428: How to Blend an Editorial Approach with Documentary Storytelling Featuring Grace Torres

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Heart & Hustle Podcast Episode 428: How to Blend an Editorial Approach with Documentary Storytelling Featuring Grace Torres Release Date: April 8, 2025

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Hosts: Evie McLeod & Lindsey Roman
Guest: Grace Torres, Destination Wedding Photographer & Business Educator

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1. Introduction to Grace Torres

[00:00 – 05:29]

Evie McLeod and Lindsey Roman warmly welcome Grace Torres to the Heart & Hustle Podcast. They introduce Grace as a renowned destination wedding photographer based on the East Coast, traveling globally to capture thoughtfully designed and emotionally rich celebrations. Grace is celebrated for her signature style that seamlessly blends an editorial approach with documentary storytelling, resulting in timeless and heartfelt imagery. Her portfolio spans luxurious coastal venues in the East Coast to elegant international destinations like Lake Como, Italy, and Mallorca, Spain.

2. Defining Editorial vs. Documentary Styles

[06:07 – 09:24]

Grace delves into the nuances of editorial and documentary photography, highlighting the importance of intentional composition in editorial work while maintaining a natural appearance. She explains that her morning sessions lean more towards the editorial style—“intentionally composed” yet designed to appear candid. In contrast, the latter half of the day adopts a more documentary approach, focusing on capturing spontaneous moments as they unfold.

Notable Quotes:

• Grace Torres [06:30]: “Editorial photography is intentionally composed. It’s carefully composed, but it is meant to read as a more natural image.”
• Grace Torres [08:16]: “It's a mix of everything. I don't know, there's no rules.”

3. Transitioning to a High-End Market

[09:24 – 18:30]

Grace shares her journey from starting in portrait photography to embracing wedding photography as a lucrative venture. She emphasizes the necessity of transitioning from mid-level to high-end markets by rebuilding business foundations, adjusting mindsets, and refining messaging to attract ideal clients. Grace discusses her shift from preset packages to custom quotes to accommodate diverse client locations and needs, ensuring ethical pricing and profitability.

Notable Insights:

• Grace Torres [12:46]: “Image curation on my website really makes an effort to show my portraiture, but also my candid shots. People purchase what they can understand.”
• Grace Torres [18:03]: “Now I custom quote everything in general. I price ethically and stuff like that, but I custom quote everything anyway.”

4. Communicating Style and Branding

[18:35 – 24:35]

The conversation moves to effective communication strategies for high-end branding. Grace highlights the importance of a streamlined website that prioritizes quality over quantity, catering to the trust levels of affluent clients who often work with wedding planners. She advises reducing website verbosity to enhance clarity and appeal, making it easier for clients to visualize their wedding through curated imagery.

Notable Quotes:

• Grace Torres [24:14]: “The mid-level market is doing all their own research, seeking tons of information. The high-end market trusts recommendations from planners and vendors they already know.”
• Grace Torres [24:35]: “A lot of it is relationship building. It’s all about who you know.”

5. Client Interaction on the Wedding Day

[25:06 – 38:18]

Grace discusses balancing her editorial and documentary styles during weddings. She emphasizes the importance of pre-production meetings to understand clients' preferences and allocate time accordingly. Grace shares strategies for maintaining open communication with clients during the event, allowing them to enjoy their day while ensuring they receive the desired photographic coverage.

Key Strategies:

• Taking detailed notes on clients’ priorities and preferences.
• Offering clients the option to pause photo sessions if they wish to relax, ensuring their comfort while safeguarding her professional responsibilities.

Notable Quotes:

• Grace Torres [36:03]: “I protect myself and the client by making notes of what was requested and respecting their wishes during the day.”
• Grace Torres [37:31]: “Understanding when to push a bit more or let the clients enjoy their day is crucial.”

6. Technical Aspects and Gear Choices

[38:18 – 43:36]

Grace shares her preferred photography gear, emphasizing the flexibility required for her blended style. She primarily uses two Canon R5 cameras with a versatile 28-70mm lens for most of the day, supplemented by prime lenses like the 50mm or 85mm for more fine-art portraiture. This combination allows her to swiftly adapt to different shooting scenarios, ensuring she captures both wide compositions and detailed close-ups effortlessly.

Notable Insights:

• Grace Torres [43:36]: “The convenience of a quality zoom lens like the 28-70mm is indispensable on a wedding day.”

7. Getting Published and Building a Prestigious Portfolio

[43:36 – 60:35]

Grace offers valuable advice on securing features in high-end publications. She explains that while some publications may reach out based on the merit of her work, others might involve paid advertising. Grace emphasizes the importance of ethical transparency when engaging in paid features and encourages photographers to build strong portfolios by submitting to selective directories and publications like The Wedding Wire, The Lane, Ruffled, Carats and Cake, June Bug, and Green Wedding Shoes.

Notable Quotes:

• Grace Torres [55:28]: “Strip your business down to the bones and rebuild your foundation, mindset, and messaging to attract high-end clients.”
• Grace Torres [58:08]: “I’m proud to have been part of advertorial campaigns with publications like British Vogue. It elevates my portfolio and brand perception.”

Tips for Getting Published:

• Build a Strong Foundation: Focus on relationships, clear branding, and a curated portfolio.
• Submit to Selective Publications: Target directories and publications that align with your style and brand.
• Leverage Client Relationships: Engage satisfied clients post-wedding to gather testimonials and insights for submission.
• Consider Paid Advertising: Ethically invest in paid features to boost visibility and credibility.

8. Final Thoughts and Future Plans

[60:37 – 62:32]

Grace expresses her excitement for achieving a better work-life balance in 2025. By limiting her travel, she aims to spend more time at home, nurturing personal relationships and focusing on her health. Grace is enthusiastic about collaborating with unique venues and inspiring clients, looking forward to a year of balanced growth and continued excellence in her craft.

Notable Quotes:

• Grace Torres [60:35]: “I’m excited for a year of balance and just enjoying life a little bit more.”
• Grace Torres [60:51]: “I have some venues that I’m super excited to shoot at. It feels very aligned.”

9. Connecting with Grace Torres

Grace encourages listeners to follow her on social media to stay updated with her latest work and insights.

Find Grace On:

• Instagram: @GraceTorresPhoto
• Business Instagram: @GraceTorresEducation
• TikTok: Grace Torres

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Conclusion:
This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of Grace Torres' unique approach to wedding photography, blending editorial finesse with documentary authenticity. Grace provides actionable insights on transitioning to a high-end market, effective client communication, strategic marketing, and maintaining a balanced business lifestyle. Her transparent and ethical practices serve as a valuable guide for photographers aspiring to elevate their craft and business.

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Notable Resource Mentioned:

• Grace Torres [03:01]: “To download our free resource on setting and achieving goals as an entrepreneur, visit theheartuniversity.com/goals.”

Transcript

[Abby McLeod]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are your hosts, Abby McLeod and Lindsay Roman. Welcome back to the show, friend. We are so excited for this conversation. We got to have the beautiful and talented Grace Torres on today's episode. So if you are a wedding photographer, wannabe wedding photographer wanting to get into the higher end wedding photography, wanting to style your weddings or shoot your weddings with a mixture of an editorial approach and maybe a bit more of the candid or documentary sty approach, how do you blend those two? I just. If you're a photographer, just listen. Let's just. Let's give that blank bl. That blanket statement. So if you are not familiar with her. Grace Torres is a destination wedding photographer and business educator based on the east coast, traveling worldwide to capture thoughtfully designed, emotionally rich celebrations. Known for her signature style that blends an editorial approach and documentary storytelling, Grace delivers timeless, heartfelt imagery for couples who value intentional designs and guest experiences. Grace work has taken her from luxury, luxurious coastal venues along the east coast to elegant international destinations including Lake Como, Italy and Mallorca, Spain.

