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Foreign.
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Today's guest, we have Randy Bishop, who is the author and creator of remthod. And Randy, actually, I'll hand it off to you to explain a little bit more about what the RE method is and dive from there.
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Well, if it's okay, I'll just go ahead and show you. This is the book and the RE method. Yeah, some people say re, but it's actually the RE method. So thank you for getting that right, Phil. In just a nutshell, the RE method is pretty simple. Okay? It stands for reflect, reframe, and restore. And it's basically a simple, powerful coaching method that I created to help individuals of every walk of life, actually. But first, the idea is to reframe the. No, that's wrong. First, the idea is to reflect. I told you that I'd do that. Reflect on your current beliefs, experiences, and your choices. And so what the idea is, is we kind of come to these transitions in our lives, and that's what happened to me. And I didn't have anybody really around to talk to. And I'd been through so much in life, and I just sat down one day and said, okay, what do I have to do to think about what do I have to do about this is all. Is this all life is? And so I sat there and I said, okay, let's just look backwards. And I went and looked backwards and I said, okay, what about this belief? Does this work anymore? What about this experience? What did it teach me? Wow, could I have made a different choice? And I realized I was reflecting. So reflect is the first idea, and then reframe. What I ended up doing was basically asking questions of those beliefs, of those experiences, of the choices I made.
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And.
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And then I started to reframe them a little bit. And basically what reframe stands for in my method is limiting perspectives into empowering ones. So reframing something that limited me into an empowering idea, an empowering belief, an empowering choice, and then basically taking that and then restoring. And the idea of restoring for me is restoring my life. Restoring your life with intentional action. Basically aligning to our true identity and our true goals. And what I mean by that is oftentimes people think they're broken. You know, they think they need fixed. They think there's something wrong, and there's really nothing wrong. It's just that I don't think anybody's broken. I think we're becoming. Life is a process. I don't know about you, but I'm never done. I understood the idea of being a Lifelong learner, many, many years. And so I realized that really it's about restoring myself, taking and reframing those things along the way that got out of whack and then putting myself right in the center of who I really am and then going that direction. So that's really the RE method is reflect, reframe, restore, and then honestly, you repeat. You just keep doing it over and over because you're never going to be done.
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So looking through today's generation, I know just before we started recording, we were. You were talking about a group that you were a part of and seeing some of the men there and where they're at in their different walks of life and also different ages that you had in the group and where you were talking about. Well, I mean, some of them might need to reframe, especially where they're at this time. Hey, I'm so lonely. Well, if we reframe ourselves from social media, away from all this tech that we were growing up with, like for my generation and for me, I know I started with the AOL messenger when I was in school and going into high school and Facebook was just starting out. Social media was just coming in to play, but it wasn't a big hitter in. We still called our friends on the phone for the most part. Maybe some texting here and there was, you know, but it cost, you know, a nickel per text or something. So cost us quite a bit to be sending text messages, right? Yeah, so it was a lot of that and then also just going over to the friends houses that we still had going all the way through high school and it was college that, you know, the smartphone started to come in, you know, the first Apple phones and having that and then also the billing method change. So everything become much more right there handy literally in your hand and to be viewing it all the time screen instead of having a designated laptop or desktop that you go to and then you walk away from. So I know that was kind of a loose connect to it, but I definitely wanted to draw back having because I think it was an important part in that the ARC does connect back as well. So I'm talking into that area. Yeah, thinking more into that as we become framed into this social media, this absorbed into that and we're watching our lives just going through to now. How do we need to start looking into things to actually not just allow our lives just go by in a blur?
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Well, Phil, I got to tell you, I'm 60 years old and, and I grew up in a time where a computer didn't fit right here. Yeah, this is more powerful than a room full of stuff that I grew up with. Think about that. And my kids and my grandkids are growing up and my grandkids especially. I remember having an Apple watch on and my grandson going, and he was three or something and changing the face of the Apple and I'm like, how did you do that? I can't do that. It was just amazing. But yeah, this here thing was a room full of pieces and electronics when, when I grew up. So you now carry massive amount of processing power and connection. This is unlimited texting, this is unlimited video, unlimited everything. Right. For a little bit a month. And you can talk to anybody in any country, anywhere for as long as you want. And I couldn't do that when I was growing up. So I think that this kind of device is one of those things that helps us become disconnected. That's one of the things we were talking about earlier is I'm a full time student again, Phil at 60, and it's daunting, but I was in a communications class and one of the things was on mass communication and on being connected through the Internet and Facebook and all these things. And one of the things that I thought was just impossible, impossible to believe was that an increasing amount, in fact, the loneliest people in the world are in their 20s and they're the most connected people. They connect with everybody, everywhere, as long as they can have power in this device. And I was sitting in this little study group and every one of them said how lonely they were. That's the thing we were talking about earlier that you're bringing up is that this is just incredible. I'm 60, I live alone for the first time in my life and I'm lonely and I can handle it. But I don't spend countless hours on a device connecting to people and then call myself lonely. And these folks do. And so I think that's going to create in our world and it already does. When the largest section of people that are actually in their twenties are saying how lonely they are, we're creating, I think the next generation of issues. You know what I mean? I think every generation has their issues, that's for sure. But we're creating one that's disconnected and lonely. And I think that's going to create more need for talking about things like the RE method and talking about just how do we help everyone where they're at. You know, that's really, I think that's the whole thing is forget the RE method. It's just one thing that I can do. It's one thing that you can do. It's one thing anybody can do. And we can go grab a hundred different books and try to help people, but really it's about us helping people, period. Because people are going to be struggling, especially with. With the technology.
