The Survivor

Summary

The Hand in the Window – Episode 2: The Survivor

Podcast: The Hand in the Window
Host: John Quinones (ABC News)
Episode Title: The Survivor
Date: November 11, 2025

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Overview

This gripping episode traces the harrowing aftermath of a woman’s daring escape from her kidnapper in Ashland, Ohio. After being held captive and enduring repeated assaults, “Jane Doe” risks her life to call 911—setting in motion a police investigation that quickly spirals into something much larger. Detective Kim Major, the only female detective in the Ashland Police Department, emerges as a key figure in piecing together Jane’s story, her connection to the kidnapper Shawn Grate, and unsettling ties to other missing women in the community. As the episode unfolds, layers of Ashland’s small-town character and its most vulnerable residents come vividly into focus.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Life in Ashland and Introduction to Detective Kim Major

• Ashland’s small-town identity—the annual county fair and its sense of community, shaped by economic booms and subsequent decline (00:32–05:50).
• Detective Kim Major's background: 20 years in law enforcement, specializing in sex offenses, known for her empathetic interviewing style (05:50–08:43).
• “It lets people actually see us as human and come up and interact with us.” – Det. Kim Major on community policing at the fair (01:23).
• Major’s morning is interrupted by the urgent rescue of a woman—Jane Doe—who called 911 from inside an abandoned house (02:29–02:49).

2. The Aftermath of the 911 Call

• First Impressions – Jane Doe’s Trauma:
  • Jane is found in distress: mid-30s, battered, and traumatized (06:11–06:59).
  • Memorable Quote:
    “Not her, but I could smell the scent of her perpetrator...his sweat.” – Det. Kim Major (06:59)
• Major moves the interview to her own comforting, thoughtfully designed office, equipped with fidget objects to encourage open conversation (08:43–09:07).
• Major’s Interview Approach:
  • “I try to create an environment so that I can peel away that onion, just get them to talk to me.” – Det. Kim Major (08:53)

3. Uncovering Jane Doe’s Story

• Jane’s Background and Relationship With Shawn Grate (10:03–11:56):
  • Jane ate daily at the Kroc Center, where she met Shawn Grate. They appeared to have a friendly, platonic relationship, shaped by Jane’s strong Christian faith.
  • Quote:
    “This is a woman who is so strong in her Christian faith that no man's phone number's in her phone. Not one. No man crosses the threshold of her door.” – Det. Kim Major (11:23)
  • Jane paints scenes from the Bible and sings scripture, underscoring her innocent, trusting nature.
• The Abduction
  • Grate invites Jane to his home under the pretense of giving her clothes. She’s reluctant, but enters (12:24–12:39).
  • The house is dark, messy, and smells off; Grate claims it’s from forgotten food.
  • Escalation to Violence:
    • While reading scripture together, Grate becomes agitated, seizes Jane's Bible, then attacks and sexually assaults her in “every way imaginable” (13:12–13:46).
    • Jane is tied to the bed for 40 hours, enduring repeated assaults until she escapes and calls 911 as Grate sleeps deeply (13:56).

4. Connecting to Other Missing Women: Elizabeth Griffith

• During her interview, Jane Doe brings up Elizabeth Griffith, a local woman gone missing weeks before (15:10–15:19, resumes at 18:13):
  • Griffith is well-known in Ashland, frequently calling the police for help (18:24–19:29).
  • Jessica Anderson, Griffith’s friend and caseworker at LifeWorks, describes Elizabeth’s outgoing nature but also her mental health struggles and tendency to share too much with strangers (19:07–21:03).
  • Griffith and Jane Doe have overlapping social circles — same apartment complex, both eat at the Kroc Center, strong faith.
  • Jane warns Elizabeth about oversharing:
    • “You can't be telling everybody everything about you. You're going to make yourself a victim.” – Jane Doe, relayed by Det. Kim Major (22:15)
  • Griffith had recently mentioned a mysterious new man, whom friends now realize was likely Shawn Grate (23:10–23:55).
  • Griffith’s disappearance grows more alarming when she fails to appear at LifeWorks and misses meetings with her caseworker (24:03–25:12).
  • The police search intensifies, but the case is unsolved until Jane’s testimony provides a new thread (25:12–25:55).

