Uncomplicate It :: Hosanna Wong

Summary

The Grove Podcast

Episode: Uncomplicate It :: Hosanna Wong

Host: Shelley Giglio, with guest Hosanna Wong
Date: April 1, 2026
Theme: Encouragement for women—flourishing in faith by embracing your unique journey and uncomplicating your relationship with God.

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and dynamic conversation, Shelley Giglio sits down with author, speaker, and spoken word artist Hosanna Wong to unpack the tangled feelings many women have about their walk with God—especially comparison, expectations, and spiritual "roadblocks." Drawing on her unique upbringing as a street preacher’s daughter in San Francisco, Hosanna shares powerful stories about legacy, grace, and embracing the real "soil" God has given each of us. This episode brings both practical steps and compassionate wisdom for anyone who feels stuck, ashamed, or like their faith just doesn’t measure up.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Embracing Your Origins & Spiritual Legacy

• Hosanna reflects on her roots: Growing up in San Francisco’s Tenderloin as the daughter of a street preacher, she never forgets where she's from, returning often and carrying with her stories of transformation in her community.
  • "It's just sweet, seeing some of the people I've known for decades being like, we're so proud of you… to get to represent the simple gospel I learned from those streets, it's really special." (Hosanna, 02:04)
• The fruit of generational faith: Her father often didn't see the results of his ministry, but she now witnesses the answered prayers and changed lives.
  • "My dad certainly didn't see all the fruit. But I don't take it for granted being his kid that still gets to see the fruit of the prayers he prayed, the fruit of the seeds he planted." (Hosanna, 03:12)
• God’s faithfulness across generations: The conversation highlights how obedience now can bear fruit not just in our lives but in future generations.
  • "God isn't limited as to when he answers and how it works. He's gonna do things for generations because of your dad's faithfulness." (Shelley, 04:39)

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2. Wrestling with Doubt & God’s Bigger Plan

• Admitting doubts: Hosanna candidly admits she often doubts herself and the church but never doubts God’s ability to work.
  • "I have nothing but doubts, God. But I have no doubt in you… I'm living in fruit for seeds I did not plant." (Hosanna, 05:04–05:43)
• The comfort of history: Remembering those who went before gives confidence to step out in obedience today.

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3. Meeting God in Our Mess: Uncomplicating Faith

• The trap of comparison: Hosanna shares how feeling like an "outsider" led her to question where she fit in the church world.
  • "I didn't know where I would fit in this world. There were places I walked into that didn't feel safe… to share about what I was really struggling with." (Hosanna, 08:20)
• Faith can become complicated when we measure by others: She notes that God’s invitation is for everyone, in every season, not just those from one background or tradition.
  • "God made us all wonderfully and uniquely, and God created us to have a relationship with him. So did he set some of us up for success and some of us up for failure?" (Hosanna, 11:13)
• Why so many feel stuck: Unrealistic expectations about what following God “should” look like set us up for disappointment and shame.
  • "Expectation sets us up for a lot of disappointment… The first wave of something that comes against you feels like an obstacle, a roadblock.” (Shelley, 13:13)

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4. Real-Life Application: Gaps, Grace, and Growth

• The ‘God life’ vs. the ‘real life’ myth: Encourages integrating faith into real daily life, not separating it into a quiet time ideal.
  • "We've completely divorced our God life from our real life… That's a lie from the enemy. The best way to have a real relationship with God is to have one in the middle of your real life." (Hosanna, 35:17)
• The power of reframing: Instead of thinking our past or gaps disqualify us, recognize how God uses those for connection and growth.
  • Hosanna’s story about watching Titanic captures this, as her gaps (not seeing common films) became a place of shared discovery and joy with her husband—mirroring how God wants to meet us in what we lack (17:32–19:16).

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5. Making Faith Personal: Soil, Seasons, and Individuality

• Metaphor of the vineyard: Referencing "abide in me" and her interviews with vineyard growers, Hosanna illustrates the importance of recognizing and honoring the unique "soil" of our lives.
  • "It will not help my vineyard to just rigidly obsessively copy and paste what other vineyard growers did on soil I did not have… I have to look at what I'm made of. Every step after that depends on it." (Hosanna, 26:26)
• Flourishing in your current season: Avoid comparing your faith practices to others’ or even your past self; God desires a real relationship with who you are right now.
  • "We compare our relationship with God to a past version of ourselves… We think we're not spending time with God the way we're supposed to, simply because we're not spending time with God the way we used to." (Hosanna, 28:39–29:17)

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6. Practical Advice: Leading Others and Yourself

• On guiding others: Hosanna vulnerably shares her journey with her younger brother, learning to help him develop his own unique relationship with God, not one that’s a copy of hers or anyone else’s.
  • _"I repent of the ways I've over complicated this for my brother… The answer wasn't to read it quickly. The answer was to read it slowly." (Hosanna, 32:26–33:54)
• Simple Bible study method: Two questions as you read: “What did I learn about God? What did I learn about how to live?” (33:54)
• Receiving and sharing grace: You can't pour into others until you let God do his work in you.

