418: Want to Get Your Photography Work Published? Here’s your step by step roadmap - with Laurken Kendall

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Heart & Hustle Podcast | Episode 418: "Want to Get Your Photography Work Published? Here’s Your Step-by-Step Roadmap" with Larkin Kendall

Release Date: January 28, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 418 of The Heart & Hustle Podcast, hosts Evie McLeod and Lindsay Roman welcome internationally published wedding photographer and artist Larkin Kendall. With a decade-long career in photography, Larkin shares her journey from humble beginnings to achieving significant publication milestones. This episode serves as an invaluable resource for photographers aspiring to get their work featured in notable publications.

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Guest Introduction and Background

Larkin Kendall introduces herself as an internationally published wedding photographer who began her career under challenging circumstances. Evicted from her home with her family and eight months pregnant, Larkin pivoted to photography as a means to generate income. Her passion quickly transformed from a side quest into a thriving career.

Notable Quote:

[06:06] Larkin Kendall: "I am a homeschool mom with three boys and run the Mother Photographer, an online school that actively mentors photographers."

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The Importance of Getting Published

The core of the discussion revolves around the significance of getting photography work published. Larkin emphasizes that publication goes beyond mere clout; it plays a crucial role in enhancing Search Engine Optimization (SEO) and increasing online visibility.

Key Points:

• SEO Benefits: Publications link back to photographers' websites, boosting their credibility and search engine rankings.
• Visibility: Being featured in reputable magazines like Brides can exponentially increase a photographer's audience through platforms like Pinterest and Instagram.
• Symbiotic Relationship: Publications rely on photographers for content, creating a mutually beneficial relationship.

Notable Quote:

[15:14] Larkin Kendall: "Publications handle the SEO by professionally pinning and linking your work, making your website more credible to Google."

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Step-by-Step Roadmap to Getting Published

Larkin outlines a strategic approach to getting photography work published, tailored for both beginners and seasoned photographers.

1. Research and List Publications:

   • Identify target publications that align with your photography style.
   • Focus on regional blogs initially as they are often more receptive and less competitive.

2. Prepare Your Submission:

   • Create a preview gallery that includes both vertical and landscape images.
   • Use a pre-wedding questionnaire to gather essential information that can be repurposed for submissions.

3. Submit Strategically:

   • Do Not Submit the Same Wedding to Multiple Publications Simultaneously to avoid being blacklisted.
   • Start with your top-choice publication and proceed downward if rejected.
   • Maintain consistency by integrating submission tasks into your workflow, dedicating just 15-20 minutes per submission.

4. Handle Rejections Gracefully:

   • Understand that a "no" is often not personal but due to aesthetic mismatches or publication schedules.
   • Keep submissions ongoing, as publications may revisit earlier submissions after some time.

5. Optimize for SEO:

   • Ensure that your work is optimized for search engines through proper tagging and linking.

Notable Quote:

[53:03] Larkin Kendall: "Don't be the snake eating its own tail. Just take the risk and don't make it a big deal."

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Balancing Client Work with Publication Goals

A significant challenge discussed is maintaining the focus on clients while pursuing publication opportunities. Larkin advises photographers to prioritize client satisfaction over publication aims to preserve the authenticity and quality of their work.

Key Points:

• Client-Centric Approach: Always prioritize the needs and preferences of your clients during shoots.
• Flexible Mindset: Allow creativity to flow naturally without being constrained by publication requirements.
• Separate Priorities: Treat client work and publication submissions as distinct tasks, ensuring neither impinges on the other.

Notable Quote:

[41:23] Larkin Kendall: "Clients are always number one. Nothing should take precedence over serving them beautifully."

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Do’s and Don’ts for Getting Published

Do’s:

• Integrate Submission into Your Workflow: Make publishing a routine part of your business operations.
• Research Thoroughly: Understand the aesthetic and requirements of each publication before submitting.
• Stay Persistent: Continually submit your work to various publications, understanding that success may take time.

Don’ts:

• Avoid Simultaneous Submissions for the Same Wedding: Submitting the same event to multiple publications concurrently can lead to blacklisting.
• Don’t Let Ego Drive Decisions: Focus on the value publications bring to your business rather than seeking validation.

Notable Quote:

[54:09] Larkin Kendall: "Don’t do that. Don’t do it."

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Challenges with High-End Publications

The conversation delves into the complexities of getting featured in top-tier magazines like Vogue. Larkin shares her personal experience, highlighting the immense pressure and often unfulfilling nature of such high-stakes publishing opportunities.

Key Points:

• Pressure and Expectations: High-end publications can impose stringent requirements, leading to stress and creative burnout.
• Ego vs. Value: Paying for features often serves ego more than providing tangible business benefits.
• Personal Alignment: Success should align with personal values and business goals rather than industry-imposed standards.

Notable Quote:

[24:10] Larkin Kendall: "I would really rather just enjoy it happening naturally. And I think that's an ego thing too."

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Inspirational Stories and Final Thoughts

Larkin shares a compelling story about resubmitting work to a publication that initially rejected it, only to have it accepted months later. This anecdote underscores the importance of persistence and the unpredictable nature of publication success.

Notable Quote:

[56:42] Larkin Kendall: "They told me no, but then the person managing their social media saw it and said, 'Yeah, we would love to print this.'"

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Conclusion

Episode 418 of The Heart & Hustle Podcast offers a comprehensive guide for photographers aiming to get their work published. Larkin Kendall's insights blend practical strategies with personal anecdotes, empowering listeners to navigate the publishing landscape confidently. The episode emphasizes the importance of balancing client-centric work with publication efforts, ensuring that photographers grow their business authentically without compromising their creative integrity.

Closing Quote:

[56:17] Larkin Kendall: "Bring your dominant energy to it and just get started. No's are not about you."

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About the Hosts

Evie McLeod & Lindsay Roman are the dynamic duo behind The Heart & Hustle Podcast. As family and legacy-focused serial entrepreneurs, they empower creative entrepreneurs with practical business tools, lifestyle tips, and motivational truths. Their mission is to help listeners build a legacy-filled life while chasing their God-given dreams.

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Connect with Larkin Kendall

• Social Media: @LorkenKendall
• Website: motherphotographer.com
• Online School: The Mother Photographer (often referred to as MoFo School)

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This summary captures the essence of Episode 418, highlighting key discussions, actionable strategies, and inspirational stories shared by Larkin Kendall. Whether you're a budding photographer or an established professional, the insights from this episode are designed to guide you towards successful publication and business growth.

Transcript

[Lindsay Roman]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are your hosts, Evvi MacLeod and Lindsay Roman. Welcome back to the show, my friend. Now, today, Today's episode is a treat. It is a goldmine for any photographer that is listening. You don't even understand the brilliance that you are about to hear. Okay. Our guest today is internationally published. She's a photographer, artist of 10 years. She is a mother to three sons, a lover of the same person for all lifetimes, an art maniac, a garden junkie, a bibliophile, nay, book hoarder, an empathy addict with occasional nihilistic tendencies.

[Larkin Kendall]

Did I say that word right?

[Evvi MacLeod]

I think it's nihilistic. But continue.

[Lindsay Roman]

We're gonna go with it. And she's a Gemini, if it matters. Today we honor of welcoming. Wow. I cannot even talk. Wow. I fumbled the line of welcoming Larkin Kendall to the show.

[Evvi MacLeod]

This is so.

[Lindsay Roman]

Crowd sounds. Crowd sounds.

