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The Heart & Hustle Podcast
416: Struggling to Convert Your Inquiries into Bookings? How to Stop Hearing “We Went with Someone Cheaper” - Coaching Call with Grace Trexel
01:13:02
Today we are sitting down with Grace Trexel for another live look at one of our coaching calls! Grace is a full-time midwest wedding and lifestyle photographer who loves capturing the real, authentic moments as the day unfolds for her clients....
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- [00:02]
A
You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are your hosts, Evie McLeod and Lindsay Roman. Welcome back to another episode. Today is gonna be super fun. We are doing another one of our coaching call episodes where we're live on a coaching call with one of our students and you just get a sneak peek. You get a behind the scenes. Well, you just get to attend the call really is what that is.
- [00:21]
B
Not even behind the scenes. You're just in on it.
- [00:23]
A
You're just there. You're just there. And so today we got to talk with Grace Trexel. She is a wedding and lifestyle photographer in Lincoln, Nebraska, in the midw. And Evie, do you want to break down what we talked about today?
- [00:35]
B
Absolutely. So Grace basically came on today's call and was just kind of sharing where she's at, which is in the position where she's getting inquiries but they're just not fully converting. A lot of them are coming back with the situation of oh, we went with someone a little bit cheaper or you're out of our price range, which all of us as photographers have probably felt that received that response and it can be very frustrating. So today we live call workshopped with Grace what she can do. We kind of went two different directions with the sales kind of the back end like what she's been doing once those inquiries get into her inbox kind of her process. And we switched and talked a bit about the forward facing marketing too of what is she is doing that is possibly attracting the wrong clients who are coming into her inbox and are maybe at a lower budget price point or not valuing her and her work and the, the experience and the value that she brings to the table. So we workshopped a lot of that as well as some of the foundational like marketing business brand 101, including Ideal client avatars and just understanding brand messaging general. There is a lot on today's call that we covered.
- [01:39]
A
We also went for the jugular with Barnes. Don't worry about it. You'll understand when you, when you keep listening. But it's a really good episode if you are a photographer or I would even argue if you are a service provider, especially in the wedding industry, but any service provider, I think you're going to get a lot out of today's call with Grace. And so without further ado, let's get into it. This is Lindsay. I want to share a vulnerable moment with you. Years ago, before I launched my first preset pack, something that genuinely held me back from doing it for way too long was the technical backend of how to do it. Like I know we all know that E commerce is a brilliant way to grow and diversify our business. But you know, whether you're a photographer wanting to sell presets like me, or a hormone health coach wanting to sell cookbooks, or honestly, literally anybody wanting to sell a physical or digital product online, knowing what platform to sell on is huge, right? So that's why when I started first selling my presets, I went with the obvious choice. Shopify. Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. And so whether you're selling shipping supplies or promoting productivity programs, Shopify helps you sell everywhere from their all in one e commerce platform to their in person POS system. Wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. Shopify even helps you turn browsers into buyers with the Internet's best converting checkout up to 36% better compared to other leading commerce platforms. And quick story, last fall I had been wanting to incorporate a membership subscription into my business for women to sign up and be a part of my insiders membership group. And I almost didn't do it purely because I didn't want to buy another program to process the subscription payments. And that's when I realized, wait, wait, wait, I use Shopify for my presets. Can they do subscriptions too? And what do you know with Shopify's endless list of integrations and third party apps, anything you can think of, from chatbots to subscriptions? Yes, they have everything you need to revolutionize your business. My subscription problems were solved with the brilliant side of Shopify. So sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.comheart all lowercase go to shopify.comheart now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in. Shopify.com heart hey hey. I'm Lindsay Roman.
- [03:49]
B
And I'm Evie McLeod and we are family and legacy focused serial entrepreneurs and the founders of the Hart University, a business education company with a mission to help you thrive in your business and life.
- [04:00]
A
Welcome to our Entrepreneur cocktail hour where business and marketing strategies meet faith, real talk and raw in life changing conversations.
- [04:06]
B
At the end of the day, we are all in this together figuring out how to navigate the ups and downs, the messy and the beautiful and everything in between. This is a community where you can come as you are, get inspired and walk away equipped to build a legacy filled life.
- [04:20]
A
You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast.
- [04:31]
B
Grace welcome to the Heart And Hustle Podcast. We are so excited to have you here today.
- [04:36]
C
Thank you, guys. I am so excited to be here. I'm so excited to chat and. Yeah, just hang out.
- [04:42]
A
Amazing. Okay, well, for. For to get us started. Explain who you are, what you do, where you're based, all the things.
- [04:50]
C
Yes. Okay. So I'm Grace Trixel. I guess that's probably important, too. I'm in Nebraska, so in the heart of the Midwest, and I'm a wedding lifestyle photographer. And this is my end of my fourth year, like, being full time, so it feels like a lifetime. But, yeah, here we are. I love it. Love what I do. I'm a mom to a little one, and then I have another one on the way, and, yeah, that's about my life right now.
- [05:16]
B
That's amazing.
- [05:18]
A
Well, congratulations.
- [05:19]
B
Yes, I love it. Well, we are about to dive into another live, like, coaching call podcast episode. So do you, Grace, want to kind of kick us off with, like, what is kind of your bottom line? Like, what are you hoping to get out of this conversation? Where are you currently at in business that you're like, I would love another set of eyes and brain, you know, on this situation, this problem.
- [05:46]
C
Yes. Okay. So it's kind of like, I feel like it's a big question because, like, yeah, since becoming a mom, I feel like I've had to take a little bit of a step back, which is totally great. But I just feel like there's been some kind of disconnect somewhere in my business between, like, when people inquire and I send them, like, pricing, we jump on a. And then I just have been getting, like, tons of, you know, just, like, emails of like, hey, we decided to go a different direction. Or basically, people just kind of saying, like, you're not worth the money. And. Which is totally fine. Like, obviously that happens, you know, all the time. But I just feel like it's something bigger and, like, I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I don't know if there's some. Some part of my business, my brand isn't communicating, like, what I want it to communicate. So that's kind of like, where, like, the issue is I feel like. And I, like, don't. I feel like I'm just too close to it. You know, I just, like, I don't know what, like, what I'm doing wrong or, like, where I'm kind of, like, missing. Missing those people. So.
- [06:43]
B
Yeah.
- [06:43]
C
Yeah.
- [06:44]
A
Are you getting lots of inquiries? But it's just in the converting that is like, the main Pressure point of like, what's kind of falling? Or is it also maybe an inquiry problem as well?
- [06:55]
C
I feel like it could be an inquiry problem. I haven't, I don't feel like I've been getting like a ton. Like, I don't know. I don't even know what is like a good number, but probably like 20, 30amonth. Maybe like that. Maybe less than that some months. Like, there's definitely weeks where I don't feel like I get any inquiries.
- [07:11]
A
Okay, I'll say, though I, I guess in comparative to like other students that we've talked to, a 20 to 30 isn't nothing. So like you're, you're doing something right on, on that front, obviously. Do you know your conversion rate? Like, like for how many inquiries you get? Even if it's just a feeling, like a ballpark feeling of like how many do you think you're booking based on? And that's actually something that I would look into. I would look. Do you use Honeybook?
- [07:40]
C
Yeah.
- [07:41]
A
Go into the back end of Honeybook. You can. It'll show you kind of like how many inquiries you got per month and then look at how many of those booked. And obviously that'll kind of give you like a general percentage. You can look at specific months and make an average throughout the month. Just to kind of give you a range of like. Okay, so you're aware, like, is it an inquiry problem or is it a converting problem? And it could technically be both. But that kind of tells us like, which. Because those are two separate issues in my opinion, that like the. If you're not getting inquiries, it's a marketing issue. So like, we need to focus on some marketing front end things. Although 20 to 30amonth, like, again, that's not nothing. That's. That's kind of a lot in my opinion.
- [08:21]
C
I don't feel like that's every month though. Like, I feel like it's probably like, I would say like 10 to 20 maybe is probably more the average. Like.
- [08:28]
B
Okay, still good.
- [08:30]
C
Yeah. But I only feel like I'm booking maybe one or two projects a month.
- [08:34]
A
Okay.
- [08:35]
C
So.
- [08:36]
A
Yeah, so that, so yeah, that, that maybe tells me that the, the maybe part of the issue could lie in the convert. Like the sales conversion versus the marketing. Not that, you know, there's nothing we can help with marketing, but that's, that's where I'm hearing. And then I know before we started recording, you've told us in the past. Did you say you're based in Nebraska?