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When I grew up, we didn't have these devices. Or when I grew up, I didn't have the full connection of social media when I was 8 years old and the whole Internet in my hand. I look back like, you know, it was different. There were different problems, though, of course, with that generation. I think you made a very valid point to say new things, new technology, new advancements, of course, are going to bring different issues and unveil things that make us human that we start to neglect because of, quote, these advancements. And it's this mass adjustment period of how do we live with something that tries to draw our attention away 247 while also respecting being a human being and how we came into that. How can we live in this world with that?
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I think that what we have to remember is we. We need to. This is going to sound weird. We have to remember that we need to forget technology. Let me say that again. We have to remember that we have to forget technology. Because technology, some people want to call it evil. Some people want to say, oh, I keep them off their cell phones. We're never going to keep people off their cell phones. We're never going to do it. Okay? But what we can do is we can speak to what you said, the human being. Because at the end of the day, the human being is interacting with the technology. When I was a kid, the human being was interacting with the tv. That was the technology of the day. And I went through the period where it turned from black and white to color. And now we have a TV that's a flat screen that's this thick, you know, and mine is a tube that was, you know, bigger than my headspace back there. But no matter what the technology is, we have to remember to forget the technology. The issues are always going to be the human being. It's always going to be the individual. There's no two ways about it. God did not create technology for us to pay attention to. God created human beings for us to pay attention to. And even if you don't believe in God, human beings are what make the world go round because we interact with each other. And even though this can separate us or bring us together, it's irrelevant. It's about people, Human Beings. That's why I do what I do. That's why you do what you do is because people need to understand. People need to become everything they can be. That's why I say, you're not broken, you're becoming. You don't have to be fixed. None of us are broken, broken. We've experienced problems, traumas, but we're not broken. Like we need fixing, like there's some part missing. We're people, we're individuals, and we're as whole as we're going to be. But we can decide to move from here to here to here and keep moving throughout our lives. And it doesn't matter if we had a room full of a computer or a handful of a computer. It's not the technology. We have to remember to forget the technology. We have to remember the human being. That's just the truth.
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So, yeah, now it's, I think, the big part when you talk about that, it's. It's that in person connection, that real connection. Because there are things that are missed through a screen. Even if you are saying, well, I'm texting someone or I'm calling somebody or facetiming, sure, you can see them, but there's almost a certain other element too when you're connected with somebody more in person and having that and being able to open up and see more into them. And that's a big part. That's why I run some men's groups. It's why I do coaching and other things too, is to create connections and also to the clients to say, we need to create some more connections here too for you. Here's the place, you know, what are the places you want to. What are the things that you want?
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It's the, it's, it's the need. It's the need to connect. It's the need to connect. That's why you do the men's groups. Men need to connect, women need to connect, people need to connect. I mean, tech. I'm going to tie this back to technology and again, go back to the human being. I left Tennessee eight months ago and I drove over to my kids in one city and I saw them and I hugged my grandchildren. And then I left and I moved to Indiana. And you know what? This is great. I could connect and I could sit there and say, hi, how are you? And I could see them all and it was wonderful to connect, but it was impersonal. It was still impersonal. They're on this flat screen and you can't. They're going to go away. They're going to go away really fast. But when I went for Christmas and I went and saw the kids sing, you know, it wasn't on a screen, it was live and they're right up there. And then at the end grandpa went over and the kids got to hug grandpa and I felt them and they felt me and we hugged and we kissed and we laughed and all those things that are connecting because the technology is great, but people need to connect, they need to be face to face. And again, we got to remember to forget the technology and people don't. That's why the 20 year olds are lonely, because the technology is just in their face all day long. And if they could just forget the technology, remember to forget the technology and that they need to be with other people. You get men's groups and you do your men's groups and men need other men because men especially. I'm going to go ahead and speak to this menace Shelley. Think they need to do life by themselves. Someone somewhere convinced men that they have to be he man, that they have to have the ability to build a house, fix a car. They have to be able to, you know, craft a bow and arrow out of some twigs and a stone. I mean, someone somewhere convinced them guys that they have to be disconnected to the world, each other and sometimes even their families. And it's just not true. Because why? They're human beings and human beings require some sort of connection. And one of the things that almost every person, man, woman, it doesn't matter boy or girl. Almost everyone that I've. I've spoken to who have trouble especially relating to people is because they think they're the only one who deals with what they deal with. No one else feels the way I do. I can't talk about this. Yes you can, because I promise you with 8 billion, is it 8 billion people? 8 billion people in the world. Somebody somewhere feels the way you do. Somebody somewhere has experienced something, if not exactly very similar to you. And if you open up, if you talk, if you ask, then you can understand more about yourself, more about the world around you and you can get what you need. But you have to walk through that door. You have to just understand that you're not alone. Forget the technology, remember that there's human beings, we're all human beings.