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7. For the Stuck & Ashamed: Hope and a Step Forward

• For those who feel stuck: Hosanna encourages listeners to uncomplicate faith by integrating God into real life and asking two honest questions—What has God called you to? What hasn’t He?
  • "Your God life is your real life. So my next step for you would be to reframe this and to come to God…what am I doing that you have called me to do? And God, what am I doing that you have not called me to do?" (Hosanna, 35:17)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On legacy:
  "I'm living in fruit for seeds I did not plant." (Hosanna, 05:43)

• On comparison and over-complication:
  "If we teach people a one size fits all kind of faith, we're gonna raise a generation of people who are faking it. And quite frankly, we've already done that." (Hosanna, 23:27)

• On the soil metaphor:
  "It will not help my vineyard to just rigidly obsessively copy and paste what other vineyard growers did on soil I did not have… At some point, I have to look at what I'm made of." (Hosanna, 26:26)

• On stuck seasons:
  "The answer is not go buy a cute planner… The answer is to repent of the ways you have set a standard for yourself that does not come from God… and invite God into the real season you're in." (Hosanna, 35:17)

• On embracing discovery:
  "I feel like I know less every day… That's the perfect picture of this journey of just discovery. Like, every day is an opportunity to learn something, see something, enjoy something, know something that you've never known about in your life." (Shelley, 39:37)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:04] Hosanna on representing her background and the fruit of her father’s ministry
• [05:04–05:43] On doubting herself but not doubting God’s plan
• [08:20] Feeling like an outsider and the complexity of church culture
• [11:13] God’s universal invitation despite our differences
• [17:32–19:16] The Titanic story: turning “gaps” into connection
• [26:26] The vineyard and “soil” metaphor: honoring individuality
• [32:26–33:54] Hosanna’s approach to helping her brother grow in faith
• [35:17] Reframing your “God life” and integrating faith into the everyday

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Actionable Encouragement

• Reflect: What “soil” are you uniquely working with? What have you been comparing yourself against that isn’t real or right for your season?
• Ask God: What have You called me to? What have You NOT called me to?
• Practical practice: Try reading scripture slowly, asking, “What did I learn about God?” and “What did I learn about how to live?”
• Remember: God wants to meet you right where you are—with your learning style, routines, quirks, and season.

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Conclusion

This episode is a compassionate invitation to release comparison, embrace your unique journey, and simply walk with God in the soil and season you’re in. Hosanna’s warmth and real-life stories, paired with Shelley’s seasoned wisdom, offer not just encouragement but also practical steps to move from stuck to flourishing in a faith that is truly your own.

Transcript

[Hosanna Wong]

Foreign.

[Podcast Host]

Welcome back to the Grove Podcast. It's Francesca Price here, and today's episode is for anyone who's felt like their faith is too messy, too behind, or somehow not measuring up. Shelley Giglio sits down with speaker, author, and spoken word artist Hosanna Wong to talk about spiritual roadblocks, comparison, and the pressure to live up to the expectations of someone else's walk with God. Hosanna shares powerful stories from her upbringing in San Francisco, the legacy of her dad's ministry, and together, she and Shelley explore how to nurture your relationship with God and flourish in different seasons of life. If you've been feeling stuck, discouraged, or unsure how to connect with God in the season you're in, this episode is a deep breath and a clear next step. Let's listen in.

[Shelley Giglio]

I love you so much. I'm so thankful. I know you're probably doing a kajillion of these at the moment.

[Hosanna Wong]

My goodness. This is.

[Shelley Giglio]

Congratulations on your book release.

[Hosanna Wong]

Thanks. This is a breath of fresh air in the midst of it, so I'm thankful.

[Shelley Giglio]

I'm proud of you, girl.

[Hosanna Wong]

Thanks.

[Shelley Giglio]

Did you ever think when you were like that you would be writing all these?

[Hosanna Wong]

It's crazy to me. It's crazy.

[Shelley Giglio]

I literally look at you sometimes. I'm like, hosanna. This is wild.

[Hosanna Wong]

This is wild. And when I go back to the streets in the Tenderloin in San Francisco, my friends remind me. They're like, can you believe you were able to write this stuff down?

[Shelley Giglio]

You were just there, too, weren't you? Were you there a couple weekends ago?

[Hosanna Wong]

Yeah, I was there a couple weekends ago.

[Shelley Giglio]

Talk about what all that felt like, just being in that space. I think you're amazing because I don't think you ever forget where you come from. And I think it's so easy sometimes when life moves on to kind of, you know, not have a reference point for those days and what God did in us and the miracle of it all and where you.

[Hosanna Wong]

Where.

[Shelley Giglio]

Where you came from, being so tethered to who you are now, but it seems like you're so in tune with that. But just talk about what it was like to be back there for a minute.

[Hosanna Wong]

It's just sweet, like, seeing some of the people I've known for decades being like, we're so proud of you. You represent our streets. Well, they still call me little girl. Cause when my dad was alive, they would say, that's little girl. That's the preacher's daughter, Little girl. So I can just show up at parts of downtown San Francisco and people will just know me as that. And they'll be like, it's just so sweet for them to be proud of representing them well. And even just to get to represent the simple gospel I learned from those streets, it's really special.

[Shelley Giglio]

I don't think so. A lot of people wouldn't know, but your dad was a street preacher. He was saved radically, right? From destruction, literally, and death to new life. And then wanted his friends, the people that he walked life with, to know that they too could be saved. Right. And so he spent his lifetime telling them the good news and sharing with them. And you saw a lot of people come to life in those days in Jesus, I mean. And are some of those people still around? Are you seeing them when you go back? I love it.