[Lindsay Roman]

She is basically a boss and we got to talk to her today all about her process of mostly her editorial style mixed with her journalistic, candid approach, how she got into it. She talks about specific things that she talks to with her brides and her clients to get that. How she operates on a wedding day to really in the moment be able to get those like instantaneous stylized photos slash candid photos. Like how do you get the combo of both when you have 0.2 seconds to get a moment in the. In the minute. Um, and she just goes in depth so much about that editorial style. But then also we kind of navigated the conversation a little bit to how to market to more of a high end clientele. I think in this day and age that editorial fine art type of client, it typically aligns itself a little bit more with that higher end bride. Um, and so she and us really went in, in depth on just the process of what you can do as a photographer if you're changing what's I called markets from like mid level to more of a higher end market as well as really trying to target those brides that want that specific fine art and editorial feel. Basically, Grace is a rock star and she broke down so many tangible takeaways for you today. So like Evie said, if you are a photographer wanting to pivot into the high end space or wanting to get more of that editorial, timeless fine art, look into your work. Listen to this episode. Grace is going to blow your mind today.

[Abby McLeod]

Where do you see yourself in five years? Did a little panic just set in? Like, have you ever been asked that dreaded question and thought, oh my gosh, I actually don't know. Us too. We've been in your shoes.

[Lindsay Roman]

When people ask those big questions, it's normal not to know how to answer them right. But it's a vital question to actually ask yourself, especially as an entrepreneur. It can make or break your business and ensure that you're actually heading in the right direction in life and business.

[Abby McLeod]

Which is why we've created a resource just for you. It is all about setting goals and how to actually reach them. As an entrepreneur, if you want to discuss dreaming big, how to set goals and then how to actually achieve them, this freebie is just what the doctor prescribed. To Download, go to theheartuniversity.com goals.

[Grace Torres]

Hey. Hey.

[Lindsay Roman]

I'm Lindsey Roman.

[Abby McLeod]

And I'm Evie McLeod and we are family and legacy focused serial entrepreneurs and the founders of the Hart University, a business education company with a mission to help you thrive in your business and life.

[Lindsay Roman]

Welcome to our Entrepreneur Cocktail hour where business and marketing strategies meet faith, real talk and raw in life changing conversations.

[Abby McLeod]

At the end of the day, we are all in this together, figuring out how to navigate the ups and downs, the messy and the beautiful and everything in between. This is a community where you can come as you are, get inspired and walk away equipped to build a legacy filled life.

[Lindsay Roman]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. Grace, welcome to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are so excited to talk with you today.

[Grace Torres]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh my goodness. We are going to have the best girl chat ever today and we're just so excited to just introduce you to our listeners and really dive into your art. It is phenomenal.

[Grace Torres]

So gorgeous.

[Lindsay Roman]

But I guess to start off, can you just introduce yourself who you are, where you're based, what you do, what you specialize in? Just like the whole all the shenanigans.

[Grace Torres]

Yeah. Well, thank you so much. I am a wedding photographer. I'm based in Florida, but I serve all of the east coast and then all of the US international. I travel quite a bit. I would say my style is a good mix of editorial and a little bit of fine art mixed with a more journalistic, candid approach to like the back half of the day, ceremony, reception, all of that good stuff. I also do a little bit of education so I do some business coaching one on one And I love that. It definitely fulfills a different part of me, I guess that sometimes, like, I feel like business can't. It gives me a little bit of variety for my everyday life. But I live in Central Florida with my husband. We actually run the company together full time. We have two separate companies. We have a photography company and a videography company. But we do work together pretty often as well. So it's us, it's our pup, Scout. We're here when we're here, but. But most of the time we're not here and we're traveling.

[Abby McLeod]

I love it. I feel like that's the life of many a photographer, is like, I'm never home. Yeah, I love. Okay, so we want to dive in. We're going to really focus in on, like you kind of mentioned, you lean a bit more in the editorial fine art. While you also blend beautifully the, you know, the journalistic or very handed. Yeah, like, just natural, like, as the day unfolds. I. I'm just curious. Can you kind of, like, help define before we really get into some of the nitty gritty of like, hey, how do you balance those two? Or, you know, how do you pose more editorial? How do you navigate with that with your clients? Like, I feel like we could get.

[Lindsay Roman]

Into a mini, like, some term defining.

[Abby McLeod]

Yeah, like, because I feel like this, there's. There's like, wiggle room in some of the definitions. Like, some people say documentary and they mean more, you know, whatever. Some people say storytelling, they mean more journalistic. You know, there's so many terms. So can you define, like, what would you consider the key characteristics of like, editorial or find? Do you consider yourself editorial? Is that, like a good definition? Okay.

[Grace Torres]

I feel like I always. Well, because like you said, there are so many different definitions and perceptions of those, like, hot words floating around. One thing I always take the time to do is with. When I'm chatting with a client, I'll take the time to explain, like, this is what I mean or what it means to me when I say a mix of editorial and candid. Because it is going to vary photographer to photographer. I think a really, like, standard definition of editorial photography is it is intentionally composed. So it's carefully composed, but it is meant to read as a more natural image. So, you know, it's the bride sitting in a chair next to this beautiful window light, sitting perfectly fixing her shoes. Obviously that's not a natural moment. It's like, very much directed, but it's supposed to read as natural. So most of my approach on the Morning. Half of the day is a little bit more directed. It's not quite as editorial as some of the, like, really heavy editorial photographers like Anna Russo's or Kyla Jeanette where they have lighting assistants. And it's very, very intentionally posed. I lean a little bit, a little bit more candid in that that sense where I'm like, hey, let's. I'll move you over to get better window light. I'll tell you to like, relax your shoulders, but then I'll like step back and let you enjoy it and then back. Half the day is more documentary style, so I'm like a little bit more of an observer. I try to blend them, but I also try to adapt it to my client. You know, some people like more direction than others. Some people are happy to just like, be in front of the camera. They're comfortable. They just want to like, vibe and enjoy the day. And that is totally fine with me. But yeah, I would say, I think a lot of people also associate editorial with like that very anti bride, cool girl wedding photography aesthetic. And I think I'm a little bit more traditional than that. I will, you know, have elements of that throughout my work. But I would say my work as a whole, especially my portraiture, is a lot more fine art, a little bit more like traditional.

[Lindsay Roman]

So totally.

[Grace Torres]

It's a mix of everything. I don't know, there's no rules, right. So I just kind of like do whatever I'm feeling on the day off.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's amazing. Well, I also feel like that's the beauty about photography, is that we can go in any direction that we really want and that feels good and that feels like us. And I like that you mentioned at the end because I feel like editorial can obviously lean more fine art. And maybe we should even like, maybe define fine art because. Because there's the other side of editorial, which is like fashion Vogue magazine, where.

[Abby McLeod]

It'S like, cool girl.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's what you're talking about. But like, very edgy editorial versus, like timeless fine art.

[Grace Torres]

And they're fine art to me is very composed and it's okay to look more curated and composed. So like intentional portraiture where they're looking at the camera and it doesn't read as quite as natural. It reads as like a posed portrait. That's kind of how I view fine art. So my family portraits and stuff, like, are typically like more fine art, like more traditional style. But my couple's portraits, I'm like, oh, it's, you know, I can be a Little bit more creative. I like for things to appear a little bit more natural there. It's all the keywords and, like, hot words. I just did a blog post about it, though, so it's, like, fresh on my mind, which is nice.

[Abby McLeod]

I love it.

[Lindsay Roman]

We love the timing of that. Okay, when did you find this style? Did you start in this world from the very beginning, like, you entered the photography realm knowing, like, that's exactly the style I want to go for? Or was your stylistic photography a journey to get here?

[Grace Torres]

I think it was a journey. I didn't start out in weddings. I started out in just, like, portraits. And I really didn't ever consider weddings until I started doing some couple sessions and engagement sessions. And I was like, okay, like, you can make money off of weddings. I just. I really didn't know, like, you could make money off of photography in general. So it was very much a hobby, portraiture only. I shot like, a sweet 16 when I was, like, in high school. You know, that's really. That was the extent. But going into wedding photography, I feel like I've always been a little bit more hands on with my client because I do think that for the types of clients that I attract, it gives them a level of confidence to receive that direction. So I think I've always had an approach that's similar. I just have kind of tried to hone it a little bit more over the past few years to be more intentional about the way that I'm shooting. And obviously, like, just in general, you, like, improve and progress as an artist. But yeah, it was something I feel like, naturally matched my personality, matched the way that I like to interact with my clients. And it's just been like a journey of improving it from there, I guess.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, that's amazing.

