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The Heart & Hustle Podcast
414: This photographer has a 5M+ real estate portfolio. How he did it and how you can do it too with Cameron Philgreen
01:01:54
Today we are sitting down and chatting with Cameron Philgreen. Cameron Philgreen is a real estate investor, business owner, husband, dad, and follower of Jesus, who's passionate about helping others achieve success in real estate, business and life....
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- [00:00]
Evie McLeod
You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are your hosts Evie McLeod and Lindsay Roman and today we are speaking to our creative entrepreneurs who are wanting to diversify their income streams. Interested in real estate investing? In having wealth and investments that build and grow for you over the years. You can honestly don't even have to be a real estate or a creative entrepreneur.
- [00:25]
Lindsay Roman
No, not at all.
- [00:25]
Evie McLeod
You could just be anyone who's interested in real estate investing. This episode is about to be a pile of gold, a wealth of information and we get to talk today with Cameron Philgreen to bring it all to you. So if you aren't familiar with him, Cameron is a real estate investor, business owner, husband, dad and follower of Jesus who is passionate about helping others achieve success in real estate, business and life. He's built a portfolio of real estate investments, mastering strategies like the Brrrr method which we'll dive into. But to give you a sneak peek, buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat and leveraging his money to grow well sustainably. He is also the owner of four Keeps Co and Bakery in Waco, Texas. And when he's not investing or working on the business, he is spending time with his wife Danielle and their two soon to be three kids.
- [01:10]
Lindsay Roman
What I really loved about talking with Cameron today, one, he was I say this in the show but he was me and Andrew's wedding photographer. So hey, we didn't talk about it too much in the actual episode but we brought him on to talk specifically about real estate because we thought it would be a really great bridge for a lot of us that don't have maybe a foot in the real estate world and we're kind of new to it. He from being a full time wedding and videographer photographer to now doing real estate and investing and doing all the things and so today still does photography.
- [01:43]
Evie McLeod
That's what we didn't like cover a ton on the show but he still.
- [01:46]
Lindsay Roman
Actively does photography a beast. So we with Cameron broke down today how he got started in real estate and he goes nitty gritty on specifically house hacking. He went really in depth into the Burr method which Evie just said it is buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat. So much idea ideas within that of.
- [02:06]
Evie McLeod
How to actually practically do that, financing for beginners, how to find deals, what.
- [02:11]
Lindsay Roman
To look for, how to buy houses without your own money. Stay tuned. And just how to build a legacy with wealth building for your family, for your future generation kids, all of that. And so today we we could have Cameron on so many times to talk about so many things. He was just incredible. And this episode is going to be so helpful for anybody that's wanting to dip their toe into real estate or just learn more about real estate. What books to read, podcasts to read. Cameron's got it all for you today. So without further ado, let's get into it. Have you always dreamed of becoming a photographer but you have just no clue where to start when it comes to operating an actual camera? Maybe you finally bought that fancy camera or you've dusted off that old DSLR sitting in your garage for way too long, you pull out the manual and everything just looks Greek to you.
- [02:58]
Evie McLeod
Yes, we have been there and we vividly remember when we first started out as photographers asking anyone and everyone for help because we didn't know what to do or where to even start. Well, good news if that sounds familiar. Today we are going back to the basics. If you are ready to create stunning professional looking work that you are dang proud of and actually know how the heck to operate your camera, download our free manual mode camera cheat sheet@theheartuniversity.com manual and you'll be on your merry way to becoming an absolute pro in no time.
- [03:38]
Cameron Philgreen
Hey.
- [03:38]
Lindsay Roman
Hey. I'm Lindsay Roman.
- [03:40]
Evie McLeod
And I'm Evie McLeod and we are family and legacy focused serial entrepreneurs and the founders of the Hart University, a business education company with a mission to help you thrive in your business and life.
- [03:51]
Lindsay Roman
Welcome to our entrepreneur cocktail hour where business and marketing strategies meet faith, real talk and raw in life changing conversations.
- [03:57]
Evie McLeod
At the end of the day, we are all in this together figuring out how to navigate the ups and downs, the messy and the beautiful and everything in between. This is a community where you can come as you are, get inspired and walk away, equipped to build a legacy filled life.
- [04:12]
Lindsay Roman
You're listening to the Heart and Hustle Podcast. Cameron Philgreen, welcome to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are beyond excited to have you here.
- [04:27]
Cameron Philgreen
What's up guys? So excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
- [04:30]
Lindsay Roman
Okay, I have to introduce you this way because the lore is here, guys. Cameron and his wife were my own wedding photographers in 2016.
- [04:42]
Cameron Philgreen
We got some history.
- [04:43]
Lindsay Roman
We have some history. I also have to say this is so every time I tell the story of like, because I talked to like obviously photographers a lot and everyone's like well what did you do for your wedding? And I explained that we did our entire wedding for I think 7 or 8k total. And everyone's like, literally how? And I was like, well it was 2016 so that helped. But I remember this is maybe just shooting you under the bus right off the bat. I remember you charged us $1,000, and I think it was full coverage. And I remember. Yeah. For both you and Danny. And I remember because I had just. I don't even think I had started my business or maybe I just had. Okay, maybe I had just started. And I remember the steal that that was. And I was like, I do not.
- [05:29]
Cameron Philgreen
Remember it being that low, but great. I'm super glad we did it, though. That's awesome.
- [05:34]
Evie McLeod
He's like, I don't know if I should have done that.
- [05:36]
Cameron Philgreen
But, yeah, it's all good.
- [05:39]
Lindsay Roman
It's all good.
- [05:39]
Cameron Philgreen
We live and learn.
- [05:41]
Lindsay Roman
You were incredible. We loved you guys so much. And it was so fun because I remember you had just got engaged to Dani, I believe, and so you weren't together. Like, obviously you weren't married yet, but she was your second shooter. It was just so cute.
- [05:52]
Cameron Philgreen
That was beautiful. Beautiful day, too.
- [05:53]
Evie McLeod
It was great.
- [05:54]
Lindsay Roman
Amazing. Well, beautiful. It rained, but other than that.
- [05:57]
Cameron Philgreen
Yeah. On a Monday. I remember you was a Monday wedding.
- [06:00]
Lindsay Roman
It was a. Oh, yeah. The lore goes deep.
- [06:02]
Cameron Philgreen
I love it. The lore goes deep.
- [06:05]
Lindsay Roman
Anyway.
- [06:06]
Evie McLeod
Well, we love it. Cameron, we are so excited. You are a wealth of knowledge that we're going to hopefully pull buckets and buckets from. So are you kind of willing for anyone who maybe doesn't. Obviously you have experience in wedding photography, but you also have experience in several other things. Are you kind of willing to just, like, give an overview, introduction of, like, hello, here's my multifaceted life?