[Evvi MacLeod]

We are so overjoyed with having Larkin on. It is long overdue. We said this when we were chatting. It is long overdue having her on the show and this topic today, Larkin brought the heat on the topic of getting published. And this is a, for some, over complicated issue in the photography industry. For others, just daunting, scary. It feels very personal. It feels hard, it feels overwhelming. Whatever it is, or maybe it's just something that you're like, yeah, I just don't think it's important. Let's talk about it today. So today Lin came on and she just dropped freaking fire on the topic of getting published, getting your name out there, publications, submitting your work. And she goes over so many solid tips, tricks, strategies for you, the things to do and not do. There are very few things that you really need to do and only a couple that you need to not do. So listen, take notes. She talked about her personal experience, the pros and cons. Is getting published even important? Is it even worth it? So listen to the episode to get all the good stuff and just tons of information and thoughts on the mindset around shooting a wedding or a session or whatever it is with publications in mind and what to do and not do there and the order of who you should submit to first. Should you submit one at a time? What to do when somebody says no? How old of work can you submit? What publications are often looking for, how to simplify the process and put it into your workflow to streamline it, to make it something that takes 15 to 20 minutes of your time versus 15 to 20 hours of your time. It is such a good episode we covered so much so you need to tune in today.

[Lindsay Roman]

And she did it all with her perfect Larkinsas. So please enjoy. Grab a pencil and paper to write notes, but also grab like a beverage because it's just a good old girl chat time. And so without further ado, let's welcome I cannot talk today. Welcome Larkin on the show.

[Evvi MacLeod]

Ever stop your scroll on Instagram and wonder how the heck photographers snagged those wildly candid moments of their clients? You know, the kind of photographs that make you just sit in awe of how stunning they are and the emotions that you feel from them? We have felt that too. And when we first started out as photographers, our number one goal was to make sure our clients were comfortable and feeling like their true authentic selves. And one of the easiest ways we were able to achieve that was through creative posing prompts.

[Lindsay Roman]

Because here's the truth. If you want to achieve those effortlessly candid, playful and intimate photos, you have to create an environment that allows your couples to feel comfortable to do so. And we are spilling all the tea with some of our favorite directions and prompts in our free photography posing guide. Visit theheartuniversity.comcandid to get your hands on this incredible freebie. Prepare to have your clients rave about how much fun they had with you on their session.

[Larkin Kendall]

Hey.

[Lindsay Roman]

Hey. I'm Lindsey Roman.

[Evvi MacLeod]

And I'm Evie McLeod and we are family and legacy focused serial entrepreneurs and the founders of the Heart University, a business education company with a mission to help you thrive in your business and life.

[Lindsay Roman]

Welcome to our Entrepreneur Cocktail hour where business and marketing strategies meet faith, real talk and raw in life changing conversations.

[Evvi MacLeod]

At the end of the day, we are all in this together, figuring out how to navigate the ups and downs, the messy and the beautiful and everything in between. This is a community where you can come as you are, get inspired and walk away equipped to build a legacy filled life.

[Lindsay Roman]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. Sa.

[Larkin Kendall]

Foreign.

[Lindsay Roman]

Welcome to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are so excited to finally have you on and it's been a long time coming. Welcome. Welcome to the show.

[Larkin Kendall]

Thank you guys so much for having me. You're both just lovely. You look so pretty over there.

[Lindsay Roman]

You have had us like pinned to the ground in laughter right before we've started recording because you are just hysterical and this energy needed to be in.

[Evvi MacLeod]

Our lives right now 100% and on this podcast, this is like overdue.

[Larkin Kendall]

So I'm so happy to bring it. I'm happy to be here. I'm excited about what we're going to talk about today, too.

[Evvi MacLeod]

Heck, yeah. Same.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, let's get into it. But before we do, introduce yourself for anybody that might be living under a rock and does not know who you are or hasn't heard of you. Introduce yourself, tell us where you live, all the things, what you do, all the good stuff.

[Larkin Kendall]

First of all, how dare you if you're living under a rock and you don't know me? My name is Larkin. Larkin Kendall. I am a internationally published wedding photographer. Photographer. I started in 2015. I started. Actually, it's just as a side quest. I started because I got evicted with my family from our home, and my husband lost his job. Didn't know that. And so I had to do something to generate income. And I was eight months pregnant with my second child. So people had always been asking me, like, hey, I see what you're posting on the Facebooks from your kid. Would you like to photograph my family? And I was like, no, I'm good. But then I was like, yeah, I will actually do it. And then I got so hooked on it, and I went from there to taking weddings off Craigslist just to see if I could do it. Because it's really surprising, actually, when you dig into the world of Craigslist, what people are asking for on there, don't go too deep into it, but they want free weddings, free wedding photography quite a bit on there. So you can kind of just like, test out and see how. What your threshold is for it. And I got really addicted. And so from there, my career just spiraled. And I actually feel like I made my career what it is based on one choice that I made on the subject of what we're going to talk about today, which is getting published, because I took. I threw a Hail Mary, so we'll come back to that. But I'm a homeschool mom. I have three kids. Three boys, 16, 11, and 8. And I just lead this, like, really, really beautifully disgusting farm life with a super hot man that I objectify all the time. And I run the Mother Photographer, which is an online school. It's. I call it a school for photographers because membership implies, you know, it's kind of a passive thing. My school is like, no, mommy's home. I'm on your ass. We're gonna. We're gonna make change for you. So that's what I'm doing. That's who I be.

[Lindsay Roman]

All right.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I feel like anyone who didn't know you, Larkin, just that alone, they have also now fallen in love with you.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's perfect.

[Larkin Kendall]

So many people. Just turn the podcast off. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I feel like it's probably the opposite. They're sending to friends. Haven't even listened. Two minutes in, they' this chicken.

[Larkin Kendall]

Fingers crossed.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I love it. Okay, well, we are talking about getting published publications, and you kind of gave us a little teaser. Do you want to touch on that or do you want to just kind of like.

[Larkin Kendall]

I think it's kind of. You're probably going to ask me anyway how I first got published.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, that's exactly the first question.

[Larkin Kendall]

So let me just take it away. So what happened was I did. I wanted to get into weddings, right? So I shot. As I was saying, I was doing some things off Craigslist, they weren't really aesthetically what I wanted to see, but I was learning a lot, and I was doing it for some really cool, ish people. So I was. I got in touch with, like, a local designer, and I was like, hey, girl, I would love to photograph your wedding. I have this beautiful farm, and I have this, like, cutie couple that will model for me, and I'll photograph your dresses. And she was like, sweet. So I put together this, like, look, and I photographed these photos. And then what I did was I submitted them to my local regional blog. And everybody has. No matter what state, county, city you're on, there's little, tiny blogs out there that are wedding blogs that are trying to make it to be one of the big boys. And I think that those are often the most overlooked. And we can get into that later if you want. But I submitted to them, and then they published. They were like, yeah, we'll take it. But then two months later, Brides magazine reaches out to me because of the jewelry, how I designed her, like, put the jewelry on her and stuff. And they're like, we're looking for this moody. Because at the time, I was real dark and moody. We were looking for this moody bridal aesthetic. And we want to. We want to do one of your portraits in Brides magazine. And I was like, oh, okay, sick. So I got an in with this editor there, and this all happened in a very short span of time. Then cut to probably one month off of that. They publish it really quickly in an online article. I'm like, sweet. I see one of my friend's friends is newly engaged, and she lives in Dallas. So I totally lie to this woman. And I'm like, hey, girl, you don't know me, but we have a Shared friend. And I would love. I'm coming to Dallas for work. No, I wasn't. And I would love to do some engagement photos for free for you guys. And she was like, that would be amazing. And so I went to her house and I spent like three hours with them taking these photos. And at the end I was like, listen, I know this is crazy, but she had already told me she was getting married in San Miguel de Allende. And it's called the heart of Mexico. It's a beautiful city. I'm sure you guys know it. And so she had pitched me this idea of her wedding. This like, what it was gonna look like. Cause we were talking about it throughout this session. So at the end I was like, hey, would love to do it for travel only. I'm wanting to get into the international market. I love Mexico. I'd never been. I love the idea of it. Would love to go there with you and photograph your wedding. And I will give you. I'll cover you from start to finish. So I just like threw myself into the fire. And she was like, we would love it. And so what I did was I took her pitch that she told me. She's like, it's gonna be Jimi Hendrix has a backyard fies in the heart of Mexico. And I took that and I took her Instagram profile. She's a jewelry designer. Her name is Opal Milk. She makes these beautiful pieces. And I sent that to the contact who had reached out to me at Brides, and I said, listen, I'm gonna shoot this wedding in six months. And I'm curious how I would get it published with you guys. And they wrote me back and they're like, well, the pitch sounds amazing. She looks really cool. Send us the gallery within a week of the wedding. And so that's what I did. And I just curated it and I sent it over and I did the sweating for free. I mean, like now I would charge tens of tens of twenties of. You know, it would be a lot of money because of the four days. And I worked from sun up to sundown on that wedding. I was shooting constantly. Worth it, though. You have to. You have to sacrifice, right? If you want. If you want the big.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, especially at the beginning, 100%.

