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The Heart & Hustle Podcast
404: Navigating Scarcity Mindset From Social Media and Replacing It With The Abundance of God with Whitney Lowe
00:56:40
Whitney and I discuss scarcity and how social media has such a huge impact on us in that space. Whether it’s jealousy every time we look online and see things we don’t have or people doing things we want to, OR it’s genuinely experiencing lack...
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- [00:01]
Lindsay Roman
You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. I'm your host Lindsay Roman, and today I have the absolute honor of welcoming one of my favorite girls on the Internet to the show. Whitney and I have followed each other for years and I love her so much and so I'm stoked we finally got her on the show. But if you don't know who Whitney Lowe is, Whitney Lo is a Christian influencer who wants to see young women excited about God's work in the Bible, in history and in the world, and in them. She writes and creates on Instagram at Whitney Pearson Lowe used to be Scribble devos, a project born from the realization that young women simply do not interact with the Bible enough to be changed by its truth. Whitney is passionate about disrupting the toxic scroll from social media with hope, peace and light straight from Scripture. She lives in Denver, Colorado with her husband, who is a pastor, and their two young children Now. Whitney recently released her first devotional book called Set your eyes higher, a 40 day reset to slow your anxiety and fix your focus on God. And today we dove into exactly what that means for us in this day and age when our culture culture moves at the pace of a speeding bullet, it feels like and social media landscape just so often pulls our focus and attention away from the Creator who is himself the source of peace, joy and abundance. Whitney and I discuss scarcity and how social media has such a huge impact on us in that space. Whether it's jealousy every time we look online and see things that we don't have, or people doing things that we want to do, or it's genuinely experiencing lack and then fearing that God won't provide for us. Whitney gives such a just a real and honest girl chat on how to navigate the bitterness that can so often seep into our hearts from a place of scarcity. And we also chat near the end about the conversation on how busy women, and especially moms, can just be released from this legalistic perspective of time with the Lord and how it has to look like and how God loves to meet us where we're at when we come to him with a humble heart posture. So anyways, this conversation is just so good and it wrecked me in the best way possible so I cannot wait for you to hear it so I'll stop talking so we can get into it with Whitney Lo.
- [01:57]
Evie McLeod
Let me guess, right about now you may feel a little defeated in the productivity department. No matter how hard you try, you just can't seem to cross anything off your to do list Your mind is moving a million miles per hour. But focusing on completing one little task feels impossible because of the endless day to day distractions. Hey, we are all in the same boat. There are so many distractions in entrepreneurship, let alone life itself. Being productive is an age old struggle now. While it can feel hopeless at times, trying so hard to get everything done, there is hope you can be more productive and find freedom and more time in your life and stop from spinning your wheels. I am here to tell you it is possible. We are here to help you. Which is why Lindsay and I are sharing some of our favorite ways to boost your productivity and find freedom in your workday. Head to theheartuniversity.com productivity for a freebie on our favorite ways to better manage our time and actually end the day Feel feeling good about what we accomplished.
- [03:01]
Whitney Lowe
Hey. Hey.
- [03:02]
Lindsay Roman
I'm Lindsay Roman.
- [03:03]
Evie McLeod
And I'm Evie McLeod and we are family and legacy focused serial entrepreneurs and the founders of the Heart University, a business education company with a mission to help you thrive in your business and life.
- [03:14]
Lindsay Roman
Welcome to our entrepreneur cocktail hour where business and marketing strategies meet faith. Real talk and raw and life changing conversations.
- [03:21]
Evie McLeod
At the end of the day, we are all in this together figuring out how to navigate the ups and downs, the messy and the beautiful and everything in between. This is a community where you can come as you are, get inspired and walk away equipped to build a legacy filled life.
- [03:35]
Lindsay Roman
You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. Whitney, welcome to the Heart and Hustle podcast. I am so excited to have you today. I just wanna clarify just for anybody that maybe is listening or watching this episode, Evie is with us. She literally just had, I don't even know what it's called. Appendicitis I think. So she is being discharged from the hospital after like an emergency surgery, but she is well. So if anybody. This is probably old news by the time this is airing but that is why she is not here today. So it's just me and Whitney, but Whitney, welcome to the show.
- [04:14]
Whitney Lowe
Thank you so much. It's so fun to be here and yeah, sending up prayers for Evie. Oh my gosh, that is so rough. We miss her but we excited to be here.
- [04:22]
Lindsay Roman
Definitely miss her. I am so excited. We were talking before I hit record of just how long we've been Internet friends and I'm beyond excited for you to be on the show to talk about your new devotional. So let's just get into it. But before we dive in, I want to know or sorry for anybody that is Listening that doesn't know who you are. Who is Whitney? Like, tell us your story. Or maybe like, Spark Notes version or not. We can. I don't care. I want to know who.
- [04:46]
Whitney Lowe
Testimony. Yes. Yes, I'm Whitney Lowe. I have been on, like, I call it the Christian and Internet for, I guess, like, five years now almost, but posting daily devotionals and, like, graphics, kind of in an effort to disrupt the scroll for some high school and college and young adult women that I was, like, really close to at that time. My husband's a pastor. He was a young adult pastor at the time. So we really had a lot of those people in our space. And I think I just realized, like, so many women struggle to connect to the Bible. And that came really easily to me as someone who grew up Christian and then also studied the Bible in college. So, like, I just kind of realized there's this disconnect and wanted to, I don't know, sort of put that biblical truth and like, the beauty of it in a really deep and rich way on their. Their screen so they could scroll past it and at least kind of interest or connect with it, that it would pique their interest. And, yeah, that's kind of how it all started. It was Scribble Devos at the time. Just recently changed the name to my name, Whitney Pearson Lowe with the release of this devotional in this last season. But, yeah, that's kind of the quick and dirty of my story as far as it concerns Instagram.
- [05:59]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah, this is, like, not a question on our list, but I just am curious because your posts on the Scribbles evo is incredible. Like, they are incredible. Do you have, like, a design background or were you just winging it? Like, I want to know all the things.
