429: Wedding Timelines: How to Approach as a Wedding Photographer

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Heart & Hustle Podcast - Episode 429: Wedding Timelines: How to Approach as a Wedding Photographer

Release Date: April 15, 2025

In Episode 429 of The Heart & Hustle Podcast, hosts Evie McLeod and Lindsay Roman delve deep into the intricacies of managing wedding timelines from the perspective of a wedding photographer. Tailored specifically for wedding photographers, this episode offers a wealth of practical advice, strategies, and personal insights to help photographers effectively plan, communicate, and execute their roles on a wedding day.

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1. Understanding the Role of a Photographer in Wedding Timelines

Evie and Lindsay begin by highlighting the unique position photographers hold in wedding planning, especially when a couple does not have a dedicated wedding planner.

• Evie McLeod [03:00]: “Even on the weddings that maybe have a day of coordinator, they may not have been super involved with timeline planning because they don't know a lot of the ins and outs.”

They emphasize that without a high-end planner, photographers often act as unofficial timeline managers, ensuring that photo sessions receive adequate time and attention.

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2. Timeline Preparation and Communication

Effective communication is paramount in timeline preparation. The hosts outline their approach to coordinating timelines three months before the wedding.

• Evie McLeod [04:00]: “Typically, we send an email about three months in advance requesting a timeline from the bride or the planner.”

If a timeline isn't provided, Evie directs brides to their wedding guide for timeline tips and offers personalized Zoom calls to assist in creating a comprehensive schedule.

• Lindsay Roman [05:42]: “We both offer like, hey, at any point in time if you want to hop on a call, we offer up a Zoom call to go through this together if they need it.”

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3. Establishing Non-Negotiables

Setting clear non-negotiables ensures that photographers can deliver quality work without compromising their standards or well-being.

• Minimum Portrait Time: Both Evie and Lindsay insist on a minimum of 30 minutes for couple portraits to capture meaningful moments.

  • Lindsay Roman [15:24]: “The first one is an absolute minimum of 30 minutes total for couple portraits on a wedding day.”

• Buffer Times: They advocate for adding buffer times to each segment to accommodate unexpected delays.

  • Evie McLeod [16:10]: “If I think a session will take 15 minutes, I make it 20 on the schedule.”

• Photographer Breaks: Ensuring that the photography team has time to eat is another critical non-negotiable.

  • Lindsay Roman [17:15]: “The photo team needs to be able to eat a meal during dinner... I get a 30-minute break with a meal.”

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4. Recommended Time Allocation for Wedding Sections

Evie and Lindsay provide detailed recommendations on how much time to allocate for various parts of the wedding day:

• Getting Ready:

  • Lindsay Roman [36:39]: “If they're wanting like guys and girls details, a second shooter can divide the time.”

• First Look:

  • Evie McLeod [32:07]: “We recommend at least 30 minutes, ideally more if the timeline allows.”

• Wedding Party & Family Photos:

  • Lindsay Roman [34:21]: “A minimum of 15 to 20 minutes, extending to 30-45 minutes for larger families.”

• Sunset Portraits:

  • Evie McLeod [37:07]: “We recommend 30 minutes minimum, ideally 45 minutes.”

• Reception Coverage:

  • Recommendations vary based on the couple's wishes, with emphasis on flexibility to accommodate toasts and dancing.

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5. Managing Delays and Extending Coverage

Delays are inevitable, whether due to late hair and makeup or extended toasts. The hosts discuss strategies to handle such situations gracefully.

• Handling Late Hair and Makeup:

  • Lindsay Roman [08:35]: “Establish a hard stop time for hair and makeup to prevent delays.”

• Communicating Overages:

  • Evie McLeod [43:53]: “I will invoice you for the additional time... I'm happy to stay for the cake cutting.”

They stress the importance of communicating openly with clients about extra charges and setting boundaries to protect their time and services.

• Lindsay Roman [44:16]: “Set a boundary of, like, I will charge for this time if it's beyond this point.”

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6. Operating Without a Planner

Without a dedicated wedding planner, photographers may need to take on additional responsibilities to keep the day on track.

• Coordination with Venue Coordinators:

  • Evie McLeod [22:24]: “If there's not a planner, I care how incredible this planner is and communicate clearly.”

• Vendor Communication:

  • Ensuring that photographers are not isolated and can remain present to capture moments effectively.

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7. Educating Clients on Coverage and Timelines

Educating clients about what different coverage packages entail helps set realistic expectations and ensures satisfaction.

• Explaining Coverage Hours:

  • Evie McLeod [48:00]: “Six hours will cover main events; ten hours will cover full day details.”

• Visual Aids:

  • Sharing sample galleries corresponding to different coverage lengths to help clients visualize the outcome.

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8. Additional Tips and Best Practices

• Detailed Shot Lists:

  • Evie McLeod [35:04]: “Have a very detailed first name shot list in advance.”

• Utilizing Second Shooters:

  • Helps in managing multiple photo sessions simultaneously, reducing overall time.

• Flexibility and Adaptability:

  • Evie McLeod [54:22]: “Go with the flow. Communicate with the planner and clients continuously.”

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Key Takeaways

1. Proactive Communication: Establishing timelines three months ahead and maintaining open lines of communication with clients and planners is crucial.
2. Setting Boundaries: Defining non-negotiables such as minimum portrait times and necessary breaks ensures quality work and personal well-being.
3. Flexibility in Planning: Being prepared to adjust timelines and handle unforeseen delays with grace can make or break the wedding day experience.
4. Client Education: Clearly explaining what different coverage packages include helps clients make informed decisions and sets realistic expectations.
5. Utilizing Resources: Second shooters and detailed shot lists can enhance efficiency and ensure comprehensive coverage of the event.

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Notable Quotes:

• Lindsay Roman [08:06]: “If any bride is listening to this for the love, hire a planner, please.”
• Evie McLeod [16:10]: “I want at least a five-minute buffer put on that so that I could say... this is not eating into my photo time.”
• Lindsay Roman [44:16]: “Set a boundary of, like, I will charge for this time if it's beyond this point.”
• Evie McLeod [54:22]: “Communicating... go with the flow.”

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Conclusion

Evie McLeod and Lindsay Roman provide invaluable insights for wedding photographers aiming to master the art of timeline management. Their blend of practical tips, personal experiences, and emphasis on communication equips photographers with the tools needed to navigate the complexities of wedding days successfully. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting, this episode offers strategies to enhance your services, ensure client satisfaction, and ultimately deliver unforgettable moments captured beautifully.

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Transcript

[Evie McLeod]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are your hosts, Evie McLeod and Lindsay Roman. Welcome back to the show my friend. We are so excited to have another day and another episode with you learning and growing together as we dive into businesses and life and growing and all of the things. This is going to be a really fun episode. This is probably very specific to our wedding photographers, but it is going to be hopefully very helpful and very like inside tea information or inside scoop, I guess, inside look, whatever to how we approach timelines as a wedding photographer and we kind of break down a lot of insight into what that communication looks like in advance. Timeline prep on the day of the wedding when things are running behind, communicating with the bride, all of that, we give timeline chunks that we typically are like a bare minimum for the two of us on wedding days. There's a lot of information communicate I.

[Lindsay Roman]

Feel like with a planner, tips to the planner or to the bride herself.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, there's a lot in here. So if you are a wedding photographer or want to be and you want to hear our process behind this, keep listening.

[Lindsay Roman]

Do you ever feel like your Instagram growth is stagnant and people coming to your page clearly aren't hitting follow and therefore converting into leads and paying clients? Hand is raised. We've all been there. While there could be other marketing issues within your business, one of the easiest fixes and most effective ways to convert clients into customers on social media is through one simple little sentence. Your Instagram bio. Yeah, we know it sounds so simple. But here's the thing. The that little block of 150 characters is precious real estate. You want to leave a stellar and clear first impression. And if someone is hopping onto your feed and is confused for even a second about who you are, what you do and what they can get from following your account, you have lost them completely. So to help you create clarity on your Instagram, we are sharing a free guide with all of the ingredients necessary to create a powerful, concise and clear Instagram bio for your business. You can snag our free resource through theheartuniversity.com forward/bio. Hey hey. I'm Lindsay Roman.