- [06:30]
Cameron Philgreen
Totally. Totally. So kind of put myself through college doing wedding videography. Kind of started with video and started doing it very inexpensive. I mean, I did a couple for free. Did one for, like 100 bucks. And then I remember getting paid $1,000 for the first time as, like, a sophomore in college. And I was like, this is what I'm going to do. So it was just really exciting. And then. And then now that seems, like, low.
- [06:53]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [06:54]
Cameron Philgreen
Anyway, so started doing that, put myself through college, landed at the end of college with a business degree and very little debt, and just kept doing wedding photography and, well, transitioned to photography shortly after college of. During college. And now we do, like, only photos, very little video, and, yeah, I just loved it. And then I met my wife, and she second shot for me, and I was like, dang, you got an eye for this. You know, let's do this together. And then we started kind of dating, and then we got married. And when we got married, we Quit our, you know, restaurant jobs and started doing wedding photography full time. Danny took it to another level. My wife, aesthetically, and just kind of like, you know, forming some strategy around Instagram and social media. She just made everything better, honestly. She's just awesome. And so then we, I mean, kind of fast forward a couple years of marriage. I discovered real estate investing. And you know, we had kind of had some conversations about how we want to be able to move around and be free. And my, my aunt was like, listen, you should buy a house. There's no reason not to. We're like, well, what if we want to move in a year? Because that's the, that was the fear. And she's like, you can, you know, you can rent out the house or you can sell it, and as long as you didn't buy too high, like, you know, there's no, you shouldn't be scared of that.
- [08:20]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [08:21]
Cameron Philgreen
And so we decided to buy a house. And it was right around that same time I was getting the real estate investing bug. Just podcast, YouTube, books, reading a lot about it, and literally, you guys. And I want to encourage all of you that, you know, are like, maybe you haven't even thought about buying your own house. Like, it's one of the best decisions we ever made because, I mean, it's, it was so approachable. I mean, lenders and realtors, they make it so easy for you, for one. And I want to encourage you just to look into it at least, because, you know, we lived in that house for two years, we ended up renting it out for three. You know, we're making five or six hundred dollars every month from Texas. We had moved to Texas and then we sold it after five years of owning it and profited $110,000 tax free because we had lived there. And that's just like one deal. That's just like one real estate deal that we had lived in. And it's so doable for anybody, especially if you do, I mean, if you just have like a part time or full time job. I know a lot of your audience is wedding photographers. It's just so much more doable and approachable than you think. Anyway, so just to finish the story, we moved to Texas, moved to Waco to be a part of a church here called Antioch. And ever since moving here, honestly, we've just been adding to the real estate portfolio. We have 26 units and we're under contract on eight more. And it's a blast. And a couple of those units is a, a commercial building and so we have a coffee shop too, called For Keeps Coffee. And I have two kids and one on the way. And so it's kind of a long. The long short, you know, long story short. But that's kind of my story. And we're loving life, man. Life's good.
- [10:11]
Evie McLeod
That's so good.
- [10:12]
Lindsay Roman
Amazing. Oh, I love that you just took that like us on that journey from like, college videographer turned photographer, and then just like the journey of how you got into real estate, which is obviously what we're gonna really dive into. And I, I love talking to you, especially for our audience, just because it's, I think, your journey they could almost picture themselves in. Especially because not that every listener is a photographer, but it's something that is.
- [10:39]
Evie McLeod
The creative entrepreneur space.
- [10:40]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah, it's. It's an easy business to get into. And I think when people think of real estate, and I don't know if it's just the real estate world, it seems complicated if you're not in it. And maybe it's even complicated if you are in it. I'm not sure, but, like, it just seems like this thing that's like, oh, it's financial. It's like really, like, complicated. And I think people don't know how to even start or how to even then, like, what look for. What to look for to make money. So I like that you shared that story. So that, your story, when you bought that first house that was your own home, you said. Right?
- [11:15]
Cameron Philgreen
Yes.
- [11:16]
Lindsay Roman
And then when did you just. So I'm understanding you started renting it out and you moved, but you kept like, you didn't sell the house after two years. After two years.
- [11:24]
Cameron Philgreen
Two years, yeah. So there is a tax rule. And can I just speak to the whole, like, you know, high walls around the garden, like people. Yeah, I mean, it's. People use big words like roi and noi and, you know, I don't know, like, they, they want to keep people confused because, you know, there's big money in the game. But it's really not as complicated as you think. I mean, just read a couple books, you know, how long does that take? And you'll feel like a pro, or you'll at least get the nomenclature a little bit better. It's just way more approachable and way easier than I think a lot of people think. So just food for thought. Yeah. So there's a tax rule where if you live in a house for two out of any five year period, you can sell the house tax free, up to $250,000 gain. And not pay a capital gains tax on that if you're single. And then I think it's 500,000 if you're married. And so we weren't even close to that. But I found out about that rule. I was like, great. We felt like the Lord was calling us to move to Waco right around that two year mark. I was like, let's just wait till July, the two year mark, move to Waco, rent the place out, you know, and see how it goes. Let's see if we even like the landlording thing. Let's see if we like, you know, who doesn't like mailbox money, like drop the rent check every month. And you know, we did. And by the way, during our time there, we also Airbnb one of the rooms in our house. We shared the bathroom with our Airbnb guests, which led to some funny stories. And not everyone's willing to do that. And I don't blame you for, you know, wanting your privacy in your own home, but we still do that. We, we have like tenants in my house right now. And we love it. You know, it's great. Passive income, relatively passive income. Anyway, so that's the tax rule. And if you. So we sold right before year five ended and we were able to take those gains tax free.
- [13:29]
Evie McLeod
I love it.
- [13:29]
Lindsay Roman
Amazing.
- [13:30]
Evie McLeod
Okay, I want to dive into the deep end. Cameron, I want you to kind of give us a good solid, like what is a starting point for the photographer who's currently listening right now, who's like, I have loved the concept of investing in real estate. I don't know where to start. I don't know what to do. It feels like really daunting. Like we mentioned, is there like a thought that you have a recommendation? Would you encourage that kind of like purchase your own home and kind of treat that as more of an investment while you live there? Or would you encourage like another method? Do you have thoughts on that? We can also talk about like the, the brrr method, like how that'd be.
- [14:17]
Cameron Philgreen
That's a little more like, I'd say advanced. So let's talk about where you should start and then we can talk about what I do now, which is love it. Incredible. It's like, I can't believe that you can do this kind of stuff. I love it. Yeah. So I mean, like I said, the barrier to entry now is like so low to buy a house. Like there's first time home buyer programs and blah, blah, blah. So go out and. Well, first of all, you know, you should save up Some money. It depends on where you live. But, like, our first house, man, I think we brought $6,000 to the closing table, which was, like, 5% down. You know, we paid $125,000. So it was just very, you know, doable. I think that's doable for most people.
- [15:02]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [15:04]
Cameron Philgreen
So talk to everyone is. There's lots of realtors. I mean, if there's anyone, like, if there's anyone pumping out content these days, it's your realtor friend from high school.
