436: OOPS! We Accidentally Enraged the Entire Bridal Hair & Makeup Industry. Let’s Discuss with Michelle of Sandra Michelle Artistry

Summary

Summary of "The Heart & Hustle Podcast" Episode 436: OOPS! We Accidentally Enraged the Entire Bridal Hair & Makeup Industry. Let’s Discuss with Michelle of Sandra Michelle Artistry

Introduction

In Episode 436 of The Heart & Hustle Podcast, hosts Evie McLeod and Lindsay Roman address an unintended controversy that erupted within the bridal hair and makeup industry. The episode features Michelle Villalobos from Sandra Michelle Artistry, who joins the conversation to provide insights, clarify misunderstandings, and foster better collaboration among wedding vendors.

Background of the Controversy

The episode begins with Evie and Lindsay explaining how a clip from a previous podcast episode was inadvertently posted as a reel on social media, leading to significant backlash from the bridal hair and makeup community.

• Evie McLeod [00:25]: "We've angered the hair and makeup artists, specifically the bridal hair and makeup artist industry, unintentionally."
• Lindsay Roman [00:44]: Evie introduces Michelle Villalobos, highlighting her expertise and their professional relationship.

Unintentional Provocation

Evie recounts how their social media manager selected a ten-second clip from a longer discussion about wedding timelines, which was taken out of context and quickly went viral, amassing up to 70k views and hundreds of comments.

• Evie McLeod [07:24]: "I have shoved my foot in my mouth."
• Lindsay Roman [09:28]: "It was literally the quote of Evie being, like, running into the ground."

Michelle Villalobos’ Perspective

Michelle shares her initial reaction to the reel, expressing hurt and confusion upon seeing the negative comments.

• Michelle Villalobos [11:23]: "It hurt."
• Lindsay Roman [15:06]: "They have not responded to one thing, which to me was like, what is going on here?"

Michelle clarifies that her comments were taken out of context and were not intended to blame hair and makeup artists for timeline issues.

• Michelle Villalobos [13:36]: "I know that that's not your character, but I think, unfortunately, that is something that we encounter on a very, like, pretty much all the time."
• Evie McLeod [07:45]: "I fully own up to that."

Challenges Faced by Hair & Makeup Artists

Michelle details the complexities of managing wedding day timelines, highlighting the role of hair and makeup artists as the first vendors on-site who set the tone for the day.

• Michelle Villalobos [19:17]: "We are the first vendor. I've never gone to a wedding and not been the first vendor on site."
• Michelle Villalobos [22:06]: Describes the chaos of mornings, likening it to "herding cats."

She emphasizes the importance of thorough planning, buffer times, and clear communication to mitigate delays.

• Michelle Villalobos [28:52]: "Honestly, it literally starts with their consultation call."
• Michelle Villalobos [32:32]: "If someone shows up an hour and a half, two hours late, I'm sorry you missed your appointment."

Perception and Respect in the Wedding Industry

The discussion shifts to the often-overlooked status of hair and makeup artists within the wedding vendor ecosystem. Michelle points out that despite their crucial role, they are frequently underappreciated and not properly credited in photos.

• Michelle Villalobos [50:22]: "I'm not even there, and I'm literally like, working on the ride."
• Lindsay Roman [51:51]: "If you're a photographer, tag your freaking hair and makeup artist."

Advice for Better Collaboration

Michelle offers practical advice for other wedding vendors to support hair and makeup artists, fostering a more respectful and collaborative environment.

• Michelle Villalobos [55:54]: "Being aware of that kind of stuff, being aware of our timing, which will help everyone."
• Michelle Villalobos [57:36]: Encourages vendors to acknowledge and thank hair and makeup artists, enhancing mutual respect and teamwork.

Hosts’ Reflections and Apologies

Evie and Lindsay express their deepened respect for hair and makeup artists, apologizing for the unintended offense and committing to better practices moving forward.

• Evie McLeod [66:33]: "I have significantly deepened my respect and appreciation for hair and makeup in this conversation."
• Lindsay Roman [68:12]: "Thank you, Michelle, for being on the show... showing up with grace and giving us grace."