- [08:57]
C
Yeah.
- [08:58]
A
Okay. Love that.
- [08:59]
C
Midwest Girl, someone's got to do it, right?
- [09:02]
A
Yeah. No, for real. Do you. Where, like, what is your demographic? Who do you like? What is your price point? Just general. And then are you trying to, like, make that different or, like, grow out of it or like, kind of like, what's the landscape with that?
- [09:19]
C
Yeah, so I feel like there. So I'm in Lincoln, which is not like the capital, but like, definitely one of the bigger cities. And like, the area is. There's a lot of venues that people really like. There's a lot of barns, which I'm not a huge fan of.
- [09:34]
A
Those dang barns. Especially in Nebraska when you're like a Nebraska girly, but you're not wanting to shoot in bars. Like, I feel the pain so hard.
- [09:43]
C
And there's some newer ones, which is great, that are like slowly popping up, but you know, it's slow, so. So there's that part of it. And then as far as, like, I just. I kind of feel like I'm just shooting a ton of barn weddings and I'm not like about that. E. Yeah. What was the other part of your question?
- [09:59]
A
Sorry, I'm like, what? So I mean, that kind of clarifies like a price point. Are you trying to up your pricing, hit a higher demographic of like, like higher price point weddings or anything like that?
- [10:11]
C
Yeah, I feel like I've been in the last like couple years just like in like the two to like 4,000, like, budget range and kind of like just getting above 5, I feel like has been the struggle.
- [10:22]
A
Okay.
- [10:23]
C
Yeah.
- [10:25]
A
Well, then it's probably like. Sorry, is it probably feels discouraging to raise your prices if inquiries aren't actively coming in. Because then you're like, well, because I.
- [10:34]
B
Always go saying, you're too high. And you're like, but I want to go higher.
- [10:37]
A
How is this? And so you're like, thank you so much for saying that I'm expensive to you.
- [10:43]
B
Okay.
- [10:43]
A
Sassy Lindsay's getting them out anyways. Continue.
- [10:47]
C
Yeah, I think that's about it. So.
- [10:48]
A
Okay.
- [10:49]
B
Yeah. Yeah, I love it.
- [10:50]
A
Cool.
- [10:51]
B
I was scrolling through your Instagram and I'm going to stop. So if anyone watching on oh please. Video was seeing me on my phone, I was actively doing marketing research.
- [11:02]
A
When we're doing coaching calls, we're just going to be on our phone and also listener, so you can learn. What is your handle?
- [11:08]
C
Grace. Just Grace trucks. All first and last name.
- [11:11]
A
We love that. So Grace spelled Grace and then T R, E, X, E, L. Yeah, just so everyone go follow her. Go shout her Out. She's incredible. Your work is stunning.
- [11:20]
B
It is gorgeous. It is gorgeous. We love it.
- [11:23]
A
So we may, we may hit on Instagram, but we may also pop over to like website emails, all the things.
- [11:28]
B
So the one thing I kind of want to say just as an overview is Lindsay had kind of mentioned if you're getting inquiries but they're not converting, there is a huge portion of that that goes into kind of the back end, the sales process. However, however, if you are getting inquiries that are consistently coming back to you and saying you're out of our budget or we went with someone cheaper or whatever, there is a very strong element of that that is also forward facing marketing.
- [11:56]
A
That's marketing to the wrong person.
- [11:57]
B
Yeah. That you're not showcasing your value on the front end. So that by the time they've inquired, the sales process is just to confirm what they kind of already feel and know that you're worth it and that you're the right photographer for them and that there's no doubt that they're willing to spend whatever dollar amount. So there's, it's almost like a two part story where there is a huge portion of it that is sales. Absolutely. And I feel like we should start just because I, I think that's like, I don't know that we've talked about it recently on a coaching call. So I feel like we can like start with sales because that's also just like so powerful and something that in the industry is like often overlooked because marketing can be such a big conversation. But then if we have time, I think we should definitely go into the marketing and like kind of COVID like some of the forward facing presentation before they even get to the sales process. So how does like that feel to you, Grace? That, that idea and that two part segment almost.
- [12:48]
C
Yeah, I think that sounds great. I feel like even just like when you were talking about the marketing, I could totally see that because I feel like a lot of my like the early days of my business were built on just like word of mouth referrals were like huge. Like the hugest. Like I have not done any, I haven't paid for marketing. Like I haven't done anything with that. And so I could definitely see where that could be something I like actually need to do now.
- [13:10]
A
Yeah.
- [13:10]
C
Just to kind of like reach the people that I want to.
- [13:13]
B
So yeah, I love it. Okay, well let's start maybe let's just like make sure this the back end, the sales like once they've acquired. Because you are getting inquiries.
- [13:22]
A
Yeah.
- [13:22]
B
Which is awesome. If you were not getting inquiries, marketing would be the first place to start. But you are getting inquiries. So it's like, okay, let's touch on the kind of the sales process. Once they've inquired, how do you showcase your value and expl. Like, you know, help them discern if you are the right investment for them or whatnot? So let's focus on that first, and then if we have the time, let's switch. Kind of like, okay, are we sure these are the right inquiries coming in? Are we reaching the right people? All of that.
- [13:49]
A
So here, before we dive in, could you give a breakdown of kind of your ideal client? When I say breakdown, I just mean, like, a. Like a short little summary. Yeah, I meant to make that seem, like, less intense, and it still sounded intense.
- [14:05]
B
Give us every detail in just a.
- [14:07]
A
Short, like, in general, because I know you said, like, I don't want to do barn, which, like, where they're getting married and what venue they're choosing is a piece of the ideal client. Right. It's not all of it, but it's a piece. So is there any past clients that you've had that you were like, oh, no, this is. This is it. I would want to shoot them forever and ever and ever?
- [14:29]
C
Yeah, definitely. I feel like they are the people who are just, like, so hard to verbalize, who are just, like, so excited to get married. They're like, wedding photos are super important to them. And to, like, have all of those memories of all of the people there, I feel like I definitely try to lean more into, like, that documentary, candid space. And so people who value, like, little moments, small moments, and they just, like, trust me, the creative process. Is that, like, the right.
- [15:05]
A
No, it is. It absolutely is. I would maybe encourage you. You don't have to say that now. This is maybe homework after this call to get a little bit more. Maybe not a lot more specific with that. Like, almost. I don't know if you've ever done this, but creating like, an ideal client avatar where you almost, like, create like, a character profile as if you were going to write a book. And this was, like, your main character, like, all of the. The, like, what age this person is, what they do for work, how much money they make a year, what their fiance does for work, hobbies.
- [15:35]
B
Are their parents.
- [15:36]
A
Are their parents helping pay for the wedding? Or are they, like, do they have good familial relationships? Where do they shop? What are they? A beer or wine, girly. And some of those might be like, wait, why do I need to know if she's a beer wine girly. But it's like the more details that you can kind of create around this character that, that obviously you're not. That doesn't mean every single bride or groom that you're photographing has to fall under this. If they don't. Oh, if they don't drink beer, I can't hire that. No, it's not like that. It's like it just gives you the words to speak directly to her. And maybe the beer and wine is probably not the best example.
- [16:11]
B
The biggest thing is with all of the details with an ica, it gives you as the business owner, as the marketing person, clarity on like, you are no longer feeling like you're speaking to this nebulous idea of this ideal client somewhere out there that, that you're like, I will this caption speak to them? Will me sharing about this thing in my life, like, reach them? Whatever. When you almost create a fictional character that is probably based, ideally would be based on maybe some real people in your lives or real past clients that you can like pull stuff from and be like, I this about them. They were like super, you know, X, Y and Z. Are we really connected on like this whatever. So you can pull those pieces in. It just gives you as the business owner so much clarity of like, I'm writing this caption for not this like nebulous, unknown mass of people. I'm speaking it to Jane in my head. My. This character that I've created.
