Stop Stressing About Stress

Summary

The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos: Episode Summary – "Stop Stressing About Stress"

Release Date: January 27, 2025
Host/Author: Pushkin Industries
Episode Title: Stop Stressing About Stress

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Happiness Lab, Dr. Laurie Santos delves into the pervasive issue of stress in modern life. She engages in an insightful conversation with clinical psychologist Dr. Jenny Tates, author of Stress: How to Soothe Your Body and Mind in Minutes. Together, they explore the science of stress, its impact on our well-being, and actionable strategies to manage and mitigate its effects.

Understanding Stress

Dr. Santos begins by defining stress as the body's natural reaction to perceived threats. She explains how, in the past, the stress response was beneficial for survival, preparing individuals to confront immediate dangers. However, in today's world, this response often remains activated long after the initial threat has passed, leading to chronic stress.

Dr. Laurie Santos (00:54):
"Our stress response is just the body's natural reaction to a perceived threat... Once those stressful events are over, our bodies are supposed to return to normal."

The Problem of Modern Stress

Modern stressors, such as persistent job pressures, financial worries, and the constant bombardment of information, keep the stress response perpetually engaged. This continuous state of alertness not only harms physical health but also exacerbates mental health issues like anxiety and depression.

Dr. Jenny Tates (05:00):
"Three quarters of people say that stress is a huge issue in their lives. And stress is the most commonly searched term that people want help with that they're asking Google to help them solve."

Expert Insights from Dr. Jenny Tates

Dr. Tates elaborates on how humans uniquely exacerbate stress through maladaptive thought patterns. Unlike other animals, humans tend to ruminate on stressors, prolonging the stress response and making it harder to recover.

Dr. Jenny Tates (05:30):
"It's almost like if you imagine you have a small stain and you start trying to remove it in a way that only spreads it... People are incredibly good at getting better if they're given the right tools."

Strategies to Stop Stressing About Stress

Dr. Tates introduces a series of evidence-based strategies designed to help individuals manage stress effectively. These strategies are practical, actionable, and rooted in psychological research.

1. Reappraise Stress (04:14 – 08:24)

Changing how we perceive stress can significantly reduce its negative impact. Instead of viewing stress as purely harmful, Dr. Tates encourages seeing it as a sign of a meaningful and fulfilling life.

Dr. Jenny Tates (08:24):
"How we think about stress is so impactful, so much so that people who have stress and believe stress is bad for their health are actually 43% more likely to die due to stress-related causes."

Key Actions:

• Normalize stress as part of a purposeful life.
• Frame stress responses as tools that help achieve meaningful goals.

2. Stop Rumination (13:11 – 17:34)

Continuous replaying of stressful events can lead to chronic stress. Dr. Tates emphasizes the importance of breaking this cycle through mindfulness and structured reflection.

Dr. Jenny Tates (13:23):
"Rumination is what turns something briefly stressful into something chronically stressful... This is such an awful habit for our mental health."

Key Actions:

• Validate your feelings without dwelling on them.
• Shift focus from "why" to "how" questions to promote proactive problem-solving.

3. Distress Tolerance (17:44 – 21:25)

Developing the ability to endure and accept difficult emotions without becoming overwhelmed is crucial for stress management.

Dr. Jenny Tates (17:44):
"Distress tolerance is all about learning to radically accept what is just as it is in this very moment."

Key Actions:

• Practice facial relaxation to signal acceptance.
• Use affect labeling to distance from intense emotions.

4. Opposite Action (23:50 – 29:43)

Acting contrary to your immediate emotional urges can alter your emotional state and reduce stress.

Dr. Jenny Tates (23:50):
"All emotions aren't just something that we feel. We have a huge role in cocreating them... which reduces our vulnerability to negative emotions."

Key Actions:

• Engage in positive behaviors even when feeling negative emotions.
• Implement actions that align with long-term goals rather than immediate emotional impulses.

5. Hack Your Body (34:48 – 39:25)

Leveraging physiological techniques can swiftly alter your stress response.

Dr. Jenny Tates (35:09):
"Temperature, intense exercise, paced breathing, and progressive muscle relaxation are things we can all do really quickly in a matter of minutes."

TIP Method:

• Temperature: Splash cold water on your face to trigger the mammalian dive reflex.
• Intense Exercise: Perform brief, vigorous exercises like burpees to shift focus.
• Paced Breathing: Slow your breath to reduce respiratory rate and lower blood pressure.
• Progressive Muscle Relaxation: Tense and relax different muscle groups to release tension.

6. Hack Your Senses (39:47 – 42:52)

Engaging the senses can provide immediate comfort and reduce stress levels.

Dr. Jenny Tates (40:26):
"Touch is a powerful tool for self-compassion. Putting two hands on your heart can feel like a hug and signal self-validation."

Key Actions:

• Use self-hugs or massage tense areas like shoulders and fists.
• Incorporate comforting sensory experiences, such as soft fabrics or calming scents.

7. Mental Rehearsal (40:51 – 41:47)

Preparing mentally for stressful situations can enhance coping mechanisms and reduce anxiety when facing them.

Dr. Jenny Tates (41:20):
"Mental rehearsal involves imagining yourself coping effectively with stressors, using the same parts of your brain as actual experiences."

Key Actions:

• Visualize successful navigation of anticipated stressors.
• Replace negative expectations with realistic coping strategies.

8. Use Humor (41:57 – 43:12)

Humor can shift your perspective, making stressful situations more manageable and reducing their emotional impact.

Dr. Jenny Tates (41:57):
"Making someone laugh in a hard moment shifts their perspective and adds joy, which can counterbalance stress."

Key Actions:

• Find and create moments of humor during stressful times.
• Use funny imagery or anecdotes to lighten the emotional load.