[Abby McLeod]

I love it. I'm curious in. In this process because I feel like so many photographers struggle with it sometimes feels at least I've heard students say this and, like, I've even felt this myself sometimes. Of, like, you almost have to pick a camp of like, are you editorial or fine art, or are you documentary, Candid, you know, storytelling approach, whatever. I am so intrigued by how you communicate to your clients how you feel like you, like, market or how this comes up in your work. Is this just a natural flow because you sounds like beautifully blend the two, and you communicate that really well to your clients. So for the photographer who's listening to this, who's like, I feel like I have to pick one or the other. I don't know how I can blend the Two and communicate that clearly to my clients of like, here's what you can expect. How do you do that for your clients in a very like, clear way that they're excited and they understand what they're going to get.

[Grace Torres]

I think a lot of it is the image curation on my website. Like, I really make an effort to show my portraiture, but also my candidates. And I do think that that helps. Kind of instead of just reading the words on a website, which if you think about it like people, especially nowadays, they are viewing multiple photographer websites at once. So you want to stand out. But they are essentially reading similar words on everybody's website, similar ideas. So communicating, yes. Like you want to communicate clearly. People purchase the things that they can understand. But also being able to put a photo to is like really helpful, I feel, especially when I talk to other photographers that are kind of in the same camp where they're like, I've always thought of myself as documentary, but like, now that I look at my portraits, they're actually a little bit more posed. I'm like, great, talk about that on your site. Talk about the two different styles. But also like, I only see posed portraits all over your website. Like put in some reception, put in some candidates, put in some like speeches, you know, include those things so that people can really picture themselves in those photos and also see the scope of your skill set and like your range as a photographer.

[Abby McLeod]

Yeah, I love that. Is worth a thousand words.

[Grace Torres]

Yeah, right.

[Lindsay Roman]

It's really true. I have a marketing follow up question to that, but I still almost want to like circle back to like things that you do on a wedding day for this style.

[Grace Torres]

So what?

[Lindsay Roman]

We'll get there. But speaking of marketing, I noticed that you market yourself as an east coast wedding photographer. Is there a intentional choice behind that or is it like versus saying like Florida based? Like what's the. I would love to like unpack your brain and like, I'm just like stock strategy.

[Grace Torres]

So I grew up in New Jersey. I lived 18 years in New Jersey and then I moved to Florida for college. So I technically started my business in Jersey, but I started my wedding business in Florida. So early, early into my wedding career, I knew that I wanted the flexibility of potentially moving back home because New Jersey is home to me. It's where my family is. I love Florida, but I just wanted to give myself the opportunity to relocate seamlessly. So that's kind of where it first began. I did my first ever, like styled shoot in New York City and that's what really kicked off My portfolio in the New Jersey, New Jersey, New York City, Philly area. And now my most frequented cities are like, New Jersey, New York City, Philly, Boston, Newport, D.C. those are, like, the ones that I hit at least, like, once or twice a year. So the goal was to be flexible with, like, where I could relocate. And now I've definitely come to enjoy having not having a season in terms of wedding bookings, because I don't love to pack my schedule full and then be offered, like, three or four months. It's just. It's not really my vibe. So now being able to split my market from southern and northern East Coast, I shoot, like, all year round, and I can spread my workout. I get to experience different venues and landscapes. I get to go home to see family. And then if I ever want to relocate, it's a lot easier for me to relocate knowing that I have really, like, established clientele. Both, like, up north and then down in the South.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's so good. Well, especially because Florida is hot as hell in the time that everywhere else is, like, wedding season. Like, August, October, like, I want to just die.

[Abby McLeod]

I mean, you're pretty much don't want to shoot a wedding if you can avoid it in Florida. I can't even imagine May through November.

[Lindsay Roman]

Planning a wedding in Florida during those months in August.

[Grace Torres]

Yeah.

[Abby McLeod]

I mean, people do, but it's hot.

[Grace Torres]

I don't really shoot anything here in the summer unless it's like, fully indoors. Last year, I did one wedding that was like, we did the portraits outside, but it was like, mostly indoors in June. And I was like, yeah, like, I don't know. That might be the last time I do for the summer here because it is, like, it's just brutal. I think a lot of people are just, like, coming from out of state, so they're like, oh, it's going to be so great. And you're like, okay, me educate you real fast. Yeah. But, yeah, the Northeast is, like, a lot more pleasant. I even took Christian up for the, like, his first summer in New Jersey. We did a whole month there because I had a ton of weddings. He was like, oh, my gosh. Like, the weather here is so nice. He's Florida born and raised. I was like, yeah, this is what it's like.

[Lindsay Roman]

I'm here.

[Grace Torres]

Like, you're not sweating all the time. You have, like, a really pleasant, like, outdoor experience. You can, like, spend time outside and not be, like, dying. It's great.

[Abby McLeod]

I love. It's so nice, too, when you live in Florida, east coast, like, the direct Short, like, easy flights.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Abby McLeod]

Are just so nice to be able to be like, hey, yeah, that's, you know, New York City, no problem. Hour and a half flight, like, direct, easy.

[Grace Torres]

It's not bad.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, it's awesome. Kind of on that topic of you kind of being based along the entire East Coast, I know a lot of we get this question a lot, so I'm sure you do too, as a fellow educator. And I would love to know kind of how you do it, just how do you charge pricing for, like, destination being, especially if you have, like, family in New Jersey or just like, does that make sense based on where the inquiry comes in?

[Grace Torres]

So I used to actually do preset packages because I was only really shooting in Florida and then like New Jersey, New York City. So it was a lot easier for me to just preset the pricing because I knew I might have to go to rental car. But I definitely don't need a hotel. And then obviously I need my flights. Obviously, if there was like a wedding where it was really, really North Jersey and I was gonna have to stay overnight, or it's all the way up in New York and I, like, would want a hotel, I would quote that in. But for the most part, I was able to just do like two separate packages. And, you know, it was very easy. Now because I do all of those different cities, price points are obviously going to range. Like, there are just some places that are more expensive than others. So, you know, so now I just custom quote everything. Airfare, overnight accommodations, rental car, and then like gas and food stipend. So. And then obviously, like, I account for second shooter travel because I'm almost always flying my second shooter with me. So I account for, like their airfare. Again, because we're married, it's like a big plus that we can share everything, you know, so it makes it way more cost effective to the client. But, yeah, now I just custom quote everything.

[Abby McLeod]

I love it. I feel like, yeah, if you're in a situation where you're like, hey, I shoot between these two cities, and I can pretty much guarantee, you know, the cost is going to be around here, whatever. So I'm just going to build it into a package. I feel like I'm like, yeah, okay, that makes sense. But if you're just getting in the place where you're like, hey, I'm going anywhere in the US and like, all of my, you know, weddings are coming in from all over the world, all over, you know, Europe or, or Mexico or the Caribbean or wherever. It just gets to a Place where you're like, there is no flat rate package that I can possibly offer that even makes sense. So the custom quote almost becomes like required in some ways of like, here's how I have to do it just to make sure the clients aren't paying too much or too little. And then you're getting way too much money or way too little and you're getting screwed.

[Grace Torres]

Yeah, so that's kind of what I was getting like running into back when I was doing this a couple years ago. I was like, oh, I'm actually like, I'm losing money or like, ye, you know, the client's overpaying here. And I just, yeah, I was not like efficient anymore. But now I custom quote everything in general. Like all my collections are like custom quoted. I obviously have like my back end, you know, pricing calculator. Like I price ethically and stuff like that. But I custom quote everything anyway so it makes it easier to custom quote the travel because everything's coming like custom to the client anyway.

[Lindsay Roman]

Totally.

[Abby McLeod]

Okay. This is not on the topic of editorial and posing, which I want to get back to.

[Lindsay Roman]

We will roll back.

[Abby McLeod]

We are just, we are going down our rabbit trails and we are hopping along, having a grand time. I really want, if you're willing. Can you talk a touch about that? Because I feel like when you get into the fine art, I don't want to say luxury weddings, but like higher end, higher end weddings, not like the budget weddings. Let's just say that when you get out of the budget weddings and you're into a price point where you know you're at the space where you're willing to do more custom collections and custom experiences and custom quotes for each client's. How do you approach that as far as communicating to your clients? Maybe on you can kind of share like if you want an overview of your process in general with custom collections. But what I'm like curious when you said that, I was like, okay, do you share price ranges on your website or is it just inquire for quote or custom quote? Like do you give them any for.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like the actual wedding package or travel wedding package?