[Larkin Kendall]

Oh, for sure, for sure. So anyways, Brides gets back to me and they're like, listen, we actually want to print this wedding. It's really beautiful. We love the aesthetic. And so I actually got that wedding printed in the February issue of the magazine. And it was an eight page spread.

[Evvi MacLeod]

Oh my gosh.

[Larkin Kendall]

And I had no idea that that was even a thing, that they were going to be like, hey, we could actually print it. And so I started my career alongside my publishing journey as well and being published. So I saw the immediate value because they shared to their audience. And even the apple brides, the first time I got, they shared to their audience. And how do I think brides found it? Because the little blog had done all the work and hired all the experts because they want to grow. And those bigger magazines and publications, they're always sourcing photographs and stuff for their articles and whatever they're working on so that they can push content too. So it's sort of this symbiosis and this cycle that feeds themselves. And so people always think, I have to get that top blog. I have to get green wedding shoes or I'm a failure or June Bug and I'm a failure. No, it's actually going for the little guy is the best way to do it first.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh my gosh. I love before we kind of like, well, we've already dived off the deep end, but. But before we get even further, before we go nitpicky, can you almost combat the. I think there's a lie or a misconception out there in the industry that like pub. Like, how does publication get you actual more clients? Or like, how does it.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I feel like a lot of people think it's just. What's that called?

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes, it's just clout, which there is value, I think in that. But like, yeah, I want the unpacking of all that.

[Larkin Kendall]

So clout is the very last ego. Anything to do with that is the very last reason you should do anything, especially publication, because you're going to get your feelings hurt. And if you're coddling your ego, you're not going to do it if you're letting your ego lead your decisions. So especially when it comes to publications, like, I get no's all the time. I still get no's to this day. And I think that people need to realize it's not even about getting new clients in the way that you think it is. It's not because Brides has millions of followers and they post your work or vogue that you're immediately going to get followers. You might get some followers, but it's about SEO, it's about search engine optimization. Because what those blogs are doing is they have experts, teams of experts who are properly pinning your stuff on Pinterest. I hate Pinterest, but my shit's all over it, it's because of being published. And then you're also getting your website linked back to these huge websites that are already recognized by Google as being significant sources of real information. And that's what you want. Catalina Jean I don't know if you guys know who she is, but she's SEO high priestess, Queen of the world. She's lovely. So she has taught me so much about SEO and she just left put out a video talking about how SEO is essentially how Google reads your website. You have to see the photos. You're just explaining to it, hey, this is what I do. And so you want things optimized so it can read it for you. Those blogs are hiring people who know to the letter who are surgeons at SEO and they're doing the SEO not only for their website blogs, but like I said, Pinterest. And they're also doing it with Instagram. So you're getting SEO index across the board. So your stuff's coming up all over the place for search terms that you're not even ranking for on your website.

[Evvi MacLeod]

Yeah, well, and it doesn't SEO like very specifically. Look, if you have like backlinks and links from these big established, well known websites like your website becomes significantly more credible to Google. Like the SEO reading when you have these features and links to and from other.

[Lindsay Roman]

Which then makes you easier to find for clients that are trying to.

[Evvi MacLeod]

It helps you rank better.

[Larkin Kendall]

Yeah, 100%. You're, you're being bumped up. And even those little blogs, they're doing the dirty work. They're in the trenches, they're working even harder, which is why I just love the little blogs. So I'm always going for those guys too. And maybe we'll, maybe I'm jumping ahead probably. But there's this misconception that you only have to submit to one place. Yeah, but that is absolutely not true. And I actually just had the editor of Green Wedding Shoes on my little private podcast for Mother Photographer and she was talking about that they actually will take work from two years back. So your work that's two years old and they will publish it and they now have a 90 day exclusive. So after 90 days is over, you can resubmit to someone else, which is amazing. So you can hit the big boys. I'm always like, go get a big boy and then go to the little fish too and double dip. And it's for free. It's about putting it into your workflow in a way that you don't have to really think about it. And there I Mean, I think that I have mastered that personally, because I've done it. I always try to find a home for everything. And you might have heard me say that, you know, in various places, but that's what I mean. Finding home for everything is finding a place that will publish your work because you're getting paid back dividends. It's so worth the 15 or 20 minutes of time that it takes you to fill out the submission questionnaire. And if you're doing things right, you're cutting that time in half and you're barely spending any time on it, and the benefit is just massive.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I love it. Okay, wait. There's so much. There's so much I want to uncover. Can you touch on your workflow? Because I think there's a common misconception with a lot of photographers, and I have felt this, lived this, believed this, that publication requires hours upon hours upon hours upon hours upon hours of work, research attempts, submissions for one wedding. And so it's so much work. Like, I have tons of coaching students who are like, it's so much work. But you just said 15, 20 minutes and putting it in your workflow. So I. I would love to hear you kind of break down, like, what that looks like for you.

[Larkin Kendall]

Are you. Are you doing a preview gallery when you.

[Evvi MacLeod]

Yes.

[Larkin Kendall]

Do weddings? Okay, so that's your submission gallery, too. Bada bing, bada boom. That's what I do. Like, I'm just all about, like, doing the least, you know, and, like, where can I cut back on doing the least? Like I said, I have this crazy farm life, and my. My kids are always around. They're literally always here, homeschooling, they're homeschooled. And so it's like, I have to find places where I can cut things down in life. And this is one of the ways where I could implement it into my workflow in a way that felt very intuitive and not have to take steps back each time I was doing editing a wedding. So I use my preview gallery. When I'm calling my preview gallery, I'm calling it for submission as well. The client doesn't know why. You know, they don't understand why there's both vertical and they don't care and landscape of their detail shots, you know, they're like, I don't care. It's beautiful. But I do those with the people who are going to have eyes on it, going through it for publishing in mind, because what I like to do is say, hey, since I've learned over time that they might say, hey, let's print it. That just happened to me. We can talk about this a little while ago where I submitted it again for digital publication. They're like, let's print it. One of the things that I've learned to do is submit both vertical and landscape options for each part of the day that I'm highlighting. Because then I don't. If they come back and say, hey, do you have this in landscape? I hate. Excuse me, having to go back and dig for shit. Like, I hate it. I will, I will do anything to avoid it at all costs. So that's one of the things that I take into consideration is do I have options if they say, hey, let's print this. That's already in the gallery so I don't have to bug myself later. Like, I just. I can't be bothered.