9. Plot Out Joy (43:12 – 45:27)

Intentionally planning and savoring positive experiences can build resilience against stress.

Dr. Jenny Tates (43:12):
"Intentionally planning things to look forward to and savoring them creates a buffer against stress and enhances life satisfaction."

Key Actions:

• Schedule regular enjoyable activities in your calendar.
• Reflect on and savor positive experiences to reinforce their impact.

Conclusion

Dr. Santos and Dr. Tates wrap up the episode by reiterating the importance of these strategies in managing stress. They emphasize that while stress is an inevitable part of life, understanding and implementing these techniques can transform how we respond to and cope with stressors, ultimately leading to a happier, more fulfilling life.

Dr. Laurie Santos (47:50):
"These strategies have changed my life, and I believe they can transform yours too. By addressing stress proactively, we create positive ripple effects not just for ourselves but for those around us."

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Notable Quotes

• Dr. Laurie Santos (00:56):
  "Our stress response is just the body's natural reaction to a perceived threat."

• Dr. Jenny Tates (05:00):
  "Three quarters of people say that stress is a huge issue in their lives."

• Dr. Jenny Tates (08:24):
  "How we think about stress is so impactful, so much so that people who have stress and believe stress is bad for their health are actually 43% more likely to die due to stress-related causes."

• Dr. Jenny Tates (23:50):
  "All emotions aren't just something that we feel. We have a huge role in cocreating them."

• Dr. Jenny Tates (35:09):
  "Temperature, intense exercise, paced breathing, and progressive muscle relaxation are things we can all do really quickly in a matter of minutes."

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This episode provides a comprehensive guide to understanding and managing stress, blending scientific research with practical advice. Whether you're grappling with daily stressors or seeking long-term strategies for resilience, Dr. Laurie Santos and Dr. Jenny Tates offer valuable insights to help you lead a happier, less stressful life.

Transcript

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Pushkin.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Hey, Dr. Laurie Santos here. Here at the Happiness Lab we spend a lot of time talking about the happiness benefits of being a fan.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

And it just so happens that another Pushkin podcast has gone deep into this topic. It's a show called against the Rules.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Hosted by best selling author Michael Lewis. Michael Lewis is the brains behind books.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Like Moneyball, the Big Short and Liar' Poker.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

This season of against the Rules is all about sports fandom, but also sports.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Gambling, which was legalized in the US.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Just a few years ago. From a happiness perspective, this is a fascinating topic.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Michael talks with gambling addicts, but also pro basketball stars, Vegas bookies, and even.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Experts in casino design. I also get to make an appearance. I really enjoyed our conversation.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

So if you're a little bit curious.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

I urge you to check out against the Rules and subscribe. Wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Stress sucks, but it's also a normal part of life and one that's also kind of useful. Our stress response is just the body's natural reaction to a perceived threat. Whenever we detect an Incoming challenge. The limbic systems of our brains kick in. We switch from our usual breathing and digesting to a physiological state that's revved up for action. Our stress response is there to prepare us for big scary events like fighting off a tiger, giving an important presentation, or having a tough conversation with our boss. But once those stressful events are over, our bodies are supposed to return to normal, our breathing should slow down, and we should go back to digesting lunch. At least that's the idea. Sadly, our modern stress responses aren't all that great at turning off, especially since we keep challenges alive, ruminating about past events and worrying about problems that haven't even come up yet. Thought patterns like these cause our bodies to react as if we're in immediate danger, even when we are. And what's most ironic, since we know that stress is bad for us, we often get stressed out about just feeling stressed. So how can we stop stressing about stress? To figure that out, I've turned to one of my favorite experts.

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

My name is Dr. Jenny Tates. I'm a clinical psychologist and I am the author of Stress how to soothe your body and mind in minutes.

[Podcast Host]

You're kind of an expert on this, but what is stress? Like, how would we define it?

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

So stress is when there's like this mismatch between our resources, what we have internally, and the demands that we're facing. It's almost like our bandwidth. It's when there's just too much coming at us and we feel like there's not enough in us to cope. But the good news is is there's a lot we can do to improve our relationship with stress. Small things can make a huge difference in how we face stress. And the most common measure of stress is actually the perceived stress scale, which says so much about how stresses, a lot about our perception.

[Podcast Host]

And so give me a sense of like, how stressed out people are these days. Like, what are some stats on what we're self reporting about our stress?

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

Three quarters of people say that stress is a huge issue in their lives. And stress is the most commonly searched term that people want help with that they're asking Google to help them solve. And, and that's kind of why I wrote this book, because you shouldn't have to ask Google for help with this. There are experts and there's a lot of counterintuitive wisdom that a lot of people just don't know about that I want people to know. And a lot of it was even surprising to me researching this book.

[Podcast Host]

As we think about stressors in some way, it sort of makes sense evolutionarily, right? Like all animals have stress. They have to find food, or maybe there's predators and so on. But an interesting thing about humans is that we seem to do it a little bit differently. We seem to kind of exacerbate the normal kinds of stress. And so explain why this is like how humans make things worse by the way we think about stress.

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

I love this. I mean, I think a downside to being human is we have a knack when stress shows up in our lives for inadvertently making it so much worse. I mean, it's almost like if you imagine you have a small stain and you start trying to remove it in a way that only spreads it. I mean, it's painfully ironic. It's like people that are worried about money can easily go into overspending. People that have a tough deadline that there is ambitious to reach go into like hyper perfectionism or total avoidance. And so I think one of the reasons that stress excites me is when the limbic system is on fire, we just don't think clearly. But people are incredibly good at getting better if they're given the right tools. And so if you even just take a step back and think about it, I want to first start by validating stress is a lot of us are stressed for very good reasons right now. And also that's all the more reason that we deserve to be really kind to ourselves and compassionately notice if when stress shows up in our lives, we fall into patterns like overthinking and avoiding or acting in ways that keep stress afloat. That could even be avoiding the things that might help you, like spending time with family or sticking with a nice plan for yourself or an exercise goal, even if the work is really piling on. And so I think stress is real. And also, we as people, animals, don't overthink. We overthink. And that's a deep downside to being human. But with the right strategies, we can reduce our stress, I think, exponentially.