- [06:13]
Whitney Lowe
Super winging it. Super winging it. So I'm a big proponent of, like, just make it happen. It's actually a really long backstory, to be honest. I kind of had someone who was doing the designs early on, and then it came to light that, like, that arrangement was not working right. So then I was like, well, we just started this and it's got some good traction. So I guess I'm going to. Guess I'm going to do it. So I've been using Canva, like, a similar program to Canva this whole time, and, yeah, it's just been crazy. I think it's such a good example of, like, do the thing before you're ready and just, like, see what God does with it. That is impressive.
- [06:47]
Lindsay Roman
Everybody that's listening to this needs to go. So now your handle is Whitney Pearson Low. Like you said, I am shook. That you don't have any design background like Shooketh.
- [06:56]
Whitney Lowe
And also, you just gotta pick a font that you like, and then you gotta commit to finding the good photography, which your audience will be so good at. But, yeah, I mean, I'm telling you, it was just kind of like, okay. And then when I wrote the devotional in my original contract, they're like, so you'll design all the pages? And I was like, so, about that. I don't know how to do that, so that's not gonna work. But.
- [07:18]
Evie McLeod
Okay.
- [07:18]
Lindsay Roman
But it matches perfectly. I have the book here, and the vibe of the book and the look of the book even matches perfectly. The feed. Like, you nailed it. Your branding is on point.
- [07:30]
Whitney Lowe
They nailed it. I was so happy. I was like, you guys, I can't even. I could not have asked for better in terms of how they approached the design piece. But, yeah, it was crazy.
- [07:38]
Lindsay Roman
Oh, my gosh. Okay. Sorry. I had to derail the conversation a little bit because my, like, branding. I am like, listen, I got to know.
- [07:44]
Whitney Lowe
Yeah, no, I not derailed.
- [07:46]
Lindsay Roman
So this is your first devotional, correct?
- [07:49]
Whitney Lowe
Yes.
- [07:50]
Lindsay Roman
So what was the process like of the journey from. Okay, I'm doing this account, and I'm doing these Bible verses. Like, when did you. Did you know that you wanted to write a book when you started it? Or, like, what was the process and journey like? To start it or to want to start it? Makes sense.
- [08:05]
Whitney Lowe
Well, so I think what's cool, again, is just kind of like, I've been in very much, like, my feels and, like, looking back over kind of my life and how we got here to publishing a book when I would not say that was something I thought would happen in my life or even something I would have put on, like, my bucket list. When I was younger, I knew that I really liked writing and, you know, did, like, honors English, I guess. So I knew that. That I enjoyed that to some extent. I knew I enjoyed the Bible in particular, and just. That's why I studied it in college was just, like, really accessing that deeper truth and processing it through writing was such a big part of my faith journey. But then to kind of again, it's just like, that one little, tiny step in front of the next.
- [08:48]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah.
- [08:48]
Whitney Lowe
And so writing the devotionals was just, like. I just feel like there's all these women on social media who could, like, benefit from really sound biblical content, and so maybe I'll just, like, try it and see what happens. And I was totally anonymous. I told myself I wasn't gonna tell anyone until I was at, like, 10K, because I was so nervous about everything. And I thought it was gonna be so, like, people are gonna judge me. And then, you know, like, you continue doing these little things, and these other opportunities arise, and they're so scary. But God kind of just, like, keeps nudging you forward. And it all makes so much sense now to be like, yes, this is exactly how I've always related to God and how I've always grown. To understand him better is processing Scripture through writing. And to be able to, like, serve other people with that is something that is 100% God facilitating. And I think that's really cool how, like, you know, a lot of the time you have these big dreams and you don't know what God is going to do with them. But, like, God figures out to use your gifts and talents and your dreams together for the benefit of other people. And not just so you can, like, build some empire, but, like, for others. And I have really just been marveling at, like, his faithfulness in that.
- [09:55]
Lindsay Roman
Well, that's such a testament to just one. You just starting and then, like, having the faith to just say, hey, God, take this dream or this idea even of mine that I want to use to serve people and just, like, letting him blossom and end. But you have to have, like, the faith and confidence to, like, actually follow through with it, even when it, like, seems messy or even when it feels like it's not working. Like, I just love. I love that. So I have. When you wrote the devotional, did you, like, write during your quiet times or, like, I mean, like, like your Bible? Like, what did that look like, the writing process of it?
- [10:30]
Whitney Lowe
Well, that's how it started. I mean, so actually writing this book, I had to be a little bit more disciplined, which was hard. Yeah. But, yeah, no, I think the spirit of the devotionals and the way that they are put together is, like, almost 100% in line with how I personally love to do quiet time, which is, like, I like to take ideally a passage in the Old Testament and a passage in the New Testament, but really kind of any random two. Because it's so cool to see how the Holy Spirit makes connections in your brain in this, like, greater arc of Scripture and what Jesus means to the whole story. So I've always been a proponent of kind of, like, taking two chunks of Scripture, studying them concurrently, you know, doing that extra work of, like, what's the context? What am I missing? What do I maybe need to understand about this to really get it. But then after you've done that and sat with the scripture, it's not really even journaling. It's truly like, I just. I kind of write about, like, this is what this reveals about your character to me, you know? Or like, yeah, this is such an interesting connection here. Or this reminds me of this. Or I'm going through this and this is what you put in front of me. So I guess it is kind of journaling sometimes, but I think people would kind of make fun of me if they saw my journal, because it's very, like. It almost is like, a little academic. That's amazing. It's like, we're all different. So, yeah, it's. It's kind of that thing of processing Scripture just through writing and what really the takeaway is for us as people who want Christ to be magnified in the world. Um. And yeah, then when it came to actually writing, I had to have, like, an outline and follow a plan, which was a good discipline that the Lord shepherded me in. But. But, yeah, I would say it's pretty close. Did you.
- [12:08]
Lindsay Roman
Okay, so if. For anybody that hasn't read this, which if you haven't, like, literally go order this because it's a me, I can't talk today. Amazing. The book set your eyes higher. Is. It's categorized. Not categorized. That's not the word. I'm divided into, like, four different sections of devotionals.
- [12:26]
Whitney Lowe
Can you.
- [12:26]
Lindsay Roman
I guess my question is two part. Well, no, it's mainly just one part. Like, how did you come up, I guess, with each individual, like, chapter, devotional day, like topic? And then also what made you decide, like, the topics and the structure of dividing them into the four sections? And you want to hear the four. Four sections with us?
