Stop Wasting Your Energy — Here’s What to Do Instead (with Dr. Diana Hill)

Summary

The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos
Episode: Stop Wasting Your Energy — Here’s What to Do Instead (with Dr. Diana Hill)
Release Date: January 5, 2026

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Overview

In this kickoff episode to the "Getting Unstuck in the New Year" season, Dr. Laurie Santos welcomes psychologist Dr. Diana Hill to discuss how we often waste our precious energy striving for the wrong things — and what science-backed strategies we can use instead. Drawing on Dr. Hill’s new book (“Wise Effort: How to Focus Your Genius Energy on What Matters Most”), they explore how to cultivate "wise effort," get unstuck, and align our actions with our values for a more vital and meaningful life.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why We Get Stuck: The “Bird in the Window” Analogy

• [02:35] Dr. Diana Hill: Shares the story of a bird trapped inside, banging relentlessly against a closed window. Humans do the same in their lives:
  • We try the same solutions harder and harder, “smashing” into invisible barriers until we’re exhausted or defeated.
  • This can lead to self-blame, exhaustion, and ultimately "learned helplessness."
  • Quote: "If I just fly harder at this relationship, or I work harder in a work setting that's actually toxic for me, maybe that will get me out. And that can lead us to just feeling exhausted... or to the very classic psychological problem of learned helplessness, where we just say, there's no way out." — Dr. Diana Hill [03:32]

2. The Trap of Sunk Cost and Losing Sight of Purpose

• [05:19] Dr. Diana Hill: Shares her own experience: continuing a successful podcast despite panic attacks and growing dissatisfaction, due to the 'sunk cost fallacy.'
  • Real change required letting go and realigning with her deeper values — even if it meant starting over.
  • Quote: "It was finally in the letting go. It was turning around, looking around, are there other options here? That freed up my energy... I had lost my purpose, my values, and the deeper things." [05:19]

3. The Importance of Wise Energy

• [06:59] Dr. Diana Hill: One energized hour aligned with your values can transform your whole day, and misalignment leads to dissatisfaction.
  • Quote: "When our behavior is out of alignment with our values, it actually can really de-energize us." [06:59]

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The Seven Strategies for Wise Effort

1. Get Curious ([08:52])

• Curiosity opens possibility and counteracts judgmental, closed thinking.
• Practicing curiosity (even with oneself) undermines the "I already know" or "I'm critical" mindset that keeps us stuck.
• Journaling (done right) helps step back, gain flexible perspective, and foster this curiosity.
  • Quote: "It's hard to be curious and judgmental at the same time." — Dr. Diana Hill [08:52]
  • Journaling Prompt Example: List 5 thoughts, 5 feelings, 5 behaviors; draw your stuckness.
    • "[Journaling] Just that stepping back from something... you'll have a different perspective on it. And flexible perspective taking is incredibly helpful when we are stuck." — Dr. Diana Hill [12:33]

2. Clarify and Connect with Values ([14:11])

• Values are not generic lists, but "qualities of action," what makes life most vibrant ("lifey").
• Periodic reflection: When did you feel “life at its most lifey” today? Those are clues to true values.
  • Quote: "What brings you a sense of aliveness? What deep in your heart really matters to you? How do you want to show up in the world?" — Dr. Diana Hill [14:11]
• Aligning daily energy with values increases intrinsic motivation and meaning (though not always short-term enjoyment).
• Reflecting on values in connection with goals (e.g., exercise, study) improves persistence and outcomes.

3. When in Doubt, Seek Variation ([22:21])

• Learn from robotics: if stuck, try new behaviors outside your usual repertoire — a “get unstuck button.”
• Psychological flexibility and openness to experimentation, rather than rigidly sticking to failed solutions, can lead to breakthroughs.
  • Quote: "We need variation in our behavior... when we get scared... we tend to have a narrowing of attention and a narrowing of our behavioral repertoire. That narrowing actually leads us to stay more stuck." — Dr. Diana Hill [22:21]
• The evolutionary process: Variation, Selection, and Retention.

4. Embrace Discomfort ([25:07])

• Avoiding discomfort often creates secondary problems (e.g., procrastination, numbing, distraction).
• The projects we avoid most are often the ones we care most about.
  • Quote: "The things that matter to us are often the things that cause us the most discomfort." — Dr. Diana Hill [26:19]
• Radical acceptance—allowing reality to be as it is without approval—creates room for change and authentic action.
  • Quote: "There's a difference between acceptance and approval... Radical acceptance is exactly what we described. This is what is." — Dr. Diana Hill [28:09]
• Acceptance frees us to pursue valued goals even amid pain or imperfection.

5. Work with Your “Rooster Mind” ([30:46])

• Minds “crow” constantly with thoughts; don’t fight or follow every thought, but notice and choose where to focus energy.
  • Quote: "Our mind is constantly producing thoughts. Some of those thoughts may be helpful, some... unhelpful. And when you follow or fight your mind, you get pulled off track..." — Dr. Diana Hill [30:46]
• Cognitive defusion: Step back from your thoughts instead of getting tangled up in them.
• Apply “wise speech” to inner dialogue using these questions:
  1. Is it kind?
  2. Is it true?
  3. Is it timely?
  4. Is it helpful?
  • Quote: "Just asking those questions... can give you that step back enough to engage in wiser speech with yourself." — Dr. Diana Hill [33:11]

6. Embodiment: Tune into Your Body ([36:35])

• Many people are disconnected from their bodies (“walking heads”); true embodiment means being aware of sensations, emotions, needs.
• Interoceptive awareness (noticing hunger, fullness, tension, emotion) correlates with better decision-making and emotional flexibility.
• Use bodily sensations as guides for wise choices — the concept of a “whole body yes” or “whole body no.”
  • Quote: "Being embodied means living inside this bodily form... Do you know your own heartbeat, your own breath, your own hunger?" — Dr. Diana Hill [36:35]
• The H.E.A.R.T. check-in:
  • Hunger/fullness
  • Emotions
  • Activity/movement
  • Rest
  • Tension