[Hosanna Wong]

A lot of them are still around. A lot of them don't live on the streets anymore. They praise God for that, have families and serve in churches and have jobs and they come and serve with their kids. Like, it's really beautiful. And just to see it, you know, so often, like, you say yes to Jesus, we know this. We say yes to God, and obedience is enough. Like, I obeyed God. I don't always see the fruit. And my dad certainly didn't see all the fruit. He was faithful to the end. He led his plumber to Jesus two days before he passed away. So my dad shared Jesus, so beautiful till the end. And he didn't see all the fruit. But I don't take it for granted, being his kid that still gets to see the fruit of the prayers he prayed, the fruit of the seeds he planted. And so to see people come and just remember that, that simple gospel and remember Jesus and want to bring their kids around it, I don't take that for granted that I get to see. I get to witness some things on everyone gotta witness.

[Shelley Giglio]

Yeah.

[Hosanna Wong]

You know, so well, I think we

[Shelley Giglio]

talk about the gospel being generation to generation all the time. I mean, we're always talking about how God is faithful to every generation. But I think when you live in a situation where you have that visible before you of I really am walking in a lot of the things that my dad prayed, not just for me, but for his community. And I'm getting to see some of the fruit that maybe he never did get to experience. But I'm the next generation and I get to see how God was faithful to him and how he answered so many of those prayers then, now, years to come. You know, God isn't limited as to when he answers and how it works. He's gonna do things for generations because of your dad's faithfulness. And I think seeing that to me helps me back up to today and say, okay, Lord, if this is what you're doing and this is the way you're scripting and writing life, then just let me be faithful today.

[Hosanna Wong]

Yep, I think so. I think when I, you know, doubt myself, which I have tons of doubts, I doubt all of us.

[Shelley Giglio]

We all do a little bit.

[Hosanna Wong]

This is the church you picked God for 2026. We're the people you want to use. I have nothing but doubts, God. But I have no doubt in you. And I have no doubt in your plan and no doubt in what you're able to do. So I have tons of doubts about all of us. But it helps me when I feel uncertain or even when I feel fearful to remember. And that same God that my dad trusted, that same God that those before me, those who paved roads before me trusted, like, that same God. I'm seeing the fruit of yeses that I didn't make, Shelley. Like, I'm living in fruit for seeds I did not plant.

[Shelley Giglio]

That's so beautiful.

[Hosanna Wong]

And it's a good reminder for me when I feel God calling me to do something that doesn't make sense to me. When I feel God calling me to do something that I'm not sure what the fruit's gonna look like or if I'll ever see it. It's just helpful to have a good memory.

[Shelley Giglio]

Yeah. And just to remember.

[Hosanna Wong]

Totally. Like, I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna depend on you, God, and believe and believe in you. I'm just gonna obey you. I may not see the fruit, but someone might.

[Shelley Giglio]

They will. I believe that in Jesus name. Hey, we wanna talk about the book a bunch. Cause I just. I want people to know about it. And I want you to talk about just what inspired you toward it. Thank you. But I also wanna remember when we met.

[Hosanna Wong]

Yeah.

[Shelley Giglio]

So can we go back for one second?

[Hosanna Wong]

Sure.

[Shelley Giglio]

So you and I both were doing propel event with Christine, who is still our hero. We love that girl. She is the literal best.

[Hosanna Wong]

We have taught her everything. She knows.

[Shelley Giglio]

Yeah, she knows that. Talk about remembering where she came from.

[Hosanna Wong]

Don't forget she knows.

[Shelley Giglio]

But I. We basically arrived in the airport at the same time, went to lunch together, and that was our first, like, oh, hey, hosanna. Nice to meet you. It was interesting in that moment for me and you can speak differently. You might not have felt this, but I instantly knew that I would be talking to you today. I didn't know what about. I didn't know what condition God would use your life and how he would use my life in your life. So I wasn't projecting what I thought it would be like, but it was just an instantaneous friendship. It was like one of those things where you go, huh? I was meant to know her. We were actually meant to know one another. When I go back and read things that you're writing today and the kinds of things you're talking about and the way that you're surveying the church and trying to understand where a lot of the hurt and confusion for people plays into how they then deal with God. I go back to the moment I met you, and I think you were in a season of coming out of some of that distress, a little bit of maybe not trusting as much as you were, maybe not understanding clearly the path toward your involvement in the church, Big C, church at large. And talk about that season for you and how it informed. Really. Because that was years ago. 10, 11 years ago. That's been a minute.

[Hosanna Wong]

Yeah.

[Shelley Giglio]

Talk about how you think some of that informed your inquisitive nature about how people are complicating their life with God.

[Hosanna Wong]