[Podcast Host]

And this is why I love your book so much, because it's like this, like, almost like a medicine cabinet of different strategies that we can use when we're feeling stressed out. Like, if I'm feeling sick, like, I can go to my medicine cabinet and there are some, like cough drops or ibuprofen, or if I need a band aid if I'm cut. And like, your book is almost like a version of this, this for stress. I took away so many very practical tips that I've been using and that I'm so excited to share with my Happiness Lab listeners. And so I want to go through my favorite tips that we get from your book, starting with tip number one, which is that there are strategies we can use when we need to reevaluate stress. Explain why how we think about stress seems to matter.

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

How we think about stress is so impactful, so much so that people who have stress and believe stress is bad for their health actually are 43% more likely to die due to stress related causes. And so worrying about stress just compounds stress and makes stress more harmful and stresses you out more. It's almost like when you're really stressed and someone tells you to calm down might rev you up more. And on the flip side, normalizing stress, seeing it as an opportunity for growth, almost seeing it as a pop quiz in life about your ability to manage emotions and live by your values. Seeing stress as normal and adaptive and also framing your body stress response as helpful and useful and supporting you in moving towards your goals actually reduces, you know, the negative impacts of cortisol, reduces your cortisol levels and allows you to persist in pursuing meaningful goals.

[Podcast Host]

And so any specific strategies for helping us to reappraise stress is a more.

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

Positive thing, I think to really believe, and this is something that I wholeheartedly believe, that stress is the price of a meaningful life. That is not sitting on the couch watching sports all day and eating whatever and barely having any steps taken. That is doing hard things. And we know when we treat patients with depression that behavioral activation, creating a schedule full of opportunities for both pleasure and accomplishment and social connection, which can be stressful, that is the path forward. And so really changing your mindset about stress and also looking at yourself of like, what am I doing when I'm living my best life? Maybe the things that are most meaningful are also kind of stressful.

[Podcast Host]

You've also talked about how we can reevaluate how our emotions work. I think when we're in the thick of really strong emotions like anxiety or kind of frustration, it can feel like we're going to feel like that forever. But what does the research really show about how quickly emotions change?

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

I love this. So emotions are really transient. I was going to get a tattoo, which I'm not going to get. It would be a small little picture of a wave. Because this is one of my favorite things to remind myself of. Emotions come in waves. And again, the downside to being human is when something's upsetting, our brain goes to, I'm going to feel this way forever. It's getting worse. This is how I feel now. I'll never be able to survive. But that's just not life. Our emotions really ebb and flow, and psychologists call this effective forecasting. We're notoriously bad at predicting how we're going to feel in the future, and we grossly underestimate our ability to bounce back. And one of the interesting things that I do with my clients is we watch movie clips. I mean, people don't go to therapy expecting to watch short movie clips. And we watch short clips of a deathbed scene, which will make any person with a heart feel moved to tears in a matter of 60 seconds. We watch a scene where there's a gunshot, and that also, understandably, would evoke fear. So we go from sadness to fear. There's a short clip on the cost of college tuitions and how difficult it is to pay off your college loans, which evokes anger in most people. Then we watch something happy and the Pharrell Happy song and people are dancing in their chair and in a mere matter of minutes, people have gone through so many different emot and in our own lives we might get really disappointing news. But then also, if we're able to anchor ourselves in the present moment and be fully present, we might have a moment of awe when looking at an adorable puppy passing us by. But the key is really anchoring ourselves in the present moment.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

It's time to take a quick break, but we'll soon be back with another top tip, one that's especially helpful if you let stress throw you into a doom loop. The Happiness Lab will be your right back.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

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[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Clinical psychologist Dr. Jenny Tates believes that stress is the price of a meaningful life. But what we do need to guard against, she says, is dwelling on what's stressful, worrying about it, and fearing it.

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

Rumination is what turns something briefly stressful into something chronically stressful. So an event could have been, you know, a two minute exchange with someone at work, and literally two weeks later it could still be replaying on your mind. And this is one of the habits that really correlates with an increased risk of depression, anxiety. It is just awful for our mental health. And as many of us know, we could ruminate almost constantly. You know, I talk about this this myself, noticing earlier in my career that I used to be in yoga class and noticed that my mind was totally somewhere else. And so this is such a sneaky habit that we could have an internal news ticker that's going all the time, that's very unpleasant, that steals any opportunity for present joy. And if a person is asked in a research setting to talk about in detail the most upsetting thing that happened to them, even if it occurred decades ago, their body recreates the same physiological stress response decades later. And so even talking about your stressors in a lot of detail might seem therapeutic and cathartic, but it actually can be kind of a version of ruminating out loud. And even if you feel like you are a professional ruminator, there are a lot of things that you can do to break free of this noxious, sneaky habit.

[Podcast Host]

So give us the details. How can we break free? What are some strategies we can use?