7. Detect & Manage “Energy Frenemies” ([44:19])

• Our strengths can become liabilities or “frenemies” if overused or misapplied.
  • Example: excessive humor avoids seriousness; over-helping neglects self-care; constant scheduling sacrifices presence.
  • Quote: "Sometimes that [strength] can spin off and become a frenemy." — Dr. Diana Hill [44:19]
• Regret, dissatisfaction, or a lack of vitality signal misalignment—use them to course-correct toward your values.
• Ask: "How do you want to show up right now, and how can your gifts support that?"

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dr. Diana Hill (values alignment):
  • "I really encourage my clients before bed to do a little scan of their day and when did they feel life at its most lifey? You'll be surprised. It's often not where we're putting most of our energy. It's in the in betweens..." [14:55]
• Variation & Evolutionary Analogy:
  • "One principle of evolution is that you need variation to evolve. ... So we need variation in our behavior." [22:21]
• On Radical Acceptance:
  • "There's a difference between acceptance and approval. Radical acceptance is... this is what is. And once you can acknowledge this is what is, even if I don't like what is, you're welcome not to like it and still accept it." [28:09]
• On Embodiment:
  • "Being embodied means living inside this bodily form. And part of that has to do with something called interoceptive awareness..." [36:35]
• Energy Frenemies Illustration:
  • "Regret is a powerful indicator to help us course correct. We can use vitality and values... the big question is how do you want to show up in this moment?" [45:42]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Bird in the Window Analogy: [02:35]
• Personal Story of Stuck-Energy & Sunk Cost: [05:19]
• Curiosity and Journaling: [08:52]–[13:46]
• Values and “Life at its Most Lifey”: [14:11]–[16:03]
• Variation/Behavioral Evolution: [22:21]
• Embracing Discomfort, Radical Acceptance, ACT: [25:07]–[30:26]
• Working with Rooster Mind & Wise Speech: [30:46]–[35:07]
• Embodiment & H.E.A.R.T. Check-in: [36:16]–[42:54]
• Energy Frenemies & Realignment: [44:19]–[47:44]
• Recap of All Seven Strategies: [47:44]

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Final Recap (by Dr. Laurie Santos) [47:44]

1. Get curious: Use perspective and journaling to understand your patterns.
2. Clarify your values: Find what makes your life “lifey.”
3. Seek variation: Try new approaches if you’re stuck.
4. Embrace discomfort: Accept imperfection and move forward.
5. Work with your mind: Choose which thoughts deserve your energy.
6. Tune into your body: Physical awareness guides better choices.
7. Watch out for energy frenemies: Redirect overused strengths back toward values.

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Dr. Hill’s wisdom and strategies, presented through insightful stories and practical science, lay a roadmap for using one’s energy to live with greater intention, resilience, and joy in the year ahead.

Transcript

[Podcast Host]

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[Podcast Advertiser]

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[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Pushkin. Welcome back to a new season of the Happiness Lab and Happy 2026 Happiness Lab listeners There's something so hopeful about the start of a new year. For many of us, January feels like a clean slate, a chance to start fresh as the healthier, happier person we want to be. But if there's one thing we know about human nature, it's that behavior change is hard. We set goals, make resolutions, feel motivated to do things differently, and then we slip back into exactly the same habits we had the year before. The ones we know just don't work. So the goal of this new season of the Happiness Lab is to give us the psychological traction we need to break out of all the ruts that we've been stuck in for a while. Rather than give you the usual New Year platitudes, we'll be exploring strategies that research shows can actually help us get unstuck and back in motion. Over the course of the next few episodes, we'll we'll hear science backed tips for embracing the kinds of changes that feel scary, for finding a sense of purpose in the midst of exhaustion, and for feeling less overwhelmed with the current state of the world. And in this first episode in our Getting Unstuck in the New Year season, we'll tackle the challenge of unsticking our effort. We'll explore how to use our time and energy a bit more effectively, which is so important if we want to feel less stuck in 2026. Because, let's face it, a lot of us are putting a lot of energy into the wrong kinds of things to better understand just how much unwise effort can keep us trapped. Today's guest, the psychologist Dr. Diana Hill, invites you to think of a bit of an animal analogy. Imagine, if you will, an unfortunate little bird who has accidentally made its way indoors.

[Dr. Diana Hill]

And it does what birds do best, which is I think what humans do, too, like, we want to get out when we feel stuck, and we go out in the predictable ways that maybe worked at some point to get us unstuck.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

For a panicked bird, that means flying as hard as possible into the nearest bright window.

[Dr. Diana Hill]

It's smart. It wants to go for that tree, right? But what happens when that bird flies at a window? We all know it's that painful experience of hitting its head.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

And sadly, that poor little bird might not hit its head just once. It will probably continue smashing itself into the glass over and over. Rather than pausing and rethinking its path to the outside world, it just starts pushing into the glass even harder, using more and more of its energy to slam into the window until it winds up exhausted or hurt or worse. Diana has worked with lots of humans who are feeling stuck, and she says they don't behave all that differently from a frantic bird.

[Dr. Diana Hill]

Like, if I just fly harder at this relationship, or I work harder in a work setting, that's actually toxic for me, maybe that will get me out. And that can lead us to just feeling exhausted, right? It can lead us to blaming ourselves. And it also can lead to another pattern, which some of us can get stuck in, which is the very classic psychological problem of learned helplessness, where we just say, there's no way out. There's nothing I can do here. There's no other possibility. I've tried everything, you know, as hard as I can.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Sound familiar? Well, not to worry, because Diana is here to help us get our energy back on track. In fact, she's the author of a new book on just this topic. It's called Wise how to focus your genius energy on what matters most.

