402: How to Create a Thriving Birth Photography Business with Samantha Tollison

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Heart & Hustle Podcast Episode 402 Title: How to Create a Thriving Birth Photography Business with Samantha Tolleson Release Date: October 8, 2024 Hosts: Evie McLeod & Lindsay Roman Guest: Samantha Tolleson

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Introduction to Samantha Tolleson and Her Journey

[00:13] Lindsay Roman introduces Samantha Tolleson, highlighting her role as a birth photographer, videographer, and podcaster based in North Texas. Samantha's passion lies in empowering women by capturing the profound moments of childbirth through her lens. She attended her first birth as a friend in 2013 and transitioned to photographing births in 2020. Samantha emphasizes her love for the birth community and her commitment to supporting and connecting with others within it.

Behind the Scenes of a Birth Photography Business

[00:48] The conversation delves into the operational aspects of Samantha's business. Evie and Lindsay pose logistical questions covering:

• Lighting Techniques: How Samantha manages various lighting scenarios in hospitals and home births.
• On-Call Responsibilities: The challenges of being available 24/7, handling overlapping due dates, and managing multiple bookings.
• Booking Strategy: Samantha prefers to take three clients per month to minimize the risk of overlapping births.
• Vacation Planning: Discussing how photographers can take time off despite the unpredictable nature of birth dates.
• Financial Viability: Debunking the myth that only wedding photography is profitable, Samantha shares her pricing structure and business sustainability.

Samantha's Path to Specializing in Birth Photography

[06:49] Lindsay Roman asks Samantha about her decision to niche down into birth photography. Samantha explains that she initially dabbled in various photography niches, including weddings, newborns, and events while working another job. Her shift to birth photography became feasible when she could commit full-time in 2020, leading to a deeply fulfilling career that aligns with her passion.

Handling the Unpredictability of Births

[14:22] The discussion shifts to the unpredictable nature of childbirth and how Samantha navigates it:

• Due Date Management: Samantha takes due dates with a flexible approach, understanding that actual birth dates often vary significantly.
• Backup Systems: Residing in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, Samantha has a network of 10-15 backup photographers she can rely on in case of overlapping births.
• Client Communication: She maintains open lines of communication with clients, ensuring they understand the unpredictability and are comfortable with the arrangements.

Notable Quote:

"The possibility of two moms who are due on the same day having their baby on the same day is super rare." – Samantha Tolleson [16:55]

Building Trust and Connection with Clients

[22:13] Samantha emphasizes the importance of establishing trust with expecting mothers. She outlines her process to make clients feel comfortable:

• Pre-Booking Calls: Initial conversations to understand client expectations and ensure compatibility.
• In-Depth Questionnaires: Sent around 34 weeks to gather detailed information about preferences, emergency protocols, and specific moments clients wish to capture.
• In-Person Meetings: Especially for home births, Samantha visits clients' homes to familiarize herself with the environment and meet family members.
• Social Media Engagement: Building relationships through platforms like Instagram, where clients follow her and engage with her content before the birth.

Notable Quote:

"I always jump on a call with them before they book as long as they want to. Again, this is all like what they want." – Samantha Tolleson [23:10]

Technical Aspects of Birth Photography

[36:40] The hosts inquire about the technical challenges, such as lighting in hospitals:

• Use of Flash: Samantha uses flash photography during nighttime or dimly lit births but is flexible based on the mood and client preferences.
• ISO Adjustments: In situations where flash isn’t preferred, Samantha adjusts the ISO to manage low-light conditions, accepting some graininess for authentic moments.
• Adaptability: She emphasizes storytelling over technical perfection, capturing the emotional essence of each birth.

Notable Quote:

"It really just depends on the vibe. It depends on the moment, it depends on the mood." – Samantha Tolleson [39:45]

Navigating Hospital Policies and C-Sections

[44:49] Handling hospital policies is another critical aspect:

• Policy Navigation: Samantha approaches hospital policies with professionalism, often requesting written copies of any restrictions and collaborating with medical staff to ensure compliance.
• C-Sections: She has experience photographing C-sections, understanding the protocols and obtaining necessary clearances from doctors and anesthesiologists.

Notable Quote:

"If I get any pushback on not being in the room or not being able to do photography, my first question is, can you show me the policy?” – Samantha Tolleson [46:00]

Advice for Aspiring Birth Photographers

[51:05] Samantha offers valuable advice for those interested in entering birth photography:

1. Educate Yourself on Birth: Understanding the physiology and emotional aspects of childbirth is paramount. She recommends taking doula certification or birth prep courses.
2. Build a Portfolio Through Practice: Start by photographing friends’ births to gain experience without the pressure of commercial clients.
3. Leverage Community Resources: Engage with Facebook groups and online communities to learn and connect with potential clients.
4. Stay Persistent: Building a reputation and finding the ideal clients takes time and dedication.

Notable Quote:

"Your ideal client makes everything else worth it. You just have to keep pushing through until you meet them, until you find them, or until they find you." – Samantha Tolleson [54:41]

Favorite Resources and Business Lessons

[54:15] When asked about her favorite book, Samantha shares "10 Words to Live By" by Jen Wilkin, praising its modern, practical take on the Ten Commandments.

Regarding business lessons, Samantha underscores the significance of:

• Ideal Client Focus: Focusing on clients who genuinely appreciate and value her work makes the business rewarding.
• Building Relationships: Long-term connections with clients lead to continuous support and referrals, enhancing business sustainability.

Notable Quote:

"It's really hard in the beginning. When you're like, because we all know, like, you get those messages from people that are not your ideal client...” – Samantha Tolleson [55:27]

Final Thoughts and Contact Information

As the episode concludes, Samantha encourages listeners to connect with her through various platforms:

• Instagram, Facebook, Threads, TikTok: @SamanthaTollisonBirth
• Website: samanthatollison.com
• Podcast: Birth in Focus

She expresses gratitude for the opportunity to share her passion and insights, emphasizing the fulfillment she finds in her work.

[57:10] Evie McLeod and Lindsay Roman thank Samantha for her participation, highlighting her expertise and the valuable information shared during the episode.

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Key Takeaways

1. Niche Specialization: Focusing on birth photography can be as profitable and fulfilling as wedding photography when approached with passion and professionalism.
2. Flexibility and Preparation: Being on call requires a flexible mindset and robust backup systems to handle the unpredictability of births.
3. Building Trust: Establishing strong relationships with clients through communication and personal connection is essential in the intimate setting of childbirth.
4. Technical Adaptability: Mastery of lighting techniques, including the judicious use of flash in low-light environments, is crucial for capturing authentic moments.
5. Continuous Learning: Ongoing education in both photography and birth processes enriches the quality of work and client satisfaction.
6. Ideal Client Focus: Prioritizing ideal clients ensures long-term business sustainability and personal fulfillment.