- [12:47]
Whitney Lowe
Yeah, for sure. And just, like, big picture, I'll say what's kind of cool about this topic, which is it's. It's based on Colossians 3, 2, which says, sets your minds on things above, not on earthly things. Look up at Christ, who is seated on the throne, and he's seated because he's been victorious and he already won. And so just kind of thinking through there. It's so broad. Like, there are so many areas in which I see Christians in particular, getting caught up in other priorities or putting other concerns and other sources of anxiety and other causes above the victory of Christ in their heart. And it is manifesting as, you know, high anxiety rates even within the church, and these high rates of burnout and overwhelm and all of these things that I think are really holding us back from actually displaying what it means to follow Jesus in the world. And none of that is because those things are unworthy in and of themselves. Like they're often good, important things that are motivated by true and good motivations in your heart. It's just that when they are the primary thing or they take up more real estate in your heart, we start to see all of these breakdowns. So it was really just more in my own reflection on it, kind of listing it out, like, what are all the spaces in me that I feel like, oh, I've set my own body image or my view of my physical body somewhere higher in my heart than my view of Jesus victory. Because I am more dragged down by knowing that like I'm not perfect physically than I am, like, encouraged by knowing that Jesus is on the throne and Jesus loves me. So how do we reorient that, you know, so in making that big grand list of all those areas, they kind of fit into four categories that I actually think are really reflective of where a lot of us are at. So the first one, the first section of 10 entries focuses on identity and insecurity. Because if you don't really understand, understand your identity as a child of God and a co heir with Christ, then you will just constantly be wrestling with insecurity in different spaces. So that's, you know, body image, that's people pleasing and you know, again, there's kind of these topics within each subcategory. The second section, which I think is really the one I am personally the most like, interested in because I think the conversation is just kind of starting around this. But it's wisdom and humility. And I think in the world we live in of like sound bites and social media and Internet access, we are all burdened by this belief that we need to perfectly and fully understand and know everything. And we feel bad about ourselves if we don't. But that also means that when we do feel like we are informed, we're very prideful and we're very arrogant and we talk to other people in a way that is not worthy of our calling from Jesus Christ. And so again, we might be right, we might not be. So there's an important caveat in like having humility around that obviously. But even if you're right, if Christ is on the throne, how does that change how you understand even what you can know? So that was another kind of 10 entries and just removing the anxiety of having to like fully understand every news story or every issue, but still be faithful. The third sub category is capacity and burnout. Because I think sort of similarly, if we feel the pressure to know everything, we also feel the pressure to do everything. So, like, one topic that really came up a lot is even, like, you know, you want to. You're told that you need to, like, brand yourself, and obviously that's like, a good business principle. But I think when you start thinking that way about your life now, it's like, oh, everything about me and everything about even the way maybe God values me boils down to, like, my resume and, like, am I checking these boxes? And, like, as a mom, I became a mom three years ago. So, right. Kind of as I was, like, pitching even this concept in this book, it was like, oh, my gosh, I never, ever, ever get to the end of my to do list. I never get that little dopamine rush of, like, I did all the things. And that was so disorienting. So wanting to help us kind of reorient our view of, like, what we're even capable of and how much it even matters that we would be perfect in those areas, when in fact God has so much grace for us and, like, he fills in all those gaps where we're not enough. And then the fourth category, which I really love because I think it sort of encapsulates all of the previous ones is scarcity and abundance. And again, I think I'm seeing more of this discussion around scarcity mindset, abundance mindset, kind of honestly, in, like, New Age circles. But I actually think, like, God owns abundance, so we as Christians should be so constantly living from that place of, my father owns everything and there is more than enough for me, and I can trust that what he provides to me is going to meet my needs. Those might not align with the needs that culture tells you that you have. That might not align with, like, luxury vacations. That might not align with having a certain picture of, like, even friendship and relationships. I think we get caught up in societal narratives around that instead of, like, what God has set before us. So, again, reorienting our idea of abundance, I think can really free us. Oh, my God, that was super long winded. But those are the categories.
- [18:04]
Lindsay Roman
That was perfect. Well, I even love the order. I mean, you probably think about this, like, when you're, like, structuring the book, but, like, the fact that you're starting with identity, like, that's the foundation before you start adding on all the other, you know, things that we deal with in this life, especially as A woman of faith, just in our culture, like that is so foundational and crucial. Oh, and I love, I love what you said about every single one. I kind of want to talk. We, if we have time, we might talk about all of them possibly. But I want to talk right now about the Scarcity and Abundance 1. I feel like what, I want to know what your thoughts are on how social media impacts, like the view we have of abundance and scarcity. Because I think in our culture it's so hard to live a life that is apart from just awareness of the world. I mean, you kind of touched on that in all of them a little bit. But I feel like we're glued to our phones. We have the news on, or if we don't have the news on, we see it by default if. Whether we want to or not, on art, on social. And we just have this noise all around us that's telling us what we don't have or what we need more of or insert whatever. How do you think that that impacts specifically? Just that section of the devotional? I guess, the topic, if that makes sense.
- [19:30]
Whitney Lowe
Yeah, no, I think we need such an overhaul of sanctification in this category and how we think about what it really means to live the good life and what we really think of as blessing from God. And social media, I think has really magnified that because in virtually every category you are just constantly assaulted with things that you don't have or that you don't think you are, or someone who has it better or someone who has more friends or like every single thing that elicits comparison I think is essentially a part of our hearts that believes God is not a good enough provider. Because if you are looking at someone else, then there's an entry on this and the devotional. But if you're looking at like someone you know or a friend or someone on the Internet and you're saying, oh, I just wish I was like them in whatever category you're really saying to God, like, I don't think that your plan for me is good enough. And I don't think the way you've wired me is good enough. And I'm not happy with that. Yeah. So I really think it's important to be so hyper aware of those spaces in our hearts that are subject or vulnerable to that comparison game. That's just, I think, a human thing. I think that's a human problem. But social media has made it so much harder, and that's not a surprise. But the other thing I've really been convicted about personally is that I have just, without knowing it, internalized this narrative about what it looks like to flourish and thrive according to the values of the world. So again, it's kind of like, man, I really want to be able to retire early and have a ton of money in the bank so that we can have a really nice home and we can travel the world and our kids will have everything they need and we never have to worry. And then we'll have like a whole ton of friends who all kind of are like fun and easy to be around and look like us. And you know, it's like, I think it's really important actually from like a practical standpoint to take inventory in each category of your life of like, what is my aspiration, what is my vision of like the perfect end scenario? And then to line that up with scripture and to say, is that what God promises? Is that actually a biblical vision of the good life and of thriving? And if it's not, then it's time to do the hard work of saying, okay, God, I want your kingdom. I don't want this kingdom. My heart does not really believe that deeply right now. So I need you to sanctify that and change that so that I can be aligned with your vision for eternity. Really.