- [17:04]
A
Yeah, she's maybe she's a nurse in Lincoln and she's just gotten engaged and her husband is, or not her husband, her fiance is a firefighter or you know, whatever. That kind of gives you a, a ballpark, you know, out income. But it's also, it's helpful to know like, what does Jane value? Like, does she value like, what is her core fear when it comes to like her wedding? Like, what if, if, if the biggest fear came true for her wedding day, what would that look like? Or on the flip end, if the biggest, like, if she absolutely like had the best day of her entire life and everything went perfect on her wedding day, what does that look like? And very specifically and obviously her like quirks and she is kind of make up that. But at the core, if you know who you're, who your like bride or your ideal client, ultimately, like what their biggest fear and what their biggest goal is for their wedding day, you can use that to speak directly to her to help convert in your website, in your pricing guide, in your Email exchange with her. And even then on the coaching call. Not the coaching call, sorry, the console call. It's like, because you know exactly where she is. And obviously because this is an ideal client, like Avatar, it's not absolutely every single person that you're going to talk to, there's an element of, like, taking context clues from their emails from their coaching, or I keep saying coaching call because we're on a coaching call from their consult call and like listening to them and then offering, you know, where your services match what they're wanting. But it helps just on the marketing end to even get those inquiries and then convert them by speaking their language. And in order to do that, you it, you need to not be like, generalized.
- [18:44]
B
Yes.
- [18:45]
A
If that makes sense.
- [18:46]
B
If it's helpful. Because I know we're kind of being like, you should create this. You're like, great, okay. How, when, where, what? For you, Grace, and for anyone else who is listening, episodes 50 of the podcast and episode 138 both kind of dive into ideal clients and how to build those out. So if you kind of want some help on, like, the homework we're assigning you, Grace. Yeah. You can dive in to both of those episodes and that person will probably change. So even if you've done this in the past, like a couple of years ago, three years ago, whatever, four years ago, when you went full time, there's a strong chance that, like, that person now has changed and you're trying to, you know, bump into a slightly higher price bracket so that clientele might, like, have slightly altered as well. They're not the barn wedding folks who have, you know, a $2,000 wedding budget. You're trying to hit the $5,000. People who maybe aren't attracted to the barns, you know, or whatever. So that might change that client avatar as well.
- [19:36]
A
So I would even. This is. This still might be a facing, but it's, it's starting to get into like, the communication of the, the copy that you're using. So it's. It obviously starts on website, when people come to your website. And then it would continue like that same copy, maybe just in a different way to say it would be continued on your pricing guide would be continued in the email that you send, like the inquiry response email. But when you're, when you get so specific on who Jane, I'm just calling her, that is, you can say things like, if you don't want to shoot barn weddings, I would, I would even literally say on your website or pricing guide or something like, hey, if I'm your girl. If you are sick and tired of seeing all the barn wedding, like photos or, you know, something like that, because what that's. You can obviously word that in a more elegant way.
- [20:24]
B
I would definitely word that kinder and more elegantly.
- [20:27]
A
No, but you know what I'm saying, like the, the essence of like, I'm your girl. If you're maybe not over, but like, if you're wanting something, you could obviously describe it in the positive of what they're wanting or you could obviously describe it in the negative of what they're not wanting. So it's like if you're. I wouldn't say, like, if you're not planning a barn wedding, hire me. Obviously don't say that. But what. You're better with words. What's like an elegant way to say that?
- [20:49]
B
I would almost focus on what they do want and. And step just a touch away from what they don't.
- [20:55]
A
There's an element though, depending on your personality, maybe I can already tell. In a funny way, I feel like.
- [21:01]
B
Grace is not the person who's gonna. You're the person who would be like, screw the barn weddings. I can already. Grace is not the person.
- [21:08]
A
That's fair.
- [21:08]
B
That's fair.
- [21:09]
C
So I would to my clients. But.
- [21:11]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and actually I feel like you could do something fun and cool too, where you do some blog posts and you're like five wedding venues in Nebraska that aren't barns. Like, like, that is a way too to like.
- [21:23]
A
Because that's what people that would be your ideal client are searching. Yeah, well, I don't know if they're searching art, but I mean, maybe like.
- [21:30]
B
Is there non barn wedding venues in Nebraska? Like some like you could do that and I think you could say like up at the top, like, let's be real, like as beautiful and gorgeous whatever as like barn wed can be. And I love like some of the, you know, whatever. However, like, that is an overabundance in the market here. And I've spoken with many clients who are hoping for something different. Here's some options. Like, and that's a really great way to kind of be like, I'm over them too. And here's some options but like for actual like brand messaging, I would almost be like for the couple who wants X, Y and Z. For the couple who is looking for, you know, and just describe understated. Like understated luxury, luxury, modern, like words that you want.
- [22:11]
A
Documentary moments.
- [22:13]
B
Documentary moments that feel true to you in like, you know, a Beautiful.
- [22:18]
A
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
- [22:19]
B
Something that like kind of like subtly is like not, not the barn weddings that like don't use words like rustic or you know, anything like that. So I think you could definitely. I agree with Lindsay on like just being very clear and communicating that up front would be awesome.
- [22:35]
A
And then the other thing throughout what you're already doing this like your, your website is. I said this earlier. Your work is incredible. I would do an audit of your. All your photos on your website. All the photos on your pricing guide. Yeah, I guess those are the main two that they see before.
- [22:51]
B
And Instagram.
- [22:52]
A
Well yeah, and Instagram but I guess I'm thinking yeah and Instagram do an audit. And I think that they've done this.
- [22:58]
B
Really well from what I can tell.
- [23:00]
A
Yeah. But specifically go through website and, and pricing guide. My. When I look at my pricing guide that is the absolute best of. The best of the best of everything that I've shot. But also I'm strategically picking stuff that. This is going to sound bad but I'm just going to say it looks the most rich. Like if you're. If you're trying to hit a. A higher paying client and get out of that 2 to 4k bracket.
- [23:25]
B
Yeah.
- [23:25]
A
Like people that are going to pay more than those prices. 1 want a photographer who like they are actively shooting the work that, that is a wedding that they want to plan. Right. And so when I, when I say rich because that's kind of confusing a little bit. I mean like not even elegant. Maybe a little elegant but like anything where obviously emotion forward first. So like focus on showcasing photos where people want to like they'll invis. What is the word?
- [23:57]
B
Envision.
- [23:57]
A
Thank you. Envision themselves in the photos. Like, like don't show something where it's like them walking from a far away and they're. It's their backs. Unless that's like so artistic and like gorgeous for the art sake. But show something that. Or if it's just like overly posed. Especially if you're advertising yourself as documentary. Like if it's. If it's just like they're smiling and they're just like. And it just doesn't feel like what you want it to feel. And I'm not saying that's on your site. I'm just saying like in general, like do an audit and make sure that the emotion is forward. But then look through any weddings that you have in your portfolio that like the florals looked very expensive or the, the details of the. Either the venue or the tablescape or Anything like that like seems more elevated and like put those specific photos as forward as you can. So like on pricing guide on like key pages of your website. The only thing I would say is, is when it's like a big photo on your website, try to put emotional photos. Connection, connection photos. Don't like put necessarily like a, like a massive photo of a tablescape. Because even if it is beautiful. Well, it depends on how luxury. Because it's like the, the more luxury market you get. Which I know luxury is like a buzzword and we just sometimes want a higher paying clientele without being in the quote unquote luxury market.
- [25:18]
B
The luxury is so nebulous. It could mean a million things.
- [25:22]
A
But I guess if you're getting like super, super luxury. I notice that photographers do share more.
- [25:28]
B
Like guests details and venue.
- [25:31]
A
Yes, all those things. So it just depends.
- [25:36]
C
Yeah.
- [25:38]
B
Grace, how are you feeling at the moment?
- [25:40]
C
The wheels are spinning. I'm just like, okay, trying to keep up. Yes. No, that was, I feel like that was super helpful. Yeah. Start with the avatar and then. Yeah, go from there. Yeah, I'm just like processing.
- [25:54]
B
That's makes a lot of sense. We're also like just throwing stuff at you like a fire hose.
- [25:57]
A
Also like we, you said where you were and then we just went off and you haven't technically asked us a question which is fine. But like are we hitting like where you're at or wanting to like dive into right now?
- [26:09]
C
Yeah, definitely.
- [26:11]
B
I love it. Okay. Grace, would you like for us to kind of start in. I know we said we were going to do this and then Lindsay kind of touched on marketing but the.
- [26:20]
A
Well, because I'm talking both because it like the specific photos of what I was talking about hit both. Yeah, it's, it's getting and it, it's in converting because it's in pricing guide. It's in. I mean but yeah, we can, we can transition into like how do you.
- [26:35]
B
Feel if we like kind of dive into sales? Like does that like going through your back end process, like once somebody inquires and kind of work workshopping that does that feel good? Or do you have other like questions or anything that you just want to ask and we can just answer?