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a mutual appreciation between the hosts and Michelle, emphasizing the importance of understanding and valuing each role within the wedding industry. Evie and Lindsay acknowledge the learning experience and encourage ongoing dialogue to enhance collaboration among all vendors.

• Michelle Villalobos [69:11]: "Thank you for having me on."
• Evie McLeod [69:13]: Expresses gratitude and respect for Michelle’s participation.

Key Takeaways

1. Importance of Context: Miscommunication can lead to significant industry backlash; it's crucial to ensure accurate representation of conversations.
2. Role of Hair & Makeup Artists: They are pivotal in setting the day's tone and ensuring the bride and bridal party look their best for photos.
3. Challenges in Coordination: Managing timelines involves dealing with unpredictable factors like late arrivals and personal mishaps.
4. Need for Respect and Acknowledgment: Properly crediting and appreciating hair and makeup artists fosters a more collaborative and respectful wedding vendor community.
5. Effective Communication: Clear planning, buffer times, and setting expectations with clients are essential to prevent delays and chaos.
6. Apologies and Learning: Recognizing and addressing mistakes openly can lead to better understanding and stronger professional relationships.

This episode serves as a valuable lesson in the importance of collaboration, respect, and clear communication among all wedding vendors to ensure a seamless and joyous event for the couple.

Transcript

[Evie McLeod]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are your hosts, Evie McLeod and Lindsay Roman. This episode is going to be very good, and there are many reasons for that, one of them being because we accidentally lit a fire and then walked away without knowing that we just left a burning match on the ground 100%.

[Lindsay Roman]

We've angered the hair and makeup artists, specifically the bridal hair and makeup artist industry, unintentionally. And we are here to discuss it, to apologize, to just weigh in, and specifically to do that, we have brought on one of our friends who has a hair and makeup artist. So, Evie, do you want to. Do you want to unpack who we're talking to today?

[Evie McLeod]

Absolutely. We get to talk to Michelle Villalobos today. She is an incredibly talented hair and makeup artist who founded her business, Sandra Michelle Artistry, in 2012. She's based out of Temecula, California. She is phenomenal. I have followed her. We have followed each other for years and years. Worked with her on projects before, and I actually reached out to her when I kind of realized everything was popping off and the whole hair and makeup space hated me. Well, and she justifiably. I shoved my foot in my mouth.

[Lindsay Roman]

Which we'll explain in the episode. But she, Michelle, like, was one of the first commenters on the reel that we will talk about in this episode, the one that angered many, many people.

[Evie McLeod]

Which, ironically, we did not see for.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, a week, which we'll also explain in the episode. But, yeah, this is. This is kind of a response episode, but also an opportunity to really open up a discussion in an industry that specifically for photographers that we don't really often think of or get their perspective very often. So this is us formally and humbly apologizing and welcoming Michelle onto the show to get the opinion on. Does hair and makeup run the timeline into the ground? Stay tuned. We will find out. Hey, you. Yes, you listening to this podcast? Do you feel like you've lost all passion, motivation, and creativity? If your hand is raised high to the sky, it sounds like you might be struggling with a little thing we like to call burnout. And let me just tell you, you are not alone in that struggle. And we've both struggled hard with burnout in the past couple of years, pushing ourselves beyond our boundaries without any time to rest.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Let me tell you, it is not fun. Over the last year, we've been diligent in setting up boundaries to combat burnout. And let me tell you, we have learned a thing or two. If you've been here for a while. You know, we are all about sharing the love and helpful info at the Heart University. That is why we want to share our tools and strategies to help you deal with feeling completely depleted. Because as business owners, we are all at risk of burnout. So if you're on the edge and needing help prioritizing rest in your schedule. Look no further. We have a freebie ready for you to download and implement into your life. Snag [e-mail] burnout. Hey.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Hey.

[Lindsay Roman]

I'm Lindsay Roman.

[Evie McLeod]

And I'm Evie McLeod. And we are family and legacy focused serial entrepreneurs and the founders of the Hart University, a business education company with a mission to help you thrive in your business and life.

[Lindsay Roman]

Welcome to our entrepreneur cocktail hour where business and marketing strategies meet faith. Real talk and raw and life changing conversations.

[Evie McLeod]

At the end of the day, we are all in this together, figuring out how to navigate the ups and downs, the messy and the beautiful and everything in between. This is a community where you can come as you are, get inspired and walk away equipped to build a legacy filled life.