- [15:14]
Evie McLeod
You know, that's so true.
- [15:18]
Lindsay Roman
The accuracy.
- [15:20]
Cameron Philgreen
Reach out to those people and, you know, find out what it takes. And trust me, they'll be excited. They'll be stoked to talk to you. So start there and save up some cash, look at some houses, and they'll really guide you. They'll really hold your hand. And I do think it's important you asked, should you just jump into investing? No. Personally, I think step one is to get your own house, to learn what it's like to buy a house. Just learn the steps.
- [15:52]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [15:53]
Cameron Philgreen
And house hack. And house hacking is a relatively new term that was made up by a guy on the BiggerPockets podcast, and it's just living in a portion of the house and renting out the other portions. Okay, so this could be if you're single, you're living in a bedroom or even on the couch and renting out all the other bedrooms. Okay. Or if you're married, you rent a bedroom. I'm sorry, live in a bedroom. Rent out the other bedrooms. Maybe you put up a wall and add a little kitchenette and make it completely separate. You know, give them their own entrance, their own space, make a sort of duplex. You know, you haven't. There's lots of regulations happening around ADUs right now. Additional dwelling units. Jurisdictions are making it so much easier for people to, like, build an additional dwelling unit, like a back garage apartment or, you know, an attached apartment. You know, rent that thing out, and you'll probably nearly cover your entire mortgage payment. So people are out there renting for, you know, they're paying 900, $1,000 a month, $500 a month, and they have no idea that if you can buy a house and literally chop your housing payment to half in half or maybe even to zero. Like, we live in this, in our house for free because we have two tenants that pay our entire. All of our mortgage and utilities, and people don't even know that's possible because I don't really know why there's so much information out there about it now. But that's house hacking. I'd say start there, you know, see if you even like it. See if you, you know, get the lease template from one of your friends or from Biggerpockets or one of these other platforms. There's lots of YouTubers out there, you know, send the lease, like, sign it with them, like manage the property, see if you have what it takes, I guess, or if you like it, and then. And go from there and we can talk about what. How investment properties are different from primary residences.
- [17:58]
Lindsay Roman
Amazing.
- [17:59]
Evie McLeod
I mean, do you want to just segue?
- [18:01]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah, yeah. Into. Well, so are you currently doing the brrr, I don't know, how many hours are there method? Is that cheese?
- [18:09]
Evie McLeod
House hacking is what it sounds like, Right?
- [18:10]
Lindsay Roman
Well, you're doing well. Wait, question.
- [18:11]
Evie McLeod
Are you.
- [18:12]
Lindsay Roman
Do you have long term tenants in your home or is it like Airbnb guests?
- [18:15]
Cameron Philgreen
Good question. I wish I could just take you on a little tour, but we, we have one of eight. An appraiser told me there's eight basements in Waco.
- [18:24]
Evie McLeod
Oh, wow.
- [18:24]
Cameron Philgreen
Isn't that crazy? There's no basements here. Oh, wow. So we have one. It was built in 1950. And so we, we kind of like did a little renovation and we have a guy living in the basement month to month. He's a Federal Attorney. He's 60 years old. He's amazing. He's like the most clean cut dude. And then we have another gentleman. Well, our garage apartment is rented month to month, and we find tenants on a platform called Furnished Finder. Because it's furnished and these, you know, it's usually traveling. Nurses want a nice place to stay. That's not a hotel. They have a big budget. So he pays $1,800 to a month to stay in there. And in our basement, guest pays 800. And so I'm giving you real numbers, guys.
- [19:07]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [19:09]
Cameron Philgreen
And our mortgage payment is 1500, y'all. It's crazy.
- [19:12]
Evie McLeod
I love it.
- [19:14]
Cameron Philgreen
Okay, so. So that's like my house. And house hacking is, again, not for everybody. A lot of people have security concerns or they just want their privacy, and that's totally fine. So if you don't want to do that, but you want to invest in real estate. Yes, I do a method called the BRRR method, which is buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat. And this is incredible. I'll try to make it concise and simple because I don't want you to be like, oh, that's not. That's not for me. Like, that sounds too Complicated. It's really not. The hardest part of the BRRRR method is finding a good deal.
- [19:55]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [19:56]
Cameron Philgreen
I mean, and a lot of deals on the multiple listing Service, the mls, Zillow, like when I say deal, I just mean a house.
- [20:06]
Evie McLeod
Right.
- [20:06]
Cameron Philgreen
A lot of houses on Zillow are priced basically as high as they can go. Right. So usually Zillow is going to be for people looking to move into a house. They're paying what's called a retail value. With the BRRRR method, you want to get a house at a discount. Okay, so, so like 30% less than it might sell on Zillow.
- [20:30]
Lindsay Roman
Are you intentionally looking for like a dump?
- [20:33]
Cameron Philgreen
Yeah, yeah.
- [20:35]
Lindsay Roman
Like something that you would want to like flip or renovate.
- [20:38]
Evie McLeod
Says buy rehab, right?
- [20:39]
Lindsay Roman
So, yeah, yeah, that's where I got that.
- [20:41]
Cameron Philgreen
Yeah. And rehab could mean a lot of different things. That could mean, hey, let's just get their stuff out of there and paint it. Or it could mean, you know, we need to take this thing down to the studs and completely like renovate and, you know, full gut renovation, where you're pulling permits. Permits and getting a construction crew involved. So that can mean a lot of different things. But it ultimately comes down to. It's really just a math problem. Okay. You're trying to get the house at basically a 25% discount if you can. And I'm trying to make this simple. It's kind of difficult without having like a piece of paper in front of me or in front of you. But essentially. So the math problem, it's called the 75% rule. It's the. What is the house going to be worth after. After it's repaired? That's the after repair value. So let's say that value is $200,000. Okay, we're getting in the weeds now.
- [21:34]
Evie McLeod
You guys know I love it.
- [21:37]
Lindsay Roman
Just to clarify, is 200 what you would buy the house? No, no, that's aftermarket question.
- [21:43]
Cameron Philgreen
This is after it's fixed up. If it was. If it were to sell on the retail market on Zillow, what would it sell for once it is renovated?
- [21:53]
Lindsay Roman
How do you know that number if you're just looking for like a dump to buy?