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

I think the first thing is taking a step back and asking yourself, what do you make of your thinking habit? Because a lot of people have very interesting metacognition, these beliefs about their boss. Some people think if there's a problem that hasn't been solved, thinking about it is somehow inching me closer to some sort of big solution or epiphany. Other people think I'm going to drive myself crazy. And what's interesting is like the same person can have both very negative and very positive beliefs about their thinking. So I think taking a step back and really taking a look at is this habit helping you? Are you getting closer to your goals? Or is this removing you from the ability to have better perspective and managing your emotions for better problem solving? So I think the first thing is really deciding that this is something, something you want to put two feet into working on. And of course, if you do want to think about it, there are constructive ways to think in a more thoughtful way. Problem solving is very different than this circular vicious loop that's unproductive. And if someone wants to start to work on this and they feel like they do this all the time, I think it's helpful to get really clear on a specific goal. And so if you find that you're repeating an upsetting work exchange after hours and it's coming up in your dinner conversations and it's gnawing at you before work, really setting a goal of like from 6 to 7:30pm I am going to be present from 7am to 8am during my morning commute and getting ready. I'm going to be setting myself up for a better day, so setting reasonable goals. I also really love swapping why thoughts with how thoughts. Why did this happen? Why was I assigned this annoying assignment and someone else got a promotion? The why thoughts with how? How can I move forward? Because one is kind of a tornado and a dead end and another is kind of an empowered plan.

[Podcast Host]

One of the ones I really love, and one that we've talked about in the Happiness Lab before, is the importance of switching from ruminating in your head to ruminating maybe on paper, to kind of get into the mode of expressive writing. How can writing help us kind of get out of the ruminative loop?

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

Yeah, so I would say that writing is a little bit different than rumination because rumination is pretty circular and writing has a beginning, middle, and an end. So it kind of closes things out, rather than keeps things in a spiral. And the goal with expressive writing is to actually go deeper into your feelings. And so instead of just glossing over things, the instruction that's given to people, college students who were given an assignment to write about the most upsetting thing that happened to them in detail for 20 minutes and then go back the next day for 20 minutes and write about how it had affected their life in the past, and Write again a third day for 20 minutes about how it's affecting them in the present, how it might affect them in the future. People that wrote in this very detailed, structured way, going deeper into their feelings and actually like processing, were much less likely to be depressed and had reductions on scores and rumination even six months later, because writing is actually creating some working distance and allowing you to feel rather than kind of glossing over details with no structure.

[Podcast Host]

So those are awesome tips for nipping your rumination in the bud. Now we get to tip number three, which is that we can reduce our stress by engaging in a little distress tolerance. What's distress tolerance?

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

Distress tolerance is a combination of things. Distress tolerance is I like to think about. If you step back and think about, how are you making your life worse? You're usually not accepting, overthinking, and doing things that make you feel better short term, but that are like high interest credit cards you pay a big price for later. And so distress tolerance is all about learning to radically accept what is just as it is in this very moment. That sounds overwhelming. Even accepting with your face, just relaxing your face, the facial expression of acceptance actually creates this mindset that allows you to be more accepting. If I'm sitting in traffic and clenching and tensing, that's just creating a space for me to get more judgmental in my mind, but relaxing my face for myself, not for other people, actually kind of starts from the outside, and I start to feel more accepting. I love this story. I have to tell you, I. I just taught radical acceptance in a prison last week, and I learned something so brilliant from one of the people in my class who said it shouldn't be called radical acceptance, it should be called radical options, because when you stop fighting, there's so many options.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, my gosh, that's so insightful. I mean, you've also talked about how we can do this simply through the act of labeling, just by kind of being a little bit more specific about which kinds of distress tolerance we're going through.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Right?

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

Even labeling your emotions, just putting a word onto what you're feeling, whether that's angry, Then getting really specific about I'm feeling angry. Like, on a 0 to 10 scale at a 5, just. Just putting labels on your emotions actually activates the part of your brain that will help you regulate your emotions. And so it seems very simple, like putting a word on your emotion, but it actually starts the process of regulating your emotions. And I even just think about it as, like, you go from kind of swimming in it to getting some working distance from it.

[Podcast Host]

Using your example of that traffic, this is something that I learned from your book is, like, the last time I was sort of sitting in really terrible traffic, I was like, ugh, limbic systems, you know, going ridiculously crazy. I'm going to just use the affect labeling. And I was just, like, frustrated, like, really frustrated. And, you know, kind of, like, annoyed, a little bit sad. And it was so funny. It sounds so silly. And I think even when I first started it, I was almost doing it a little, like, facetiously. Like, I'm doing affect labeling, but I'm kind of not sure it's gonna work. But, like, ultimately I'm like, yeah, it's frustrating. Like, that's what it is. Like, it's just an emotion. I'll kind of get through it. And so it has this act of labeling, has this power that I think we often don't expect, where it really takes, like, the oomph out of our emotions when we realize, you know, it's just a thing I'm experiencing totally.

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

And one thing that I like to do that's kind of the next step to this is even just noticing beyond the specific emotion, we all have different states of mind. We all have a kind of an emotional mind where we're governed by our feelings. We all have a reasonable mind where we're just focused on the facts. And then we all also have, like, wise mind, which is the integration of head and heart and our intuition. And so sometimes we're feeling really intense emotions, and we keep them afloat by we're really angry, and then we're thinking more angry thoughts and getting more suspicious and agitated and even just simply categorizing. I feel angry. I'm an emotion mind. I'm very likely to be like velcro or quicksand for all sorts of content that is going to exacerbate that feeling. We have spam filters in our inboxes, but we need kind of test spam filters in our minds. And this is one of the first, most practical steps to mindfulness is just noticing I'm in emotion mind. I Feel anxious. I'm in emotion mind. And there's nothing wrong, by the way. Emotion mind is amazing. If you are at a concert, if you're dancing, if you're watching an amazing movie, Emotion mind is amazing. You just want to make sure that you're in the right state of mind at the right time. So if you're about to go into a meeting and you feel angry, noticing that you're on an emotion mind is going to be a path towards freedom and wisdom.

[Podcast Host]

And so that's a tip of how we can, like, navigate our distress. But you've also argued that we don't just need to sit with our distress stress. We can do something different. We can take action so that we feel less stressed. Why is it so hard to remember that we can kind of change our stress around and take action to fix.

