'm even thinking as I'm talking right now? You probably need a new job. You need to figure out something in there because your work is associated with a lot of sex, that's associated with a lot of other women. And your life right now, as you come alive, everything else is going to come alive, your work included. Something there has got it. Something there has got to have a major change right now. You need to have a big old, like, interrupt to that because right now that path has been leading you into sex. And so I don't know what that looks like for you. It's just that's kind of coming in as you, as you heal and come alive. Everything else around you is going to heal and come alive. And that might look like a lot of changes and they're all going to. Going to be so good. I think I've said this in every episode, and I'll say it every time, is if you choose into this healing one year from now, looking back at this moment, you, I guarantee you, email me. A year from now, I guarantee you, you will not regret having shared everything, gotting everything out, coming alive, recreating a whole new marriage. One year from now, though, if you choose to live as you are, if you just choose to get out a couple things here and there, I'm going to save some secrets for me. Your marriage is probably ended in a divorce, right? Which path would you rather take the one of radical honesty and transparency to yourself and to your spouse recreating a whole vibrant life or the one where you barely share. You just share enough to not look too much like a bad boy, to not hurt your wife, not hurt your parents are your reputation. And then your entire life is still left crumbling. You don't feel alive. The answer is really obvious and the path is actually really quite clear.