[Lindsay Roman]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast.

[Evie McLeod]

Foreign welcome to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We're so excited to have you here today.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Hello. Hello. I'm super excited to be here.

[Evie McLeod]

It's so fun today.

[Lindsay Roman]

A great episode. I actually, I don't think we've had a hair and makeup artist on the show before, I, I think.

[Evie McLeod]

Which is insane when we actually think.

[Lindsay Roman]

About it because we talk about the wedding industry so much.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

But there is a specific reason why. Well, we'll get into it. Michelle, before we even dive into the hot water that we're technically in, can you introduce yourself for our listeners who tell us who you are, where you're based, what you do, all the things.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Yeah. Hi, I am Michelle with Sandra Michelle Artistry. I am a bridal hair and makeup artist. I have been in the strict bridal, like, realm of weddings for about 13 years, but I've actually been doing hair and makeup for 23 years. Yeah. And I'm based in Southern California. California. I focus predominantly on like the Temecula, San Diego, Orange county area. But I do travel all over. Like, I've been to Northern California and I'm hoping to, you know, do more down in Mexico and Europe and that sort of thing. So I'm kind of all over the place.

[Evie McLeod]

I love it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Amazing.

[Evie McLeod]

You're beautifully talented at what you do.

[Lindsay Roman]

So talented.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. I have personally experienced the gift of your magic. You create, you have Made me look more beautiful than I think any other hair and makeup artist has probably ever made.

[Lindsay Roman]

Wait, okay. Share the. Share the connection here that you have.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, it was. It was for the Evie Swim video shoot, right? Yeah, yeah, I think so. Yeah. We were doing, like, a whole day of filming at, like, an airbaby.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's amazing.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. We followed each other for years before that.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Yeah. And we ended up doing two days.

[Evie McLeod]

That's right. Yeah. That was a crazy time in my life.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Like, wind thing happening. And we had to, like, shut down the shoot midday and pick up a whole other day and a whole whole other location.

[Evie McLeod]

Oh, my gosh. I totally forgot about that.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

And I also. I believe I was really trying to get you for my wedding, and that just didn't end up working out. But I. You were like, you're so incredible to work with that I was like, I have to have you for my wedding. And then timing and all the things just didn't end up working out. But you are incredibly talented, what you do, and you will forever be my top choice, if at all possible, for my personal hair and makeup, because you're wonderful.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Oh, well, thank you. No, I love it. I loved working with you. It was so much fun.

[Evie McLeod]

There's.

[Michelle Villalobos]

You know, you can always show up to a place and just know the energy that you're gonna receive when you walk in the door. And you were just so kind. And that smile of yours, it was on your face the entire time. Like, even with all the chaos, you were like, okay, well, we're just gonna pivot here, and we're just gonna. You just kind of, like, went with the day where I would have been, like, a hot mess. Like, oh, my gosh, everything's ruined. My world has fallen apart. And you just seem so positive through the whole process, so you were a pleasure to work with, too.

[Evie McLeod]

You as well. I love it. Well, you know that you have just so kindly said that we are lovely people to. And kind people, particularly Evie. Particularly me. However, in the recent days.

[Lindsay Roman]

Evelyn, why are we here?

[Evie McLeod]

I have shoved my foot in my mouth.

[Lindsay Roman]

You weren't alone. I definitely backed you up on this, but maybe.

[Evie McLeod]

But let's just be real. My language was savage and completely.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay, well, so for anybody that does not know what we're referring to, if you're like, wait, what happened? Which is very similar to how we encountered the situation as well. Evie, do you want to just, like, give people a little start of a backstory of. Of why we're here today?

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, absolutely. So we recorded an episode actually a while ago about wedding timelines for photographers. Like.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like timeline tips for photographers to help your brides plan.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, like how to. How to have a smooth timeline as a photographer. Things to be aware of, you know, potential. Like I don't pitfalls in the timeline areas where you should budget extra time. How much allotment of time we usually give for certain things on the events on the day, like moments of the day. So it was like very much along, you know, detailed whatever episode. But at one point we were talking about kind of the beginning part of the day and getting ready timeline of the day. And we were saying that we usually like to communicate and work with the hair and makeup artists and our bride to have a buffer of additional, you know, wiggle room with hair and makeup. Like to make sure that our bride's ready on time for when we need them, you know, whatever. Everything's all stress free for everyone involved. And I phrased some things very poorly in just rambling and chit chatting and.