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Notable Quotes:

• "The possibility of two moms who are due on the same day having their baby on the same day is super rare." – Samantha Tolleson [16:55]
• "I always jump on a call with them before they book as long as they want to. Again, this is all like what they want." – Samantha Tolleson [23:10]
• "It really just depends on the vibe. It depends on the moment, it depends on the mood." – Samantha Tolleson [39:45]
• "If I get any pushback on not being in the room or not being able to do photography, my first question is, can you show me the policy?" – Samantha Tolleson [46:00]
• "Your ideal client makes everything else worth it. You just have to keep pushing through until you meet them, until you find them, or until they find you." – Samantha Tolleson [54:41]

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This episode offers an in-depth exploration of establishing and managing a successful birth photography business. Samantha Tolleson's experiences and strategies provide valuable insights for creative entrepreneurs looking to enter this emotionally profound niche.

Transcript

[Lindsay Roman]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are your hosts, Evie McLeod and Lindsay Roman. Welcome back to another show, my friend. Today we are diving into a niche topic that we have never covered on the show before. Pretty sure.

[Evie McLeod]

I don't think ever, actually.

[Samantha Tolleson]

No.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, right. No, never. We are talking about birth photography with the incredible Samantha Tolleson. Now, Samantha is a birth photographer, videographer, and podcaster based in North Texas, and she has been a birth nerd for as long as she can remember. Her passion is to show women how incredibly powerful and capable they are through the lens of her camera. And she attended her very first birth as a friend in 2013 and then attended her first birth as a photographer in 2020. Aside from the creativity and passion that she has for the birth art, she loves to connect with and support others in the birth community. And today we just had such fun talking with her.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. So we covered Samantha basically, like open doors to the behind the scenes of her business and what it looks like. We had a lot of logistical questions for her, from the lighting to how to handle being on call. What happens? How many do you book? What happens if you know mom's due dates or birth and labor overlaps?

[Lindsay Roman]

How do you take a vacation?

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, how do you take time off? The financial possibilities of birth photography. Can it be something super profitable for most photographers when all we hear is wedding photography is the most profitable, lucrative, you know, niche in the industry? So there's a lot that we cover today. There is genuinely so much. So if you are ever even interested in the concept of birth photography, even if you're like, I love what I'm doing. I won't switch to anything else. But you're like, I want to hear the insides of what it is like to document birth for a living. This is such a fun episode, and Samantha is so full of wisdom and experience, and it is so fun to learn from her. So buckle up and let's talk with Samantha. Ever stop your scroll on Instagram and wonder how the heck photographers snagged those wildly candid moments of their clients? You know, the kind of photographs that make you just sit in awe of how stunning they are and the emotions that you feel from them? We have felt that too. And when we first started out as photographers, our number one goal was to make sure our clients were comfortable and feeling like their true, authentic selves. And one of the easiest ways we were able to achieve that was through creative posing prompts.

[Lindsay Roman]

Because here's the truth. If you want to achieve those effortlessly candid Playful and intimate photos. You have to create an environment that allows your couples to feel comfortable to do so. And we are spilling all the tea with some of our favorite directions and prompts in our free photography posing guide. Visit the heartuniversity.com forward/candid to get your hands on this incredible freebie. Prepare to have your clients rave about how much fun they had with you on their session.

[Evie McLeod]

Hey.

[Lindsay Roman]

Hey. I'm Lindsay Roman.

[Evie McLeod]

And I'm Evie McLeod. And we are family and legacy focused serial entrepreneurs and the founders of the Heart University, a business education company with a mission to help you thrive in your business and life.

[Lindsay Roman]

Welcome to our entrepreneur cocktail hour where business and marketing strategies meet faith. Real talk and raw and life changing conversations.

[Evie McLeod]

At the end of the day, we are all in this together, figuring out how to navigate the ups and downs, the messy and the beautiful and everything in between. This is a community where you can come as you are, get inspired and walk away equipped to build a legacy filled life.

[Lindsay Roman]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. Samantha, welcome to the Heart Hustle podcast. We are so beyond excited to have you.

[Samantha Tolleson]

I'm so excited to be here. This is a dream come true for sure.

[Evie McLeod]

Oh, I love it. Well, we were talking before the podcast, really, we started recording and I just kind of want to shout this out because I feel like this masterclass, this is incredible in and of itself. So you pitched yourself to be on this podcast not once, not twice, but five different times. And I just, I love that that you were just so persistent with it. You were like, I want this and you continued to improve. It sounds like your pitch emails with each and every attempt.

[Lindsay Roman]

And you said that in the subject line, you put the number you're at the Heart conference in. Jai said to pitch or you haven't failed unless you failed 10 times or something like that.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yep.

[Lindsay Roman]

And so you said you put as your subject line to pitch yourself, like the number of email out of 10 that this was. Yeah, that is.

[Samantha Tolleson]

I mean, I feel like me being here is a total testament to what you guys teach and all the education you give and how well it works. Because I'm here because of a podcast episode of yours about pitching and because of the HART conference and because of a speaker you had at the Heart conference. So. And I put all of that to good use and that's how I got here.

[Evie McLeod]

I was going to say that's like, first of all, it makes me want to cry just being like, like, you know, our. What we do is making an impact but on top of that, I just want to point out that you take what we, like, have shared or said or what our speakers have shared or said, and you did.

[Lindsay Roman]

You've actually done it.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, because that's the biggest, like, that's the biggest thing is you could listen to this podcast all day long, but if you're not implementing anything from it, you're not to be seeing, like, the. The impact or the changes. And that says so much to you and your work ethic and everything. And that just gets me even more excited to dive in and hear about you and your business and the things you want to share with our audience and all of it. So I guess to kind of just give a brief overview for anyone who's like, all right, I'm ready. I'm ready to learn with this girl alongside this girl who is Samantha, and a little bit about, like, your story and just kind of giving an overview so people are like, same page, know who we're talking about. Let's dive in.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah. So like you said, my name is Samantha. I am a birth photographer and videographer, and I am based just outside of the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex. I've been obsessed with birth and motherhood for really my entire life. It started with a TLC TV show called A Baby Story, and I've been hooked ever since. And, yeah, so I live, like, outside of the DFW metroplex with my husband Marshall, and we have a chocolate lab. Her name is Shelby, so you shouldn't hear her, but if you do, if she makes some groans, that's who that is. Yeah, I do photo and video, and I, yeah, just have been really passionate about moms and motherhood and birth for really as long as I can remember.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, I love it.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's amazing. Okay, I have so many questions. I'm just going to dive on in. Do you specialize only in birth now or do you do, like, newborn like. Like kind of the adjacent of birth type of things, like newborn family, maternity, like, things like that?

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah, I do some of them. So I have been a photographer for six years, and I've been specializing in birth for four of those. And I do some, like, in home lifestyle newborn and then I do maternity. Typically, I don't really advertise those. And then I also really only do them for my birth clients.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, makes sense.

[Samantha Tolleson]

So that's some. Sometimes they'll add that to their birth photography, but birth just really keeps me busy and it requires that I be on call 247 for sure. And so having that added Level of stress of having to constantly reschedule portrait sessions because I'm booking those constantly is just not really a level of stress that I feel like adding to my life.