- [26:49]
C
I feel like that's good. Yeah, I think that would be super helpful.
- [26:52]
B
I love it. Okay, can you kind of give us like an overview of when a client inquires, what is your process with responding to them? And this can be an overview of like I send them a initial response email. I have them get on a call on the call, I go over my pricing guide or is it like sent in the first email? Do you have a pricing guide? Like, kind of like just give us like a brief overview of like, what is your process once you get an inquiry, what happens after that?
- [27:23]
C
Yeah, so I send like a super long email back. I feel like it's super, like packed full just with like, information. Congratulations. And then I have like, pricing guide and then like a link to like set up a call. And so hopefully, like, I like to do those like, ASAP days. And so then when they book a call, we jump on the call, just kind of go over like questions that they have. I talk about my process, hear from them. Start off, actually start off that call with just like hearing about like their visions, their desires, their dreams, their story. Yeah. And then at the end of the call, I definitely, like, have tried, like, just ask like where they're at, if they're ready to book, if they're ready to not, and then usually like follow up if I haven't heard anything in like a few days.
- [28:12]
B
Love it.
- [28:12]
C
Like three days or so and then kind of just go from there. So.
- [28:17]
B
Okay.
- [28:17]
A
Do you know the percentage of how many people inquire to then get on the. Like, how many are actually getting on a console call?
- [28:25]
B
And this can also just be an estimate of like.
- [28:26]
C
Yeah, I would say like half the people get on a call, maybe less than half. I would say probably less than half recently have gotten on the call. But I feel like once they get on the call, like, they're serious. Like. Yeah, we talk like it's, it's. Yeah, they're ready to book. If not, like, you know. Yeah, about there.
- [28:46]
A
So, so for the, for, for everyone that get. You get on a call, are they booking?
- [28:51]
C
I would say definitely. Majority of those people are for sure.
- [28:55]
B
Okay, Love it. Can I ask you a question? I'm trying to pull it up, but you'll just be able to answer it faster. Are your starting prices at least or price range on your website?
- [29:03]
C
Yes. Yeah, starting prices. And then I have an average investment, but I need to change that and I don't know if I'm going to keep that.
- [29:10]
A
I don't know.
- [29:10]
B
Okay. Okay, so tell me a little bit, just a touch about your pricing guide. Is it like.
- [29:18]
A
I also want to know about her inquiry response email.
- [29:21]
B
Yes, but just on your pricing guide, like, is it. Tell me like, how roughly, how many pages, what kind of info do you go over?
- [29:27]
C
Oh, gosh, that's great. Can I look up stuff?
- [29:30]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
- [29:31]
C
Okay. I feel like I have, like, not looked at it in a while.
- [29:36]
B
Yeah, that is. That's totally fine.
- [29:39]
C
So it is. It is like 20 pages, I think.
- [29:47]
B
Perfect.
- [29:47]
A
Okay.
- [29:47]
B
Okay.
- [29:48]
C
And so I have, like, my approach, process packages, add ons, and then how to book.
- [29:52]
A
Do you have reviews?
- [29:53]
B
Do you have reviews in there?
- [29:54]
C
I do have them sprinkled throughout. Yeah.
- [29:56]
B
Okay.
- [29:57]
C
I don't have, like, specific.
- [29:58]
A
Are they like the best freaking reviews that you've ever had in your entire life?
- [30:01]
C
Yes. Okay.
- [30:03]
B
Okay, great. Okay, tell me a little bit about. And this is just me, us gathering information and then we can, like, share thoughts so far. Killing it, girl. Like, seriously killing it. This is amazing. Tell us about your initial response email. You said it's like, pretty informational, like, pretty packed. Talk to us about what is in that. Like, what is it packed with? I guess.
- [30:26]
C
Okay, so we see date. Okay. So I'm like, hey, congratulations, you're engaged. Yay. I'm still available for your date. And then I kind of have like, whatever personal information, you know, they like, mentioned in there. I try to like, you know, bring that up or connect with them there and then kind of move into like, just giving them a small paragraph about like, my style, my approach. And then I'm like, hey, I'd love to jump on a call with you to see if we're a good fit. So then I have that link, and then underneath that I have have. You know, if you want to take a look at my packaging, pricing before the call. Here's that. And then. And then I think I have. I have a few gallery links below that. And then.
- [31:06]
A
Okay, that's awesome.
- [31:07]
C
That's it. Yeah.
- [31:09]
A
What is. What is, like, the tone of the email? Like, is it, do you lean formal or do you lean more, like conversational in writing style? Does that make sense?
- [31:18]
C
Definitely more conversational, not like super, super formal. I definitely am just like. Like try to be hype and excited and just like, yay, I'm so excited you're here.
- [31:27]
B
Love it.
- [31:28]
A
I'm like Nancy Drew right now because I'm like, I. I mean, obviously without seeing it, I'm like, that sounds like no notes. Do you have notes like that?
- [31:34]
B
The only thing that I would say. And this is. This is there's a couple things, but on the. The initial response email specifically, there's two things that have popped into my head. One, I personally would reconsider your first thing being congratulations on your engagement. So excited. Even if the rest of your email is so good, there's just an element that so Many photographers, it's almost like the norm is, like, starting with, like, addressing their, like, engagement and being like, congratulations, whatever. I would almost just eliminate that. And not that you, like, can't say that. Somewhere further in the email, like, I think I have a section, like, my initial response where I'm like, okay, now let's talk details. Like, I can't tell you how excited I am for you in this season. Like, it is just, like, one of the sweetest, like, seasons in the world. Preparing to spend the rest of your life with, like, your best friend. I would love.
- [32:24]
A
Yeah, blah, blah, blah.
- [32:25]
B
Like, you can definitely put that. That concept of, like, being excited with them and congratulating them. I would personally not put that as, like, the beginning of your email. I would start with something different either, like, just excitement and, like, for their email and, like, ready to get to know them or, like, I don't know.
- [32:44]
A
Something, like, just start something that stands out, that is very representative of who you are and what your brand is, but also that speaks directly to them.
- [32:54]
B
Yeah.
- [32:55]
A
An exit. I. You're not me, so obviously this would not apply. But, like, my. My first email, like, I think my subject line, you know when you write in all caps and you just, like, hit keyboard and it's like, that's. My subject line is like. And then I say, super excited email hit in your inbox. So, like, already that's gonna probably stand out than, like, an average subject line. That's like photographers like Jane Doe Photography Inquiry or something that it's like, no.
- [33:25]
B
Because the reality is. And we. I know we've talked about this on the podcast before, but typically a client, usually, unless they have, like, fallen in love with you and you are the only photographer they are possibly inquiring with and working with, most of the time, most clients are inquiring with at least a handful of other photographers. And so they're getting these other responses back. So you want to be the person who is building connection with them first. So speed of response. That's one of my other notes. Speed of response. And secondly, the what? Like, the contents, like, the uniqueness, the connection that they can already feel or engage in or engage with in that first email and that first even, like, paragraph subject line. So really, like, being very strategic with, like, how can I make this stand out? And then with that, like, first section, too. I know this is, like, so specific, Grace, because. Because so much of what you're doing is amazing. So we might, like, switch and touch on some of the marketing stuff, because that might be the Biggest disconnect is like just how you're getting which clients. If you are loving what you're hearing on today's episode, then we wanted to share something else you might love the Heart Shop it's our digital resource online shop for creative entrepreneurs. The Heart Shop is your one stop shop for all of our online courses, luxury website templates, PDF guides, social media, graphic templates and illustrations.
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A
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B
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- [36:26]
B
The other thing is like specifically being like congrats on your engagement. So excited. Even if you're saying it very conversationally and like excited, it's still the same concept that every like email is probably starting with that they're getting a response to and then I am available on this date. This Might be personal preference. And I'm very curious to see. Hear what Lindsay's gonna say. Personally, I would just not, like, I would just not put I am available on the date in the beginning of that email either. You cannot. You could say it further down in the email of, like, I am currently, like, available on that date. I hesitate to put that in my first email unless I feel for sure that I really want to work with this client, because I hesitate to be like, I am for sure open and available, because what if I get on the call with them and I'm like, we are not a good fit. And then I almost feel like I'm like, I just told you I'm available on that date, though. And you could still definitely say, like, hey, I just feel like we're not a good fit and, like, you know, move on. That's fine. But usually I'm like, I'm so excited to talk. Let's blah, blah, blah. And I don't even say, like, this date is currently open in my calendar because I could also just end up being like, I already have a wedding that weekend or the weekend before. Unless it's like a dream. Dream, dream client. I'm not gonna open that date. So it's kind of, like, nebulous for me.