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You know, I think he touched into something that I'm fascinated is that go at it alone, man, you don't need help. You can do this. You have to be successful, be private, don't tell anyone what you're doing hole up, you know, you don't need anybody's help type man. That we see.
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And I.
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That was a big message and a big push. A little less than a decade ago, I remember coming in hearing about this just grind, just grinding. That's where like, David Goggins rose really fast. And some other folks in that arena, too, were just talking about push, push, push, and don't, you know, cut off all your connections and go dark for six months and come out anew. And it's. So when we start flying that to more and more of a world that is already disconnected and for what little connection that already is there. Yeah, through that we're hearing, you know, now we're pushing that. That's still. That message is still there. And we're trying to apply that in a world that's even more disconnected in that interpersonal, in and in person settings. So we're seeing that as a big part of, like, almost inflammation that's coming up. Our own response to this is just. It's harsh against our own mindset. So we have to start going for more of those places where we can get community. But that's beside the point. Right now. We're just seeing a big. What just seems to be the gap because there was this big push for that. But now between Covid, which sheltered everyone and changed people's mindsets, death of the happy hour was a big thing that came up.
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Yeah.
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That I. So I was like, right, nobody's going out for a happy hour anymore.
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Right.
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Are very few. It's been significantly reduced. After work, you would be in an office together. Even though it's not always the best setting for connection. But at least there was that person there. There's people around you that you can talk to and interact with. And now we're seeing more of a lonely man in their house, alone on their phone and not getting out as much. And there's not much drive to get out and make connections.
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I read an article that talked about when companies started to ask their employees to come back, how much pushback they got. They didn't want to go back to work. They wanted to be home. It's like, wait a minute. You want to be disconnected from everybody? I don't understand that. Now. I'm going to tell you, there's nothing wrong with being disconnected. I don't think. I don't want to sit here and say, everybody's got to connect and hold hands and have hands across America and. And sing, you know, Kumbaya. I don't want to. I don't want. Because, listen, I'm number three in the birth order. I'm a touch feely. I'm a life of the party. I want somebody around to interact with. I don't really like being alone. It's not my favorite time of life. But I don't want to say that. That there's no value to it. My best friend is 10 years older than me. He was an only child. He understands being alone, and he thinks I'm nuts because I'm like, I want people around. And he's like, why? This is great. And I'm like, it's not great for me. But see, we just have two different. So I don't want to say that there's no value in doing some things alone or having solitude. That's okay. But I think we have to balance. I think life is about balance. And when we look at it that way, okay, we got Covid and the effects of everybody sheltering. Okay, well, now your work is asking you to come back. You know, hey, so, you know, do a balance. Can I come in three days a week and still work at home two days? I mean, find some balancing rather than just argue that one or the other. I think that's a lot of problems in the world today. Is. It is. It's an either or issue. And I think there's a lot of balance that gets missed. Unity, I think, is one of those things that it requires a balance of the two viewpoints of people to say, hey, let's meet somewhere in the middle. And when a guy. I'm just going to come back to us now. When a guy decides I'm going to meet with a group of guys, it's not my normal thing. He's meeting in the middle, he's coming out and he's saying, you know what? There's some value here. Yes, I'd much rather be in my workshop. Yes, I'd much rather be tweaking my carburetor. But I'm going to go and I'm going to meet with some guys because there's probably some things I can learn about myself. Maybe I can add value to somebody else's life. See, people don't even think about that part. It's not just what you. But maybe what you can give. And when you start to understand that you give something when you're there and you think you're receiving, oh, my goodness, you know, and then there's people who think that they're going to give, and then they receive and it. There's a balance. It always balances out. But we need to be open to that, you know, open to that balance.
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I really like that thought right there of, you know, we resist going back to the office. We resist certain social interactions and putting the. The influence on us as an individual and focused on a, you know, oh, it's just about me. And I know that's not the statement per se, nor what people truly want to think, but there's a certain sense of individualism that is pushed upon fact of where you're saying, go somewhere so that you can give as well, and the presence and even just an ear or whatever it may be. And also you, like you're saying you also get from that. We don't think about that in those terms.