[Lindsay Roman]

Totally.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, so.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay, that's. So you're, you're, you are like, I would almost. Is what it sounds like. 90% like specialized in birth. It's not like you're dabbling in like a lot of things, if that makes sense. Yeah, for sure.

[Samantha Tolleson]

And then again from there, if it's not specifically birth, then it's maternity or lifestyle newborn or like nursing sessions and then the occasional like fall Christmas minis. But again, those are really only for current clients.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, totally makes sense. Well, so then how did you decide to niche down into like specifically births? Like what about. Obviously you said that it started with a birth story and you liked. Is that what it's called, a birth story?

[Samantha Tolleson]

A baby story.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, a baby story. But, but I guess when you started your photography business, was it like always from the beginning? Like, yeah, no, I want to do birth. Or was it like, I'm kind of trying out all the niches and I'm. Then I like, because I love birth, I want to try this out. And then you fell in love with it.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah. So I definitely started out doing what I would consider probably the same thing every photographer does. And I did everything, I think, I mean, my first two sessions were. One was a maternity session and one was a pregnancy announcement. So I mean, it was pretty set from the get go. But I did do everything. I've done weddings, I've done, I've sampled this, the studio, newborn life. I've done the events and the graduations and the seniors. I've done a little bit of everything. Especially because whenever I first started doing photography, I had another job at the time I was working full time somewhere else and so being on call for births wasn't feasible at that time. And so I was making money and just becoming a photographer and practicing that first and then was able to make that switch and go full time in just birth. And it's been the best thing ever.

[Evie McLeod]

I love it did in getting into birth, was it like a friend asked you to photograph their birth or was it a client just reaching out to you and then you're just like, I'm hooked. This is it, I'm moving forward with this.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah. No, so it was actually the other way around. I met, I met a friend now we're friends now. Gosh, her baby is her. The baby that I photographed is five now. I think four. Four Maybe four. I don't know. It's been a while. But yeah. So we met through a pregnancy ministry actually called Embrace Grace. And she was expecting and I was like, hey, like, could I photograph your birth? Like, I'll do it for free as long as I'm not at work. Can I come and just, like, photograph it for you? And she was like, yeah, sure, that's totally fine. And so I was there with her all night long. And then right as she was having the baby, I had to leave and go to work. And so. That was terrible. No, yeah. But it was still a really great experience. I still have great photos from that. I mean, it was my very first one. It was only one of two that year because it was 2020. So things didn't go quite as well as I had hoped that year. But that's okay. But, yeah, I love that. Yeah, she's super sweet. It's been really nice.

[Evie McLeod]

Okay. I love this. There are so many logistical questions that Lindsay and I have of how this works and communicating with clients and being on call and all sorts of different things. But I am just a curious Nancy that's not the curious Kathy. And I just want to know because I feel like in the photography space there is this belief that the only way to make good money is weddings. Is weddings. And obviously you are so passionate about birth photography and you have found, like, your niche and you love it and it just, I can tell, just lights you up and is just such a beautiful, like, type of photography. So I would love to almost just if anyone else is currently sitting there being like, okay, it's great if you love it, but, like, am I going to be the starving artist who's on call 24 7? Like, what is it a lucrative or profitable stream of photography? Maybe even if you're willing to get personal, like, how much do you currently charge for, like, a birth, let's say photo or, I don't know, do you do photo and video at the same time?

[Samantha Tolleson]

I do.

[Evie McLeod]

Okay. Okay, Queen, I bow before your. Your skills. Like, how much do you charge? Maybe for just photo.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like a range?

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, like a range. Just so, like, people can kind of have this in the back of their heads as we start going into more logistics of birth photography.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah, for sure. So I would say honestly that it's pretty similar and right on par with weddings because you are on call for so long and so much goes into it on the back end, you do have to charge something that's sustainable.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

And so for me personally, which is the only really only the only thing I can speak to, I charge 1570. That includes sales tax and stuff. Something I think I learned from you, Evie. If I remember correctly, you mathematically correct or figure out the sales tax and just include that in the price. So it's not a surprise or a shock or an add on when someone books. So yeah, so I do photo or video. So if you want one or the other, it's 1570 and then both is 2275. And so I personally like to take three is my ideal number per month. Three clients.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay.

[Samantha Tolleson]

So I mean, I would say that's pretty on par with, you know, taking three weddings.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Sometimes it's a little more, sometimes it's a little less. Like the number of clients, it just depends on the month. And again, when I say per month, I'm taking due dates for that month. That also doesn't necessarily mean those mamas are gonna have their babies in those months.

[Evie McLeod]

Right.

[Samantha Tolleson]

So you take as a birth photographer, you take all of that with a grain of salt.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, but.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah, so I mean, I personally don't hit six figures, but I do know photographers who do. There's actually one here in the DFW where I live. There's a few of them actually who do hit those kind of numbers. Yeah, very regularly. I feel like they have associates and things and so they're able to take twice as many clients per month as I am. So it really just depends on. Again, just like any other photography niche, it depends on what your business model looks like and.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

What your goals are.

[Lindsay Roman]

I feel like. Yeah, that makes perfect sense because just like with wedding, like a wedding, I feel like the reason it's charged high is like it's a once in a, in a lifetime like type of event.

[Evie McLeod]

Which is also the amount of hours that you're spending there.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes, but like birth is if not more hours that you're on call and there potentially.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And also it's equally a once in a lifetime event. Like it's not like a, like a session, which, which obviously you could still be like a family photographer and make good money too. But it's just like, I would think it would be comparable like you just said to weddings just for that reason, because you can. I just. Okay. I want to just get into it because not that we're not already into it, but like, I think the biggest thing that makes birth photography different than any other type of photography is the not knowing when the event is situation and therefore being on call. How do you deal with that? I know you said you take three due dates per month, but maybe you haven't dealt with this yet. My immediate thought is, like, what if I have two? Or maybe you just don't. Do you just, like, not take a mom that has a due date in the same week? Or would you take. So let's. Okay, we're in August. Would you take a bride that her not a bride. Can you tell I'm a wedding photographer. Would you take a client that has a due date of, like, today's August 8th. Say it was August 8th. And then if you got another inquiry for a. I almost said bright again. For a mom, mother, pregnant woman, whatever, who had, like, a due date of August, what would that. Like, like 15th? Like, would you take them that close together? That would just petrify me. I want to know. I want to know all the things.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah, for sure. So again with. As a birth photographer, which is so wild because I normally typically have a very type A, structured rules, know what to expect, have a plan type person. And that's what I think is so cool about what I do and just so cool about God. Because this is my calling and this is what I'm supposed to do. This is what I meant to do. This is where my whole heart and soul are, but everything about it forces me to go outside of what I'm comfortable with and the way that I am. So I hate to drive. Hate it. Get so much anxiety. Have to drive all over the Dallas Metroplex.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

All the time.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

And then again, I like to know what to expect. I like to be able to plan things, and I like for there to be a structure and there is just nothing structured about my entire life. Yeah. But. Yeah, so it's due dates. I. I don't pay any attention to how far or how close they are. I take due dates on the same day. I take due dates two days apart. I take due dates two weeks apart. And most of the time, the ones who are gonna risk overlapping are the ones that are closer to two weeks or so apart. I don't know why that is. It's just a thing. But the possibility of two moms who are due on the same day having their baby on the same day is super rare.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. No, not the same.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Even if they do, it's not gonna be the day they were due. Yeah, it's not. It's. I think. I think the stat is like 1 in 80 babies are born the day they're due. So, I mean, it's like, not super common.