[Evie McLeod]

And I'm Evie McLeod and we are family and legacy focused serial entrepreneurs and the founders of the Hart University, a business education company with a mission to help you thrive in your business and life.

[Lindsay Roman]

Welcome to our Entrepreneur Cocktail hour where business and marketing strategies meet face faith, real talk and raw and life changing conversations.

[Evie McLeod]

At the end of the day, we are all in this together figuring out how to navigate the ups and downs, the messy and the beautiful, and everything in between. This is a community where you can come as you are, get inspired and walk away. Equipped to build a legacy filled life.

[Lindsay Roman]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. All right, Evelyn, let's get into it.

[Evie McLeod]

Alrighty, I'm ready. Okay.

[Lindsay Roman]

I feel like to start off, we're gonna kind of like dive this into almost like Q A a little bit in. In how we structure this episode.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

However, caveat before we start, most of. I feel like wedding planning timeline is very different if your couple has a planner versus if it. They don't.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, very different.

[Lindsay Roman]

And I feel like we mostly focused a little bit more on the. The planner or. Sorry, the bride doesn't have a planner or has a planner that isn't like super involved. I guess.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Like the. Maybe.

[Lindsay Roman]

Would you agree with that? Like, yeah, because if the planner is like up on it, like really like a high end planner and you're mostly communicating with the planner and not the bride.

[Evie McLeod]

And the planner is very experienced. That's one of the things like a higher price point or luxury quote unquote. Planner typically has like 10 plus years of experience. So they know a lot more about timelines and structuring it. Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And it's like they're almost leading the charge. Whereas when the bride doesn't have a planner, I feel like the photographer is like the backup planner.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, totally. I think everyone would agree with that. And even on the. The weddings that maybe have a day of coordinator, they may not have like, they may be a slightly newer or they may not have been like super involved with like timeline planning because they don't know a lot of the ins and outs of things. They're just there implement day of, you know, things like that.

[Lindsay Roman]

I would also say, but we touched.

[Evie McLeod]

On both a little bit with planner and on.

[Lindsay Roman]

I don't. The planner is planning everything like holistically. Their goal is not to make sure that the couple gets like the best lighting and has enough time for photos. Like obviously that's something that they consider, but that's not.

[Evie McLeod]

That's one factor out of like 20 for them.

[Lindsay Roman]

Whereas for us that's like everything and we're. Our job as a photographer is to.

[Evie McLeod]

Make sure that's communicated.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. And. And if the couple is hiring us for a specific look, we want to be able to communicate effectively. Hey, in order to get these photo that you're wanting, this is what has to happen in the timeline. And it's almost like trying to communicate with that, with the bride and or planner if there is one.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Okay, so we're just gonna dive in. We, we do give some caveats of like a couple things within planners within this too. But how involved are we in timeline preparation? That's the first kind of let's talk about timeline prep in advance of the day. So typically we send emails like roughly 3ish months before the wedding day. Obviously there's a lot of other communication too, but like regarding timeline, we send an email about three months in advance requesting a timeline from the bride or the planner if they haven't already shared one with us at that point. If they do not have a timeline.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yet, like at the three month mark.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, like typically if they haven't shared one. Typically in that email we give like timeline tips, things to look for. Or I'll like redirect my brides back to their like wedding guide where I have a lot of tips on timelines and different things in there.

[Lindsay Roman]

I mean your wedding guide, you said their wedding guide, which.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, like my wedding guide. That is in their hands.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Upon booking.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Where I give like a lot of like recommendations and things. But oftentimes at that point, especially if a bride isn't working with a planner, she'll be like, hey, I don't even know where to start. I haven't even thought about timeline yet other than like ceremony starts at X time.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

So at that point we are willing.

[Lindsay Roman]

To give like recommendations for like hey, this is what we recommend for. How long the first look would take.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

How long wedding party photos would take. How long family photos would take. Take.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And we're, we're going to answer those specific like times for us on a later part of this episode. But I think also in that email, that three month email we both offer like, hey, at any point in time if you want to hop on a call, like, like we offer up a zoom call.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

To like go through this together if they need it. And some brides do, some brides don't.

[Evie McLeod]

I will say probably nine times out of ten I at least if there's something, there's usually at least one thing on the timeline that concerns me. Whether it's like the amount of time they have allotted for family photos or you know, something like that that I'm like, wait, you have 10 minutes for family photos and you told me you have a huge family and it's the wedding's like 400 people or you know, whatever. I'll be like red flag. So usually there's at least one thing. And sometimes I will communicate that via email. Sometimes I'll be like, hey, I'm so excited. Let's hop on a call and let's discuss. I'll share a few things from the back end of like how this works for me and what I think will lend to a better timeline for you. But especially if they don't have a planner. I would say at least half of my clients, I end up on a planning timeline call with them.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

To kind of help them walk through. Because if you don't have a planner, you. And you've. You've never planned a wedding before. You're shooting Blind Man.

[Lindsay Roman]

Literally. I literally, I'm fresh off of this. I shot a wedding yesterday and there wasn't a planner. Like the only planner per se was like the person from the venue.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's very different in my opinion than an actual planner and a venue coordinator. Yeah. The venue coordinator is, is helping facilitate things to to an extent. But it's like you're missing like the stage manager.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

It's like overseeing the entire day. And as much as like a photographer can help plan the schedule.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

We're not in the position to be micromanaging people and vendors. Other vendors and telling people when to go where and make sure everyone's on time. That's a planner's job. Which if, if any bride is listening to this for the love. Hire a planner, please.

[Evie McLeod]

Even if you do a month of planner.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Like somebody you do most of the actual in advance planning because your budget's really low. But you hire someone to come in the month of and kind of help take over the last minute things and then run the day.

[Lindsay Roman]

It's like you need somebody in that position.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Being a stage manager. I call it stage manager because I'm in whistle but help you.

[Evie McLeod]

We're talking to brides every. This is photographers. But you could be getting married to photographer. It will help you be able to relax so much more on your wedding day. 100 like 10 out of 10. 20 out of 10. 100 out of 10. Recommend.

[Lindsay Roman]

Also literally yesterday the, the timeline from the, from the get go of when we arrived was behind. Was behind about an hour because of the hair and makeup artist. So that's.

[Evie McLeod]

Why does that always happen?

[Lindsay Roman]

That always.

[Evie McLeod]

That always freaking happens.

[Lindsay Roman]

So maybe this is just like a consideration for any brides listening to this or any photographers that want to want help communicating this to your brides or your couples.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

If there's a hair makeup. If there's always Usually a hair and makeup artist make sure they know without a shadow like however long the hair and makeup artist needs to needs whatever time they need. Yeah. You need as a bride or as a photographer telling the bride to tell the makeup artist there needs to be a hard, hard stop of like I need to be me and all of my bridesmaids need to be full stop done by 2pm or you know, whatever time that is because oftentimes I think the I, I'm not also trying to throw hair and makeup artists under the bus.

[Evie McLeod]

I also know there's things beyond that we may not understand that's happening for them too. 100 or the bride miscommunicated or you know, who knows. We don't know but usually I feel.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like that if that because there's an extent of like you physically can't get in your dress and get start moving if like your hair isn't done.

[Evie McLeod]

One thing that I do with my clients with when it comes to hair and makeup because I've run into it so many times that the hair and makeup is always late, 30 to 60 minutes late later than they anticipated. I, I have personally I have my brides have their hair and makeup done an hour earlier than the hair and makeup artist thinks that they will be completely. So like for example, if you're saying like the getting ready photos are supposed to happen at two, I will have the bride's hair and makeup done at one. And I know like some hair and makeup artists will be like oh no, but I want them to be like the freshest. No, I would rather have them done. And like, like I think because you.