5. Expanding the Scope: More Missing Girls?

• The realization that Jane Doe and Elizabeth Griffith aren’t the only connections to Shawn Grate.
  • “This is the kind of town where everybody knows everybody.” – John Quinones (26:06)
• Detective Major is asked to confront Grate herself to extract information about “missing girls”—plural—implying potential connections to other disappearances (27:20–28:20).
• Quotable Moment:
  • “This might be your moment to do the right thing. To do the right thing, Sean.” – Det. Kim Major (28:20)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the Human Touch in Policing:
  • “Sometimes I'm trying to talk to somebody about the most intimate, difficult, heinous thing in their entire life.”—Det. Kim Major (08:53)
• On Jane Doe’s Innocence:
  • “She sings. She sang the bible playing her guitar. … She's so wholesome. She's so strong in what she believes in. It's incredible.” – Det. Kim Major (11:39)
• Jane’s Escape:
  • “He was so exhausted that he slept deeply and didn’t hear Jane wriggling free of her restraints, finding his phone and calling 911.” – John Quinones (13:56)
• On Ashland’s Small Town Nature:
  • “There's been time periods where I can roll down the road and if I see someone I don't recognize, I do a double take.” – Det. Kim Major (25:55)
• Challenge Ahead:
  • “The right thing is to tell us where she is.” – Det. Kim Major, pressing Shawn Grate (28:26)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:32–02:49 – Setting the stage: Ashland, the fair, introduction to Det. Kim Major
• 06:11–09:07 – First meeting with Jane Doe; Major’s trauma-informed interview approach
• 10:03–13:56 – Jane Doe’s backstory with Shawn Grate and details of the abduction/escape
• 15:10–15:19 & 18:13–24:27 – Introduction of Elizabeth Griffith and her disappearance
• 22:15 – Jane’s warning to Elizabeth about oversharing
• 27:20–28:33 – Detectives prepare to question Shawn Grate, alluding to wider connections

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Tone and Style

The episode’s tone is respectful, empathetic, and investigative, driven by John Quinones’ narration and Det. Kim Major’s quietly fierce commitment to survivors. The style weaves together trauma, small town life, and the slow-building dread that comes with realizing a local predator may be connected to multiple missing women.

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Summary

This installment of “The Hand in the Window” is a powerful exploration of resilience, community vulnerability, and the dogged pursuit of justice. Through Det. Kim Major’s eyes, listeners experience the immediate aftermath of a shocking abduction, the methodical piecing together of overlapping lives, and the dawning horror that one man—Shawn Grate—might be responsible for tragedies far beyond a single crime. As the investigation widens, the episode sets the stage for deeper revelations in the ongoing series.

Transcript

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[Narrator (John Quinones)]

Fall in Ashland, Ohio, is former detective Kim Major's favorite time of the year. The maple and oak leaves turn blazing orange and deep red, and the county fair comes to town.

[Detective Kim Major]

The whole community goes. The rides, the food. It's just a wonderful time for families. It's a good time.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

The fair runs for a week every September. There's livestock shows, high school band parades, and funnel cake aplenty. As a child growing up in Ashland county, Major used to breed rabbits that were judged at the fair. And In September of 2016, as an Ashland police detective, Major was set to return to the fair, only this time alongside her colleagues to staff a police information booth.

[Detective Kim Major]

So we were really happ about it. It lets people actually see us as human and come up and interact with us. We give out little things to the kids.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

A few days before the fair, the logistics of the booth were weighing on detective Major's mind. Right when she woke up, there was a lot to organize, but that was days away. On this morning, she had an 8am Station shift. So she jumped in the shower and.

[Detective Kim Major]

I could hear my phone on the counter, and I got two phone calls and then I could hear a text alert. So I'm like, okay, somebody's trying to reach me.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

Major ran through the usual mental list. Her husband Dan was at home. So were her three kids. If it was an emergency, it wasn't about them. Still, someone clearly wanted to reach her.

[Detective Kim Major]

So I stepped out of the shower, cut it short, went over the counter, and I looked down and I can see that it's my captain.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

Ashland's police captain David Lay call me. His text read asap.

