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- [00:00]
Tony Baker
Foreign.
- [00:08]
Ravi Babal
Welcome to the HAVOC Rundown.
- [00:13]
Justin
Hey everyone. I'm Justin, your MC and editor in chief. And I want to welcome you back to another episode of the HAVOC Rundown. Tonight we're continuing our Global Combat Robotics series. And this time we're heading north to talk about the Canadian Combat Robotics scene. Our guest tonight is Ravi Babal. Right? I said that, right? I asked you right before recording and I think I said I butchered it.
- [00:34]
Ravi Babal
Still no. You did a perfect job. That's me. How's it going everyone?
- [00:39]
Justin
The founder of Bot Brawl Canada, Bob Roll has become one of the major homes for Canadian Fighting Robotics. With national rankings, sanctioned events, bbrl, Leak Play affiliate organization organizers, and a ever growing community of builders competing across multiple weight classes. Ravi is not just an event organizer either. He has been building fighting robots since he was 13. Right, 13. He has competed on BattleBots with 250 pound machines like Lycan and Red Devil. And has spent years helping build the infrastructure behind Canadian Combat Robotics. Between the engineering, the event organizing, the rankings, the builder membership, and the sheer number of robots have been gone through the Bot Roll events, there's a lot to dig into. Tonight we're going to talk about what makes the Canadian scene unique. How Bot Brawl grew into what it is now. What the BBRL format brings to the table. How eventually being run across Canada. What the future of Canadian robot Combat Robotics could look like. Also, just a quick note, we do not have a fifth chair joining us tonight. But the fifth chair will be back next episode. Tonight we're keeping a focus on Ravi Bot Brawl in the Wild Mechanical Canadian Combat Robotics. But as you know, I cannot do this all by myself. So joining me tonight are our resident strategist, trivia machine and guy most likely to turn a fight record into a conspiracy board. It's Ryan Hunter.
- [01:59]
Ryan Hunter
It's not a conspiracy. I just need to get my robot to be a little bit better. But I do get matchups that are nuts.
- [02:07]
Justin
Our sharp eyed reporter and detail hunter, always ready to dig into the story behind the sparks is Thomas Carroll.
- [02:15]
Thomas Carroll
Huh? Hunter. I'm not a hunter.
- [02:20]
Justin
Our creative mastermind, trophy maker and technical wizard. Here to keep us honest when the robot math starts getting spicy, it's Tony Baker.
- [02:29]
Tony Baker
Can I hunt Thomas?
- [02:31]
Justin
Sure, I'm totally down for that. And of course our guest tonight, the founder of Bot Roll Canada, battlebots, builder, engineer, organizer and one of the key people helping grow Canadian Robotics. Ravi, welcome to the Havok Rundown. Thank you for being on.
- [02:48]
Tony Baker
Brilliant.
- [02:48]
Ravi Babal
Thanks for having me. This is super exciting.
- [02:50]
Justin
So we Have a lot to discuss and a lot of topics to get through. So we're going to hop right into what we do. Every time that we have a global episode, which is our around the world
- [03:03]
Thomas Carroll
segment,
- [03:13]
Justin
And this is where we put a pin in the map and we talk about what makes the area of Combat robotics that we're talking about special. A lot of times we find ourselves focusing on the US Mostly eastern US scene. So we started this series to try and shine a spotlight on other parts around the globe. We've talked to a lot of places, Norway, Australia, you know, everything like that. So now we are going 3,000 miles east, right of where we last talked In Canada, west 3, 3000 miles away from the last time we touched on Canada and we were talking to Bot Brawl. Ravi, you started Bot Brawl and can you tell us a little bit? We want to start at the very beginning. So tell us how botboro started. What is the origin of Bot Brawl? Canada?
- [04:13]
Ravi Babal
Yeah, not at. No problem at all. So we started Bot Brawl. I guess I started Bob Brawl with a friend of mine, Dalton O', Connor, 11 years ago. We celebrated our 10th year anniversary last year at our first summer classic. Second one's coming up in a few weeks. And it was a born from a perfect storm of events that we were putting together. So at the time, I was very deep into the local maker culture. I was part of the local maker space for a number of years. I was, I think I was actually the president of the organization toward the beginning of Bot Brawl or had or just about to step into the presidency of the organization. And a group of us makers decided we were going to start a event called Maker Expo. And Maker Expo was to be the Canadian version of Maker Faire. So we sat out, we got as many makers as we could together. We rented city hall, we rented big auditoriums. We did like four to five years of these events. And the idea was it was peer to peer learning. We had makers come show you their craft. If they fixed a chair, you came, they taught you how to fix a chair. And the whole point of it was you make whatever, you fix whatever, do whatever, but you learn from your community on how to do things. And it was accessing maker knowledge and skill sets and education through that community field. Now when we started Maker Expo, we really wanted to have like a really big event, something we could put a. A big spin of behind. We can get a lot of cameras on, we could do a lot of promotions with. And it just so happens I was considering like reviving robot combat in Ontario, because we were at a fallow season of fallow point. We went from having, when I was a kid, you know, 13, we went from having a local event in Toronto called Robot Riots and it died unfortunately. And we had like, you know, 15 to 20 active builders at a time in southern Ontario. And when it died, our only option was to go to Motorama down at Northeastern Robot Conflict. And I love Motorama and I love the community. I haven't been down for ages. I haven't been down since my daughter was born, which is five, six years ago now.
- [06:16]
Justin
But that's gonna be quite a drive for you too.
- [06:19]
Ravi Babal
Yeah, you know what, it was about eight to nine hours and that alone wasn't bad. The problem was you did it on three days of no sleep because your bloody robot wasn't done yet. And you had four to five guys crammed in a car with all these tools trying to get over the border. Be like, yeah, no, we're totally unrelated. Different age groups don't work together, don't go to school together. These are definitely not bombs.
- [06:42]
Tony Baker
All these weapons in the trunk.
- [06:43]
Ravi Babal
Yeah, they're definitely not. We're definitely not gonna go start something. I swear to God. It's okay. Yeah, I know we look like zombies and are hallucinating and we have to switch on and off every hour to not die on the mountain passes going through Pennsylvania. But we, we, we, we made it. Nobody died. We almost got caught a couple times at the borders. They, they come up with crazy questions like, so your robots could one like take off a finger or something and we'd be like, oh no, these are like, really? Those things on TV are crazy. These are like little like dinky things. Meanwhile, we've got like a 30 pound robot in the trunk with a 24 inch S7 tool steel bar and a custom brushless motor that would like annihilate anybody and anything. We're like, it's fine. Anyway, so we, we had a period where we had like three active builders in Ontario, myself and a few others like Dalton, Logan, Jason, et cetera. And we'd all just have to go to the states to do competitions. And it just, you know, it was great, but we were missing, you know, a local, local element. So with Maker Expo, we had an opportunity to start something, right? Because we, we kind of controlled both sides of the post. We controlled Maker Expo. So we had the venue in hand and all of the stuff that happens with trying to set up a robot fight at a venue with insurance and talking about like where to get power and where to get Internet, where to get this and that, that was me. Anyway, so I could just make it super easy for myself. So I sat down with my buddy Dalton, who I've known since we were, you know, we used to fight robots when we were 13 years old together. And he said, all right, I'm in. You, you set everything up. I'm going to build the first arena. And we decided to do sumo robots first. And that was a critical thing for us. We decided, you know what, we have a captive builder audience of 30 pound robots because we all had like 30 pound sportsmans and stuff at the time. So it was super easy. And there were a couple like FRC grade robots that were 150 pounds, give or take around, and there was a really old community of sumo robot fighters out of Toronto. And when I say really old, I mean like these guys were flat out retired. You know, they'd come out with the robots and it's like, hey, what do you got in there? And he'd be like, oh yeah, I got a, I got a window motor from a, from a 1967 Chevy and like some lawnmower tires, you know, like ancient stuff. But they, they used to brawl back in the day. So we invited them out, we kind of made a show of it and we did a whole media campaign. We got the mayors. We're surrounded by three cities. We're kind of a metropolitan Waterloo, Kitchener and Cambridge formed the Tri City area. We got the mayors of all, all three cities together. We gave them each a robot. We had them fight. It was like a huge thing. And it, it really, really helped get Maker Expo off the ground and help get Bopper off the ground. And we just kept growing year after year. I think year three, Andrea came along and said, hey, what do you think about doing like antweights and beetles? And I said, I hate at weights and Beatles, but if you build the arena, I'll do the rest. We did the same, same range fit as I did with Dalton. So Andrea and Kevin built our first combat arena, our first box, which is still in operations today, seven years ago. And I mean, we just been growing like wildfire ever since.
- [09:56]
Ryan Hunter
What weight class were those First Sumo bots?
- [10:00]
Ravi Babal
£30 and £150.
- [10:02]
Justin
Wow.
- [10:03]
Ryan Hunter
So it was a giant arena then?
- [10:05]
Ravi Babal
No, that was built. No, it was, it was a, it was a. So like our current arena, the original summer. The original arena, yeah, was, if I'm not mistaken, it was, I think it was 8ft in diameter.
- [10:19]
Ryan Hunter
Okay.
- [10:19]
Ravi Babal
Raised about an inch or two off the ground all made out of plywood and lumber. And there was a 2 inch steel pole in the middle. And the pole, it was then and is now our great equalizer. It proves you have to drive to win. You just can't box rush the guy. You have to navigate the pole. And it's become a critical element to the strategy around this the event. We have since increased the arena size. It's, it's now. I think I should know this off top of my head. I think it's like, it's, it's like 12ft. I'm gonna have to look it up, but there's a little bit more playing ground. But the, the pole remains one.