[Lindsay Roman]

Your reasoning for Only taking three per month, that's just like a personal. Like, that's how much I want to work situation. It's not like trying to avoid overlap.

[Samantha Tolleson]

No. It's just the more you take, the more you. The more you increase your risk of overlap.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right, right.

[Samantha Tolleson]

So, like, so, for example, for August, let's do. Let's talk about August. So I had three clients for August fully booked this month. Their due dates are slash. Were the 13th, 15th, and 24th.

[Lindsay Roman]

So wait, were you say were? As in one of them has already been.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Okay, so baby who was due August 24, was born July 28? I think so. She was my very last August due date, when I fully expected to be born in September, but was actually born at 36 weeks in one day in July.

[Evie McLeod]

Wow.

[Samantha Tolleson]

And then the two who are due, the 13th and 15th, you know, are kind of all over the place. Like, they're just chilling, doing their thing. And then I have one early September, who is meeting with a specialist next week and probably facing an induction next week, and she's not even due until September.

[Lindsay Roman]

Wow.

[Samantha Tolleson]

So, yeah, I mean, like I said, you really have to, like, let go of that control and the fear of due dates, because they just don't mean anything. The only thing they do mean, technically, is that if you're due on a particular day, at least in the state of Texas, you have to be in active labor two weeks after that date. And if not, you have to seek medical intervention.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay.

[Samantha Tolleson]

So really, all it does is put a cap on when I'll be off call for you.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

If you're due August 8th today, then that means that two weeks from now, for sure. Like, two weeks from today, I for sure won't be on call for you anymore. You'll either be in labor or your baby will have already been born. That's really all it means.

[Evie McLeod]

Dang. This is. So you're. You literally live life.

[Lindsay Roman]

How do you call vacation? Or would you. Okay.

[Samantha Tolleson]

She goes.

[Lindsay Roman]

I don't.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, but in future, though, if you really wanted to.

[Lindsay Roman]

A month off.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

You would just not book. But for a month or two.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay, but what happens when that. Like the. August. You said August 21st was due on July 26th.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Opposite. But yeah. Oh, she was due the end of August. She had her baby at the end of July.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's what I mean. Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

So I'm just, like, playing. Okay, so like, say I wanted to take July off. If you had taken July off, like, pretend this was a year ago and you were planning it out.

[Evie McLeod]

And also Pretend you're taking an entire month off.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, okay, sure.

[Samantha Tolleson]

What?

[Lindsay Roman]

But still, I'm just wondering how maybe I just am, like, in my, like, lazy era, where I'm like, I just want to know about the vacation time.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah. So a couple things. One, my contract states that I go on call at 37 weeks. So if you have your baby before 37 weeks, I'm not legally obligated to attend your birth.

[Lindsay Roman]

But you did for this one.

[Samantha Tolleson]

But I did. I do. If I. I mean, if at all possible, I'm still going to be there again, y'all. I love my job. Like, I love it. So, I mean, I'll attend your birth just for funsies. Like, I'm not gonna miss it if I. If I can at all avoid it. Yeah. But on top of that. So one of the most frequent questions I get are these questions like, what if you're. Like, what if I go early? What if I go late? What if somebody else is in labor? What if you're sick?

[Evie McLeod]

What if this?

[Samantha Tolleson]

What if that.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

You can't do birth photography without backups.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

You have to have backups. And I'm super fortunate, personally, to live in the Dallas Fort Worth area where birth is booming. I mean, we've got the most thriving and flourishing birth community that exists in probably all of the world.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh.

[Samantha Tolleson]

And so I could sit here and list 10 or 15 birth photographers that I could call at a moment's notice and be like, hey, I need your help. I need you to go here or here or, you know, who's available who can help.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

And we all back up for each other all the time. So then. So they would attend the birth for me, and then they would give me all of the raw files and things, and then I would continue on post production with that birth the same way I would any other way.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah. Definitely not an ideal situation and not one I want to do, but it is one that I can do and will do if I have to.

[Evie McLeod]

I love it.

[Lindsay Roman]

That was great. You answered the question that I had in my mind of, like, okay, associates or, like, I guess, backups or. So, I guess, would you ever in the future? Because I don't think you said you do right now, but would you ever want a team of associates?

[Samantha Tolleson]

I don't know about a team per se. My goal currently would just be to really connect with one other photographer. Again, that type a controlling personality needs, like, one person who's, like, loyal to me and vice versa. And I can always count on. So I do want that like, that would be great. I don't know about leading a team per se, but, I mean, hey, if it's part of the plan in the long run, I'm open to it. And yeah, thanks to all of the education I get from amazing people like you guys, I can do it.

[Evie McLeod]

I love it.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's amazing.

[Evie McLeod]

Okay, I have a logistical question just from. I mean, literally the only births that I have ever photographed were my sisters. But it is. It is intimate and it is a very.

[Lindsay Roman]

You're up in the veg.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, that. But it's also just such a sacred space in some ways. Well, not in some ways. It is more. Far more intimate than even like a wedding day or anything close that. That usually you think of, like, oh, I really have to have this connection with my couple and whatever. It's like, no, no, no. Like, you are literally there in one of the most vulnerable, sacred and emotional. Right. Days of their intention that you would.

[Lindsay Roman]

Invite to your wedding, that you would not invite to your birth.

[Samantha Tolleson]

So I was like, there's.

[Lindsay Roman]

There's a level of. If we're thinking about circles of safety and vulnerability, it's like, it's real small. Yes.

[Evie McLeod]

So I guess I would just love to hear your thoughts on that from the photographer's perspective. Like, are there things that you do to help your. Your couple be at ease, to get to know you, connect with you? Do you have calls? Do you not. Is it not a question if they're hiring somebody? They're already like, I guess just, what are your thoughts? I'll shut up. What are your thoughts?

[Samantha Tolleson]

So there's. There's a few things. Ultimately, first and foremost, they want a birth photographer.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

And that, I mean, I feel like that's. It's so niche, especially even compared to weddings. I mean, everybody hires a wedding photographer. Even if it's Uncle Bob. Everybody wants photos of their wedding.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

However, you know, it takes. It takes a special mom or a special couple to want their birth documented. And so they've. There's. This is something they're pretty serious about as it is, and so they want me there ultimately, which is the most important part. But to answer your question specifically about, like, what I do to make them feel comfortable, there's a few things. One, yes. I always jump on a call with them before they book as long as they want to. Again, this is all, like, what they want. So they're. The level of connection that they want. I want to be best friends with everybody, all of them.