- [21:57]
Cameron Philgreen
Great. I keep telling you. Yeah, no, they're usually dumps. They're usually dumps because there's usually a reason that it's not going to sell on the market. Right. It's some sort of pain. They have to sell quick because they're moving or divorce or foreclosure or whatever. There's usually some sort of pain involved, unfortunately, which is awesome, because we get to help them. You know, we get to help them get out of their rough situation. Okay, so the way you find that number is usually your realtor friend who's pumping out content on Instagram. You know, like, reach out to them. They're going to pull comparable properties comps. They're going to look at properties with the same bed, bath counts, approximate same square footage that sold on the MLS within the past, like, three months. And what did those properties sell for? Well around $200,000. And what do they have? Granite countertops. They have, you know, tile bathroom. They have tile surround bathroom. They have a new kitchen with white cabinets, blah, blah, blah. And that's all the stuff. You just copy that. Okay, so back to the math problem. If that number's 200, we want to get so that we're all the way into the property at 150,000. Okay, 75% of the 200. Why? Because the banks will lend you that 75%. They're gonna. Yeah, we'll get there. Okay, so we buy the house. How much work does it need? It needs $50,000 of work, so we need to buy that house for 100. Okay, so let's. Let's just talk about this. This is easy. It's so much easier than it probably sounds. Okay, so you go and look at the house. Oh, it looks like it's probably gonna need $50,000 of work. If you're not sure about that number, you know, get with a contractor like Google Contractors in my area, and you'll find something, and they'll tell you how much work it needs. Okay, 50,000. And the house is going to be worth 200,000 when it's fixed up. Those are the only numbers you need is ARV and the repair cost. Okay, so we buy the house for 100. If you can get it for 100, you got a deal. Okay, we put $50,000 into it. So buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat. We buy the house for 100. We put 50 into it. Now we're 150 all in. Go ahead, Lindsay.
- [24:20]
Lindsay Roman
I have a question. Did you buy the 100k dump in cash or no?
- [24:25]
Cameron Philgreen
Such a good question.
- [24:27]
Evie McLeod
Should we also leave that or. Yeah, because we could follow up with, like, cash or not.
- [24:32]
Cameron Philgreen
Okay, good question.
- [24:34]
Lindsay Roman
Because you do either.
- [24:35]
Cameron Philgreen
Good question. Let's. There's a few different ways you can buy houses with other people's money, with the bank's money or with your own money, right? Okay, you want to go here right now?
- [24:47]
Lindsay Roman
I Mean, I say finish the equation. Let's wait.
- [24:50]
Evie McLeod
I say finish.
- [24:51]
Lindsay Roman
I just was trying to be thorough, but I now see that that's opening up another can of investing worms. So let's like pause that.
- [24:57]
Cameron Philgreen
Yeah, we can go deep on lending and other people's money and stuff, but yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. But let me.
- [25:04]
Evie McLeod
Yeah, finish your equation.
- [25:06]
Lindsay Roman
You bought it somehow. You've bought 100k house somehow and now you've put 50k also somehow into. Yeah, somehow.
- [25:14]
Cameron Philgreen
Yes. Yeah. So now we're $150,000 all in. We rent the house out. You know, posted on. I'm just giving you the, that, you know, the step by step. Post it on Facebook, post it on Zillow. You will get people knocking down your door to rent the place. Especially if it's like, you know, if it looks good, if you've got good photos, hello photographers, and if the, if the like price is good. So rent the place out and then somewhere in there you're going to contact a bank or a lender to give you a 30 year, you know, 30 years ideal at least these days with higher interest rates. 30 year note based on the performance of the rental property. Now you're like, I don't make enough money. I can't get a, or I, you know, I can't get a loan. Well, good news, you don't have to make a lot of money to do this because there's loans out there that are based on the performance of the house itself. They're not looking at you as an individual, they're looking at the house. And those are called DSCR loans, Debt Service coverage ratio loans. So if you want to do this, just come back and listen to this podcast and these are probably terms that you're like, I'm going to forget that. But just come back and listen. DSCR loan. Okay. And it's just making sure that basically the rent on the property is going to cover the mortgage payment. That's all it is.
- [26:35]
Evie McLeod
I have.
- [26:35]
Cameron Philgreen
If it does, go ahead.
- [26:37]
Evie McLeod
Just quick follow up question.
- [26:39]
Lindsay Roman
You're saying the, it's the refinance. We're on the refinance category of the.
- [26:43]
Evie McLeod
R. My question though is just for clarification with the rental, you're saying to go in a lender bank, whatever, for them to see how the rental has been performing. Is there a specific length of time that that rental needs to be performing at that price range for you to go for the DCVR to refinance?
- [27:01]
Cameron Philgreen
Great, great question. Some lenders do have. It's called a seasoning requirement. Others may not. So that'd be a question to ask lender to lender. And by the way, shop these things. Like, every lender is different. They can all. Some people are gonna have way better rates and terms and fees than others. So shop it. I mean, call 10 lenders and pick your favorite. Okay, so, yeah, going as quickly as I can. I'm trying to get through the weeds, like, the details, and then we just.
- [27:28]
Lindsay Roman
Keep throwing other weeds in. I, I, before you unfortunately, move on, I do have a. Just a clarified question because, again, I'm like, I'm probably the perfect person because, like, I. Andrew knows a lot about real estate. I know, like, a good chunk because our friends are flippers and like, but, but like, I don't know what you know at all. And so. And I'm probably, like, a good middle ground for our audience. Possibly they might not know more than me. Maybe. I don't know. Whatever. Anyways, when you're talking about refinance, because you. Well, maybe that deals with my first question, which was, did you buy it in cash or not?
- [27:58]
Cameron Philgreen
Yes. Yeah, that's a good. We should go there.
- [28:00]
Lindsay Roman
Well, when you could you explain what refinancing is? That's basically my question. Just for anybody that's like, wait, what does that mean?
- [28:08]
Cameron Philgreen
Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So if Lindsay gives me $20 and I'm paying 10%, let's say, let's say 20% on that $20, you know, 20% a year? What is that, like, four bucks a year? Of the 20? That's intense. That's like, a lot. That's a pretty high interest rate. But she gave it to me, like, without hardly asking any questions. Now, Evie is going to pay off, basically give me the same $20, but I'm going to pay her 1%. I'm going to pay her, you know, 50 cents a year, and that's a lot better for me.
- [28:46]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [28:47]
Cameron Philgreen
So I just. Evie basically pays Lindsay the rest of.
- [28:51]
Lindsay Roman
What you would owe me.
- [28:52]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [28:53]
Cameron Philgreen
Yeah. And then perhaps I pay the $4 or whatever. It's just one bank paying off another bank or one person paying off another person. So that's what refinancing is. That's really all it is. Beautiful. People want it to sound complicated. And there are terms, interest rates. There's something called points, which is basically fees that you pay. But that's all it is. It's just a bank paying off your initial lender. So now we can go into how.
- [29:20]
Evie McLeod
To buy if you want yeah, yeah, let's do it.
- [29:23]
Lindsay Roman
Well, here, before we, before we go there. Just, just. So that was buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat.
- [29:30]
Cameron Philgreen
Yeah.
- [29:30]
Lindsay Roman
So what, what is like, once you've gone through that process with a single house, what is actively happening at the end of it? Does that make sense? Like how much, obviously how much depends on whatever the deal was. But like you refinance to basically have the mortgage be lower and then your tenants rate or your tenants are paying way more. Is that correct?
- [29:53]
Cameron Philgreen
Yeah, yeah.