[Lindsay Roman]

Usually need the bride and groom first before you need the wedding finish up.

[Evie McLeod]

The last bridesmaid or two or you know, somebody else. I will also say keep in mind the mother of the bride if she's helping the bride get into the dress. If the bridesmaids like have her done before the last bridesmaid.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes.

[Evie McLeod]

Because she may like if there was.

[Lindsay Roman]

If you're, if the hair and makeup artist is doing the mother of the bride's yes. Stuff which usually always they are.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Do her second.

[Evie McLeod]

I'm not even saying the bride needs to go first.

[Lindsay Roman]

I, I, I guess it depends on how many bridesmaids.

[Evie McLeod]

It depends on how many bridesmaids depend on the timeline, whatever. I totally understand why. Because you want to make the hair, the hair and makeup starts at like 8am and they're trying to be done by 1. The bride does not need to be done at 8am however.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, however Depends on how involved her hair and makeup is.

[Evie McLeod]

She needs to be done an hour before I need her for photos. And I always communicate that to my clients because I have said like, I can't tell you the number of weddings I've been to and shot over the years where that is the biggest thing that runs the entire timeline of the day into the ground is hair and not being done on time.

[Lindsay Roman]

100.

[Evie McLeod]

We love you hair and makeup artists, like very, very much.

[Lindsay Roman]

I love that I'm fresh off of a wedding yesterday that literally I'm like, wow, I have so many opinions.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, it's so funny. Okay. We also derailed. None of that was on our notes.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's okay. So that was. How involved are we with the timeline preparation? Pretty involved. Like very involved.

[Evie McLeod]

Very involved. Even I will say, like, even with the higher end weddings that I shoot with, like very like, you know, half a million dollar wedding budgets, like huge.

[Lindsay Roman]

It's just communicating more so with the planner and making sure you're still communicating what time, like because you're an advocate for your client as far as the photo part.

[Evie McLeod]

And I will also say, like, I've had meetings with planners, like high end planners, where they've sent me like a sample timeline. And I'm like, I noticed a red flag on this because my client said they wanted these photos. That's not happening on this timeline at all. And so I'll like message the bride and be like, do you still want that? And if she's like, oh, yes, I do, very much so. I'll be like, no worries, I'll work it out with the planner.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

And I'll hop on with the planner and be like, hey, here's what she said. Here's the amount of time I need allotted. And then I'll kind of like, I'll still let her typically or him run, you know, their side of things. Because a good planner, man, oh my gosh, they are phenomenal. And they're so good to work with as a photographer. They're incredible. But sometimes you do need to communicate your needs and advocate like you're saying, for what your client has communicated to you is a really important aspect for them that you need to have shifted just a tiny bit for you to be able to fully do your job, to serve them. Well.

[Lindsay Roman]

I feel like also with the influx, this is also not on our notes, but there's just so many things to say with the influx of social media. Pinterest, I mean, Pinterest has always been here for. Yeah, like for the past 10, 15 years. But like, I feel like maybe TikTok social media. I feel like vibes in 2025, I have never been more vibe. Vibey. Like, I feel like brides have so many inspo photos.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

I was literally talking with Rachel, the girl that I shot with yesterday, and she. We were talking about how, like, brides usually have so many inspo photos, which I love, but oftentimes I feel like they have all this, like, these goals for what they want visually. And nine times out of 10, all of those photos that they're giving us are staged. They're not documentary photos. Usually it's like a staged editorial shot of like all of the bridesmaids with glasses. And it's like, we can get that, but you have to realize that's gonna take at least 10 to 15 minutes realistically on a wedding day to get every single. Say there's seven bridesmaids. Every single bridesmaid has to get their drink in their hand. They have to get into this specific spot.

[Evie McLeod]

They all have to be dressed.

[Lindsay Roman]

They all have to be dressed. We now have to, like, do the flash photo with like, the editorial. Like, so it's like, that takes time.

[Evie McLeod]

You have to communicate with your clients, especially when they send like, which is why we're getting off the rails. We're.

[Lindsay Roman]

But in a good way.

[Evie McLeod]

Which is why Lindsay and I are such big advocates for an inspo board and a Pinterest board of like, what the bride is ultimately envisioning for her final photos for her day. Because if I notice photos like that throughout the entire day, like, oh, you really want a lot of bridal portraits before the ceremony, or you want like a ton of like candid hanging out cocktail hour with your family. But like, your timeline is not set up to allow for that whatsoever. Like, I will immediately start communication with my clients to let them know, hey, your timeline or the amount of coverage you've booked me for or whatever is com. Like misaligned with what you're ultimately wanting. And then I'll communicate them, like, with them through that and we'll find a compromise or, you know, whatever. But that's so important as a photographer, especially with timeline and the amount of time things. Things take. Because oftentimes clients have no idea.

[Lindsay Roman]

True. Which is our job to educate them and to help them. Yeah. Align what they want with what is realistically happening. I feel like this goes really well into the next kind of question, which is what are our non negotiables with the timeline and how do we communicate that to our Clients.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

So non negotiables. I feel like with every single client every timeline is different because every day is different. But these are the things that we always recommend to both of our clients of like if you want my work, this is kind of a non negotiable.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Which there's not a ton of non negotiables honestly.

[Evie McLeod]

And they're also I will say I feel like pretty reasonable.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, I would agree. So the first one is an absolute minimum of 30 minutes total for couple portraits on a wedding day. That could mean split up between first look time, like after the first look and then like sunset portraits. Like meaning that like if we get less than 30 minutes total of, of.

[Evie McLeod]

Like taking photos of just them.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, of just them photos. Usually you're not going to get a gallery. That's like the majority of my work. Like you might still get a little bit but you're not going to get a lot. And usually I feel like 30 minutes is our minimum. But we ideally would love like 45 to 60 minutes. And again that doesn't have to be in one go. It can be split up throughout the day.

[Evie McLeod]

One thing I will say, I don't think we wrote this on our notes but I would also consider this a non negotiable for me with timeline is if I think something is going to. Take me for example, if I've like really communicated with bride, I know her expectations, I know her desire. If I think, let's say wedding party photos are going to take me 15 minutes to knock out, I, I have a non negotiable within my own brain and communicating it with my clients to have at least a five minute buffer put on that so that I could say like hey, this one bridesmaid rain to the bathroom and we have to wait for her. That's not eating into my photo time. I'm like hey I, I can get this done in 15 minutes. Let's have it on the schedule that the next event doesn't start until 20 minutes. At least five minutes of a buffer. And when I communicate that's one of the tips for my like brides is like make sure you allot more time to every single event. But that's, I would say that's a non negotiable. If I really think I can do something in 10 minutes, I want at least 15 on the schedule just to make sure that things that are out of my control can go wrong or if we're running behind, I can still get what I need to get for my client.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. The other non negotiable that we both have in our contracts and then also just communicate with brides is that this is a pretty obvious one. The photo team needs to be able to eat a meal during dinner. I feel like I literally have a line in my contract that's like if I'm working beyond five hours I, I get like at least a 30 minute break with, with a meal. I feel like the intricacies.

[Evie McLeod]

Do you have it as a hot meal?

[Lindsay Roman]

I think so. I mean it's always hot because it's a reception.

[Evie McLeod]

What people will do like box like, like sack lunches I've had like where.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like the vendors don't eat what the guests are eating. But it's never been like an old sandwich.

[Evie McLeod]

No, I've heard that many times. It'll be like a lunch sandwich.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh okay. Tea guys just add the word hot in your contract before the word meal.

[Evie McLeod]

I mean not that like if it's food.

[Lindsay Roman]

I've been working since 8am and it is 6pm and you give me a freaking cold sandw. Get out of here. I want the hot steak, I want the potatoes, I want the rolls.

