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The Heart & Hustle Podcast
431: Hustle vs Holiness and How to Redefine Productivity in Light of the Gospel with Phylicia Masonheimer
01:07:49
On this week’s episode of the Heart and Hustle Podcast we are sitting down with Phylicia Masonheimer. Phylicia is an incredible author, speaker, and founder of “Every Woman a Theologian”. We dive into the concept of “Hustle vs...
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- [00:00]
Lindsay Roman
You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are your hosts, Evvi McLeod and Lindsay Roman. Welcome back to the show, my friend. Today we had the honor and incredible privilege of talking to Felicia Masonheimer, who I cannot believe we haven't had on the show until now.
- [00:14]
Evvi McLeod
Yeah, it's kind of crazy.
- [00:14]
Lindsay Roman
It's absolutely insane.
- [00:15]
Felicia Masonheimer
Long overdue.
- [00:16]
Lindsay Roman
We followed each other for years and that she is the perfect fit for the show. And so we finally made it happen. Now, if you haven't heard of Felicia, I gotta break it down for you because she's incredible. Felicia Meisenheimer is an author, speaker, and founder of Every Woman, a theologian. And she is like the most just straightforward, biblical, like, girl in your. In your ear that, like, if you don't follow her on Instagram, go do that first of all. But this show today, with her, she is just like the most. She's gonna lovingly convict you and bring you closer to the gospel, but in a way that you need to hear and in a way that isn't like a hard slap, but like a gentle love touch. Tap slap.
- [00:55]
Evvi McLeod
Yep. Love tap, slap.
- [00:56]
Lindsay Roman
Love tap slap.
- [00:58]
Evvi McLeod
Today we got to chat with Felicia, all about hustle versus Holiness. Kind of redefining productivity in the light of the gospel and our worth and identity and avoiding burnout and, you know, anything to do with just unsustainable business practices by kind of grounding what we're doing in our identity in who God says we are and how to really find that worth outside of our work. And it is a very, very convicting, powerful. Must listen. Must repeat episod episode, especially if you're a believer. This one is just so powerful. I would say, even if you're not, you're probably going to get so much out of this, no matter what your beliefs are, because there is just so much truth to the principles of how to approach work in a sustainable way. And you know where to notice red flags in your life in your work ethics or not Work ethics, I guess, workflows that. May I help you identify when you're potentially walking down the path of potential burnout or, you know, putting too much emphasis on our work, as if that defines who we are. It is truly one of the most powerful convicting episodes we've ever had on this topic. So I cannot emphasize this enough. Listen, repeat. Take notes. Repeat, listen again and I will stop talking so we can get to Fi's incredible wisdom.
- [02:31]
Lindsay Roman
I've got two words for you that will seriously uplevel your business. You ready for it?
- [02:35]
Evvi McLeod
Niche down we're sure you've heard it a million times. Ha. Like everyone and their mom tells you to niche down, but maybe you're still struggling to see the benefits. Well, we're here to tell you from experience, it will in fact help you sell and scale in the long run. And once we actually did niche down ourselves, it worked. Our businesses soared.
- [02:54]
Lindsay Roman
Which is why we want to give you an explanation and then teach you step by step exactly how to niche down. You excited? Because we know that we are go to theheartuniversity.com niche to begin the process of honing in on your area of expertise.
- [03:17]
Felicia Masonheimer
Hey. Hey.
- [03:17]
Lindsay Roman
I'm Lindsey Roman.
- [03:19]
Evvi McLeod
And I'm Evie McLeod. And we are family and legacy focused serial entrepreneurs and the founders of the Heart University, a business education company with a mission to help you thrive in your business and life.
- [03:30]
Lindsay Roman
Welcome to our entrepreneur cocktail hour where business and marketing strategies meet faith, real talk and raw in life changing conversations.
- [03:36]
Evvi McLeod
At the end of the day, we are all in this together, figuring out how to navigate the ups and downs, the messy and the beautiful and everything in between. This is a community where you can come as you are, get inspired and walk away equipped to build a legacy filled life.
- [03:50]
Lindsay Roman
You're listening to the Heart and Hustle Podcast. Felicia, welcome to the Heart Hustle podcast. We are so excited to have you on. We were literally just saying before we recorded that we can't believe it's been this long to get you on the show and this is long overdue. I mean, yeah, it's very long overdue. So welcome. We're so excited to have you.
- [04:14]
Felicia Masonheimer
Thank you for having me. I feel like we have followed each other for so many years that I don't know, I feel like I know you guys personally. Even though we've never met in person.
- [04:24]
Evvi McLeod
This is even. I feel like our first time. We've at least you and I five, like voice messaged a ton back and forth over the years, but this is, I think our first time, like virtually face to face. Virtually actually like hanging out and I'm like, this is crazy. It's been years. So we're excited to have.
- [04:39]
Lindsay Roman
I know this is going to be the greatest girl chat ever. We're so excited. You're a perfect fit for the show. I can't wait to get into it.
- [04:48]
Felicia Masonheimer
We're so excited.
- [04:49]
Evvi McLeod
First though, for anyone who maybe doesn't already feel like their best friend friends with you like we do, are you willing to share just a little bit of kind of your backstory who you are and I Guess what you love.
- [05:02]
Felicia Masonheimer
Yeah, for sure. So I am the first. I'm a wife and mom. I've been married for 11 years to my husband Josh. I have three children Earthside and I have two in heaven. And we, I am the CEO of every woman a theologian. So it's a ministry, a self supporting ministry. We use business to support our ministry rather than fundraising. So we're not a non profit that I built over the years, starting out as just a solo writer and blogger to now we're a team of 12 and we get to produce Bible studies books, hospitality line, children's line of materials to help Christians know what they believe, why they believe it and how to communicate it graciously to the world. So it's been, you know, a long journey but it's been so exciting to see where God has taken us. And I've learned a lot along the way, a lot about, a lot about failure. That's one thing relatable and also about, you know, how to balance all of the things that, that are on my plate and how to lead a team and how to manage but also be a creative and things like that. So it's been a wild ride, but I'm excited to be here.
- [06:22]
Lindsay Roman
Amazing. Well, that goes perfectly into the today's conversation which is going to be mostly surrounded like I feel like our culture's desire or maybe need I guess you could say of to like hustle or be uber productive and how that kind of lines up with the gospel. And so we're really excited. Before we dive into that, I would love to know almost like the backstory, a little bit of like what caused you to want to start. Every woman theologian.