- [37:38]
A
I have thought thoughts.
- [37:39]
B
Do you disagree?
- [37:40]
A
I do that. I do exactly what you are saying not to do, like, I am available, but I think I do it from a. Yeah, like, I. I do it because my emails are hella long, and I don't want them to think that, like, they're getting this long email just for me at the end to be like, so, sorry I'm unavailable.
- [37:55]
B
Well, but if I'm responding with, like, a ton of information, excitement, like, my huge thing is, like, I'm so excited to talk with you. I'm basically saying, I'm available.
- [38:03]
A
Yes, technically.
- [38:03]
B
But I don't say, like, I'm available September 9th. 9th.
- [38:06]
A
See, I. I do that because I want them to be like, even if I have got no inquiries for that day, I want them to. To be like, oh, my gosh, wait, she's actually available. Like, we got. We got a steal. Whoa.
- [38:19]
B
So you would keep that in the beginning of the email?
- [38:21]
A
You don't know. I don't think it's a make or break. Yeah, I just thought it was interesting that you. That I personally do that.
- [38:27]
B
But I don't think. I don't do that unless they're a dream client. And then I'm like, I am currently available, but I'm only taking, like, one more client for the month of blank.
- [38:34]
A
I agree. I agree with you that, like, if you're trying, if there's things to cut, cut. That's not gonna make her braid. That's not what's converting. Or that has. No, that's not what's making someone be like, oh, she said she's available for that day. I'm now no longer going with her. Like, that's not interesting. Like, that's not why people aren't booking her. So I think you could leave it. I think you could take it away. I don't know if that is really.
- [38:54]
B
The concept, though, I guess to me also the format of you're engaged, you.
- [38:58]
A
Want to stand out.
- [38:59]
B
I'm available. That is like 1, 2, 3.
- [39:03]
A
That is such. Yeah, I don't do that. Let's just be clear. I'm unique. But okay, that's.
- [39:08]
B
That is. That is the formula for 90% of photographers. I would cut that at some way or another. Either put the. I'm available. Rephrase it. Put it in like the second start. The start of the second paragraph. Somehow I would reformat that because that. 1, 2, 3, congrats.
- [39:23]
A
It all sounds the same.
- [39:25]
B
That is all going to look the same from, like 90% of photographers. So I would, I would reorder that for sure.
- [39:30]
A
So go in. And I would. Oh, sorry.
- [39:34]
C
What do I start out with? Something that's, like, connected to, like, my brand. Like, like, like, how do you stand out with that?
- [39:42]
B
Right. Yeah.
- [39:42]
A
So that's where I go back to. I. Maybe some more homework other than kind of digging into your ideal client and really fleshing that out. I think I do this with coaching students that I. And. And just for this, I'll throw some questions at you. I want you to open up a piece of paper or I want you to open up a Word document on your computer. It doesn't matter if it's digital or paper. And I want you to brain dump. Don't overthink the answers to these questions. And I want you to just answer. Why did I start photography? Why did I want to start my own business? What do I like? What's my history with photography? And what do I specifically love about the art form? What about, like, what specifically about Grace Trexel Photos stands out. Like, what if I had to visualize or just verbalize in words about the posing style, about the edits, about, like, whatever I'm doing? How would I describe that and ask even close friends that know your work or your mom or who, like, anybody that's close just to get other words in it. Maybe even throw in some of your. Like, link to your website and ask CHAT GBT to describe your work. Okay, take that with a grain of salt, obviously, because it's chatgpt, but it's. You're just getting like a word bank of description to describe who you are, what you do, what your work looks like. And then I also want you to ask the question, what is. What does it look and feel like when Grace shows up on a wedding day or a session? Like, what's your demeanor? What's the vibe? What's the energy? If we want to go like. But like, what? Like, basically you're just getting a word document that is just vomiting, not overthinking words that describe your work, who you are, all of that. And I want you to kind of dig down into, like, I think looking at all of that holistically on a page is going to help you kind of hone in on, like, almost your it factor. Yeah. Your brand. And so what you're doing, once you know your ideal client and you know your it factor and like, what makes Grace Trexel photos or photography, like, it. Like, what is different about me? You're going to find kind of like your secret sauce in that. That. And. And so that when you're asking, like, what do we. What do I start the email with? I don't know if we can give you that answer because it's not like. Because the point is that it doesn't. It's not. It shouldn't be like everybody else.
- [41:50]
B
It's not a formula.
- [41:51]
A
Like, so when we write our emails, it. It comes from a genuine place of like, okay, if somebody, if a bride walked up to me in person and was like, hey, I just got engaged. I know you're a photographer. Like, what? I. I would love to know more about your services or whatever. It. I write my emails as if I were verbally talking to her in person. What would I actually say? So for me, that's why I said, like, the hitting the keyboard, because I'm a basket case. And I would go like, oh, my gosh. Like, and I would freak out and I'd be like, oh, my gosh, tell me. Tell me everything. Where is your like? And that energy, like, the excitement of that energy I try to infuse into the email. So that's why I ask you, like, what makes Grace. Grace, what makes your photo? Like, what about you is different? Why should someone hire you over Sally down the street and like, the answer to that question is what I want you to like infuse throughout the entire inquiry response email. Not even just like the beginning.
- [42:43]
B
Yeah.
- [42:44]
A
And it sounds like you're kind of already doing that. You said you have a paragraph of like the experience and all of that, which is great. Just make sure that it, it doesn't sound, I guess, boring that sounds. But like, where it's just like, I'm so excited. I'm so excited. Thanks for. I'm so excited about your engagement. Thanks for inquiring. I'm open for this date. Here's a little bit about my services. Like, and when I'm writing those paragraphs, I hardcore attract and repel. Kind of like what I said earlier about barn weddings. Obviously I'm joking, but not like I say specifically in my inquiry response email, I'm like, hey, here's a little bit about me. Because I value you so much, I want to make sure that you are hiring the perfect person for your day. And if I'm not it, that's okay. I say that because I don't want to be a clingy boyfriend. Like, energy that like is, is being like, book me, book me, book me. It's like if you almost give off a presence of like, I could take you or I could leave you. It almost makes them want you more. I think to an extent there is.
- [43:36]
B
A buyer's psych psychology element or sales.
- [43:38]
A
Psychology element of like, if something's unattainable.
- [43:40]
B
There's also an element too of just simple practicality as a business owner of like being able to be like, hey, first and foremost priority for me is that we are the right fit, which.
- [43:52]
A
Is endearing to somebody. It's like respectful.
- [43:54]
B
Yeah. And it's also really nice because there are situations, especially when you get to the place where you're like very happy with your current clients and bookings and whatever. There comes a place where you do start to turn away clients who are wanting to work with you.
- [44:06]
A
You have fun weddings.
- [44:08]
B
No, that's not the point of it.
- [44:11]
A
I mean, but, but me, but, but.
- [44:13]
B
You have kind of that like almost like tone or like foundational, like, here's how I work. We are, we have to be the right fit for us to work together. And that may or may not be us. And so the, it gives you this freedom that like sometimes when you do chat with someone, you're like, like, budget's not fully, like you're asking for four hours. I don't, I don't touch four hour weddings. Like, you Know, I only do six, seven, eight hour weddings. Like starting.
- [44:37]
A
It's being confident and it's. And who you are and who you're not and people that are people that are for you are going to be attracted like hell to that.
- [44:46]
B
Yeah.
- [44:46]
A
Like it's going to be, it's going to be like, oh, wow, I want that. Because she's so confident and she knows exactly what she does and that's. I. She's going to give that to me if we hire her. Yeah. Wow.