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Yeah, we always think that everything that we do is one way. We often think that I'm doing something, I'm not getting something. In 2004, I took a missions trip to Tanzania, and my entire thing was, I'm going to serve, right? I'm going over there and I'm going to paint these schoolrooms, and I'm going to help sew some curtains, and I'm going to help build some chests of drawers, and I'm going to install some bathroom fixtures. I mean, I'm going to be a part of a group that we're over there, do something. And then they found out that, you know, I was really good at taking pictures and video. And so I became the official, you know, hey, you've got a video recorder. You got. You know, and so I'm doing all that. And when I came home, I had no idea how much I'd really received. I had given and given and given. But what I gave, what I really gained was a perspective and an appreciation because I opened my eyes to. To. To say, did I get something out of this, or did I just give something? And I gave a lot. I mean, it was two and a half weeks, and it was nothing I'd ever experienced before. I'm a kid from small town in Ohio, you know, and here I am in Tanzania, and I've seen, you know, Mount Kilimanjaro. I've only ever heard of it, you know, but I came home. This is the God's honest truth. This actually happened. I came home and I think I landed on a Saturday, and I was supposed to be in church. I was a worship leader, and I was supposed to be in church and lead the next morning. And I was. I was tired. You know, it's like a 20 hour flight. And I got up the next morning and I went and did. Did my thing, and the family went out to lunch, and my daughter wanted to go to the mall. And I was like, okay, well, let's go to the mall. I haven't seen you in two and a half weeks. Let's go to the mall. We walked him out in the mall, and I was overwhelmed. And she's like, dad, can I go to Claire's Boutique? And I said, okay, you know, and if people don't know what Claire's Boutique is, you know, it's a jewelry store for girls. So it's like, okay, it's not a dad thing, but I'll go, you know? And she wanted earrings. I was like, okay, I'll buy you earrings. And we're standing in the line, and I saw that the earrings were $7, and I was about to spend the entire week's wages of people that I just left. And I. I stood there weeping. And my kids are like, are you okay? I don't have to buy these, you know, she thought it was her. And I was like, no, no, just give me a moment. Because I had. Was an understanding. Wow. And then I received compassion. And then I received, hey, you know what? What else can I then do? You know what, what more response can I have? Because I thought I went to, you know, build things, paint things, sew things. But what I ended up doing was learning to love somebody, learning to appreciate somebody. That's not like me. And again, when we open ourselves up to what else is there? That's one of those things that can happen. I'm going to tie this into my book again. And that is at that moment, I was reflecting on a whole bunch of stuff, and I didn't know my method back then. I guess I was doing it, but I hadn't read the book yet. But I was reflecting on a whole bunch of values that didn't really work for me anymore. And I was having to reframe what the truth for me was in real time in front of my children. And then I had to restore something new and quit bawling, you know, and get my wallet out and, And. And transition through this. I mean, three phases in seconds, when I think about it. I mean, it was fast, but I can look back over life and understand how many times I've actually done something like that. When we. We look at what we're really believing or what we're really thinking and going, that doesn't really work. I need to. I need to change my mind. I need to do something different. The value then becomes something like, I'm just going to keep folding into what I do for what you do. But the value is when guys, which is what you do primarily, guys get together and whatever the topic, whatever the issue, when they decide they're going to take a good look, they don't have to look and dig and dig and dig. They just need to get one thing, just one, because there's a whole slew of stuff we can deal with. We'll get bogged down if we think we're going to hit them all. Just find one thing and ask, what have I. What have I believed here? What have I. What have I bought into? And is it real? Is it good for me? Does it work for me anymore? You know what, maybe it's the rugged individualism. Maybe it's the, you know, I'm the dad and I'm the. I'm the authority. I mean, it doesn't matter what it is, just one thing and then ask yourself, and then reframe it and restore yourself and then go back and do it over. Really. We all do it all the time. We just don't really have a name for it half the time. Really.
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Yeah. No, I like that because it's. It's just like using the recalibration whole method that you just went through and using all your buzzwords here.
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Hey, there's a lot of reworks. There really are. I went through a ton of them, you know.
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Yeah, it's that pause, that moment.
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It's.
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It's something I know teaching, I should say coaching some of my clients, I tell them, just take a pause. Try to see if you can just create a gap for you react before you take an action that you feel something is off and find interesting. We were talking about, oh, my values changed now because in that moment, the values might have been, oh, something inside of me triggered. And I want to become protective of that. So my values right now is to protect this, whatever I'm trying to protect from being touched inside or what might have been hurt or something that was said in maybe an argument or it's something that triggered it, but adding that gap. And I love that you have the setup of the re method of reflect, reframe and restore. Because it, to me, it is to just say, hmm, let's take a pause. What's happening inside of me for a second. Why am I going? How can I change it? Do I want to continue with this or do I want to change it?
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It's the ability to ask yourself a question. How many times do we simply react? How many times your, your pause thing is perfect. How many times do we just react? How many. Here's a good one. How many times are we listening to somebo and we already know how we're going to answer and we haven't let them finish their statement? Yeah, I tried my darndest to teach my kids, don't answer me until I've asked the entire question. Because you're not listening to the, to the question anymore. You just want to make your point. And I'll tell you, for those dads out there, for, for moms and dads, actually, but for the dads out there, here's what's going to happen, right? And we've. I've experienced it numerous times. Here's. Here's my favorite one. It's. It's a simple one, and it proves the point. Hey, is anyone hungry? And before I even hardly get hungry out, I hear, let's go to Wendy's. I want Burger King. And I say, that doesn't answer my question. I asked if you were hungry. I didn't ask where you want to go. I didn't ask what you wanted to eat. I asked if someone was hungry, and they went straight through a couple extra questions and said what they wanted. You know, and what I was maybe ready to do was say, oh, no, we're going to go to Red Lobster. It's way different than Wendy's or Burger King. But I was trying to go somewhere with my conversation, but they jump in and they don't answer the question. And we do that as adults, really good to each other. I think that's why we have arguments and that's why we have. I'm not going to go in a lot of places, but we have a lot of places that we are divided, and it's because we do not listen to the question. We only want our voice to be heard. Ask that tie a question of yourself and pause and listen to other people's
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questions, you know, and that ties so well to. We're talking about the individualism, the rise of individualism, and also the fact of making connections, especially in person. It's even like recording right now. It sometimes could be hard to get to the cue of, did you make your full statement? It can sometimes be hard on the phone or even text messages, because that has driven us to make our statements and that it's okay to make a statement before that next message was actually sent by the other person to finish theirs. Yeah, it's kind of driven us to doing exactly as you. What you're talking about.