[Lindsay Roman]

As we do on the show, many. Yeah, I'm actually shocked we were talking about this. I'm shocked that we've never before had something go so insanely like, like badly. Also, can we run our mouth so often?

[Evie McLeod]

Can we also just find it funny that of the two of us, the person who shoved their foot in their mouth and that actually like got attention was me.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, no, we were both under hot water. You were the person that actually said the thing. Yeah, but normally I run my mouth more than you.

[Evie McLeod]

Anyways, the point was I said I phrased something very poorly that I didn't even intend to. Like, that wasn't my meaning behind it, but I. It basically looked like I was saying that hair and makeup artists are to blame for timelines. I use the phrase very poorly of like being run into the ground. And I didn't even mean the artists were to blame. I meant that part of the day was like chaotic. Whatever. However I phrased it was very poor choice of words. It was, it was taken out of context.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, and it was, it was like 10 seconds in a longer episode because.

[Evie McLeod]

Then our, our social media manager who we like outsourced to and who picks the clips and like whatever and posts them for us. She, for whatever reason, love her to death. We've laughed about it with her. It's like not a big deal. We're not blaming her, throwing her under the bus. She had picked that clip for like a sound bite of that clip for a reel, posted it with no other.

[Lindsay Roman]

It was literally the The. The quote of Evie being, like, running into the ground, whatever. And I was like, yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

And then. So she. She picked that out of context of a bigger episode, posted it, and then went on vacation and wasn't in the hearts.

[Lindsay Roman]

And just real fast, just to give context. To give context. And I want. Michelle, you just. You jump here and here, because I know you commented on this reel, but we just. For anybody that is aware, me and Evie, we love a good outsource moment, and we love to outsource to trusted individuals sometime to a fault in this regard. Like, we're both pregnant. I have three children under five. We both. I homeschool. We both have multiple businesses, and so we're not checking specifically the heart. We don't log in every day or even really every week at all.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, we're in there when our social media manager is like, hey, like, come in and, like, you respond to this or, like, whatever.

[Lindsay Roman]

So it was the perfect timing of. Of starting a bomb in a building and then walking away.

[Michelle Villalobos]

I feel like that's flew.

[Lindsay Roman]

We literally flew off the radar completely, like, to the point that it was. I don't know how many views it got. I think it was up to 70k, all without us knowing at all.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, and, like, I think there were hundreds of comments, Michelle being one of them.

[Lindsay Roman]

So I want to. I want to. You encountered the real. You know, Evie, you. You follow me too.

[Evie McLeod]

So, you know, like, we want your perspective on.

[Michelle Villalobos]

On. I love.

[Lindsay Roman]

What was your take when you. When you saw the reel and all the buzz that it was getting?

[Michelle Villalobos]

Okay, so the funny thing is, is that I logged in in the morning. It was like a normal morning. I just kind of, like, got up and I happened to log in, and I was actually. I think you had, like, three likes on it. Like, you hadn't. It had just gotten posted. I was the first comment. I think I'm almost positive I was like, the first, second, third comment. And I very. Okay, so my initial thoughts to it were, ouch, that hurt. Like, that was like.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, like that.

[Michelle Villalobos]

It hurt.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Michelle Villalobos]

But again, like, I have friends who are photographers, so. Yeah. And I do follow you guys. And so I know that unfortunately, there are some hair and makeup artists that don't treat this as much of a business as they should. It's kind of like, ooh, this is fun. But really, this is a business. And so some of them can run a timeline into the ground, and that is the reality of it. But I think those of us that have successful businesses that have been doing this for A long time. We do have a lot of practices, like, things that we've put into practice, things in our timelines, sending out emails in advance, talking to their brides, all of these things and setting up expectations. We have things that even we do on the day of the wedding to help ensure that that doesn't. But unfortunately, there are the very few that do do that. And then you also have some things that are completely out of our control. So I felt, very honestly, I felt really torn when I saw it because I was like, oh, that really hurts. And I also do know you, Evie, and I knew that, like, I was like, there's no way that she was trying to attack, like, a specific market or a specific person or, you know, people within the industry. I know that that's not your character, but I think, unfortunately, that is something that we encounter on a very, like, pretty much all the time. Like, we just have this name of, like, hair and makeup artist. I don't tell. I can't tell you how often I get asked. So, what's your real job?