Yeah, I think, you know, my upbringing on the streets of San Francisco was unique. I didn't know that, you know, you grow up, that's all that, you know, with an outdoor church, with a dad that had been saved from extreme circumstances and addict. And then I started sharing the gospel after he passed through spoken word poetry and through preaching. And I didn't feel like I fit anywhere. Like I didn't come from anything, if that makes sense. That's how I felt. Like I didn't come from anything. I didn't come from a certain denomination. I didn't come from a traditional church background. But I loved Jesus, and I really wanted to know how it could be real for me and for others. But it was a little confusing for me to be as honest as possible, that I didn't know where I would fit in this world. And there were places I walked into that didn't feel safe to be myself or to share about what I was really struggling with, or my real sin or my real shame. So I think even meeting you, I think the instant connection that I felt with you was an immediate feeling of safety, an immediate feeling of, like, oh, I could share what I'm really going through. I had no idea about your walk with the Lord, the way I know about it now, but I could feel it in your presence that I was like, I feel like I Can the Lord's given me a green light, like the Holy Spirit is telling me this is a safe space. Yeah. Thank you, God, for your Holy Spirit. So I would say that I think Jesus was never complicated to me because of what I saw him do on the streets of San Francisco. But then as I started to share about him in a more broad sense, it became complicated to me. Like, where I fit, where did I go? I didn't run with a crew. I didn't know a lot of people. So it started to feel complicated for me, and I didn't know where to go. And I saw how that was true for all my friends. Like, this message about needing to sometimes uncomplicate the ways we've overcomplicated our faith is really a message for me and my friends. I feel like so many of us feel like in order to have a relationship with God, it has to look a very specific way. Maybe like our heroes, like, maybe people we look up to. Maybe our moms, our dads, our grandmas, or that one person we follow on TikTok. But we think, okay, we have to wake up at a very certain time of day and pray for a certain amount of hours, and we have to dress a certain way, or we have to use word. Certain words. And some of us might feel like we don't know what all these words mean, or we didn't grow up in a traditional church setting, or we're not morning people, or we have, like, a different learning style. So I'm not at that. Yeah, there's plenty of people where we have a different learning style. Plenty of people that I feel I represent in my friends and my family who can't sit and read certain texts for hours the way other people are bent to. But I wrestled with.

[Shelley Giglio]

Is that okay?

[Hosanna Wong]

Right. The Jesus that I read about growing up or the Jesus that I was introduced to on the streets of San Francisco wanted a relationship with everybody. And as I understood it. So I'm thinking, like, am I wrong? Like, did I read this wrong? As I understood it, God made us all wonderfully and uniquely, and God created us to have a relationship with him. So did he set some of us up for success and some of us up for failure? Are some of us just built to have a relationship with God? But some of us are not. Some of us have too many roadblocks, and I've just journeyed with too many friends with different cultural backgrounds, with different family backgrounds, with different learning styles, kids with different learning styles, and with different personalities, introverts and extroverts and morning people and night owls. And I realized, man, God wants a relationship with all of us. He didn't want to make this as hard as possible. He sent his son, Jesus, to come and die for our sins, to be the way to him. All throughout history, God has just been trying to get closer to us. So why have some of us, perhaps, and I'll put myself in that category, just seen all these roadblocks to be close to God, all these roadblocks to live lives of purpose for God. Why do some of us feel like we're on the outside of some inside spiritual joke, some inside spiritual lingo, some inside spiritual secret? Why do we feel like we're on the outside? And so I think, I mean, you're really wise to think that that season was me kind of uncomplicating it for myself. Faith wasn't complicated, but what does that look like now in my life is. And I actually think that's really common. I think there's a lot of people who would say, I believe in God sometimes. God isn't what's complicated. It's how do I have a relationship with God in my season in a town I didn't plan on living in, in a role I didn't plan on having, with family dynamics I did not pray for.

[Shelley Giglio]

Yeah, I think because I think expectation sets us up for a lot of disappointment. I think when we anticipate. I think we talk about this with God all the time. Like, when I start following God, then it's going to be a seamless journey. I'm not going to have complications. I'm going to have. We're going to live where we're supposed to live. We're going to do what we're supposed to do. We're going to have meaningful lives. We're not going to have hardship, we're not going to have distress. And I mean, it's just not true. And so the first wave of something that comes against you feels like an obstacle, a roadblock, as you call it. What do I do with this? I don't know how to live like this. I'm not living the life I thought I was gonna live. My expectations are dashed. I'm so disappointed. Am I disappointed in God? I don't even know. Or is it people or circumstance? What am I so discombobulated by? And I think that season for every human can just continue. The first one leads to the next one. And as we know, I'm 61 now. I don't think it gets a lot Easier. I don't think there's a point in life where it's like, oh, I understand it now, and I've figured it out, and now I'm living the dream. I'm like, it's all the dream. Hey, I walk with God. That is a dream. He is holding my life and my hand. That's amazing. But every other thing that I've attached or added to that is complicating things that I don't have the ability to understand. I don't have the knowledge to know what could be your purpose in this. And so, for me, I think it's raised my trust to a level where I can honestly say to God, I don't get it. But I think you do.

[Hosanna Wong]

Right.

[Shelley Giglio]

I don't want it. I don't want this hardship. I don't wanna walk through this season. But I do know you're with me in it and that you are gonna walk with me in this and through this season. So, yeah, talk about a couple of those in your life where you feel like, yeah, it's not what I wanted. It's maybe not what I expected, but here I am, and how do I make it through it so that I can then testify to his faithfulness?

[Hosanna Wong]

Right? Yeah, I have a lot of those. I think for so much of my life, I had an idea of what a perfect Christian looks like, like what this person looks like, how much they smile, the kind of friends they have, the kind of routines they have, the kind of ease that their life must have, how organized they must be and how perfect their life must be. And I have thought, if I am not reaching that standard that I've created for myself.

[Shelley Giglio]

It's in your mind, right? Yes.