- [44:57]
B
So making sure the email is not boring. Really Using your own conversational tone, attracting and repelling. And then the one of the other notes that I really had and Lindsay can like dive in on anything else but like in your, your respons. One of the things that I heard you say that again is not the end of the world. But you mentioned, like, you respond ASAP within a couple of days. If you're in the place where you're like, I am trying to get more bookings, like a higher conversion. I'm trying to like stand out even more. I'm trying to build that connection first before any of the other five photographers that they inquired with at the same day respond to them. Like, I want to be one of the first responses in their inbox to build that connection. I and you have the capacity again, this is not like every photographer should always respond within this time frame. But if you're in the place where you're like, I, I need more bookings, I want them at a higher price. I. Whatever. I would challenge yourself to try to shorten that response time significantly to like, be like, I want to respond within three hours, I want to respond within six hours. Whatever, like feels possible. I know you're a mom. Like, whatever feels sustainable for a short season. That's the other thing too is like responding within two days is not the longest time. Like, I know some photographers consistently respond within a week or two and like two days is. Is definitely faster than many. But if you're like, I am trying to get in their inbox to give them the information when they're maybe still sitting down planning their wedding stuff and still discussing so they can like have this conversation and book this call in the same like planning session together or you know, whatever, like she's still at her computer on her phone, whatever, like I want to resp. I would encourage in my mind the best response time would be within an hour. But that's also like kind of extreme and I don't know if that's like a big factor for you because you are getting so many to convert, like a little under half to convert to the call. That's awesome. But I think that could be something that they are inquiring with other photographers. They're getting several other options and yours is coming in somewhere in the middle of maybe other responses. And they're like, oh, we really like Grace, but this other photographer we really like too, and she's cheaper. We're gonna go with her at the end of the day. Whereas if you're one of the first people in there that they're like, oh my gosh, we're obsessed with Grace and your price point almost becomes like the starting number for them. It won't may not seem as like, like different. Like, it may seem like the, the average range. And they're like, we love Grace. We connected with her first. We feel so excited. We got on a call with her the next day. We're ready to move forward. The other prices, even if they're cheaper, don't matter to us now, like, I would almost consider are encouraging you to speed up that response time in this season that you're in of like trying to get more bookings. But do you agree with that?
- [47:41]
A
Yeah, no, I would agree with that. A way to make that. You probably already do this, I'm assuming, but email templates just to make like. And try to like, look over it and make it as. As uneditable as possible.
- [47:54]
B
Like, like as custom. It feels as custom as possible, but it is the template so that when.
- [47:59]
A
You get an inquiry, all you really have to do is pop into honeybook on your phone or on your computer, tweak a couple, and it's good to go. Because you're a mom, you're actively like living life with your. You're also pregnant. And so it's like, I understand like the annoyance of like, I got an inquiry. I need to like, you know, and maybe in this season put notifications for HoneyBook on your phone. I normally would recommend not having any notifications on your phone, but for specific, like for HoneyBook to see when an inquiry comes in to be on it. Like, if an inquiry came in on a Saturday at 4:00pm I'm not going to be. If I didn't have a notification on my phone, I wouldn't. For honeybook specifically, I wouldn't know that until Monday morning, which is like three days late, not three. I can't do math two days later. And again, making a very customized template that doesn't sound like a template will help as much as possible with that so you don't feel like you have to re do a lot of stuff for every inquiry.
- [48:50]
B
And again, we are such big proponents of work life balance and having boundaries with work and not you know, like having like sustainable business practices. However, there are seasons where we truly like believe that if you are needing and wanting more bookings, your like your conversions are down. Your whatever's like, you're like, I need to do something and I'm willing to take, you know, the five, ten minutes every time an inquiry comes in to like pause what I'm doing and respond in 5 to 10 minutes and then go back even if it is on a Saturday at 4pm Like I am willing to respond by 5pm on a Saturday. And you know, maybe the boundary is you don't hop on the call until Monday morning. But maybe the boundary is like if they want to hop on a call that Saturday night, like I will do it like for a short season. And that's the other thing too is like we're not saying across the board at all times in your life Grace that you have to be this available or attached to your inquiries. But I have noticed a significant conversion difference when I am much quicker on my responses because they have that connection immediately.
- [49:58]
A
Honestly, whoever connects with them the faster.
- [50:01]
B
Yes that becomes the biggest determining factor for most clients is who they connect with the most first. And getting in that inbox and getting them on the call more quickly is a huge factor. So those were the things with like your backend sales personally that without like actually, you know, spending several hours going over like your pricing guide and you know what exactly your email says and all of that, that everything you're doing is really great. Having a really good detailed investment guide, having reviews all it. Having the automatic link to schedule a call.
- [50:37]
A
Like a calendly link.
- [50:38]
B
Yeah, like a calendly link to schedule a call. Having a really good solid first email. Like all of those things in my opinion are awesome. Which leads me obviously few minor tweaks, but that leads me to think that there's an element or a strong element of the marketing and who you're speaking to. That might be the difference because you're getting these inquiries.
- [50:58]
C
But.
- [50:59]
B
But are they people who are consistently which it sounds like they are consistently being like, you're too expensive, too expensive. Out of my price range. Growing cheaper, we're going cheaper, we're going cheaper. Which tells me that who you are consistently reaching might be. Might be a slight disconnect for who you're trying to reach. That Makes sense.
- [51:16]
A
Segue. Well, actually here, Grace, I want to give you a moment. We've been talking a lot.
- [51:21]
B
Yeah.
- [51:21]
A
Do you have any thoughts or follow up questions to everything that Evie just said?
- [51:24]
C
Said, I feel like I have a lot of work to do and like the best.
- [51:28]
B
Okay.
- [51:28]
A
But in good, In a good way.
- [51:29]
C
Hopefully in a good way. Yeah. And like not, not like making, you know, like major, major changes, but just like little tweaks that I think could really. Well, that's the thing, like reach those people and actually stand out. And I feel like that's probably. Yeah, that's the difference is like, you know, how do you stand out from other people when totally in their eyes you all like look the same. Yeah, in a lot of ways. So.
- [51:49]
A
Well, and you have, you're like, Evie said you're doing incredible. Like when you said everything that was in your email, I was like, o laws, no notes. Some notes. But like, not really like you. You're putting all the major things that like you have a solid business is what I'm trying to say. Like, so the little tweaks are going to be, I think what will genuinely help you. The one tweak to the email that I, I heard you say you were like, I think you said something about like, I would love to hop on a call, like, and basically drop the link to the, the calendar or, you know, whatever. However you schedule your calls, something that I would encourage is to throw a line in there that is encouraging foam, not fomo, but urgency to basically be just like, hey, while this date, this maybe it could be where you say that you're available. Technically you can say while this date or while your date is available in my calendar as of now, it, it, I, I keep it open for all, you know, inquiries that come in and it may not be open in the future. So if you want to secure me as your photographer sooner rather than later, let's hop on. Or like, if you want to secure me as your photographer 100, let's hop on that call sooner rather than later. Just so it's like, so that way there's a slight urgency and you're like subtly saying like, I'm not going to hold this date for you. I mean, you could even say that I, I don't hold dates for people without a booking in my calendar. Then it's just because I found like when I just give a link, the it depends on like the life, you know, style of like when in their planning process they inquired with you, they might not be in a rush they might be like, oh, we could book our photographer within, like the next month or two. But it's like, no, come on. Like, wait. It's just you subtly reminding them, like, I'm a. It's also that confidence piece of, like, unattainableness of like, I have inquiries knocking down the door even if I don't. You don't know that.
- [53:38]
B
But also you do. Having like 10 to 20 inquiries a month is like, so it's not even a lie. Yeah, yeah. So I would just be like, dates are first come, first serve. I don't hold a date without, you know, a deposit. So if you are like really wanting to work together, like, let's get on that call sooner rather than later. Like, and then something else. This is so subtle, but in the email that I would encourage is I would use the language of like, let me know if you have any questions, otherwise I'll chat with you on our call soon. Yeah, like, that's how I kind of sign off my email.
- [54:08]
A
So it's like, we're getting on a call.
- [54:10]
B
Yeah, it's kind of. I'm not like, like, may we may or may not get on a call. It's like, no, no, no. Like, I'll chat with you on the zoom call soon. Like, that's kind of how I end my email.
- [54:20]
A
Like, okay, this, this is kind of. Is a little. Still in the sales process, but it's, it's dipping its toe into marketing because it's website. So it kind of hits both a little bit, but it goes to everything that we were just saying. You're. I would just change your booking or your contact page to say book me.
- [54:35]
B
Or let's like work together something subtle.
- [54:38]
A
That'S just a little bit more like aggressive, but, but not even in a.
- [54:41]
B
Harsh way because it currently says contact.
- [54:43]
A
Which is just more of just like, you could take me or you could leave me. And it's like, no, no, I'm your girl. If you've read my, you know, website site, like, so there's, there's terminology. Which again, that's why I started off the call by saying like, ideal client. And even knowing who you are and what your brand is, which you already have like a solid foundation of that. So it's, it's almost just like fine tuning the copy and making sure it's like very repelling and attracting to the specific Jane. We're just calling your ideal client Jane for now. You can change her name later. But on your contact page, which will thus force be called book me or whatever you want, but something like that. You have a paragraph right before the contact form. I would love you to go into that paragraph and spiceify it. That's probably not a word, like, right now that it reads. Can I. Are you okay if I read it out loud?