- [22:09]
Lindsay Roman
Oh my gosh, I cannot agree with that more. That is so true though, that what you just said of like taking our cues of and we don't even do this like consciously, it's all subconsciously based on what we see mostly from social media. But even in life it's like, we'll see. I like what you said of just like the good life of like, oh, I want like a safe place. Not that we can't have safe place, right? Like, I want a safe home. And it's, it's often all of these things aren't even bad necessarily. It's just that we've added them in our heads as what we are almost owed. Yes, I want a safe house. I want food on the table and I want a three car garage and I want that car because I deserve it. Or it can go a bunch of different ways. And I often find in my life it comes through, I think most often in clothes and design, like home decor. Because I think that's what as a woman, and I'm sure a lot of people could relate to this of just like, I love to look good and I love my home to look good. And not, not that there's anything wrong with those things, but I can find myself when I'm Scrolling like getting into this cycle of like, oh, her house looks so good. Why does it. Why does mine not look like that? And then I find like a seed of bitterness start to grow in my heart of like, well, my house looks like crap, basically. So now I don't like it. And now every time I walk into it, it doesn't look like her house. So now feel this just disdain for it. And it's like, that seed is not helpful. And it also is. It's living out of like this. It's not living out of abundance of like, wow, I have a house. Look at what God's provided me. Look at like, you could compare it to so many other things of just like, the Lord has blessed me radically. But when we're always looking in this comparison mindset of just what we don't have. And like, yeah, sure, maybe it doesn't look like the person that you. Oftentimes also, everything online is fake. Not always. But like most perfect lighting. It's like the most. Like, I'm in a studio and if anybody's watching this on YouTube, I have like a studio set up. That's not what my house looks like. Normally. It's just everything. It's not a lie, but it's just heavily curated and we take that and we just let it filter and then inform our hearts and that seed of bitterness for what our actual lives look like. I feel like this. It just is almost even based on a lie. And it just like. But roundabout to say, I love what you just said of everything in that is is not necessarily aligning with scripture. Like when we're just letting the world and the culture and the Internet inform what we should or should not want or should or should not have. Does that make sense?
- [24:45]
Whitney Lowe
Right? They're not bad things. It's just they're not promised things all the time or they're not promised in the way that we have come to believe that we are owed, like you said. And if God doesn't give me these things, then God is not good. And I think we have to really be aggressive. We have to be so intentional about rooting out those places in our heart that are vulnerable to really the enemy, sowing discontentment that is going to like, make us ineffective and also make us hate our life. Because God promises provision. He does promise to feed us. He promises to clothe us. He promises to surround us with community, which he often uses to do those previous two things if we are in need by design. And above all, God promises to be our like bread of life and our living water to sustain us with joy and peace even when we don't have all those things that the world tells us we need. And I think it would be so cool to see more Christians who really, truly were aligned with, like, the way of Jesus and the ethic of the Kingdom of God. Because I think if we all did this right, if we all really said, none of this is real, I want the kingdom of Jesus Christ, we would find ourselves so overrun with joy and contentment, and we would find ourselves with the kind of community that our world is desperate for. And I think if we really, all of us kind of like turn off these lies together, I think people would find the gospel really compelling in this day and age. So I'm really fired up about that. And that's part of the motivation of this devotional is like, let's just kind of like make an on ramp. Let's make an easy on ramp to like aligning ourselves with scripture and realizing how lesser all of the ways of thinking about this that the world offers are compared to God.
- [26:32]
Evie McLeod
Hey Hey. If you are new here and haven't heard about our online resource shop, listen up. The Heart Shop is a digital resource and template shop for creative entrepreneurs and photographers. There are so many goodies for creative entrepreneurs in the shop, like website templates, PDF guide templates, illustrations to enhance your brand, and lots more. But one thing in particular we made sure to add was contract templates. Y'all. The horror stories we have heard in our years of business is unmatched and a little terrifying. Clients refusing to pay after you've delivered a service, clients demanding their retainer back after canceling on you last minute. The list goes on. Business shouldn't feel like you're walking on eggshells though. And yet that's how most of us feel when we first start our business. We're petrified to make a wrong move or have an unhappy client.
- [27:22]
Lindsay Roman
Okay, but here's the truth. One of the first foundational steps of owning your own business should be protecting yourself legally with contracts. Yes. Yes. Even for friends and family. Contracts allowed us to walk in confidence as we grew our photography businesses. But also hiring a lawyer to create custom contracts for you is a pain in the butt and the wallet. And grabbing whatever free or cheap template online is often not enough protection.
- [27:45]
Whitney Lowe
Yes.
- [27:46]
Evie McLeod
So we wanted to make this as easy and seamless for you as possible and give you the resources to make sure you have your butt protected. We have partnered with our favorite lawyer and attorney, Paige from the Legal page. She has not only created powerful contract templates, but her team is so present and ready to help figure out which ones you need for your business.
- [28:04]
Lindsay Roman
You can stagger contracts in her shop like the Wedding Photography Contract Destination, Intimate Wedding Contract Cancellation and Rescheduling Bundle, Second Shooter and Associate Contracts, and honestly, so much more. Just head to the heart contracts.com for 10% off. That's the heart contract. If you're enjoying what you're getting in this podcast for free, then you're about to get your mind blown with what we offer in our educational courses. If you're ready to uplevel your business, serve your clients like never before, and reach revenue goals that you've barely dared to dream of, then we're ready to help.
- [28:39]
Evie McLeod
Our courses are packed full of tools, formulas, strategies and resources to help you kick freaking butt in biz. Whether you choose the Photo Major, a complete course for photographers, or the Content Photo Minor, a mini course on how to finally slay your content photos for your blog, Insta Headshots, whatever, you will walk away with more knowledge than you ever thought possible. And here's the reality. We are here to see you succeed always and forever. And that is why we created each and every one of these courses.