[Evvi MacLeod]

Yeah, that's so good simplifying.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay, can we back up to. I don't know if I want to.

[Larkin Kendall]

You know what? I'm sorry, can I add a piece of that? Let me interrupt you. I hope you didn't lose that question.

[Lindsay Roman]

Nope, that's fine.

[Larkin Kendall]

The other thing that I do as part of my workflow is I have the question. The questionnaire that I send to my clients serves as. It has all the information that I would need for submission. So the pre wedding questionnaire, I'm just copying pasting. I'm not having to really burn any calories trying to come up with the answers for everything or dig for everything. I pull up my questionnaire, I put it side by side with the submission form, and I just copy and paste over. So the clients are doing that legwork for me, and that's also information I need to know. Anyway, so I build it into part of their pre wedding questionnaire, which you can get on my website if you want it. Yeah, girl. Anyways. Yeah, so that's how I've had it built into my. My workflow.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay, so you've mentioned a couple of things like horizontal and vertical images, but then you've also mentioned like, oh, I know what questions I want to ask my couples in order to frame it for publication. What would be the information? Like, how do people know? Maybe you'll just tell us. I don't know. But like, how do people know what publications are looking for? Whether that's like what words or like what story to tell or then what specific photos they're looking for.

[Larkin Kendall]

Yeah, so you need to kind of. I always recommend everybody keep a list. Do your research ahead of time. Like do it in the off season to Prepare for the season that you're going into and go in and say, okay, who are the, who are my goals? Like, what are the goals for me when I'm thinking about, I would love to have my work publisher here. And that's an egocentric choice, but go for it because shoot for the stars. So go through, see what they're liking, put them on the list. Then start researching your regional blogs and see what they're. I always look at the questionnaire too, just to see if it's changed or if I get any inspo for what I need to add to my pre wedding questionnaire. So be aware of what they're asking for that you can pass on to your clients to cut that time down that you're having to spend. But also you need to be very realistic. Stick with yourself about whether the wedding that you're submitting fits the tone of that publication. Because sometimes we're like, why didn't I get it? I was so beautiful. But really darling, like this shit over here is light and airy and you're so dark and moody like it doesn't fit or you know, like it's, it's about. Or the. Actually, a lot of times the opposite applies. Like a lot of places like that, that sort of like bubbly, lightning vibe. And so they're not going to go with someone who likes to photograph things a little bit darker. So be very aware of whether the aesthetic of the wedding that you are submitting fits the aesthetic of that blog and get realistic with yourself about that 100%. I think people just, and then they feel like they, they got a no and they get their feelings hurt. But really the no was on you, darling. It was your fault. But there's also another reason that people get a no that I think they really don't consider and that's because of trends. So they have already seen that wedding style four times and they don't have room for it in their publication schedule anymore. So you kind of want to, as soon as you shoot a wedding, you want to ship it off immediately and hope that you beat the rush. Because if they have too much of one vibe, even if it's beautiful, even if it's the most, the best wedding you've ever photographed and it's so gorgeous and it was a million dollars, they might say no because we already have too much of this trend for this year in the publication schedule. So it's not always like, you're shit. You should probably quit taking photos. No, it's, it's probably Never that, actually, I would bet that it is never. You can tell yourself that all you want, but there's a myriad reasons why you get a no. Sometimes it's because you just really didn't do your research and you were just like, I'm just gonna go for it. And then other times it's that they just. Their publication schedule is too full. But that's the beautiful thing is that you can save that and try to submit it again next year because like I said, all of them will take work that's two years old now.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I love it. Dodge just opened. I was like, oh, heck yeah. I have a backlog of stuff I need to work on.

[Larkin Kendall]

Get in there.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I love it. I have a very, very, very niche specific question, but I just want to get this out there because I've seen this discussed in the photography industry. I have thoughts, but I want yours specifically when it comes to publication. I have seen lots of discussions in the wedding industry around paying for a publication, specifically paying to be featured in like, like, you probably know the like Vogue or different like ones where it's like almost like a little advertisement and you're like paying for a little like advertising.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like you put it on your bio.

[Evvi MacLeod]

It's like, yeah, like as seen in Vogue or whatever. I'm just curious what your thoughts are on that because I've seen people have very strong opinions on both sides of that and I want to know what you think.

[Larkin Kendall]

I mean, I am a do you person at the end of the day, but for me it feels. It feels like shit. I also think that you're getting taken advantage of, you know, like you're paying money and for what? For like a paid badge type thing. For me, I would really rather just enjoy it happening naturally. And I think that's an ego thing too. You have to really check yourself and say, am I doing this because I don't feel good enough without this? And that's where you should really invest your time and your money is in fixing that part and what's going on there with yourself. I just don't think that we should have to pay because what we're doing also is we're paying them to feature us, but we're the ones doing all the work, you know, like it's, it's our product. And it's so interesting because we're one of the only industries, like think about this in terms of other wedding vendors, right? We love other wedding vendors. Usually if we don't love them, we don't have to give them the Photos. And I reserve the right to tell you to go. You know, if you're. If you're a planner and you're a bitch to me, like, I'm so sorry. Wrong move. You made it. You will learn. You go and learn today. Because I'm all about teamwork, makes the dream work. And I love working with my people so much, but, you know, you run into people. But one of the things that we do as part of that is we give our only product away for free. Right. So we give it to the florist, and we give it to the planner, and we give it to the cake baker, and we give it to the people who did the invites. So they're getting the literal only thing we charge forever for absolutely free. And that's a. That's a beautiful thing. And you can choose to do that. I also am very much like, if you want to charge a little bit for that, that's fine. One of the things that I do to protect myself and my interest in those photographs is I have them sign a licensing agreement. Now, I'm not charging them anything unless I so choose to if they get on the wrong side. But I usually. I like, rarely ever happens. But I think it's really important that we take that into consideration when we're entering into agreements like that. So you're paying for a bad job and you're paying to be published once. Yeah. But, like, really, is it worth what's. What are you getting out of it other than just a little pat to the ego? And even though, yeah, you're getting published and they're doing, you know, that one SEO job for you, it's like, you could get that for free in so many other places and have your work spread around so much more. So I just think, really, that's. That's something that is between them and themselves, the reasoning behind it, but that should be evaluated for sure. I just don't think it's worth it. And as somebody who's been through that, you know, I. Who did I sign up for the knot? Who hasn't. Who hasn't had a sordid affair with the knot? You know, where you're paying for it? And I'm still getting inquiries, and they want to pay $1,500 for a full wedding day. And I'm like, probably not. Probably not.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's cute.

[Larkin Kendall]

Yeah, that's. I'm just. I'm a little. I've been here for a while. I think it's a little. A little more than that. But those are the things that you have to really, you know, look at and say, is this worth it? And I have. I don't. I can't even think of anybody that I know. And I'm sure someone's gonna get in the comments and be like, oh, well, I make. Okay, I get that. I'm very happy for you. But I think overall you're gonna find that most people don't get anything out of that experience other than being hounded for 10 years with phone calls and then wanting you to rejoin. So just be considerate about the work and put value at the work that you're doing in the minutes of your life, because that is your only non renewable resource and you are spending it making this beautiful work. Yes, absolutely. And you're getting to document, get into other people's snow globes and document what's going on with them. It's a beautiful job. So value it. Really value it and say, is this worth it or is this just an ego thing? And if the answers to that are no and then yes, you need to go ahead and start looking at other places and eventually it will come to you if it's meant to happen. I've never been published in Vogue. I've had one photo used in like an article thing years ago, but I've never been published and I'm doing perfectly fine, I can assure you.