- [55:36]
C
Go for it.
- [55:37]
A
Okay. It says, let's get to it, which I like that. I know this is a big deal. I also like that. Sorry, Me saying I like that. If anybody. That's me saying, okay, okay, I'll just stop. I'll just stop.
- [55:46]
B
You like that?
- [55:47]
A
Okay, thanks for clarifying. You like that? Well, because I was about to say, change it, but then I was trying to say, oh, I like those things. Okay, never mind. I'll actually read the paragraph. Choosing who will. Choosing who will be with you on your most important day is huge. You deserve a photographer you can trust to capture your moments in an honest way. Because once that day has passed, your photos will be one of the only things left to remind you of your best days. Fill out the contact form below, and let's get started. So I love what you're doing here to an extent, because you're. You're reminding them of the importance of photos. What you're not doing, though, is reminding them of why they need to hire you specifically versus anybody else. And so in. You could keep a little bit of that language, I think, but I would love a paragraph that's basically reiterating who you are and who you're not.
- [56:30]
B
Yeah.
- [56:31]
A
And basically saying, if you are down or if you are looking for X, this with me, this is what you're gonna get. Or, like, when you hire Grace, you don't have to say yourself in the third person. You could just say, when you choose me, you're choosing a girl that's gonna show up on your day. And, like, the examples then that you would say in that sentence need to come, I think, from your ideal client profile of, like, what are her fears? What is she afraid? Like, is she afraid that her day's gonna pass her by in the blink of an eye and she's just. It's just gonna be a blip? Or is she afraid that, um, her family drama maybe don't bring up family drama, but, like, again, knowing I don't know whose ideal client specifically is, like, you know what? I want to. I want to attract people with broken families. Let's go. I don't know if that's. I don't know if that's. Like, maybe don't. My point being. My point being is knowing exactly who she is and like what her fears are and all of those like quirks and what specifically she's wanting. If she's wanting those like fun, loving, candid, really like joyful photos, then like speak that in a paragraph of like when you get me, you're getting joy filled, energetic, candid. And again, you can tweak all of that to, to what specifically your, your business is. But it's like a paragraph that's like a little less generic of just like, hey, photos are important, which they are. And you can keep an element of that. But I want, I guess more of like a power punch paragraph right before they inquire. I think that would, would be helpful in being like, oh yeah, I want that. Yeah.
- [58:08]
C
Okay.
- [58:10]
B
Do you have any thoughts on that, Grace?
- [58:13]
C
I think that's great. Yeah, just like talking to them instead of about. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [58:22]
B
One quick thought that I have in general on just the marketing and I, I don't want to like belabor this because I feel like I can tell you know what you're doing and you're very smart with business savvy and like your brain. So I don't, I don't want to go into this too in depth, but there's an element for me, Grace, that feels like your work is at a, at a quality and you're trying to hit a price point. And I'd be curious to hear what you think. But I personally think there's an element that, because I'm still seeing like on your website and a bit on your Instagram, a little less on your Instagram, but on your website you're, you are. And on your inquiry form it's showcasing seeing seniors families, lifestyle portraits.
- [59:03]
A
I see a lot of seniors on your website.
- [59:05]
B
There's just, there's an element that, that you're almost trying to hit a price point with like couples and weddings. That is like a specialty price point. Like I focus on this and I really serve this and do this. But you're still kind of keeping your toe. It looks like in like all sorts of portraits, seniors, like families, newborns, whatever. There's almost a piece of me and hold this just loosely and like you can like think about it, talk to your husband about it, whatever. There's almost a part of me that you could still shoot it, but I would almost consider removing it from a lot of your like forward facing marketing, like website, Instagram, whatnot, and like really being like I am a specialist in couples and weddings. Like this is what I do. That is part of why I charge what I charge because I know what I'm doing. And this is the clientele that I really serve. And they're not seeing anything about families or seniors on. On there because those are also such different client avatars. Like, completely different. Ideal range.
- [60:03]
A
The nurse that I just outlined earlier. Yeah.
- [60:06]
B
Does not.
- [60:07]
A
You can't speak to her while also speaking to a senior or even a mom that's booking a family session or a senior session.
- [60:12]
B
And that's not. Again, I. I would hold that, like, loosely because you clearly are getting a good amount of inquiries.
- [60:19]
A
But again, if you want to keep it, you could just do a separate page specifically for, like, lifestyle or portraits or whatever you want.
- [60:26]
B
And then I would have separate inquiry for forms for each of those. I would not have the couple who is inquiring on an inquiry form see, like, what are you interested in? And it's like, families, seniors, newborn. Like, I saw, like, second shooter on there. I would separate. I would have it be very clear, is it a wedding, elopement or engagement or, you know, like, couple session, whatever. However you want to describe that it is. Like, these are your options. And if you do want to do a separate page for, like, lifestyle stuff or, you know, seniors, families, whatever. Like, almost creating a separate area with a separate inquiry form for those people. So that's one, like, tiny thing I saw. I think for the most part on your Instagram, you're. It's mostly couples and weddings that I'm seeing, but I do see, like, you, like, senior photos of, like, your sister, which I love. But that does, to me, like, that does stand out as, like, oh, okay, she does. Seniors. Oh, it, like, you know, I'm noticing some photos of you and your family, which is awesome. I'm not saying to remove that, but if there's that mixed in with some other families, too, there could be an element of, like, oh, it doesn't look special. Seniors and families. And, you know, people might not right away identify that it's some of those are your family.
- [61:37]
C
Yeah.
- [61:37]
B
So that's just one thing that. That can help you kind of level up into a different market where you're like, this is what I do, and this is what I specialize in. And I am worth a higher price point because I deliver focused, excellent, experienced, quality work to that specific client. And I'm very, like, honed in on that. So that's one thing with. With that. That I would also say. But I know we're also Lindsay. Getting close on time. So.
- [62:11]
C
Yeah, no, I feel like I need to Hear that? Because I. I thought about doing that this next year just like, in general. General, like not even taking on seniors, because sometimes I love them. They drive me crazy. And like just doing like weddings and couples, like, sessions and maybe doing like, yeah, minis here and there, but otherwise.
- [62:29]
B
Yeah.
- [62:30]
C
So no, that's really good.
- [62:32]
B
Yeah.
- [62:33]
A
And again, it. For anybody listening that, like, that is rubbing them the wrong way and you're like, I want to do everything. Or if even grace you're feeling a little bit of that. There is a way that people can do, quote, unquote, everything. But I wouldn't just say not everything but, but like weddings, couples and then like families or, or like seniors or whatever. I would just separate the brands as much as possible. So, yeah, whether. Whether on your website you have a, like a page that's almost like pricing experience, FAQ and the inquiry form for only like seniors, because it's like a senior only page or you have it in a completely separate website. Totally. Which I know is obviously a lot more work, but specifically on Instagram, I think separate. If you, if you want to keep up and really go ham with like both weddings and seniors, I would have it separate just because that when. When you're looking at. When a bride or groom who's inquiring with you, like, looks on your portfolio or portfolio, your Instagram and they're seeing like a senior, it takes them out of. Out of it a little bit. Especially when they're looking for a luxury. Again, I'm using that word loosely, but like a luxury, like, like specialized, you know, wedding photographer, professional in their industry. Like, they're looking for somebody if they're willing to pay 5k and above. Like, they want someone who's dang good, who knows what they're doing, and you can still be dang good and know what you're doing, but because you're sharing everything, there's just an element of it.
- [63:57]
B
That feels like a jack of all.
- [63:59]
A
Trades a little bit. Yeah, it's. We've shared this on the podcast before, but it almost feels like the golden Corral versus a steakhouse.
- [64:05]
B
I feel like the analogy just popped into my head is, is you're calling a handyman who kind of does a lot of things. Okay. Or versus calling a plumber.
- [64:16]
A
Yeah.
- [64:17]
B
A high end. Like, specifically, you have a pipe leak and you're like, let me call the local handyman. And that's gonna be cheaper. That person might be able to. To really get you the results you want. Definitely. But if you're like, oh, there Is water leaking in my house? Like I have something I need a solution. Like you're gonna call the specialized plumber.