[Detective Kim Major]

And I called him back and he said, well, he gruffed at me and said, two calls and a text. And I said, I was in the shower. I'm on my way. What is it? And he said, there's been a kidnapping. We've rescued the woman. I need you to come in and interview her.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

It was September 13, 2013, 2016, the morning of Jane Doe's frantic 911 call. Whatever had happened to this woman, the Ashland police department needed Kim Major to get to the bottom of it. Major was the only female detective in Ashland and a skilled interviewer. Detective major didn't know it then, but this case would come to represent a defining moment in her career, One that would taint her love of fall. The fall colors and county fair would soon come to remind detective major of the year her town was turned upside down. From ABC Audio in 2020. I'm John Quinones, and this is the Hand in the window. Episode 2 the Survivor Depending on who you ask, the first county fair in Ashland was sometime around 1850. Back then, the fair was a place for farmers to show off their cattle and for young people to meet and dance. And while the county fair has remained pretty consistent, Ashland itself has survived multiple reinventions over the years. Like many small towns in the midwest, ash Ashland has ridden a kind of boom and bust roller coaster. By the end of the 1800s, Ashland was perhaps best known for a water pump, the Myers pump. It was made in town in a factory that employed hundreds. Farmland was swapped for factory buildings. As more manufacturing moved in. The town population boomed to 20,000. By the 1970s, Ashland was a production capital for all sorts of things. Balloons, golf balls, surgical equipment. But it didn't last. Ashland is right in the center of the rust belt, and when manufacturing declined, the population didn't grow bigger. But factory jobs became fewer, Production moved elsewhere, and squatters took over what were once busy factory floors. Twenty years ago, the red brick pump factory was sold off to a local christian charity. The charity now owned a large patch of downtown ashland, including some vacant land and two old houses. These houses, clad in yellow siding, were on fourth street, Right across the street from a laundromat. Empty and abandoned, the houses sat decaying for years until One September day, a 911 call was made from inside one of those houses. It was the call that ultimately put the spotlight back on Ashland. I wanted to ask kim major about the aftermath of that call. The minutes and hours after Jane doe was brought into the Ashland police. What happens when you arrive at the station?

[Detective Kim Major]

When I arrive, the first thing I noticed is her appearance.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

Jane doe, as she would later be called by the police and the press to keep her real name from the public, was sitting in an empty interview room. She was in her mid-30s, thin, and wearing a tank top and shorts. Her appearance told the detective a story. She had been beaten with cuts and bruises all over her face and body. Major knew she needed medical attention. Her brown hair was greasy, which told the detective that she hadn't showered in several days. Her eyes were Bloodshot and swollen, and her face was streaked with tears.

[Detective Kim Major]

The second thing I noticed was the scent of. Not her, but I could smell the scent of her perpetrator. It's testosterone. I work sex offenses. I could smell him on her. His sweat.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

And you could smell him?

[Detective Kim Major]

I could.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

Early in her career, Major worked for Ashland county in the children and families department. For three years, she investigated horrific abuse cases. Then she joined the Ashland police department. That was more than 20 years ago. Since then, Major has been assigned to many of Ashland's sexual assault cases, adults and children. She had become the go to for cases like Jane does. She'd even been drafted by neighboring counties to help them with their cases. And after meeting Kim Major, I can see why. Out of uniform, she doesn't look like a typical police officer. With long hair and flowy clothes, she could be a high school art teacher. She's soft spoken, gentle. No sharp corners. Her soft approach was at once empathetic and disarming. It made her good at what she did. When it came to Jane Doe, Detective Major immediately had a plan. First, they would need to relocate to a more comfortable space. She got Jane to follow her out of the interview room and down the hall.

[Detective Kim Major]

My office is where I conduct a lot of victim interviews. I have my. Just my personal space set up to be conducive for those interviews.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

Why is that important?