[Abby McLeod]

Like her collections? Like is, do they have an idea, do your clients have an idea of where, where you range on the price before they inquire or are they coming in with just no idea where you stand?

[Grace Torres]

So I do have a general price range out there because I do receive really, really high volumes of inquiries. And I don't say that's like brag or anything. It's just very overwhelming. For me I'm consistent and it's too much. It's too much. So even I used to. So I've tried out different things. I've tried the drop down menu where they can select their price range. I've tried having it in the shadow, you know, where it says like collections range from X to X and having them type it in. I'm always like trying different things. Like I'm always experimenting with different things. But right now I have it on my website where you can like see it before you enter your price range. And that definitely has helped. But like it's just to make an effort to semi qualify my leads prior to receiving them. Just because again, like last year for example, I think I got like 600 leads. Like that is ridiculous. Like I was spending so much time responding to people who were not even remotely like a good fit for me, which is, it's fine, I'm happy to point you in the right direction but when you're doing that multiple times a day, it really eats into your workday. So if I can qualify my leads a little bit more before they come in, that's kind of why I have that price point there. Obviously. It's also to avoid sticker shock. And I know it's very common in the high end space to not have any information, but I'm kind of transitioning from like the mid level to the higher end market. So in the transition I'm kind of trying to adapt as I go and just make it easier for me to manage everything. But I do think that when it comes to presenting the concept of custom collections, it's not too difficult anymore because a lot of my clients are working with planners and it's, it's more expected. It's not like a foreign concept to them, you know what I mean? They're receiving custom proposals from multiple different photographers. So it's not like some weird thing. But I do try to prime them. Kind of the same thing with, you know, anything like albums or even with like social media engagement. You like prime your audience. I try to prime them throughout the website and then in the email that I send I talk about, hey, let's get on a phone call. Would love to just hear more about the event and understand the scope and then I'll put together something custom. I'm kind of not sure if I'm going to fall within budget if they like don't have a full service planner or something. Again like I want to be transparent with them and I'll include, hey, I think your Quote's going to fall from here to here. But if they're, they're already working with a planner and I'm sending back in for information for them, like they already know.

[Abby McLeod]

Yeah.

[Grace Torres]

That I'll be in the price range. So it doesn't really, I don't really need to do that but sometimes I'll provide a range. Especially if it's travel. I do like to give a little bit of an idea so they're not like oh my gosh, that's way more than I was expecting. It just kind of depends on the client and like how comfortable I feel like they feel with moving forward in the process. But the. Yeah, that's what I've been doing for the past like couple of months.

[Abby McLeod]

I love that.

[Lindsay Roman]

That makes sense. I have a follow up maybe just on the topic of kind of like because I feel like the editorial style, fine art, like that kind of goes in my opinion hand in hand with like, like a direction of the luxury space. Again we don't, it doesn't have to be like you know, fricking 500,000 like, like insanely luxury. Like there's, there's obviously a range. But you mentioned you were like getting into the luxury space. They like less information. Can we just like why is that? Can we just like everyone knows it but why? You know what I'm saying? Like I feel like when you're first starting out you almost put all the information. Well maybe not sometimes. It just depends. But I feel like I've noticed the trend also of just like as you get a little bit more higher end.

[Abby McLeod]

Like pulling stuff off of your website instead of all this text, you simplify.

[Lindsay Roman]

And maybe it's like pricing specifically but it's like no, it's also text, it's photo text.

[Abby McLeod]

It's every, it's like you simplify everything.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. Why do you think that is?

[Grace Torres]

I so I was actually just working with my business coach on some of this stuff because my emails were super long. My website was very wordy and she was like remove, remove, remove. I was like okay, cool, like roasted. If you think about it like the mid level market is doing all their own research. They want information a lot of especially like an analytical buyer. They're really looking for information and value and comparing their options versus in the higher end market. There's a level of trust that is very different than the mid level market. They're also a lot of times working with a planner so they just don't really need that much information. They know that you're sitting at a certain price point and that you've been recommended by this. You know, these vendors that they already have trust in, they don't really need to read a lot more. They just need to see your photos and be like, do I like their photos? Okay, great. I already kind of have this inherent level of trust. It's also important to note that a lot of people that are having higher end weddings are used to outsourcing parts of their life that the mid level market is not. For example, myself, like, I don't have a bunch of people that I outsource my life to to like assistants and dry cleaners and financial advisors and stuff like that.

[Abby McLeod]

Yeah.

[Grace Torres]

That's like not a normal thing for like the middle class of America versus the upper class. It's very normal for them to be like, oh well this person's a professional at that. Okay. You just take care of that. So I do think there's a different level of trust and that that's why the brevity is so important and like much more effective than in the mid level market where people are really seeking tons of information.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's so. I love that you broke that down so clearly.

[Abby McLeod]

Yeah, it's such a, it's such a shift because I've, I've experienced it myself of noticing like, oh, I need to simplify that I need to like change.

[Lindsay Roman]

Especially how we got into the market was very much like personal brand heavy.

[Grace Torres]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Which, which I still don't think is a bad thing. But, but it, there is a rubbing.

[Abby McLeod]

Up against that of like the norm, like the norm in the luxury high end like wedding photographer space is that you're almost more. No, you're almost mysterious. Well, that was honest, I guess.

[Grace Torres]

Like mystery of like, I don't know anything about Yoshi.

[Abby McLeod]

Yeah, yeah. Which, which to be fair, I don't, I don't want to be like, I think that's stupid. I don't. Whatever. If it works for you, that's totally fine. I have no beef with that. But for me I'm like, that's just not me. I'm not a mysterious person and I'm not gonna show up on your wedding day being mysterious and aloof. Like, no, I'm gonna, I'm going to be very professional. I'm gonna be very like capable. But I'm going to like joke around with you on your wedding day because that's me and like that's how I would with a friend. So there's like an element that I personally am still like, like, hey, I know a common norm in the higher end spaces. Like this mysterious, aloof like, aura of like, you don't know who I am. I'm like, I'm this, you know, little taste and then I'm gone. And I'm just personally like, that's not me. So I'm never gonna do that.

[Grace Torres]

But yeah, it's so hard. It's a balance because it's. I was talking again with the business coach I've been working with about this and I was like just saying it's really hard to communicate like the warmth and like the comfort I feel like that I can bring to a wedding day when my work and like the way that I'm communicating with a CL client in the beginning is just very like polished. So I've worked really hard to include a little bit of that warmth, that excitement when I send an email back, even though it's not paragraphs long of like, oh, I'm so excited that you reached out. That's just not how I communicate with the client anymore. But I'm still able to include an element of it. But it is really hard because it comes down to at the end of the day, your body of work. I feel like in the mid level market a lot of us relied so heavily on personality, which it's important in that, in that range because clients do desire that level of connection versus moving up into the higher end space. I noticed it really is truly like about your work and what your portfolio looks like. It is so, so important. So it really comes down to portfolio at the end of the day most of the time, like if I'm going to lose a client, a lot of times that are, that are at that higher price point, it's not like because they didn't like me, it could just be pricing or it's portfolio. They just resonated with this person's portfolio better. They, they thought that they were more dynamic or whatever that, whatever it may be. It's so interesting because it's such a mindset shift. I've had to like completely relearn everything. But I'm really grateful that my clients are so lovely and even if I don't get to communicate with them a lot before the wedding day, we still have a great relationship on wedding day and like I feel like I still am able to have like a level of connection with them.

[Abby McLeod]

I love that.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay, that was a perfect pivot back to the wedding. Yeah. Well, okay, this is maybe is less about the work and more about the words. But we're slowly Getting back to the work a little bit. When you like advertise yourself as editorial wedding photographer, which I know you, you do that on, I believe, your Instagram and your website, do you find that that, I guess, paired with your work is attracting a specific clientele? Like I guess the, the brides and grooms that you get and then that you book. Like, are they wanting more of like, like, are they willing to do things that are more like for the photos? Like, does that make sense? Like, for very like, like prioritizing the portraits and like looking like, posed in a certain way?

[Abby McLeod]

They're not gonna be the clients who are like, oh, no, I whatever, don't care about that photo whatsoever. Like, Right.