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I tell you what, the older, the stupider I think I feel sometimes. And you know, people. I'm supposed to be the wise one in the room, you know, the older I get. I had a. I had a. I met a man, man that I really respected years and years ago, and he was a pastor for I don't know how many years, but he was an old man at the time, and. And I wish I could even remember his name, but he was a little church in Indiana, just Bob, I think, was his name, but just a wonderful, wonderful guy. And I went to him one day and I said, but I just, you know, you've got all these years of experience. You've got all of this background. You've got people that you've met in places that you've been in sermon after sermon and you've crisis and joys and just tell me, what is the secret? Can you tell me what the secret is? I mean, he's. I've never met anybody that old, I guess. I don't know. I was maybe 30 at the time and half my age now. And he looked at me, he said, you know, closer I get to God, the farther I am away. And I went, what? And he said, the secret is the closer I feel like I'm getting to God, the farther I am away. He said, and that's a great perspective because I. I'm always moving and I'm never done. There's always something else that I can learn and so take it out of the religious element of it. And I love what he was still saying, is that I still have somewhere to go. I still have something to learn. You know, this morning I called myself a lifelong learner. You know, I learned that very early on not to be this and again that go into the book. That's the idea is you're going to do this process over and over and over. If you think you're going to go through the re method once and go, hey, this was really great, I'm going to pick up another book. The problem is you don't understand. The fact is, it's always a process. You're going to go through this and it's going to be everything we do. You're going to progress from here to there. Once you stop growing, your life is going to be stagnant. And it's just the truth. You have to go back, look again at what you just learned or what you thought you learned and ask yourself if it's right. Be willing to question it. Bob said, the closer I get to God, the farther away I realize I am. What a great perspective. The closer I get to understanding things, the more I realize there's stuff I don't understand. That's just the truth. And as men, we certainly have a problem with that. You know, I'll never forget my dad owned a garage. Okay, My dad owned a garage. My grandpa owned a garage. I hate working on cars. But anyway, that's irrelevant. They owned garages. And there became a point where my dad stopped working on cars because they changed. They started to put computers in them and wiring and things he didn't understand. And he was working a factory job on top of his garage, and so he wasn't going to be learning those things. And God bless my dad. I mean, he was a wonderful man. He provided for his family and, you know, he did a great job providing and everything. I'm not faulting him on that. But he got to a point where, okay, I'm doing this over here, and if I'm going to keep going, I've got to learn something. And I'm just busy over here. And he didn't learn that stuff, but he could have learned those things if he wanted to. But it kept going. And he could have kept going because. But he just gave up and said, well, I'm just going to take my car up and have it fixed instead of learning about what the new car was, you know, and the things he needed to learn for that. I understood a lot when I. When I first heard that. I really understood that.
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B
It's. Yeah, it's more I learn, the less I figure out that I know.
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I can't remember who. The smarter, I think, kind of thing. Yeah.
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Yeah. The less I know. Yeah. For some reason, the Mark Twain quote of, the more I get to know people, the more I like my dog. Now, that's beside the point.
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No, no. That.
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That. That would derail. So.
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No, it's.
- [35:58]
B
It is fascinating. On this journey, you know, in this whole world, I've exploded open with working with men. The depth of work I've done with myself. You know, I've always enjoyed reading about these kind of topics, self help and all these books, ever since. Ever since college. And I've always been fascinated by it. But yet. And there's now, you know, thousands and thousands more books out there, of course, that have grown. But it is fascinating. Say, wow. I. There are certain. There's just so many different areas that I keep diving into and exploring more and more. And it's like the last couple years, there was a whole different turn of places that I've explored in depths. And it's. And it's like, wow, okay, I do know nothing. I know a lot. But at the same time, that distance between where I thought versus what is, it's just. It's massive. And that even if I get to what I think what is, there's going to be another big push that I'm going to realize, oh, it's still. There's still more. But it doesn't mean that it's any way cynical. Say, oh, we will never, never do that. You know, to me, it's. Yeah, it might be true, but the more I continue to expand my own mind and expand my progress in this area, the more I learn, the happier I become, the more I get to experience life and open up just in general. Just all these different things come up for me.