- [64:34]
A
Which honestly might might be or the election where those inquiries are coming. Maybe you're getting handyman inquiries of people that are like looking and and they want somebody who's a handyman inquiry therefore they're expecting a lower price point. Whereas you're not. You're not getting possibly the inquiries that are like no, I want a specialized professional. But that, that's where that. That type of language and really putting a stake in the sand and saying this is who I am. This is what I do. This is what I specialize in. Take it or leave it. B I T C H's like obviously don't actually say that but like the energy of that.
- [65:08]
C
Yeah yeah yeah.
- [65:09]
A
As. As kind and gracious and Christ loving as possible. Like you know like still keep your brand, still keep who you are but like still show up very confident and bold in who you are and who you're not.
- [65:20]
B
Okay here's the last. I'm just going to throw a last few things that you grace because I know we're like pretty much at time so I just want to throw a couple of things for like homework. I would reevaluate your bio just a bit because I love. I feel like you could be more specialized Everything we're talking about of like here's who I serve here is my brand. The type of imagery I I would just consider retweaking saying grace Trexel photography when that's already kind of clear clear on like between your handle your your website characters away. I would, I would remove that and I here for the simple lovers and adventurous humans. I like that I think that could be stronger. I think that could be more specific. Yeah like I serve couples wanting or like I help. I serve I document I blank like an I verb and then who you are reaching and trying to speak to.
- [66:11]
A
Which goes back to Jane.
- [66:12]
B
Yes. I I don't dislike the Christ follower wifey and mama. I I love those. I don't think that needs to be on your bio. If you need that real estate for something else I would remove that personally and I would add something stronger in including. One of the things you could consider adding in is a call to action. I would really encourage a call to action of like let's work together or let's make your your let's like freeze your story for all time whatever something and then like a hand emoji pointing down to the link whatever something else. You could do is with the link on your bio putting in. You could start with just the multiple links on the Instagram if you wanted to. You could also use something like linktree. In an ideal world. I know Lindsay and I talk about this on the podcast. I would have it be an actual page on your website and I would have multiple link options for link, like, like let's work together. And then when they pull it up, it's a custom page on your website that has like link buttons that say like visit, like see my portfolio or let's work together. And the what, what is the experience like, you know those like it directs them to like very specific things versus just one link to the homepage of your website. Like a free guide for like or like five venues in Nebraska that aren't Barnes. That could be a direct link to a blog post that will really attract your clients. So that's one thing. The other thing I would go into your highlights. If you are removing like seniors, families, whatever. I would consider like cleaning up like one of the top highlights that I'm seeing. Like I think it's number five at the moment is seniors. If you're wanting to remove that from your brand, cut that out. And then overall on your Instagram and this is just forward facing Instagram because that's such a strong like lead source and it seems like a good one for you. I would consider just being very clear having even captions like talk about what does it look like to have you know, a modern or like a, you know, whatever, timeless cottage core, whatever the vibe is that you're wanting to reach. That's not the barn weddings. Like what does that look like to have it in Nebraska and like have it be a carousel or something where you're featuring those local venues and you're like, let's go to the blog post to see more. And maybe you like touch on like why are photo photos worth the investment for a wedding day? Like what does this actually look like? Pull reviews in from past clients of like we look at these every day or every year on our anniversary. It's one of the biggest moments. I can't believe like so much of the day felt like a blur. This is the best way to remember it. Like pull in stuff like that. Basically educating your clients, serving them with information, with value and really highlighting like you are a specialist and like what you do is worth it. Lindsay's freaking out over one of your photos.
- [68:49]
A
I'm so sorry. I was like looking at your photos while you said that. I'm I'm in need this specific photo. Do you see what I'm talking about? I like zoomed in.
- [68:56]
C
Oh yes.
- [68:57]
A
I'm gonna need that. Like on the front page of. Of everything everywhere. I. I'm. I'm. This gives. I'm not planning a barn wedding.
- [69:04]
B
Yeah. This whole. This whole shoot also I. What. Must say Grace. So much of your work that is currently featured on your Instagram, I feel visually does align with who you're trying to reach. I think you just need to like focus in on it and go hard. Like even this one of like the tent with like the twinkle lights.
- [69:24]
A
The one on the. What is this called?
- [69:25]
B
The parasol with the shadows.
- [69:28]
C
Yes.
- [69:29]
A
Look, this also gives. I'm not planning a part away.
- [69:34]
B
You have done a very good job, I can tell of curating. I would never guess.
- [69:39]
A
This looks rich.
- [69:40]
B
Yes. Yes. I would never guess that. That you struggle with getting like barn inquiries. That. That that's the majority. You're trying to like steer away from it because the work that you're showcasing. I'm not seeing that barn on there. I would, I would double down on that. I would be very like. Don't worry about double posting weddings or sessions. Put up reels. That's like. Like pov. You live in Nebraska, but you don't want a barn wedding.
- [70:06]
A
Like and then. And then do a carousel of all your dope photos. Like a real partial light or like. And parasols.
- [70:12]
B
Like double down on the attractive repel. And like really speaking to this ideal client who's wanting kind of like a higher end venue experience service photos and not. I also not to say that like anyone who wants a barn wedding doesn't want higher end stuff.
- [70:28]
A
Like.
- [70:29]
B
But it's just a different. Like you're. It's a different visual that you're trying to really. There are.
- [70:33]
A
There are rich hicks out in the world.
- [70:36]
B
Lindsay. Okay, to clarify offending so many people.
- [70:41]
A
Wait, wait. Can I say I got married in a barn?
- [70:44]
C
Yeah.
- [70:44]
A
Okay.
- [70:44]
B
Thank you. I was gonna say all three of us are from the Midwest. My sister got married my. I grew up on a farm. My sister got married in my parents barn.
- [70:52]
A
Listen, I got married in a chic barn. It was great.
- [70:54]
B
You got married in a barn. So we're. We're not trying to really hate on it. But as photographers, when you shoot the same style, it's not really yours anymore. It does get a little tiring.
- [71:05]
A
The makeup in jars. Yeah, it's out.
- [71:07]
B
Okay. Okay. I love it. Well, Grace, how do you feel? I know we Gave you, hopefully, a good amount of homework that hopefully is going to, like, start getting some serious traction and results for you. But how are you feeling?
- [71:18]
C
I'm just processing. That's where I'm at.
- [71:21]
A
She's like, okay.
- [71:21]
C
I'm just trying to, like, remember I can rewatch this, right?
- [71:24]
A
You absolutely can rewatch. You can listen. That's the great part about having it be a podcast episode, is you and everyone else can listen to it as many times as you want.
- [71:33]
C
Yeah, no, I feel. I feel really good. I feel like. I don't know, like, I feel like this is perfect timing, like, going into, like, off season, because, like, my list of things to do is, like, so long.
- [71:42]
B
Yeah.
- [71:42]
C
And so now I'm just gonna, like, put all of this at the top and, like, I love it.
- [71:46]
A
Amazing. Well, you're doing incredible.
- [71:48]
B
Yeah, you really are. I know we, like, we're trying to find areas of improvement, but, like, I personally definitely had to dig for some of those.
- [71:55]
A
Like, you.
- [71:56]
C
You guys are so sweet.
- [71:57]
B
You are killing it.
- [71:58]
A
No, but, like, your work is genuinely good. Like, so good. Yeah, we're just. We gave you some tweaks to, like, position and place.
- [72:05]
B
Yeah.
- [72:06]
A
Strategically with that.
- [72:07]
C
I think they'll be really helpful. Yeah.
- [72:09]
A
Amazing.
- [72:10]
C
Well, thank you so much for the day. And I can't.
- [72:13]
B
Oh, no, never mind. I love it. Well, next time you get a chance, hopefully you still, you know, feel like you're just ready to sit down and buckle through it. That's what.
- [72:23]
C
Oh, yes.
- [72:24]
B
I love it. Well, we are here for you. We are, you know, excited to see. Please, like, send us updates, like, DMs, emails, whatever. Like, send us updates.
- [72:33]
A
DM. Yeah.
- [72:34]
B
Yeah. How things are going, what you've been changing results. You're seeing all the things. We want to hear it.
- [72:39]
C
Yes, I will. Oh, thank you so much.
- [72:42]
B
Thank you, Grace.
- [72:43]
A
Go have an amazing rest of your day.
- [72:44]
B
Okay.
- [72:44]
C
Yes. You guys, too.
- [72:57]
A
Sat.