[Evie McLeod]

Like, let's.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Let's hang out let's be besties, Like, I love you forever. Some of them are like, yes, let's do it. And other ones are like, nah, bro, just come photograph my birth and leave me alone. So, but yeah, so I always jump on a call, then that's the first thing because I message them and I'm like, hey, like, let's get on a call. I will give you the huge spiel of like how it all works and what to expect. You can ask all the questions, make sure that you don't hate the sound of my voice, and then we'll go from there. And so then they book and fill out all the things and then about 34 weeks or so I send them a super in depth questionnaire asking them all sorts of questions. Everything from who's catching your baby? To whose reaction are you most excited to see to in case of emergencies? Do you want me to continue documenting or not? And then everything in between. And then after that, I like to try and do at least one in person meeting with them as their on call window approaches. Just because again, the least we can do is meet in person and share a coffee or something. Before eyewitness, you go through the most transformative and epic moment of your life.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

And so what that looks like, for example, with a home birth is most likely going to be a home visit. I like to go and see their house, see where they live, troubleshoot any logistical issues like security gates or codes or anything like that. Meet their family. Because again, if they're having a home birth, they're more likely to have more family around, especially older children. And so it's nice to be able to meet them in their home environment. And then they usually will show me where they're going to labor and where they envision birthing. And it's just a nice like intimate time to connect. And that's what they're craving already with wanting a home birth. But then like, yeah, if they're, if they're doing a birth center or a hospital birth, then we'll just meet for coffee or lunch or something halfway and get to know each other there. That's usually when I get to meet their partner. Most of the time they'll bring, they'll bring him and then. Yeah, I mean, other than that too. Like, I just am all over Instagram all the time. Almost all of my clients either find me through Instagram or follow me almost immediately after we connect. And so I feel like we both get to know each other a lot just in following each other on Instagram.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

So, yeah, I get a lot of feedback about that. And then so many of my clients follow me and are super supportive and we connect all the time through Instagram, which is really fun.

[Lindsay Roman]

I feel like personal branding is almost even more important. It's always important, but like, it's so important. I feel like for birth photography because it's like the trust that you want to build with somebody of like to.

[Evie McLeod]

Invite them into that space. Oh, you have to feel comfortable or just not give a dang one of the two.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah. Which I mean, by the time you're pushing out a baby, nobody cares anyway.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Yeah. Right.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Nobody cares anymore at that point.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

I have a logistical question on what you're on call for the birth obviously to whenever it happens. But like when labor starts, at what point in time do you say that you'll show up? Is it like from the very beginning until like literally babies like birthed and then maybe like an hour later or like what's, what's that window look like?

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah. So from a wider standpoint, I'm on call from the time they're 37 weeks until baby is born, usually up to about 42 weeks. So that's potentially a five week period for every client. And then my goal is to get to them as close to active labor as possible. So typically if they're getting, if they're getting cervical checks that'll be somewhere between 6 and 7 centimeters. If not, then it's just based on contraction pattern and intensity and just under. I mean, you have to understand birth.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Really well to be able to be a birth worker. And then you just kind of have. I mean, every time is a guessing game, everyone. I'm like, yeah, now do I go now? Not yet. Do I go now? I think I should go now. And so, I mean, with every. And that, that's the. Another hard part about what we do is no matter how long you do it, every single birth is different.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

The timing is different and there's no one way of doing it. I mean, a mom can go from a 4 to a 10 in 45 minutes or 45 hours.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

It doesn't matter. So you really just have to trust your gut. You have to listen to your client and have a really good understanding of how physiological birth works.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

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[Evie McLeod]

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[Lindsay Roman]

Instead, we promise Honeybook will revolutionize your business the way it has ours. In addition to a free seven day trial, we have an exclusive offer for our podcast listeners. 35% off the first two years. All you have to do is go to share.honeybook.comheart and claim your discount. That's share.honeybook.com heart or you can check out the link in our show notes. So wait, do you say like hey, whenever you call your midwife? I guess if it's a home birth or a birth, like I'm thinking, I guess even. Or whenever you go to the hospital, is that like the marker of when to call you? Or I guess what do you tell potential clients on like what, like when you would start recording or. Sorry, recording or photographing.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah. So typically it's gonna. Yeah, it's gonna be. If they're doing a birth center then with most of them I'm able to say call me when you're heading to the birth center because they're in contact with their midwife who wants them to labor at home as long as possible, too, just because changing locations and going outside of your comfort zone and all of that does can potentially slow down your labor. And again, these midwives are on call for other moms, too. And so they want you to labor at home as long as possible, and then they also want you to get to the birth center around active labor. They don't want you to be at the birth center for 12, 20 hours, you know, so they. They're in constant contact with them, gauging, you know, the. Again, the intensity and the timing of their contractions and the things that they're feeling. So if they're doing a birth center, then, yeah, I tell them, like, call me when you're leaving for the birth center, and I will also leave for the birth center, and we'll meet there. If they're doing a home birth, then again, it goes back to just listening to them and them again, if they're doing a home birth, they are really in touch with their own bodies, and they know what. They're kind of know what to expect. And they have a midwife team there. And so it. They just will say, hey, this is what we're looking at. This is the pattern. This is the timing. This is how I'm feeling. I think we're ready.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

And then I go. And then sometimes they have a baby an hour later, and sometimes they have a baby 12 hours later. It just. It just depends.

[Lindsay Roman]

Do you ever, like, go back home?

[Samantha Tolleson]

Not usually. I mean, I can. Again, it just depends on how close they are to me. And again, going back to what I said before about not liking to drive. And again, I have super fortunate in that I don't have babies of my own yet, and so I don't have to worry about childcare or missing my babies or getting home or anything like that. I mean, yeah, sure, my husband's home, you know, but he'll live.

[Evie McLeod]

He's an adult.

[Samantha Tolleson]

He's fine. He can feed himself. He knows. He knows how to. How to use the microwave. So typically for me, personally, once I arrive to a birth, I'm there. Now, I might go to another room. I might go to the waiting room, I might go to the lobby. Like, I won't be in their face the entire time just because, again, it's a long time, and they don't need that entire time documented. But I'm also doing other things like getting B roll and capturing details and, you know, doing other things that don't necessarily involve them.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

So, yeah, so I Mean, I've been at a birth for 16 plus hours and then I've been to ones where the baby was born 12 minutes after I got there, so.

[Lindsay Roman]

Wow. Have you ever missed a birth?

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yes. Oh, how do you.

[Lindsay Roman]

What does I mean? Because obviously I'm thinking of like the speedster. Like if somebody's like, like if it.

[Evie McLeod]

Is instantaneous, they're like, hey, it should be in the next hour and they give birth 10 minutes later.