- [06:52]
Felicia Masonheimer
Yeah. So I'll summarize the first, the first half because it could be a really long story like for all of us, I'm sure. I started writing and blogging when I was 15 years old. So that was at the height of like the teenage blogger world, which I think I'm possibly older than you both. So it was in the stone age and we were, you know, linking out to people and doing these like link parties and there was no social media and it was all based on just like networking connections and links to other websites. So I started then and then I did that for seven years until I was in college and in my 20s, my early 20s, 20s, I was mainly blogging about purity, culture and sexuality and talking to girls who struggled with things like sexual boundaries, sexual addiction, pornography. Because at that point nobody was talking to girls about that stuff. It was basically only to men. So I was kind of sharing my own testimony, talking about those things. But I was also in school to study religion, and I. I thought, you know, before we can talk about any of these things, we kind of have to back up and even ask, like, why should Christians even listen to what the Bible says about sexuality? Or, like, why does the Bible even get to tell me what to do? Why does God even care? And so there were these underlying theological questions that were behind the things I was writing about, that I then started writing about those. And because I had a degree in religion, I was able to kind of share what I learned in college with people who wouldn't go to seminary, you know, or couldn't afford to go and get a religion degree. And so I just continued to share, and doors kept opening. I started writing for other websites. And then eventually, when I got married, had several children, I stopped working outside the home because I had a different career. I was working in higher education, and I had been blogging all this time. I decided to compile my blog posts into a. An ebook on sexuality because that was what I had originally written so much about at that time. My husband lost his job. I was pregnant with our second child, and I thought, well, he's looking for a job. We need money really bad, so why don't I just compile this ebook and sell it for, like, $10 and see what will happen? And through that, we were provided for for three months. And I thought, wow, like, I guess we could do this with more ebooks and, you know, still keep them affordable for our customers, but, like, we could just keep moving that direction. And so that was kind of the Advent. We began with ebooks. That was our very first resource that we started with very low overhead and then eventually moved on to print products and physical products like our hospitality line and. And then began hiring more people. And my husband came home full time with me in 2020.
- [09:44]
Evvi McLeod
Oh, I love it. You are. You are a woman of many talents. I can. You have, like, so many things. You're like, I have all this theology and, like, belief and apologetics. Let's talk about all of this. And then you're also like a businesswoman running a company and a mom and a white. Then homeschooling. Right.
- [10:03]
Felicia Masonheimer
Like you're doing I am home. You could just say, I'm crazy.
- [10:08]
Evvi McLeod
That.
- [10:08]
Lindsay Roman
That.
- [10:08]
Felicia Masonheimer
That would also.
- [10:09]
Lindsay Roman
It's a shorter, shorter version of saying it.
- [10:12]
Evvi McLeod
I love it. Well, I. Today, I think we kind of really. This is perfect. And you're the perfect person to talk about it because we really wanted to talk today about, I guess, productivity and kind of how we as believers should be defining productivity and viewing productivity, especially in a world as entrepreneurs where productivity is such a big conversation and hustle and grind and more and more girl bossing, girl bossing, mom bossing. We did talk about that right before we pressed record and Lindsey was like, stop talking, Save it for the episode. So I guess like, what are your thoughts initially when we say, you know, what would you, what should the listener hear from you today? Or what would you like to say to them? In this topic of productivity as a believer, what are your thoughts?
- [11:05]
Felicia Masonheimer
Yeah, there's a lot we could talk about there, right? I think what, what we've realized from what we're seeing in our culture, which is currently in a pendulum swing away from this hustle, hustle culture that really dominated from, I would estimate probably from about 2008, 2010 to 2020. I think 2020 was like the death now to it all and like a forced stop for a lot of people. But this was the era of like girl, wash your face, you know, the self help empire. And what it told us was the more you work, the more you post, the more you program, the more perfect you are, the better results you'll get. And we saw all of these teachings, you know, with the, I won't name names, but like the biggest, like productivity, self help, social media, managing bloggers, telling us what we needed to do in order to succeed. And I followed those people, I read their stuff, I took some of their courses. And a of it was, well, she who works the hardest comes out on top. And I wasn't really interested in coming out on top. I really have always held it very loosely. I believe that God is the one who brings success, but especially in ministry, because that's what I'm doing. But I also was kind of like, I physically can't do this. Like I'm, I am tired. I tried it, I'm tired. And it's because we, we literally physically can't do it. Like the reason you physically can't do it is because you can't do it. That's you're tired. And so I think we have that wake up call. 2020 was like a forced pause for a lot of people. And it really revealed that for many of us, we, this is, I think at the crux of it, we only value, in America at least we only value work that's paid. So if there's no roi, then it's not worth doing. And so what this actually has led to, for women in particular, is There is no ROI on sweeping your floo. There is no ROI on, like, cooking dinner. There is no ROI onS, like, a physical, tangible on, like, housework, right? So we spend all of our time focused on how do I get the best return on all this work that I need to do. Meanwhile, these things that don't produce income, those don't have value according to culture. So now I'm, like, stressed out of my mind because I don't get to those things. Because those things aren't as important, but I know they need to be done. And yet over here, I'm working my butt off for a return on my investment of time and maybe trends change, and now I'm not getting the same return that I should have for the work that I did. And I think that wake up call is what a lot of us faced at some point. And it's a reflection of a very secular view of work versus God's view of work, which is you work, you trust me with the growth, and then you rest, which is an active statement of trust in his version of productivity. So there's a lot more I could say, but that's, I think, the starting place.
- [14:31]
Lindsay Roman
Oh, my gosh. There's like a million little rabbit holes that we could go down based on what you just said. I'm like, okay, wow. No, hold on. Nope, we gotta rein my brain in. Okay, Fi, I think I wanna take the conversation first. Cause I have again, a million, a million things that I could say. I think I would love you to touch on maybe first. Kind of how we balance in this day and age. And especially like, the post Covid, post girl bossing world where we've all kind of like, settled back into, like. Okay, wait, slow down. Rest. Like, we. We as a culture have valued that a little bit more than in the past, like you said. How do you, though, come to kind of like, the balance between personal ambition that I think, especially as women we have, especially creative women that want to start businesses and we want to do we have things and talents and skills and even desires that God has put on our heart. How do you balance that with obedience to the Lord, Especially in specific seasons when those things might not coincide, or you might trick yourself into thinking they coincide, but then God keeps reminding you, hey, I'm knocking on your head. This is not coinciding.
- [15:36]
Evvi McLeod
This feels like a personal story from Lindsay coming after.
- [15:41]
Lindsay Roman
Just curious on your thoughts.
- [15:45]
Felicia Masonheimer
Asking for a friend. Okay, so I think a big thing, whether you're a Mom or not, but especially if you're a mom. I think this is a struggle and I'll get into why, but I think the big discerning question to ask is, am I called to this or am I just discontent with my current life?