- [29:54]
Lindsay Roman
Essentially making money.
- [29:55]
Cameron Philgreen
But there's more happening than that. I mean, what's beautiful about buy and hold, that's what we call this. We're buying real estate and we're trying to hold it for a long time, is that you have the cash flow. Cash flow is just profit that comes from the property. It's the rental income minus your mortgage payment. To put it in simple terms, okay, that could be 500 bucks a month. That's like life changing for a lot of people to have $500 a month passive that you didn't do anything for that. It's just, you know, they're sleeping at the house and you know, renting the house and it's mailbox money. So that's beautiful. And then you have, obviously everyone knows what appreciation is. Houses are going to go up. At least in the long run. They're going to go up, you know, 4, 5, 6, 7% a year, more or less. And then you have tax benefits, which is really in the weeds. You know, read a book, maybe don't listen to me about tax benefits and depreciation and how you can write off huge amounts of your, your active income through real estate. Okay. And then, I mean, yeah, that, that pretty much covers. And you have principal pay down. We should talk about that. I mean, every payment you make toward the house, that balance is going down bit by bit. So it's beautiful. Buy and hold real estate.
- [31:14]
Lindsay Roman
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Lindsay Roman
Cool.
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Evie McLeod
I got you. The templates come already SEO optimized with copy prompts from Lindsay and I included. Yeah, you don't just get nonsensical filler text. You get bomb education and prompts from Lindsay and I to help you wow your potential clients and crush your website copy. And we designed a variety of these in different styles so you can find the closest match and then tweak it to make it.
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Lindsay Roman
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- [33:30]
Evie McLeod
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Lindsay Roman
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- [34:11]
Evie McLeod
I love it. Can I throw in there really quick just from my knowledge and Experience in real estate investing in this area?
- [34:18]
Cameron Philgreen
Yeah.
- [34:19]
Evie McLeod
I think a lot of people initially think with like investment properties that they're going to make a lot of money in monthly cash flow from investment properties. But often I have found, and I would be curious, Cameron, if you agree with this, often one property on like your monthly cash flow, especially when you're considering any repairs, maintenance, you know, insurance, things like that, it's really not like you're not probably from one property bringing in, you know, buku bucks. However, it's the combination when you start to get into this like the Burr method and having multiple properties as well as one of the biggest things is the appreciation and so it's a long term investment for yourself.
- [35:00]
Cameron Philgreen
Would you agree with that 100%? Yeah. It's not today money, it's tomorrow money.
- [35:04]
Evie McLeod
Because I think that's the thing. A lot of people when they, when they look at real estate, it can be one of those things where especially if you are looking at, you know, a rental property or something like that, it's very easy to look at it after all expenses, after you run all the calculations, after all the payments, whatever, it's easy to be like 300amonth or 500amonth, like is this worth it? But you have to look at the big picture of multiple doors, multiple units, properties, or the long term depreciation. Because even that alone, even if you're like, okay, I'm making 200amonth on this property and some months, you know, I had an unexpected expense and that 200 went away. But in five years I'm going to pull 110,000 like you, you know, you experience. Yeah, that's huge. Yeah.
- [35:50]
Lindsay Roman
I have two follow up questions from this. Why hold versus just renovate and flip? So that's the first question, hold space for that. And then the second one, oh, it's, it's running out of me. Maybe answer that one while I think about the other one. Like what, why? And maybe that's a weed question or like a whole rabbit trail of like why don't you just buy it and flip it and then sell it? Why do you do the Burr method?
- [36:18]
Cameron Philgreen
Good question. So, so there's nothing wrong with flipping. Definitely flip. Do it. I think it's today money. You know, it's like, it's like day trading on the stock market. You buy low, you sell high. Great. You did it right. But if you hold that stock or that whatever for 10 years, like you're gonna make so much more money. And it's just a patience game. So, you know, and. And flipping. You might make $50,000 flipping a house. If you had held that house, it would have kicked you 200, 300, 500 bucks a month. If you can hold it for 10 years, you're gonna make 200, $300,000 on that house.
- [36:58]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah.
- [36:59]
Cameron Philgreen
So, okay, that's a valid, you know, the difference between 50 grand now and 300 in six, seven, eight years.
- [37:08]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [37:09]
Cameron Philgreen
So plus the. I get all the other things like tax benefits and principal pay down and stuff.
- [37:15]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [37:15]
Lindsay Roman
Oh, that was a beautiful answer. And I remembered my second question. When you're doing the burn method, because of what kind of Evie said, which is, I feel like, realistic of like, you. You don't make a lot of money for today. Like, it's. It's like the 200, 300, maybe 500amonth, whatever. Yeah, it obviously given that, like, it is a long term investment. Do you recommend to people that are doing the Burr method? Do you recommend that they do multiple? Like, does it come with the territory of, like, if you do it, you kind of need to do multiple? Or could you just do one? Does that make sense?
- [37:46]
Cameron Philgreen
You can totally just do one? I think once you do one, you're gonna get the bug.
- [37:51]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah, yeah.
- [37:51]
Cameron Philgreen
And all your systems are down. I mean, the first one is the hardest. You're gonna. You're gonna make mistakes. You probably. You might lose money. I mean, I don't want to scare you all away, but it's not like, it's not necessarily easy, especially the first time. But then once you do it, you're like, oh, I have the contractor. I have my initial. We can talk about this. Lindsey, my initial lender, who's going to help me buy the house to begin with. I know exactly the bank I'm going to use. I know how to find tenants. I have the lease template in my Dropbox. Like, you know, it's all ready to go. So, like, why not repeat? You can even have someone else do all this stuff if you're too busy. You know, you can have an assistant do all of it. It's just checklist items.
- [38:34]
Lindsay Roman
So I guess the last R is repeat. So kind of that was a given.
- [38:38]
Cameron Philgreen
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [38:40]
Evie McLeod
I love it. Okay. Financing, lending.
- [38:44]
Cameron Philgreen
Yeah.
- [38:45]
Lindsay Roman
Tell us how to buy a house with zero money of our own.
- [38:48]
Cameron Philgreen
Okay. All right.
- [38:51]
Lindsay Roman
People don't know this.
- [38:53]
Cameron Philgreen
Yes. Okay. There are hundreds of lenders out there that are looking for people like you and me to give money to. Okay. Once you have a deal, basically you hop online and find you can. It's Probably a hard money lender is what you're going to be looking for. Hard money is basically fast, higher fees, usually only like 12 months or 24 months. You're paying interest only, you know, so it's, it's designed for stuff like this. It's designed for flippers or people that are just going to fix up a house and then refinance into an amortized loan. So that's like way number one and probably the easiest way to like get someone to buy the house for you. Now they are, and I'll talk about the next like some other stuff later in a second. But they're going to require 10% down to buy, but then they'll cover 100% of the rehab. Okay. I haven't, in my lifetime, I haven't seen there used to be hard money that would do 100, 100, but they don't do that anymore. It's just too risky. So you will need to bring 10% to the table. Now you can borrow that 10% from mom or dad or from your brother or sister or from your cousin or from your rich aunt. You know, just ask them like, will you cover this 10%? Here's the plan. Here's what I'm gonna do with this house. You know, here's the rehab budget. Just do a one page PDF about the house and they'll, they'll absolutely give you, help you out.