[Dr. Diana Hill]

So, as a psychologist, I've been training in and involved in this concept of psychological flexibility for a really long time. And what that bird actually needs is, is not to fly harder at the same thing. Maybe it could use a little rest, a little rest on that kitchen floor, but not to, you know, give up, but to use its energy differently. That may be look around, look in places that you haven't looked before, try new things, and there may be an open door. And that requires you to be flexible in your attention, but then also flexible in your behavior. And it doesn't mean you shouldn't fly. So you can still be the bird that you are, but shift that energy and attention to get out and to free yourself from whatever place you're stuck in.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Diana is a clinical psychologist and an expert on getting your energy unstuck. But she admits that she too has been in situations where she was putting too much energy into the wrong things.

[Dr. Diana Hill]

Well, in 2021, I was on a podcast that I had been working on for a number of years. I put a lot of energy into it. On the outside. It had, you know, close to 2 million downloads. And there's a term in psychology, the sunk cost fallacy. You know, we've put so much time and energy and effort into it, so therefore we keep doing it even if it's not working for us. And what I started noticing is that I would have a panic attacks before I'd go on team meetings. I started to just feel like my heart wasn't in it anymore. I wanted more freedom, I wanted more flexibility. I wanted more creativity. But I kept at it and I just kept on going harder at it and became quite inflexible to the point where I became unpleasant to be around. I became more controlling. It was finally in the letting go. It was turning around, looking around, are there other options here? That freed up my energy. And it took a bit of a, as many people experience when they're starting something new, of having to go back to the beginning. My ego take a bit of a beating. Like, yeah, I gotta start from zero here and I gotta give some of this up, but why am I doing it? I had lost my purpose, my values, and the deeper things that maybe were driving me starting a podcast in the first place. And so I had to remember those again.

[Podcast Host]

And so this was really a story of trying to make sure that your energy was going in the right direction. And this is really the subject of your book, how we can put wiser energy into things. You've argued that we need to pay attention to where our energy is going, that this matters a lot. Why does it matter so much?

[Dr. Diana Hill]

Well, energy is kind of everything, right? One hour of something that brings you vitality, of something that opens you up, of. Of even something that's a little bit hard for you, but the end of it, you feel regenerated by is an hour that could shift your whole day, right? When our behavior is out of alignment with our values, it actually can really de energize us. And that's why a lot of people come to work with me as a therapist, is because there's a misalignment of who they want to be, how they want to show up, and then it's showing up in dissatisfaction with life.

[Podcast Host]

And so sometimes we're throwing way too much energy into the wrong things. In your book, you mentioned this idea that our striving can sometimes get us stuck. And this is something that I resonated with a lot. Talk about how our energy can be both a gift and a challenge.

[Dr. Diana Hill]

Pretty much anyone in your life, you can think about their genius qualities, the things that make them them, the special characteristics and strengths and aptitudes and that show up, that make them bright. Those can also become a problem for them if it's not channeled with wisdom. So, for example, with me, that podcast, there was a point of diminishing returns where I needed to shift. I needed to be like the bird in the kitchen and look around and do something different. And that takes some discernment. It takes, where do you want to put your energy, what your values are, and, you know, curiosity and mindfulness.

[Podcast Host]

And so we're going to be exploring really deeply your strategies for kind of figuring out how to deploy our energy in as wise a way as possible. I think all my listeners should check out your book to see all the strategies that are in there. But today on the podcast, we're going to focus on my favorite seven, my favorite seven strategies for getting your effort back on track. And a big one is one that you just mentioned, this idea of getting curious. Why is curiosity so essential for getting our energy back on track?

[Dr. Diana Hill]

Well, one thing about curiosity is it's hard to be curious and judgmental at the same time. You know, if you watch a 2 year old, I used to have 2 year olds many years ago, and you try and take them for a walk or a puppy, you try and take a puppy for a walk and they stop at every snail, they stop at every caterpillar. And when they pick up that snail or that caterpillar, they get down real close to it and lean in. They don't really come at it with the oh, gross. And they don't really come at it with a I already know how this works mind. So as we become more inflexible in our thinking, we tend to take on these cognitive inflexibilities of I already know, so I no longer see what's there or I'm judgmental, critical, right? So curiosity is the practice of open mindedness. And I would say I kind of think curiosity and openness is the new mindfulness. Psychology goes through all these trends. I've been in the field long enough to see the trends change. So I'll tell you, the next thing that's coming down the road, down the pipe is openness. So much so that Jonathan Schooler, who's at UCSB out here, is changing the name of his center, from the center of mindfulness to the center of openness. Because it's a little bit different than mindfulness. It's staying open to the field of possibility. And when you are stuck in unwise effort, often it's because you're that bird flying at the window, and you. And you are not open. Either your mind is not open, you've already decided, or you're being judgmental, or you're stuck in a story. But the nature of curiosity is also interesting in that the more curious you are, the more things people experiences can become rewarding to you. Every single client that comes into my office, I am deeply curious about, and I am not judgmental about the behaviors or ways that they're stuck. I'm curious about their patterns. What's keeping them stuck? What are the different complex networks of processes that are contributing to their stuckness? Could we almost, like, map it out? Like we'd map out a route on a page of how we get from A to B. And when you take that stance towards your own self rather than the judgmental or I already know stance, you're more likely to see possibilities to get you unstuck.