- [29:08]
Lindsay Roman
To check them out for yourself, read the reviews and look at each course syllabus, go to theheartuniversity.com course. That's theheartuniversity.com courses. Do you have advice for anybody that maybe is listening to this, that they're kind of sitting in that place of maybe bitterness or even fear? Because I think there's an element of scarcity that it could come from a place of jealousy of like, oh my, you know, home or life or whatever isn't as, you know, X as that person. And so that's almost a place of jealousy. But I think when it comes to scarcity, there could also be another conversation of fear, of like, oh no, how am I going to survive? And it's, it's based in that, if any, if someone's listening to either of those camps or if they feel either of those camps other than maybe. I mean, you can also talk about getting in the word. But like, what would you advise them, like, heart, posture or mindset to do if that's where they're at right now?
- [30:05]
Whitney Lowe
So I do really think that it's, it's like a good exercise to genuinely sit down with like a notebook and like, write out the categories of your life, like finances, family, community, like My Body, like, all of these different categories that I think we Struggle and to literally write out, like, what do I want this to look like? What do I think it has to look like? And then to, like, spend some concerted time just, like, presenting that to the Lord. And obviously, like, I think scripture is pretty integral to, like, growing and understanding. But I also very much resonate with this feeling of, like, okay, well, we live in the physical world of 2024, and things look really, really dark a lot the time and groceries are super freaking expensive. And it's really scary to, like, especially, like we were talking about, have little kids and to be like, I think it's fine. Like, you know, and I think we need to remember that we have a high priest who empathizes with our weaknesses, like it says in Hebrews. He cares a lot about the fact that, yeah, every morning we're waking up and our eyes are opening to a world that can look really, really dark. So I think the prayer of, you know, the Father, I think it's in Mark who said, I believe help my unbelief, like, to hold that tension and to say, God, my heart does not really believe that you can provide like this. It really doesn't. But I want to believe that and I want to live the life of radical faith that you've called me to. But I need you to help me catch up with you and I need you to help me catch up with your work. And I think that prayer has been pretty life changing because it's so simple and it decentralizes me and my ability to, like, be good enough or, like, be perfect or have enough faith. It just says, like, okay, God, I know this is real and I know you're there, but my heart is really struggling. So I need you to kind of make up that difference and make up that space. And, like, that's what he does. Like, God makes up the gaps every time, whether that's like, financially or, like, in all these other physical needs or if those gaps are in us. And I think that includes faith, right?
- [32:06]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I also think I want to share a small story of God being so faithful in a season. Because I think it's helpful if you're in that current season to almost hear other stories of, oh, wow, we know almost head knowledge that God's faithful and okay, yeah, he provides for the sparrows. He'll provide for me. Okay. But it's like, when you hear stories of it actually happening, it's like, whoa. So I won't take super long, but. But this. When was it? This June. Me and my family with A bunch of friends had a trip to France planned, which already. That's like, I, that's like first world, right? Yes, that's already like on a caliber of like, oh, wow, that's nice for you. But that's what we had planned. And this year has in general been financially tight. Like, or earlier this year had been financially tight. Mostly like one of the tightest seasons that we had been in like since we probably got married. And there was an element of planning this trip that kind of felt frivolous and like unnecessary when it, when like you're, you're planning something that. Or when your daily life is like, okay, let's be like, really wise with our money. We want to steward it well. We want to be, you know, frugal and like, you know, bless others and have, you know, just be wise in general with our finances. And as we were getting closer to the trip, like it had been planned like nine months in advance. And so we were like, how are we going to pay for it? Like, are we just going to do the whole thing on debt? Like, that seems stupid. That's. That's a really bad idea. And we were just like, what are we going to do? And I remember like the week of. Well, here, let me quick back note that's kind of relevant. We had originally bought land in Florida that we had then sold to buy our house. That. Long story short, we had done seller finance. So we had the owner of our. Of their land. Now that we are just like the bank, basically. If anybody knows how seller finance works, it's basically where the new owner pays us instead of like, we're the mortgage people. I don't know finance talk. Anyways, I'm going way too in depth for this. Basically they owed us and they paid us monthly. And it was supposed to be a balloon, like do of like the rest of the money in like, I think summer of 2025. Like a huge lump of cash, like hundreds of thousands of dollars that were going to be paid to us in the summer of 2025. Literally the two days before we were set to fly to France, the guy calls Andrew and he's like, hi, I would like to pay it off early. And like, I was like, are. Are you joking?
- [34:52]
Whitney Lowe
What?
- [34:52]
Lindsay Roman
I like, got chills when I was like, are you joking me? Like, and that's obviously it was, it was something that felt frivolous at the time. I was like, we don't need to go to France. Like that' just such like a frivolous thing. But God spoke to My heart in that moment of just like, hey, I care about you. And even if something feels frivolous, like, I want you to be happy. And I want you to also know that, like, this is okay and that you. You don't need to be, like, stressed in that moment. And God cares about, like, the little things that we love. And it was just like such a. I was like, this is only God. Only God could do something like that. And just like, that radically just be like. I mean, there's like, so hundreds of other examples that I'm sure everyone has of just like, God providing at the absolute last minute, or not even the last minute. But I feel like usually he loves to wait till the last minute.
- [35:43]
Whitney Lowe
I know. Well, he needs you to know. Right? He needs our, like, frail human minds to, like, see, literally, I'm right here with you right now.
- [35:50]
Lindsay Roman
Like, had that happened like a month before, I would have been like, dope, sweet. I would not have probably connected it in my mind about being like, wow, God, thank you for providing for. Wow. Can't talk. For providing. Like, literally, we. He, like, gave us the check as we're, like, driving to the airport. Like, that's.
- [36:06]
Whitney Lowe
And then you had a good trip.
- [36:11]
Lindsay Roman
I will take that extra baguette. Thank you. No, it was. It was just like such a God moment. So I love. I just wanted to share that example of just like, no.
- [36:19]
Whitney Lowe
Yeah.