- [40:30]
Lindsay Roman
They're getting that money back?
- [40:32]
Cameron Philgreen
Oh yeah. They're gonna get the money back whenever you refinance with the bank.
- [40:35]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [40:35]
Cameron Philgreen
So hard money, just to give you an idea, they're gonna want between 12 and 15% interest. They're going to charge points, which is like usually 1 or 2% of the loan itself down the drain. That's how they get paid. Okay, so that's not ideal, right? Those terms are rough. It's not, it's not great. So let's talk about what at least what I do now and what you should or could do now. I've used hard money seven, eight, nine times. It's fine, it's great. But it's expensive. So what I would try to do if I were you and you want to have zero of your own cash in the deal, let's say you're literally broke, but you have a really good deal. Okay.
- [41:19]
Lindsay Roman
And you have a good personality. And you have a good personality.
- [41:22]
Evie McLeod
What is that?
- [41:24]
Lindsay Roman
You have to. No, because you have to in order to make deals. I feel like you have to have a good.
- [41:30]
Cameron Philgreen
Definitely.
- [41:30]
Lindsay Roman
I mean, listen, you can't just be A bum.
- [41:34]
Cameron Philgreen
I mean, let's think about if you have $200,000 to lend out, who are you going to give it to?
- [41:39]
Lindsay Roman
Not the bum.
- [41:40]
Cameron Philgreen
Not the bum.
- [41:41]
Lindsay Roman
So, yeah, a good personality.
- [41:44]
Evie McLeod
Okay.
- [41:44]
Cameron Philgreen
Yeah. So, I mean, a lot of y'all, a lot of your audience might have an Instagram following, like Ask. You'd be surprised if you post on Instagram, hey, I have this deal. I need $200,000. I'm gonna pay 12%.
- [41:57]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah.
- [41:57]
Cameron Philgreen
You know, you're gonna get it back in six months, but the note will be for 12 months or whatever. Like, people will. Will message you excited about that because their money's sitting there making 5%.
- [42:07]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [42:08]
Cameron Philgreen
So they're excited. It's an opportunity for them. You know, you're not begging for money. You're giving them an opportunity to make more money.
- [42:14]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [42:15]
Cameron Philgreen
So friends and family, relatives, you know, Instagram audience, those are all places that you can find lenders. These are people that, you know their name, you know, they're not banks. And ask them to cover 100% of the purchase and 100% of the rehab, and they will.
- [42:35]
Evie McLeod
I love it. I love it. Okay, Cameron, what's within this conversation specifically of, like, financing your. Your dealer purchasing it? Do you have an opinion or a thought, especially maybe for beginning. For somebody, like, first getting into their first investment property, do you strongly recommend one way or another of either investing their own money or someone else's? Do you have thoughts on that?
- [43:03]
Cameron Philgreen
Everyone has a different opinion on this.
- [43:05]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [43:05]
Cameron Philgreen
I mean, Dave Ramsey versus the world, basically.
- [43:12]
Evie McLeod
You're not wrong.
- [43:15]
Cameron Philgreen
Dave. You know, Dave would say, hey, just save up. Save up the cash. You know, you're gonna be. You're gonna be much more careful with the deal and making sure it goes right. You might even be in there swinging hammers yourself because you want it to go right so bad if it's your money on the line. Yeah. Okay, that's an argument.
- [43:33]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [43:35]
Cameron Philgreen
But you're only as big as your own money. Then, like, you can't. You could never do two at a time. Right. You could never do three at a time. Your money's, like, locked up in this house for six or 12 months. So, I mean, personally, I'm a big believer in using leverage.
- [43:51]
Evie McLeod
Yes.
- [43:51]
Cameron Philgreen
So you're using 10% of your own cash so that you can use 90% of someone else's cash. Yeah. And, you know, theoretically, you could do that 10, 10, 10 times that amount or whatever. So, yeah, I'm a big. I'm a big believer in using debt and using Other people's money because it's just, you can just go further faster. You know, it's not that using your own cash is bad.
- [44:16]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [44:17]
Cameron Philgreen
Or wrong or whatever. It's just slower. You know, if you want to be able to do bigger stuff faster, I think, you know, using leverage, using debt, using other people's money is a good way to go. I love it.
- [44:29]
Lindsay Roman
Could you unpack? What. So say back to that example of we're buying the 100K dump and you, you, you maybe have 10K. Is that 10K? 10%. Yes. That's math. You have 10K for. Of your own money, but you don't have a penny more of this. And maybe you've saved up the 10k and you have that from your, your small business or your job, photography, whatever it is. When you're saying go to friends, family and write notes within them, are you asking like a single person to cover the 90, I guess, plus the 50 for the renovation, or are you asking multiple people to do smaller amounts?
- [45:08]
Cameron Philgreen
Oh, so I haven't done multiple people before, but like lots of people do that all the time for bigger projects, like $600,000. A lot of people don't have that amount of money sitting around. But you might know five people with, you know, 150 grand or whatever. That doesn't add up. But you know what I mean.
- [45:26]
Evie McLeod
Right.
- [45:26]
Cameron Philgreen
So yeah, I would just talk to one. One person just to simplify it. Especially these smaller deals, single family homes like that are 200, 300, maybe $400,000. I would just talk to, I would try to stick with one person just to keep things.
- [45:42]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah.
- [45:43]
Cameron Philgreen
Simple.
- [45:43]
Lindsay Roman
Just so you're not having. Because if you had multiple people, you have to keep track of all of those. And then when you refinance, you then have to like divvy it out.
- [45:51]
Cameron Philgreen
Yeah. Which is the way like, it's just. That's just like more advanced like that, you know, forming a. And then even more advanced is syndication and making a fund where people can, you know, invest in your fund, which anyway we're getting. Yeah, you can go deep, you guys, it's great.
- [46:08]
Evie McLeod
We really can. I don't know if this is a helpful question to ask for the potential listener. So Cameron, if you feel like this is not a good one, we can go a different direction. But for the person who maybe is really interested in diving into the brrrr method and like starting somewhere and you're talking about finding like a good deal and you know, a situation with foreclosure or xyz do you have tips, tricks, recommendations on how to find that deal? Because obviously it's not just sitting on Zillow. So do you have. Is that something that would be helpful for you to kind of talk about, like where to look for those good deals?