[Evie McLeod]

You're giving butter. You're giving like photographer zilla.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. No, but the one thing this is tea that we could get into such a sidebar with this. I don't put this in my contract per se. I do rec. I do have it in my wedding guide. Two different things with this and this doesn't always happen but I always kind of like to bring it up with my couple of. Especially with higher end weddings. Honestly, any wedding the venue has like a set, like a set room in the back for vendors to eat. Usually they, they like they sit the, they seat the vendors and feed the vendors. Like not in the, in the wedding space because it's not going to look nice. Right?

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And I get that especially for higher end weddings I get that there's an element that I've. If I have good rapport with the bride, I sometimes ask. I take this on a case by case basis. So this part isn't like a non negotiable.

[Evie McLeod]

I used to for lower budget weddings when I was charging a lot less. This was like almost a non negotiable obviously if.

[Lindsay Roman]

But this is like like an option.

[Evie McLeod]

I like told this to every blind. Whereas now blyde bride. Whereas now it's much more case by case and occasionally I'll mention it but it's.

[Lindsay Roman]

We used to recommend like, like lovingly not to be like high and mighty or like pompous about this. But if at all possible, if you could see us in like the actual tablescape area somewhere with like a, like.

[Evie McLeod]

A right next to it, like in the same room like back by the.

[Lindsay Roman]

Bar versus like have us eat at a table versus be in like a back vendor room. Only because usually the timeline doesn't always line up and sometimes things fall apart. And if you are the photographer that's eating in a back room. And again, this is usually with weddings without planners because a good planner will one keep the timeline on track, but then also communicate very well with the vendors. If something's happening, they'll make sure the photographer is out there or videographer. But again, if there's not a planner, I would almost recommend this more where you're in the space so that you can eat. But then at any point in time I can pick up my camera and be on in an instant. If I'm in the back barn or like a back tent behind the venue or whatever. It's like it's. You might be so far distanced away that you can't hear what's going on and therefore could miss moments. So that's, that's one caveat. The other caveat that I almost always, even with higher end weddings, I really try to make this a priority. Usually the vendors get fed last and that. That works for the band. Like I don't. That's great. That works for the dj. By all means, well, eat last.

[Evie McLeod]

No, the DJ is on the same timeline as we are.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's true, that's true. I actually don't know what vendor would make sense. Not a vendor that's been there since 8am but that's not even, that's not even why. It's because usually in a timeline reception, they'll feed the bride and groom first and then the bridal party family, all of that and then the rest of the guests. What happens when you save the vendors for last is that everyone's already ate by the time the vendors get fed. And then, okay, we've just got our meal as the photographers. What's happening next? The toasts. They need photos of the toasts. So that ends up being like the photographer and videographer often don't get to eat. So we. This sounds like a pompous thing, but usually we communicate this with the planner specifically and also the couple at the beginning. But if we can eat like right in there after the bridal party and family. Yeah, then we can at least eat. Because also the thing is like if we don't eat. Then what's happening? Everyone's standing in line or being served, which sometimes, like, the serving photos are really pretty. But other than that, no one, not a single soul on earth wants photos.

[Evie McLeod]

Of them shoving their face with food.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, no one wants photos of that. So it's like not only are we not being fed in that moment, but we're standing there not being able to really document anything.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, it also depends there. There'll be weddings where the sunset photos are being taken like the. The while dinner is happening. So the bride and groom will be served immediately. First they'll shovel down their food and then they're supposed to step out for 30 minutes while the guests are eating.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right. It's my opinion, though, that we should be eating when the bride and grooming in that scenario.

[Evie McLeod]

Exactly. 100. So I think it all comes down to I'm totally willing. I think we both are. We're both totally willing to be put in another space, especially for the higher end weddings. I totally understand the look of that. You want us, like, tucked away, whatever. Totally fine.

[Lindsay Roman]

But usually you need a good planner.

[Evie McLeod]

That's communicating a good planner. And I will also say, I always communicate this up front with both my clients. The planner. And then on the wedding day, I care how incredible this planner is and how much I love them. If I worked with them a ton before I Every single reception, I will go up to the planner and to the dj.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

And I will say, please make sure before the next event starts that I am in that room. Please come get me. I will, I will, you know, whatever. I will be in that room. And I also am very clear with the DJ as well.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Usually they're eating alongside me.

[Lindsay Roman]

Sometimes if the wedding doesn't have a planner, the DJ becomes the running the.

[Evie McLeod]

Events up for the reception. And that's how it's. It's happened before where I've been like, oh, my gosh, yay. A plate is set before me. And I suddenly hear, all right, ladies and gentlemen. And I'm like, frick. Running with my cameras, like, back to the reception room. So I will always communicate. Especially.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

If there's not a planner or even if there is. And I've communicated with her in advance, like, hey, I just need to make sure that I'm. I've eaten before the next event. Sorry. She's like, absolutely. Totally. You'll get your food. Don't worry about it. It'll just be a little later. I'm like, no worries. And then I'll communicate with her. Again, as I step back to the back room, I' like, please come get me to the dj. Like usually he's seated, seated with me. He or she is like eating with me. But I'll be like, do not leave this room. Do not leave this room without me. Like, I need to be by your side this time. The next thing's happening. So it all comes down to communication, being able to eat and if at all possible, like I've shot high end weddings where like it's a really fancy chef at a really fancy, you know, venue or whatever. And the chef has absolutely. Even though the planners advocated, the clients advocated. The chef refuses to serve the vendors until all the guests have been served. The, like all the courses.

[Lindsay Roman]

Boggles my mind.

[Evie McLeod]

I get it.

[Lindsay Roman]

It's hurting. The, the, it's, it's doing his job correctly.

[Evie McLeod]

Correct.

[Lindsay Roman]

But it's, it's ultimately hurting.

[Evie McLeod]

I guess it's not scenarios. I've literally been like, I don't care. Don't, don't serve me what you're serving the guests. Give me chicken tenders burger. I don't care. Just give me food that I can be able to do my job.

[Lindsay Roman]

Chef, you got here maybe at 4pm I've been here since 8am I don't know.

[Evie McLeod]

Maybe.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay, maybe not 4pm maybe, maybe he got there like one. Even if he got there at one, I bet he's eating his. So he's snacking.

[Evie McLeod]

Who knows? Anyways, I have no beef with the chef.

[Lindsay Roman]

Photographers. Pack, pack some snacks. Oh yeah, you run into this protein and nutrient dense.

[Evie McLeod]

But no, I will say I've heard in advance where the chefs have been like, we will not serve you until all of you know, the plates have been sat for the guests. And I've been like, okay, I understand. I've communicated very, very clearly what, why I need this, why I'm requesting this. And then what I will do is I will communicate to the bride and to the planner. Obviously they're aware of the scenario with the chef. I'll be like, so this means I will not be able to be back. I will shovel my food. I'm not, I'm not needing to take, you know, we're not being bougie 45 minutes to eat a plate of food. I can shovel it in, but I will not be ready if he doesn't observe me until X time. I will not be ready to shoot again until X time. So as long as that's it all comes down to communication. It really does. Anyways. Communicating.

[Lindsay Roman]

Hire a planner. Also.

[Evie McLeod]

If you are loving what you're hearing on today's episode, then we wanted to share something else you might love the Heart Shop. It's our digital resource online shop for creative entrepreneurs. The Heart Shop is your one stop shop for all of our online courses, luxury website templates, PDF guides, social media, graphic templates and illustrations.

[Lindsay Roman]

If you've been at your wit's end with your website design and you don't know where the heck to create a high quality pricing or welcome guide to give your clients an incredible brand first impression. Ooh, we got you. We created the Heart Shop to serve you with the best tools and resources you need to successfully run your business. Just head to theheartuniversity.comshop and start browsing the goods. That's theheartuniversity.comshop, and we'll see you there. Wanna know what both Evie and I use for our skincare? Our absolute favorite non toxic skincare products are without a doubt primly pure.