- [10:54]
Ryan Hunter
I need a T shirt. That's Bot Brawl Canada. Navigate the pole. And also that sounds like a really fun as hell arena to, to fight in. And it was all Sumo. Was there any weapons allowed or was it just sumo, like straight sumo rules?
- [11:13]
Tony Baker
The.
- [11:13]
Ravi Babal
We were super restrictive on the weapons because originally and it still is an open air arena, so. Oh, okay. The Sumo platform was totally. We didn't have the money for Lexan bar none. Yeah, we started Bot Brawl, I want to say on a shoestring budget, but they're really like, there was no budget. It's just kind of like, hey, you got, you got some wood over there. Cool. And then Maker Expo was like, yeah, you know what, we'll lend you some microphone stuff and some cameras. So it was completely open air. So any weapons involved were purely like a super low speed act like linear actuator based lifter. It's gotten a little crazier since then. We do have an open air enclosure now, but it's four feet of Lexan in the full surround, so the robots can get a little bit more kinetic with each other. The weapon systems are still required to be relatively low power. Like no hammers or sawed and stuff. But like we have slowly spinning upward, you know, rototill, literally Rototillers. This robot called a, called a giant rototiller on the front. Yeah, lifters. We've got some really, really, really violent 30 pound sportsman robots that come around and they will throw robots around. So we've had to like build this Lexan enclosure, but it's not full combat. That's, that's the kind of the nice part of it. And the, the poll.
- [12:27]
Tony Baker
My favorite thing about bot is the, the tumor.
- [12:29]
Ravi Babal
The tumor bots. Yeah.
- [12:31]
Tony Baker
It's so unique.
- [12:32]
Ravi Babal
It's so fun and like the, the fighting robots are great. Like people hear it in the distance. They come Running, you know, when they're at a big convention or whatever. But they stay for the sumos. That's the crazy part, because they're, they're tangible. You can understand this massive leviathan and you feel it when they get thrown in the air and they drop back down. Like you feel the rumble in the floor. And it's just, it's so much more captivating for an audience, which is one of the reasons we did it and we kept it, is because it's so captivating for a live audience. The one pound and three pound robots are fun and the sparks are fun and the big hits are fun, but you lose something in the blur of motion as one robot ricochets into the wall 17,000 times, whereas the big robots are just like two literal leviathans. What I love about our Sumo arena, particularly the 150s, is we often get battle box that come by to help to practice their driving. So, like Bloodsports, one of them and a few others, well, they'll take the weapon system off, they'll pull the lipos off. And we have a rule against lipos. A 150 robot cannot have lipos. And that's just purely for a safety perspective because if the light bulbs go, good luck getting 150 pound robot out the door through a crowd of 40,000 people. Right, just right. So like, the Bloodsport guys, they've come down a few times and it's really, really awesome to watch them practice their driving. And then it's like a, it's like a $50,000 chassis. Even without the weapon. It's so beautiful, that robot. And the crowd oohs and ahs and then they get thrashed by a guy who built something in his garage for like 20 bucks. It's a beautiful, it's a beautiful moment.
- [14:06]
Justin
So instead of lipos, what, what do they use?
- [14:09]
Ravi Babal
Predominantly sealed lead acid batteries, because you get the weight.
- [14:13]
Justin
Okay.
- [14:13]
Ravi Babal
And our, our, our king of sumo is Jason Ribeiro, one of my oldest friends in the world. He is like a really old school builder even now. Like, maybe he'll, he'll cad stuff, maybe he'll do like some water jet stuff here and there. And it's not a capability thing. He does that for work. It's just that he prefers to hot rivet his robots together, the guy. So he really helped set that early tone of the style of robots we get, because he loved it so much. So he builds like these really artistic, really cool robots that are built with like this tender love and care. And it's built this culture around our sumo, especially the 150s, where we don't get optimized robots, we don't get meta, it's the coolest thing ever. It's all about like what you can do and what you can put together that defines your particular style of building. And that's one of the, one of the identifiers of bot brawl, I'll say is, is we, we don't judge on anything other than the effort you put in to get into the box. Nothing else matters. The robot you built, the, the money, the time, the parts you have, the experience you have, none of it matters. All that really matters is the effort you put into getting to the box. Because a rookie has and will take out a 20 year veteran that's a world champion. Right, right. You see that, you see that every day, every fight we watch collectively. If you're a rookie at our events, you will fight 20 year veteran and you will learn whether you lose or you win.
- [15:41]
Ryan Hunter
So do the. I, so now you, I, I'm trying to picture it so you, so these giant robots are flinging themselves around. You know, how is it scored? Do you have judges, do you have a scoring protocol and everything like that?
- [16:00]
Ravi Babal
It's very simple. You get three rounds, sometimes five. Right? Depends, depends on the tournament, right? Sometimes five, sometimes three. Best of three, best of five. The first robot to touch the ground because it's a raised platform or get pushed so far out that they impact the barrier, loses the point. That's the deal.
- [16:18]
Ryan Hunter
Yeah, yeah. Do you have, is there any secrets to it? Is there any, like Matt, I, you said it's a plywood thing. Is it, are people using cleats or anything like that?
- [16:29]
Ravi Babal
Yeah, you know, some people use cleats. We, we have been adjusting the rules a little bit here and there, but originally you could do almost anything. You could screw yourself to the arena floor, you could cut the pole off, beat the other guy with it. It was, it was very open ended
- [16:48]
Ryan Hunter
and not the pole.
- [16:50]
Tony Baker
Yeah,
- [16:52]
Ravi Babal
well, like I, we, we really encourage people to try because the poles at the time it was like a 316 inch chromoly tube that was like welded, you know, it was like a, it was a, it was a significant piece of.
- [17:04]
Justin
Okay, so, so if you cut it off, you deserve it.
- [17:06]
Ravi Babal
You deserve it. You get it, you take it home. Yeah. So the, the, the tricks, like some people have used cleats, some people have tried different things. The most effective thing that we had to ban was actually my friend Dalton. He, he dragged his 30, his 150 pound robot out of his barn and brought it in for his son to drive. And the wheels, the urethane on the wheels, the binder had dissolved in the, on the. Somehow in the barn and turned a complete goo and glue and the bloody thing was glued to the arena floor like we couldn't move it.
- [17:41]
Justin
Oh my God.
- [17:41]
Ravi Babal
It couldn't move under its own power. We couldn't get it off the arena floor. It was the most effective glue I've ever seen in my life. So we had to ban GUI wheels. But otherwise cleats. You want to like screw yourself to the floor, you want to grab the pole. You can do all of that. The trick is you have to be able to release yourself within a certain period of time. You cannot be a permanent installation. Yeah. The best robots, when I'm driving, obviously, and it's usually from my observation, it's the robots who can control the momentum of their, their robot and the momentum of the fight. Better wins. So often we'll see robots that are winning but they get a little over enthusiastic and they don't manage their momentum and they get a little too close to the edge, a little too fast. And all it takes is one to four wheels to go over the edge, to lose traction and then that's it, you're done.
- [18:25]
Justin
Okay, so you, you started with the, the Sumos, you added in the, the Beatles and everything. What are the full breadth of weight classes that you have now at an event?
- [18:35]
Ravi Babal
So right now at Bob Roll proper, we hold 1 pound combat, 3 pound combat, 30 pound sumo, and 150 pound sumo. And we are working our way up to 1 to 30 pound combat. There's a plan in place. We're gonna try our best to make it happen. There's a lot that's gotta happen, but it's on the roadmap.
- [18:54]
Ryan Hunter
I'd imagine a new arena would be in order for that.
- [18:57]
Ravi Babal
Not only a new arena, but we also need to secure a at least semi permanent space, but probably a permanent space.
- [19:03]
Ryan Hunter
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [19:05]
Ravi Babal
It's just you can't take these things down in a weekend the way we, you know, they used to.
- [19:09]
Ryan Hunter
No, no.
- [19:11]
Tony Baker
You just said one thing when you were going through it and I don't know if it was that it, it was like. Yeah, like one of those tall tale. How many people do you normally get showing up to these events?
- [19:21]
Ravi Babal
Our last event we had 175 builders.
- [19:23]
Tony Baker
Wow.
- [19:24]
Ravi Babal
Yeah, yeah. So our community, our online community is about 500 people. A little bit more than 500 people. Now we have a really active core group of builders. We had 170 plus, give or take people around 100 robots at our last event. And that was at Anime north in front of 40,000 anime enthusiasts who just loved the robots and you know, the events. The community is growing, which is why we're, we're shifting the organization a little bit in order to capitalize on the growth which is, marks really the next, next iteration on top roll going forward.
- [19:59]
Justin
Okay.
- [19:59]
Tony Baker
How many spectators do you guys get?
- [20:02]
Ravi Babal
Spectators? Depends on the event. So for instance, at Anime north they have 40,000 people going through their doors. And I would wager easily half, if not three quarters of that walk past our booth and stay and watch. We've done the Canadian National Exhibition before which has 4 million people walking through their doors. And I couldn't deign to tell you how many people stop and watch the robots.
- [20:26]
Tony Baker
Crazy.