[Hosanna Wong]

Then I feel like I'm falling short. I'm failing God, I'm failing my family. I'm failing my husband. Where did this expectation come from? And many of the expectations that we carry don't come from God. So, of course, when I feel like I'm not in an ideal season, I have too much grief happening in my life. When I feel like I'm too busy, there's too much going on, even if they're good things, then I feel like I'm just not able to spend time with God. Or I feel like I don't understand things about God that everyone else seems to understand, then I start thinking, man, because my background was the wrong background. My parents were the wrong parents. It's because I'm not studying hard enough or I'm not smart enough. I'm constantly Thinking that I'm falling short. And one thing that helped me really understand, really, not just the grace God has for me, but the invitation that God has for me was my relationship with my husband Guy, my marriage with my husband Guy. So when I met my husband Guy, let me tell you this. So I'm a big game night person. I love playing games. Uno night, Mahjong night, trivia night. I love a good game night. But whenever there's a trivia night, my friends will pick me last. Because I have terrible knowledge about pop culture. Because for the first 17 years of my life, I didn't have a TV.

[Shelley Giglio]

Yeah.

[Hosanna Wong]

So there's a lot to say about that. Perhaps why I have such a broad imagination, but I didn't.

[Shelley Giglio]

Also could have been a lifesaver, perhaps, certainly.

[Hosanna Wong]

But in junior high, I didn't, like, connect with all the kids in my class because we didn't have the same taste in anything. Because I didn't know the. I didn't know pop culture. When I was dating in high school, when boys would ask me, what's your favorite movie? I didn't know what to say. I've only seen two. And I constantly felt like my gaps were these roadblocks to my relationships. I was really embarrassed about them, embarrassed about my family, embarrassed about our circumstances. And then when I met my now husband, Guy. Guy loves movies. And when he found out about my gaps, he was so excited. He thought it was so cool that he got to share all these movies with me. Through his lens, he made a whole list of movies. Shelly. I'll never forget when he showed me the movie Titanic. I'm crying thinking about it. This was two years ago. Literal, epic. Two years ago. And we're on our couch, and I'm weeping my eyes out. And I said to him, my love, this movie's amazing. Everybody needs to see it. And he's just hugging me and loving me, and he says, my love, everyone has seen it. And you know what? I was so awesome, you know, like Mary. But. But how. How could I not know? How did nobody tell me? Man, there's a message on evangelism somewhere in there. Like, how come no one told me?

[Shelley Giglio]

Great.

[Hosanna Wong]

But I'll tell you, I was sitting there with him, and I realized it's about my relationship with God. Because what I saw as gaps, Guy saw as an opportunity. What I saw as roadblocks, Guy saw as a shortcut to a deeper. To a catalyst for deeper connection, for a way for me to have a relationship like I've never had one.

[Shelley Giglio]

Before.

[Hosanna Wong]

And this one isn't filled with guilt and shame. It's filled with joy as I get to experience things through his lens. And that is just so much like the relationship God wants to have with us. We might see spiritual gaps. We're not from a traditional church. Maybe we didn't have parents that loved God, or maybe they did love God, but they didn't know how to love each other well. Or maybe there's certain words that people use in church that we don't know the meaning to, or we don't know the answer to everyone's questions or what the Bible says about everything. We might feel like we're on the outside of some spiritual lingo. And I just want us to know. What I've discovered is that what we see as gaps, God sees as an opportunity, what we see as roadblocks, God sees as a shortcut. He wants to have a real relationship with you where you really are in the real season you're in. And this is actually the most fun and engaging way to have a relationship with God. So I think that's an encouragement for all of us in whatever season that you're in with whatever learning style you have with, however, God has uniquely and wonderfully wired you. What would it look like to have a real relationship with God? Not like not comparing your relationship with God to everybody else's, but to be inspired by them, encouraged by them, praise God. Everyone's relationship with God is different. But for you to come to God as who you really are and to have a real relationship with him in your current season, what would that look like?

[Shelley Giglio]

I think just imagining it for people sometimes is part of the path to it.

[Hosanna Wong]

Yeah.

[Shelley Giglio]

You know, stopping long enough to say if. If I could have this true relationship with God that was really deep and deepening daily. If I could really walk with him through stuff and be so aware of his presence, not distant from him, and throw in a Hail Mary prayer out, but truly surrounded by him and held by him and walking this life with Him. If I could imagine what that would be like, I could step back to say, a, I want to pray toward that. I want to tell you that's what I want, God. I want to converse with you about it. B, I can start then unwiring myself maybe from things that have super complicated the process. I have to do it this way or that way. I need to do it this time or that time. I need for it to look just like her, because, look, she's super spiritual, and I want to be that. So that Must be the path to it. But what you're saying is paths can be individualistic, paths can be unique. People are certainly unique and individualistic. So why wouldn't our path with God look the same? And I think that's just an expectations thing that ends up disappointing us royally because we don't necessarily grow up to look just like someone else. Like, what I love about you, Hosanna, is that you're not like me. What I love about you is that when you talk about the streets of San Francisco, I don't relate. I grew up in a big town, Houston, Texas. It was a big city like San Francisco. But that's about the depth of what we have in common. You know, honestly, it's not like, hey, and then I didn't have TV until I was 15. And then we don't go down this long list and go, these are all the things that are the same with me and Hosanna. But the deepness of our relationship is not contingent on one of those.

[Hosanna Wong]

Right? That's right.

[Shelley Giglio]

I learned so much from you. I watch your life. I watch how you build your life with Guy. I watch how you build your ministry and how you want to serve people. I watch the compassion that you carry because of where you came from. And I watch you use that in people's lives and with people to show them Jesus. And I am so inspired. So I think we understand it as it relates to me and you.