- [37:44]
A
And. And that's. That's amazing that you can. I don't know how old you are. You're like half my age or something. Okay, yeah, just older than. You're just older than my oldest daughter. But let me tell you something. And this is something I realized. I actually sat and read my book again the other day, and I said, guys, it's really, really short. It's like 100 pages and it's pretty big type. And I did it on purpose because I realized that through my life, a lot of things became a pursuit of understanding more and more and more, which is great. It is great. Some people are built like that. Just like my buddy Mike, who is built to be alone. And then he looks at me and thinks, oh, my gosh, what's wrong with you? And I'm like, what's wrong with you? Alone stinks. You know, I want people around. Sometimes we make some of these things so hard that it becomes impossible. There are people who actually need something to get it. And I realized that when I. When I'm reading through it the other day, I went, It's 100 pages in it. But then I went, but I wrote it in such a way that I wanted it to be accessible to anybody who wasn't going to intellectualize. But I'm certainly going to challenge the intellectualizing to go, hey, have you thought about this? You know, And I learned that. I learned that along the way in my career as a worship leader, because everybody has an opinion, everybody has a preference. Every. And you can't make anybody happy. You can't. And so I love the fact that what you're saying is this pursuit, but there's this guy over here that doesn't read very well, and he needs to understand himself, right? And I. I want to help him push his boundary as much as I want to help a guy who's like, man, there's so much more I can learn. Great, let's go there. Let's push. But let's make sure that we're helping every person. That's that balance that we were talking about, you know, Because I don't want. I don't want this guy over here to feel like, if he's not talking like Phil, that he's not learning something. You know, my brother. I was talking to him about my classes, and my brother's four years older than me, never went to school, lifelong musician. And, you know, he can play bass like he's a pro.
- [40:04]
B
I mean, he's great.
- [40:05]
A
But he. He just went, I don't understand why you're going to school. And I was like, because I want to learn more. I want to get this. And he said, I couldn't do it. I can't do it. I couldn't do the stress that you're under. Because I was telling him, I said, man, did I make a mistake. I mean, I'm. I'm reading terms that I'm having to look up and go, I'm not sure I understood what I meant, you know, at 60. And he's like, I. I got a lot of respect for you, you know? And I'm like, thanks, you know, appreciate it. But we're from the same family, four years apart, and just really two different people. And I just think I learned a lot even in that conversation. There's a lot of conversations to have. Let's throw it all back to just, like. Let's remember to forget our technology, okay? Let's remember that intellectualism. Let's remember that stoicism. Let's throw all of the. Whatever words we want to and understand that at the very basic. There are human beings, no two are alike. They have similar journeys, they have similar struggles, they have similar feelings. Some of them are going to attack the problem in a different way than somebody else. You know, one person's going to say, I can do it, and they're going to muscle, and another person like me is going to break down in tears and go, I have no idea. Because I'll be honest, I'll be the guy in the room that'll say it. I'm the guy that will cry. I'm the guy that will go, I don't think I can. And I need somebody who goes, yeah, you can. You can do it. And my friend today, I was telling her, I said, I gotta tell you, I bit off a lot and I'm not sure. And she said, you're only in your first week of school. Don't think like that. You're going to be okay. And I'm sitting there going, thanks. I needed that. You know, we're human beings, every one of us, just a human being. Whether we're. It doesn't matter. We're human beings. We're just human beings. And we just need to understand that we're not alone in this process, no matter how we are. Just. Yeah, yeah.
- [42:25]
B
I wanted to bring up something because it came up and it's related because it's something I've been simmering on for a while. And it comes from Dan Millman, who's one of my favorite authors and probably biggest mentors early on. And he stated something in a sense of, we may all have different pains we go through, but we all feel the pain the same.
- [42:57]
A
Yeah, I agree with that. It's the same pain. You know, if I hit your finger with a hammer and then I hit the guy next door's finger with the hammer, and then you all hit mine with a hammer, we're all going to feel the same pain. But I bet you we express it differently.
- [43:12]
B
Yeah. Yep. That is a good one.
- [43:16]
A
That somebody's gonna. Somebody's gonna scream profanities because that's their training. Somebody who has been a lifelong, you know, minister or something is going to go, I can't really yell that, but they're going to want to. And then somebody's gonna sit around and go, I can't feel at all. You know, I mean, you're gonna have different. Different responses, but you're all feeling the exact same pain. It was a hammer to the finger. You know, that's a silly. My friend, is like, you come up with these ideas and these examples. I'm like, they just. They have.
- [43:47]
B
Yeah, no, I. I like it. And it's. It connects. Allows us to understand. The connection too, is though this person may be in a different area in life or different walk or maybe a different part of their journey, or maybe they just went through a hardship or this person's going through a beautiful time, you know. Yeah. We may not be walking at the same pace or whatever it may be, but we're all here together and understanding that what people are, is, you know, they're going through their journey and we have the similarities. How we feel pain, how we feel the happiness in our human experience, and going through how we. We also experience joy. It may be differently expressed, but I think the feeling is.