- [46:42]
Cameron Philgreen
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So there's hundreds of ways. Not hundreds, there's dozens of ways to find a deal. You can go knock on people's door. You know, let's say you find a. You can get ahold of a list online, maybe pay a couple bucks for a list of pre foreclosures, go knock on those people's doors. People are making millions of dollars doing this because they're helping people get out of foreclosure. And you get the deal and you can keep it and flip it or do whatever with it you want. Or you can do what's called wholesaling, which is where you have a deal and you know, somebody wants this deal. You know, let's say in our example we've done $100,000 dump. That's gonna be worth 200 once it's fixed up. Let's say you find that deal and you can buy it for 80, but you know, someone will want that deal at 100. Then you can basically sell that deal to someone else and profit the 20 grand. I've done this a few times and it's like, takes a few hours of work, but it's doable. So anyway, so you can knock on people's doors. You know, everyone knows about snail mail. Everyone's gotten a cold call asking if, you know, I'll buy your house for cash, blah, blah, blah. So there's all those ways. Direct to seller is what we call those. Okay, let's pretend you don't want to do direct to seller. You're afraid of people. You don't want to go knock on doors. Then you can connect with the people that do that. These are called wholesalers, and they're going direct to seller. They're getting the house under contract and you can buy that deal from them. Just like what I said, they have it under contract for 80, but you'll buy it for 100. So you buy it from the wholesaler for 100. And you know, those are those deals like don't go on market. They're not going to be on Zillow. They usually are houses that need a lot of work or, you know, there's some other reason why they're not going to be retail, you know, houses on Zillow. So to make it simple, sorry, that was a lot of information.
- [48:50]
Evie McLeod
So good.
- [48:51]
Cameron Philgreen
To make it simple, I would say, hey, hop on Facebook, hop on Instagram, hop on Google, go to a real estate meetup, and there's going to be wholesalers there, and they've got five houses under contract and they're trying to find buyers.
- [49:06]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [49:06]
Cameron Philgreen
And these are houses that if you run your numbers, you know, if you do the simple math that I just taught you about 30 minutes ago, then you know they're going to be really, really good deals. And you can flip and make. Make 20. Make 30,000 bucks flipping. Or do the Burr method, like, which is where you flip and then rent and hold it.
- [49:29]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [49:29]
Cameron Philgreen
Hopefully that's helpful.
- [49:30]
Evie McLeod
No, that was great.
- [49:31]
Lindsay Roman
That's so helpful. How much, if somebody wants to get into real estate, how much do they need to know about renovation or just like home, like construction in general? Because I feel like that could be like a mental block and some like, oh, I don't know anything about tile barrier or, you know.
- [49:47]
Cameron Philgreen
Good question. And one more thing on deals, you actually can. You can go and offer low, low ball offers on Zillow. If a house has been sitting on Zillow for 90, 120, 150 days, absolutely. Get a Realtor, go look at it, and offer $100,000 less than they're asking. You'd be surprised at how many. You know, if you do that 10 times or whatever, 30 times, you're bound to get one deal.
- [50:15]
Lindsay Roman
That's awesome.
- [50:16]
Evie McLeod
Love it.
- [50:16]
Cameron Philgreen
Okay. Construction. This is controversial.
- [50:24]
Lindsay Roman
We love a controversial question.
- [50:27]
Cameron Philgreen
Because I think that you can do the brrrr method without any construction knowledge. I've known many. I know a lot of people that do this, that flip houses and they don't know anything. Okay. So you can do it. I think it's just easier. You're bound to make less mistakes if you know a few things. I mean, this house that I fixed up, which is actually a great story, this house we fixed up by the magnolia silos, it was in 2020, 2021. Like, the guy was using PVC to do like, the plumbing supply, which I now know is like a. No, no. I mean, especially for the hot water side, because it could melt if it gets too hot from hot water. And I saw it and I kind of questioned it, but I didn't know enough to like, really confront him about it. And he ended up like, not being a licensed plumber and I had to fix a lot of stuff later. And so, like, those are the mistakes and those are the horror stories that keep people out of real estate investing. And I totally understand, but if you, so if you know a little bit, probably better if you have a friend who knows construction, you know, pay them 100 bucks for consulting, walk the house with you. That's a way to do it. But the, the construction guys with the logo and the nice trucks and blah, blah, blah, they're, they're not going to make those kind of mistakes. And so if you don't know anything, just make sure that you can afford a contractor that will get the work done and do it right.
- [51:58]
Evie McLeod
Licensed and insured. Yeah, typically.
- [52:01]
Lindsay Roman
Amazing.
- [52:03]
Evie McLeod
I love it. Okay, I'm curious, Cameron, on all of this because like we mentioned kind of at the beginning, real estate can feel daunting. And there are multiple methods. There's flipping, there's the brrrr method, there's, you know, buying your own, you know, residence and, you know, taking advantage of a, a first time homeowner's loan. Like there's, there's so many ways to do it. Do you have either resources yourself or books or podcasts that you're like these? Cause they're. Obviously we could talk about this for months and months, but is there something that you're like, hey, if you're serious about this, if you're really interested, either immediately or preparing for this, planning for this, do you have resources or recommendations for our listeners?
- [52:52]
Cameron Philgreen
So many. I mean, the book Rich dad poured out is what really got me, like kind of dressed up with nowhere to go. I would say that's what that book does for a lot of people.
- [53:01]
Lindsay Roman
I love that.
- [53:03]
Cameron Philgreen
That's amazing. It gives you like all this vision and so many good stories and you're like, okay, let's do this. But I don't know how.
- [53:09]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [53:09]
Cameron Philgreen
So after you read that, I'd say the book on rental property investing, I think that's what it's called. Brandon Turner is phenomenal. And that's what I mean. In 2020, we had two houses and we read that book, my wife and I, and we set the goal of 25 units by 2025. 25 by 25. And we read that book and started taking action. That's kind of key. And now we're at 26 units and it's the end of 2024. So this, I mean, that book was instrumental in us setting goals, taking action, you know, and learning the how to of real estate investing. Biggerpockets has a couple podcasts. The Real Estate Rookie is one of them. I honestly, I've never listened to it, but I think it's great for beginners if you want to get into this. And then my stuff, I mean, I'm putting out content for beginners and then some more advanced stuff on Instagram, and then I'm getting a YouTube channel and podcast launched as well right now called the Legacy Investor. And so you can listen to some of that.
- [54:17]
Evie McLeod
I love it.
- [54:18]
Lindsay Roman
I love that.
- [54:19]
Evie McLeod
So good.
- [54:19]
Lindsay Roman
Okay, we have some final questions kind of wrapping up, but you just said something that I. We have it on our question list that. That works. Well, we gotta ask it. Yeah, yeah.
- [54:28]
Cameron Philgreen
How.
- [54:30]
Lindsay Roman
How do you. I guess, like, when it comes to leaving a legacy in. In life, how do you specifically do that? Through wealth management and through your choice of doing real estate, I guess, amongst other things.