[Grace Torres]

It's funny because some. Yes, but like, a lot of my clients are really just like, very chill. I mean, most of them have a level of priority on photography for sure. But I have, you know, I would say like one out of three clients is more like photo focused. And the majority of my clients are just more like, I definitely am willing to do portraits for like 30 minutes, but like, mostly I just want to have fun and enjoy my wedding day and, you know, whatever. There are some that'll be a little bit more flexible with like, or, you know, as you get to know your clients, you kind of can, you can read the room a little bit better and be like, okay, this person would like be down to do this cool idea versus some of my other clients. I'm like, they definitely are tapped out for the day. Like, I'm not going to ask. So you would think that it draws more clients that are like, wanting that. But I really feel like most of my clients are very like laid back and they want some traditional photos, but for the most part they just like want to enjoy their wedding day, which I love. Like, I'm personally a big fan of that. I would love to just follow you around and like, watch you have fun.

[Abby McLeod]

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[Lindsay Roman]

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[Abby McLeod]

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[Lindsay Roman]

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[Abby McLeod]

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[Lindsay Roman]

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[Abby McLeod]

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[Lindsay Roman]

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[Abby McLeod]

I also I feel like not every photographer is going to feel this way, but I feel like a majority of us photographers, we understand the value of the wedding day itself and the situations and scenarios where I really want to heavily pose and heavily do. I'm like I can do that on a styled shoe or a free session or a bridal session or whatever. I don't ever want to pull a client away from their wedding day. So same if I notice them being just so immersed in the day and the experience naturally in those moments the photos that come out of it are so beautiful and so rich anyways because present and then it like just being able to read them and being like hey during the getting ready like I can pose her here by this window sitting on this settee or whatever like a little bit more and during their portraits. But other than that like, hey, go enjoy your guests, Go enjoy each other, Go, you know, whatever. And you're. When you're immersed, the beauty of that comes out. And I think a lot of photographers would probably be like, that's the dream. Like, I don't want to work with the clients who all they care about is the photos. They barely look at each other unless it's like, for a photo. Like, I would so much rather have the clients who are like, like, I care about my marriage and my wedding day and the people around us and the relationships and the experience. And I want the photos to reflect that. I feel like that's in so many ways the dream for most photographers. So I love that you're like, hey, you can do that even in the higher end market. Like, here's what I work with. I think that's beautiful.

[Grace Torres]

And I would even argue that a lot of people that are again getting married with like these higher budgets, photography is like not their splurge or anything. Like, you are just a regular percentage of their budget, which is great. I love that. I love to just. It feels more low pressure, I guess, in a sense, not in general, but just like, oh, I'm not like the person that they like spent all of.

[Abby McLeod]

Their life savings on.

[Grace Torres]

You know what I mean? Like, I hate feeling like that or that person that they went over budget for. I don't like feeling like that. And a lot of these people, like, I did a wedding recently and then they were like, they were tapped out after about four minutes in location one, so we moved on. We did location two for about four minutes. I literally looked at the metadata because I was like, how long did I even have these people for? And we got their portraits. They were great. They were lovely. Posted on Instagram, got great feedback. You'd never know that it was like four minutes in one spot, four minutes in the other. But they just did not really care to do a ton of photos. Like, they just wanted to hang out with their friends. So it's. You have to make the time to get those photos and you have to be able to work in a fast paced environment, obviously, like, and that's at all levels. But also being able to read the room and be like, all right, these people, like, they're done. They just want to go hang out with their friends. I feel like I got enough in terms of point portraits. Go, enjoy. It's that balance of, your parents are going to be happy because I got these photos. Your planner is going to be happy because I got these photos. You guys are Going to be happy. Because, like, we didn't just spend 30 minutes doing that. Because that wasn't really considered fun in the moment for you. And that is totally fine. Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Do you ever find there's, like, pressure, especially if you can almost feel that the four minutes that you got, or it's not always four minutes, but, like, that short amount of time that you got? Like, you're like, oh. Because I've been in situations where it's like, again, I don't want to pull them for longer than they want to. But at the same time, it's like, you hired me to do this specific, like, style and look that I'm known for. And it's like, if you don't give me any time or, like, enough time, there's almost an element of like, oh, crap, is their gallery gonna be.

[Abby McLeod]

Are they gonna be just in this moment, they wanna walk away, but are they gonna be disappointed in their photos later? Like, it's that thought process of, like.

[Lindsay Roman]

Cause I've had so many couples that are like, no, we're good. And I'm like, okay.

[Abby McLeod]

You're like, I hope. I hope you don't hate this later.

[Grace Torres]

Yeah, I always tell them too. Like, before the wedding, I'll. I tell them, hey, like, if I feel like we have enough, I'll tell you, we can stop. But if I don't, I will come and tell you, hey, I really think that we should do a little bit more. Because for on one end, it is like, obviously I want the client to have what they expect out of the gallery, but it's also, like, I don't want to be negligent in my job, and it come back on me. So I'm really careful about protecting myself during the wedding day in the sense of, like, if something's on the shot list, I'm going to ask. If they say no, I'm going to know when they said no, know why they said no. Like, I just protect myself throughout the day in that way. And also in the way that is protecting the client. It's protecting the things that they asked me to do. And at least I'm checking with them. If they say no, I'm not going to force them, but I am going to note it. So that way, later down the line, if they're like, oh, we never got this, I can look back on my notes and be like, hey, that specific portion that you guys asked for, I came to ask you about it. You said you just kind of wanted to, like, chill the rest of the night and so we just left it at that. So I protect myself in a way, and I protect, you know, they're not going to remember, you know what I mean? So. So that's why I try to make an effort for both me and my second tutors. If there's something that doesn't happen on the wedding day, like, we. We always make a note of it. And just so that way, if an ever comes back, we can tell them, hey, this is what was happening. That's why we decided not to do it. Yeah.

[Abby McLeod]

X, Y, Z. I love that. I think taking note is such a good idea. And I know for myself in. In certain situations where I've done like, like portraitures or, you know, their romantics or whatever, and they've cut it, like, much earlier than we had a lot of the time for. Cause they're just. I can tell they're tapped out and they're like, like, like, I think we're good. Like, we feel good. You know, I. If I notice myself, I'm like, hey, we. I just saw you guys start to relax for a second, and I just started to get those, like, real emotions or whatever. Like, I will be honest with them and be like, hey, let me tell you. Like, I'm gonna tell you right now, I got a few fantastic photos. You will have some fantastic photos. If you, like, want to go back to your cocktail hour right now, that's totally fine. But I will tell you, if we spend another, like, five to eight minutes out here and you guys just, like, fully, like, don't feel the pressure to go back in for a second, just, like, relax and sink it and like, verbally in that moment, be like, I really think another five minutes will give you guys, like, the photos that will make you, like, squeal later on. If you don't want that. If you would so much rather be present today, that's totally fine. I just want to make sure you know that I think we could get a little bit more that will make your gallery a little bit more of what you may have hoped for, envisioned. I'll, like, be honest in that moment when they're like, hey, I'm ready to step away. I'll be like, great. That's totally fine. We absolutely can. I have no issues with that. But I probably only gave you right now with what I just shot, you probably only have about 10 photos of you guys together. Do you want more than that? And, like, that honest communication, they'll be like, oh, yeah, actually, let's do. Because they hear the shutter clicking and they're like, oh, my gosh, we get.

[Lindsay Roman]

We have 500.

[Abby McLeod]

Yeah, we have so many. And I'm like, yeah, no, totally.

[Grace Torres]

I'm. There's like a level, obviously, you know, where the, where you can be honest with the client. You don't want to be overly honest, like, stress them out or give them too many options. But totally, I'll be super honest with my clients. If they're, like, tapped out, I'll be like, hey, honestly, we got some really good ones. You probably only have like three poses. Do you want to get more, like, fives? You want some more variety? Sometimes people are like, oh, actually, yeah, now that you said that, let's. Let's just suck it up and do a couple more. Or sometimes they're like, yeah, no, I'm good. I'm like, all right. Yeah, I asked. You said, no, go enjoy. Like, that is totally fine. But at least I gave them the option and yes, gave them, like, the knowledge of the expectation of what they're going to receive.

[Abby McLeod]

Exactly. Yeah. I think it's all about communication with your clients before, during, and after all.