- [36:20]
Lindsay Roman
Having people, like, hear stories of just like, wow, God is so faithful. And it's also hard, I think, when. When we don't get that experience because there's been also many times in our life, whether it was financial or, you know, another thing where we were feeling scarcity or that lack where I'm just like, God, pull through, pull through. And he doesn't, you know, for whatever reason. And I think in those moments, too, you still have to have faith and you still have to have the awareness that God, his ways are greater than your own. And you don't always know why, and you might not know why, but it's like having.
- [36:52]
Whitney Lowe
And God's always refining, or he's flourishing. Like, I really think that God's activity in our life, it is not withholding, but it's like he's either pruning, he's refining you, he's growing your faith in those moments of lack, or he is flourishing you and letting you see the fruit of that work that he's done. And I think it's so easy to think, like, oh, he didn't come through for me because he doesn't love Me. And that's like, that is a lie. It's just a lie. And I think your story actually is such a good example of, like, in our culture right now, if someone tells a story, like, what you've, like, what you said, the comment section is going to be flooded with, like, oh, that's nice for you. Or like, this is a really privileged perspective and you need to be aware that, like, people are struggling. And, like, that's not untrue. Like, of course we should be aware of, like, how many people are in need right now. But at the same time, when we tell stories of God's faithfulness, like, that what we're doing is giving other people's faith that little boost. Right? Like, we are saying, God did it for me and God will do things like this for you, and God is capable of doing that, and he's real. And if we process everything through the lens of comparison and everything through a lens of scarcity, we're not going to get to hear those stories because we're going to be so caught up on bitterness. And I think there's such an epidemic of that that in our society, specifically on social media, where it's like, okay, so when do we get to talk about God's like, glorious, good, kind work in someone else's life and not feel like, well, he didn't do that for me. So I don't like your story. Like, no, we're robbing the body.
- [38:22]
Lindsay Roman
If you share it, you're being toxic positivity. Or you're like, being toxic positive, whatever, whatever that phrase is that everyone looks away around.
- [38:31]
Whitney Lowe
No, exactly. But it's also, like, we also need a robust theology of suffering, and I think we're lacking in that. And that's part of the problem, that we don't have a really healthy way of talking about suffering and why, again, it's not necessarily going to look like the world says it should for you to thrive and hard things happen. But also, if we can't share those stories about God's miraculous provision, we lose something really, really big. So I think that's a perfect example of, like, why that section exists.
- [38:57]
Lindsay Roman
Do you have a favorite passage? It doesn't have to be from the Scarcity and abundance chapter, but just in general. Do you have a favorite? Favorite, like Day of devotional or passage from Set your eyes higher that, like, you're just. It is whether it's your favorite or you just really feel like the Holy Spirit's telling you to share right now. I would love to know.
- [39:16]
Whitney Lowe
Yeah, the Passage that actually jumped out to me this morning. It's from Psalm 127, and it starts in verse one. Unless the Lord builds the house, the builders labor in vain. Unless the Lord watches over the city, the guards stand watch in vain. In vain. You rise up early and stay up late toiling for food to eat. For he grants sleep to those he loves. And the devotional is really just about like, if God didn't build it, if God didn't give it to you, you don't want it. You know, we do not want the vision of success that isn't God's vision of success. Because even if we get it, our hearts will not be content. Our hearts will not be fulfilled. We will still be sad. We will still be wanting. So, again, if that is like kind of that motivation to reorient to God's priorities, because that is where your heart will be fulfilled, I think that's kind of. It might be in the capacity and Burnout section just about. You know, we take it all on our backs to, like, make our lives mean something. And that is not a calling God ever intended for us. And we need to ultimately look up at him and say, what do you want for my life? And what is this past going to look like? Because I'm going to follow one little frail step at a time, but I need you with me. So, yeah, that one, I think, is really special for me now too. Like launching a book and being like, okay, where are we going? I don't know, but the world's telling me I have to do xyz. And I don't. I don't think that's a view.
- [40:40]
Lindsay Roman
I think it applies to burnout. And it, I feel like, still could apply to the scarcity, like. Like that concept of whether you're, you know, wanting to start a business or. Or do something that God isn't in, it will be harder and it will feel like pushing up against a brick wall. But at the same time, if you're wanting something, like from a scarcity standpoint or a jealousy standpoint, kind of. Of just like, oh, but I want what they have, or God, I feel like I'm in a season of lack. And I just want, like, to feel like I am taken care of in this, in this way. Like, maybe I. I want more money in this season. Not that that's bad necessarily, but I. I like. It's like if God isn't in it, if God has you in this season for whatever reason, and it's like he's trying to teach you something or, you know, he's doing something in your life that will ultimately bring you through, like, the fire of resilience and make you stronger. Even though we don't often like, going through that, I feel like, like, God. I just love that, like, if God isn't in it, you don't want it. And obviously, the. The house example that's in scripture is just perfect. It's like, if you're not building God's house, like, you're gonna build something that will fall to the ground every time.
- [41:51]
Whitney Lowe
Yeah. You want the plan that he wrote for you, and you want to be able to, like, rest in knowing that anything you mess up in the process of building that building that God planned, like, he will make up the difference. So you can rest and you don't have to. Like, you know, your podcast is the heart and the hustle, and I know that comes from, like, a very grounded and biblical place, but, like, hustle culture in general is so, like, you can hack it, or I think this thing on Instagram that's happening now is, like, there's entire categories of influencers whose entire thing is helping people get more followers and get more views. And, like, here's the hack and here's how you use the audio and whatever. And it's like, it's not bad. Like, I don't think you can't, you know, leverage stuff like that, but also, like, it kind of trains your mind to think, I can hack it. I can hack my way into the kind of growth and success that I envision for myself, when in actuality, I don't think there's any version of a biblical worldview that says, oh, yeah, if you just, like, follow this specific formula, then, like, God has to grant you success and flourishing. You know, like, and it might work in some ways, but it's just, like, don't let your brain be trained by that way of thinking. And it's so easy to do.
- [43:04]
Lindsay Roman
That just hit me so hard as an enneagram3 that wants to achieve.
- [43:10]
Whitney Lowe
We're still allowed to talk about Enneagram over here.