- [20:27]
Ravi Babal
Just a couple people. Yeah, just a couple people. Just a few. It's, it's one of those things where it's, it's just so utterly unique and you don't, you won't see it anywhere else. So when you see it for the first time in person and you're like, hey, you know, I saw that on tv, like a bunch of British guys or something, right? Or I saw that, that one, that one giant robot with the big, big drill bit of the claw. You know, there's some thing that they've seen some pop culture. I know maybe it's Aussie man. When he's, he's talking about what is it when Blacksmith is fighting the Brazilian guys on Battle Bosses. I got a shock, you know. Yeah, everyone's seen some iteration of BattleBots or robot combat. So to see it in person, they always stop, they always stay. They always want us to talk up to the builders if they can. And you know, we're really happy to do our live events in front of big audiences. We have started pulling back a little bit and doing more builder focused events in service of the community. Because it's really hard to get a community feel when you're in a venue with 4 million people walking around like you, because you're in the heart of Toronto or something. And that's what we have coming up, our summer classic. That's our builder focused event, our community focused event. And those are really, really something special.
- [21:44]
Justin
So to build upon that, Canada is huge geographically, you know, like the United States. It's a giant amount of space and you're building a national comics scene. What does it feel trying to reach across that Much space. You've talked about a couple different events that you've done. The anime, of course, you're in Toronto with the three metropolitan cities. What is it like trying to build a structured organization spanning that much space?
- [22:17]
Ravi Babal
You know, surprisingly not that hard. We're still building it out. We're still building it out. So let me, let me kind of give, Let me give you the scope of it. So our community is growing and at the end of every event we do a survey. All the builders who came, you get a survey, you fill out the survey and you get a chance to win a FingerTech gift card or a send consent gift card or, you know, something like that as a random draw. And the survey asked very specific questions about what did you like about the event? What did you not like about the event? What would you, you know, did you like the lighting, the tables, the pits? But we also ask, how many events per year do you want to see? How many events per year are you going to compete in? What kind of weight classes do you want to compete in going forward? So we can kind of get a trend for where the community wants to go. And that lets us change our events, make things better, try new things and get feedback on it. It lets us iterate and get live feedback from the group, from the builders. And one of the things the building community kept saying to us is we want more events. We want more events. We want seven events a year, we want eight events a year. And here I am pulling my hair out trying to do three events a year. Like we're, we're a completely volunteer team. Three events a year is like the most we can manage. We we heard them and said, okay, we're going to do league. We have an opportunity to do this league thing. So we're going to do the league thing. And that's going to give you like seven fight nights in the middle of the year to come out and iterate your robots. We did that not only because the community wanted more fights and more events, but we also wanted to give the community an opportunity to conduct rapid iteration. So right now, the best robots in our cadre are the robots who are going to our league event because they fight for seven weeks straight from the first day to the finals. The finals are this Friday actually for the season. And like a pudding is one of those robots. A pudding came to us as a rookie not that long ago. Typical rookie robot was two wheel drive, 3D printed undercutter. Really good attitude on the builder, really good ability to learn and iterate and Repair. And right now, ape pudding is like telling everybody, like, absolutely killing everybody. And it's because the builder has just been focused on fighting and iterating and improving. So League gives us the ability to get better robots, better builders, and kind of drag everything forward to create, like, this really clean. You're a rookie, you have a big event, and the big events is where you catch the bug, right? That's how you get in there and you catch that bug and you get it in your brain that this is something you want to do and you don't want to wait six months for the next event. So you go to league and you get seven events. We're back to. Back to back. And by the time you finish that, you're ready to take the podium position at the. At your next major event. That's. That's our. Our funnel. But the bloody builders want more fights still after all that, you know, like, it's not enough. Yeah, they're an insatiable group that's ageable, and there's like, so many of them now. And my biggest fear has always been turning people away. We didn't advertise in the first eight years, right? We didn't post a lot on social media. We didn't do this, you know, type of situation where we sit down with. With fine folks like yourselves because our organic growth was good enough. And I feared that if we put any gas in that fire, our growth would outstrip our ability to serve the community. And Bot Brawl exists for the community. That is very important to our. Our group that runs it, our admin team. It's one of our core tenants that Bot Brawl exists to serve a community of builders and nothing else. Quite honestly, that is. That is our thing. We exist to advance STEM or STEAM education through Combat Robotics. And shepherding that community and making sure that community is well served is how we do it. So we never did a lot of advertising. We didn't do a lot of conversations because we were just word of mouth growing so quickly. But now we've hit a tipping point, you know, where it's growing so fast that we're seeing smaller events crop up around us, which is. Which is cool to see, right? We got events in our backyards. We've got events cropping up across Canada. And we had a. We had a situation where we had to sit down and say, okay, listen, we have these events coming up. We can either compete with them and steamroll them. We could do nothing and see what happens, or we could take our. Our mission and really put it to task. And if our mission is to advance STEM education through combat Robotics and to shepherd a community of builders, why not shepherded community builders nationally? So we've, we're growing to create this umbrella which is called the, the Bob Roll affiliate program where any burgeoning event or existing event in Canada can apply to be part of the affiliate program. And it, it, there's a ton of different like benefits to the affiliate program, but essentially it says, we got your back. Don't Worry, we spent 10 years trying to figure this out. Anything you need, we got you. If you need, you know, an email address, you get a your event Bob Roll CA email address. If you need a landing page for sponsors, no worries. You got a Bot Brawl slash your event set up. You need to reg. You need to manage your registration. Don't worry, we built the tools. You'll get access to our registration portal which we moved entirely off of build a database recently. We're totally on our own portal. Sorry, Mark, I emailed you. You didn't email me back in time. I had to, I had to do something, you know, sorry bud, but so like, you get access to that, that ecosystem, you're going to stream your fights. Don't worry about it. There's no point for all of us little events competing with each other on YouTube to fight. The algorithm for views Bot Brawl CA has been streaming for 10 years. Stream your fights on Bot Brawl CA. You get all of the revenue you make from that. You need a new arena. We're going to figure out how to fund that for you. You need a new camera. You can ask the, you know, the affiliate program to, for funds for a new camera. You can apply for a proposal, you know, send us a proposal. And the key point of this was to make sure that if we could do this, all of the new events that are cropping up as part of the affiliate program get first and foremost a safety certification as part of the deal. So you, you, you use our rule set, which is just spark rules. It's nothing crazy. It's just, it's just sparks. You know, we don't do crazy stuff like NHRL. You know, you get NHL's got crazy, crazy rules and it's super fun and super cool. But there's a core element to what we do that is very different than nhrl, which we can get into and after, but you get access to our rules and our safety like checklists and our waiver system and like, we'll help you ensure your event and all that stuff because we've done it all. We've set up the infrastructure. Why not share it? Why not make an umbrella organization that can help robot combat grow across the, you know, across the country and by expanding nationally. What I get to do now is go to government, you know, grant organization, say, listen, I've got this national STEM education hub of grassroots communities. Give me that grant for $200,000 and I get to go to Tim Hortons because, you know, Canadian, everyone knows Tim Hortons. I get to go to Tim Hortons and say, listen, I've got this national, you know, 2,000 person community of robot builders that are streaming content and we are pumping out that content in a variety of different places. Give me $40,000 to sponsor this entire ecosystem. And any event that puts your logo on their arena and streams or runs an event will get, I don't know, 50 bucks per view or per robot or something to help fund their next iteration. And if they need a new Lexan panel or a new arena or a new camera or whatever, all they got to do is apply for funds from Botbarl and we'll take it out of that big bursary check and we'll say, yeah, we're going to fund your growth. Here's money for an arena. We want to build like a media go kit where it's like a laptop and a bunch of streaming equipment and you know, a tech deck, one of those glotto decks and say, don't worry, you don't have to go buy streaming equipment. Just borrow this from us and we'll ship it to you in a peloton case. So that's what the affiliate program is, that's what we're building next to support Combat Robotics growth across the country. And we've been very fortunate. We have. Our first affiliate event is in like two weeks. It's called Johto Events. It's a plant event. So plastic ants. I need to build a plastic robot desperately because my kid wants to go. It's literally two weeks. Like I have baggies of parts sitting on my desk here just like trying to figure it out. Like this is her robot from last year, you know, like it's just, you know, like her little, little. Yeah, her little kitty cat robot in a plastic bag. And I'm just like trying to put this back together as quickly as I can for, for the event. So they're kicking off next week Johto events on the 25th in Rexendale, Ontario. We're talking to different events on either side of the country right now to Try and help them out. And you know what the coolest part of this is, is we have been around for 11 years, and we have builders who have grown up with us, we have builders who have left us and like to start careers in different parts of the country. And Autumn is one of our builders who's been with us for a long time, and she's awesome. And, you know, many builders have fought beside Autumn, but she went out to Vancouver for a job that, like, that area, so that's out west, and just happened upon a small event that came out of nowhere. And her first instinct, and I'm very proud of this, as you know, Bot Brawl person, was to help them, right? To go and judge and make sure the robots were safe and do the weigh in and do all that stuff that she learned being with us. And we said if they want to join the affiliate program, that's cool. Here's the stuff, Go talk to them about it. Um, but, you know, she tells me they need, like, lipo bags and stuff. I'm like, great, we'll send them lipo bags. No, no, whatever. No strings. Just, just let me. Give me an address. Because, you know, that's, that's the point.
- [32:15]
Ryan Hunter
This is the best pitch I've ever heard about robots. Like, this is exactly, this is exactly the way that you in Bot Brawl Canada are looking at. It is exactly the way that, one, I fell in love with Robot Combat Robotics, and two, is the way that, like, I wish every single league looked at it, you know, because, like, it is so. It is so good to be able to be like, hey, we have this. Let me, you can. Let me help. You also do. This is so nice. It is so good. And it's like, there, there is points where I feel like certain Lees are more in it for, like, making their own thing. But, like, if everybody banded together and everybody had one vision that they could, like, look at and everything, it would be so much better. And I love that you're building this in Canada. It is so cool.