[Podcast Host]

But it can also be hard to do that. And one of the practices you've recommended to get a little bit more curious is the act of journaling. Why is journaling so powerful for getting us to become a little bit more curious if done the right way?

[Dr. Diana Hill]

I'm so glad you said if done the right way, because journaling can also be a practice in rumination, and we know that from some of the research. If you're sitting there ruminating about how life sucks, then you may feel a little bit more stuck in your mental patterning about life sucking. So with journaling, there can be a practice of a little bit of what we call cognitive diffusion or a little bit of stepping back and looking at yourself rather than being in it. And if you journal with some prompts or there's a really classic journaling exercise that I have clients do, which is just right now, what are five things that I'm thinking? What are five things that I'm feeling? What are five behaviors that I'm engaging in? And then can I draw my experience? I also like journaling without language and NY's effort. The book I draw it. I'm like, this is what it feels like when I'm stuck. Scribble on the page. It's like the flight pattern of that bird that's all tangled up. What does it feel like inside of you? Draw it and Just that stepping back from something sort of like if you are really up close to a screen and you see that you know all the pixels of the screen and you take three steps back, or you take three steps back from a painting, you'll have a different perspective on it. And flexible perspective taking is incredibly helpful when we are stuck. So journaling can be a way to do that. Then we can also use our journal with that flexible perspective taking and that curiosity to potentially look at many different views. You know, like, what would be a compassionate view? What would be a view from the end of the week if you were to look back on those thoughts, feelings and behaviors? Sometimes with clients that are stuck in negative body image, I'll have them write a letter from their body part to them. What would your stomach tell you? You have a lot of things to tell your stomach. I hear it all the time. But what would your stomach say about what it's like to be your stomach? You know, what does your stomach say it needs? What does your stomach say it wants? What does your stomach wish for you? And it shifts your perspective on pretty much anything that you are critical of.

[Podcast Host]

So that's one way to get our energy back on the wiser track, right? Get curious, get some perspective, maybe even do that through journaling. But another tip that you talk about a lot in the book is this idea that if we want our energy to go in the right place, we need to better align our energy to our values. You have this quote that I love, that when your energy becomes a problem, it's often because your gifts and talents aren't aligned with your values. What are our values and why are they so important to pay attention to?

[Dr. Diana Hill]

You know, there's a lot of talk about values and folks will have lists of values. You could go on chat and say, give me a list of a hundred values and we come up with all these words. But I think of values as qualities of action. What brings you a sense of aliveness? What deep in your heart really matters to you? How do you want to show up in the world? What do you want to stand for?

[Podcast Host]

In your book, you note that our values are often the clue to what makes life its most lifey. I love that quote because for me it was like, oh my gosh, what makes my life the most lifey is like humor or social connection or kind of doing fun things, being a little bit adventurous. I don't tend to think of those exactly as my values, but when I think about my life at its most lifey, those are the things that come.

[Dr. Diana Hill]

Up before bed oftentimes is when we worry about stuff, we think about the day, we ruminate on the day, or we worry about what's going to happen tomorrow. I really encourage my clients before bed to do a little scan of their day and when did they feel life at its most lifey? You'll be surprised. It's often not where we're putting most of our energy. It's in the in betweens. Like for me, life at its most lifey. I have this little strawberry plant outside my kitchen door and so I planted this little strawberry plant and I've been watching these strawberries change color and it's life at its most likely growing something, right? Life at its most likely. Two weeks ago was taking my 16 year old son and his best friends in a car trip down the coast of California, surfing and being completely on their schedule and standing outside and watching them surf. It's life at its most likely. Growing strawberries and surfing with teenagers is not how I spend most of my time or energy, but it tells me a little bit about maybe how I want to be spending more time and energy, what I want to be amplifying.

[Podcast Host]

And it's also a great way to figure out how to make whatever you're doing a little bit more enjoyable. One of the things I know you talked about is all these studies where if you can just reflect on your values and how that connects with what you're already doing, it actually makes you do the thing you're trying to already do better and perform better. Tell me about some of these studies.

[Dr. Diana Hill]

Well, there's a classic study that Steve Hayes did with college students who set smart goals at the beginning of a semester. And you know, we think about these smart goals as being specific and meaningful and timely. And many of us have tried smart goals. But what he found was when he added values writing to the smart goals, like why do you care about getting better grades? Why does it really matter to you? What's important to you personally about that? And you know, values are like favorite colors. Yours may be green and mine may be blue. Two kids may have totally different reasons why they care about their grades. And he found that folks that set the smart goals plus the values writing did much better at the end of the semester. They had a significant increase in improvement in their grades. Those that set smart goals alone didn't see that improvement. You mentioned makes things more enjoyable. But I would tweak that a little bit because living your values doesn't always make things more enjoyable. We know that from Parenting and the research on happiness and parenting where parents aren't necessarily happier, but they do report more meaning. So living your values may help you have more intrinsic motivation. I have written quite a bit on exercise and psychological barriers to exercise. And if you connect your exercise to your values, why does it matter to you to have more physical fitness in your life? What will open up for you? People will say things like, I want to get on the floor with my grandkids. I hate sitting in the chair. I want to actually get down and build the blocks with them. Or other people may say, I want to travel and be able to walk through the airport and feel stronger as I walk because I love travel so much. When you connect to those intrinsic reasons, those things that are deep down inside meaningful to you, you're more likely to stick with it, but it doesn't necessarily make it more enjoyable.

[Podcast Host]

Fair enough. It also means that we need to disconnect not just maybe from the enjoyment, but also from the outcome. This is something I loved hearing you talk about your strawberries. Right. You were just kind of enjoying the process. And this seems to be something that's critical about values. Values aren't about the outcome. They seem to be more about the process. How do we get closer to focusing on the process so we can get closer to our values?