- [43:13]
Lindsay Roman
No, I love it. But, like, that's so true because it's. I mean, all of social media, but especially, like, in the creative entrepreneur space of just, like, okay, I want to rise to success, like, all of culture, I feel like, is. Is wanting a faster way to do something. And, like, the more that technology and even AI and just, like, the Internet, everything becomes a part of our culture. It's like that we're. We're going faster than we did before. We're trying to do more than we did before. And it's like, if you look back from, or look at our culture back to, you know, before the Internet and even. Even in, you know, 1900s, it's like life was such a slower pace of life, and we're just like, on this fast track that's moving faster and faster and trying to do more and more and more and hack, hack life, you know, make meals faster. Not that again, that's bad. But like, the concept of just trying to go faster and faster and faster when God's like, no, no, no, slow down. Like, reroute. Slow.
- [44:09]
Whitney Lowe
Yeah, well, totally just keeping watch on, like, I think that's kind of the overarching principle is like, how is the world that we live in dis discipling you to understand flourishing and God? And I think it is one thing to like, you know, sign up for like a meal, subscription service, like, whatever, that's fine. But like, if you're not really intentionally keeping inventory of how that's maybe making you think about, like, what it means to be truly nourished or what it means to, like, have a healthy home. Like, there's so many different things that I think very subtly kind of wiggle into our brain. Brains. So I just want people to like, keep a tight rein on that and not shut their brain off when they're consuming, particularly media. But really everything about the world, like, it all needs to be run through that filter of is this the heart of God for human flourishing? And if you can't honestly make a case for it, like, that's between you and the Holy Spirit to, like, hash that one out. But don't just, like, move it to the side of your brain that doesn't, you know, you're not going to just put it to the side and not think about it. Like, let's think about.
- [45:11]
Lindsay Roman
About it a hundred percent. I even find sometimes myself turning my quiet time with God into like. Like, if I'm trying to fit it into fit it, right? Like, I leave it the terminology. Like, if I'm trying to fit it into my morning routine, I'll like, start viewing it as like, okay, it's like a checklist on my morning routine. So I have to, like, have to get this done. Okay. I have to do my. My devotional that I'm reading today is like three chapters in Psalms. Okay. One, two, three. Done. Great.
- [45:37]
Whitney Lowe
It's.
- [45:38]
Lindsay Roman
It's like that even that mindset. Yeah, yeah. Even that mindset is counter to the slowing down and like the restful peace that God wants to encounter us in. And it's like that it just, it's a cycle and then you go online and then you see all the things and it's like, how do we stop that? Like how do we actually truly, I guess get in because that's ultimately where your account started with is just like making people popular. Pause when they're scrolling and it's like, no, encounter God in a new way. Get back to the word, like how do we, how do we like I guess shut out all the noise and like actually get back to intimate deep time with the Lord. What would you, what would your advice be for that?
- [46:18]
Whitney Lowe
Well, so something I do think about a lot and it's related actually to what you said. But kind of the flip side is that I think a lot of the time the reason that we don't open the Bible is because we either just like don't really understand it and we are not really sure how to ask God for help understanding it or because there's sort of this like weird Christian ethos around it that says if you're not doing an hour of inductive Bible study every day, that like it's not good enough.
- [46:46]
Lindsay Roman
Right.
- [46:46]
Whitney Lowe
So I again study the Bible in college. Big fan of inductive study. Really think people need a deeper and more robust understanding of like theology and the biblical studies of it all. That section said that is a very works based way of looking at time with God. It's a very workspace. Depends on me. Depends on like how smart I am, depends on am I able to get to good resources. And it does not really depend on the power of God and the power of the Holy Spirit to access your heart and bring about fruit. That has nothing to do with anything other than your posture of need. So I think, I think I wanna help people again have like that soft on ramp to like. I believe that the truth of God is the truth of God. I believe that the gospel is as winsome as it is challenging. And that if people are in the presence of Jesus for two minutes with a posture of like, Lord, I don't know what to do, but I need you. God can do incredible things with that. I think we need more of like a loaves and fishes type of approach to our own spirituality that says, okay God, today I've got this much, this much on me. Like this is all I feel like I'm working with. But I know that you can multiply that and make it count. And I think that's really Approaching every single day with just like, lord, I do not feel like reading my Bible. I'm going to read two verses of the Gospel of John, knowing that you can make that mean something and you can bring about growth in me. And more even than that, God can continue to grow your affection to him if you give him that little every day. So I want people, whether they're like baby Christians who think that they're not adequate in their understanding, or whether that's people like myself who've been in the church a long time, who feel like they're failing if they're not, like, doing a certain thing every day to meet God. And of course, the goal is that we set people on a trajectory toward deep intimacy with Jesus and a deep understanding of Scripture. But again, I don't want it to be like, it depends on you. So get your act together and figure out how to make the time. So I think that's, like, a big thing, is just kind of changing your thinking about it. And again, a posture that says, I can't be bothered. I don't have time. I guess I'll open my Bible for, like, two verses is so different than, like, you know, showing up and saying, I don't have anything else in me. God, like, please help. So I think that's kind of the essential thing, is you have to be honest with yourself about where you're at day to day. But, yeah, I think exactly. It's so much about heart posture, and there's so much humility in that, too, which I think is a big theme in the devotional, too, is, like, a lot of us really think we've got it together, don't we? Like, yeah, no, no, no, we're not gonna be like that.
- [49:30]
Lindsay Roman
Even just if you genuinely have two minutes, Especially as, like, busy moms, I think could relate to this. Like, I physically don't have time to open the Bible and get into it. Even if you have two minutes, it's like, just with that humble posture, heart posture of, like, going to God and be like, hey, I'm trying. Please meet me in these two verses, please. Like, I want to seek you and I want to learn more. Like, help me to learn and to grow and get closer to you and speak to me in these two verses. And, like, every time he will show.
- [49:58]
Whitney Lowe
Up to do that, I know you're real. Like, if you. If we know and we believe that he's real, why do we keep telling him he cannot bring about transformation in these categories unless it looks a certain, honestly, legalistic way Like, I just feel so strongly about that. And I think there's this kind of weird new version of legalism in the church that I think is, again, motivated by good things but is ultimately not rooted in the character of Christ. And, like, yeah, I don't know. So I think that that's so important and so good. And again, like, we just want people whose heart posture is aligned with the things of the things of God, and I think God kind of does the rest. Like, we show up knowing we have very little.
- [50:38]
Lindsay Roman
Little.