- [33:25]
Tony Baker
I have to say, this is a true Canadian thing. Like, it's just absolutely amazing. I'm like, this is Canada. This is exactly what I would believe a Canadian group would do.
- [33:40]
Ravi Babal
Yeah, well, I mean, look, is it not the heart of the sport? So I've been doing this for a long time. Yeah. And, yeah, the heart of the sport has always been the camaraderie of the builder beside you. It's always been a million. Yeah, it's always been, yes, I, I, I screwed up. I forgot my Receiver at home. My home is 12 hours away. I need a receiver.
- [34:03]
Ryan Hunter
Yeah.
- [34:03]
Ravi Babal
Never once, ever in.
- [34:05]
Tony Baker
In my.
- [34:06]
Ravi Babal
My many years of doing this, or in my tens of thousands of moments observing or being part of Interact building to build interaction, have I ever heard anybody say, yeah, I got a receiver. I'll sell it to you for 50 bucks. Hell no. You need a part. You put your hand out and you say, I need this. It shows up. And that level of support for me has always been the soul of the sport. My favorite instance of this is. Is actually, I think it was BattleBots Season 4. Maybe. I can't remember exactly where my boy Earl Pentecost III and Bale Spear were slated for a fight. I can't remember who they're fighting. I want to say it was Valkyrie, but I can't remember exactly, but they were slated for a fight. They've been waiting for this fight, like, for days. For days I've been waiting for this fight. And no, it was. They were fighting Hammer, Turtle bot. Zoe. Zoe's bot.
- [34:59]
Thomas Carroll
Mega Tanto.
- [35:01]
Ravi Babal
No, Zoe. Zoe's Chomp. Chomp.
- [35:06]
Tony Baker
Chomp.
- [35:07]
Justin
Yeah.
- [35:07]
Ravi Babal
Yeah, it was Chomp. It was a Walker Chomp. So he's like. He was waiting for the fight. He's waiting for the fight.
- [35:12]
Ryan Hunter
Ravi. The problem is you say Zoe, and I'm thinking. I'm thinking a completely different Zoe.
- [35:17]
Tony Baker
Completely different Zoe.
- [35:18]
Ravi Babal
Fair. Fair.
- [35:21]
Ryan Hunter
I'm thinking hive hysteria. Like, like that, MD Zoe. That's. I like. The problem right now for me is like, BattleBots is like such a completely, like, separate thing to, like, the robots. Like that most of the time we spend our time with that. It's like. So wait, Zoe had a 250?
- [35:41]
Justin
Well, yeah, and we're gonna, we're, we're gonna do a whole breakdown of. Of what, what we think about the new battlebot. So I'm not going to go too far into it. But that's, that's also the other thing about immersing yourself in this world as much as we do and have. Even watching the new BattleBots fighters, we're like, yeah, that's okay. But I've seen a Beetle fight that was more exciting.
- [36:03]
Ravi Babal
I haven't, I haven't seen the new stuff. I haven't seen the new stuff. But so, like, they're, they're waiting for this fight and like, they, they did their box test and then they, they, they cranked their wheel like the jack shaft popped out. They hit the side of the arena wall or something. And the, the production crew is like, you got 20 minutes you got 20 minutes to fix this thing or you're done. You're done. So, like, they ran back to the pits and we descended on them. Like all the builders and all these team captains, we just descended on them and we were like screaming for tools and tools were just getting thrown into the bullpit. We ripped the robot apart. Like, I couldn't tell you the people that were there. Like, like, you name a name. And all the top robot, you know, battle boss guys. Yeah. Throwing parts in and like, I remember just literally screaming into the ether like, I need a mag motor. It's an E20 foot eight, you know what I mean? And like, one would show up. I don't even know who gave it to us. I don't know who pulled it out of what drawer. It just showed up. We never heard anything about it ever again. And went to the robot. The whole thing went back together. And in 20 minutes, that bail spear back together in the box, he got his fight.
- [37:03]
Ryan Hunter
So some of our favorite human beings, some of our best, like friends in this, in combo robotics, like, they. There's so many people that would do anything to help somebody else and want nothing for it or just be like, hey, if you destroy it, pay me for it afterwards, or something like that. Like, yeah, the. I, my, my most recent robot, we couldn't figure out how to. I, I made Very Delft 4 Motors in the Beetle 4 Drive Motor Independent Drive motors in a Beetle is not a smart thing to do. No, but I wanted to do it because I wanted, I wanted a weird robot, right? And we figured out like right at the last moment that the transmitter that I had was not going to work. Like, there was no way.
- [37:54]
Justin
It didn't have enough channels. It didn't have enough channels.
- [37:57]
Ryan Hunter
Yeah, yeah. It couldn't be programmed. So I was able to just DM Seth of Just Cuz Robotics. I went, what can I do to solve this? And Seth was like, oh, I'll be there. You could use my transmitter. Don't worry about it. And he programmed it for me the night before. And the transmitter came and I was able to fight with his transmitter all day. And it was just one of those things of it. It's like there's so many people, you could be sitting in a pit and just like going, I think I destroyed my robot. Or like, this isn't going to work, right? And all you have to do is turn to the person next to you or just like find one person that's going to lead to a chain of other people that is going to help you reprogram your robot is going to tell you exactly how this works and everything like that. And it's such an organic and such a beautiful thing. And like an NHRL going there and in the smaller events in the northeast and everything like that, there are certain people that are just known as being good at certain things. And if they're at the event, that's where you're going. You're talking to that person and that person's going to help you. Even if they need to rebuild their robot, they're probably be like, oh, I'm not worried about my robot. Let's figure out your robot first. It is so amazing and it is such a good part of this community.
- [39:17]
Ravi Babal
It is. And it's.
- [39:18]
Tony Baker
I think that's the one thing that I would love to get the general population to understand.
- [39:23]
Ravi Babal
Sure.
- [39:24]
Tony Baker
Yeah. It's like, because they don't see that part. Yeah. They see the competition, they see the clips of this destroyed bot. It's like, haha, the person's laughing. It's like that's what they see. They don't see all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes and how amazing this community.
- [39:43]
Ryan Hunter
I'm not sure if it was really like at the last nhrl. There was the moment at the very end in the 12 pounders where robocat was just sitting and laying on the table and then you were watching their opponent be worked on, but it was worked on by every person of every different. Like you could see like different team jerseys, everything around this and you couldn't even see the robot because there's too many people standing over it, working on it. It was so good. It is so excellent.
- [40:17]
Ravi Babal
It is brilliant. And the thing about that, like, you know, we talked about the most Canadian thing ever. That's, that's what we're talking about. We want to perpetuate that culture. We want to perpetuate that, that, that situation, event to event. Because it's, it's organically the weirdest thing. It just happens, right? Like totally disconnected events, totally different people and you can walk in and the culture is very similar in that perspective, generally speaking. So it's just like weird situation where it naturally organically propagates. Somehow smashing robots together makes you like a super communist. I don't know. Who knows, you know, like every door, door, door guy. My parts are your parts. Right. I got, you know. Yeah.
- [40:56]
Tony Baker
So you get all your aggression out in the box. Yeah.
- [40:59]
Ravi Babal
You don't have any.
- [41:00]
Tony Baker
It's like, we're going to be friends afterwards. Like I'll destroy your body, it doesn't matter. But we're still friends, are going to help each other.
- [41:05]
Ravi Babal
Yeah. So like we want to, like we want to just keep making sure that that's a core focus. Because when we have a rookie coming into our events and we have all the time now is I walk up and I say, listen, so happy to have you here. You know, tell me about your robot, whatever. And my parting statement is always, if you want to learn something, go talk to that person. If that person over there is doing something really cool and you want to learn how to do that, the only way you're going to learn is you have to go talk to that person. So we're all here because we would like to see robots die. That is the only introduction you need. Go talk to a guy. And the community just builds itself around that, that, that concept. So like I love watching like the, the 10 year old kid with his parents sitting at the table beaming at him, walk over and talk to the bedraggled 67 year old guy who's like, you know, just got a full titanium, you know, robot or something. And like they'll just sit and at the same level have a conversation about why killing robots is cool. Yeah, yeah.
- [42:04]
Tony Baker
And it's really cool because the majority of, especially the younger kids that are getting into the sport are kind of on that spectrum and there might not be the ones that are talking to the kid at school in the cafeteria and everything else. These are kids who are isolated or doing stuff for fun. It's like, and now they get put into a community where everybody's basically like them, everybody's just enjoying that and it really breaks them out of that shell, which I think is absolutely amazing.
- [42:34]
Ravi Babal
I agree 100%. 100%.
- [42:36]
Justin
I would also like to say that it's nice to hear like an organization like you said that you're 100% builder focused. I mean that's basically why we all started doing this. One of our core focuses, our core tenants is shining light on the builders. That's why we do the builder interviews
- [42:55]
Ravi Babal
and stuff like that.
- [42:56]
Justin
Is trying to tell the stories that aren't always known and are always told.
- [43:01]
Ryan Hunter
So it's very cool.
