Podcast Summary: The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos

Episode: How Horror Movies and True Crime Can Make You Happier
Date: October 27, 2025
Host: Dr. Laurie Santos
Guest: Dr. Colton Scrivener, psychologist, Arizona State University
Producer: Pushkin Industries

Episode Overview

In this Halloween-themed episode, Dr. Laurie Santos dives into the surprising science of why many of us are drawn to spooky entertainment—horror movies, true crime, and even tales of the supernatural—and how this fascination might actually make us happier and more resilient. Dr. Santos is joined by Dr. Colton Scrivener, an expert in morbid curiosity and author of Morbidly Curious: A Scientist Explains Why We Can't Look Away, to unpack our collective obsession with fear, threat, and the macabre, exploring how confronting threats in safe, playful ways can help us build emotional regulation and psychological resilience.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Universal Appeal of Fear and the Roots of Morbid Curiosity

[02:30–08:52]

• Dr. Santos (Host): Admits to being a "scaredy cat," curious why so many people, unlike her, actively seek out fear and spookiness for pleasure around Halloween.
• Dr. Scrivener (Guest): Defines morbid curiosity as "an interest in things that are threatening or potentially dangerous" ([04:37]).
• Early Experiences: Scrivener’s own introduction to horror was playing Resident Evil at age 5 or 6, where being able to pause the scary game offered a safe space to face and manage fear ([06:11]).
• Evolutionary Basis: Humans evolved to pay close attention to threats; even animals, such as gazelles, practice 'predator inspection' to safely learn about dangers in their environment ([10:44–13:03]).
• Learning Through Fiction: Unlike other animals, humans can use stories, movies, and podcasts to simulate threats and learn about them safely.

"If zebras could make movies...they would absolutely make movies and TV shows about lions."
— Dr. Colton Scrivener ([13:24])

2. Negativity (Threat) Bias and Why Scary Information Sticks

[07:17–10:35]

• Negativity Bias Reframed: Scrivener suggests we really have a threat bias; humans tend to remember and focus on potentially dangerous information, which once had survival value.
• Memorable Study: People are more likely to relay threatening information—even about mundane products (like shampoo)—than positive or neutral details ([09:00]).
• Morbid Fascination in Modern Media: Our attraction to news involving death or injury and the dominance of violence and threat in storytelling.

"What made it to the end of that chain...were the threatening types of information. So this shampoo can burn your scalp or make your hair fall out."
— Dr. Colton Scrivener ([10:11])

3. Categories of Morbid Curiosity

[15:42–20:53]

Scrivener identifies four broad categories:

1. The minds of dangerous people (true crime, serial killer documentaries)
2. Violence itself (combat sports, action scenes)
3. Bodily injuries/violations (gory effects, medical drama)
4. The supernatural/paranormal (ghosts, demons, aliens) ([15:48])

• These categories are reflected in top entertainment genres and help explain the widespread popularity of horror, true crime podcasts, and supernatural fiction ([18:36–20:53]).

"Raiders of the Lost Ark does a great job of mixing all of these categories."
— Dr. Colton Scrivener ([20:06])

4. Stigma, Scapegoating, and Morbid Curiosity

[24:09–26:53]

• Public Anxiety: Acknowledges discomfort about enjoying morbid content; morbid curiosity is sometimes scapegoated for actual violent behavior (media often points to horror movies or video games after tragedies).
• Reality Check: There’s no strong evidence that watching horror or violent games causes violence; the same curiosity driving us to consume these stories is what drives us to want to know about infamous crimes ([24:32–26:53]).

"The same morbid curiosity that people are blaming for his [Dahmer’s] crimes is also why those people are interested in his crimes in the first place."
— Dr. Colton Scrivener ([26:32])

5. Learning Through Play – Scary Play in Children and Adults

[27:20–33:54]

• Play as Evolutionary Practice: Across species, play helps individuals rehearse threatening or social situations in safe environments ([27:20]).
• Children’s Morbid Play: Games like tag, hide-and-seek, mafia/werewolf are rehearsals for threat detection and social navigation.
• Culture’s Role: Even children’s songs and fairy tales often center on threat, fear, and the macabre ([32:22]).

"Kids are incredibly morbidly curious...Even games that look pretty innocent—hide and seek or tag—are about predators and prey."
— Dr. Colton Scrivener ([28:56–32:12])

6. Morbid Curiosity and Psychological Resilience

[32:50–35:45]

• COVID-19 Study: During the pandemic, people who were horror fans or morbidly curious reported higher psychological resilience.
  • Horror fans had lower physiological distress.
  • Morbidly curious people displayed more optimism about coping.
  • Watching just one pandemic-themed film made people feel more prepared for the real crisis.