[Hosanna Wong]

Right.

[Shelley Giglio]

Gosh, we don't have to be the same. We can be totally different and be super close, but somehow when we're in relationship with God, we think it all has to look a certain way.

[Hosanna Wong]

Right. I love that you said that, because that's so true. Like, when you post pictures of your dad, he's typically on a tractor.

[Shelley Giglio]

Yeah.

[Hosanna Wong]

In a truck. In a truck with his family. And my dad's in, like, basketball shorts with graffiti. And I just think about how. Yeah, there's. There's not a lot we have in common. And I bet you that the way you spent time with God today was different than the way I spent time with God. And I think it's not going to be helpful to raise a generation of people telling them that they all have to experience God the exact same way at the exact same type of day in a very specific kind of season, but not that kind of season. When you have this class schedule, but not this class schedule. When you have this job and not this job, it's not gonna. If we teach people a one size fits all kind of faith, we're gonna raise a generation of people who are faking it. And quite frankly, we've already done that. Like I think about the religious people of Jesus Day and how they over complicated it. This is not a new problem. The religious people of Jesus Day, the Pharisees, over complicated the way to God and they had all these fancy rules and all of these ways to connect to God and what day they had to be and how it had to look. They even try to make themselves look more humble when they were fasting. And Jesus came to uncomplicate it and say, you put your faith in me, you believe in me, not yourself. And you turn away from your sin and you repent of your sin. And then you're gonna follow and I'm gonna show you how to live. And it's way less complicated than some of us have made it. I was thinking about. Okay, two things came to mind when you said that. I was thinking about, you know, I know where I'm at. I know I'm on the Grove podcast.

[Shelley Giglio]

Yeah.

[Hosanna Wong]

And we talk a lot about we love you at the Grove. I love the Grove. I love the Grove. I pray for you all. And I love that you talk a lot about flourishing.

[Shelley Giglio]

Yeah.

[Hosanna Wong]

I wanted to enter something into the chat because that's kind of. I've been one of the hearts and themes I feel like in this ministry for over a decade now, praise God, is when I went on a journey to discover, like, what would it look like for me to flourish with my background and my personality and all my quirks. I was trying to unpack the passage that I know we unpack a lot at the Grove. On abiding. Abide in me, remain in me, live in me. Like branches are connected to a vine. You must remain with me to flourish. And I went on a journey of interviewing different vineyard growers through around the world, people in Paso Robles, Napa, New Zealand, and then in the hills of Tuscany. And I went to a family owned vineyard in Tuscany and asked a winemaker named Niccolo.

[Shelley Giglio]

Love it already.

[Hosanna Wong]

Of course his name was Niccolo, of course. And I said to him, totally ignorant as somebody who has never grown vineyards. I said, what would be my next 10 best steps if I wanted to create the most flourishing vineyard? The best flourishing vineyard. I'm thinking I'm gonna write down these 10 steps, my next gonna be 10, 10 perfect steps to flourishing. I'm gonna write a book called Abiding for Dummies.

[Shelley Giglio]

He's like, man, who have I got here?

[Hosanna Wong]

Okay. Looking at me, he's like, this girl's never grown. One thing in the dirt. It's like, correct 1,000%. And he laughed at me. And he said, I don't have the next 10 perfect steps for you. He said, instead, I have a question for you. If you want to start building the most flourishing vineyard, my first question for you would be, what is your soil? What are you starting with? What is it made out of? And then he started pointing to different vineyards around us. And he said, you know, the soil from over there is nothing like the soil from over there. And the soil, that vineyard, it has more shade. Shout out to shade. He says, that vineyard over there has more sunlight. And he said, I can go to all of the other vineyard growers and learn from them. And I should. They've grown things longer than I've grown things. I should be inspired by them. I should take notes from them. Absolutely, he said, but it will not help my vineyard to just rigidly obsessively copy and paste what other vineyard growers did on soil I did not have. At some point, I have to look at what I'm made of. And every step after that depends on. And we talk a lot at the Grove about what that looks like, right? That your seed has to die. We need to put our faith in Jesus and repent of our sins. And we talk a lot about what that journey is. And I just wanted to enter this picture into this long standing narrative that God is writing in this house, that one of the things that set me free is thinking my soil doesn't look like theirs. And there's people listening to this podcast right now. There's people in your life that can't imagine being from the soil that you are from. And there's people in your life, you might not know the soil that they are from. And it's not going to help our faith to just obsessively try to copy and paste how someone else is growing or how someone else is flourishing on soil we do not have. The best way to have a relationship with God is to come to God with your real soil. Where you're really from, what you're really made out of, where you're from, what you've overcome and to consider your season. You cannot nurture your vineyard, your connection as branches to vine, as if you're in a season you're not in.

[Shelley Giglio]

That's that.

[Hosanna Wong]

What season are you in? Cause I have found that many people we might compare our relationships with God to other people's relationships with God, but many times we're Comparing our relationship with God to a past version of ourselves. A past season we were in, man, when the kids were this age or when I was single or when I had this other role or when I didn't take on this other responsibility that God called me to.

[Shelley Giglio]

Right.

[Hosanna Wong]

And we can fantasize, idealize some past season. And we think. We think we're not spending time with God the way we're supposed to, simply because we're not spending time with God the way that we used to.

[Shelley Giglio]

Yeah.