- [16:13]
Lindsay Roman
You both just, like, had an audible.
- [16:17]
Felicia Masonheimer
That was good.
- [16:19]
Evvi McLeod
Okay, repeat that.
- [16:21]
Felicia Masonheimer
Okay, I'll get into what I mean by this, but am I called to this or am I just discontent and unhappy with my current life? And I'll set up a scenario for you. Say your husband is working really long hours. Say you do have some young children. And you're like, if I have to talk in toddler language for another hour past 7pm, I'm going to lose my mind. I want adult conversation. I want to feel like what I do matters. And because we're so easily bought into the lie that only income producing work has value, we feel like the solution is I either work more or start working or whatever it is. Now, most of your audience is probably already working or already owns their own business, I'm guessing. So it may be that it's like, well, if I only had more time to work, then I would feel better or more satisfied. And this can happen even if you don't have kids. It could just be a totally different scenario where you're, you know, still feeling discontent, like things aren't moving fast enough, or you have like a savings goal and you're like, if I could just have, you know, more, more resources than I would be happier. So we just have to take a moment and step back and see. Do the heart check with the Lord of like, is this discontentment with where you have me or is this where you're calling me? And I think the way that you'll know the difference is, number one time, this is not a quick answer. This is like, you have to pray. You have to seek his face and let him lead you. But secondly, he will always lead you with peace. He will not lead you with urgency. If you have this like, abject urgency, like anxiety, I have to do this now. That is my red flag. That's like, why are you trusting him to provide for you? Or are you thinking you have to force this? So that's what I use as my personal red flag, is if I have that sense of urgency, that's my first sign. You need to pray more about this. And this could be, you know, now at my stage, I am, you know, leading a company. I'm working, you know, 30 hours a week. I'm also mothering my children and homeschooling them. So for me, that question is more often not in, do I start the business? But we didn't make enough revenue last month, so I need to, like, beat the pavement to, like, make sure that we do this month. And that's my red flag at the season I'm in. But for other people, it could be way back at the beginning. Right. Like, I need to pay for this really expensive training because that's going to get me to the next. The next step in my career or my business. But it's going to put us in a hole as a family. Maybe you need to step back and say, God, I'm trusting you to supply the resources when the time is right. So just like, setting that in his hands instead of really pushing, Pushing for what you think God wants instead of just letting him lead it.
- [19:18]
Evvi McLeod
That's so good.
- [19:19]
Lindsay Roman
It's like, are you the provider or is he.
- [19:23]
Evvi McLeod
Yeah, right.
- [19:24]
Felicia Masonheimer
Yeah, exactly.
- [19:26]
Evvi McLeod
In your experience, like, within this conversation, do you feel like you have found in your own journey that there's a difference between. I mean, I feel like you kind of may have already answered this, but a difference between our innate or not innate, but our initial reaction to success and our understanding of what success means versus when you do kind of walk very in line with the Lord's calling on your life and his timing with things that that version of success may look different. Like, is that. What are your thoughts, I guess, on the definition of success as a believer?
- [20:07]
Felicia Masonheimer
Yeah, I think that success, number one, I think success actually does look different person to person, because when you're walking with the Lord, he's going to customize that to your season and to you. So the world, remember, they always define success as bigger, better, more visible, more revenue. Like, that's always going to be how they define success. But in Christianity, yeah, it might be more people reached or, you know, more weddings photographed, or maybe it's less weddings photographed with the exact client you were supposed to work with, you know, or for me, we talk about this a lot in our team meetings. We're reaching thousands of people around the world. But if we don't care for the single one woman in our public email inbox who reached out with a question, then what we're doing is we're actually prioritizing quantity over quality. So success in our ministry is about reaching the 1. And when we effectively reach the 1, we will reach the thousands. So really, I think that it is upside down from the culture, because the most successful secular businesses that we see are the ones that people Say they have excellent customer service. Why? Because they care about the individual customer. Those are the ones that succeed. The ones that have bad customer service are the ones that are like scattershot. Right? Like, let's reach the most that we can or only prioritize the privileged. This was actually an interesting shift I saw. I was reading an article about what happened with Alo. Do you remember Elo? I think it's Alo. Yoga was. They were like the brand for influencers years ago and they ended up prioritizing only influencer marketing. Like really wealthy, really visible influencers to the point they actually lost touch with their customer base and they ended up now their like inferior to most of the other fitness brands. What they did was they prioritized money, visibility, wealth, the big market, fame over the one. So really biblical marketing and biblical business is what the secular world is modeling itself after when it succeeds.
- [22:38]
Lindsay Roman
Almost as if like the Bible makes sense in every capacity.
- [22:44]
Evvi McLeod
God is the creator of all business and marketing.
- [22:50]
Felicia Masonheimer
Yes, exactly. And like he has a whole book of proverbs about like business principles that way.
- [22:55]
Lindsay Roman
Literally, almost. Oh, that's so good. Do you have a thought? The irony is that our show is called the Heart and Hustle and we named it that because I think in business and in life there are moments of. I. I mean, Hustle is obviously. We kiss the alliteration, you know, Ha ha. You get it. Okay, that's. But like when we say Hustle in, In the sense of like the title, I think we mean like hard work.
- [23:23]
Felicia Masonheimer
Hard work.
- [23:23]
Lindsay Roman
Right. I guess.
- [23:24]
Felicia Masonheimer
Yeah. No, that's how I take it.
- [23:26]
Lindsay Roman
Hard work didn't ring the same, but. But like the heart has to be present. Right. But I. Sorry, that was a way, roundabout way to ask about hustle culture.
- [23:38]
Evvi McLeod
You wanted to like almost defend ourselves.
- [23:40]
Felicia Masonheimer
Before you asked the question.
- [23:42]
Lindsay Roman
I was just making it easier.
- [23:46]
Felicia Masonheimer
I love the name of your show, for the record. And I think that it works because. Because, yeah, you're talking about the idea of the hustle with the heart. Hustling is not bad. It's when it's. It's. Yeah, heartless hustling is bad. So.
- [24:01]
Lindsay Roman
Well, that would. But yes. Okay, well then the question is how do you think hustle culture lines up with the Bible? Especially in when it does align with like hard work or like God's put a dream or a calling on your heart and you can. Maybe there's.
- [24:18]
Evvi McLeod
God talks about like the sluggard or like.
- [24:20]
Lindsay Roman
Right, right, exactly. I guess the two fold question is like, maybe how do you know when it's like a selfish ambition versus God's calling on your heart. And then when you feel that pull of hard work, I guess, how do you stray from making it hustle mentality, like in a negative way?