[Dr. Diana Hill]

Well, one of the challenges about outcomes is our finish lines seem to keep on moving forward. You know, you think about people that are. They go on and they get their degree and then their postgraduate degree, and then they. It's sort of like the game of life. I don't know if you ever played that game.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, my gosh, yes.

[Dr. Diana Hill]

Well, I actually bought the game for my kids when they were little. And I was horrified about what we're teaching our children through the game of life. And because it's this path that you're on, and you get a little car and then you put little pink and blue people in it, which is a problem to begin with. And then you take the car along and you try and get money and you try and get degrees and you try and get to the end where either you have a mansion or a ranch or a shack, and once you get to retirement, you're done. Right? You won. What about the whole path along the way and enjoyment? Yes, but meaning. And just the process, the process of growing the strawberry is very different. I could go to the store and buy some strawberries pretty easily. And actually, the outcome of those strawberries, I'm sad to say, is they got a little.

[Podcast Host]

They got a little sounds like you're gardening similar to mine.

[Dr. Diana Hill]

Yes, much of my garden gets eaten and it's not about that. So we know that our finish lines keep on moving forward and so trying to go for the finish line is problematic. We know that focusing on the outcome can interfere with our ability to be in the here and now. And it's not that we don't have goals. You make values based goals, but you're also flexible if you don't reach those goals. And focusing on the process can make our effort feel different because we're in it. If you focus on the process of writing a book versus the outcome of the book, your experience of writing is so different. While I was writing this creative process of thoughts coming to me and following this trail and having conversations with people about this idea, it's incredibly exciting and invigorating and brings a lot of vitality when you're in the process, whatever that process is.

[Podcast Host]

It's time for a quick break, but.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

When we return, Diana will share more of my favorite tips for getting your energy back on track this year. The Happiness Lab will be back in a moment.

[Podcast Advertiser]

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[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Clinical psychologist Dr. Diana Hill is on a mission to help us allot our energy in healthier ways so we can stop putting effort into the things that don't serve us and start investing in stuff that benefits our well being. So far we've heard two great tips from her new book, Wise Effort. But strategy number three is one I like to call when in doubt, seek variation. A principle that Diana borrowed from an unlikely set of teachers. Autonomous robots in war zones.

[Dr. Diana Hill]

So Dave is my brother in law and he designs what he calls the brains of robots. He designs self driving planes, he's Worked on Segways and robots that go into war zones and look for mines. And one of the things that he designed that he said was his favorite thing was something called the get unstuck button. And what this button does when deployed is if the robot is stuck. Can you imagine a robot stuck in a cave? Right. It's designed to do everything in its repertoire other than what it's doing. So this robot may jump up and down, it may hit its head against the wall, it may crawl down real low, it may go backwards, it may go sideways. And eventually the chances of that robot getting unstuck are much higher than the robot doing what it was doing. But this maps onto behavioral evolution. We have a lot of interest in evolutionary psychology and how evolution can inform our understanding of human behavior. But there's also something about how evolution can help us understand how to evolve our behavior in this lifetime. One principle of evolution is that you need variation to evolve. You think about Darwin's finches. You need all those varieties of finches to figure out which beak fit to track which nut on which island. So we need variation in our behavior. One of the things that we tend to do when we get scared or when we're frustrated or when we're angry is that we tend to have a narrowing of attention and a narrowing of our behavioral repertoire. That narrowing actually leads us to stay more stuck. So we first need variation. But there's actually three steps to behavioral evolution. One is variation. The second one is selection. Notice when something works. We have to notice when something is shifting, and it may be working. And then the third step is we have to reinforce and retain what works. And we go through that cycle over and over again. Mix things up when you're stuck, Find things that are working, and then retain and reinforce what does work. But don't get so stuck in your habit. You know, just because it worked five years ago doesn't mean it's gonna work now. So we also need to stay open and flexible.

[Podcast Host]

And I think that act of trying to stay open and flexible can be really tricky because it sometimes means trying out behaviors that we think are wrong or that we've rejected or that we worry won't be a good part of our identity and so on. And so this act of engaging in variation sometimes comes with a little discomfort. And that gets to our next strategy. Strategy number four. One of the things we need to do to apply our energy a little bit more wisely is to stop running away from discomfort. Discomfort doesn't feel good. Why is running away from it so counterproductive.

[Dr. Diana Hill]

Well, there's two things that are problematic about running away from discomfort. The first is often the ways in which we run away from discomfort cause secondary problems. So we can think about this. You know, I'm sitting at my computer, I'm going through my emails. There's the emails that I don't want to respond to, so I just kind of pass over them. And then I repeatedly avoid those emails and avoid those emails and avoid those emails until, oh, no, one of those emails was really important for me to pay attention to. Or the way in which you're avoiding it. Maybe you're getting up and you're going to the fridge or you're going outside to have a smoke. These avoidance strategies usually fall into the category of distracting yourself, numbing yourself out with substances, food technology. We avoid through bracing with our body, holding our breath, I don't want to feel it. We avoid through procrastination, we avoid through giving up. So all of those strategies, you can think about what your favorite ones are and we all do them, have these secondary problems. Because now not only are you dealing with the pain that you were avoiding, but now you're dealing with the pain of the thing that you do to avoid. The other problem with avoidance is that oftentimes the things that we avoid are connected to our values in some way or form. The things that matter to us are often the things that cause us the most discomfort. You will avoid or procrastinate on the projects that you really, really, really care about doing a good job for. And then you'll choose the things that like, don't really matter. You'll answer the emails that don't really matter. Right, because you're putting off the email that really is the one that's the important one that you care about. And if we start to look at it that way, like, oh, no, the thing that I care about is also in the same direction as the thing that brings me pain. Then we actually need to practice and get better at being with discomfort so we can pursue what we care about. And that's a good use of our energy pursuing what we care about. It's going to be uncomfortable.