- [43:22]
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- [44:42]
Justin
Hey everyone, you're already listening. So you know the Fison and we when the episode does. But the Havoc rundown now lives over@ Havocrundown.com again. That's Havocrundown.com that's where we're posting Combat Robotics news, hosting every episode of the show, and running the largest Combat Robotics bot registry that's ever been put together. Stats, history, teams and results all built to grow alongside the sport. We're also curating fight videos, rolling out community games, and dropping merch for anyone who wants to rep the chaos. And the 2026 fantasy league league is live right now. You can create your own fantasy league for a full season or spin one up for a single day event. Draft robots track performance across events and compete in a way that actually fits how Combat Robotics is run. This year, our focus is the sport as a whole. If robots are fighting, it belongs in the conversation. All leagues, all formats, all rule sets, from local events to competitions around the world. We have got you covered. Thank you for listening everyone. Let's get you back to the episode and back to the chaos right now. So you talked about the. The community. You mentioned the Discord. The one question I want to ask about that is, is it as chaotic as the NHL Discord or is. Is it a little bit more tame? Because I'm not. I'm about to, to see if I could join your Discord just so I can see. But I, I feel like it's probably a little bit more tame than the NHL Discord.
- [46:18]
Tony Baker
Uh, I love this Discord.
- [46:20]
Ravi Babal
I, I don't, I don't spend a lot of time in the NHL Discord. I, I just, I just don't have the time or the bandwidth, so I can't make A one to one comparison. I will say I find our Discord to be very well, well, well loved. Okay, is it well used? Yes. But is it well loved by the community? Yes. So anytime there's a weird thing that happens, the first thing that happens is somebody tags a community member, an admin team member. So like we get a scammer come in, they get dogpiled immediately. And like I get pings like, Ravi, Ravi, Ravi, Ravi, you know, and the first like one of the admin team, like we descend like from, from down the mountain and we're like, this community is protected and we just like band Hammer that immediately. But that community, they, they talk constantly. They talk constantly to the point where I have to mute a lot of the channels just to like get any work done throughout my day. But when I do jump back in, there's like team channels that are just crammed full of people going, you know, ideas back and forth. You know, speaking of Seth, a couple weeks ago, one of the builders was like having a problem with one of their parts and like they were asking some really deep questions about the motor or whatever. And like, Seth, like came in, found their channel and like went and talked to the manufacturer that made the part on their behalf to answer the question. And I thought that was like a really like very Bob Brawl response to be like, don't worry, let me take, let me, let me help you. You know, let me go that extra, extra 10 steps or whatever to help you.
- [47:57]
Tony Baker
Yep.
- [47:58]
Ravi Babal
But yeah, I mean, check out the community. The Discord's super chill. Everybody's there to like just have a conversation about fighting robots. There's very little off topic conversation happening, quite honestly, and it's very active. Cool.
- [48:12]
Justin
So I wanted to talk about the event infrastructure a little bit. You do, you know, all the event management. How is the how. Let's talk about the main event. You said that's coming up.
- [48:23]
Tony Baker
The.
- [48:24]
Justin
Well, I'm forgetting the name.
- [48:25]
Ravi Babal
The one that's Summer Classic.
- [48:26]
Justin
Summer Classic. How does a normal event like that event get managed from event registrations to fighting robots and all of that? And what is it like managing that?
- [48:39]
Ravi Babal
All right, so this is going to be interesting because we're working on. We're deploying new systems. We're deploying new systems for a little while. This Summer Classic is going to be one of the first where we're using entirely all homebrewed software. So Tyler. Tyler Beetle is historically our brackets guy. Right. He's our registration guy and our brackets guy. So when we launch on the database, he's the first one that sets everything up. He, you know, he does a lot of the shepherding. I help where he, where he needs help. And the division of labor is like, I handle the money side of things, of the registration and the waivers. And he handles, like, the nuances of getting robots registered and stuff. However, the builder's database. Love you. You're an institution. We had to go. Thank you for all the fish. So now we have like this Homebrew system on BotProl CA that Doug Ireland, our AV guy, just like, lost his mind and coded the whole thing in like a weekend. It was. It's crazy. So we have our own homebrew system with our own brackets and our own registration portal. But you, you know, you go to the website, you sign up, you build, you make an account or you claim an account if you're already, you know, existing team, register your robot, do your payment, upload your waivers. And that's the big thing. You upload the waivers to the website. Don't email me waivers anymore. I will send you, I will turn you around, upload it to the website. I hate into the email thing. And then from there you get assigned a seed based on your elo. We have elo, right? Hands down. And that gets completely randomized in our bracket through the Challenge API. And we have a full fight system built in now. So from the minute we say roll call is done, we're at the event. Safety is done, roll call is done. It's time to go. It's 12 o'. Clock. We have, you know, 14 hours of fights to get through. We're going to hit go. And the system essentially starts to run itself from the perspective of robots that are all checked in, robots that are all green. Bracket starts going first fight, second fight, third fight, fourth fight, sixth fight, seventh fight, seventh fight, you know, doesn't work anymore because robot A, you know, exploded in the pits. Automatic substitution. And we have like a full running list on a screen. People can access it on their phones. When we first did the trial at Anime north, people crashed the website because everybody was on their phones trying to look at their fights and get it figured out. And every time there's a, every time there's a win loss, the judges input their, their decision. It gets thrown right into the system, it gets recorded, and your win fight ratio starts to drive your live ELO ranking as well. So it's like, it's a system, guys. Like, it's, it's a, it's.
- [51:19]
Tony Baker
I know. I built a similar thing.
- [51:21]
Ravi Babal
It's it's like it's. Doug just knocked this thing out of the park. It's. It's crazy. It's. It's crazy.
- [51:29]
Tony Baker
So yeah, I, I have to because I built a very similar system with and havoc rundown and all this like stuff pulling stuff from around the world and everything else. And you guys are doing your ELO now. So why'd you choose elo? So a lot of wonderful other systems out there. Except for the fact that it's simple.
- [51:47]
Ravi Babal
Except for the fact that it's simple. So elo. We chose ELO for a few reasons. The first thing is we wanted a ranking system that we could deploy nationally. So when you're part of the affiliate program, part of the deal is you give us your fight bracket at the end of the event and we calculate the ELO for the robots that are part of your event. And we have this concept of a national tournament. National championship. I know Kilo Bot has a national champion in Saskatchewan, but like I talked to Curtis, he's cool. We can do one too, you know, don't worry about it. And the idea being like you accrue your ELO by going to your local event or going to a main event or going to an event on the other side of the country. And every fight you get, you accrue elo. And the goal is to create a level of elite builder that is traveling the country cross pollinating across these different events to raise their ELO in order to get into the championship tournament and the national championship tournament. You know, the concept is. And like we, we. This is part of like the whole 30 pound combat thing. The concept is it's Elo locked to a certain limit and you get a couple wild cards and you get a couple freebies, you know, so you get noobs in and stuff like that. But if you want to be part of that national championship which is like produced and streamed, not in like the hokey battlebots way. Sorry guys. Sorry. Sorry guys. But like a proper F1, that's. That's the comp. F1, F1 style production. And we started a production production house called Bob Roll Media to like shepherd this thing through where we're gonna. We want to like do we want to try and pay the builders for this? We want to say, hey, you're like the creme de la creme. You've traveled the country fighting your robots, you've iterated and you have to fight the same robot too to maintain your elo. It doesn't follow the builder, it follows the robot. So like one really good builder just can't dominate. It follows a robot. And we want to be able to like, hey, we're going to do this big national championship event. We're going to like stream the whole thing. We're talking, we're trying to talk to not like actual broadcast partners in Canada, like Crave tv, cbc, gem, tvo, which are like the Canadian versions of the Discovery Channel, to kind of get things out there a little bit. And we say, like, we want to pay the builders to do that. Because I always hated the BattleBots thing where it's like, come and fight, bring $80,000 worth of equipment, get it completely thrashed, and if you win your fight, maybe you can go buy hamburgers for dinner. I hated it. I hated it.
- [54:17]
Tony Baker
Like so almost like a true pro system.
- [54:19]
Ravi Babal
Yeah, it was like, say what you will. It just, it just felt so exploitative, you know, like, gonna have to say it. Sorry guys. Sorry Trey. Sorry Greg. But so we want to like kind
- [54:31]
Justin
of a little bit, you know, there's a reason. Why am I forgetting Bite Force. Why am I forgetting? There's a reason why he walked away.
- [54:40]
Ravi Babal
Crazy. Yeah. So that's.
- [54:43]
Tony Baker
You mentioned Killabox. Are you guys gonna work with them? They. I know they've been going on for decades.
- [54:49]
Ravi Babal
Yeah, forever. They're an establishment. They were before. They'll be after. We don't get a lot of cross pollination, you know, partially because the, the, it started with like the weird robot weight class. Like they were a little bit outside the norm. And then now we don't get a ton of cross pollination because there's not as enough incentive to make that trip right now. So my hope is not that they have to join the Umbrella. They can like, you know, we're, we're friends with, with Kilobots. Curtis came down to Anime North. He hung out with us for like two straight days, you know, checked everything out, had dinner with us and stuff, sponsors our events. You know, we do a ton to try and support Fingertech Robotics as a Canadian organization. And if they're like, you know what, we want to like have a conversation and be part of the CEO program, I don't see why we couldn't do it. It's not meant to be exclusive to one stream of thinking. It's meant to be available for all of Canada. And if like, that's how we can get cross pollination to their events back and forth, then I don't see why we wouldn't capitalize on that. So that's one of the reasons why we went for ELO as a ranking system is because it gives us elo, specifically gives us the ability to say you did a, you did an event at a rookie league. Like they have. They're brand new, the robots are brand new. You get a lower multiple on the ELO score. You don't get a one, you get, you get a quarter percent. So that if you're a really good builder and you go out there and you thrash a brand new community of builders, don't think you're coming home a hero. You're only going to get a small ELO score out of that. Right? Because it's just not fair to be like, go kill everybody and then now you're the top of the leaderboard. Whereas if you do like a big championship event, then you get a better multiplier because now you're fighting the country's best robots, right? Or the, you know, the North America's best robots in theory. So the ELO program specifically, we, we opted for that because it lets us wait different fights and different events in different ways as well as have decay rules. So like, let's say you get to the top of the leaderboard. If you're not fighting for five years, you know, you don't just remain at the top of the leaderboard. Your, your rate decays and you know, within a year. So that's, that's why eloquence now just
- [56:55]
Justin
before we move to anything else, because Tony, you, you became the, the master of. And I always forget the name that we use, but what's the difference between ELO and. Yeah, what's, what's the difference between the two?