- [24:36]
Felicia Masonheimer
Yeah, I'm going to go back to that urgency. It's the urgency and anxiety. Those are the red flags. Because the difference between hustle, secular hustle, and biblical diligence is the ability to rest. That's the big difference maker. Because when God talks about work in the Bible, God always has a mandated rest. He models it in the creation story, right? He works for six days, he rests the seventh, and then that's the model he hands to his people. And he mandates the rest day, including, like, when. When the Israelites are in the wilderness and he says, I'm going to provide manna for you. I'm literally going to feed you every single day. All you have to do is go out and diligently pick it up. Six days, but you can't pick it up the seventh day. I want you to trust me. You'll have a double portion. It won't run out. And then the people who didn't trust him did gather up, you know, extra or, like, try to save it for the. The next day. And it rotted. And it had, like, maggots in it. Why? Because it was evidence that the work that they did out of distrust would not last.
- [25:48]
Lindsay Roman
Slamming us when one liners left and right, I feel attacked in the best way.
- [25:54]
Felicia Masonheimer
Listen, I've learned this the hard way. When we are asked by God to be diligent, it's an ask that always comes with rest. And like, practically speaking for me is that I never fully finish my list. And it bothers me. But I heard this sermon by Charles Stanley once where he was like, you will never finish the list, and you need to accept it because God is a knock for that unfinished list. And I just was like, oh, my goodness. I've been believing all this time that one day I actually will, like, completely finish it. And that'll be the day, you know, And I just had this, like, underlying anxiety that I could just never actually, like, finish what I was supposed to do. And that was just very freeing for me for him to say, you won't finish it, you're not going to, and you won't ever be perfect, because only God is perfect. So he has offered to make up the difference and you should just choose to be diligent and then. And then rest. So we do observe a Sabbath weekly. We observe it on Sunday other People observe it on different days of the week. But that helps us to have a pretty firm boundary on time because otherwise it's very easy to, to, to bleed into every, every hour of the day. Especially if you own your own business or you're an entrepreneur, it's really easy to just constantly work.
- [27:21]
Evvi McLeod
Yeah, that's neatly. Yeah, I've been there, done that. It's so true. If you are loving what you're hearing on today's episode, then we wanted to share something else you might love the Heart Shop. It's our digital resource online shop for creative entrepreneurs. The Heart Shop is your one stop shop for all of our online courses, luxury website templates, PDF guides, social media, graphic templates and illustrations.
- [27:47]
Lindsay Roman
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- [28:23]
Evvi McLeod
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- [28:38]
Lindsay Roman
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- [28:52]
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- [29:09]
Lindsay Roman
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- [29:22]
Evvi McLeod
That actually leads Perfectly into. One of the things that was kind of on my mind as you were talking and saying all that was the concept of burnout. Because I feel like, like hustle naturally can lead to burnout, or working from a place of, as you so eloquently and convictingly said, distrust. It doesn't last. So it's like there's just this posture where very often, as entrepreneurs, at least once in our journeys, life's careers, most of us will experience burnout. I mean, not that I, like, want to be like, that's your lot in life. I would beg that you please listen to this and to FAI and what she's saying and do not experience burnout. But it's very common. So what are your thoughts on that? And especially maybe have you experienced burnout? What are your thoughts on, from a biblical perspective in all of this? Obviously, you're bringing that lens to all of this. What are your thoughts on burnout? Recovering from burnout, reconnecting with God's timing plan, will, trusting him in that lesson. All of it.
- [30:32]
Felicia Masonheimer
Yeah, I have experienced burnout. And there were a lot of factors at the time. We were really working hard to build the ministry to where it could support itself and to support us. It was a pretty scary time. We were trying to pay employees fairly. We were also giving a lot. We were tithing a lot, actually. Tithing more than we should have. I know that sounds like a weird thing to say, but we, yeah, we just were more than was wise for our season. And. And I do think that's specific to people, what you feel called to give. But it was. It was just really hard. It was very scary. And my health was taking a toll. I was super anxious. And so there were quite a few changes that we had, both financially and that included, for a while, our personal finances, like, cutting back personally so that we can make sure that the business would thrive and that it was healthy and good for everybody included on the team, but also looking at the boundaries with work time. So what was happening was I didn't have a plan for my work. I just sporadically would sit down and, like, do whatever felt the most urgent. And I started really forcing myself because I'm not a very organized person. I am very creative. Was a writer first, you know, I wasn't a manager. I wasn't a business person. So I had to learn all this. And one of the things I had to do is discipline myself to restraint. That's actually one of the things in scripture we see that the Holy Spirit does. He offers freedom in certain areas. And he also motivates restraint, which is self control. And I think that something that's funny about our culture is that a lot of like hustle culture was simultaneously like work every single hour. So no restraint on your boundaries, on your. Your work time. And then it's also little treat culture. So like, I deserve to get my nails done and buy coffee every day. And so you're simultaneously working yourself to death, so spending your money frivolous, frivolous. And I bought into some of this stuff where I was like, I work so hard. I deserve a little treat. Well, guess what? You had to sell three ebooks to pay for that little treat. So now you get to go back and work more. And so just looking out at my life and going, this is not healthy. Like, yes, because you're burning out. You have these unhealthy habits. You have to now create a discipline around your time, and then you have to create discipline around your money so that you can responsibly move forward into the freed freedom that God has for your business. So what happened was I divided up my week and I created theme days. This is taken from Michael Hyatt, who does has great advice on business. But I created theme days where I had one day for internal meetings with a team, one day for external meetings with other organizations, interviews. That's what today is for. I'm talking with you ladies. And then I have one day for recording, one day for writing, and one day for external marketing communication. And so each day has its focus. I work until 5:30 and then I am done. I'm off and I'm with my family. So with those clear boundaries, I now know exactly what's expected of me. And if I don't finish the list, I can give myself grace. But it helped me to then go, okay, this is what this time is for. And I'm no longer irresponsible with that. It. I'm working hard, but I'm also clear about rest. And so that's. That's practically what helped me get out of that burnout stage.
- [34:34]
Evvi McLeod
So good. I think that's so you. Maybe it hit home in the perfect way. But I just, I'm just in case, going to reiterate what you just said. The fact that you will never be done with your list is just, I mean, the truth, just fact. Like it will never ever. I don't even care. Because you could be like, well, it may be done if I like, you know, scale back my business or downsize. No, I'm sorry. I Don't care.
- [35:03]
Lindsay Roman
I feel like when we get to the our, the end of our list, if anybody's brain is like mine, I'm like, what else could I do? Like, literally it's like you get on a high of like achievement.