[Evie McLeod]

Yes. If you've been searching for a natural non toxic skin care company you can actually feel solid about using, knowing that the ingredients won't harm you and are derived from nature, then I'm not joking when I say that you need to try Primally Pure.

[Lindsay Roman]

Evie and I have been using Primally Pure for our skincare for a couple of years now and we are legit in love. Like we love that every product has minimal, safe, all natural ingredients that, I'm not joking, smell divine and make our skin look and feel healthy and beautiful.

[Evie McLeod]

Yes. Some of our favorite products that we've used from Primary, primarily pure are their charcoal deodorant, the cleansing oil, their lavender complexion mist and their clarity serum. Like every freaking product of theirs, we're not kidding. Knocks it out of the park as far as quality and making our skin feel incredible.

[Lindsay Roman]

For 10 off your order, you can use Code, Heart and Hustle. That's all caps, no spaces at checkout. Using the link in our show notes, we know that you're gonna love Primary Pure as much as we do. Again, that's Code, Heart and hustle for 10 off your order today. Yeah, like low key. I've also, I've been so tempted I might do this. It's, it's definitely a repelling move. But like on my contact form, I, I've actually, I think I've started doing this on my contact form. I put in a thing that says who is your planner?

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

So it's almost implied. Like you need to be having a planner if you're hiring me. But I've also seen other people that's like, we will not accept inquiries that do not have a planner.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, it's hard, especially when you get to a certain price point with photography. Like when you're charging like, like 10k starting.

[Lindsay Roman]

If you're charging 10k, the person has a planner. Like there's not.

[Evie McLeod]

No, there will still be exceptions where.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like they're putting most of their photography budget or their budget towards photography.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

I'm tempted to put that on, but.

[Evie McLeod]

That there's also an element.

[Lindsay Roman]

So much easier when there's a planner. Yeah, we love planners. Okay.

[Evie McLeod]

We do. Okay. One of the things on our notes too was like with the non negotiables, like in our contract, our wedding guide, like the timeline, things like eating or why we need a minimum of, you know, X amount of time for like portraits. We just communicate why with the clients. And then if a couple wants to do less photos, like even less than maybe our 30 minute minimum for whatever reason, either in advance of the day or on the day of if the, you know, they're just like, oh, we're good. We feel like we got enough. I think this is where as a photographer, again, communication becomes so crucial to be like totally fine. Like if you just got 10 minutes of photos and for whatever reason, like you're just feeling so happy and you're ready to go back inside and like be with your people or run a cocktail hour.

[Lindsay Roman]

I feel like some brides or grooms, whoever, they don't know that they're over it until on the day of when they're just tired and they're like, I just want to party with my friends.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. I don't want this to be. I'm tired of like smiling for the camera or whatever. I think it depends on also the style of photography that you shoot. But the one thing that I will say is communication is key here because I will tell, like if I've had that pop up occasionally I will like look my bride or groom dead in the eye and be like, totally. I completely understand. That's totally fine. We can absolutely be done here. I'm going to tell you right now, you probably got maybe 10 to 15 photos of about four poses. Is that going to be good for you? And sometimes them hearing that like straight.

[Lindsay Roman]

Up honesty, like imagine yourself looking at your gallery.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

In that moment.

[Evie McLeod]

Because I could also see like it's so often you're so unaware if you're not the photographer shooting, they hear a shutter clicking left and right and they're like, oh, my gosh, you just took 300 photos. That's all I need. It's like, no, no, I took maybe 10. Like, you're. You're gonna get maybe 10 out of that because you were blinking or I was getting my settings adjusted or, you know, I rapid fire.

[Lindsay Roman]

Or it didn't look good.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, I rapid fire.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, I wouldn't say that, but it.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, I'm gonna say that. But communicate that in that moment, being like. Or in advance. If a couple's like, hey, you know, 30 minutes for photos on our wedding date, that's plenty. 30 minutes is totally fine. This is, like, in. In the planning stage, I'll be like, okay. Pulling up their inspo board. So I noticed you have, like, all these inspo variety. You have some flash, direct editorial. You have some documentary, like, candid in the moment. You have three different styles of, like, lighting and, like, active versus, like, exposed.

[Lindsay Roman]

You know, you have, like, your girls with your parasols, but you also have the girls with, like, cocktails with flash. Those are two different setups at two different times of the day.

[Evie McLeod]

So you gotta notice the things that they're verbally saying versus the things. That's why a big part of why I love an inspo board, the things that they're envisioning, because sometimes they just don't recognize that there's a disconnect there.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, it's true. All right. The next kind of question that we presented was how much time do we recommend to our couples for each section of the day? Getting ready, first look, portrait, wedding party, family photos, et cetera? So kind of like in the email that we roughly send, around three months. Ish. This is usually what we recommend if they're asking or if they haven't created the timeline yet. If the couple wants getting ready photos, I recommend at least an hour and a half, including getting ready in detail shots. I can do it in less. But if they really want to prioritize, like, incredible detail shots, where they want, like, a whole setup with, like, the invitations, the shoes, the dress, the jewelry, like, all of that, they have the perfume, and they want, like, maybe like, some stuff of the dress hanging or they want just, like, his and her detail shots. Like, if they prioritize detail shots and getting ready, I always recommend an hour and a half. Yeah, Again, I can do it in less, but it just. And maybe this is just me. I feel like I get more creative the more I play with the details.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, totally.

[Lindsay Roman]

I even had a bride in the past where I had a wedding And I almost like storied me doing it just like as a part of documentation of me doing the.

[Evie McLeod]

Behind the scenes.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, behind the scenes. And I had a future bride see that on my stories and be like, I need, we need to add an hour to your coverage. Because I just looked at my timeline and I don't have, I have like 20 minutes for getting ready and details. And I'm realizing that's not near enough for you to do that for me. And I'm like, bingo. I'm glad you saw that by yourself.

[Evie McLeod]

And recognize that that's a very self aware bride.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, I know, right?

[Evie McLeod]

I love it. I will say with all of these timelines, it could possibly change with a second shooter. Oh yeah, there could be like if you're doing guys and girls details, you may be you, you may not need as much time as you would need if it's just you. If you have a second shooter or.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like the second shooter could get the details while you're getting, getting ready or vice versa. Yeah, like things can be happening at the same time.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, totally. One of the next things is first look for the bride and groom or like afternoon portraits before the ceremony is rec. We Recommend at least 30 minutes, ideally more if timeline allows. Like if it's possible to have, you know, an hour for a first look and frolicking around and having fun and hanging out together and taking photos. Awesome. Them. If not 30 minutes for them to have the first look. I will say with first looks, that's more time than realistically they need. Especially if they're not doing full vows at their first look.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes. Also if I almost would want more of the time for them in the evening than in the afternoon. Usually.

[Evie McLeod]

Yes. But first looks, at least from in my experience there's almost always something's almost always like stressfully running behind the, the mother wasn't dressed in time to get into the, the, the zipping the bride into her dress or you know, whatever. Or the hair and makeup was running behind or the bride like realized she had to pee after she got in her dress. Like things like that. It almost always takes a little bit more time to really get there, set up for a first look. So I always a lot for a little bit more time than what I actually think I need.

[Lindsay Roman]

True. So usually the first look then leads into wedding party photos which leads into family photos.

[Evie McLeod]

Not always like one of the starting events.

[Lindsay Roman]

Months. Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Other than getting ready, but getting ready.