[Hosanna Wong]

But God wanted a real relationship with you then, and he wants a real relationship with you.

[Shelley Giglio]

Hosanna. And I think just making people so aware of that so that they can really evaluate, where am I. Yeah. What. What. What is made up to make me? What is the soil that I'm in? And how can God in that soil. Yeah. Create a vibrant, living, flourishing relationship with him? And we all know that our relationship with the people that are surrounding us is really contingent. I believe so much in what God is doing in us.

[Hosanna Wong]

Yeah.

[Shelley Giglio]

And I think sometimes as believers, what we wanna do is go ahead and reach out for everyone else before we have really cultivated anything with God in us. And I haven't allowed him to do his work in us so that we have something to talk about, we have something to share. We have a generosity that's being built in us. We have shade that we're creating, that we're full leaf God has done so that we can then say to other people, sure, what can I offer you?

[Hosanna Wong]

Right.

[Shelley Giglio]

My life is available. And I just think so many times, because believers are comparing to others, we get ahead of ourselves in that. And we get where we're wanting to give everybody everything before we really have anything to offer.

[Hosanna Wong]

Right. I think that's true.

[Shelley Giglio]

Yeah. We need to back up to where am I and who am I and how does God want to have a relationship with me in this moment?

[Hosanna Wong]

And receiving that grace for myself helps me give it to others.

[Shelley Giglio]

Yes.

[Hosanna Wong]

Like, that's why I believe you are able to give so much grace to people and see people. You've received that grace from God. You have a real intimate relationship with God that people, that girls that just meet you on the road, that didn't know you and never met you before, can sense. And I'll say I can sense that with my own family. I see the ways that I try to rigidly lead my little brother Elijah to Jesus. And then we, once he put his faith in Jesus, the ways I was rigidly trying to make his relationship with God look like mine. Not because I had a bad heart, because I had poor theology, not because I had a mean spirit, because I thought I was obeying God by trying to make his faith fit in the same way that my faith was real in if that makes sense. Like there are people who pray for hours in the morning, not because they think they have to, but because that is the best time for them, the most real for them. And then there's some people who I know that pray late at night, that pray to the Lord late at night, that take walks late at night, and that is the most real for them. And I remember when my baby brother wanted to start reading the Bible. Oh, Shelly.

[Shelley Giglio]

Did you give him a list? Did you tell him how it works?

[Hosanna Wong]

It was even worse. I genuinely. Because now I don't have as many spiritual gaps as I used to right now. I know what a lot of people would say about where Elijah should start. And I don't know that that served me in this moment to know so much. Does that make sense?

[Shelley Giglio]

Yeah, it does.

[Hosanna Wong]

And I could hear my heroes, I could hear my friends in my head about, this is the right devotional to start again. Our friends are heroes, like people that mentor me. But now I'm thinking about my little brother who does have a different learning style, who has an illness to live with for the rest of his life, who is in a different season of life than I am, who lives in a different situation, city. So I'm hearing my heroes and I'm thinking, okay, this is the devotional this person would recommend. This is the commentary this person would recommend. Don't do these translations, only do these translations. And I'm spiraling stuck when the truth is I know Jesus personally and I know my brother personally. And I can't just give him what would be best for me. I do have to think of how can my brother know Jesus? So I had uncomplicated. This was not that long ago where I had to say, God, I repent of the ways I've over complicated this for my brother. I'm not gonna hand him five commentaries today. Instead, my little brother's middle name is John. And I thought something might click for him, that he's gonna learn something about his namesake. Why don't we go through John? Have you ever read John? You know, and then I didn't send him five commentaries. We picked one, one translation. And I didn't say, you're gonna read it all in a day. I had to think about his learning style. And so we read one chapter a day. The answer wasn't to read it quickly. The answer was to read it slowly.

[Shelley Giglio]

That's great.

[Hosanna Wong]

So we read one chapter a day of John twice.

[Shelley Giglio]

That's so great.

[Hosanna Wong]

We answered two questions. What's something I learned about God? What's something I learned about how to live? And then at the end of the week, and it wasn't even every day, it was five days a week. It wasn't even seven days a week. It was five days a week. And then at the end of the week, we hopped on a call or we met in person, or we got on Zoom and we talked about what we learned. And my brother, how Beautiful, started having a relationship with Jesus. And I learned a lot more about Jesus from a book I've read a lot, but I've never read that slowly. And I just was like, thank you, God, that there is a way for all of us to know your word and to know you in our season. Thank you, God.

[Shelley Giglio]

Thank you, God. I think just the way you're encouraging people to take a step toward him today in their own unique way is so powerful. And I know that there are a lot of women in particular who are listening who feel stuck. They feel like they're just a disappointment, that there's a lot of shame attached to their walk with Jesus. They don't feel like they're growing the way they should. They don't feel like they're taking steps that are in a good direction necessarily. They just feel stuck. And I think it would be amazing if you would pray for them. But what would you say to them before we pray for them? For them to just take one step toward moving out of stuck towards something God might have for their life?