- [35:12]
Evvi McLeod
Well, you also, I mean even if, even if I would love to meet the unicorn one day who has truly completed everything on, on their list and actually keep a, a accurate list. I'm not talking about the person who like jotted down three things and crossed them all off. I'm talking about the person who truly has like their to do list running at all times and has completed everything. I would love to meet with that person because I'm like, even if you finish business, like you quit business, you're done with work, like income producing, you know, outside of your home work, and you decide to fully dedicate yourself to motherhood and homeschooling, I'm sorry, your list is going to still be 50 items long. I don't care what you were doing. If you're a stay at home single trust fund baby woman, no one around you, I'm sorry, you still have 25 things on your list. I feel like it's just human nature. And that was like for you fai, that was a huge aha moment for me as well in my journey of, you know, productivity with a very balanced slash, like stable. Sustainable. That's the word I was looking for. Sustainable approach. And I love what you just said with, in the burnout conversation which was you will never complete your list. So let's focus on managing your time well when you are working, having very clear boundaries of when I'm not working and, and you know, recognizing that I will again every single day still have items waiting for me on my list. And that's okay.
- [36:54]
Felicia Masonheimer
And that's okay. Yeah, that's the thing is just the acceptance piece. And that's, it's, it's again to go back to the, the manna example. They were told don't gather on the seventh day. And I think sometimes those things that are left over on the list that's like, don't gather on the seventh day. Like just, just leave them and trust him with them. And you know, it's one thing if over, over the course I'm a big procrastinator. It's something I'm always working on. If it's one thing, if it's like you keep punting the one task down the road, then yeah, okay, maybe it's time to just like go, I gotta put on my Big girl panties and do this task like, sure, but at some point, we have to just accept, okay, if I'm diligent for the hours that I have, I stay focused. You know, do work in small increments, set timers for yourself, pair it with something you like. Like, do whatever hacks you need to do, but just recognize that nobody's ever going to perfectly finish. It's not going to always be inbox zero. And you can still call that success if you worked hard for the time that you were given.
- [37:59]
Evvi McLeod
Well, especially this is something I teach my students when I'm, like, talking to them about productivity is when you are stewarding your time well within those allotted. You know that. That work hours, those boundaries that you've set for yourself of I'm on, I'm working, you know, I'm off, I'm with my family or resting or whatever it is. When you're stewarding your time well in those hours you're able, it. It brings so much clarity and peace and confidence to be able to recognize, hey, today I worked on the most important task. And whether I completely finished that one task or I got 80% complete with it or whatever it is, like, that was the thing that was the most important. And so I can finish my day. Maybe I dropped 15 more items on my to do list throughout that day, but those items are for later. That's for another time. This moment I was needed to be locked in. And it's like when you are stewarding your time well and able to identify this is the thing or the three things or whatever it is that I need to be focused on, then you have it, really, at least for me in my journey. And I feel like, fi, you're nodding emphatically. So. I feel like you, too, like, when you. When you're able to identify those things, and it creates this ability to walk away from your to do list because you are confident and clear in I accomplished the things that needed to be accomplished today. Whereas if you're just haphazardly randomly grabbing a random item off your to do list, it's gonna be a lot harder to walk away from that full list because realistically, you probably didn't work on the number one item that really is important in that day. So it comes down to stewarding your time, I think.
- [39:44]
Felicia Masonheimer
Yeah, yeah. And really being clear on what you are called to do. So, again, this is why, if you are operating from that place of urgency or discontent, you aren't going to have clarity on what you're actually called to do, because you're just trying to find something to fill your time. If you know what you're called to do, then you can really sit down and say, okay, how do I get there? What tasks will move me that direction? And then each, you know, month, week, and day, you can say, what are my objectives for this week? Okay, today's Tuesday. What is my objective for Tuesday? These five things. And if I get those five done, you know, or close to it, then great, I moved forward on that call in a small, tangible way, or it isn't always tangible. Sometimes it just is a small way, and that's still okay. So it's really being clear. Like, like, am I. Do I know what I'm trying to move towards? Do I have a clear vision? And if I don't, I will wait until I do so that I can really distinguish what tasks I'm supposed to be spending my time on.
- [40:50]
Evvi McLeod
So good.
- [40:51]
Lindsay Roman
I feel like a big part of this conversation and probably a big why for when people are constantly trying to chase the to do list and cross things off, off. I feel like we almost need to bring part of the conversation into, like, people are tying their worth to their productivity or to, like, the, the check point of the to do list. What would you say to. To somebody that's listening that's like, oh, yeah, that's definitely me. Like, I, I can tell that I, like, my worth is directly tied to, like, how much I achieve or how much I'm getting done, AKA my productivity.
- [41:29]
Felicia Masonheimer
Yeah, I, I can relate to that because I love a good checklist and I love to check stuff off and especially to have it all done by the end of the week. It feels really good. Right. But it's an identity issue. So, like, where is my identity really? Is it in a completed checklist? And one thing that's kind of a good signal for me is, like, the things I'm tempted to brag about are most likely where my identity is. So this is true of anything like a motherhood culture. If you're tempted to brag about how long you breastfed or the fact that everything you make for your kids is organic or that they wear beige all the time, if that's where your identity is, you're going to want to talk about it. It's the same with work. Like, oh, I completed my to do list. I'm always in box zero. Well, what happens is when you don't reach inbox zero, now, suddenly your entire worth is in question. You have to keep it up or you don't have value. So you have to find your worth and value outside of what you do, or you are trapped in this endless cycle of keeping up appearances. You can't fail. You can't afford to fail. And that's what hustle culture was all about. That's why women were burning out on it. It's why I've seen multiple businesses and ministries close in the last five years. That began 10 years ago, right when I was be. I think because women started to say, this isn't worth it to me anymore. I don't want to do it. I'm tired. I'm exhausted. I'm done. And they're very happy. So I'm glad they found what was peaceful for them. But I look at that and I go, okay, so what do we need to do for those of us who stay in business and stay in ministry? How do we do that sustainably in the future? And it starts by finding your identity in what God has said about you as an individual, as a person, and knowing that he's not measuring your worth by your work. You are doing your work out of an unchangeable worth. And if you don't recognize that, then any failure will be unrecoverable.
- [43:41]
Evvi McLeod
Wow.
- [43:42]
Felicia Masonheimer
Do you.
- [43:43]
Evvi McLeod
That was so good.
- [43:44]
Lindsay Roman
Let's just let that simmer for a second. For the listeners. Do you have any for the listener?