[Lindsay Roman]

To be done at least for the bride and groom before.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, that starts. So I, I Usually allot for a little bit more time with the first look just because it can. Things can hiccup. The. The groom suddenly realizes he doesn't have his boutonniere on or you know, just different things. Things happen. Especially without a planner. Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

So family, family photos. What we always recommend to our couples is a minimum of 15 to 20 minutes. And that's, that's depending on the size of the family or the number of groupings. Usually 30ish minutes. If you have like a larger family or if like sorry. That the couple has a larger family or they have a lot of combinations, like they want extended family and like aunts and uncles and cousins and they have a bunch of combos. That's where I'm like, if it's really, really large, I'm like 30 to 45. But if it's like a typical wedding where it's like usually both sides, intimate family, 15 to 20 minutes is usually, in my opinion enough time.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Especially if you have a second shooter or like a wrangler, like a like best man or a maid of honor that can like know who the people are and like are like calling out on deck. Something like that.

[Evie McLeod]

And make sure, I mean this is just another wedding tip for photographers. But make sure you have a very detailed by first name shot list, wedding or family shot list in advance. And you have them in the order that makes the most sense. And sometimes my brides or clients will have me rearrange that and help them with that and because often times I.

[Lindsay Roman]

Feel like they don't, they don't list them in the most efficient. I literally just dealt with this yesterday that we just were going off of the list that the bride gave us and in the moment I was trying to like rearrange because sometimes it'll be like bride and groom and mom and dad or like bride's mom and dad. Okay, great.

[Evie McLeod]

And then it'll bring in like aunt and uncle and then it goes back to just the bride with the mom and dad or, or bride and mom.

[Lindsay Roman]

And dad and grandparents now. And it's like, well let. Why don't we do it so that we can do all of them with the bride's mom and dad first to an extent. So that they can go.

[Evie McLeod]

Yep.

[Lindsay Roman]

Or like the cousins can go like.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, as a photographer you can help rearrange that and make it makes the most sense. 100% wedding party. I would say 30 minutes typically for all combos. Again, this can shift if you have a second shooter and you guys divide with like Guys and girls at the same time. But what we do especially we do full wedding party and then bride with bridesmaids and groom with groomsmen. And I think we both still do this with indiv. We take an individual shot of every bridesmaid or groomsman with the bride or the groom.

[Lindsay Roman]

But usually if you have a second shooter, like you said, like the. The second shooter could get the groom with groomsmen while you're doing bride with bridesmaid.

[Evie McLeod]

And it cuts the time in half of that specific thing. So I would say 30 minutes typically for all.

[Lindsay Roman]

But also this is really helpful if your couple had inspo photos where there's like sunny photos, but there's also like flash.

[Evie McLeod]

Indoor flash. Yeah. You just have to. You have to read what your clients want. And then I would say, like, if you're wanting like more of that, let's do first look and then we'll do a bunch of wedding party portraits. And let's a lot at 45 minutes or 60 minutes ahead of the ceremony and then just cut it from after the ceremony.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

So communication with your brides. But I would say 30 minutes is like a typical standard. Like we're just be bopping through. It's. It's pretty straightforward. And we're knocking out wedding party.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. For sunset portraits. So this is like bride and groom at the evening time during the sunset. Like pulling them away from cocktail hour or reception. Depending on the sun. We recommend 30 minutes minimum. Again, I usually always recommend 30 minutes minimum. Minimum. No matter how much we had in the afternoon, if we had any. If there was a first look, if we can stretch it to like 45 to 60. I'm like thrilled. I'm thrilled beyond belief if I can have that much time. Usually you can't. Depending on the timeline.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, I would say 45 minutes. I often get 45 minutes for sunset.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes.

[Evie McLeod]

Which is beautiful. But it also does. That also accounts for transportation time, like you walking or golf carting or wherever to the location for sunset photos. So yeah, I would say that's not uncommon. And that's one thing to communicate to your clients too, is like, hey, just because we have 45 minutes in the cat in the timeline and the calendar does not mean that you're. We're shooting for 45 minutes. Like we have to get there and get back you back to the reception in that time. Yeah, yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

The last thing is for reception. I feel like we. We usually with our couples give reception recommendations. However, I think every reception is so different.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And like some people have dances. Some people have toasts, some people don't.

[Evie McLeod]

Some people have two toasts, some people have 10 toasts.

[Lindsay Roman]

I will say, I will say, yes, we have a, I feel like we have a breakdown of this at some point in time. Is this, when do I have the breakdown of this?

[Evie McLeod]

I don't think you do.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, well, let me just say it now.

[Evie McLeod]

But I know exactly what you're going to say because I was going to say it too.

[Lindsay Roman]

Tell the couple to tell their people that are doing toasts. Or, or maybe the planner. I'm like, who, who do you tell? If you give.

[Evie McLeod]

A good planner will already know this.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes, for sure. For sure. If you give the best man who thinks he's trying to be Chris Rock and like being funny a five minute time like slot for his speech, more often than not he's gonna go 20 minutes or, you know, whatever.

[Evie McLeod]

At least 10 to 15.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. And that's gonna push back inevitably the timeline.

[Evie McLeod]

Because you've allotted five minutes for this man, right? You've.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, you've allotted five minutes. So like always, bud, like tell your people that are doing toasts to tell them five minutes, but budget in 15.

[Evie McLeod]

Here's one thing that I do for my clients. I don't know if you do this, I, I tell my clients, I be like, hey, if you are wanting or hoping to get a four to five minute speech, tell your speech givers, toasts, whatever.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like two minutes.

[Evie McLeod]

Two minutes.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Minute and a half to two minutes. Because that is always accurately end up being five. Like they will, they will double.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yep.

[Evie McLeod]

Their whatever time allotment they're given because everything's rushed and totally get it. I absolutely get it. But do not tell them five minutes because they will take 10 to 15 every single time.

[Lindsay Roman]

The reason that this is even relevant to us as photographers, I have a very visible example. I like, I remember this actively. It's also still one of my favorite weddings I shot. But I remember if, if the toasts, because imagine every, say, say you've budgeted into the timeline five minutes for each person and each person does 15, each person, like, that's gonna at least get you behind 45 minutes, which is fine unless your coverage ends at like 9. And the toasts were happening at like 8:30 or 8 even, and they wanted you there until like dancing begins. Or, you know, like at least 30 minutes of dancing. What happens when the schedule gets so far behind that it's now 9:00 your coverage is supposed to end. But there's definitely things somebody's still giving a toast. Well, yeah, or, or there's just things that have yet to happen. But you know, your couple wanted photograph, like they wanted dancing photos or they wanted the cake cutting, but that hasn't happened yet because the, the freaking Chris Rock of the best man start started like becoming like a stand up comedian and now it's, it's like 45 minutes behind. What do you do in that scenario? Do you go up to your couple and be like, would you like me to leave? This was the time that coverage ends. Would you like me to continue to stay until at least these things happen?

[Evie McLeod]

I think we cover this later.

[Lindsay Roman]

I feel like, what, where is it? I feel, oh, it's at the end.

[Evie McLeod]

It's at the very, very end.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, let's just talk about it now.

[Evie McLeod]

Let's talk about it now. We're here.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Like what do you do? I feel like I asked you this when we were outlining, like what do you, in that scenario?

[Evie McLeod]

It depends very, very much on what's actually happening. For example, if I, if I, if I can tell I'm going to be stay there 15 to 20 minutes over my allotted time, I'm not even bothering that bride. She does not need to hear that. The clients do not need to hear that. If, however, the whole timeline for the whole day has gotten significantly behind and I am looking at that 30, 60 minimum starting of like additional time, 30, 60 minutes to at least cover what she. Cover the bare minimum. Yeah, like to even maybe adjust the timeline to cram a couple of final events together. Like if we're that far off base, which doesn't usually happen, but sometimes will. Even with higher end weddings, when there is like a weather delay or like anything like that, like a actual genuine emergency happened on the day of things will things go wrong? It's, it happens in that scenario. If there is a planner, I will always go talk to the planner first. Um, I will always put the potential stress on her. Especially because there are, there are times and scenarios where the client, she's already brought this up to the client either the day of or in the past being like, hey, you know, the beginning of the day, timeline's running late. Just in case I can't get this back on track because, because your mother just fell and, and hurt herself and you know, like emergencies, things happened, she's like, if I cannot get this back on track, what do you want me to do with these two vendors, your DJ and your photographer, Maybe that's already been communicated or planning Time, what's usually.