- [50:38]
Whitney Lowe
And then we watch God transform.
- [50:40]
Lindsay Roman
That's so good. Oh, my gosh, Whitney, I could talk to you for literally hours.
- [50:44]
Whitney Lowe
I know. I love this. I'm having so much fun.
- [50:46]
Lindsay Roman
Like a girl chat, going back and forth. It's so fun. Oh, man. Okay. But to respect your time, I gotta wrap it up. We have some questions that we share at the. Or ask you, I guess, at the end of every episode. The first one is, this is a selfish question that me and Evie created to were, like, we're talking to incredible people all the time. Like, let's ask for their book recommendations. So is there a favorite? Especially because you're now an author. Hey, O. Is there a favorite book that you have either read recently or just, like, you want to throw at us, like, your favorite book of all time situation.
- [51:21]
Whitney Lowe
Oh, it's so fun because it's actually so related to what we were just talking about. It's a really short little book. It's called Domestic Monastery by Ronald Rolheiser.
- [51:30]
Lindsay Roman
Okay.
- [51:31]
Whitney Lowe
I have that kind of. Yeah, I'll send it to you, too.
- [51:35]
Lindsay Roman
Okay.
- [51:35]
Whitney Lowe
It's. It's kind of. Maybe a different genre. It might feel a little bit foreign. It's. It's. You know, it's not like a warm, fuzzy. You know, it's not the kind of book a lot of us are used to reading, myself included. However, the whole idea that this guy is making is that, as a mother, God is doing the work of spiritual formation in you. Just in, like, the inherent self sacrifice and in the inherent, like, putting others ahead of yourself and having to, you know, kind of expand your vis. Beyond what you need. And in, like, the waking up at night and in the making the meals every day. And so it takes this pressure off of, like, am I spending enough time with God in the right way, or am I surrendering myself to the work that God is trying to do through the circumstances in my life? And it's so freeing and so beautiful. And I think every mom who's, like, you know, you see all the time. Like, we were talking about moms who are like, how do I make time for Bible study when, like, I've got two little kids and. Whatever, whatever. I have two kids who, like, won't not co. Sleep. Like, they're just always in my bed. So I can't wake up early. I can't get up 20 minutes early and get away with it. And I am cleaning my house because they deserve to be in a home that is at least, like, not a complete, like, toxic situation. Yes. Like, I am not lying when I say I do not have an hour to sit with the Bible, but God, because of the fact that, like, I have fed these children for this many years and because I am putting their need for rest even ahead of my own. Like, there is such a specific and beautiful kind of sanctification that God is up to almost whether you like it or not, but especially if you can see that and surrender to it. And that's what the book is about. And it's really short and so beautiful.
- [53:17]
Lindsay Roman
Wow, that's so good. Okay. I'm like, immediately. I need to make that, like, my book. Yeah, that's amazing. I want to read that immediately. Okay, the next one. The next one is. I kind of want to change it a little bit because of this devotional. The question was, what's the biggest lesson you've learned in business? But kind of tweaking that a little bit to writing this book, what's the biggest lesson that you learned in writing this devotional?
- [53:42]
Whitney Lowe
Man. Yeah, so I think. I think it is the theme of this all, which is that it doesn't really depend on me as much as it depends on my ability to acknowledge my need for God. Because writing this book, you know, I did my very best writing every single night, submitting it to my editor, and the edit process was, like, pretty painstaking. But at the end of the day, I really feel like God brought about this book that feels like so much of it was just him putting a specific situation in my life at exactly the time I was, like, needing to write about it or God putting editors into the picture that could challenge things that needed challenging. Like, all of this happened in the context of God's sovereignty and in, like, community. And I think that has, again, just been this, like, freeing realization that if you just submit to God's work in your life, he really handles so many of the logistics. And, yeah, I think that's also probably true of business, to be honest. Like, it's that one little step, that one little next step. It's that one little, like, okay. God, I think you want me to do this. I might fail and look really silly, but that's okay. Like, that's fine. And, yeah, amazing.
- [54:53]
Lindsay Roman
Oh, I cannot just, like, clap and what's that called? Snap. Enough. Oh, my gosh, Whitney, thank you so much for just all the wisdom and empowerment and just, like, girl chat that we've had today. I literally am not kidding when I say I could talk to you forever. So for anybody that's listening to this episode and has just, like, you fed their souls so much and they want to get the book, they want to go follow you on Instagram, if they don't already. Where can they find you? Where can they buy your book? All, like, shout us out, all the. All the places. Oh, thanks.
- [55:26]
Whitney Lowe
So my Instagram handle is Whitney pearsonlo. I do most of the things there. I'm like, really? I'm giving TikTok my best shot, but I don't know. I don't know if that's the Lord's portion for me at this time. And then I think the book is available pretty much anywhere books are sold. I got to take my little kids to Barnes and Noble, and that was, like, the most surreal thing in my life. So.
- [55:45]
Lindsay Roman
Oh, my gosh. Did you go and, like, sign all the copies?
- [55:47]
Whitney Lowe
I got too nervous. I thought about it, but I always.
- [55:52]
Lindsay Roman
Feel like I don't. I haven't written a book, but I've always wanted to, and I've always thought about that. Mom, when you walk into Barnes and Noble and it feels like you're vandalizing if you, like, write it a book.
- [55:59]
Whitney Lowe
Well, there was someone, like, stocking a shelf really close to me, and I was like, I think this might be weird, but I think I might try to go back and, like, ask permission, because that's my personality.
- [56:08]
Lindsay Roman
If they, like, stopped you, you could just, like, whip out your driver's license, be, like, lick. It matches the name on the book.
- [56:14]
Whitney Lowe
I'm good.
- [56:14]
Lindsay Roman
I'm the author. Thank you.
- [56:15]
Whitney Lowe
Seriously. I know I'm a rule follower, so I, like, need to go. Need to go. Just ask someone, and then I'll be fine.
- [56:20]
Lindsay Roman
I'll do it. That's amazing.
- [56:22]
Whitney Lowe
Oh, my gosh.
- [56:22]
Lindsay Roman
Well, Whitney, thank you so much for being on the show. I had so much fun. I know our listeners did, too.
- [56:27]
Whitney Lowe
It was so good. Thanks, Lindsay.