- [43:49]
Evvi McLeod
For the listener. For a friend. Lizzie's sitting over there, like, frantically drawing down.
- [43:59]
Lindsay Roman
I just, like, God needed. I need. God knew I needed this. This is great.
- [44:03]
Evvi McLeod
I'm also very convicted. So you're not alone. And it's funny because it's easy. It's easy to be like, oh, yeah, wait, hang on. Because it's. You can know these things, and you can still find yourself, like, specifically Phi. At least for me. I don't know if you, too. When you said something about, like, am I doing this from a place of like. Like, there's like, an anxiety or, like, a franticness? And I was like, oh, shoot. Cause I'm, like, in the middle of prepping for a launch right now as we're recording this, and I'm like, shoot. I have felt a lot more, like, pressure and anxiety starting to, like, sit on my shoulders the last, like, couple of weeks. And I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. That's really good. That actually is a major red flag. What am I doing?
- [44:35]
Lindsay Roman
Re.
- [44:36]
Evvi McLeod
Re. Align. Realign. Which is so good. I'm curious. I. I have so many. So many things I want to say or ask, but specifically on that topic, of worth. I feel like that is. Is so freaking true. And it's very easy for us to sit here and be like, oh, my gosh, you're right. But do you have any, I guess, practical encouragement or tangible takeaways for the listener who's like, I just had a light bulb moment. I think I am tying my worth to my productivity or what I do or, you know, and I'm not operating out of a place of, like, my identity comes from God or do you have anything for them? Like, here's what you would do to kind of find that.
- [45:20]
Felicia Masonheimer
So this is something that psychologists do subtly with OCD patients. They do, like, very subtle exposure therapy where they will sometimes, like, make a rug slightly crooked or move something on a shelf. And you kind of have to do that to yourself at the beginning. You kind of have to do exposure therapy to yourself. And that means, like, purposely not finishing your list and like, shutting the computer and walking away, leaving the house if you have to. Whatever it is that you're tempted to return to. If it's like social media deleting it off your phone, or like, I'll just answer a few dms, that's what. That's one for me. I'm like, I hate notifications. So I'm like, oh, if I just, like, you know, clear them out real quick. No, now, you know, let's. Let's not do that. So practically speaking, like, kind of the exposure therapy route of, like, making yourself not do these tasks that you're tempted to find your worth in just little by little and beginning to recognize the lies that your mind believes. I'm not diligent, lazy. Oftentimes we do all this overworking out of some sort of lie that we unconsciously believe about ourselves. Like, maybe a parent figure said, you're just lazy when you're growing up. And so you're like, I'm gonna prove that I'm not lazy, and I'm gonna work hard. And it ultimately becomes like this. This long quest to, like, prove an identity instead of living in the identity that God gave you. So I would just start with like, that. And then, of course, from a spiritual perspective, you've got to accept what God says about you. But to do that, you have to know it. In First John 4, it says, We've come to know and believe the love that God has for us. A lot of people know intellectually, but they don't believe it. So really asking yourself, do you know what God says about you and do you believe it? And if you don't then go back to what scripture says about you. Write it out, memorize it, dwell on it. Take time for that and allow that to really permeate who you are. And give it time because it's not an overnight thing.
- [47:30]
Evvi McLeod
That was so good.
- [47:31]
Lindsay Roman
That's so good.
- [47:32]
Evvi McLeod
I have another question that's not on our list. List.
- [47:34]
Lindsay Roman
Do you have also about to equally ask.
- [47:37]
Evvi McLeod
I'm sure we're going to ask the same one.
- [47:39]
Lindsay Roman
Okay, you go.
- [47:41]
Evvi McLeod
I. I could be wrong because this is nowhere on our list.
- [47:44]
Felicia Masonheimer
Curious.
- [47:45]
Evvi McLeod
Okay. F are you Will. I could be opening a can of worms. So if I am, feel free to just close the lid again. In this conversation, could we possibly Discuss the Proverbs 31 woman and what are your words? Because was that not?
- [48:00]
Lindsay Roman
No, that wasn't. But I feel like it kind a. Wait, that goes really like, like a jointedly. Is that a word to what I was gonna ask? Oh, I was gonna ask about like, like out of the girl boss culture into like the more homemaker like culture.
- [48:13]
Evvi McLeod
Proverbs 31 Woman kind of ties right in.
- [48:15]
Lindsay Roman
I know, that's what I'm saying.
- [48:16]
Felicia Masonheimer
She crosses over.
- [48:17]
Evvi McLeod
Well, cuz that's. I feel like Eve. We've even done it on this conversation of you know, our work and, and working and, and bringing in income and being wise and different things, you know, as women, I truly do believe there is a biblical aspect to it and we see it in, you know, the Proverbs 31 woman. So we've even talked about it on that show before. We've brought up the Proverbs 31 woman at least once or twice. But in this whole conversation of worth and productivity and stuff, I'm just curious, what are your thoughts on that proverb and you know, that concept tying into all this? I have so many things. So go ahead.
- [48:53]
Felicia Masonheimer
Yeah. So Proverbs 31 is written obviously it's very last proverb in the book of Proverbs. Proverbs as a general rule is. The genre is wisdom literature. So that means that what you're seeing is like poetic parallelism and it's describing principles of life. So it's not like laws, it's not rules, it's general principles, broad principles of life. What's generally understood is that at the beginning of Proverbs 31 it says that King Lemuel's mother gave this to him like as. As wisdom or advice around what this woman looks like. What's interesting though, we have a course coming out on the understanding the Old Testament in this in spring 2025. And I'm co teaching it with scholar Chad Bird and he does a section on wisdom literature and specifically on Proverbs 31. And Proverbs 31 by some sch is understood to be an echo of earlier in Proverbs 5 through 7, which talks about Lady Wisdom. So when you read Proverbs 31 alongside the lady Wisdom chapters, what you see is not this list of unrealistic tasks that a woman has to accomplish, but general principles of how anybody who operates by wisdom lives their lives. So if you are going into business, you are, you're diligent. Her hand is on the disc staff and on the spindle. Like she's diligent to do her work, says her lamp does not go out at night. That doesn't mean that she's working all night. It means that she has a candle lit in the window, that she's hospitable, she's there for people. These are general principles, not a list of like heavy requirements that every woman is supposed to fulfill. And because I could go into like the history of biblical interpretation, but that's not what this is about. Things changed historically in how we looked at some of these passages, began to read them very literally, very face value. And so especially with things like Proverbs, like, it's not just like, oh, there it is. Sometimes it is. Some proverbs are. But others are much more symbolic or general or broad. And Proverbs 31 is one of those passages. So when you read it that way, it's much less condemning and much more hopeful because it's like, okay, here's a general principle about how, how someone lives over the 80 years of their lives. This isn't a woman who's doing all this all at once. This is a woman whose entire life builds up to this picture, which I.