[Podcast Host]

And so let's talk about some strategies we can use to deal with that discomfort. One of the ones you talk about a lot, I know, especially in kind of act therapy, is this idea of radical acceptance. What's radical acceptance and how can it help us through discomfort?

[Dr. Diana Hill]

Radical acceptance is willingness, openness, making space for allowing. I'm using other words because some people do not like the word acceptance. As a therapist, I'm like, this is.

[Podcast Host]

Gonna be my next question. Because whenever I talk to my students about radical acceptance, they'll be like, well, this is some, you know, terrible thing about the organization I work for or a thing that I'm really frustrated with in the world. I don't wanna just radically accept this thing that's bugging me. Those other words feel a little bit softer, but the idea seems to be the same. It's that, like, this is just a fact about the world. So we can either keep denying that fact and sticking our head in the ground and avoiding it, or we can just take a deep breath and realize that this is the way it is.

[Dr. Diana Hill]

Yeah, so. So there's a difference between acceptance and approval. There is a difference between acceptance and allowing harm to be done. There's a difference between acceptance and saying something is okay. Radical acceptance is exactly what we described. This is what is. And once you can acknowledge this is what is. Even if I don't like what is, you're welcome to not not like it and still accept it. You're welcome to, I don't like it and I'm going to accept it. When my son was little, he hated getting his head wet. Ever since he was born, he was learning how to swim and all his friends were in the deep end. It took him a while to learn how to swim because he didn't want to get his head wet. And I remember at some point telling him, you know, honey, in order to go play with your friends in the deep end, you're going to have to get your head wet. I know you don't like it and we can think about whatever that deep end move is for us. You're going to need to accept some things that are happening. And radical acceptance actually allows for change, allows for a shift, because often the non accepting is what narrows us, what keeps us in the shallow end of life. Because we don't accept that we're going to have to get our head wet. And life is a series of head wets over and over again. Like, oh, you know, radical acceptance can be like, I'm radically accepting the discomfort of this relationship with this person and how uncomfortable it is to be honest with them about something or to set a boundary around something, or to stay in the conversation long enough that we get through the hard part to the other side of it to understand each other. I'm going to radically accept what's happening inside of me. And there's a big distinction in acceptance and commitment therapy. Or act around. Acceptance is really about what Kirk Strassel calls your teams. Acceptance of your thoughts, T. Acceptance of your emotions, E. Acceptance of your action urges acceptance of your memories. Acceptance of your sensations. And when you can accept what's going on inside of you, then you can be more flexible on the outside and maybe make some changes on the outside.

[Podcast Host]

I love that you brought up the teams acronym, because the next tip that we're going to be jumping into is tip number five, which is that to channel our energy wisely, we need to learn to work with those thoughts. We need to learn to work with what you've called our rooster minds. I've heard of our monkey minds before. Rooster minds was the first one for me in reading your book, why a Rooster Mind?

[Dr. Diana Hill]

Oh, gosh. During COVID a lot of people got pets, and they got cats and dogs. Well, my neighbors got a rooster. We live up in this foothill area of Santa Barbara. Lots of people have chickens, but this was a first. And what this rooster did was crow all day long. We have. We think that roosters just crow in the morning, you know, like on the Kellogg's cereal box. But no, they crow all day long. And our mind is a lot like that. So our mind is constantly producing thoughts. Some of those thoughts may be helpful, some of those thoughts may be unhelpful. And when you follow or fight your mind, what happens is you get pulled off track from what you're doing. So if that rooster was crowing and I was working on, you know, a session with a client, or I was in a podcast interview, and if. If I was just sort of like, I hate that rooster. Oh, there's the rooster again. Then all of a sudden, I'm not engaging in my values, which was being present with the client or maybe sharing some information on the podcast. Oftentimes, that's what we do with the mind. We either follow its rules or we fight it. And really, to work with that rooster, the best thing you can do is just to notice that it cockle doodle dos all the time. And where do you want to focus your energy? We can become better at creating space for our mind noticing our. We can choose which thoughts we want to pay attention to, which thoughts are aligned with our values, which thoughts are helpful in the moment. As you and I have this interview and as listeners are listening in, they're having all sorts of thoughts that are going on. Some may be related to what we're talking about, some may be completely unrelated, but they get to be the chooser of which thoughts they pay attention to. And that's a revolutionary way of living in the world. I know that you have written about and speak a lot about the problems of the mind. And this concept of cognitive defusion in ACT is the capacity to just take, like, three steps back and let the mind do what it does rather than being all entangled in it. Steve Hayes, the founder of act, talks about our minds being like spider webs and trying to go in and rearrange our mind is like trying to rearrange a spider web. Like, do you really want to do that?

[Podcast Host]

Hey. And you've also talked about how we can question our thoughts and specific questions we can bring to our thoughts when we need to. What are some questions that we can bring?