[Evvi MacLeod]

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[Lindsay Roman]

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[Evvi MacLeod]

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[Lindsay Roman]

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[Evvi MacLeod]

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[Lindsay Roman]

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[Evvi MacLeod]

I think that's one of those things. I can't agree with what you said more. Yeah, and it's like at the end of the day, do what you want to do. You know, whatever I see photographers go for it. And I'm like, hey, if that feels aligned and it feels good and you're willing to make that investment for that reason, whatever, absolutely fine. But I've noticed in the higher end price point wedding photography world that in like education and other higher end photographers, like the luxury world, however you want to call it, but when you reach like the 10,000 plus, 20,000 plus price point, there comes this pressure of like you have to be featured in People Vogue X, Y, Z. And if you're not, it almost feels like you, you are not in that industry. But I feel like that was so freeing. Even just that last little tidbit lurkin of like, I've never been featured in Vogue and like you're thriving. You've been featured a myriad of other places and it's at the end of the day sometimes just comes down to like an ego thing like you're saying of like check yourself, where's that coming from? Do you actually feel like you need some of these credible publications to stand out to these high end planners or you know, X, Y and Z to really move your business forward. Awesome. Then put in the work, like actually submit to those publications versus almost like taking the easy route of being like, I just want to be able to say Vogue. So I'm going to pay eighteen hundred dollars or however much I think it's a ridiculous amount of money from what I've heard.

[Larkin Kendall]

Yeah, it's a lot of money. I've heard it's a lot of money. Yeah. To me, the benefits are worth it. But, you know, if. If eighteen hundred dollars is nothing for you, if you're not going to miss it, go ahead. And if you are in that super high world, I mean, I feel like I am in that super high world, but I do have. I have a cutoff price because I found that when I move above a certain price, I literally hate the people. Like, I'm like, you're dead behind the eyes, so I don't want to work for you. And I'm not going to be someone's servant and I'm not going to be, you know, like, I can't. I literally refuse to be a service. I am an artist who serves through art, and I will. I don't care how anybody else feels about that. I know people who have. Who, like, thrive as being a photography service and they love it and they have, you know, like, big boundaries in their business, and their business is so separate from them personally. But I can't untangle it. And I've tried to untangle it, and it really led me down a really rough path for a little while with clients that I absolutely loathed. And I just was, I'm never doing that again. And so if you look at it like that and you're like, yeah, I need this, because in this world, everybody has it and the planners are only recommending people. That's a great. To me, that's a valid reason. You know, if it's a business decision where your ego is not a part of it, go for it. I really don't care how people want to spend their time and what they want to do. I can have an opinion on anything, you know, to be perfectly honest. But at the end of the day, I'm just like, do whatever you need to do that, you know, gets you where you want to go.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I love that.

[Lindsay Roman]

I would love to almost pivot the conversation back to the beginner that's starting their business. And I think, I think a lot of people, there's this dichotomy of, like, we want. We're starting off, we're charging cheap because we just have to. To get in the door. Right. And we're getting clients that probably aren't throwing the fanciest or trendiest of weddings, especially at the beginning. And there's an element, and I like what you said earlier of just like, be self aware, babe. Like, like, don't submit something that doesn't match the vibe. But I almost. Is there an element of, like, don't submit something that it doesn't look good. Okay.

[Larkin Kendall]

I mean, okay, this is a. Let's get dirty. Let's get dirty with it. So I think about this. I look at that first thing that I told you I submitted that was published, right? It's total shit. It's total shit. Looking back at all my work, I'm like, how did you hire me? Looking back at my first realm of weddings, like, from where I am now, I'm like, oh, oh, God.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yikes.

[Larkin Kendall]

But I'm happy that they're happy with them, you know, And I'm grateful to them because they let me grow through them and through the experience of them. So there is that moment. But I think, you know, you have to just take the leap too. Like, there's a. There's a balance, as always. There's a neutralizing force. You can be so binary in the way that you think about things, but there's a balance in saying, it might not be the best work that I'm gonna do in my life, but it looks like it matches aesthetically. So let's just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. And that's so much of what I did over my career with everything. I was just always throwing shit at the wall and seeing what stuck. And I just feel like safety is the enemy of success, right? Like, you don't want to just stay here and say, oh, that's. That's too scary. I can't do that, and I'm okay right here. And I'll wait until I get to that point, and then I'll do it. No, just go for it. Just cut your ego, cut your thinking mind out of it, and just go for it. But like I said, the only thing you really need to be realistic about is just. Is this within this brand's aesthetic? That's really it. And just submit, submit, submit. And this is a. That's a great point, because if you're just starting out, maybe you should go for the little fish. Maybe you should look and say, hey, what's my regional blog like? Ours is Apple Brides, and it's very specific to Eastern Washington, where I live. And there's more that have popped up around that I don't even know about, but I've, like, seen peripherally. So there's so many options. And they love the work. They want the content so badly because they're building a business. So you're actually kind of growing up together. You're two little babies, you know, get in the play pit together and share your Toys. And so that's what I encourage people to do is just get in there, get your shit seen by whoever is willing to take it for you and move on and then just rinse and repeat that cycle.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I love it.

[Lindsay Roman]

I think that's such a brilliant perspective to have because I think so many people like me included, especially when I started, I was just like, oh, I don't have like quote unquote aesthetic or trendy work or like the weddings that I'm shooting. Wow, it's like beautiful people and like, like I love them but like, wow, they didn't have, I don't know, insert any sort of wedding trend. Like, so I can't submit it because it's not, it doesn't have like a tablescape that looks beautiful. It's like, oh, wow, the silverware was plastic. Okay, well now that's out. It's like, I feel like we, we get ourselves in that cycle.

[Larkin Kendall]

You can spiral. You can spiral.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. So that's, I think such a great perspective to have is just like, hey, find the aesthetics and like, be a little self aware of just like, okay, maybe don't go for a big dog if you're a small dog. Yeah.

[Larkin Kendall]

And it's fine anyway, like just. And also like grow your confidence that it's a great practice to just growing confidence in what you do and in your ability to be. Because that's like a business thing, right? Like that's a business decision. And when you're so art, like you're art centered, you're a creative human, it's hard to be that business person as well. And so getting published is a business decision. So it helps you kind of sharpen your teeth in that sector of your life as well and grow your confidence there and show it for yourself in that way. I think it's really a beautiful, a beautiful practice to just exercise. Even if you keep getting those, you keep coming back, you keep coming back. My first weddings that I had published had plastic silverware and paper place settings. But I made sure that I kind of like hit those elements by wrapping in a nice napkin. Like you have power as a photographer to create an aesthetic. It's a rectangle that you're filling. Fill it with whatever you want, make it look however you want it to be perceived. And if you go into your weddings with the idea of, I'm going to not only serve myself, but I'm here to serve this person and their life experience, it's a symbiosis. Right. But I'm also thinking on terms Of I would love to see this story displayed somewhere else. Let me shoot with that in mind as well. So you're balancing those three perspectives as you go into your work. You're going to be prepared.

[Evvi MacLeod]

Yeah, that's so. Good question for you, Larkin. Have you ever experienced shooting a wedding day? It doesn't sound like it, but I'm just curious if you have thoughts on this. Shooting a wedding day and feeling like you're struggling to juggle shooting with a publication in mind and shooting solely for the clients. Like, have you ever struggled to balance the two or. It almost feels like one is winning out over the other, and it feels like you're not doing your job well in either one. Does that make sense?