- [51:34]
Lindsay Roman
Feel like a lot of people read it as if, like, oh, that's the image of the perfect woman and wife and mother and therefore in her late.
- [51:42]
Evvi McLeod
20S and I'm behind, you know, right.
- [51:45]
Lindsay Roman
In her perfect like 28 year old self, she's doing all of these things and her children live in luxury with their clothes of line or like, so I love that you broke that down. Just like the historical context of like, well, what is this book about and how to read that? Because it is a different way of looking at it and it's much more.
- [52:06]
Felicia Masonheimer
And also it says she manages her household, she's managing people. She's not, it's not all her. She has servants, she has people living there. Like culturally, yes, she was the matriarch. Again, if this is lady wisdom, then this is again just a picture of, of the mind of someone who is led by God. Like that's really what it is. Whatever she sets her hand to, it's led by God's wisdom. And so it's, it's not like she's. Every woman has to be a business owner. Like if we're going to take it literally at face value, every single woman has to be a wife, a mother, with a husband who's in leadership and who is a business owner. And that doesn't make any sense. So, so it, it has to be more flexible than that because that's how God is when it comes to these types of, of biblical literature.
- [53:00]
Evvi McLeod
That's so good. Okay, well, do you have, do you have a follow up with that?
- [53:04]
Lindsay Roman
Well, I was just gonna pivot to my, my question which was like the very.
- [53:07]
Evvi McLeod
Yeah, that's what I mean. Was your question still relevant?
- [53:11]
Lindsay Roman
I think so. It was.
- [53:12]
Evvi McLeod
Well, I don't remember what you were asking. Now she's doubting herself. I wasn't meaning to question you. I just didn't remember what it was, so.
- [53:18]
Lindsay Roman
Oh, what? No, it's, it's like kind of in the, in this conversation of even Proverbs 31 woman in this conversation of hustle culture and really like girl bossing it. I feel like you kind of mentioned this at the beginning of the conversation, but since 2020 we've definitely seen a, A, a pendulum swing towards people stopping the hustle. Not, not full, but like, like a good chunk. Especially women. I've noticed stopping this hustle mentality going and, and striving for more slow, striving for less. And specifically I feel like I've seen a lot of women, whether it's friends or ourselves, lol, swing away from just like this like constant hustle. Go, go, go girl boss, like very, very much, you know, that realm into more of either like lessening their businesses, quitting their businesses, or leaning more into that homemaker motherhood. I feel like almost, I feel this is a different conversation, but like even like the trad wives, like the whole ballerina farm controversy of like, like how that's almost become like more popular in culture as like a pendulum swing to like the feminist girl boss.
- [54:30]
Felicia Masonheimer
Yeah, it is. It's always a pendulum swing. It, you know, it always is culture reacting to culture. And, and I always think that God, he's so steady, right? Like he's so steadying, he's so stable, he's so centering and he doesn't pendulum swing so he's like waiting in the middle for us to like sync back up and be like oh yeah, you didn't ask me to like beat the pavement to get everything done and you didn't ask me to just wear linen dresses and cook everything from scratch either. So you know, know it's. I think it's funny for me it's hard because I'm like in this tension of living in both worlds. Like I literally feel like I have a foot in both worlds. Like I'm a homeschool mom. I do wear dresses a lot. I just like them. I hate pants. So you know, I have that aspect. I have, we have a farm, we live in the country. But I also lead a team of, of 11 of us, you know, and my husband, he says he works for me, I say he works with me. You know, know it's, it's a very strange place to be when it's like there is a business woman aspect to it. And then yeah, half my life looks a little bit like a trad wife. So what's the, what's the tension or what's the holy moderation as I would put it? I think it really goes back again to your identity. A lot of women are very quick to put their identity in what they do. Whether that's in how crunchy they are and how they don't work or in, you know, how they do work. And, and neither one is going to save you. You're going to be left empty chasing this. You're going to get mad when people don't affirm you. You're going to be discontent in some way because it's going to come up empty. And again, if people don't like feed into your identity source or recognize it or celebrate it, you're going to start to question yourself because your identity's in a thing instead of in a person. And so the only way to be secure in your choices is to know I'm doing what God asked me to do. Whether that's not working or working or you know, doing full time business or part time business. Taking more clients, taking less, launching, not launching. And I get it. Like we have a, we, we had a low month a couple months ago. It. And it scared me and it was an opportun opportunity for me to go, am I the provider? Is God the provider? We made some decisions. I'm responsible for those business decisions. They affect the team. I made them for reasons I thought God led. So now I have to Trust God to make the difference. And then if it, if I didn't listen well enough, then I have to accept responsibility for it. That's part of being a leader. So it's, it's really just growing in maturity, I think. Enough to, to ground yourself in what God says about, about you, to take ownership of your decisions, to be willing to change when you need to, and disciplining yourself in the areas that you need discipline, but also just saying, maybe the discipline is rest. That might be the discipline. It might not be more stuff to do. It might be I have to choose to say no and just trust God to make up the difference.
- [57:55]
Evvi McLeod
Well, I'm going to be repeating this.
- [57:59]
Lindsay Roman
I have another question that came to me while she was talking. How do you know. Know when God is saying, well, this is a can of worms? How do you know? Like, when God is saying yes to something or when he's saying no?
- [58:13]
Felicia Masonheimer
That can be very individual to the person, you know. Again, our walks with God are so personal. So a couple things I check are, number one, like, is there anything in scripture about it? So we want to start there. What has God already said about it? Right. So if it's like, I'm feeling called to cheat my business partner, obviously, no. Right. But then beyond that, it's like, okay, maybe you have this really great opportunity. And we had the opportunity to buy out another company about a year ago, and it looked really good. I wanted to do it. I was like, this is fantastic. I love this company. I love this person. We'd love to steward it. We ran all the numbers, and Josh and I were not unified on it. And for us, what that did was like, it's not like that actually buying the company was a yes or no. Like, the Bible doesn't say only buy these companies. The Bible does say, though, that you should be unified with your spouse. So we couldn't get in unity on it. And we went and got advice and mentorship and all these things, and we couldn't. So we said, okay, well, I'm sorry, we have to pray more or say no. We understand if you have to move on. Came back around the next time around when we prayed about it, they offered it again. I. I didn't feel comfortable. And the Lord through prayer had brought us into alignment. So checking scripture, but then getting advice and wisdom, recognizing are, am I in unity with the people I'm supposed to be unified with? If you're not married, that could be a business partner. It could be. It could just be the Lord, you know, whatever the case may be. And then, you know, obviously asking. Asking good questions, like, from a wisdom perspective, what would the num. Would the numbers be good? Is this risk worth it? Et cetera. And in the end, by us saying no, it led to the owner of that business keeping the company and making it thrive in a new way. And so our obedience and her obedience led to success in a way that neither of us knew could be possible. So, you know, just like, being patient, asking those questions, waiting on the Lord. It was months, you know, and when it initially happened, like Evie and I were talking about, I felt that urgency, like, we have to take care of this now. This decision has to be made now. And even some pride, like, oh, look how exciting. We got asked to buy out another company. Well, guess what? That's not what God wanted. And that being willing to be patient, be wrong, be humble. I think those are all. All the, like, hard things that those of us who are trying to have a heart in our hustle have to learn.