[Detective Kim Major]

Because sometimes I'm trying to talk to somebody about the most intimate, difficult, heinous thing in their entire life. And I try to create an environment so that I can peel away that onion, just get them to talk to me.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

In Major's office, there were tangible objects lying around in different shapes and textures, like a fidget spinner and a heart shaped ornament. Major knew that when people kept their hands busy, it was easier for them to say what was going on inside their heads. Major offered Jane Doe a seat and settled in across from her. Up close, Major noticed more injuries on Jane. Scratches, some beginning to fade, some raw and new. The man Jane said had kidnapped and assaulted her was also being brought to the station. He would be questioned next. Jane's account of what she said he had done to her would determine the potential charges that could be brought against him. What did you learn about Jane?

[Detective Kim Major]

I learned that she eats her noon meal at what we call the Kroc center.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

There are 26 Kroc centers scattered across the country. They're run by the Salvation army and provide a mix of community services. And in Ashland, they offer a free lunch to any county resident who wants One it was there at the croc center, Jane said that she met a man named Sean Great.

[Detective Kim Major]

She explained that she would take walks with him, that they had played badminton outside.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

According to Jane Doe, in addition to playing badminton together that summer, she and Sean Gray went on hikes and played tennis. He'd walk her home from the croc center and they'd sit on her front doorstep talking. Jane said the great also once took her on a long walk to a fort that he'd made in the woods far outside of town. He was good looking and friendly. He had at one point expressed a romantic interest in Jane, but she had insisted that they stay platonic, just friends. She told detective Major that she believed in saving herself for marriage.

[Detective Kim Major]

This is a woman who is so strong in her Christian faith that no man's phone number's in her phone. Not one. No man crosses the threshold of her door.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

Jane's faith permeated every aspect of her life.

[Detective Kim Major]

She paints scenes from the Bible. They're on her walls. She sings. She sang the bible playing her guitar. Is she so wholesome? She's so strong in what she believes in. It's incredible.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

Jane told Major that she had felt safe with Shawn Grate. Major asked her how she'd ended up at the yellow house. Jane described how on Sunday, 11 September, Great had asked to see her. He had some clothes to give her, he said. He asked her to come to his house, a building opposite the laundromat on covert court in downtown Ashland.

[Detective Kim Major]

So she walked to the place where he was staying, and he told her, you know, can you come in? I want to give you these clothes. And she said it was against her better judgment to walk through the door because it's unlike her. But she did.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

The house had boarded up windows, so it was dark inside. When Jane entered the house, she noticed that it was messy with clothing scattered around. There was a strange smell, which Sean said was the result of food he had forgotten to throw away. Jane said that Sean took her through a small kitchen to his bedroom. He sat down on his bed and invited her to join him and read scripture together, which they had done before.

[Detective Kim Major]

So she sat down to read the bible, and as she's reading, he began to pace, and she could see that. And she asked him, like, what's wrong with you? And he kept pacing. And then he charged towards her, grabbed the bible from her hands, ripped it from her hands. And she said something to the effect of, you took. Took my bible, like, what are you doing? And he attacked her.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

And then what did he do to her?

[Detective Kim Major]

Sexually assaulted her. Her words were every way imaginable.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

Jane Doe told Detective Major that Sean had tied her to the bed frame and that he assaulted her repeatedly from Sunday until early Tuesday morning. She said he would come and go from the house, but he left her restrained so she couldn't escape. The entire time she was kidnapped. Jane said she didn't see Great fall asleep until early Tuesday morning. He was so exhausted that he slept deeply and didn't hear Jane wriggling free of her restraints, finding his phone and calling 91 1. By the time Jane was rescued, she had been trapped in the yellow house for about 40 hours. One aspect of their interview that jumped out immediately to Detective Major was that without prompting, Jane mentioned something interesting. A person who had recently gone missing in Ashland. And then Jane brings up Elizabeth Griffith.

[Detective Kim Major]

Yes.

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Narrator (John Quinones)]

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[Detective Kim Major]

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[Narrator (John Quinones)]

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[Commercial Announcer]

If they can only make it home.

[Jessica Anderson]

What's going on?

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

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[Detective Kim Major]

Nothing can stop us from getting off now.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

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[Detective Kim Major]

Anything can happen, right?

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Detective Kim Major]

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[Detective Kim Major]

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[Detective Kim Major]

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[Detective Kim Major]

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[Jessica Anderson]

New secrets and lies are coming out.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

This is going to be catastrophic. We're fighting for our marriages and the.