[Lindsay Roman]

You mentioned something earlier, Grace, about just how weddings can be fast paced and you only have so much time, like, you have to move quickly. And I feel like half of the skill of a wedding photographer is being able to be like, create stylized image. Create stylized, candid images and create it on the drop of a dime in two seconds before the moment's gone. That's like the quintessential, like, crux of a wedding. Like, that is what you. That is what the job is.

[Abby McLeod]

Do you have a beautifully composed image in just, like 2 seconds flat as the moment's occurring?

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, as it's going. Do you have any tips on, like, things that you actively do on a wedding day to either help make that easier or just tips in general to accomplish that seamlessly?

[Grace Torres]

One of the first things that I do is I am very intentionally in pre production, whether I'm speaking with the wedding planner, if they'll. They're full service, or whether I'm speaking with the client, if they have partial or if they just want to be more involved. But. But I do a couple of different meetings with them to get a feel for timeline and also get a feel for their preferences. Like, if I know that they love my editorial stuff and they want wedding party photos where, like, we have multiple different poses and people are sitting and standing, and I know that they have like seven people on each side. Like, I give myself plenty of time, so I don't feel rushed through that so that I can make, you know, those really fun but also, like, very striking images where it's very, very intentional. I give myself a lot of time for that stuff, but that's only something that I'm able to do. If I kind of get in really early in pre production and makes sure that I have time reserved for that, make sure it's with like, the planner and all that good stuff. And also it comes from just getting to know their priorities. Like, if I know that about the client, obviously I can make the time. If I don't really know a ton about them, then it's harder for me to understand how much time I need to allocate when it comes to more candid stuff on the day of. It's something that I've been working on. Especially over the past year. I've really tried to work on my approach on wedding days and just like, focus on that. I like I said, I typically a lot more composed, like, intentional with my imagery. But I've really been trying to look at candid throughout a day as just like, it's okay, basically, like, if you throw it in black and white, like, just click the shutter anyway, like, stop being stressed about, like, if it looks good or not. Because that definitely was holding me back. I'd be like, oh, this is like, not great lighting. Or like, it's a good moment, but I would kind of hesitate to capture it to try to get a better composition or something when really, like, I was. I've been challenging myself to just, like, be a little bit more shutter happy, to be honest, because I'm not super shutter happy. And just like, click, click, click away as things are going on. No matter what it looks like, I can try to fix it in post or I can make a black and white in post, but at least I have the moment. So I've been challenging myself and my main second shooter to be a bit more just free with our. Free with our candidates.

[Abby McLeod]

I love that.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's such a good tip. Because I. I find myself sometimes it's like, oh, I'll see. I'll anticipate a hug happening before it happens. And I'll be like, oh, okay, I need to take a photo of that. But then I'm like, oh, but we're in a room with no windows and there's tungsten light. And I'm like, but it's like in.

[Grace Torres]

Pain trying to do it, forcing the.

[Abby McLeod]

Finger down on the shutter.

[Grace Torres]

Literally, I'm like, oh, it's painful to do this, but at the end of the day I'm like, okay, I can just make it black and white and it's still a really great emotionally resonant image. And they're not going to care that much if it was taken in like a room with no windows. It's not a big deal. So.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right.

[Grace Torres]

Just kind of letting go of that, like want to be perfect in every image when it's just. It's not necessary for those specific images. There's a time and a place for it, but it doesn't have to be all day. Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

What is like your typical gear list or like gear lineup? So I, I mostly am talking about lenses on like a wedding day to get that more fine art editorial style.

[Grace Torres]

I use two Canon R5s as my mains. Um, I've tried out their Mark 2. It's really cool. I would love to get it one day. Just like don't want to replace all my gear right now cause it's expensive. But I did get to try it out and it was really sick. Um, and then I use my 28 to 70 pretty much all day. Um, I've done like, I've tried to do like 35, 50, 85. Cause I actually have tendonitis. So I'm like trying to reduce the flare up. But I just always come back to it because it's so convenient. So I typically have a 28 to 70 on me and then I also have a prime on me. So I'll have like my 50 millimeter or my 85 millimeter to get a really beautiful compressed shot. Again, something that I feel like is a lot more fine art, traditional vibes. But I love that look. I love like the compression. I love like a little bit more of a traditional look. So I like to have a prime on me because a lot of times if I'm able to pull it out during portraits, I will use my prime for like a lot of the portraiture. Use my 28 to 70 for like close up shots or really wide shots. Or just basically when I can't use my 50, I have it on me. Um, and then for the ceremony I typically do like 28 to 70, 70 to 200. Because I do like to be very inconspicuous, if that's the right word. Like I don't like to be in the middle of the aisle or like in front of people. I like for people to not be paying attention to me. I hate like sitting in the middle of the aisle and like blocking the people behind me. So I pretty much shoot on like a 20 or 70 to 200 or like an 85. And then I have my second shooter on a different prime all day. Um, so typically the 85. So the. They can get a variety of different angles at that different focal length. 85 is so crispy, so we love it.

[Lindsay Roman]

We love an 85 I love.

[Abby McLeod]

But it's so funny how you can, like, sit here and be like, oh, my gosh, the 85, so dreamy. But the 28 to 70, like, is my. Like, it's so funny how, like, as a photographer, you're like, I love them both for different reasons. They're both like, so beautiful and perfect for different reasons.

[Grace Torres]

So it's just, like, so convenient. I'm like, I can't give it up every time I try. I'm like, oh, I wish I had my 20 to 70 with. I know.

[Abby McLeod]

And once you get used to it too, once you get used to, like, a really good quality zoom lens and you're used to that flexibility on a wedding day, trying to go back to anything. Like, I've caught myself before. Same thing where I'll, like, go back to like, a 50 or an 85. And I try to zoom in and I'm like, ah, Ah. Like, I can't do. I have to move. This is wild. You get used to it. You can't go back. I love it. Okay, Grace, I have a question. Question in. It's not really on the topic of editorial, like, posing or anything, but I'm just really curious for the person who's listening to this, who's like, okay, this is where I want to be. I want to be working in the higher end with, you know, more wedding planners as well as, like, clients. I want that the clients who are still, you know, resonating with the candid, but also love that touch of editorial who want to be present on their wedding day. Like, everything you're describing. I want to get 600 inquiries. Like, the. The person who's listening to this who's like, I would love to be in the place where Grace is. I'd love to take that step from, like, mid, like, tier wedding photography to the higher end wedding photography. I know you made that jump yourself somewhat recently, right? In the last, like, couple of years.

[Grace Torres]

Can you.

[Abby McLeod]

Do you have any, like, encouragement thoughts, tips for the photographer who's listening to this of what steps or what things they should focus on or do to kind of start or like, along the.

[Lindsay Roman]

Line of minimalizing Website?

[Abby McLeod]

Yeah, like, we touched on that. Like, like trimming some things down and showcasing A variety of portfolio, but like, I don't know, just any thoughts or tips that you're like, I did this, it worked really well for me. Or this is really what like lurched my success forward faster. Anything you have?

[Grace Torres]

Totally. Yeah. I feel like, I mean, I'm sure you guys have seen this a ton. You guys have been in education much longer than I have. But a lot of times when I work with people who are in like the budget to mid level market and like wanting to increase pricing and get into a different market, we really have to come and like strip their business down to the bones and rebuild their foundation, rebuild their mindset, adapt their messaging, become really, really clear about their ideal client and then we can move on from there. A lot of people do lack that foundation because in the beginning you just don't really think about it. You just kind of build. You're managing your inquiries, you're learning how to shoot. You don't really have the time to, to do that in the beginning. And then once you're busy, it's like, oh, well, I'm busy. Like, why would I need to rethink my whole business? Like, I'm obviously having success right now, but moving into a different market. You have to like really go back foundation. Build a really strong foundation for yourself. Curation when it comes to imagery is very, very important. That's something that I've learned over the past year. And then at the end of the day like it's all relationships, which is very similar to like, I feel like corporate life, it's all about who you know. But that is so, so true in the high end wedding space. Relationship building is like my 247 job right now. Obviously I'm always working on my craft and like, I feel like I'm always going to be improving that. But, um, I've really been working hard at making new relationships with other vendors in this space to propel myself forward and just kind of be in front of more clients who are aligned with my style.