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

Things when we're stressed, we're just not thinking clearly and we. Our mind goes to, like, big fixes. But I think we need to remember that, like small wheels on a big suitcase, a little can go a long way. And so because we're bad at remembering this, I like to encourage people to create a hope kit, like a collection of items that you can keep handy that just reminds you about the things that have enriched your life and give you a sense of faith and perspective and joy in just looking at them. And this sounds kind of silly, but even people that are struggling with suicidality or people who are facing a cancer diagnosis, having a hope can actually significantly increase hope. So again, our mind goes to kind of selectively filtering everything is terrible. I need to do something big that's going to make me feel better right now and make me feel so much worse later. But if we do something small that's less sexy that we've created in a time of wisdom that we can access quickly, we can make so much headway. And so for me, just having a couple of notes people have written to me handy and a picture of my grandma holding me when I was a baby helps me bounce back so much more in the face of rejection than what my mind wants to do, which is like lump every rejection on top of the one that I'm experiencing in this moment. And different things work for different people and for people thinking about what would I want to put in a hope kit? I think really thinking about things that touch your senses, that help you be mindful. But it's really hard to be mindful. But if you can be mindful, painful by really taking a few minutes to look at photos of you and Your friends and maybe have a nice playlist going with the photos and have your favorite scented candle, you know, right at your desk so you don't have to grab it from a closet. Or like being truly self compassionate. And the thing that I want to tell people is like the difference between healthy self soothing or having a hope kit. And what we often want to do is we often kind of totally avoid and don't do things to kind of give ourselves a quick pick me up. We take a total like detour. We, you know, maybe we need a little bit of gas, but we don't want to like park ourselves in the gas station and not go to our final destination. And so the hope kit is kind of a little pick me up that can then actually bring you forward.

[Podcast Host]

Another way that we can take action is to literally act the opposite. You've actually referred to this as the ultimate mental health hack. This idea of behavioral activation. What does this mean?

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

So all emotions aren't just something that we feel. Emotions are created when we have thoughts and then the thoughts create physical sensations in our bodies and then we have action urges. And so if I feel sad, I'm probably thinking thoughts about not being good enough or things are too much for me to handle and I'm really overwhelmed and lonely and then maybe in my body I feel heaviness and tension and then my behavior might be something like withdrawing or overthinking or just mindlessly doom scrolling. And so emotions don't just happen to us, but we have a huge role in co creating them the same way we can co create our stress. And so a lot of times sometimes people think that acting how they feel will kind of help them. But these are actually technically known as emotion driven behaviors. And what they do is they intensify our feelings. And so you need to take a step back and notice what is the emotion that you're feeling, what is the emotion driving you to do? And is doing that thing ultimately going to help you? And so short term, it might feel kind of nice to do the thing that your emotion wants you to do. But if you actually want to change the course of your life, you need to act differently than how you feel. So if you feel ashamed and you withdraw, you're giving into shame. Shame is winning, you are losing, you're going to maintain shame, you're going to grow shame. Shame is going to be the defining quality of your life. You're going to continue to feel like the biggest loser. But if you feel shame and put your phone away and make eye contact with people at a party and introduce yourself to the people that you actually want to speak to. Like, it's hard to believe, like, I'm okay. But when you have lived experience that people are nodding and people are validating you, your shame starts to shrink. And so across all mental health conditions, the evidence based treatment is when an emotion is not justified, acting opposite the emotion will significantly improve not only how you feel, but your quality of life. And so if you're unhappy in your marriage, maybe you want to like replay the past mistakes and send angry text messages and complain to people, but doing something slightly nice for your partner, that feels like something you could do without being resentful or begrudging. And the TR is that you need to do this all the way. Opposite action is like not the splits, it's two feet in it's mind and body. So if you're doing something nice, you're not having an inner narrative of no one does this for me. This isn't right. It's with your head and heart that I care about this person. I want them to have a delicious cup of coffee when they wake up and see if my feelings will change as a result of this. So opposite action is helpful with couples therapy. Opposite action is the cornerstone of all treatments for anxiety disorders. When your fear does not fit the situation you're in, acting different than how you feel, whether that's practicing panic as a cure for panic or taking up public speaking, if that makes you want to run the other way.

[Podcast Host]

And I think even kind of the typical emotions that often go with stress, right? Like even when you're feeling overwhelmed, I think sometimes acting opposite has been the sort of thing that helps me.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Right?

[Podcast Host]

Like I'll look at my calendar and the calendar will just be feeling like, oh my God, it's overflowing. I'll take a moment and think like, well, what would I be doing if my calendar wasn't overflowing and I was feeling overwhelmed? Like, I'd text a friend and sort of check in. I'd use these five minutes. And so these sort of nourishing ways rather than sort of ruminating and checking my email. And all of a sudden when you act like that, it doesn't change the overflowing schedule, but it just puts you in a better mindset so that your physiology is not feeling kind of overflowing and overwhelmed in the same way. It's like such a powerful hack. Like even when you don't expect it to work and it's different than faking it. I think this Is one of the things that people get wrong about this idea of acting opposite. You think, well, I'll just pretend like I'm not feeling overwhelmed. No, no, no. So it's really about engaging in the actions, right?

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Yeah.

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

And just to come back to the stress, because I think that's so powerful. When we're stressed, we're often juggling too much. We're again, putting ourselves in this place where we can't possibly meet the demands because we're juggling too many things, we're carrying too many bags. Something's gonna break. But what if we just do one thing at a time? Oftentimes when we're stressed also, we start doing, like, pseudo productivity, which is called, like, procrastivity, which is like clearing out your inbox rather than working on the. The talk that you need to give. And so just starting with a workable goal and doing it with your singular focus and being clear on, like, what is the thing I would do if I felt capable of doing this or if I really was being a good friend to myself and a good cheerleader. And so I love this because I think the only way out of stress is doing what you would do if you were acting spacious, which is, you know, not being overly perfectionistic and actually facing the thing that you need to face one thing at a time, and stopping this.