[Evie McLeod]

Oh, my gosh. Wow.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Bridal hair and makeup. No, but, like, like, your real job, like, what do you do to, like, like, during the week to make money? And I'm like, this. I've owned my business for almost 13 years. Like, this is what I do full time. And I think it's because we're the fun group or the woohoo group. So I think that there's. Yeah, there's things. And I think it struck a chord in the hair and makeup community. And by no means am I speaking for the entire community, but afterwards, seeing people, like, commenting on what I posted on your reel and then seeing, you know, all the comments just coming in after it, and I was actually really shocked. I was like, they have not responded to one thing, which to me was like, what is going on here? Because it was just popping off on there and then, you know, the equivalent.

[Lindsay Roman]

Of just like on a. On a vacation. Like, that was like the.

[Evie McLeod]

We were, like, frolicking through a little daisy field, like, picking daisies, just living our lives completely oblivious. Like, not only did we not know that that reel was popping off and, like, stirring up such, like, big emotions in the industry, but we had no idea that reel had even been posted. Like, I literally did not know that that was a clip that was taken. That was posted there.

[Lindsay Roman]

Was there. I think there was a comment that I saw. I don't. I don't know if it was on our reel or another reel or wherever, but it was Just like you guys clearly don't even read your comments. And I was like, yeah, no, that 100%. You just clocked it right there. Like, I don't even.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Yeah, I knew that something was up because you guys are normally like responsive and things like that. And yeah, there was so much like clap back going back and forth within like the community and just seeing like the hair and makeup artist community as a whole. Just like, I mean some people were like super respectful and some people were like up in arms and of course, like I commented it and I tried to be very respectful and I think I was. It's. It's been since deleted obviously the real. But.

[Evie McLeod]

We removed that real fast once we figured out what was happening.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like the second we found out, we were like. It was, it was the equivalent of like walking into a room where like everyone has been gossiping about you before you walked in and hate your guts. And you walk in and you're like, what is happening?

[Michelle Villalobos]

What's happening?

[Lindsay Roman]

I just came here for the party.

[Michelle Villalobos]

No, it's.

[Evie McLeod]

Anyways.

[Michelle Villalobos]

But yeah, so that was I guess my initial reaction and kind of like my thought process. Yeah, through it. So. But I think it's hard because not everybody does follow you especially, you know.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, that's what. Before I realized that we had posted a reel. My, My thought was like, do that many hair and makeup artists like listen.

[Evie McLeod]

To the show and, and, and we're so like able to pay attention to a literal 10 second segment in a like hour long podcast. That was the thing that I also.

[Lindsay Roman]

It makes sense now.

[Evie McLeod]

I had to go back and be like, wait, did I say what? And then I realized, oh, that was clip, like clipped and posted as a reel. Because I was like, I don't even remember saying that in the episode. It was like such a short little passing comment that was phrased so poorly.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, okay, now that we presented kind of like what happened. Here we are. Michelle, you're a perfect person that so gracefully was able to see both sides well.

[Evie McLeod]

So Michelle, you and I have like followed each other for years and years. We've worked together obviously. And so when I realized what was happening and I saw that this was like a thing that we'd really upset like hair and makeup artists. Which like, honestly that broke my heart realizing that I had accidentally said something and even maybe had like a part of my heart that was like, oh yeah, it often does run late at that point. Which again, my heart was never ever, ever to like be like, it's your fault. You're you know, terrible business owner. You're not, you know, whatever. It was never, like, I wasn't trying to point fingers at hair and makeup artists, but even if there was a part of me that my heart or understanding of your job was off or whatever, but once I realized this was happening, my heart, I was like, oh, my gosh, I messaged you. I DM'd you and was like, hey, I. I really want to hear your perspective on this, like, to help me, like, understand from your perspective as hair and makeup. And so we started having, like, some voice DMs back and forth that were so good, and your insight was so amazing that Lindsay and I were like, michelle's coming on the podcast. We basically dragged you up. We basically dragged you on here to talk about this because you have such good insight. You're able to understand just from us having a relationship, like, where I was maybe coming from, and that I just stuck my foot in my mouth. But also, you have such incredible insight with all of your years of experience and running an incredible business and all the things. So we want to glean from you and hear from you and learn from you today. So we're grateful that you're here and we're ready to dive in.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Yeah, perfect. No, I love it.