[Larkin Kendall]

I mean. Yes, it absolutely does. I think that the thing is, we can plan all we want, but when we walk into a day or any. Any type of session, like, it's gonna be what it's gonna be, and you have to let go of your own expectations at that point, too. So I always go into it, you know, trying to balance those things, but it's not. I let it go. I release it. Because, too, like, the more I hang on to an expectation or a set of, like, parameters I'm trying to work in, the less I cut myself off from my creative genius and what I want to be doing during the work. And it's so chaotic at weddings anyway. But I'm so addicted to stress. That's why I thrive in it. I'm sure you guys can relate. I'm like, give it to me. Stress me out. So I cut off that access to that creative genius that's just waiting to be like, hey, hey, can you hear me? Because I'm running all of these things through my mind that I need to just not be bothered with, because I'm there to do the one thing that I absolutely love to do, and that's to make photographs. And so I try not to. I just try to go in with a reminder of, hey, these three things. This is what I want to do. And if I forget, I forget, you know, don't hang on so tightly. You want to remove. One of my main things in life is I want to remove importance from almost all things. I don't want to have this graspy energy because all suffering is about the self, right? So I don't want to have this constant, like, pool, and I need, need, need, need, and I have to, have to, have to. I try to just completely avoid that. So I'll say, hey, I would love this. I would love to focus on these three things. I would love if this happened at the shoot. But as soon as I start shooting, I just try to go blank as much as possible.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I love it. I feel like that's when it comes to, like, shooting with publications in mind. Because publications do tend to want certain things. They want a lot of the details. They want a lot of, you know, the, the tablescapes, the flat lays, the florals, the arrangements, the seating areas. Like, they want all of those things. And obviously as photographers, we want to document them as well. But there have been weddings for me where I know, like, I've gone into a. A super high end wedding. And like, the planner has told me, like, hey, I have a conversation with whoever, whatever high end magazine or something, and we're gonna try to get this published. We have an inn. They're waiting to see the gallery from this wedding. And I'm like, oh, pressure. And I felt something shift, kind of like you're saying a shift in me where I suddenly feel disconnected from, like, both my clients and what they're needing and wanting, who they are. My ultimate goal at that point, to serve them well. But I also feel like I lose the beauty of the art that I'm creating because I'm thinking in formulaic terms of I must capture this exact detail. And the bartender shaking this. And if I don't capture this, and it's like I missed a moment with the bride and her grandma behind me, and I'm like, that, to me is more important than the bartender shaking a drink because that might get published. So I've learned that. But while I can, like you said, keep a recognition of, like, hey, if I can capture X, Y and Z, that'd be great. But my clients remain number one to me. Publication in my brain that's helped me kind of balance those two is I don't allow them to fight for priority anymore. In my brain, my clients are always number one. And I'm really proud of the work that I create for my clients. And I think that's beautiful. And if publications love it, then awesome, they're gonna love it. But I never want to change how I'm shooting for my clients. If I can grab a few extra shots here and there that a publication will love, I will. And if I can't, that's fine. I'm getting the moments for my clients or the things that are important. So at least for me, I have experienced that, like, same with you. Like, that struggle, the tug, and like the disconnect where I'm. I Lose the passion, the creativity, the things that really matter. And I think with a lot of photographers, that can actually become harmful, where if we're thinking too much with publications in mind, then we stop serving our clients to the fullest extent of what we could if we just kind of let publications almost remain secondary. So I don't know if you would agree with that phrasing of like, primary, secondary, but that's how I balance the two. And that's where I found a lot of, like, beauty in what I'm creating is like, primary, secondary, first shot. If I can grab the shot behind me, I can.

[Larkin Kendall]

I absolutely agree. That is. That should be your primary.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right.

[Larkin Kendall]

Because they hired you.

[Evvi MacLeod]

Yeah.

[Larkin Kendall]

And they were drawn to something in your work and you're there to serve them. So, yeah, 100%. Putting the client at the top of that. Like, think about it as a triangle and clients at the top and then you and then the publication. I don't. I don't. Seriously, I don't, like, go throughout my wedding day and think, oh, a publication would love this. No, I just say, oh, I'm gonna turn my camera horizontal for this point, 05 seconds. And then that's the. All of the brain space that a publication gets from me. And I have found. I shot a wedding a couple. Couple years ago in Greece and they were already prepped to pitch it to Vogue. So Vogue is interesting because you have to be. And just so people understand this too, you have to be famous. Famous adjacent or having like an out of the world expensive. Not only expensive, but very aesthetically unique, detailed situation. There has to be multiple outfits. There's got to be a lot going on, or you have to just be. Have some sort of really great. It's at Vogue. Yeah, they're very particular. And this wedding, I had it handed into me that it was going to be looked at by Vogue. And I think I love the wedding, I love the photographs, but I had to absolutely cut myself off from that because like I said, I've never been in Vogue before. Who doesn't want to be in Vogue? It's great. I wanted them to want my work because it was my work, though. And I truly made some of the best work that I have made, you know, up to that time. I loved the work that I made there, but I saw myself when I did, like, I like to do this practice, like, zoom out. Right. So when I'm starting to just feel overtaken by anxiety or any sort of, like, manic feelings, because I'm not a person that gets Depressed. I'm a person that goes away in the other direction, and I go insane. And so I'm just, like, crazy manic. Can't sit down. So when I start to do that, I now have this practice that I, like, zoom out, right? And I look at my life as if through binoculars, and I say, what's really, like, the deal? What. What's important? What's not important? Where am I placing that excess importance? And for that wedding, it was that Vogue thing. It was like the editor was on my shoulder, like, hey, you're probably pretty shit at this, so probably not going to be great. We're probably not going. And so I had to be like, listen, no, get. No, I'm done. And if they take it, they take it. And if they don't, they don't. It's not the end of the world for me at all. I wanted to make work that I was proud of and work that I loved and work that served my couple in the best way possible. So I had to go through that with that process, too, because I actually found that I hated. It wasn't the same as when brides was like, yeah, send it to us. It was, like, such a different thing because there were PR people involved. You know, there were. So. There was all these different layers of things going on, and I just felt like I really almost let myself spiral over that. So I just. I don't like to consider them because it totally takes you out. Other than just horizontal landscape, that's the only consideration they're getting from me.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I love it.

[Larkin Kendall]

If I carry them around with me, they're taking me out of my art. They're sponging off of me, and I'm just not willing to do that.

[Evvi MacLeod]

Oh, that's amen.

[Lindsay Roman]

Who was it? Did I hear this with you? But who was the photographer that did? Hannah. She's, like, a bachelor. She got married in Paris. Hannah Godwin. Godwin, Something like that. I think it Was it Biba. I think so. Did I make that up? I heard from somebody that because people. Because Hannah Godwin is, like, famous. Not even adjacent. I think she's famous Bachelor. Yeah. Bachelor World. She. I. I heard that, like, People magazine was contracted, and I feel like this happens probably a lot with famous people's weddings where they are.

[Evvi MacLeod]

They have the exclusive.

[Lindsay Roman]

They have the exclusive. I think I heard that Biba didn't sleep for, like, quite literally, like, four days post wedding, because they wanted the entire full gallery, like, immediately for, like. And so I would assume with, like, high publications, like, that it's like, that's.

[Evvi MacLeod]

That's a lot of pressure.

[Larkin Kendall]

Oh, yeah, they want it. They want it bad. Yep.

[Lindsay Roman]

They want it immediately. But it's like, is it worth it? Like, no, it's not.