[Podcast Host]

Procrastivity. I had not heard that word. And it's like my new favorite word for 2025. Like, that a thing I need to reject very, very much.

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

Well, the cool thing about that is even noticing it is kind of like labeling your emotions. It's like this light bulb moment where it's like, oh, no, I think I need to start cleaning up my desk. Procrastivity. And then it's like a nice pivot. The thing about faking it is faking it is. When I think about that, it's. That sounds almost like suppressing your emotions. So it's like pretending that you feel really calm when you're giving a keynote. And that is going to be really stressful. If you feel really stressed. If instead you accept. It makes total sense that I feel a little shaky because this situation really matters to me. And allow yourself to feel those feelings. You're going to be in a much better position to actually speak and sign up for those kinds of opportunities. And so it's not faking it. And some of my clients tell me that they don't feel like their emotions are changing right away. And what I tell them is, it's okay, like, if you feel really annoyed with someone in your family, but it matters to you. Part of one of your values is including them in your life. It's okay if the first time you meet up with them for coffee, you don't immediately have more feelings. The goal of opposite action is not just to feel better, it's to have the life that you want to live.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Taking opposite action is such a clever strategy. If you're feeling flustered and panicky, just act relaxed and you can slow your roll. If you're feeling like you want to scream and let out your inner hulk, force yourself to speak as calmly and gently as possible. It's time for another short break, but Jenny will be back with more tips when the Happiness Lab returns in a moment.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

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[Chase for Business Host]

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[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Welcome back. This final portion of the Happiness Lab's guide on how to stop stressing about stress is presented by Amazon. So far, Dr. Jenny Tates has explained.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

That we need to acknowledge and accept.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Our stress response, but her next tip was a big revelation, at least for me. Jenny says we deal better with stressful situations if we can keep in mind that we're enduring the stress for some greater noble cough us.

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

I think when we're stressed, we're just zooming in on what's immediately in front of us and we don't have a broad perspective about what matters. And it there's like a Zen story about a man riding a horse and someone asks him, where are you going? And he says, I don't know, ask the horse. And that is a really stressful way to live. The only reason to work in a job that you don't necessarily like might be to feed your family. And connecting the dots that I'm willing to do this even though it's uncomfortable because I care about putting food on the table actually make something that's difficult a little bit more tolerable and meaningful. And so having a larger sense of purpose actually helps us manage our emotions and studies. People that have a clear sense of their life purpose actually bounce back faster when they're faced with emotional content like looking at painful pictures. People that have a clear sense of purpose, their body stress response bounces back faster. I just think if we just practically, we all deserve to have kind of a sense of what we want our lives to stand for. And one of my favorite things to do when stressed feels like it's all consuming, is simply taking a step back and listing if you like, I'm too busy. I don't have time to think about my life purpose in like a big way or like a mission statement that's really solidified. Simply taking a step back and thinking about, okay, these are the things in my life that matter to me. You know, I would love for people to take a moment to think about this right now. You know, health, relationships, hobbies, giving back, career, there's so many things that matter to us, right? And taking a step back to write out what matters to you and then maybe how you want to show up in each of those domains and then depicting the relative weight of each of those facets of your life in a Pie chart can even help give you some perspective if things are not going well right now with a specific relationship. Maybe that's 10% of your life pie, but in our minds, it can easily become 85% of our life pie. And so having a clear purpose helps us see our lives more holistically and helps us be more willing to do the things that are hard.

[Podcast Host]

As we talked about these strategies, like, you've given us so many awesome evidence based tips, but I know that sometimes what happens when I'm stressed is like, I know these tips, but it can still feel like really overwhelming to kind of engage with them, right? There's this sort of hesitation that creeps in that even though I know these strategies, it's like, oh, I don't have time to think about my purpose. I just need to do something. That's an incredibly quick hack. And one of the reasons I really love your book is that you also have strategies for that too. When everything is feeling really overwhelming. And that gets to tip number six, which is that when all else fails, we can sort of hack our body. Why is hacking our body so helpful when it comes to stress?

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

So many people think that they need something outside of themselves, a medication or a drink to feel better. But your body's actually your best pharmacy and we often forget how to lean into our body being our best pharmacy. But in a matter of minutes, you can dramatically improve how you feel, if you know how.

[Podcast Host]

And so what are some like super simple hacks of changing the way our body is responding?

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

There's one that I introduced called tip, which I think about as almost like the control alt delete for your body. And T.I.P. is an acronym. T stands for temperature, I is intense exercise, P is paced breathing, and the final P is progressive muscle relaxation. And we'll go through those. The first thing with the temperature is taking a salad bowl and filling it with ice water and setting a timer for 30 seconds, holding your breath and submerging your face in the ice water. This sounds like some sort of weird TikTok trend, but there's a lot of research behind it. We all have a mammalian divert reflex. And when the human body is submerged in cold water without oxygen, it slows down our heart rate and redirects blood flow from non essential to essential organs. And so even if this sounds really weird, if you are wearing an apple watch, your heart rate will decrease significantly when you do this. And yes, the point of life is not to be submerging your face in ice water, but if you're in a moment and you're making things worse for yourself and you feel like you're panicking and you're. You have thoughts that aren't serving you. In 30 seconds, you can do something that shifts your physiology and also shifts your mental state and also reminds you that you can do something difficult and that you can feel different in a matter of seconds. I should just say that this is not a good strategy for people that have heart conditions because your heart rate will come down quickly. But the ice face is something that people are really surprised when they're in a vicious cycle of rumination or if they feel frozen. Freezing. Your face will surprisingly unfreeze you. And then I is intense exercise. And this is not running a marathon or going to a 60 minute workout class. Just briefly doing something like burpees for a minute or two or running in place, but bringing your knees up to your nose as best you can doing something like that. These things are changing your. Your body and also your mind. You're not going to be able to be thinking the same thoughts. P is paced, breathing is slowing down your respiratory rate. On average, we breathe about 18 breaths per minute. And if we slow our breath to about a third of that by breathing in for five, we can all do this together. Breathe through, through your nose. You could gently close your lips. In for five and out for five. If you do that for several minutes, that actually lowers your blood pressure.

