Podcast Summary: "When Recovery Work Falls Short: Facing Denial, Objectification, and the Process of Change"

The Grounded Union Podcast – Hosted by Brandon & Caitlyn Doerksen
Date: December 26, 2025
Guests: Kelsey & Evan (live call-in)

Overview

This powerful episode explores the complexities of recovery from addiction within marriage, specifically tackling where traditional recovery work can fall short. Through an honest, deeply vulnerable conversation with guests Evan (in recovery from sex/lust addiction) and Kelsey (his wife), the hosts walk through the limitations of conventional approaches, the pain of ongoing objectification, the realities of denial, and the intricate, often painful process of rewiring both mind and relationship for genuine transformation.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Limitations of Traditional Recovery (00:00–05:20)

• Evan’s background: A long history of sex addiction, started recovery with SA meetings and the 12-step program, but found them insufficient for true transformation.
• Complacency & Denial: As Evan and Kelsey’s relationship progressed, Evan stopped attending meetings, lost touch with his recovery work, and denial structures grew unchecked.
• False “Progress”: Evan rationalized behaviors like viewing explicit material on Instagram, convinced it wasn’t “real relapse” because it wasn’t as severe as previous actions.
• The Cycle of Confession and Clean Slate: Repeated cycles of sin, confession (particularly influenced by his Catholic background), and trying to "wash his hands" without addressing underlying issues.

"I was gaslighting myself into thinking that that was not an issue because I had this chronic history of acting out, watching lots of porn, hooking up with lots of women. And so in my brain I thought, this is fine, it's not a big deal."
— Evan [01:50]

2. Discovery of Deeper Work & Introduction to the Grounded Union Framework (05:20–09:26)

• Turning Point: Kelsey discovers the Grounded Union content on Instagram, prompting deeper, uncomfortable conversations during a road trip and later their babymoon.
• “Denial Structures”: As Evan consumes more of GUP’s material, layers of denial peel back — from noticing objectifying glances to admitting ongoing objectification of Kelsey herself, even making comments about her postpartum body.
• Painful Realizations: Both Evan and Kelsey confront that overcoming addiction isn’t just about abstaining from explicit material but about dismantling a worldview built on objectification.

"That last analysis. Structure is the last thing that I felt like we finally are starting to attack in the most recent weeks — the reality that Kelsey is not the exception.”
— Evan [04:25]

3. The Impact on Kelsey: Safety, Regulation, and Betrayal Trauma (05:21–07:09)

• Initial Hope, Deeper Hurt: Kelsey initially copes with Evan’s struggle when it’s directed externally but reaches a breaking point when objectification turns inward, impacting her and their relationship.
• Aftermath of Disclosure: Kelsey shares the conflict between self-respect/pride in her postpartum body and the pain of not being seen as safe or desirable by her husband.

"Whenever he tells me this stuff, it doesn't necessarily affect the way that I see myself. It just affects the way that I see myself in the relationship… It makes it really hard to heal and feel safe.”
— Kelsey [06:53]

4. The “Four Rs” and Rewiring the Brain (09:26–17:02)

• Explaining the Four Rs: Recognize, Receive, Release, Replace — a process for rewiring the reticular activating system (RAZ), the brain’s way of filtering & prioritizing information.
• Childhood Foundations: Hosts explain how formative experiences and early sexual exposure “wired” objectification into the subconscious.
• Peeling Back Layers: Both Brandon and Caitlyn share their own stories of denial, resistance, and triggers — highlighting that clearing “debris” is a gradual, sometimes surprising process.

"There’s this shift that happened where it didn’t feel like I was concerned about what was going to be found. It was like, I know there’s a bunch of debris, I’m going to clear it out until it’s gone.”
— Brandon [11:13]

5. Embodiment, Deeper Connection, and Emotional Work (17:02–24:00)

• Bringing Up the “Virus”: Caitlyn equates the process to vomiting up a childhood virus; you can’t heal without bringing old judgments, beliefs, and painful thoughts to the surface.
• Tracing Roots: Identifying where judgments toward women (including Kelsey) first originated, often tracking back to early, emotionally charged memories.
• Surprises Along the Journey: Even after quitting porn/social media, intrusive memories/images surface during genuine moments of connection, requiring additional work.