[Detective Kim Major]

Girls are just putting us through hell.

[Jessica Anderson]

They make everything about themselves. I can't.

[Detective Kim Major]

Hopefully this doesn't end in a bloodbath.

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[Detective Kim Major]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[WhatsApp Narrator]

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[Detective Kim Major]

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[Narrator (John Quinones)]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Detective Kim Major]

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[Narrator (John Quinones)]

Elizabeth Griffith was a local 29 year old. With her round face and close cropped blonde hair, she was recognized all over Ashland.

[Detective Kim Major]

Elizabeth was known in our town. She I know where her apartment was. I had had contact with her. I think we all had.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

Elizabeth was familiar to many of the police officers in Ashland. She often called the department with complaints about her neighbors.

[Jessica Anderson]

Yeah, she very much got the title girl who cried wolf because she would call them about anything and everything.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

This is Jessica Anderson, one of Elizabeth Griffith's friends. They had met at a drop in center called LifeWorks which offered mental health services in Ashland. Jessica worked there. Elizabeth was a client.

[Jessica Anderson]

We couldn't understand it. Like if she wasn't calling us at LifeWorks, she was calling the police department. If we didn't answer her question, she would call the police department and ask them the question. Like, I heard it's going to snow today. Is there any chance that the roads will be closed? Don't know. Elizabeth just started snowing.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

LifeWorks, like the Kroc center, was another social support center for residents of Ashland.

[Jessica Anderson]

So if they were struggling with addictions or with mental health, we would address those issues and have a group about it and help them deal with it. You know, we didn't just single out one person and say, well, this person's going through this.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

Jessica says LifeWorks was also a place for people to pick up skills and build community.

[Jessica Anderson]

We would have cooking classes, we would have art classes. We had a dancing class one time.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

By 2016, Jessica had been involved in LifeWorks for years, working her way up from volunteer to Assistant director. She had known Elizabeth Griffith for all that time.

[Jessica Anderson]

The first time I met Elizabeth was at LifeWorks, and she was coming down the hallway, and I was coming opposite of her, and she was like, hey, you're new here. And I was like, yeah. And she was like, you want to be my friend? And I was like, sure, let's be friends.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

Elizabeth had a lot of friends, people she'd met at LifeWorks and at her church, where she was a regular and enthusiastic attendee. Though she was popular, Jessica said there were also difficult parts of Elizabeth's personality. Jessica said she could be confrontational.

[Jessica Anderson]

She had this thing about when she was at LifeWorks, if people were eating, she would sit beside them and stare at them until they would say something to her. And then she would ask them if she could have the rest of their food. And if you didn't give it to her, then she had a problem with you.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

According to court documents, Elizabeth suffered from mental illness, paranoid schizophrenia, and mania. She didn't have a job and relied heavily on local services. She had a caseworker who helped her manage her budget, and she rented a small apartment in town. Elizabeth Griffith and Jane Doe shared some key similarities. First, they lived in the same apartment complex. Second, they both had a strong connection to their faith. And third, they both regularly went for a midday meal at the Kroc Center. Jane said they knew each other. In her interview, Jane Doe told Detective Major that she'd seen Elizabeth earlier that summer while Jane was spending time with her new friend, Sean Grate.

[Detective Kim Major]

She said that one day while she was playing badminton with Shawn. Great. That Elizabeth Griffith walked up and was kind of pouring out her life story. And she said she told Elizabeth Griffith, you can't be telling everybody everything about you. You're going to make yourself a victim.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

She warned her not to talk to strangers, not to give up too much information. Yes, hearing about that chance meeting earlier in the summer would not have meant much to Detective Major were it not for one key detail. Elizabeth had since gone missing. No one had seen Elizabeth Griffith for four weeks. And just before she disappeared, she'd been telling people, including her friend Jessica from LifeWorks, that there was a new man in her life.

[Jessica Anderson]

She had come in a couple times and talked about this new guy that she had met. We didn't know his name or anything about him, just that they were talking and they had gone on a couple dates.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

Elizabeth told Jessica Anderson that this man wasn't her boyfriend yet. Elizabeth said she wanted him to be, but that he wasn't sure.