[Lindsay Roman]

Not communicated, sometimes it is.

[Evie McLeod]

I've had it where it is. I've gone up to the planner.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, that's a good planner.

[Evie McLeod]

Hey, yeah, a dang good planner. But I've gone up to the planner and been like, hey, I'm supposed to leave right now. And these three events haven't even happened, and dancing hasn't even started. Do you have any idea what the bride's wanting? She's like, yes, she said to extend you another hour. Okay.

[Lindsay Roman]

But had. Maybe you don't have a planner or I would go.

[Evie McLeod]

I would go to the bride and.

[Lindsay Roman]

What would you say?

[Evie McLeod]

I would just be like, hey, there's no pressure. Like, do not, please do not stress about this. But I am supposed to be leaving in about five minutes and we do still have, you know, these photos that you want. Do you have any preference? Would you rather just have a friend with, you know, their iPhone, like, take some photos? I am more than happy to stay and just invoice you for the additional time afterwards. You don't have to worry about it today. Don't stress about it. What would you prefer in this instance? I'm happy to stay, you know, to finish. Like, for example, if the cake cutting is about to happen or something, I'll be like, I'm happy to stay for the cake cutting. Do you want me to stay for all those dancing photos that we talked about or the. The flash post reception photos of you in the groom? Like, we can cram those together. I can probably stay an extra 30 minutes and cover it all. Do you want me to do that? Like, you know, and stuff like that. Granted.

[Lindsay Roman]

But it's like you're communicating and you're. I feel like. I feel like in the moment at a reception on the day of the. They're probably drunk maybe, but probably. Yeah, they've had at least some. Some liquor. I feel like it's in that moment, the way you phrase that is also really good of like. And I can invoice you later. It's very clear you're setting a boundary of, like, I will charge for this time if it's beyond this point.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, I feel like you're not, like.

[Lindsay Roman]

So I'll be like a hundred dollars an hour if you want me to extend. Would you, like, like, it's. You're. You're handling the monetary aspect of it gracefully.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Because I want to be clear that I'm not just verbally telling them, like, do you want me to stay longer? Duh, of course they do.

[Lindsay Roman]

But it's like you're clear of setting a boundary.

[Evie McLeod]

I will be invoicing you for. And sometimes I'll be like, hey, I'm gonna stay through the cake cutting. I won't invoice you for that. That's, you know, an extra 10 minutes. It's not a big deal. But if you want me to stay beyond that, that, like, we can. I can absolutely do that. I can work with the planner. We can combine these two, you know, and I'll, like, give them options to basically be like, I am here. I'm happy to help. We can still get you every single photo you want from the day of, but I will be invoicing you for the that additional time. That's what I do, at least.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yep.

[Evie McLeod]

And it happens. Like, it happens. Totally. And every photographer is different. I've worked and am good friends with some amazing photographers who. Stuff like that will happen. And they've stayed like an hour plus late at a wedding, and they will not invoice the client for that.

[Lindsay Roman]

Feel like it depends on the relationship with the couple and how you're feeling.

[Evie McLeod]

I will also say, I wonder if it depends. Yeah. If. If I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is the dream wedding, I would be crying. If I had to walk out of here without being like, I want and.

[Lindsay Roman]

They'Re willing to give it to me.

[Evie McLeod]

Then I would, you know, maybe that's a scenario where you're like, I'm just not going to say anything. I'm going to stay. Maybe they'll give me a tip at the end of the day. You know, whatever. Who knows? Maybe you just decide to suck it up. But I'm. I'm more of a person who. I'm not willing or I'm not. I'm not afraid. I'm very willing to at least communicate with my couple. Like, I'm just so open and usually have a great relationship with my clients where, like, I'm willing to be like, hey, I'm gonna be here at least another hour if you want. Do you want. Do you want that to happen? Because I'll invoice you for it. And I sometimes in that moment too, sometimes I'll be like, this was not your fault. This was a weather delight. This was. Whatever. I'll give you a discounted, like, hourly rate and I'll stay for the hour. Like, this was not your fault. I totally understand. Would you like that?

[Lindsay Roman]

I feel like usually though, a good. A good planner, even if the wedding day falls off the rails, timeline wise, usually I feel like by the end of the night, it somehow writes itself. Usually. Because you can kind of speed things up during dinner. I think the big thing is you.

[Evie McLeod]

Can start stacking things. Like the speeches start a lot sooner during dinner.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes, you could. Yeah, exactly.

[Evie McLeod]

Cut the bouquet toss and the garter toss. Yeah. Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

I feel so. I feel like usually this is a rare instance where you have to have even this conversation.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, I feel like the, the main areas where I've seen it the most is weather that was out of control. Like, like extreme weather, like a tornado came through or something like that even.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's rare.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, but it's happened.

[Lindsay Roman]

See, I feel like it's more likely for me that the groomsman thinks he's Chris Rock.

[Evie McLeod]

That's. That's true. Um, one thing I.

[Lindsay Roman]

It's always the father of the bride. Bride. Talk to me about the father of the brides.

[Evie McLeod]

Ironically, my dad gave literally a 30 second speech.

[Lindsay Roman]

I think it depends on personality. It depends. Okay, maybe sometimes it's the mother. It's the people that, like, this is their baby and like, they just want to like, tell their entire freaking life story of how they've been a great parent to this little baby girl. Okay.

[Evie McLeod]

I've actually heard some wonderful. You're sounding very jaded on parent speech.

[Lindsay Roman]

I don't know.

[Evie McLeod]

I've heard some wonderful parents.

[Lindsay Roman]

No, they're so. They're usually beautiful. And even if they're long, they're beautiful. It's just like, usually like that it takes more time because. Because they're like dredging up. They're like, this is my one chance, my single daughter of. Or like my only daughter. I'm bestowing her away to a man and I'm just gonna take this opportunity to 20 minutes. Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Anyways, one thing I wanted to say around like the timeline of things because we kind of jumped into, like, what do we do when the timeline goes off the rail? I want to touch on this really quick. Communicating with your clients ahead, ahead of time, of the amount of hours of coverage and what that's going to get them. So, for example, like, I give a synopsis to every single one of my clients. I don't offer six hours anymore, but I used to very much. And I would communicate like, here's what six hours will get you. Like, it'll get you your, you know, getting into your dress ceremony and like your main, like family photos, wedding party and speeches. You may or may not be able to get one or two events of the reception, for example, cake cutting or, you know, Obviously first dances. Like that's probably like you might be able to get all that. And that's about all six hours we'll cover eight hours is going to give you a little bit more of reception and a little bit more of getting ready and or portraits in the middle. 10 hours is going to start covering your full day. That's where you're getting, you know, those detail shots, the getting ready shots, even like editorial portraiture in there. Good amount of portraits of you guys and you're covering a majority of your reception. So I personally, I will give that overview to my clients when we start timeline talk or when they're starting to even book. Like if people are like, I'm not sure which package I communicate that on like a consult call. When they're like, I think I'm winning this and this and this and this, I'll be like, you want to start minimum eight or nine hours.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. Because it's helpful. They don't know what eight hours means or what nine hours means.

[Evie McLeod]

Six hours of photos. Holy cow, that's so many photos. Like they just don't understand how wedding timelines work. So can we communicating that. And then I. What I will also do oftentimes if a client's like unsure, I will send them galleries of. Well, I used to. I don't send them six hours because I don't offer six hour anymore. But I will send them galleries reflecting the amount of time that they're torn between. So I'll be like, here is a gallery with a second shooter of 10 hours. Here is a gallery, you know, with no second shooter, which is often for.