- [57:08]
Tony Baker
So the, the Glyco. Glyco score typically will work on a timeline. So where I have it going is I have literally, I have stuff going back to the 1990s and. But it literally builds all the way up through where elo. You don't necessarily need to have that backlog of information to really get those scores moving. You can do it on a individual. Fight, fight, fight. Okay, so that's why RCL uses an elo. Merkle uses an elo. That's where most of them use those ELOS type systems, because it can, you can start and go, we're all here 1500. We're just going to move from there at the beginning.
- [57:46]
Justin
Okay, makes sense.
- [57:47]
Thomas Carroll
Cool.
- [57:48]
Justin
And then the final thing about the rankings, Ravi, has the system ever popped out and surprised you by highlighting a robot or something that you weren't expecting it to?
- [58:00]
Ravi Babal
Yeah, absolutely. Particularly during the League events. So one of the fun things I get to do is at a main tournament event, I usually run the door. Like, I do almost a little bit of everything. But I'm very particular about running the arena doors because load in and loadouts are when accidents happen. So to keep everyone safe, I'm very particular about running the door. So, like, I see every fight, but, like, not really, because I'm watching for, like, did the light bulb fall off? And I'm turning around and I'm watching, you know, making sure that the. The builder's not going to trip over something and that sort of thing. So I don't always get to track how well a robot performs through an event. So for me, it was a big surprise to, like, look at our yellow rankings and be like, okay, a pudding is killing it. Why is a pudding doing so well? As an example? Or why is Cyclo doing so well? Or why is Anubis, you know, doing so well?
- [58:50]
Ryan Hunter
Or.
- [58:51]
Ravi Babal
It was really surprising to see one of our top robots, Left shoe, right foot, they lost a fight recently, and they're. They lost to, like, a relatively newer machine, essentially. And like, the. The change in ELO was. Was incredible to watch live, you know, and it happens live on the screen. As they win, it updates instantly. So, like, the metrics, for me, as an organizer and, like, enthusiast of the sport, obviously to be able to see these robots progress through a numerical filter has been really helpful to understand how these builders and how these robots are performing. When I don't really get to watch their fights, I'm there, but, like, you know, up here, I'm making sure nobody's dying in the pits, you know, curled up in a ball or something. And so, yeah, it's been really effective for me personally, just to be able to see that.
- [59:41]
Thomas Carroll
So I've got perhaps per chance, possibly, maybe in a way, the most important question about all of this. Okay, you talked a lot about, you know, cutting down the pole and sumo and listening, you know, kind of just being the best whole league with this whole ELO system. That's not what matters. What really matters is where do you get the best poutine from,
- [60:06]
Ravi Babal
bro? Okay, so there's levels of poutine. We're going to talk about this for the next hour. You guys buckle in. Okay, so if it's got shredded cheese, it's not poutine. First and foremost, if you see. Yeah, if you see shredded cheese, you walk away.
- [60:19]
Tony Baker
I have cheese curds.
- [60:20]
Ravi Babal
It's got to be cheese curds. All right? And the Gravy. You can have different kinds of gravy. I, I, I would even say you may have marinara sauce and call it a poutine to a certain extent. End some Italian poutines. They're pretty good. Now the best poutine is my personal favorite is smokes double pork poutine. It is Canadian chain. There used to be one in Hamilton, Ontario. That's where I went to university or college. And there was down on the, like the bar district, there was a smokes poutine and they like, I just go and like walk through the crowds of zombies just to get a poutine in the middle of the night. And it's like the best fries. This peppercorn gravy, pulled pork and bacon and just a mountain of cheese curds. It's really good. I haven't been there for ages, but they have a solid poutine now.
- [61:08]
Thomas Carroll
This sounds so sweet.
- [61:09]
Ravi Babal
It's, it's so delicious. It's so good. And they have like a couple, a bunch of different kinds of poutines. Now the, the fun part in Canada right now is you can get a poutine anywhere. And I mean anywhere. All of the fast food joints have poutine. From McDonald's to Wendy's to Burger King to A W. They all have poutine. All of them. And, and we have a shawarma. Like we have shawarma restaurants in every corner. Every corner. And they all have poutine and they're all like phenomenal. If you go, if you see a shawarma shop, you go and you get a bunch of delicious fries. Like Laziz is my favorite. Lizzie's, you know, here it's a shawarma joint and like they roast the chicken on the spit and stuff. But like they have the best fries. They're double coated. They shave the meat and they put on the flat top to crisp it up. It goes on top, you get the gravy, you get the cheese curds, then you get the garlic sauce on top and you get the hot sauce on top. It is so good. Whenever my wife and I are like, man, we like, we're cooked. The kids have killed us. This weekend sucked. It was hot. We did so much. We don't want to cook. We feed the kids, we make them their delicious dinner with all the nutritional building blocks they need, put them to bed and then we just order lazies for ourselves because they deliver each and every time. It's delicious. But like Harvey's, I don't know if you guys Have Harvey's in the States still. There's that Canadian thing.
- [62:29]
Justin
Yes.
- [62:29]
Ryan Hunter
All right.
- [62:30]
Justin
Yeah, I, I just, I just went to Maryland and there was a couple on the way there and back.
- [62:34]
Ravi Babal
Sorry. Harvey's. They have a killer poutine. One of the best fast food poutines out there. It's like, no, no componently. No complaints. Really good McDonald's poutine sucks. Wendy's poutine sucks. Burger King poutine's. All right. A and W. Poutine's different. These are chicken gravy. I told you. I told you. We're talking about this for a long time. They use a chicken gravy.
- [62:51]
Thomas Carroll
Oh, yeah. No, I have had the A and W1, though. It's not what you're expecting if you're used to other poutines. But it wasn't bad. It was middle of the road.
- [62:58]
Ravi Babal
Better than functional. It's functional. Popeyes has poutine too. You know, it's just kind of weird. And you know what? I know. I know a lot of people that will double live by Costco's poutine. And it is a legitimate. It is a legitimate choice.
- [63:13]
Thomas Carroll
Does an American membership work at Canadian Costco?
- [63:16]
Ravi Babal
Yes, it's international. You may use your Costco membership anywhere in the world. And the Costco poutine is actually. It stands on its own. It's actually really good. We're going to have to get a
- [63:27]
Thomas Carroll
Costco membership just for this. Have you been to the giant orange in Montreal?
- [63:35]
Ravi Babal
I have not.
- [63:36]
Thomas Carroll
Orange Julie. It's hard to miss. But yeah, it's a giant orange. They're poutine. Pretty good.
- [63:41]
Ravi Babal
I'll. I'll keep note of that orange.
- [63:45]
Thomas Carroll
Well, you guys in the US Is still better than everything in the US
- [63:50]
Ravi Babal
or best, worse than Canada.
- [63:51]
Thomas Carroll
Better than us. What are we killing you guys?
- [63:54]
Ryan Hunter
You guys are killing me because I had a salad for dinner. I. And now I'm just imagining this glorious poutine and I just.
- [64:02]
Thomas Carroll
It's only like six hours away. You can just go, oh, yeah, there you go.
- [64:07]
Ravi Babal
Yeah, yeah. They'll let you cross the border. You can say that. You can say this. I'm working for team.
- [64:12]
Justin
I'm here for protein.
- [64:13]
Ravi Babal
And it's fine.
- [64:14]
Ryan Hunter
I try not to cross borders anymore. Every time I cross a border, something happens. It is not good.
- [64:20]
Thomas Carroll
Well, yeah, you get a world of wonderful food.
- [64:23]
Tony Baker
The best was a couple weeks ago. I was up in Niagara Falls and I was eating poutine and the FIFA World cup thing right outside the Niagara Falls park with a thousand Other people watching the Brisloe game.
- [64:37]
Ravi Babal
It was amazing. That's.
- [64:39]
Thomas Carroll
Man. I got ripped off. Last time I went to Canada, I crossed Niagara Falls. I found this little food truck. I'm like, oh, cool. A food truck in Canada serving basically almost poo, only poutine. I get it. It had all the horrible staples, the shredded cheese, bad fries. It had a weird sauce on it. That wasn't gravy. It was. I. I ate like a third of it and then I drove to Burger King because anything was better than that. Everything's been great.
- [65:06]
Ravi Babal
Yeah, no, they did you dirty. That's a shame.
- [65:08]
Justin
Before we get to the mailbag really quick, because you've touched on it a couple times. I. I just wanted to get a more in depth look at it. You kept keep on talking about the league. Do you want to just fill in how exactly your league works? Just a little bit more details about the league before we get into the mailbag?