[Podcast Host]

Or even just once. Honestly, I would just. I just did that with you and now all of a sudden I'm like, oh, I actually do feel better. Just so funny. It's one of these things where people tell you if you're upset, like take a deep breath. And it sounds so kind of frustrating. But what it's really doing is it's hacking a part of your body that's kind of incredibly hard to hack. You're really hacking your parasympathetic nervous system.

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

Totally. I think the only qualifier is if you feel like you can't breathe. That is not the one I would go to. But other than times when you're feeling panic. Yeah. Taking a deep breath. And I have to tell you, Lori, I was blown away. Working on this book, I interviewed Dr. Richard Brown and Dr. Patricia Gerbarg, who are psychiatrists affiliated with Columbia University, who moved away from prescribing medications to prescribing breath work, who are teaching breathing all over the world, therapeutic breathing exercises, even right now to people in Ukraine. And they are telling me that people in war zones are actually finding tranquility within. And I was so moved by this fact that a portion of the proceeds from my book is going to their foundation. Because we think, yeah, taking a breath is not going to really change my reality. But it does. It expands your ability to cope with your reality. And we need to strengthen our inner system to deal with a stressful outer system. And then the final P is progressive muscle relaxation. And so a lot of times it might feel like the only way for you to relax is to get a massage. But you can give yourself a quick massage even if this isn't something you've tried before. This is quite easy to do by tensing your forehead and releasing and noticing the difference between tension and relaxation in your forehead. And then with each in and out breath, releasing more and then doing the same with your lips, tensing your lips by bringing your lips together, releasing. A lot of us don't even realize that we're, our shoulders are touching our ears and we're scowling and we're tightening our fists especially. And there's so many things we can do to just create a little bit more space in our bodies. And again, the temperature, intense exercise, pace breathing and progressive muscle relaxation are things we can all do really quickly in a matter of minutes. And I don't think that you're going to have anything but a sense of expansiveness and present focus.

[Podcast Host]

Another thing we can do in a matter of minutes is your tip number seven, which is that we can hack our senses. One of my favorite versions of this is your idea that we can comfort ourself with touch, which is something that I've taken from your book, just kind of remembering, like, oh, I can put on some fuzzy socks, you know, I can give myself a little self hug. Talk about why our senses can be so powerful for changing our stress response.

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

We get into this two punch of our mind is bullying us and then our bodies feel like they're rebelling against us. But doing something like if you just received difficult feedback, like putting two hands on your heart, heart can really feel like a hug. And this sounds corny, but there are studies that show this to be true and doing small things to self validate that communicate that our feelings are normal and to be expected. And I mean, I think self compassion is so key in finding ways through touch. And from the moment we're born, we're comforted by touch. And this is something that people really crave and really complained about during periods of isolation during the pandemic. And giving your friends a hug is so lovely. And if you're on your own, you.

[Podcast Host]

Know, massaging your shoulder, giving yourself a hug works pretty well too. So those are all strategies we can use, maybe after something stressful happens. But your book also goes through things we can do to get ahead of things before stress starts so we can kind of beat it. And one of my favorite strategies in this, which is my tip number eight, is that we could mentally rehearse to kind of protect ourselves. What do you mean by mental rehearsal here?

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

So there's this incredible thing that when we imagine a situation in our mind, if we actually rehearse ourselves in that situation, we use the same parts of our brain that we'll actually use in the situation. And so oftentimes we're facing something that seems overwhelming and we do the opposite of this. We worry, we dread, we expect the worst. But if we swap dread with coping ahead, actually imagining, not overly idealistically, but realistically, this thing is going to come up. I'm going to sit down at my desk, I'm going to want to go bounce around social media news sites, but instead I'm going to close everything out, set a timer for this amount of time that actually sets us up to do just that. The mental rehearsal. This is something that a lot of sports psychologists use. It's really helpful. I found it personally helpful with writing this book or just like the mental rehearsal of sitting down to do deep work. But I think it's a powerful way to use our resources to set us up for success rather than to set us up for not believing in ourselves and struggling.

[Podcast Host]

Another resource we can use to help ourselves kind of ahead of time is we can use a little bit more humor. We can find humor before the stress kicks in. How is humor so helpful for fighting stress?

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

I love this. I just feel like if you can make someone laugh in a hard moment, that really shifts their perspective. I find humor so personally liberating and joyful. And we, we all need. I mean, I think it's almost like life is like a seesaw. The more positive emotions we elevate, the more negative emotions come down. And this is something that's true even in the research. People that are focused on a newer treatment called positive affect therapy, they reduce their anxiety and depression, even if that's not targeted. And so being able to like, laugh and play with your yourself and giving your anxiety of funny, like, I don't know. When I was living in New York, I lived on top of a candy store. And in the window of the candy store there was this big stuffed animal called Grumpy Cat. Maybe just you Know, noticing like, okay, grumpy cat's coming around. That's a quick way to kind of get some distance and perspective and to play with it. And I think going through life looking for funny things kind of shifts your perspective. And humor is not only good for you, but also for the people around you.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it's a way of kind of regulating not just your stress, but the stress of the people that you happen to find yourself with. It's such a good tip number nine. Now we get to my final tip, which sort of builds on this idea of bringing in positive emotions. We can protect ourselves by plotting out our joy. And you argue you should even make appointments with our joy. Kind of explain what you mean there.