[Lindsay Roman]

Them to I think visually see.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And obviously every timeline is different.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

But like I think whether you're or both sending galleries and explaining what that hourly coverage and add on situation if there was a second shooter is.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And then also verbally like explaining what you get with each thing.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

The other thing that I also like to say is if. If they're wanting like rough full coverage meaning like they want.

[Evie McLeod]

They want a full overview storytelling of like most of the day.

[Lindsay Roman]

Most of the day. But they're like not willing to go like balls to the wall of like I want 10 to 12 hours. What I usually say is I don't need to show up when the hair and makeup artist shows up. Like I can show up about an hour and a half to two hours before first look. If you're really wanting detail. Like, if you wanting like a good storytelling moment of getting ready in details ceremony.

[Evie McLeod]

If that's Their big event.

[Lindsay Roman]

You mean like if they're not having a first look? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Although there's, there's an element of like.

[Evie McLeod]

Needing to be there.

[Lindsay Roman]

I would say if there's not a first look and it's just a ceremony, I would almost want to be there like two to two and a half because I want to get ceremony details. I want to get like usually I feel like there's a first look with most of my couples, but so like I say roughly an hour and a half to two hours. Two hours to two and a half to be safe again before like the main events are happening. If you're wanting getting ready and then it depends on I, I, I cater this to each couple. Like some people really want like a lot of party and dance photos and.

[Evie McLeod]

They'Re wanting, they're renting a vintage car, they're doing a big send off. They're right.

[Lindsay Roman]

But if they're not doing any of those things and they just want like a good chunk of dancing photos but not like anything crazy and I don't, they don't want me to stay there till the very end. I usually say I can get enough dancing photos in about 20 to 30 minutes before it is repetitive and you probably don't need me there. Again to an extent. If they're wanting like a lot of flash photos and vibey photos of like them with alcohol or like cups and stuff like then.

[Evie McLeod]

Or they have tons of photos on their inspo board of like yeah, like editor, more editorial. Like it's like you're posing for the camera or Right. Like they have photos of people being like lifted up in the air or things like that. I'm like that stuff just happens throughout the reception. You're, I'm gonna want to be there for a majority of the reception or if they have like send off photos, I'm like, hi. So currently I'm supposed to be leaving the reception after 15 minutes of dancing. Your send off is not happening. Like I will not be documenting that.

[Lindsay Roman]

So sometimes, especially if you're dealing with a little bit more of a budget bride or like a, a couple that's on the cheaper end. Yeah, something sometimes in the past I've recommended if they want the send off photos but they don't want to pay coverage. Time to have me stay till 10 or 11. I'll say hey, grab like a couple of your wedding party and we'll like do like a mini sparkler exit or it doesn't have any sparkler. It's gonna be whatever. Like do a mini send off during dancing so I can go. And then you can obviously do your real thing. That's again, that's. Usually you don't have to deal with that if it's a little bit more of a higher end wedding.

[Evie McLeod]

I've also heard planners hate the fake send offs.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, I know, I don't love it. But I'm also like, if you don't want to pay me to be there till the end, but you want that them, I'll do it. So that's what I recommend. Usually I feel like roughly an hour and a half before first look to like 30 minutes of dancing photos usually gets you like an 8 hour coverage depending on the timeline. But that's like a rough, rough, rough.

[Evie McLeod]

But you're educating your client in advance so that they're not blindsided and shocked by things on the day of.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

And then when things go wrong, let's just touch on this really quick. Go with the flow. Seriously, just go with the flow. As a photographer, especially if there's a planner there's there like work closely with the planner. If there's not a planner there, try to, if you can, try to help them get back on track. It's usually like falls to the photographer in many ways because we're kind of the people dictating the timeline at that point. Communicate with a couple a ton. Like, explain exactly what they will or will not get if X does not happen. Or you know, if they're wanting to skip an event or whatever. Like, just explain. Like, I've had couples who've sent me a family shot list and then all of a sudden are like, timeline's running late, Grandma's not here. Skip it. And I will literally look my clients dead in the eye and be like, okay, I can send my second shooter to go get grandma. We can put her at the end of the photo. I can still get a photo with her. It'll take us a couple more minutes. But do you really truly not care? Do you want to cut that photo with her entirely? And sometimes the count will be like, you're right. Okay, we can do it. A couple more minutes is fine.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, because what they want in the moment might be different than what they have regrets about in. In the future.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like when they're looking at their gallery and they're like, oh, wow, I didn't get a single photo with grandma.

[Evie McLeod]

And it just comes down just communicating with them. That's the biggest thing. And then reassure your client to be present. Like Take this in. Don't rush. Be present, like, cover. Be like, I've got you. I'll take care of this. The planner will also, if they're dang good planner, they'll be doing the exact same thing and then just talk to the planner. I think that's the biggest thing in the days when I've been concerned, like, oh my gosh, we're currently running X amount of time behind. I know the planner knows that. I'm not going to tell her that.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right.

[Evie McLeod]

But I am going up to be like, what can I do to help? How can I like, what's, what's going on? Is there anything like that I can be doing? Do you, you know, do we need to readjust anything on the timeline that affects me? I'm happy to do that. Like that. Just communicating with your planning team and your vendor team is huge. But overall, just going with the flow.

[Lindsay Roman]

I think the last thing I'll say is with this in mind, as a photographer, going into the consult call, when, when you're having a client, I feel like this happens so much where the client might not want to spend as much money to have more coverage. Like they're trying to get you for as little as possible. But I, I say, what do you want? Like what. And we've had past episodes on like, specific, like what to do in a client consultation. But just this note, especially when it is regarding timeline, if you're hearing that they want more full coverage, like they really want those getting ready shots, they really want party shots and they want their day documented. But they also, you're hearing them say, maybe on the consult call, like, I just want to live the moment and I want to be present with my family. Something that I will say is I'm here. Like, I'll reiterate that to them of I'm hearing you say X, I want you to know, sometimes on lower coverage, like so, 6, 7, 8, sometimes even pieces of coverage, the timeline can get so shoved together because you're purely trying to fit things into a specific timeline because you're not wanting to spend more money, which I totally get.

[Evie McLeod]

You're trying to fit all of the events with when the photographer will be there. You're trying to crank and what that.

[Lindsay Roman]

And I'll say this to my couples, what that? Or like even potential couples, what that ultimately ends up happening is living your wedding day, going from thing to thing to thing to thing. And you don't have moments to breathe because you're trying to shove it all into a specific time. That's going to result in your wedding day feeling rushed and not having those slow moments to breathe where you can feel present. So just something to consider before you're like, and we can book eight hours now just so you can secure me for your date. But as we go on and plan, you're always welcome to add on more hours. If you feel like that as the.

[Evie McLeod]

Timeline starts coming together and you, like, want to add on more time, we can absolutely do that later.

[Lindsay Roman]

So that's something to communicate with your couples, I think beforehand. Because I think also having them hear that and realize, oh, if I'm trying to shove all these things I want into six hours, that's gonna be a hectic day. That's not going to feel.

[Evie McLeod]

Or I'm gonna miss. I'm gonna miss coverage on things.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Which maybe they're fine with, but they need to know that upfront.

[Lindsay Roman]

A hundred.

[Evie McLeod]

So those are our thoughts on wedding timelines as a wedding photographer and hopefully that was helpful. Either confirmed that you're doing things really well or gave you some insight on things you haven't even thought about before. Um, but that's what we've learned and done over the last 10 to 12 years of full time wedding photography. And it is such a joy to help facilitate somebody's biggest day and dream day. And it's also a lot of responsibility. So hopefully this gave you some insight and something to chew on. If you love this episode, please share it with the other photographer friends. We would love, love to get in their earbuds as well and just share thoughts and growth and insight and all the things that we give on this podcast. And if you haven't let a five star review yet, please do. It helps us so much on the show and it's just, it's a huge blessing to us and helps us continue to serve you well with free education, incredible guests and all the things. And I think that's all. So we love you.

[Lindsay Roman]

We will see you on the next episode.

[Evie McLeod]

Bye.