- [65:25]
Ravi Babal
Oh, yeah, sure. So the league, that's really Andrea and Doug's baby, but the league, we had an opportunity to partner with Burlington Community Robotics, which is an amalgamation of FRC teams, essentially. And the mentors started this establishment where they got a building and they said, we're going to put a bunch of mills in here, we're going to put a bunch of laser cutters, we're going to put a bunch of tools in here, and we're going to make it open to different FRCS teams and schools. And the schools and teams are now part of this organization. They come, they build their robots, they have a big, you know, practice field. It's a really, really cool thing. And it's only about. I mean, it's. We're on Southern Ontario, so, like, for me, they're 45 minutes away maybe. But we had an opportunity to partner with them last year. We're continuing this year. We're likely to continue next year as well. And they said, no problem. We're going to give you guys like a big garage bay. We set up our original arena down there and they store it for us and we run events there and we run the league event. Now the league event is designed to be sort of a pickup league. You pay a registration fee at the beginning and that gives you access to the league anytime you go. It runs every Friday for about five to six weeks in the middle of the year. So right now it's running right now and you get as many fights as you can stomach pretty much during fight night. So fight night kicks off at 7:30pm EST and goes until like 10 o'. Clock. We do 30 pound Sumos, we do 1 pound robots combat and 3 pound combat robots. We set up the bracket beforehand and you just go and you fight and you fight and you fight and you fight and you come back next week, you get seven nights back to back of fighting. That is league. And it's, it's more of a grassroots style tournament. Like the big tournaments we do are great. Like we got our, our two massive heavy duty, custom built fighting arenas that we partnered with MOG to build two years ago to like seven, eight grand each. They're crazy. And we got a big sumo arena. Whereas at league you go and it's like back in the day where it's like a small venue, we have some spectators out there, there's a couple pit tables set up. We have our OG arena set up. You know, they built a sumo platform out there to have sumos and we just go through, you know, fight after fight after fighting. And it's that community that just kept, they kept telling us they wanted more fights and we said, fine, leave. Go, go. You have seven nights to fight your heart out.
- [67:48]
Justin
Go fight until you don't want to fight anymore.
- [67:49]
Ryan Hunter
Here you go.
- [67:50]
Ravi Babal
Yeah, trouble is they keep coming back for more. I don't know.
- [67:53]
Justin
Yeah, okay, that sounds really cool. Do you broadcast that? Is that something that people can watch?
- [67:58]
Ravi Babal
Yeah, we broadcast it live and it's available on our YouTube page as well. Okay, very cool.
- [68:04]
Justin
I like that. I'm going to have to watch it. Okay, so we are going to move directly from this right into the mailbag. So let us open that up and check and see what we have.
- [68:16]
Ravi Babal
You've reached the voicemail of the HAVOC rundown. Please leave your message after the tone.
- [68:22]
Justin
So the first one comes from Alex G of wpi. He says, hi, Ravi. What difference do you see in the Canadian insect weight scene versus the American scenes in areas just across the border like New England, MRCA and pnw. What do you think drive those differences despite the relative closeness?
- [68:40]
Ravi Babal
Okay, that's an interesting question. Okay, interesting question. I'm going to give you an interesting answer and I don't want anyone to be offended by this. All right? So if you're New England, you're part of. Well, you know, except for you, mrca, you know, you're part of that is the, the robots and the difference in the designs that I see from those machines versus the robots we're seeing here is they're minute, right? Like Apex designs and meta, they crop up. However, the thing That I observe most often with our community is our builders are building the robots for the love of the game. And I'll expand on that a little bit more. They're not chasing like the weird and wacky designs, they're not chasing the crazy meta. They're building the robot that they want to build that they think will do best. And I know you're going to say every robot builder does that, but there's like a nuance to the way the robots get put together out here that focus on like the excellence of the craft of that robot. Like we get the most weirdly, like intricate, like crushing robots. Like we have this one guy like Leo, he puts this crushing robot and like nobody else would put that thing together because it's a ridiculous robot to build. And it's called like Kevlar threads and stuff that, you know, actuate the crushing mechanism. But he, the man sat down and designed this thing for no other reason than he wanted to see that very well engineered robot put together. We have machines that come out here and like left shoe, right foot. I've said that a few times too. Like Garrick builds weird robots, but the execution is immaculate. And that's, I think the differentiator is all these machines. There's so much attention and detail put into the execution of the design and that's in my opinion, what makes it unique.
- [70:30]
Justin
Okay, next one I have comes from Sam of nhrl Henchman Sam, Ravi B. Hope you're doing well. Any new spring loaded designs in the works?
- [70:44]
Ravi Babal
Oh, that's a throwback. That's a real throwback. So like I had a 30 pound hammer robot from like 2024, maybe 2026 I was putting together. I was a young lad back then. It was a long time ago where I'm like, yeah, springs, robots, spring loaded hammer, let's do it. Never worked well, ever. I abandoned it for like, for like a brushless drive system on the hammer. That was an impactor, my 30 pound hammer. Beautiful. 30 pound robot. I love that thing. It's sitting, you know, in pieces of my garage right now. I look, there is one robot I've always wanted to build, that spring loaded that I never had the time to do it and I would love to do it one day. And it was actually designed that hot coin crafted a number of years ago. And it was a Luger based flipping mechanism. That was the sketch that Hawkin had made where like the Luger firearm was a very unique firearm where the actuation mechanism was like a multi jointed apparatus that like Sprung up in a funky way. And he had like, built a little, cute little robot that used it. And I saw that and I messaged popcorn. I'm like, this is the coolest thing ever. I want to build this. Can I build this one day? Yeah, no problem. Go ahead and build it. I would. And I, like, in my mind I have the perfect, like, spring actuated system. I used to be super into paintball, so like spring mounted Sears was. Was a big part of that back in the day. And like, I still have the design seared on the back of my mind. I would love to build it. It would be so much easier now with the rise of 3D printing. Yeah, we had a robot just recently at Anime North. It was a, like, it was a. It was a tantrum style vertical disc punching robot, right. So the disc was recessed in the body and when they went to strike, it actuated forward and the builder built a Luger actuating system. It is the coolest thing in the world. And I saw the robot pass safety and like, I ran over and I'm like, you didn't. You did this. Why did you. This is the is. I love that machine. I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head because it was a new build, but like, boy, did that thing just. Just light up my day. All right, let's get rolling.
- [72:52]
Justin
That'd be cool to say. No, the future is. I can picture like what you're saying. What, what weight class was that? Was that a Beetle?
- [73:00]
Ravi Babal
It was. It was a three. Yeah, it was a three.
- [73:02]
Justin
Nice that.
- [73:03]
Ravi Babal
It was so smooth too. It was so smooth.
- [73:06]
Thomas Carroll
See, don't just put a gun on the Battlebot. Make the Battlebot a gun.
- [73:10]
Ravi Babal
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [73:13]
Justin
What was, what was the Battlebot from, like, season two? That was. It was black and gold that he put the guns on it.
- [73:20]
Ravi Babal
Yeah, Adam's robot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He had like the Tippmann TPX pistols and the, the special effect paintballs and stuff. It's cool. It's cool. Yeah.
- [73:32]
Justin
So Brenton from Force of Will Robotics says, are there any efforts to bring heavyweight events, even just sportsman events or events with KE limits?
- [73:40]
Ravi Babal
I mean, heavyweights. No, that's crazy. Nobody's doing heavyweights. But like, heavyweights are like 250, you know, 220. 250, but yeah, 30. So we want to hit 30 pound combat. That's people. You know, the community keeps asking about it for the long time. It's like a tongue in cheek thing. But, you know, the more we kind of grow, the more viable it seems. So we are right now executing on a three to four year plan to try and make 30 pound combat a thing. And that's, I mean, that's, that's it. That's what, that's what we're trying to do. And we would love to, to do it up big with a new modern arena. And there's a plethora of 30 pound combat robots in the States. There's a couple, you know, kind of sneaking around up here that, that go down to compete. But I'd love to see sports. I mean, Sumo's kind of like sportsman, but I'd love to see like a true sportsman and a true high ke 30 pound event up here, hands down. It's on the roadmap, you know what I mean? We're working on it.
- [74:39]
Thomas Carroll
Yeah. Okay.
- [74:41]
Justin
Julian Papazian says give me your top two or three Canada versus USA Robot Dream Fights.
- [74:47]
Ravi Babal
Oh, dang. Okay, so I like the, I like brawling robots. Robots with big spinners, like Tombstone and like Witch Doctor and stuff. Super fun, super great. They spin up real fast and then you get one or two whacks and then something breaks. What one robot or the other just, you know, dies. What I really like are the brawling robots, like Lucky for instance, where it just, like, it just, it just punches you in the face every time you get close to it. I love, I love that design with the four bar flipper mechanism. It's not really a flipper, just, just hits you as hard as it can.
- [75:21]
Tony Baker
And then uppercut was when I really liked that.
- [75:23]
Ravi Babal
That uppercut was great. I, I, you know, Complete Control gets an honorable mention every time because it's like the quintessential Canadian robot. I remember watching Derek Young as a young lad watching BattleBots on TV. Like, I want to do that one day. And then, you know, Battlebots came around, he got to bring it back and they never, they never really fought it. They got a couple fights in the first season. You know, they got, they got Bombshell made the roasted Bombshell. But I would love to see like a team up between like Lucky and Complete Control, where Lucky gets to punch the heck out of anybody compete Control can grab. And on the like, on the US Side, I love to see like Tantrum because I love Tantrum. Right again, it's one of those robots that, that's able to brawl. Yeah, it's got a spinner, but the actuation mechanism lets the robot get in, get the damage, get out, and you get this, this juxtaposition of, like, this punch where they need to reposition. They need to go back in, you know? And then, of course, this one of the same robots is this Jameson goes robot. He's like, what is he. He won, right? Oh, come on, man.