"People who were morbidly curious reported higher levels of positive resilience, meaning they were more optimistic about their ability to handle this particular stress..."
— Dr. Colton Scrivener ([34:33])

7. Scary Entertainment and Emotional Coping Strategies

[38:11–50:26]

• Counterintuitive Findings: People who feel anxious are the most likely to seek out horror, contrary to the belief that anxious people avoid it ([38:11]).

"The people who came in feeling anxious...were the people most likely to watch a horror movie."
— Dr. Colton Scrivener ([40:10])

• Three Types of Horror Fans ([40:25]):

  1. Adrenaline Junkies: Seek a mood boost or thrill.
  2. White Knucklers: Genuinely afraid but persevere for the challenge.
  3. Dark Copers: Use horror to emotionally process and cope with anxiety, sadness, or existential fear.
  • Most participants were white knucklers or dark copers who reported that facing fear in a controlled context helped them learn emotion regulation.

• Practice for Real Life: Engaging with fear in fiction provides low-risk practice for handling tough feelings—like testing and improving emotional boundaries ([44:33–45:23]).

"I learned the boundaries of my fear, kind of like what I could handle and what I can't."
— Dr. Colton Scrivener ([44:12])

8. How to Safely Practice Morbid Curiosity and Build Resilience

[45:49–50:26]

• Practical Advice: Don’t leap to the scariest content; start at your own edge and gradually increase intensity—just as psychologists recommend with exposure therapy or skill building ([46:03–47:22]).
• Goldilocks Zone: Most people enjoy fear levels at about 7 out of 10—intense, but not overwhelming.
• Regulation Techniques: It’s healthy to take breaks, cover your eyes, lower the volume, etc.—these are emotional regulation skills that transfer to handling real-life anxiety ([48:47–49:28]).

"Those are emotion regulation skills...when people cover their eyes in a scary scene, they’re regulating their anxiety and their fear."
— Dr. Colton Scrivener ([48:47])

• Over time, repeated exposure strengthens both physical (heart rate, tension) and cognitive coping mechanisms.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Early Horror Gaming:
  "I remember playing the game...thinking, oh my gosh, this is so scary. But...there were ways to kind of get away from the fear for a minute and collect myself."
  — Dr. Colton Scrivener ([06:11])

• Why We Share Threat Information:
  "If I have all this information, am I going to say it lathers this way or am I going to let her know...in some people this made their hair fall out. That’s the kind of information I really want you to know..."
  — Dr. Colton Scrivener ([10:11])

• Children's Morbid Imagination:
  "Turns out the kids...when the town would go to sleep at night...there were these horrible stories about how so and so was murdered and their guts were pulled out...and the kids loved getting justice for that."
  — Dr. Colton Scrivener ([29:27])

• Facing Real-Life Fear via Fiction:
  "People who were horror movie fans reported much lower physiological distress during the pandemic."
  — Dr. Colton Scrivener ([34:22])

• Emotion Regulation Takeaway:
  "What you should do is exactly what developmental psychologists tell us to do all the time—which is kind of go to the edge of what you’re able to do, the edge of what you can handle."
  — Dr. Colton Scrivener ([46:11])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Halloween Love: [02:30–03:23]
• Defining Morbid Curiosity and Early Experiences: [03:32–06:11]
• Negativity/Threat Bias & Storytelling: [07:17–13:03]
• Four Types of Morbid Curiosity: [15:42–20:53]
• Entertainment, True Crime, and the Supernatural: [18:36–20:53]
• Scapegoating Morbid Curiosity: [24:09–26:53]
• Scary Play, Children, and Social Learning: [27:20–33:54]
• Resilience During a Real Pandemic: [32:50–35:45]
• Who Seeks Out Horror—Blockbuster Study: [38:11–40:10]
• Three Styles of Horror Fans: [40:25–44:33]
• Emotion Regulation, Goldilocks Fear Zone, & Practical Tips: [45:49–50:26]
• Conclusion & Host’s Reflection: [50:26–51:04]

Final Takeaways

• Morbid curiosity is an ancient, adaptive trait, not something to be ashamed of.
• Safe encounters with threat—through games, stories, movies, haunted houses—let us practice emotional resilience and coping skills.
• The urge to face fear is strongest when we're young, but its lessons are valuable at every age.
• The most psychologically beneficial "scary play" occurs not at overwhelming levels of fear, but at the "edge" of our comfort zone, and these skills generalize to handling real-life stress and anxiety.
• Embracing (and gently stretching) your own morbid curiosity can be a constructive step towards greater psychological health—and a happier, more resilient you.