[Lindsay Roman]

How does that, how does that look like? Do you have to give a refund or like. I'm just literally. I'm sorry, I'm not even letting you ask any questions. I'm just like, I have so many.

[Samantha Tolleson]

I love this though. I love that you guys have so many questions. I'm so excited to bring you guys into my world.

[Lindsay Roman]

I love it.

[Samantha Tolleson]

It's a wild one.

[Evie McLeod]

I know, it's a fun one.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Oh, I bet.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. But back to like, if you miss a birth, how does that happen? I'm just thinking of any, any of our listeners want to be a birth photographer.

[Evie McLeod]

Like that's a, that' a logistical like facility.

[Lindsay Roman]

You would, I would, that would be like an FAQ on my website or like in my pricing guide or in my contract. So I would be like. But I don't know the answer to it.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I mean they're so, they're called precipitous labors. They happen in two hours or less and they're intense and I've missed one or two. And then so basically what I do, especially if I'm like already on my way there, then I get there and I just capture as much as I possibly can. Details, newborn exams. So again, like that's one thing too to consider is if you've never witnessed an out of hospital birth. They're way different. Yeah. There's so much more that goes into a birth that happens outside of the hospital that takes three to four hours after the baby's born. So I definitely get there and still capture all of those things. And then from there my first preference is going to be to schedule like some other type of session to compensate. Whether that's a fresh 48, a lifestyle newborn session or you know, a family session in six months when baby's a little bigger, like when I'm doing my normal fall minis anyway. So then they kind of get that choice, like if they'd rather just fill in with other things and then if not, they are welcome to request a refund. And then again based on all of the details and all of the circumstances. If I flat out missed your birth, and it's entirely my fault because I just fell off the face of the planet that day, then sure, you're going to get a refund, but if at all possible, no, because again, I was on call for you all this time. I still came, I still made every effort, and I offered you all of these other things to fill in. And so refunds are not super common, but I mean, it is possible.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Evie McLeod]

Okay, my turn for logistical questions.

[Samantha Tolleson]

It's like, all your questions are logistical. You all start out with. I have a logistical question.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, they are all literally. It's so nitpicky. Okay, so this is any natural light photographer's struggle with birth photography.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Oh, yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

I see where you're going with this.

[Evie McLeod]

And I would just love.

[Lindsay Roman]

Let's talk about the hospital tungsten light. That's.

[Evie McLeod]

Or it's just births happen at night and oftentimes the light is super dim. Right.

[Lindsay Roman]

So, like, wait, I have questions. Do you use flashes?

[Evie McLeod]

Okay, my turn.

[Samantha Tolleson]

You guys are cracking me up.

[Evie McLeod]

Okay. Okay.

[Lindsay Roman]

Can you imagine a flat. Sorry. Okay, so that's, like, peaceful.

[Evie McLeod]

And it's like, logistically lighting. Because I'm trying to think if both two of my sister's births have been at night or if I'm trying to remember all of mine have.

[Lindsay Roman]

I wish I could have a daytime baby. That would be glorious.

[Evie McLeod]

I know on both of them, I had to crank ISO for multiple parts of, like, labor. And obviously then it was not my favorite in, like, editing. And I would, like. I was trying to, like, pull things down and, like, smooth it out just a touch. But, sensei, please give your, like, what is your. Do you use flash? I would assume probably not in most scenarios. But I also have seen birth photos where I'm like, that person 100% used to flash because of. How else would there be lit? It is so well lit, but the room is so, so moody. Like, there is no. That's a flash. But I'm like, I can't.

[Samantha Tolleson]

I.

[Evie McLeod]

Okay, I'll just stop. Questions. Light. How do you go about that? Do you crank ISO? Do you use a flash? Do you care at this point because you've shot so many, or you just, like, it is what it is? It's a little grainy.

[Lindsay Roman]

The mom.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Okay, so we'll let Samantha.

[Samantha Tolleson]

You guys could just do a whole episode on asking each other questions and trying to figure this out. Like, you.

[Lindsay Roman]

Better, though, because you're the expert and you get to then, like, mediate you can be like, girls, ladies, ladies, timeout.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Hold please. So, yeah, let's jump into it because I feel like again, it's a lot like other niches where things are like, there are trends and there are techniques and they're editing, editing styles and shooting styles that are different for everybody. And it just depends on what you like. Motion blur is a big one that's super popular right now.

[Evie McLeod]

Some photographers love photography or just photography in general.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Just photography in general.

[Evie McLeod]

Okay. I was like, I'm imagining like a literal delivery shot and it's like a motion blur.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, the vagina is in focus in the center of the motion blur.

[Evie McLeod]

Okay.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Okay.

[Evie McLeod]

We're getting so off track. Continue, Samantha.

[Samantha Tolleson]

So in the birth world.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Your flash versus non flash photographers are super controversial. The ones who love it, love it, and the ones who don't, don't. And they all have their reasons. So I currently am a flash photographer. When it comes to birth. I do use a flash if you're birthing at night or in a dark room. So for starters, one, yes. It's also too Lindsay. Like you said, it does come down to the mom and her preference.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right.

[Samantha Tolleson]

So it's one of the questions in that really long birth vision questionnaire I mentioned before and I put in there, if flash is necessary for the best quality photo, is that okay? And they say yes or no?

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Every.

[Lindsay Roman]

You let them though. If they. Their answer would be no.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yes, of course. Yeah. I mean, it's their birth. I mean, they can do it. They can do what they want.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, I know, but you said you were a flash photo. Okay, nevermind.

[Samantha Tolleson]

So when you, when you go and look at my Instagram page or my website and my portfolio, I can tell by looking at them that I'm a flash photographer.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, see, we could tell, but could people that aren't photographers tell?

[Samantha Tolleson]

Are they aware? I don't know. You know what I'm saying? They probably depends on how. It depends on how much they follow other birth photographers and how much they know about that. Because like, you can look at my photos and you can look at a photo of the photos of a photographer who doesn't use flash and you can drastically tell the difference.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. And so they probably struggle with some grain.

[Samantha Tolleson]

They do. And most of them embrace the grain and they love it. And that's their motto. And it adds tons of characters.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh my gosh, these are gorgeous.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Go ahead and follow me while you're literally, literally everybody.

[Lindsay Roman]

Samantha Tolles in birth. Yeah, just go. Yeah, you shout that out, girl. Okay.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Hit that button while you're both there. No shame in my game. I love it. Pitch yourself pretty.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. Keep to. Keep talking about your. Your flow.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah. So yeah, I use. I use flash most of the time, especially like for nighttime births. I. But also, like, I just listen to the mood and I give myself the freedom to do both. So especially now, like with some galleries, like, there are some moments that just. I have to turn the flash off for that moment because the lighting is just right. Like, I don't know if you can see. I don't know how far back you have to scroll. There's a ton of world breastfeeding week stuff all over my feed right now. So you gotta scroll past like the last week worth of crazy. But there's a photo of a placenta and the midwife is holding it up and you can see the light shining through it and it's just the most epic moment. And so real quickly I had to shut off my flash and capture that moment because it was just so pretty. Like I just was so enamored by the way the light was shining through the placenta. And so I really just. It really just depends on the vibe. It depends on the moment, it depends on the mood. I mean, that's what's again so cool about birth is that again, every single one is different, everyone is unique. And the goal is not necessarily the perfect photo, but to capture the moment and to tell the story. I mean, it's so much more about storytelling than really probably any other niche that I can think of. Yeah. Because even with a couple session or a family session or a wedding, like telling a million stories all in one, maybe, but with birth, like, it's just that one story. It's the story of the birth and it's so cool.