[Dr. Diana Hill]

Oh, I love wise speech from the practice of Buddhism. And actually, this whole concept of wise effort comes from Buddhism. And it's one of the steps on the Eightfold Path of Awakening. Buddhism has all these numbers, like the four Noble Truths. And the fourth Noble Truth is that there's a path to awakening, and then there's eight things in this path to awakening. I grew up, my dad was Buddhist, and so there was always these, like, lists of things, right? But one of the steps on that Eightfold Path is something called wise speech. And I really like it because we can think about wise speech in how we talk to others, but we can also think about why speech, in terms of our own internal speech, and why speech has these questions. You can ask if you're in the middle of the night waking up and you have a worry, or maybe you're about to do something that's really difficult and you're going to step into something new, or maybe you're learning something and your mind is crowing away. You can ask yourself these four questions. One, is it kind? Two, is it true? Three, is it timely? Like, is this a good time to be focusing on this? It's 2:00am Should I really be dealing with my worry right now? Do I have any capacity to deal with this right now? And then four, is it helpful? Because sometimes it may be true. You may be stumbling over your words. If you have social anxiety, maybe you did make a little, you know, sound or said a word in the wrong way. But if you stick to it, you know, like get into that spiderweb all of a sudden, it's not helpful for you. It's gonna mess you up even more. So is it kind? Is it true? Is it timely? Is it helpful just asking those questions? You don't even have to fully flesh out the answers. Can give you that step back enough to engage in wiser speech with yourself. What is kind? What is true, what is helpful, what is timely right now for you?

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

It's time for another break, but when we return, Diana will share her final two tips for getting unstuck. The happiness lab will be back in a moment.

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[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Welcome back. Clinical psychologist Dr. Diana Hill and I are ready to dive into strategy number for getting your energy unstuck. And that tip involves learning to form a more compassionate relationship with your body. That might sound a little abstract.

[Podcast Host]

So I asked Diana to break down.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

What this idea of embodiment really looks like in practice.

[Dr. Diana Hill]

First, we can think about people who we think of as being embodied. You know, like, they walk into the room and you feel like they're in their body, they're not in their heads. They maybe speak from their body, from their heart. Most of the time. Many of us are like walking heads. We're not in our bodies. We don't feel our bodies. We're cut off from our bodies. We're afraid of our bodies, the sensations in our bodies. Being embodied means living inside this bodily form. And part of that has to do with something called interoceptive awareness, which is something that I researched really early on in my studies. My master's thesis was around interoceptive awareness. My dissertation was in part around interoceptive awareness. And. And interoceptive awareness is just your awareness of what's going on. Do you know your own heartbeat, your own breath, your own hunger, your own fullness? Can you feel emotions in your body? Could you point to it, like, where you feel it? Could you describe it with words, like, if you're having anxiety rather than the Heady anxiety. Things that you might say like, I'm worried about this, I'm worried about that. You may say something like, it feels heavy. It's got a texture to it, it's got a color to it. So to be embodied is really helpful in the sense that it gets us out of our heads. For one, our bodies hold a lot of information that may be useful to us. There is some research on folks that have higher levels of interoceptive awareness make better decisions. Even financial traders make more money. There's an association around that. Like, if you're a financial trader and you have more intercept awareness of your heartbeat, you make better decisions. And in my work with eating disorders, there's a good amount of research on interoceptive awareness and choices around food and eating, that if, you know, if you're hungry or full, it's kind of a useful tool, Right. In terms of when to start eating and when to stop eating.

[Podcast Host]

Our body's also really useful for the decisions that we make. You know, sometimes we're making a decision that might feel like a hard decision, but if we check in with our bodies, even though our mind is like, I don't know, should I accept this thing or not? Our bodies are screaming at us saying, like, don't accept that calendar invite or don't say yes to that thing. One of my favorite parts of your book is you've talked about the importance of noticing a whole body yes or a whole body no. I now get the sense of what that is. But explain to our listeners what you mean by that.

[Dr. Diana Hill]

Yeah, well, as you described, we've all had the experience where maybe we've been invited to do something or I'll be asked to be on a panel, and everything on paper looks really good about it. Like, this is a great opportunity. There's all these, you know, esteemed researchers on this panel. This would be a great thing to have on your cv. And my body's like, you know, and I'm like comparing, like, should I go on the panel or should I take the surf trip with the kids? Right? And my body's like, yes. And part of that embodied intuition or the whole body. Yes. Comes from your body's learning. Your body has been on panels before and remembers. Your body has put off the surf trip before and remembers. So it's not necessarily like, it's just like magical thing coming out of nowhere. Some of our intuition comes from past experiences of learning that we may not have the cognitive memory, but we have more the embodied memory. And the embodied memory comes Quicker.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Right.

[Dr. Diana Hill]

So a whole body? Yes. Is just that like you check in with your body. I think it's an important part of wise effort. And you ask your body, is this a yes? What does it feel like? Does my body feel more open or does it feel more contracted? Does it lean in or does it shy away? We want to combine the whole body. Yes. With other things. Is this a whole body? Yes. And does it align with my values? We can listen to our bodies, but it's one piece of information. I'm always a fan of multiple forms of information to help inform our wisest efforts and our decision making. But the body is often one that we leave out.

[Podcast Host]

Given that we need some help paying attention to our bodies. You've suggested an acronym that we can all use to get a little bit more in tune. It's the acronym of hart H E A R T. What does this acronym stand for?

[Dr. Diana Hill]

It's just a little check in around some of the things that we often don't pay attention to that maybe we could increase our attention to. H stands for hunger and fullness. Before you start eating, are you hungry as you're eating? When is the point of diminishing returns where if you keep eating, you're eating past fullness? Right. Just checking in with that helpful thing to relearn and get more used to. There's a lot of things that are pulling us away from our hunger and fullness. E stands for emotions. What am I feeling in my body? Not thinking in my head. And that increases our just capacity to be with emotions. The more we can be with urges without acting on them, strong emotions without reacting to them, the more emotionally flexible we become. A is an interesting one, which is activity. Does your body want to move? Is it craving movement? And you see this in kids, they naturally want to move their bodies. When I took those 16 year olds on a surf trip, as soon as we would hit the gas station, they jump out of the car and start throwing the football, right? They needed to move. But many of us have disregarded, overrided our need for movement. And it can turn into things like, I'm feeling irritable, but really what I need is a walk, you know, and then R stands for rest. Do I need to rest? Again, this is another one that we need to rest. But what we do is we turn to junk food, sources of rest. We try and rest by scrolling on our phone, we rest by watching YouTube. But what our body may really need is a deep rest. Alyssa Epel talks a lot about the benefits of deeper Rests, you know, getting a really deep relaxation state. And then finally, T stands for tension. What's the tension in your body right now? Are you holding it in your shoulders? Are you holding it in your gut? Are you not breathing? And that can be an indicator of stress, but also maybe just a need to let go a little bit, exhale a little bit longer, to give your body a little bit of release.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I love the tension. When I was just driving with a friend and there was some traffic, and it was looking like we were going.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

To get late, and I just had.