[Larkin Kendall]

It was. It was a straw. Honestly, it was a stressful nightmare. And I remember telling my husband, I was like, super hot farmer husband. It's not worth it. It's just not. I was like, to the point of, like, tears. Because we traveled around the world, you know, like, I took my whole family to Greece. I grew up, like, you know, I think it's that old story. Like, we. I had a food stamp existence and, you know, shared a one bedroom apart with my mom and sister. And so I never went anywhere. And when I finally started doing this, I was like, wow, I'm. I'm seeing the world, and I wanted my children to experience that. So this was the first international trip that we were going to go on. And that client was amazing. They, like, set us up at this beautiful house, and it was amazing. They invited my family to the wedding, that Grease client. But I remember we were so exhausted. And just a hot tip, like, if you're gonna go international and you're gonna shoot a wedding international, schedule the wedding for like, five or six days into your trip. Because I shot that wedding two days after I got there. And I have never had jet lag like that in my whole life. And I had never had jet lag before. Even though I traveled before, I don't know how I got lucky, but this was the worst jet lag I've ever had in my life. So just as a consideration for you, put it somewhere toward the middle end. I wish I had done that, but I still totally forgot what I was saying. See what I'm saying?

[Evvi MacLeod]

You brought your family trip.

[Larkin Kendall]

Yep. Yep, I brought my family. And when I came. We came back, I was exhausted, having run the kids around the world, and I had to deliver that gallery, and people were emailing me. The PR people were emailing me. Her team was emailing me, and I was just like, oh, my God. And it just wasn't. They didn't take it. They didn't take it, by the way, in the end. And I was like, you know what that feels? Feels fine. It felt really fine about it. I actually just. Sometimes I feel that when. Or actually, like, I know that when I have this very particular feeling that what I'm doing is something I'm not meant to be doing or that's not gonna work out, and that's the feeling that I had when I was, like, going through that process with Vogue, it wasn't that wedding. That wedding was beautiful. It was just. I somehow knew on a cellular level that all of this energy that I was exerting was for nothing. I don't know.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, I love it.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I think that's. Everything you're saying is like, we're all just reiterating, like, priority and. And the value, not only the priority of, like, on a wedding day, you know, shooting for our couples, first and foremost, exclusively, and then whatever. But even in your life as you're submitting to work or, you know, we're talking about, like, oh, my gosh, can you imagine people exclusive? That would be awesome. Like, every photographer in the back of our heads, if we haven't really stared at this opportunity in the face and seen it for all its great and ugly, like, attributes or, you know, things that come with it, we would think that is when I'll have made it, when I'm published in Vogue or when I've gotten the people exclusive or whatever. But then you come down to like, hey, what's it actually like to shoot a celebrity wedding? Or what is required to have a people, except exclusive? What does it look like to shoot for Vogue? Or how, you know, what are they looking for? How demanding is that process? And it's just like, when you actually really step back, like, you're saying, lin, to be able to be like, hey, at the end of the day, getting just accolades for the sake of accolades. If it's not aligned to serve my clients, to, you know, build the life I want with my family, whatever, then it. It's just not my number one priority. And it just needs to, like, like, kind of fall down the. The ladder of, like, importance or deep pursuit or meaning of, like, I've arrived, whatever you want to call it, it's just kind of aligning, like, priorities in everything that you're doing, even when it comes to publication, which I think is really cool to talk about, because often I think publications, it's like, oh, well, you'll have made it when you get to Vogue. But we're all kind of sitting here being like, yeah, that's great. That's awesome. If it falls into your lap and if it falls into place and everything comes into alignment, it's the right time, right place, right wedding. That's awesome. But, like, don't make that your end all, be all goal in your life. If you're getting the results in your business and serving the clients that you want and at the Price point. You want also getting published in your regional publications. Like, those are awesome. Like, I, I feel like we're just talking about priorities.

[Larkin Kendall]

No, we absolutely are. And the thing about Vogue is, I think why Vogue seems to be like this unicorn that everybody wants to capture is because it's, it's someone else's goal. It's like we've adopted this goal that does not actually belong to us. If we sat down and thought about it, like, do you really care about Vogue? Do you. Have you been obsessed with it your whole life and you're just like, yes, I want to see my images glossed in this beautiful magazine. For me, it would be a bonus. I would love to have it. But do I really care? No. The answer is no. And I thought that I did. But yeah, when I really had a good look at it, I was like, no. And truly it's just because industry wide, it seems to be like the great white whale of publication. But really I just, I don't know. And I often, to be perfectly candid, is I have through experience and like having friends that shoot celebrity weddings and they're in people and they're in all of these things and they hustle hard, they work, they, they really have earned it. They've done such good work there. They often complain to me about those experiences. You know, they're just like, this was not what I thought it would be. I didn't get treated well. You know, and you get kind of like. And I just, I never understand that because I'm like, we're the, we're the people with the product at the end of it. Like, we are the ones photo. What. Where does the past exist in your memories and in photographs. And we're the only ones that produce something that is not, is visceral. You can see it. And so I never understand that why they want to treat the photographer like shit just across the board. I just, you shouldn't treat anybody like shit. We shouldn't be treating people like garbage no matter what they do. But in the, in these industries, in our world, it's like the photographer is the person you're going to choose. Why? Yeah, I don't get it. I just don't get it. That's a weird.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I'm with you on that one. And all photographers said amen.

[Larkin Kendall]

Amen. Amen. Amen.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, and I like what you said at the beginning of the episode on just that priority for getting published, clout is at the absolute very, very, very bottom. Like it's, it's a cool Perk, sure, whatever. But like, at the end of the day, it helps get your name out there, it helps SEO, it helps you get more clients, and it helps grow your business, which is what we all want.

[Larkin Kendall]

Practical application.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, absolutely. To kind of. As we're slowly wrapping up. Do you have some do's and don'ts for that you recommend to our listener to get published and like what to do and what to not do.

[Larkin Kendall]

I mean, the only what to not do is what we've harped on before. And that's just making sure that you're not submitting work that doesn't fit the aesthetic of the blog that you're trying because it's just wasted time, it's just wasted heartbeats that you're never going to get back. So be real with yourself on that. But do put it into your workflow. I think that's super critical. And make it a part of, like, cut your thinking brain off from it and making an automatic part of your workflow. And also let other people do as much of the work as possible. Go through these websites, make a list of the ones that are in your region and the ones that you want to be published in that are like some of the big boys see what they're asking for and build all of that into your questionnaire. And then if you get a no, you work bottom down or top down. So you would start, like, start with the biggest one that you think will take it. June bugs. Submit to June Bug. If they say no, okay, we're going down here to the next level, Oregon bride or whatever your state level of blogging submission places. And then you're going to go down to the next one. That's going to be your little regional blogs, your little apple brides. And you're just going to keep hitting them. Never know you get that's an opportunity for a yes next time, you know, so just keep, keep doing it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Do you submit one at a time or do you submit to multiple at the same time?

[Larkin Kendall]

Don't do that. That's also a no. I forgot the one wedding. That's a big no. Like if you were one wedding, right? You're talking submitting one wedding to multiple. Don't do that. No yourself in some trouble. You can get blacklisted from that kind of stuff. Like that's one of the things that blogs do not like. Because if green wedding shoes give gives you a yes and Junebug gives you a yes and they both have exclusivity and you have to write one and say, oh, Oops. I submitted it to two place. They will not. They will literally blacklist you. I've heard. I've heard about this. In the underground. Don't do it in the Underground. Yeah, in the Underground.

[Lindsay Roman]

Mother. Mother has scolded us. We don't do that.

[Larkin Kendall]

Don't do it. Don't do it.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I love. Okay, so when it comes to getting ready to submit, I feel like what you're saying is, yes, there are some little, like, tips. Don't submit the same wedding to multiple publications at the same time. Go one at a time and see.