- [44:38]
A
Well, I'm. I'm a psych major right now, and I just had my. Well, tomorrow will be my third psychology class. But psychology, you know, is the study. The scientific study of behavior and mental processes. Yes, I got that right on the test. Behavior. Behavior is something that we can observe. We can observe everybody's behavior, but we don't really know the mental process. We have to ask questions about that. So go and stop and think about that. I can watch how Phil responds to getting his finger hit with a hammer, but I have no idea what's going through his head. And his next door neighbor that I hit his. I can watch that guy's response. I can see the behavior, but I have no idea what's going through his head. We have to ask the questions to find that out. So we might even have similar responses. Maybe we have very different responses. The question is, what was going on in your head when you responded? What was going on? What were you thinking? Were you not thinking? I trust you. We're probably responding, but there's still some thought that goes around. I've learned so much in just a couple classes to go, okay, how do I apply this little bit that I learned to go, okay, how's this work over here? In this part of life, you know, behavior, we can. We can watch our own behavior, we can watch somebody else's behavior, but we think we understand each other and that's why we have to talk and that's why we have to ask questions. Even of ourselves. Even of ourselves, you know?
- [46:16]
B
Yeah, like that. And that's definitely ties right into the whole process of reflect, reflect internally and everything that we have there. And yeah, the behavior could be different. What's happening inside mentally, what's being felt, we don't know with what's inside of it and what's happening inside of each and every one of us as we interact.
- [46:38]
A
I have like 15 chapters in my book that kind of go through, reflect and reframe and restore. At the end of every chapter, I have like three ideas, three questions to ask. Because I realized that if people get to the end of a chapter, they've got understanding, maybe they learned something. But the question was, how can I get them to think? You know, how can I get them to think about what they just read? And we do that in textbooks all over. I mean, I'm sitting Here in all three of my classes, going, oh, at the end of every one of these tedious chapters with unending words. And I'm reading and I'm reading and I'm reading and I'm reading. And, oh, look, I get to answer a question now. I get to ask myself, did I get. Did I understand what it was about? And, you know, just give you an example, and I've said this even what belief do I keep acting on that might no longer serve me? We don't think like that. We don't ask ourselves if something we've learned in the past was right or wrong. We don't. Because we were almost taught not to question things. But we should. We should. Especially if we're stuck. You know, one of the things we talked about earlier, I think, in our. In our pre interview was, was this transition thing, you know, and men are in transition all the time. Sometimes we're in transition because we're getting married or we're in transition because we're in school, or we're in transition because we're getting out of a marriage, or we're in transition because we're about to become a f. Or we're about to graduate our children away, and now they're going to send them. And we got. Now we're going to be grandparents. You know, then some guys, they have these personalities and they get themselves in trouble and they're transitioning into jail. And I mean, it doesn't. Men go through all kinds of transitions, and some of them are just. We don't.
- [48:41]
B
We.
- [48:41]
A
We don't talk about it. If we don't talk about it, we don't ask ourselves some things. What did we learn and how's it applied to this transition in our life? We're going to get stuck. We need each other through our transitions. I remember I was. I was talking on a. On a show earlier and I told the story of. I had been married to my first wife for 30 years, and I think it was somewhere in the late 20 years of it. I had been struggling for so long, just so long. And my dad and I never had a very good relationship. Just struggled talking to each other. Never. I always thought that he liked my older brother better and my second brother even better than me, and that he could have never talked to me and I'd have been fine, you know, and I was just at the end of my rope. Didn't know what to do about my marriage. I didn't know who to talk to. I was in ministry. How do you talk to people about this. You know, how do you. How do you be honest about who you are and the struggles you're going through and the fact that you're throwing your hands up going, I can't do this anymore. Who do you talk to? And I went home and visited and. And I said, dad, can we talk? And he was like, sure. I mean, I'd never asked, and we never had. I mean, I taught him how to make mashed potatoes once, you know, because I knew. And, you know, we had those experiences, but we never sat and talked. And I told him from wedding day on my story. And it was the scariest thing I've ever done because I didn't have much of a relationship with my dad, But I needed to hear from him. And so he sat and listened, probably. I have no idea. I could tell you his behavior, but I had no idea what his mental process was. But I just went, okay, I'm done. I just needed to say it, dad. And that man, who never said a word to me hardly about anything, looked at me and said, randy, you're a bigger man than me. I couldn't have done what you've done.
- [50:56]
B
Wow.
- [50:59]
A
I look back at that. Sorry. I don't mind that my dad and I didn't have a great relationship, because in that moment, he gave me what I needed. And in that moment, I had opened myself up to say, I don't know what to do. And I asked the one person that I believed should be able to help me, who never, ever helped me in that way before. And he delivered that line, you're a bigger man. I could not have done what you've done. He didn't offer another word. He didn't offer suggestion. He didn't try to fix me. He didn't try to fix my situation. He just let me know that he saw me as a man, and he saw me as a strong man, even though I felt at my lowest place. And that was the most powerful moment, probably of my whole life. And if I wouldn't have said, I just need to tell somebody, if I wouldn't have gone and opened myself up a little bit, I would never have heard those words. My dad died within the year after that, and I'm lucky because I've had friends who told me that they've never had a conversation like that with their father, and they're jealous of me. I don't know that you should be jealous of me. I spent most of my adult life not knowing my father, and they're like, no, you got that from him, you know, and it was. It was powerful. It was very strong. I'm going to fold it back to the re method. I had to ask myself what I believed because I was about to tell my dad that things that I'd been taught weren't working, they didn't work for me, and that I had to rethink them. And I was going to have to make different decisions, and I was going to have to reframe some of those things and make it work for me so that I could line myself up and restore myself, because I had just been obliterated. And I look back at it now, and I went through the method. I didn't know I did, but I did it with my dad just because I decided I have to say something. I have to go back and look, I have to find out something else about myself. Men everywhere need the conversation. They need to say something. And I hope they do. I hope they do. I hope they do with you. I hope they do with me. I hope they just do. Anywhere. Shoot. Sometimes they just need to open up to their wives if they're married, you know, and just say, by the way, I don't talk a lot, but I'm struggling with this. Don't really want you to fix me. Just need to say it, you know, or whatever, but we need to start not being rugged individuals. It's okay to be a rugged individual. Chop down a tree, but at least say if you need help. Say if you need help. If you're struggling, be honest about it. You know, I'm good. One of the best things ever said to me in my life was because I did that.