[Hosanna Wong]

What's the one step I have? Okay, this is the one step that I have for me because I often feel stuck too. So I'll say, here's my one step. I would say, I think sometimes we've completely divorced our God life from our real life. And so we see our real life as our piles of deadlines and our piles of laundry and our work responsibilities and our family responsibilities. And then we see our God life as the serene quiet time with no distractions, with the perfect pour over coffee and the perfect pillows. And I think that's a lie from the enemy. Of course, then when we feel like we don't have time for what we've deemed our God life, we feel all this guilt and shame. But did God call you to those spaces and places? Did God call you to love your family? Well, Did God call you to love the people in your life. Well, the truth is that the best way to have a real relationship with God is to have one in the middle of your real life. Your God life is your real life. So my next step for you would be to reframe this and to come to God. If you feel too busy, if you feel too overwhelmed, if you feel too stuck, I would come to God and say, God, what am I doing that you have called me to do? And God, what am I doing that you have not called me to do? What am I busy with that you've not called me to do? And whatever. Whatever comes to your mind, whatever God convicts in your heart that you're not called to do. Capacity. He's not called you to have a pace. God has not called you to have. The answer is not go buy a cute planner. The answer is not will yourself to get more organized. The answer is to repent. Repent of the ways you have set a standard for yourself that does not come from God. Turn away from the things that you're busy doing that is not in obedience to God. And then everything God has called you to do, the way you're showing up for your parents, for your brother, for your mom, for your school, for your church, for those that God has called you to, if God has called you to it, that is not separate from your life with God. That is not at odds with spending time with God. Love God and love people well. Obey God well and spend time with God in the season that you're in. Well, your God life is your real life. So my one thing I would encourage you to do is pray on those two things. What have you called me to do? What have not called. What have you not called me to do? And then I would uncomplicate it and invite God into the real season you're in. Not into the busyness that feels chaotic, into the fullness, into the fullness of all God has called you to do. Obey God and love people well. In the name of Jesus. That'd be my encouragement. Let me pray for everyone. So awesome, God, thank you for this community. Thank you for the Grove community. Thank you for Shelley and Louie and Pageant. Thank you, God, that there is a place where we can learn more about you and go deeper with you before we go wider about you. Thank you, God, for this community. I pray for every person listening, God, that you would help us, Lord. Help us unlearn some of the lies we've believed of what our faith must look like. Or else help us untangle some of the Things, God, that are keeping us stuck. Help us uncomplicate what it has to look like to be in a relationship relationship with you today. We don't want a fake relationship with you. We don't want a spiritual show. We don't want the facade of a relationship with you. We want to know you for real in our real season. So, God, would you come close today, right now, to where we are? And would you be so kind as to be clear? God, would you be clear to everyone listening today? What have you not called us to do that we need to turn away from? And what have you called us to do that we need to keep being faithful into the glory of God? We love you more than anything. You're the best thing in our lives. In Jesus name, Amen.

[Shelley Giglio]

Amen.

[Hosanna Wong]

Amen. Love you.

[Shelley Giglio]

Hosanna.

[Hosanna Wong]

I love you so much.

[Shelley Giglio]

So proud of you. Always cheering for you.

[Hosanna Wong]

Thank you.

[Shelley Giglio]

Love to guy. Tell him we. We are so grateful for him.

[Hosanna Wong]

I will. I'll let him know. Shelly has seen Titanic.

[Shelley Giglio]

I have seen it. Tell him it was. It was a while back, so I probably could rewatch because it's been a minute. I didn't have just two years ago to learn, but.

[Hosanna Wong]

But it really is a good movie. That is amazing.

[Shelley Giglio]

That story will stay with me for a long time. Because I think, you know, I laugh about it, but I'm like, so much of what? People laugh at me all the time. Cause they're like, what do you know at 61? And I'm like, I feel like I know less every day. I feel like I need to learn. There's so much stuff I don't know. And I think that's the perfect picture of this journey of just discovery. Like, every day is an opportunity to learn something, see something, enjoy something, know something that you've never known about in your life.

[Hosanna Wong]

1,000%. There's still a long list of movies I have.

[Shelley Giglio]

What an adventure. What an adventure.

[Hosanna Wong]

God. I could teach the word of God. I mean, I've only been teaching it for 16 years, but that's not nothing.

[Shelley Giglio]

That's not nothing.

[Hosanna Wong]

And still people ask me questions. And I thought, oh, I don't know.

[Shelley Giglio]

I need to find out that. That's a good question. That's. I really need to dig into that a little bit more and try to understand.

[Hosanna Wong]

I love that.

[Shelley Giglio]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

It's just.

[Shelley Giglio]

I love that about God because He just. He's endless. And our quest for him and toward him is just. Can go a whole lifetime and never even scratch the surface.

[Hosanna Wong]

Us. Amen.

[Shelley Giglio]

And I love today that we have that invitation before us. Pretty awesome.

[Hosanna Wong]

So love you, bless your day much.

[Shelley Giglio]

See you soon. Bye.

[Podcast Host]

What a gift to remember that God isn't asking for a one size fits all faith. He's inviting you into a real relationship with him in your real life, in your real season, with your real soil. I'm so thankful for a God that meets us right where we are. We can release the expectations that we've put on ourselves and ask him for clarity on what he has called us to and what he hasn't. Let us learn to abide with God in the season we're in and grow a faith that's real, steady and free. If today's conversation encouraged you, share it with a friend who's maybe been feeling stuck or carrying shame around their walk with God. We pray that it would encourage them too. You can keep up with Hosanna on her Instagram at Hosanna Wong. If you want to stay up to date with all things the Grove, join us [e-mail] and follow along on Instagram @PCC the Grove if you love the show, and we hope you do, leave us a review or tag us on social thank you for joining us today on the Grove Podcast and we'll see you next time.