[Larkin Kendall]

No.

[Evvi MacLeod]

Or the yes. Like those. I. There's like, some little. Little tips and tricks there, but I feel like you're just kind of giving the good little shove in the pants that's like, hey, get out of your own way.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evvi MacLeod]

You're assuming there's going to be a no, that it's not good enough. It doesn't match. It's not. You're not gonna. It's gonna take so much time. Whatever. You're, like, putting a roadblock in your own way by just not pursuing any sort of. Any form of publication of any level. And what I'm hearing, Larkin, is just like, just stop it. Cut it out and just start. However, flow it into your workflow. Send off the preview gallery that you're sending to your clients to your regional publication first and go from there. Like, just get out of your own way and do it. Is that like, 100?

[Larkin Kendall]

Like, don't be the snake eating its own tail. It's so stupid because you. You. If you're not. If you don't stop that shit now, six months from now, you're still going to be in the exact same place, you know? And so just take the risk and don't make it a big deal. Make it sexy. Make it feel a little sexy to take that risk and just be like, hey, this feels really weird to me and it feels scary to me, but let's make that hot, you know? Make it hot.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I love it.

[Larkin Kendall]

Make it feel good. Bring your dominant energy to it.

[Evvi MacLeod]

Yes.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes.

[Larkin Kendall]

Bring it in there and just get started. And no's are not about you. We want to make everything about us. And that's the human condition, right? But the no's are not about you. They didn't look at the work and be like, this photographer's absolute shit. No. They probably have a full schedule or it's just not quite at the aesthetic that they want. And those are factors that are out of your control. So you just say, okay, cool. Now I know so I can move on to the next one. Oh and let me close with a little story here.

[Lindsay Roman]

We love storytelling time.

[Larkin Kendall]

This is an actual cool story that I really loved. So a couple of months ago, as always, as I was saying, I submit I find a home for everything. So I had already gone through the submission process with this one wedding and it didn't get taken by this big one of the big boy blocks. And so I was like cool. So I sent it on to like a small one. They took it, it was fine. So cut to about five months later I post. I'm so negligent about social media. So I post some from that wedding to my social media. That blog that gave me a no sent me a DM asking to see the gallery because they wanted to print it in their winter issue. And I was like, ha ha ha ha ha ha. And so I didn't say anything. I wasn't like hey, you already rejected it. I just was like sure, here it is. So I passed, I sent it over to them and they were like yeah, we would love to print this. And so that just goes to show you. Like, like show your shit, show your shit. Because you just never know. Like make it fun for you. Like instead of thinking so close minded about and like fearful about sharing your stuff, make it like an exciting thing. You never know what could result. It's almost like gambling. Like get a little high on it. You never know who's gonna see it and what's gonna come back to you as a result of it. And how illustrative is that point? Like they told me no, but then the person that does their social media because there's all different. It's not like one person looking at everything. For most forms may smaller ones, but for the bigger ones they have teams. So somebody was like nope, this isn't, this isn't it. And then somebody else saw it and was like oh yeah, this is amazing. So just keep that in your mind. Fun, fun fact though. The couple didn't want their work published, they didn't want it printed. So I was like no. And that's one of those things you're going to come up against you. And even though I have it in my, I was just, I just decided like it is what it is, you know, client comes first. It was a great story and I just thought it was so cool to share and just like see, see, just go for it. Just throw the shit at the wall and see what sticks. That's really all we're doing and creating A freedom. A life of freedom for yourself. Just play. Just play.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I love it.

[Lindsay Roman]

You just gave, like, the story version of that, of, like, a beautiful. Wow. Whole, like, moment, like, happy end. And then it was like the equivalent of, like, the. The scene at the end of the credits of a Marvel movie movie where it's like, psych Psychic never got published with clients.

[Larkin Kendall]

But, yes, the client was like, oh, no, thank you. The client pulled the rug out. But I was like, I wasn't even upset about it. And that's something that used to knock. Would have knocked me off, you know, and just ruined my whole day, but I just no longer allow that kind of stuff. People are. I respect their privacy, and people are moving into this age of just wanting privacy, and who could really blame them for that? But I was like, that's. That's a bummer, though. I mean, but to be printed, that's an ego thing, you know, I had to really look at that. Like, is that a bit. Am I losing anything out on the business side of things? Because, of course, my first reaction was like, oh, man. But I had. After. I did, like, my. My thought process through it, I was like, I'm not losing anything other than another dusty magazine in my cupboard. So it was fine. It was really fine.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I love it. And it circles beautifully. Back to the client comes first.

[Larkin Kendall]

The client comes first. They do. We love them.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I love that.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, my gosh, Larkin, I could talk to you forever. You are hysterical and so fun and so knowledgeable and just have given our listeners so much. But if anybody's listening to this and they're like, oh, I want to learn from her. I want to follow her. I want to check her out. All the things. Where can they find you and learn from you?

[Larkin Kendall]

So you can find my. My main social media at Lark and Kendall. It's. I'm sure you guys can link it. It's spelled horribly. Like, it's L, A, U, R, K, E, N. It's spelled Lorken. And we were talking about. My sister's name is Lauren, so we're Larkin and Lauren. So quite frankly, it's a. It's a hate crime that my mom. Yeah, yeah. But it was the 80s, you know, it was late 80s, and she's like, this is cute for us.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I love it.

[Larkin Kendall]

Or you can, if you want to come into my school. I would love to give you a loving, tender kick in your ass. Us. It's the Mother photographer on social media at the Mother Photographer. Mother and photographer crammed together. Or motherphotographer.com. and we call it the mofo school. The students actually did that. They started calling it mofo and I was like that how did I somehow end up so beautifully on brand? So it is mofo school and yeah. And I really just, I just changed the whole format of it. And we're doing a live class starting on Monday for the first time. And it is sort of a calendar new year kick in the ass like an actual one. All my classes are like that. I really love to just provide accountability, digestive system support, you know. And so much education these days is just not. It's just like pop in, pop in and take a random class. And I used to do that. So I've evolved the system in a way that I think is going to serve so many more. I really. My vision for the world, my vision for photographers is to stand so firmly in their individuality because. Because individuality is the quickest path to really big success. People who just stand so firmly in who they are and don't budge in it, I get off on that. I think it's so beautiful. And so many people want to be like other people. And I'm like, but why would you do that? Because you are incredible in the way that you do things and view things and see the world and have experience. Life is so unique. So you should work and present yourself from a space of that and stop self censoring and just live loud. And so that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to create this space where people learn how to be themselves and create beautiful art. Of course, weird art for no reason other than that they like it. Amazing.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I love this. I feel like everyone's like if this was actually a speaking at a physical, like I'm envisioning a standing ovation. It's just beautiful. Oh please. Like that was so.

[Larkin Kendall]

Thank you.

[Lindsay Roman]

There we go. There we go.

[Larkin Kendall]

I always wanted to do my.

[Lindsay Roman]

You have the Julie Andrew wave.

[Larkin Kendall]

There we go. Thank you so much.

[Lindsay Roman]

Thank you for being here today.

[Larkin Kendall]

Thank you.

[Evvi MacLeod]

Oh my gosh, Lin, you are a joy and just such a well of wisdom and it was incredible having you on and I know so many of our listeners just probably got the. The loving kick in the pants that they subscribed.

[Larkin Kendall]

I'm so sorry. I should have signed something. I'm so sorry.

[Evvi MacLeod]

I really love this.

[Larkin Kendall]

Amazing. Thank you so much you guys.

[Lindsay Roman]

Absolutely.

[Evvi MacLeod]

You're the best.

[Larkin Kendall]

You're the best.