The HC Commodities Podcast

Episode: The Electrified Battlefront: Energy, Critical Minerals and Defense

Guest: Joe Bryan (Muswell Orange)

Host: Paul Chapman (HC Group)

Date: July 22, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Paul Chapman sits down with Joe Bryan, principal of Muswell Orange and former Chief Sustainability Officer for the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD), to explore the deepening intersection between the energy transition, critical minerals, and modern defense. Their conversation covers the electrification of military technologies, the logistic and strategic challenges posed by domination of battery supply chains by China, the evolving nature of warfare with cheap, battery-powered drones, and the broader implications for national security policy and industrial strategy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Joe Bryan’s Unique Career Path

(02:15) – (05:08)

• Joe Bryan’s background spans Capitol Hill, energy policy, and key sustainability roles at the Pentagon.
• His consulting firm, Muswell Orange, focuses on the intersection of energy transition tech and national security – a specialized, rapidly growing field.

Notable quote:
“I never thought I’d be in defense policy, but here I’ve landed...advising around the intersection of energy transition technologies and national security.” – Joe Bryan (02:39)

2. Military’s Electric Grid Dependence & Grid Security

(05:08) – (07:01)

• U.S. military installations are almost entirely reliant on the commercial electric grid.
• The grid is under new pressure due to manufacturing growth and AI, creating energy security risks for critical military missions.

Notable quote:
“All the challenges we face on the U.S. grid...we face as a military in figuring out how we’re going to support our military bases and the critical missions that are housed there.” – Joe Bryan (05:23)

3. The Long History of Energy Transitions in Warfare

(07:01) – (08:08)

• The energy underpinning military power is nothing new: sail gave way to steam, coal to oil, triggering global shifts (as with the Royal Navy and BP).
• What's different now is the profound electrification of defense platforms—from vehicles to drones.

Notable quote:
“This is also...an old story. What’s changed, of course, is this electrification of defense, the inclusion of batteries everywhere at all time for everything.” – Paul Chapman (07:01)

4. Batteries on the Modern Battlefield: Capabilities & Logistics

(08:08) – (15:52)

• Transition to battery-powered military devices began with efforts to “cut the tether of fuel” in dangerous combat logistics during Iraq and Afghanistan.
• General Mattis famously said: “Unleash us from that tether of fuel” (09:47), motivating hybridization and battery adoption.
• Explosion of battery types on the battlefield has escalated logistical complexity, introducing its own set of risks.

Notable quote:
“One of the most dangerous jobs is delivering fuel on the battlefield...so coming out of Iraq and Afghanistan, there was a lot of work on how to cut that tether.” – Joe Bryan (08:43)

• Batteries are now fundamental to nearly all military equipment—vehicles, unmanned systems, directed energy weapons, and more—mirroring trends in civilian electrification.

Notable quote:
“Almost everything that we now use in the military and everything that we plan to use...relies on batteries.” – Joe Bryan (14:02)

5. The Drone Revolution & Cheap, Electrified Warfare

(15:52) – (18:51)

• Recent conflicts (Ukraine, Israel) showcase how cheap, battery-powered drones can disable billion-dollar assets, shifting the calculus of military advantage.
• The durability and cost-effectiveness of these technologies are fundamentally altering strategies and outcomes on the modern battlefield.

Notable quote:
“It’s notable of the past couple weeks how central small...electric-driven drone technology was to major military initiatives by both Ukraine and Israel—taking out very expensive Russian assets.” – Joe Bryan (17:14)

6. U.S. Energy Dominance vs. Battery Supply Chain Vulnerability

(20:41) – (24:52)

• The shale revolution secured U.S. oil independence, but the nation is now dependent on foreign—namely Chinese—controlled battery supply chains for critical minerals and battery tech.
• This shift poses strategic risk: while the U.S. once won from oil dominance, it is now vulnerable in the electrified age, with China holding the cards in processing and technology.

Notable quote:
“The problem...is twofold: the battery supply chains have shifted predominantly to China, and...the IP, the capability, the know-how sits outside the U.S.” – Paul Chapman (19:21)

• The conversation on supply chain risk emerged around 2016-2020, coming to a head in the Biden administration as people recognized electrification and great power competition with China as defining issues.

7. The Illusion of Market Power: DoD and Private Sector Scale

(24:52) – (31:29)

• Despite a massive DoD budget (near a trillion dollars), military demand for batteries is minuscule compared to the scale required to drive domestic industrial investment.
• Real transformative scale comes from the commercial market—e.g., auto manufacturers—not DoD purchases.
• The DoD’s diverse and particular battery specifications further dilute demand, meaning U.S. industrial policy requires civilian-commercial alignment.