- [76:28]
Tony Baker
Saw Blaze.
- [76:29]
Ravi Babal
Sorry, Sawblaze. Yeah. Saw Blaze. Saw Blaze is another robot where they get to do that, right? They get to get in, they get to do the damage, and they have to come back out. I would love to see, like, a tag team of those robots on us or Canadian side just, like, going at it, because I feel like it would be a super entertaining matchup that would go the full fight, you know? Yep.
- [76:49]
Justin
Derek and Klee Control are the ones that had the box with the net in it, right?
- [76:54]
Ravi Babal
Yeah, yeah, they did the box.
- [76:56]
Justin
Yeah. That's why they kept on calling them the bad boy of combo robotics. I mean, I introduced him when he was judging.
- [77:02]
Ravi Babal
I mean, if. Yeah, I mean, that, like, hey, I get it, it's a TV show. But, like, some of that stuff, someone
- [77:08]
Thomas Carroll
had to do it.
- [77:09]
Tony Baker
I was.
- [77:09]
Ravi Babal
I was the bad guy at one point, you know, like, all right, make the. Make the brown guy the bad guy. I see how.
- [77:14]
Ryan Hunter
Dude.
- [77:14]
Ravi Babal
All right. But.
- [77:16]
Ryan Hunter
Well, that was.
- [77:17]
Justin
That's one of the things that you learn when you. When you watch BattleBots, and then you actually learn about the community. Like, any of the. Like, Jake or like, any of them like that, where they're trying to make them a bad guy because it's a TV show and they need that dynamic. And then you actually meet them behind or you hear the stories of, like, what actually happened, and you're like, yeah, they were just hyping that up.
- [77:39]
Ryan Hunter
Like, that would.
- [77:40]
Justin
None of that was actually true. It was all.
- [77:42]
Thomas Carroll
No, it was real. Jamo's actually a really mean, evil person. Next time you see jmo, don't get close to him, because he'll probably try to help you out with your robot. I mean, he'll try to break your robot. Yeah.
- [77:53]
Ravi Babal
Like, I haven't seen JMO in, like, years. Like, we used to compete at. At, you know, NERC events together. Motorama stuff. But, like, the most jovial guy ever. And he was, like, the same way about. So, like, you know, the average are, like, the salt of the earth kind of folks, too. It's. It's just. It's. It's really funny, but I get it. Like, you know, we're a bunch of robot nerds. We're not that entertaining. So you gotta. Yeah. Do stuff.
- [78:17]
Justin
Have to do something to make the story.
- [78:19]
Thomas Carroll
Yeah.
- [78:20]
Justin
So Brandon, our last mailbox question. Brandon Bennett Young says, how would you say the Canadian scene is? What are some things that excite you about the future of it and the sport as a, like a larger picture?
- [78:33]
Ravi Babal
Sure. I mean, the Canadian scene, I don't think it differs that much from, you know, what's going on in the States. It's been a while since I've been to the States or been to an event. You know, I think the last event I went to in the States honestly was like 2020 and then I had kids and that died for a little bit. You know, they got a little older. We'll see about it. But I don't think the community or the culture has changed that much event to event, you know. But like we talked about the soul of the sport being something that you can find at any event, that anyone that fights robots, I would say the camaraderie is probably a little bit easier to manage here on the Canadian side. It's a little bit cleaner. Um, I generally feel like we have a little less siloing, you know, from that perspective. But from the future, I'm looking, looking forward to the growth. I'm looking forward to a lot of these rookies. I'm looking forward to the next generation of robot. And when I say that, I mean the technological advancement. So we've had some very specific earmarks in technologies that have advanced the sport. Lipo batteries have advanced the sport. Brushless motors being highly commercialized. I would advance the sport. You know, sped spectrum frequency hopping radios would advance the sport. 3D printing has advanced the sport. The proliferation of laser cutting has advanced the sport. Now I can go to set conscend and just get anything I want made and it gets mailed to my house for $20. It's brilliant. I can go buy a 3D printer for 300 in three different heavyweight components. I can print like, like, you know how many heavyweight robots just use TPU stuff now that they just, they pump out on like a bamboo? Yeah, the next iteration of that.
- [80:14]
Ryan Hunter
I, I love the heavyweights, especially nowadays having like TPU parts in it and everything like that. And if you watch all the, every, all the blogs about building these robots, it's like, oh, that's just a 3D part. That's just this over here. It's not like it used to be. I, I, it's, and as we get better as people as like CAD gets more and more in depth and like another thing that has really changed the sport, I feel like, and I'm not sure if it's the same way up in Canada, I'm sure it is. Because you basically, you talked about Seth is like, now there are people like making specific parts just for combat robotics. I'm sure Seth and yeah, yeah, no,
- [81:01]
Ravi Babal
I mean we, we see, you know, parts from Seth, from Jessica's Robotics. We see parts of Figure tech Robotics. We see parts, you know, from repeat and et cetera. And you know, I, I have parts from Seth. Like, I bought a scarab kit, one of the first scarab kits, because I'm like, this is amazing. I want to build a new robot. I'm gonna buy the scarab kit and it's sitting on my shelf because I just never have time to do the robot. But yeah, I, I, I, I've said it before and I'll say it right now, you kids have no idea how good you have it. For God's sakes. Like back in the day, we, we had to scavenge for parts. Like, my first robot was a, like I went to a surplus place, I'm like, hey, this is a motor. And I dig through a bins to find a similar motor. Not even the same motor, like a similar motor. And like, you know, everything was, was a found item. Everything was a scrounged item. But now I can go and get like a world class weapon system for like 200 bucks. It's crazy. Yep. So yeah, I don't know what the next iteration of that paradigm shift will be. Is it going to be 3D printed metal? Maybe? I don't know. Is it going to be a next iteration of brushless technology? It might maybe. Is it going to be more stable high density battery technologies? Probably likely, but the commercialization we're seeing across the spectrum of these technologies is pushing all of this stuff right down to the price point and the availability that we can start seeing. Like we're already seeing holonomic gearboxes in three pound robots. We're seeing, I remember the first robots with lipo batteries were like crazy. I remember having a robot with lipos in it and everybody telling me, you're crazy. What are you thinking? That thing's in a car with us? Because it was, it was such like a sketchy thing back then. So I'm really like, what's going on with the future? I don't know what's next, but I'm really looking forward to the next technological advancement to our sport.
- [82:52]
Justin
Yeah, well, that is a good note to leave on. So before we get out of here, make sure to check out everything. Havoc rundown has Going on. Head over to our website for episodes, links, merch and all the ways to keep up with the show. You can also follow us on social media for episode announcements, clips, community posts and whatever robot nonsense we get ourselves into. That includes going and joining our Discord. We try and get as much activity on there as possible, but the one thing you are going to get on the Discord is fantasy League stuff. Announcements Episode Announcements Mailbag Be able to take part in the Mailbag and ask questions for guests yourself. If you want to support the show directly, check out our Merch and our Buy me a coffee page. It really does help keep the show going, improve what we were doing and bring on more guests from crossroad combat Robotics world. If you enjoying these global Combat Robotics episode, let us know. We want to keep shining a light on different communities, organizers, builders and events that make this sport bigger than just one arena or one country. But that is going to do it for this episode of the HAVOC Rundown. Huge thank you to Ravi for joining us and giving us a deeper look into Bot Pro Canada, BBRL and the Canadian combat robotics scene. It is always exciting to see how this work grows in different places and Brawl is a great example what happens when builders, organizers and community members all start pulling in the same direction. So Ravi, thank you so much for coming on. This was an amazing conversation. You just know exactly how to get across what you're doing and just the amazingness that that you're what you've built is so we very much appreciated coming on and talking to us.
- [84:30]
Ravi Babal
Oh, thank you for having me. This was brilliant. This was a great way to spend my night and I'm looking forward to to going and making kids lunches now. But thank you so much.
- [84:39]
Thomas Carroll
Now we know about poutine.
- [84:42]
Ravi Babal
Hey, Poutine doesn't travel. That's the problem, right? Yeah, that's true.
- [84:46]
Justin
That's true. Thank you also to Ryan, Thomas and Tony for the questions discussion. You guys are always a my amazing team and I appreciate you being on and doing what you do for the podcast. Um, thank you to everyone that sent to the mailbag. Question. These questions keep on getting better every time. Keep them coming. Make sure that again you join our Discord so you can join in on the Mailbag whenever you have a guest that you want to ask a question. To make sure to follow the HAVOC rundown on social media, check out the website, grab some merchant earlier and as this episode got you curious about Canadian Com Robotics, go check out Bot Pro Canada. Ravi wants you. What? What do they search to find on the YouTube. I'll also link it when the website goes. When this episode goes live. But how do they find the Brawl media?
- [85:35]
Ravi Babal
You hit the nail on the head. Bot Brawl Canada. Just go on YouTube, type in bot Brawl. We're right there. You type in BattleBots Canada. We're at the top of the page, easy to find.
- [85:44]
Justin
Okay, beautiful thing. Like I said, I will add a link as well. So go into the episode description, click on that and start going watching Bot Brawl. And maybe go visit Canada and see it for yourself. Until next time, keep the bot spinning, keep the batteries charged, and keep the chaos international. Everyone, say goodbye to our wonderful listeners.
- [86:02]
Ryan Hunter
Goodbye, everyone.
- [86:03]
Ravi Babal
Bye, everybody.
- [86:04]
Thomas Carroll
Farewell.
- [86:05]
Ryan Hunter
Oh, damn, I forgot the game.
- [87:11]
Ravi Babal
Sa.