- [54:44]
Cameron Philgreen
Yeah. So, I mean, ultimately I want to leave a legacy of, like, I'm a follower of Jesus, and I just want to, like, leave the legacy of, you know, not just being a good person, but being obedient to him. So if he told us to, like, sell everything tomorrow, we would. And, you know, that's something I have to constantly put on the table, like, God, is this an idol in my life? Could I, like, we just got a new car. Like, could I, you know, if this got wrecked, if you asked me to give it away, could I do it? And I think that's, like, most important, and it's kind of. It sounds counterintuitive to leaving a legacy, but I want my legacy to be, like, you know, one of generosity and, you know, helping others and all of that. So that's like, number one. But I also want my kids to be hard workers. So bringing them into the construction sites, I make coffee with my kids, we cook together. We try to do everything with our kids. They're three and two, so it's kind of tough, but I'm trying to, as they grow up, just, like, bring them into everything, teach them to hopefully work hard, not just, like, give them everything they want. But yeah. And then as far as money goes, you asked, like, I don't really know yet. That's kind of what the podcast is about, is like, how do we steward this well and, you know, leave a rich inheritance to our kids, but not, like, ruin their lives. So one thing that we do, I will tell you that I got this idea from Brandon Turner, is we bought a rental property, a small rental property for each of our kids when they're born. We buy them like a 3:1 or 3, a 3:2 or a 2:1. And I do the brrrr method now. Yeah, I won't go into that. It doesn't matter how you buy it. But I would encourage everybody, if you want to leave your kids, you know, it could. It's probably going to be $400,000 in 15 years. What these houses are worth. And they'll be paid off. Yeah. For each of my kids. And they can take that and start a business. They can take that and go to college or whatever. And guess what?
- [56:48]
Lindsay Roman
Do their own Burbacks.
- [56:49]
Cameron Philgreen
They're saving that money. It's the tenants that are saving that money for me. And so it's awesome.
- [56:55]
Evie McLeod
It's not just sitting in a savings account either.
- [56:57]
Cameron Philgreen
Yeah.
- [56:58]
Lindsay Roman
I love it. That's so good.
- [57:00]
Evie McLeod
That's so good. Okay, one of our last questions, and you could answer this specifically for real estate if you want, but I know you have a myriad of other business experience between photography and coffee shop and Airbnb and all the things. But what is, like, one of the biggest lessons that you have learned either in business as a whole or in real estate specifically?
- [57:20]
Cameron Philgreen
Oh, man. So many things. I would say. Gosh, I would say the value of taking action is a big one. Yeah, that'd probably be, like my number one. That'd probably be my number one thing that I'd want to instill in not just your audience, but my kids.
- [57:40]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [57:41]
Cameron Philgreen
Is just like, hey, if you don't know exactly what you're doing, you know, kind of build the plane while it's falling is what I tend to do. Which is what? Yeah, it's kind of my whole life. It's awesome.
- [57:55]
Evie McLeod
But we get it. We do it, too.
- [57:58]
Cameron Philgreen
It's not fake it till you make it. It's just like, hey, you're not gonna know everything until, like, day one. And so just start, like, knock on people's doors, you know, get out there. Figure out a way to get yourself to get up and move. Stop reading books and listening to podcasts. Like, go out there and start doing stuff. I don't know if y'all have read Mel Robbins the Five Second Rule.
- [58:24]
Lindsay Roman
It's literally on our shelf right now.
- [58:26]
Cameron Philgreen
It's kind of a interesting concept. I don't know why this works, like, physiologically, but she said it changed her life. She just counts backwards out loud whenever she feels a prompting to do something. And it works. You count backwards, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. And then move your body and you will do that thing. It's kind of bizarre. So, like, that's one kind of random, mildly New agey book. That's great. Forgive me.
- [58:57]
Lindsay Roman
No, I love the.
- [58:59]
Evie McLeod
That's great specificity.
- [59:01]
Lindsay Roman
We need to know these things.
- [59:03]
Cameron Philgreen
But it's great. I use it sometimes just to, like, get out of bed or like, you know, just like, it changed her life. She has some really cool stories around it. So that's. I don't know, Just take action, y'all.
- [59:13]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah, Well, I also feel like in order to take action, you have to get out of your own way. Like, you can't just be sitting there in imposter syndrome or just like, woe is me self doubt. Like, if you have to go be the person that's knocking on these doors or like finding deals, it's like you can't be sitting there being like, well, but what if they don't? Like, who cares if they don't like you, don't go out there and do it like you.
- [59:34]
Evie McLeod
And they slam the door in your face. You're probably never going to see them again. Move on.
- [59:37]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah, but like, I think this is just maybe for all entrepreneurship, not even just specifically real estate. Obviously we're talking about that, but like, anything. I just love that you mentioned that because, like, everything business or even just life, like, you have to get out of your own head.
- [59:52]
Evie McLeod
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just do it.
- [59:54]
Cameron Philgreen
Yes. Yeah, yeah. 100%.
- [59:56]
Evie McLeod
Oh, I love it. Cameron, we could ask you a million.
- [60:01]
Lindsay Roman
We definitely need to have you back on to talk about a coffee shop, to talk about Airbnb, like, all the.
- [60:05]
Evie McLeod
Things about the next phase of real estate. This was like, like 101.
- [60:09]
Lindsay Roman
Well, this was really good for. Oh, yeah, me and all of us. I'm kidding. But like, it was, it was so good. Thank you so much for breaking down what can seem like complicated like terms in a very easy to digest way. We love it.
- [60:24]
Cameron Philgreen
Thank you. I hope it was easy to digest. It is. Yeah, it's good. Guys, go out and read some books and don't, don't just sit there and analyze. Get out there and read some books and then take action. And this thing, real estate investing really is amazing. If you're even mildly interested in it. I'd encourage you to read some books and learn.
- [60:43]
Evie McLeod
Amazing fun fact as we end this episode. I don't know if there's gotta be an actual stat, but I think majority, vast majority of the wealthiest people in the world have a majority of their wealth in real estate. And we got it via real estate. So don't sleep on this one, friends.
- [61:01]
Cameron Philgreen
Don't sleep. Don't sleep.
- [61:03]
Lindsay Roman
Amazing. Cameron, thank you so much for being here.
- [61:05]
Cameron Philgreen
Thank you.
- [61:05]
Lindsay Roman
Where can everyone. Where can everyone find you, stalk you.
- [61:08]
Evie McLeod
Learn from me, learn from you, learn from you.
- [61:09]
Lindsay Roman
All the things.
- [61:10]
Cameron Philgreen
Yeah. My personal Instagram where I post content about investing is CameronPhilgreen Instagram. And then CameronPhilgreen.com photography is the Phil Greens. And my coffee shop is called For Keeps. Coffee for Keeps, Underscore coffee, Instagram mostly.
- [61:29]
Lindsay Roman
Amazing.
- [61:30]
Evie McLeod
Oh, Cameron, thank you for your time and wisdom today. We appreciate it so much.
- [61:33]
Cameron Philgreen
Thank you, guys.