- [61:00]
Evvi McLeod
Amen. So good.
- [61:03]
Lindsay Roman
So good.
- [61:03]
Evvi McLeod
Oh, my goodness. I. I could. I could continue this conversation Joe Rogan.
- [61:09]
Lindsay Roman
Style for, like, I know, like, order some three hours, order some takeout, have it brought in. Just keep eating.
- [61:16]
Evvi McLeod
I'm. I'm ready to roc roll. This is so good, Fi. And I feel like this is a conversation that needs to be had way more often in. In business in general, but also even from my own personal experience, even sitting here on, you know, having this conversation with you. And I'm like, I. I teach a lot of this. I coach. Like, this is the perspective that I bring to my coaching students. And I'm still convicted as we sit here. And I'm actively in a season where I'm like, ah. There's definitely some, like, urgency and, like, you know, low level anxiety that's been coming into, like, my business lately. And I'm like, I gotta grind. I gotta go. I gotta, you know, pull some late hours. And there is sometimes there is a moment where I'm like, you know what? I didn't steward my time well a few months, like, a few months ago, and I led myself to this place. But I have a deadline and a commitment, and I need to, you know, uphold that. So that's. That's occasional, just, in my opinion, Ms. Stewardship of Time. But. But it's also just like this conversation not only needs to happen more, but I think we all need to have it regularly because we all need the reminder of, like, hey, your worth is not in your work. And, you know, you. It's not sustainable to be grinding at all times, working from a place of. Of anxiety and fear that that will lead to burnout.
- [62:44]
Felicia Masonheimer
I have one other thought that might be helpful for. Since you have, you know, it's women who are mostly listening. When we look at Scripture, women are tempted in very specific ways. So I don't believe that women are more easily deceived than men or anything like that. But because, like, when we go back to Genesis 3, it says that Eve took the fruit, but, like, Adam was a whimper. He's just like, like, lounging in the bushes, like, whatever, do what you want. And so I'm just like, this is. Obviously they're both. And. And God held Adam responsible. So you've got that. But notice what. Why Eve took the fruit. Eve took the fruit. First of all. She had a ton of initiative. She's like, hanging out, looking at it like, you know, I want to kind of like, take care of my family. And there's three reasons said it was. It was a delight to the eyes, it was desirable for making one wise, and it was good to eat. So it was pretty, it was practical, and it was provision. And when you move forward through scripture, this is almost always behind the temptations of women. So if you look at, like, Sarah and Abraham, Hagar is pretty, she's practical, and she's provisioned. Sarah's like, look, take this woman and let's just get this promised son on the way. And then it blows up in their face. You go further on. And to look at some of the other women in Scripture, again, it's not saying that women are the only one making mistakes because the men are all the time. But specifically for women, they rationalize a lot of their temptations with these three things. And so when we're making decisions in business, I think that's something to step back from and ask. Am I drawn to this because it's really pretty or, like, it'll make me look.
- [64:29]
Evvi McLeod
Look good?
- [64:30]
Felicia Masonheimer
Am I drawn to this because it's practical? It just makes sense. Am I drawn to this because it will provide financially for me? Because I'm afraid this is also a big driver behind polygamy when it was driven by wives in the Old Testament too, is they were like, well, pretty practical, providing, like, I need to take care of my family so we justify it to ourselves because we're like, I need to step in. Like, I need to make sure this is taken care of. And that's where God is standing there saying, like, I'm asking you to trust me to be the provider for you in these areas. And so just recognizing those patterns in myself and saying, you know, okay, fi. Like, what's your motivation here? Are you drawn to these aspects because this is a pattern of temptation for you, or is it actually what God's asking for? You can be a good litmus test.
- [65:22]
Lindsay Roman
That's so good.
- [65:24]
Felicia Masonheimer
So good. Wow.
- [65:25]
Evvi McLeod
Well, that was just a mic drop.
- [65:27]
Lindsay Roman
I'm just gonna marinate over here in my chair.
- [65:32]
Evvi McLeod
I love it. For any woman who is currently listening to this or just listener men, we are not trying to segregate you out. We just know there are a lot less of you if you. For anyone who's currently listening to this, who's like, I. I am obsessed with the way this woman addresses things, clarifies things, brings things to the forefront of con. Where can they learn from you? Follow along, read your books, all of the things.
- [66:02]
Felicia Masonheimer
Oh, thanks. Yeah, I'm on social media, Facebook and Instagram mainly. And I'm Felicia Masonheimer, or our company is Everywoman, a theologian. So both those handles have pages that you can follow. And Our website is feliciamasenheimer.com it has all of our books, all of our resources, our free resources. We have a lot of free guides, and then we have, you know, children's discipleship resources and a hospitality line as well. So all of that is on feliciamasenheimer.com also have a podcast, Verity Podcast. It's theology focused. So I don't often get to talk about the business side, which is why it was so fun to talk with you ladies, because usually it's just theology is what I'm concentrated on. But we do have a new course that came out in the spring. It is called Understanding the Old Testament. So it will have more about the idea behind Proverbs 31, if that's something that you would want to know more about. And we have all of that accessible through our platform. Or you can just email us at felicia felicia masonheimer.com and we can send you any links to anything you want to know more about.
- [67:11]
Lindsay Roman
I love it.
- [67:11]
Evvi McLeod
Amazing.
- [67:12]
Lindsay Roman
Felicia, thank you so much for being here and for dropping the mic. Many, many a time for us and our listeners. I know everyone listening to this is just like equally mind blown and on the floor probably. So thank you so much. You just convicted so many girls in the best way possible, as you do perfectly. So thank you so much for your time and your wisdom and for being here.
- [67:36]
Felicia Masonheimer
Well, I'm right there with you, and thank you so much for having me.