[Jessica Anderson]

We Just thought she was talking more stories. We had no idea that it was an actual person, you know, and we. I mean, it was Elizabeth. We never. She would say stuff all the time, and we would never believe her. And, I mean, I guess we could. We should have taken her more serious.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

In late August 2016, Elizabeth's case manager called the lifeworks office.

[Jessica Anderson]

She often called for Elizabeth, so it wasn't anything out of the ordinary. And she had asked if we had seen Elizabeth lately. And so we kept a daily member login. And so I looked back and I was like, well, she hasn't been here in like a week. We haven't seen her. She was like, well, I haven't heard from her. And we had a meeting and she missed it, and she's not at home and I can't find her.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

The case manager, who usually spoke with Elizabeth a few times a week, was getting worried. The last time they talked, Elizabeth was, in the case manager's words, pretty excited about something. They planned to talk soon. Elizabeth was last seen near a supermarket on the outskirts of Ashland on the morning of Aug. 16. By the time she was reported missing, it was Sept. 7. In a Facebook post on Sept. 9, Ashland police shared grainy security camera images. They showed Elizabeth wearing a bright pink T shirt on the last day she was seen.

[Detective Kim Major]

She hadn't shown up to appointments. We didn't know if she had taken off or did she meet somebody online and leave. The whole department was looking for couldn't find her.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

Now, a week after Elizabeth Griffith was reported missing, Jane Doe brought her name up in detective Kim Major's office. Major had a new thought. Clearly, Elizabeth and Jane had something else in common. They both knew Sean. Great detective. Major wasn't sure yet how much weight to give this coincidence. After all, Ashland isn't exactly a big place.

[Detective Kim Major]

I mean, there's been time periods where I can roll down the road and if I see someone I don't recognize, I do a double take. So I didn't find that odd at all that Jane Doe knew Elizabeth because.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

This is the kind of town where everybody knows everybody, right?

[Detective Kim Major]

Yeah, everybody knows everybody.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

Major asked Jane if she thought Sean had attacked others. Jane said she couldn't say for sure, but that Sean had mentioned other women going off on him. He had scratches on his face that he said were from fights with mental women. There was a lot she wanted to ask Jane, but Major had run out of time. She needed to keep the interview short and send Jane for treatment for her visible and invisible wounds. Whatever questions were left would have to be answered. Later. As Major sent Jane for medical treatment, she thought her role in the story was over.

[Detective Kim Major]

When I finished my interview with Jane Doe, I stood up. At that point, I was told my sole purpose was going to be to interview her.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

But while she had been talking to Jane Doe, Kim Major's captain had been questioning Sean Great, the man that Jane said had kidnapped her. And Great was not being as cooperative as they would have liked.

[Detective Kim Major]

And when I stepped out of my office, my captain said, listen, I need you to go in and talk to him about what Jane Doe told you, because you know what she just said. We don't know what she said. Can you go in and see if you can nail down the facts regarding that? See if it parallels what he's saying happened. He told me that he was having a little difficulty with Shawn Grate, that he got upset or got angry. And he said the last thing he said before I walked in was, and while you're in there, see if he knows anything about the missing girls.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

Girls. More than one. Captain Lay wasn't talking about Elizabeth or Jane. There was yet another missing woman in Ashland. And now Captain Lay was asking Major to find out, was Shawn Great the missing link between all three?

[Detective Kim Major]

This might be your moment to do the right thing. To do the right thing, Sean.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

It's the right thing.

[Detective Kim Major]

The right thing is to tell us where she is.

[Narrator (John Quinones)]

The Hand in the Window is a production of ABC Audio and 2020, hosted by me, John Quinones. Produced by Madeline Wood, Camille Peterson, Kiara Powell. Edited by Gianna Palmer. Our supervising producer is Susie Lee. Music and mixing by Evan Viola. Special thanks to Katie Dendos, Janice Johnston, Michelle Margulis, Caitlin Schiffer, Rachel Walker, Annalisa Linder, Joseph Diaz, Jonathan Balthaser, Gail Deutch, Gary Wynn, Stephanie McBee, Natalie Cardenas, and Samantha Wanderer. Josh Cohan is our director of podcast programming.