[Lindsay Roman]

I'm just looking at your. I'm just gawking.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah, please do.

[Lindsay Roman]

Can I show.

[Evie McLeod]

Can I show this to the people? I don't know.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. So pretty.

[Evie McLeod]

It's fine. This is so beautiful.

[Samantha Tolleson]

See, that's a non flash moment because.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right, because it didn't need it.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Like the way the water was going down the wall and stuff. Like it was just.

[Lindsay Roman]

If you would have put flash on this, I feel like it would have been just like raindrops on a. On like a.

[Evie McLeod]

It would have been a lot harsher too.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah, but like this flash a ton during that birth. In other moments. Yeah, and same with the one Evie was just looking at.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah. Like that's a non flash moment. So again, what's cool about birth, especially in labor is that they're not moving very fast.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. I mean, they're not planning.

[Samantha Tolleson]

They're not. Yeah. They're not moving around. There's not a whole lot happening. There's not like, you know, kids jumping off of things and things happen. It's just a very slow, steady moment. And so, I mean, they're going to be in one position most of the time for at least a few contractions. And so that gives me the freedom to one, do both photo and video and capture that same moment basically with both. Because again, they're not, they're not jumping up and down or moving around.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

But then also it gives me the opportunity and the freedom to be able to use flash and non flash depending. And it also depends on the speed of the labor. Again, if I get there and she's rocking and rolling and we're already making pushing noises, I'm not playing around with, you know, details and creativity. Right. But if I've been there for a few hours and we've got time, then I can be creative and try new things. I've actually tried motion blur a little bit. Or at least like, I wasn't criticizing.

[Evie McLeod]

Motion blur in birth. It was just the shot of like I think crowning that I was envisioning with a motion blur. And that just seemed funny.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah, for sure. Which again, also possible, like doable though, especially with a first time mom who crowns for a long time. Because pushing takes a long time, especially if never done it before.

[Evie McLeod]

I love it.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's amazing.

[Evie McLeod]

Okay, logistically, can you even do a flash in all hospitals or do some hospitals have like limitations on. Because I know some hospitals have limitations on photography in general, Right?

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yes, I'm sure they probably do. I tell myself they don't because I don't believe them. And I'm going to try and keep this as short and nice as possible. So as far as hospitals go. Yeah. I mean, ultimately I'm gonna, I'm gonna do the best I can to do whatever they ask me and whatever they tell me. So if they ask. And again, I don't have to use a flash as much in a hospital because there are a lot more lights.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, that's true.

[Samantha Tolleson]

The medical staff is using tons of lights. They've got spotlights, there are lights everywhere, which is part of the problem. But yeah, so I mean, I try to follow their rules and do what they ask as much as possible. And then. But. But ultimately the client hired me to photograph their birth and that's my job and that's what they're for, and they're the person I answer to, and they're the person I work for, and vice versa.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

So I personally, like, if I get any pushback on not being in the room or not being in the. Or not being able to do photography, my first question, because they'll say like, oh, I'm sorry, you can't. You can't take photos. It's against our policy.

[Lindsay Roman]

So I ask, can you show me the policy?

[Samantha Tolleson]

I've never heard that before. Could you please print out that page, that policy form for me? I'd love to have that on file, and I'd love to be able to share that with the hundred other birth photographers who work in this metroplex. So if you go ahead and print that out, that'd be great. And then all of a sudden, they get real quiet. Yeah, nothing. And they're like, you know, we asked so and so, and they said it was fine. They're going to let you. They're going to go ahead and let you in the.

[Evie McLeod]

Or.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Or. Yeah, sure, you can take photos. Just try to stay right here and not move.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, you're like, okay.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Their policy quickly changes when you ask for it in print.

[Evie McLeod]

That's so funny.

[Lindsay Roman]

I'm going to use that for literally every. Not even just photography. Be like, oh, it's required to do the hep B. Yeah, I would love the. I would love that on print.

[Evie McLeod]

Print policy, where I cannot.

[Lindsay Roman]

Where I cannot legally do that. Yeah. Thank you. Oh, no, I owe it. Yeah, I'm going to have to have that. I mean, those usually actually are things that you have to, like, basically sign before birth that say, like, you're endangering your baby. And I'm like, okay, thanks, Spike. Sign.

[Samantha Tolleson]

And that's like, so many moms don't know that, too. I mean, you can say no to anything and everything.

[Lindsay Roman]

I feel like I'm getting your vibe based on the conversation. But do you advertise yourself, like, one way or the other of, like, I accept all births or like, I'm like a home birth photographer or a. Like, does that make sense? Or have you photographed it all and you don't care where it happens? Kind of like, you know, wedding photographers are like, barn or, like, you know, I don't know, historical mansion, as you guys know.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Because, again, y'all are the pros. You attract what you advertise.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

So I don't explicitly say that I only photograph home births or that I don't photograph hospitals, but I do tend to book mostly home Births followed by birth centers and then hospitals after that. Because that's what I advertise the most.

[Lindsay Roman]

That makes sense.

[Evie McLeod]

I was going to say on your page, I feel like at a glance, I don't know if I saw a single. And there probably was in there. I just maybe didn't know.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, it also might be close up. I don't know if you can tell if you're at a hospital.

[Evie McLeod]

Technically, sometimes you can, but there were a lot of, like, birthing, like water births and, like, home showers. You could tell. So it would make sense. If I looked at that, I'd be like, okay, great. You know, she's a home birth photographer. Just in my mind.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. But wait, I have a question. Have you ever done a C section birth? And do they.

[Evie McLeod]

She said yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, wait, she said, yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

She's been in, like, the. Or.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, I literally just blanked out for that part then, I guess. Yeah, I guess.

[Samantha Tolleson]

So that mom I was just telling you about, who had her baby at 36 weeks, had a breech baby and she had a C section. And so not too far down on my page, you can actually see a reel where I did catch us going back. Come photograph a C section with me. And so the COVID photo is going to be a selfie in a reflective mirror up on the ceiling in a.

[Lindsay Roman]

Hospital on a ceiling.

[Evie McLeod]

It shouldn't be too far back.

[Samantha Tolleson]

It's just right past all of the breastfeeding stuff.

[Lindsay Roman]

It's a selfie of you?

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah, it's a selfie of me in one of those big bubble mirror things. So it's a come photograph a C section with me. Real. And. Yeah, I mean, there's not any footage from inside the C section in it, but it's pretty cool. You can see me getting on, like, all of my safety gear.