- [53:59]
B
Wow. What a powerful share and story. And I appreciate you sharing that.
- [54:06]
A
You're welcome.
- [54:07]
B
The tenderness that was there and the openness, and it definitely aligns taking that step to actually start this process, reframing, reflecting, and restoring yourself and not guessing what could have been.
- [54:27]
A
Yeah, I made missteps along the way. Not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. Within 24 hours, my dad asked me a direct question. I'm not gonna share it here. And just before I drove away from the house, I lied to him. I wasn't ready to tell all of my truth, and I never saw him again. And so I had to deal with the fact that here I'd been so open and I'd received such a great big gift. But then he asked me something that I wasn't ready to say something about. And I actually just. You know how we do it. We protect ourselves. If I tell you this truth, everything you feel about me, you're going to change. And so I couldn't, like, I couldn't say it. I couldn't tell him. And I'm sorry, you know, that I didn't. But my mom told me years later, she said, you know, you know, he'd forgive you. Right? Like, good, because it's been hard to forgive myself. But I had to go back and go. But I had that moment. And I can't judge myself too harshly because I was doing a process for myself too, you know. But I've made my missteps even. And that's the thing I want to say to guys that are listening. That's the thing I want to say to anybody that's talking to us anywhere. You're not going to get everything right. There's none of us who are helping. There's none of us who are teaching, there's none of us who are doing ministry. There's none of us doing any help to anybody. That, number one, we have all the answers. Nope, we don't. We're just here to help guide and hope that we all get better. Okay, in a lot of ways. But you're not going to get everything right. Celebrate the things you do get right, forgive yourself for the things you don't and then go back and do it again. Go back and look again and learn again and readjust. We get stuck because we decide we can't do that. And that's why I say repeat is the fourth re, reflect, reframe, restore, and then repeat it. Because you're going to need to. You're just going to. You know, because we think we're done. We're. But we're not broken. We're becoming. That's my phrase. We're becoming. And that's a constant. It's a constant movement.
- [56:41]
B
Yeah. That is a great place to pause.
- [56:47]
A
Okay.
- [56:48]
B
I love the rap that we had. I think that was tied up very nicely. I love the deep share. Randy, thank you for that beautiful story and that share. And I think it's going to resonate a lot out there. And it definitely ties perfectly with the whole re method. So as we wrap this up, I do want to ask one last question of. For anyone listening, what is maybe one more piece you want them to take away or maybe just one more bit that you want to say?
- [57:24]
A
I would tell anyone listening, anyone watching, anyone who is wondering, because I think often we do, we wonder if this is it, if this is it, is this all there is? That was the transition Kicker for me, just waking up one morning early and going, is this it? Is this it? No matter what processes I've been through, no matter what transitions I've been through, you still come to that question, you know, have I accomplished everything? There is, is there meaning to my life? And the answer is yes. Yes, there's meaning to your life. And it sometimes isn't some big deal. Sometimes it's not a big statement. But we're still not broken. We are still becoming. Even through the transition of answering that question, I am answering those questions every day. I'm not done. I am not broken. I am still becoming. And everyone listening are still in that same place, too. They're not broken. None of you are broken. We're all becoming. So find somebody, grab a book, do whatever you need to do, Process a little bit and understand that you don't have anything to fix. You just have to reflect and you have to reframe. And then you just have to restore who you are and keep moving.
- [58:55]
B
Beautiful. Beautifully stated. Thank you. Randy. Was a. It was a pleasure having you on here. And I love depths that we got to the topics that we covered and everything here. For those listening, how can they reach you?
- [59:13]
A
Well, to begin with, if you want my book, it's available on Amazon. So again, can I show it right here? Again, it's the RE Method and it's Randy E. Bishop. I use my middle initial but find that on Amazon and I also have my first book on there, too, which is another fine thing. But this is the one that is going to help, I think, the most. And so as far as if you want to get a hold of me, email is the best way. And that would be randyifelessonscoaching.net that's lifelessons coaching.net beautiful.
- [59:50]
B
All right, Randy, thank you so much for coming on today. Appreciate having you.
- [59:54]
A
Thank you so much for having me, Phil. It's been a pleasure.