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

It's so easy to feel like when I have time, then I will call that friend or finally go to see a movie in the theater or figure out an nice hiking trail in my neighborhood. But actually, like, we need to plot joy to have the energy. We need to again, like, expand our inner resources. And doing things to cultivate positive emotions actually reduces our vulnerability to negative emotions and creates a buffer for stress. And so intentionally planning things to look forward to and then learning to actually really savor them. So if you did something pleasant, to repeat it in your mind or even actually say it out loud is what experts say to do the specific highlight of that experience. Like if you met up with a friend, like even just the moment of your eyes catching one another's across the room and then running to give each other a hug, like in this cute coffee shop that smelled like, I don't know, fall. That is so helpful because again, I think we just go from hard time to hard time and we need to realize that planning and savoring moments of pleasures, like putting money in your bank account, that offsets your stress and also allows you to enjoy your life. And. And a huge thing that we need to remember is doing these things is not just good for us, but good for the people around us. And it's really hard to bring positivity to the people that you care about if you are running low.

[Podcast Host]

One of my favorite things about the strategy is that you talk about planning this ahead of time. Because I know that for me, especially when I'm feeling really stressed and overwhelmed, there can be some friction about adding in these pleasant things. But if it's already in the calendar, right, I already have a movie night with my friends, or I've already planned dinner, you know, know, with people I really care about, who I'm going to have a really Fun time with weeks in advance, then it winds up sticking around. So I love the sort of anticipatory, adding the pleasure in ahead of time so that it's there when you really need it.

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

Yeah. And I think what you're saying is so impactful because we can anticipate it and savor it and then re experience it afterwards. And then I think also just strategically having it in your calendar. This happens to me all the time. If I know that I have a hard stop time that makes the time right before that much more productive. And so I think just knowing I gotta be finished by this time because I have this dinner on the calendar actually leads to less, you know, bouncing around between tasks and more monotasking. And so I think it's good for joy and it's also good for the things that are stressing us out to actually tackle those.

[Podcast Host]

So we talked about kind of ways that we can deal with stress. But, you know, sometimes stress dips into the clinical. Right. For example, if somebody's going through a moment of total panic. Any particular tips for tackling that? When things get really out of hand.

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

For people that have panic, one of the most surprising things people don't realize is that practicing panic is the path out of panic. And so rather than worrying, I'm going to be on the freeway and I'm going to start sweating and I'm going to feel like I can't breathe, and I'm going to feel like I can't drive safely, rather than waiting for that moment to surprise you and catch you off guard. If you can practice panic, if you can recreate those very physical sensations that you are praying will never pop up in your life, if you can actually practice those on purpose in a safe space, spend a minute hyperventilating. Surprisingly interoceptive exposure, facing those physical sensations that you want to avoid is one of the most proven paths out of panic. And it works surprisingly well. And it works in a relatively short amount of time. Doing this in a safe environment helps you kind of metaphorically put out a welcome mat when these things show up. Because what we often do is almost like a Chinese finger trap. We feel physically uncomfortable, we judge it, we feel more constricted. The more we fight, the more stuck we are. But if we can lean in and have an attitude of been there, done that, I've practiced this at home. I know what this is. Just like my emotions come in waves, my physiology changes when I don't hyperfocus on it. It's a really liberating technique that I've been blown away by its impact on my clients.

[Podcast Host]

So listeners should definitely check out the book and they should also check out this stress reset deck you have, which is just like little cards that explain these things. You don't have to flip through a whole book to find them. I'm just so curious. Writing this book has kind of having all these strategies at the ready helped you get through really stressful periods.

[Dr. Jenny Tates]

I wrote this book because having these strategies that I've learned over the past couple of decades has changed my life. I mean, these are like beads of a necklace that I wear constantly and I feel like they're too precious to keep to myself and I want everyone to access them. And certainly in moments when I stressed out, I take a step back and notice what am I doing, how is my thinking not serving me and what is a change in my behavior that I can quickly pivot towards because because we all deserve to improve our moments and these improve our days and this improves our whole life and this creates a positive ripple effect not only in us but with the people around us. And so these certainly have changed my life and opposite action is a total way that I live my life lifestyle.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

That final part of my interview with Dr. Jenny Tates on how to stop stressing about stress was presented by Amazon Pharmacy and Amazon One Medical Healthcare just got less pain. Learn more at health.Amazon.com I can't recommend Jenny's Stress Resets book enough. It's packed with so much good advice, far more than we've been able to fit into this show. But let's recap the wisdom that Jenny's shared. Tip one Sounds simple, but it's hard. You have to accept that stress is the price of a fulfilling life. Challenging things give us purpose and fun and all the social connection we need. The next tip is to stop all that rumination. Letting your mind think about a stressful situation over and over doesn't do you any good. Nip these looping thoughts in the bud by asking yourself how you're going to move forward. Tip three is all about building up distress tolerance. Practice accepting tough feelings when they arise so you don't drown in them. Tip number four is not to let stressors dictate your behavior. If you're feeling down, do the opposite and try something fun and energetic. If you're feeling enraged, engaged with someone, do something nice for them. Even if you actually want to be a bit mean. Zoom out from your stress and remember why you're doing what you're doing. Are you enduring a difficult situation to improve your life or the life of someone you love, a bit of stress might start to seem worth it for that long term gain. Hack your body. Don't reach for a drink or a pint of ice cream to change your mood.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Shock yourself with a blast of water.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

A deep breath or even a burst of exercise to halt that stress response response in its tracks. Tip number seven follows along from that.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

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