"It actually has to come all the way up… the body starts making us throw up because it's like, 'oh, I'm going to help you get this virus out.'”
— Caitlyn [18:26]

6. Hypervigilance and the Partner’s Struggle (35:37–41:07)

• The New Pain for the Betrayed Partner: As Kelsey's awareness grows, she becomes hypervigilant, noticing every glance, triggering a new wave of insecurity.
• Shared Framework: Kelsey and Evan discuss the challenge that now both are noticing body parts/objectification everywhere—Kelsey feels she’s “brought on” Evan’s framework.
• Tension Between Honesty and Healing: Total transparency is excruciating, yet necessary. Hypervigilance is part of the “detox” before deeper trust and intimacy can rebuild.

"Now that I know that, pretty much anytime we drive down the road… if there is a woman, he's looking at her. So I think now… we're developing this hypervigilance."
— Kelsey [35:37]

• Caitlyn’s Hope: Caitlyn validates the pain of hypervigilance (“I have 400 journal entries from this time!”), but insists that walking through this “dark forest” leads to a future of unbreakable trust and connection.

"If you don't walk through it, then you live with a husband who objectifies women every single day. That doesn't feel good... The pain in knowing it is that you get to the other side where there's a day where you wake up fully intimate... It's so worth it."
— Caitlyn [47:33]

7. The Challenges of “Replacing” and Emotional Embodiment (37:16–42:41)

• Stuck in “Not”: Evan realizes his mind fixates on what not to do ("I'm not going to objectify"), rather than what to actively replace those patterns with ("I choose to see people neutrally").
• Embodiment as Solution: Brandon and Caitlyn stress that true transformation comes from embodying new reactions: feeling/emotionally experiencing what you do want (e.g. perceiving people in a neutral or respectful way).
• Tools for Change: Daily embodiment practices, emotional journaling, active connection, and continually bringing thoughts and triggers into the open.

"The replacing is actually something you will do. I want you to make it about a... new action: 'when I noticed her I saw her face and everything felt neutral.'”
— Brandon [38:32]

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Denial Structures:
  “It was like, all things except the actual sin itself. It was the action of the thing, but then it wasn’t the actual thing… Now, I was able to admit over time by consuming your content — I’m objectifying these women. And it’s happening all the time.”
  — Evan [03:45]

• Kelsey’s Breaking Point:
  “I really hit my breaking point when now it’s happening towards me... It just affects the way that I see myself in the relationship. And it makes it really hard to heal and feel safe and feel like I can walk around or be in my pajamas or anything, for that matter, and feel safe around him.”
  — Kelsey [06:56]

• On Radical Honesty:
  "You hop on and you're like, this is what I've done. This is it... the only way you can head is towards freedom."
  — Caitlyn [13:09]

• On Clearing Debris:
  "There's surprises along the way, where you're like, I thought it was just quitting porn. And then you're like, wait, now I'm tapping into my body..."
  — Brandon [15:09]

• On Hope:
  “I have so much hope... there is a day where you walk out and all that matters is the true things that matter most to you. Your relationship, your children, the legacy... and you'll stand back and go, ‘whoa, that was worth every day that I cried… because now the rest of our lives are so good.’”
  — Caitlyn [45:18, condensed]

Key Takeaways

• Lasting transformation requires total honesty, radical responsibility, and willingness to dismantle denial at every level.
• Overcoming sexual addiction is as much about retraining the subconscious (and addressing childhood/early programming) as it is about stopping surface behaviors.
• Both partners suffer in this process. The betrayed partner’s pain and new hypervigilance are normal but temporary when both show up with honesty and commitment.
• The “Four Rs” and embodiment practices offer a practical way forward: recognize, receive, release, and, crucially, replace old patterns with new, embodied experiences and actions.
• There’s deep hope: walking through the “dark forest” of pain and exposure is the ONLY way to a marriage marked by true intimacy, safety, authenticity, and connection.

Essential Timestamps

• Evan’s initial journey, denial, confession: 00:00–05:20
• Objectification, turning point, discovery of GUP: 05:20–09:26
• Impact on Kelsey, postpartum body, felt safety: 05:21–07:09
• Four Rs & brain rewiring explained: 09:26–17:02
• Embodiment, emotion, and triggers: 17:02–24:00
• Hypervigilance/Partner’s struggle: 35:37–41:07
• Replacing, re-embodiment guidance: 37:16–42:41
• Messages of hope and practical advice: 45:18–end

Tone & Language

Open, vulnerable, encouraging, and at times raw and honest. The hosts Brandon & Caitlyn balance their deep conviction for healing with empathy for both partners’ suffering, offering practical insight and hope for listeners on the same journey.

Recommended for: Couples navigating sexual addiction recovery, those feeling “stuck” despite traditional recovery work, or anyone longing for deeper honesty and connection in marriage.