[Podcast Host]

This moment of noticing that my neck was tight, and I was, like, gripping the steering wheel, and I was like, wait, I can soften. I don't need to feel this. Right. But it was only just through that little short act of noticing what my body was doing in that moment that I realized, oh, my gosh, I'm, like, holding way more anxiety about kind of getting to this place on time that I really needed to. But had I not had that moment of noticing, I wouldn't have known how to fix it.

[Dr. Diana Hill]

Yeah. Information flows both ways, right? So our bodies can send information to our mind. We don't think about working from the body up. We always think from the top down. So it can be really beneficial to work from the bottom up. Like, if I were to exhale longer, release some of the tension in my shoulders, drop my shoulders, let go of my face a little bit, let go of my belly a little bit. We don't always have to hold it in. Right. That. That actually may send some information to my brain that I'm okay. Because your brain is thinking you're not okay. If your shoulders are up to your ears and you're holding your breath and you're sucking it in, something is obviously wrong because you're bracing for something bad. And so it's good to think about our body as sending information to our mind as well. And we can have a little bit of wiser efforts in that.

[Podcast Host]

And so now we get to the seventh strategy we can use to have wiser effort. And this is to watch out for the energy frenemies. What are the energy frenemies?

[Dr. Diana Hill]

Well, earlier on, I talked about our strengths, our talents, our aptitudes are what I call our genius energy. The things that come easily to us. And sometimes that can kind of spin off and become a frenemy. So an example of that is. Is maybe you have a great talent at humor. You are always the one that comes into the room and can lighten up the space. But when misused when overused, you may start becoming a little bit too light hearted in situations where you actually need to feel a little bit more, or maybe folks that are like super good at helping others. The frenemy of being a super helper is maybe you never turn that towards yourself and help yourself out. We can see frenemies all over the place. In Buddhism, they call it near enemies. Like the near enemy of compassion is pity. And when you start to spot that a little bit, you can adjust your energy a little bit so that you are using it in the right amount, in the right way, at the right time. If you're super persistent, there's a time to dial back your persistence. If you're super patient, there's a time to be a little bit less patient.

[Podcast Host]

And so how do we know, like what are some signals that we might have switched from kind of wise energy into the kind of frenemy use of our energy?

[Dr. Diana Hill]

I think it all goes back to values. So one way I look at values is they're like the banks of a river and your energy is a river that's kind of flowing through and the values help direct that. So you can tell when you're off track with your values by a few things I had mentioned before. That values bring you a lot of vitality. But another indicator that you're off track with your values and maybe it's turned into a frenemy is regret. The other day I was dropping my son off at school and I really am trying to like keep my schedule figured out because I have a tendency to overbook myself and double book myself. And I was worried that I had double booked a client and I drop him off at school. We're driving. As soon as the car comes into the parking lot, I pick up my phone and I start looking at my schedule for the day as my son is grabbing his backpack and getting out of the car and I look up and he's gone. And I had a pang of regret because he was leaving and I was looking at my phone. Now this is the acceptance thing, you know. Okay, so my frenemy here showed up where I was trying to like be a good therapist, but actually was getting in the way of me being a good mom. And I need to accept that feeling, that discomfort as an indicator that I was out of alignment with my values. And when you feel that pain, it's just an arrow pointing to a little self correction. So next time when I pull into the parking lot, keep the phone in the bag until he leaves and I can look him in the eye and say goodbye and I will feel in better alignment. My frenemy of scheduling won't have gotten in the way. So we can use Regret is a powerful indicator to help us course correct. We can use vitality and values as an indicator to course correct. The big question is is basically how do you want to show up in this moment? And how can you use your strengths, your gifts, your talents, you to help support you in doing that? And I think that's wise effort.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Let's recap the seven strategies Diana covered for finding wiser effort in the new year. Number one, get curious about your situation. Step back, look at yourself with compassion, and if it helps, journal your thoughts, clarify your values. What makes life most lifey for you, and how can you channel more of your energy towards those things? Strategy number three is when in doubt, seek variation. We don't have a built in get unstuck button, but we can stay open to new approaches. Tip four is to embrace discomfort. Sometimes moving forward means accepting what's imperfect in the present moment. Strategy five involves working with your rooster mind. Your brain will keep crowing. You just need to choose when to listen. Tip number six is to tune into your body. Where are you holding tension? Can you soften even just a little right now? And our last strategy number seven is to notice your energy frenemies. Even your strengths can drain you if they're running the show unchecked. I hope these strategies will help you deploy your energy a bit more effectively in 2026. Next week, the Happiness Lab will continue the season on how to get unstuck by taking a deep look at change, why it can feel so intimidating, and how to lean into it. And we'll get to learn with a brilliant psychologist who also happens to be my former student.

[Dr. Diana Hill]

I am a fan of exploring change and I am recovering when it comes to my relationship with change.

[Podcast Host]

You're a recovering change hater.

[Dr. Diana Hill]

Change hater. Exactly. Exactly.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

All that next week on the Happiness lab with me, Dr. Laurie Santos.

[Podcast Host]

This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.