Notable quote:
“All of that demand accumulated is very unlikely to move the market...the transportation sector...is just so much larger than the military’s demand.” – Joe Bryan (28:46)

8. Research & Development as Strategic Leverage

(31:29) – (36:07)

• DoD, DARPA, and other military R&D labs continue to play a critical role in innovation.
• However, much of the real battery breakthroughs and manufacturing advancement are now driven by private sector investment due to outsized commercial opportunity.
• Military innovation remains crucial—for specific defense requirements—but may not set mass-market trends going forward.

Notable quote:
“There’s really exciting and interesting developments coming out of R&D in the private sector every day...given the scale of the battery industry...it’s probably going to be sticky for a while.” – Joe Bryan (34:19)

9. The Philosophy and Politics of Energy Transitions

(36:07) – (42:59)

• U.S. hydrocarbon wealth may have slowed its push towards energy transition technologies compared to energy-dependent countries.
• Inside the Pentagon, Bryan emphasized the nonpartisan advantages (capability, efficiency, logistics) of electrification, beyond climate motives alone.

Notable quote:
“You could fundamentally dismiss climate as a threat...and still think that decisions to use this technology and secure the supply chain are a really good idea.” – Joe Bryan (39:53)

• The episode recounts a recent example: Skydio, an American drone manufacturer, was cut off from Chinese batteries, halting deliveries—even to non-military customers (November 2024). This crystallizes the supply chain risk as tangible, not hypothetical.

10. The Arena for Change: Framing, Alignment, and the Inevitable Battery Battlefield

(42:59) – (45:44)

• Even in a world of global trade and comparative advantage, the awareness of strategic vulnerability ensures that supply chain and critical minerals policy will remain front and center.
• The “Venn diagram” where climate, energy security, and defense overlap is where the greatest policy impact can be made.
• U.S. must reconcile commercial, environmental, and security interests to remain competitive in the electric age.

Notable quote:
“The battlefield of today, and the future, is dominated by batteries and their effects are extraordinary...We’re seeing sort of this weird World War I futuristic war going on tragically in Ukraine that demonstrates that perfectly.” – Paul Chapman (44:09)

• Bryan closes by urging the DoD, and anyone planning for military resilience, to remain “very clear-eyed about its supply chain and the security of that supply chain to support the kind of activities that our military may be asked to do.” (45:11)

Guest’s Advisory Focus & Closing Thoughts

(46:00) – (47:44)

• Joe Bryan’s consulting specializes in “dual-use” energy, battery, manufacturing, and grid/utility technologies that serve both commercial and DoD customers.
• He urges companies in this “true dual-use” space to reach out for guidance, especially where military and civilian innovation align.

Notable quote:
“All the technology areas that I work with are kind of true dual use technologies...if you find yourself in that space and you’re interested in kind of exploring what the market might look like in dual use, give me a call.” – Joe Bryan (46:15)

Most Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Unleash us from that tether of fuel.” – General James Mattis (quoted by Joe Bryan) (09:47)
• “Almost everything that we now use in the military and everything that we plan to use...relies on batteries.” – Joe Bryan (14:02)
• “Taking out very expensive Russian assets...with small, inexpensive, electric-driven drone technology.” – Joe Bryan (17:14)
• “All of that demand accumulated is very unlikely to move the market...the transportation sector...is just so much larger than the military’s demand.” – Joe Bryan (28:46)
• “You could fundamentally dismiss climate as a threat...and still think that decisions to use this technology and secure the supply chain are a really good idea.” – Joe Bryan (39:53)
• “China cut off their batteries, rendering Skydio unable to deliver its product to its customers...not a theoretical risk.” – Joe Bryan (41:30)

Useful Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:15 – Joe Bryan’s career journey & expertise
• 05:08 – Military grid vulnerability
• 08:08 – Battery logistics on the battlefield
• 14:02 – Proliferation and centrality of batteries in defense tech
• 17:14 – Drone warfare reshaping military strategy
• 20:41 – China’s supply chain dominance, policy recognition timeline
• 26:15 – DoD’s limited market leverage vs. private sector
• 32:49 – R&D and innovation ecosystems
• 36:07 – Geopolitical/philosophical reflection on energy transition
• 41:30 – Skydio battery cutoff: supply chain risk real-world example
• 44:09 – The inescapable rise of batteries on the battlefield
• 46:15 – Muswell Orange’s dual-use advisory

Summary

This episode delivers an incisive, forward-looking analysis of how the electrification of defense is rapidly shifting the balance of power, logistics, and national security policy. Batteries—central to new military capabilities—have become both a tactical advantage and a strategic vulnerability due to foreign-dominated supply chains. The conversation masterfully ties together the history of energy transitions in warfare with today’s urgent challenges of innovation, procurement, and policy alignment in a more electrified, unpredictable world.