[Evie McLeod]

I love it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, all of the.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Oh, that's so funny things.

[Lindsay Roman]

But, like, in that scenario, the doctor, like, they let you in there as long as you're, like, clean or whatever.

[Evie McLeod]

And out of the way.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah. So again, so the first level of clearance is going to be the doctor, and then from there, the clearance is usually with the anesthesiologist. They usually have final say on everything when it comes to a C section, because in most operating rooms, I'm all up in their space, and so they have to determine whether or not they're willing to share their space with me. And so if the doctor's fine with it and the anesthesiologist is fine with it, then it's usually good.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

But sometimes it can be hard to go from client to nurse, to doctor to anesthesiologist.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

To hospital admin. Like whoever we have to go, whoever we have to go through to get there. And like I tell my clients, like, they are their best advocates. And so if given the opportunity and given the time and the prep, if they want to fight for me to be there, they can and they will and it works.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

If they aren't comfortable with pushing back that much, if they, if it's something that they're kind of give or take on and they don't want to push for it, then it's going to be harder to do it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, it's there.

[Samantha Tolleson]

It comes down to them. At the end of the day, they're their best advocate.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

So good.

[Evie McLeod]

And it's ultimately all for them and about them. So, yeah, everyone's trying to serve them one way or another. So it's like, exactly how do you want to navigate this? I love it.

[Lindsay Roman]

For anybody that's listening to this episode that is really intrigued by birth photography. And maybe they're not a photographer at all, or maybe they're a photographer and they've just done other things and they've really been in intrigued by it and they like, hey, I kind of want to start doing birth photography. What would be like the number one piece of advice you would tell somebody that wants to get into it?

[Samantha Tolleson]

So my first thing is going to be to make sure you are educated on birth, whether that is taking a doula certification course first or just taking a regular birth prep course like a mom would when she's pregnant, taking a class to really know and understand how birth works. That's going to be the first thing you need to know. And then second to that, just soaking up as much education as possible. I mean, Facebook groups are a wealth of information and you can learn so much just scrolling through there and searching in the search bar, like a question you have. And then on top of that, Google knows everything. And then practically, I recommend doing what I did, where you find a friend or two first that just happens to be pregnant and ask them if you can photograph their births, because then neither of you really have any skin in the game. And so you're really just there to experience the birth and take photos of it, versus, like, dealing with all of the extras that go into actually being hired by a client and all of the money and the contracts and the photo releases and all of the things that go with that.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's so good. Because I'm thinking of, like, if we're giving advice to a photographer that's wanting to get into photography, like, the first thing I say is, like, go get portfolio for free. And it's like, oh, if you can't find, like, someone to hire you, then, like, set up free sessions. And it's like, okay, well, what would be the alternative for setting up free sessions?

[Evie McLeod]

Free birth.

[Lindsay Roman]

And I love what you said. It's like, hey, find friends that. Or pregnant and ask them if you can photograph it. But I could almost see somebody that's a negative. Not even a negative, Nancy. Just someone that's like, okay, well, that's. I love that idea, but I don't have any friends that are pregnant. My immediate thought is, like, go into those Facebook groups that you just say said, like, local. Like, pregnancy Facebook or mom Facebook groups. And it's like, hey, is anybody. I think I've actually been in, like, a St. Augustine Facebook group. Or, like, it's like, Crunchy Moms. I'm pretty sure that's the one it's in. And I've seen, like, posts of somebody being like, hey, I'm getting into birth photography. Would anybody be willing to let me, like, come photograph your birth? And it's like, especially if you're, like, for free. It's like, oh, okay, Yeah, I love that.

[Evie McLeod]

Get started and be scrappy.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right? Be scrappy.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah, exactly.

[Evie McLeod]

I love it. I love it so much. Okay. Samantha, you are a wealth of information, and I love this so much. And your passion for what you do, it just completely exudes out of you. And it is so precious and wonderful to be a part of and to experience. And your clients are very blessed and lucky to have you. Thank you. You. You're a podcast listener, so you know the last few questions that we ask every single guest of ours, so you are probably prepared. But what is a favorite book that you have read recently?

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah, recently I'd have to say 10 words to live by by Jen Wilkin. It's just like a modern, practical take on the Ten Commandments and how to live that out in your life practically. And it was. It was really good. I really liked it.

[Evie McLeod]

That was awesome. I'll add that to my list.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yep, same.

[Evie McLeod]

Okay, and then next question is, what is one of the biggest lessons that you have learned in business?

[Samantha Tolleson]

This one is so good and so, like, so true right now. And something I've actually, like, really experienced the fruit of. And that's just that your ideal client makes everything else worth it. You just have to keep Pushing through until you meet them, until you find them, or until they find you. And when you do, I mean, it's just amazing the way that they love you and value you and support you and show up for you time and time again, even well after they've had their babies. It just, like said, makes the whole. Makes all the rest of it worth it, because it's just so sweet to connect with the people that are meant for you.

[Evie McLeod]

Oh, I love that. That's so good.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's so good.

[Samantha Tolleson]

And it's really hard in the beginning.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Beginning is always hard.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah. When you're like. When you're like. Because we all know, like, you get those messages from people that are not your ideal client or you work with someone who's not your ideal client, and it's just so draining.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Samantha Tolleson]

And so being able to work with the ones who are just totally fill me up. And I love it. Make running a business worth it.

[Evie McLeod]

Oh, it's so good.

[Lindsay Roman]

So true.

[Evie McLeod]

Amen.

[Lindsay Roman]

Awesome. Well, Samantha, thank you for being here, for sharing all your wisdom and logistical answers to our questions. And I'm sure other people have, too, about whether they're fascinated about birth photography or just wanting to be birth photographers themselves or wanting to even hire a birth photographer. Like, I feel like a lot of the questions that we had could apply to any. Could apply to literally any of them. However, if anybody wants to get in contact with you, whether it's a mom in the DFW area listening, that's like, oh, hey, I love her. I want her to photograph my birth. Or it's somebody that's just wanting. Wants to get in your DMs and talk to you more about birth photography in general, because they're wanting to start or just be your friend. Where can everyone find you?

[Samantha Tolleson]

Yeah, so I'm on Instagram and Facebook and Threads and TikTok at Samantha Tolleson Birth, and then I'm online@samantha tolleson.com and you can find me anywhere. You listen to podcasts at the Birth in Focus podcast.

[Evie McLeod]

I love it.

[Lindsay Roman]

I love the Birth and Focus. Like, that's. So that. That immediately tells me what that podcast is about by that title. I love that. I love when that happens. We don't have that, but ours doesn't. Well, maybe kind of. I love it. That's amazing. Thank you so much, Samantha, for being here.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Thank you so much for having me and for giving me this opportunity to share my passion. It really means a lot.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, I love you.

[Evie McLeod]

It was a joy for us.

[Samantha Tolleson]

Sa.