[Abby McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Abby McLeod]

What does that mean?

[Grace Torres]

Yeah. Wait, wait.

[Abby McLeod]

Okay.

[Grace Torres]

What, what?

[Abby McLeod]

Can you break down a little bit of the. Were you gonna say the same thing?

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, I was gonna say like when you say making connections with wedding vendors.

[Abby McLeod]

Yeah, I was like, break it down. Are.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, are you, are you the kind of person that you're like reaching out via email. Email or DM to somebody that like you maybe never worked with? Or is it only once you've like done a wedding together that you're really like sending them the gallery and really like making like follow up, like what? Or both.

[Grace Torres]

I definitely do both. Because if I'm working with a whole team, like I want to show my appreciation and gratitude for the opportunity to work with them. I want them all to see the images. I'm excited for them to see them. So I am intentional about sending out those galleries. I don't, I'm not always on time. Okay. But I try to be. Sometimes I'm like, sorry, it's been like four months, but it's finally here.

[Abby McLeod]

That's relatable.

[Grace Torres]

Totally forgot to send this out. It's just life gets crazy. So I do make an effort to keep up with planners that I have really enjoyed working with. Same with venues. There's a couple of venues that I've like been putting myself out there for years with. Like for example, Oxford Exchange, most frequented venue of my year. Every single year of business that I've been in for the most part. Like year two and on. Still not on the perfect under list. But I still shoot my shot every time. I still try. You know what I mean?

[Abby McLeod]

Yeah.

[Grace Torres]

It's a drive. And then I do a little bit of. I will do outreach with planners that I've never worked with. I try not to just like send them an email out of nowhere. So. But I also have been making a very concerted effort to do more in person because I do think in person is very, very effective. There's only so much you can get through a screen, through emails, through social media interaction. There's just like, there's only so much that you can do there. So I went to WIPA up in New York. I been involved with a, like a networking group here on the. What coast are we on? We're on the west coast. The west coast. Florid. So we meet every month. I'm going to something next week with them. So I usually am seeing people like once a month. So I'm able to see my favorite DJ once a month. And like three of my favorite wedding planners. I'm able to see them once a month instead of just once or twice a year when we have a wedding together. Yeah. And I am working on going to like hopefully going to some of the bigger networking events. I looked at Kinetic and then I've also looked at engage for 2026 when I feel a bit more confident with my portfolio. I don't like feel like I'm there yet. Definitely a lot of it is probably self doubt. My, my business coach is always like why do you like tell yourself that? Like, like you don't you know, stop telling yourself that and you don't be so down on yourself. Like, you know, you. You could easily go this year and be fine, but it's a self confidence thing for me. Um, but I am working on being in the room with some people that are in that, like, space that I would like to be in in the next, like, couple of years. So it's very uncomfortable for me. But I'm definitely working really hard at, like, trying my best to do things that are uncomfortable and put myself out there, because that is the difference between stagnanc, like, moving up in your business.

[Lindsay Roman]

So, yeah, I feel like so many people probably resonate so hard with what you just said and almost probably find comfort in that. Cause there, I can guarantee, you, can guarantee you, us included, like, people that are listening to this podcast that, like, look at your work and they're like, oh, my gosh, I would die to have work that looks like Grace's. And maybe this isn't comforting to know that, like, even. Even you feel down about, like, you know, like, we. There's an element of every photographer that we're like, our work sucks. You know, like, we all have that moment.

[Abby McLeod]

It could be better. Even that thought of, like, I could be so much better. I'm not there yet.

[Grace Torres]

It looks like this person or, oh, my gosh, I just. I wish that I could capture things the way that this person does. But then I will talk to that person and they're like, oh, but I'm actually struggling here in my business. And I'm like, oh. I'm like, okay, cool. We both have struggles. Like, we are both humans.

[Abby McLeod]

Everyone does. Especially, I feel like, especially with photography because it's such a personal art form. And it feels. Feels like it's. It's not one of those things that's like, oh, I'm doing a mathematical equation and 2 plus 2 equals 4. And I did the math right, and here you go. Like, here's your, you know, whatever. It just feels like very, like, black and white, cut and dried. Like, here's how you do this. It's such a personal thing. So there's an element, like, with the hug that came on in the tungsten light room. You're like, in hindsight, shoot. I should have shifted myself to the left because the glow of, like, that bulb behind them would have actually been like, more, you know, it would have cast a light, even. Whatever.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, you had pointed two seconds to do that.

[Abby McLeod]

Yeah. But we beat ourselves up because it's a personal thing that it's like, this could have been done a hundred thousand different ways, and I did it this way in that drop of the hat, and I should have maybe done it this way. And so it's easy to be like, oh, I'm not there yet, or I'm not better. And we always have a moving mile marker, too, because when we start, we look at somebody who's like, 10 steps ahead of us, and we're like, wow. And then we get to that 10 steps, and we, like, look 20 steps ahead. We're like, wow. And it just never stops. It's always moving.

[Grace Torres]

No, definitely. And I really. I feel like one of the things that I like. I guess I like about myself is I do feel like I am pretty good about taking others work as, like, more of inspiration than anything. But there are so many times that you just, like, can't help but compare yourself, especially if someone gets a wedding that you really wanted or something like that. I'm, like, really not a super competitive person. I'm friends with all of my biggest competitors, like, around this area, and we all chat, and we're all very transparent with each other, but it still kind of feel like a bummer if you're like, oh, man, that wedding, that. It was so cool. I'm so happy for my friend that got it, but I kind of wish I got it. So, um, it's a balance, but I definitely, like, make an effort to look at other people's stuff. It's just like, oh, my gosh, that's so inspiring. It's, like, really cool to see that that's possible rather than, like, why am I not putting out work of that caliber, you know?

[Abby McLeod]

Yeah, I love it. Okay. I have, like, one just. I don't know if Lindsay has any other, but for me, I'm like, okay, one final question in this area, because I feel like you covered so beautifully, like, the editorial versus, like, candid. It's like, how do you communicate that? How do you get that to your clients? You show it in portfolio left and right, and then you communicate it verbally to them on consult calls and such. Like, here's my approach. Here's why I do this. Here's what you can expect. Here's how you get photos like this as I pose you a bit more and then let you have the moment. Like, I feel like you just are like, here's how I communicate it, and here's how I showcase it and attract these clients. I. I'm, like, touching on again this in this season. Like, your publication repertoire is insane. Stunning. The list that you have under your belt already is like magical. Do you have for the person who's also listening who's like, hey, I'm, I'm in mid tier, you know, intermediate, mid tier, whatever you want to call that, trying to step up into like a little bit higher end into those publications, working with these, you know, more wedding planners than just directly with clients, which is in the higher end market. What would you say is like your number one tip or thing that you found worked for you in getting published or submitting your work?

[Grace Torres]

So some of my publications are just randomly. They reached out to me, they found a photo that they liked our wedding that they liked. And they were like, we want to publish this. Which is pretty rare. But I think like June Bug has done that and Green Wedding Shoes has done that. Some of them are directories that I'm a part of and that includes a public, like a publication. And then some of them are paid advertising. So it's important in the industry, I think for there to be a level of awareness that just like any other industry, there are places that you can pay to advertise your work. And there's nothing wrong with that. Obviously, like, it is important to note that it is an advertisement. And that's something that I did years ago, especially even when I did my first like big feature, which was with British Vogue. You can see it in the photo. Like the first thing I say is like, I think I said something like, I'm really honored to have been a part of this advertorial. Like, it was not a secret that it was a paid advertising campaign that is relevant. Or at least back when I did it, it felt a little bit more selective than it is right now. But I think that it was so worth it for my business. Regardless of it being like a paid advertisement for British Vogue versus like a full wedding feature for US Vogue with some like celebrity couple. Like, that is just not an opportunity that I have right now. Would love that one day. But it definitely helped to elevate my portfolio and then also elevate my brand perception. Another thing is just some of the directories are a little bit more selective than others. So like the Wed, I had to submit a portfolio for Anti Bride, which I never joined, but I had to submit a portfolio and get accepted. Same thing with the Lane. They're very selective. I was actually really shocked to get accepted by them because I'm definitely not like as moody as their other photographers. But a lot of it was intentional choice just because I want to be considered among the other photographers and artists and vendors that are featured in these publications or featured in these directories because they are relatively selective, especially somewhere like the lane. Like, they are really selective. Something like over the moon. That would be another one. Like, would be, like, a goal one day to be featured among artists in that directory, just to be considered among, like, that same level. But I do think you can totally submit around. Like, submit to Ruffled, submit to Carrots and Cake, submit to June Bug, submit to Green Wedding Shoes. Like, you can submit by yourself. One thing, especially if you have a couple that's really enthusiastic about wedding planning is after the wedding when they're, like, looking at their previews and they're kind of, like, coming off the wedding high after their honeymoon. A lot of brides have, like, the wedding blues. So sometimes I'll reach out and just be like, hey, I'm still working on your photos. I hope you loved your sneak peeks. I really am so proud of the way that this wedding turned out. I would love to be able to submit this for publication while everything's still fresh on your mind and you're kind of like, reliving everything through sneak peeks. Would you mind answering a couple questions for me and then I can use that information to submit? So I'll be like, tell me about the inspiration behind your design and colors and your florals. Tell me about your dress. Tell me about the cake. Okay. What kind of food did your guest see? What are some of your favorite guest experiences? It's kind of like, I feel like maybe therapeutic for the client if they, like, love their wedding planning process to be able to get it out on paper. And it's also multipurpose, you know, so that I can go. And when I go to submit, I have all the information. I don't have to ask them, like, two months later. It's kind of like, fresh on their mind. So, yeah, you can obviously submit by yourself. There are, like, PR companies ofd and be inspired. They will submit for you and they will, like, guarantee you placements. From what I've heard, they're very spot on with. If you bring a wedding, some they pretty much know, hey, I feel really confident that we can get you in at this specific publication for really, really, really great things about them. For me right now though, I just, like, I mostly have self. I've only really self submitted my stuff or I've had a PR rep for another vendor submit our stuff.

[Abby McLeod]

Yeah, I love that.

[Lindsay Roman]

That was a beautiful breakdown.

[Abby McLeod]

That was so good. Also just being Honest of like, like, hey, there is a reality because I, I feel like we see it so much in the industry, but sometimes if you're not aware of some of the ins and outs of certain things, you could look and be like, oh my gosh, you've been featured in Vogue. How? And it's like, well, I mean, there's a pos. Strong possibility. Like, I had no idea with you. Grace says, like, there's a strong possibility she's actually been featured in British Vogue. There's a strong possibility it was a paid advertising campaign and either way it's fantastic and it's great for, you know, your portfolio and to be able to like showcase that. And a lot of high end planners really do look for high end publications and see those kinds of things. So like you said, there's nothing wrong with paying for it. But I think when people like photographers don't understand that and they just look and they're like, oh my gosh, you have 50 million. It's going to take me 50 years to get, you know, these names or to get to that level. It's like, hey, sometimes you just have to go and like knock on the door and be willing to put some money down on it or you know, work hard and submit this one wedding that you love to like keep trying, like it will get into a good publication. You just have to like make sure it's the right fit and work on it. So I love that. Yeah, like transparency and being like, hey, here's what I've done, here's what's worked for me. Here's a few, you know, ins and outs of, of what I've gone through and figured out over the years because I love that and I think that's so powerful and so helpful for the photographers.

[Grace Torres]

For sure.

[Abby McLeod]

Yeah.

[Grace Torres]

Like there are some weddings that have been published that were just like picked up that I'm so proud of. I'm like so excited that the publication and just pick them up based off of like the merit of the wedding. And then there are some where I'm like, okay, I made a really intentional choice to align myself with a specific brand name and it's been very successful for me in the, you know, in my as seen as repertoire. So yeah, I mean, just like any other business, I don't think that there's anything wrong with like hate advertising. Like people do it everywhere. But also it is an ethical choice to disclose that when you like share about it. You know what I mean?

[Abby McLeod]

Yeah, for sure.

[Grace Torres]

That's important as well.

[Abby McLeod]

Yeah, and if I, like, I forget who I was talking to. Was it Lark and Kendall? We were discussing paid Vogue maids or whatever, and we were saying something like, hey, if a client comes up to you and is like, oh, my gosh, you were in Vogue, like, what. What wedding? Or something, like, to not be like, well, so. And, like, trying to, like, still make it seem like if they didn't understand that, to be like, oh, yeah, it was like a paid, you know, advertising campaign. I had the opportunity to get my work, like, seen in Vogue. It was so amazing. I loved it. Like, you know, and you just being like, that honest versus, like, trying to, like, twist it is like you're saying.

[Grace Torres]

Just, like, I'm proud of it. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

[Abby McLeod]

No.

[Grace Torres]

Especially when I first. Well, the first time I got the email, I thought it was spam, so I ignored them for, like, a year. And then I realized it wasn't because I saw other people posting about it and I was like, oh, like, maybe that was real. So, yeah, I went back and I emailed the. The contacts there. But, like, I'm proud that back again, like I said, I do feel like when I had done mine, it felt a lot more selective because this was a couple years ago and I didn't really know anyone else who had been in the campaign. So I felt super excited to, like, have been selected and stuff like that. And I'm super pro. Still am, obviously. But yeah, I mean, like, if you look at every other industry, people pay to be on, like, oh, my gosh, the best skin care of whatever. Like, everybody pays for that stuff. It's like, it's just a part of advertising.

[Abby McLeod]

Yep. 100. Or like, you know, as seen on whatever TV show or something. Like, half the time you have to, like, pitch and pay big bucks to get on that TV show.

[Lindsay Roman]

Part of the game.

[Abby McLeod]

Yeah. 100. I love that it's part of advertising.

[Grace Torres]

But as long as I think we're being, like, ethical and transparent with our clients and stuff like that.

[Abby McLeod]

Yes.

[Grace Torres]

Obviously, we don't want our clients to just assume that if they book with us, we're going to get them into these huge publications like that, because that is not true for the average person. Normally you have to be, like, somewhat famous.

[Abby McLeod]

Yeah.

[Grace Torres]

So, yeah, we don't want to create any, like, I guess we don't want to be deceptive or a false. Yeah. False expectations or anything like that. But, yeah, intentional choices with advertising, like, it has served me very, very well.

[Abby McLeod]

So I love it. That's amazing. Amazing.

[Lindsay Roman]

Grace, you've given us, like so much goodness on this episode. I just want to know what, what Is there anything that you are excited for or looking forward to in your business for 2025? Like, where is Grace Torres going?

[Grace Torres]

I'm really excited about some of the planners that I'm working with. I definitely limited my travel a lot this coming year. Just I've been a little bit more selective of if I'm going to travel. I want to be traveling for a unique venue or like a really lovely couple or something. Something like that. So I've reduced my travel schedule a lot and I'm very excited to have a little bit more balance to be home. Honestly, more. This isn't even business related, but like to be home, like, to spend more time with my friends, to take care of myself and take care of my health a little bit more than I've ever been able to because my work schedule has been like, very rigorous. I'm just excited to have more balance in my life. But I'm also really excited because all of the work that I did take on, it feels very aligned. The clients are amazing. I'm really excited to work with them. The venues are inspiring. I have some venues that I'm super excited to shoot at. But yeah, I'm excited for a year of balance and just like enjoying enjoying it a little bit more and having, I guess, more like routine to my life than when I was traveling like 20 times a year. It was just not the same vibe.

[Lindsay Roman]

I feel that we love that for you.

[Abby McLeod]

That's amazing. We're here for balance and sustainable businesses.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes. Like, what is the word? Yes, that's exactly it.

[Abby McLeod]

I love. Okay, Grace, for our audience, who is now just in love with you, has checked out your work throughout this episode and is like, oh, my gosh, draw on the floor. I need to follow her, be inspired by her, learn from her. All of the things. Where can everyone find you and connect with you?

[Grace Torres]

My Instagram and all my socials, Tik Tok, all that good stuff is Grace Torres photo and then my business Instagram or like business coaching Instagram is Grace Torres education. Love. Amazing.

[Lindsay Roman]

Thank you so much, Grace, for being here and just giving us and our listeners all of your incredible wisdom.

[Abby McLeod]

Yes, it was a joy.

[Grace Torres]

Thank you for having me. I'm a longtime listener, so this is super fun.

[Abby McLeod]

I love your amazing guest, guys.