[Lindsay Roman]

I guess starting off, I guess the first question I want to ask is, how do you create your personal, like, schedule for a wedding day for the hair and makeup? And obviously, that probably varies based on, like, what that specific client needs, but I think, like, the. The crux of the heat that happened, in my opinion, is, like, hair and makeup is, like, the first vendor that obviously there's other vendors that might be setting up, but they are the first vendor on a wedding day that, like, affects the timeline in some way. It's like the first stone.

[Michelle Villalobos]

We are the first vendor. I've never gone to a wedding and not been the first vendor on site. We are there hours before and. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

[Lindsay Roman]

No, you're good.

[Evie McLeod]

You're good.

[Michelle Villalobos]

We are the first senders. And like I said, like, we set the tone for the wedding day. And that's in so many different facets. It's number one, personality wise. Like, I walk in and I. That's something that we have to learn to do. We have to learn to read a room. And so, you know, sometimes I walk in and, like, my hands are open. I'm like, it's wedding day. You know, good morning. Like, because that's your bridal party, right? Like, through the woohoo and so you've got to match that energy. You have to. And then sometimes you come in and people are literally, like, rolling out of bed in hotel rooms and like, oh, I just have to brush my teeth all on, you know, like, just trying to put themselves together. So you do, you walk in and you have to read the room and be able to, like, match that energy. And at some point, like, slowly, even if it's quiet morning, you have to slowly, like, amp up the energy in the room because you're trying to get your bride to an excited point. There's obviously a lot of times a lot of stress in the morning for the brides. And so we're constantly, like, trying to balance it. And I tell all of my brides, like, my job today is not just to make you, like, look and feel good, it's to advocate for you. Because so often in a morning with that many people, it can very easily become about everyone else and what they want and what they need, and they forget to stop and think about what the bride needs that day. So I've had to clear bridal rooms and stuff like that. Like, I've literally been like, okay, it's that time of day where if you're not getting hair and makeup done, we're gonna ask everyone to leave. And I've actually had to, like, escalate sport moms out because they're almost like, refusing to leave. But a lot of times they're the ones that are causing the stress, and so I have to get them out. So you have to do it. Like, it's a very hard thing because you're constantly trying to, like, balance things. But as far as creating the timelines, honestly, I work backwards from your guys's timeline. I asked the bride what time you're getting into your gown, and let's just say it's 2 o' clock. I'm getting into my gown at 2 o' clock. I'm like, okay, are we getting ready on site or are we getting ready off site? Meaning, like, are you getting dressed where we're going to be doing hair and makeup, or are you moving over? If they're moving over, I don't care if they tell me it's a five minute drive. I'm like, you need an hour. You need minimum an hour. Because it's like herding cats. You've got to get all these people to get all their crap together to then move all their crap into a car, get everyone loaded and get cars. No, it is literally like herding cats. You Know, and then literally, you have to. Literally. And so then you have to. It's like, you know what it's like? It's like trying to get 17 toddlers out the door.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Somebody'S like, where's my shoes? Wait, where's my cell phone? I forgot my accuracy. My boobs popping out. Like, it is a whole thing. Like, the mornings are absolutely nutty. And so I tell them, then you have to get in the car, drive over, find parking, get out of the car, get everybody's stuff out of the car. Now you have to move all this stuff into the bridal suite. Then you have to set up the bridal suite, because you're gonna get all your crap in there. But now you have to, like, move it so that. That way it's out of the way. And, like, you know, if there's windows or certain areas you want to photograph, you have to make sure stuff's out of that way. It's a whole thing. And I tell brides, it's not that your hair and makeup isn't gonna hold up. You just don't want to go in feeling, like, stressed out and frantic. Like, just don't do that to yourself. So I do give a lot of buffer time in that if they are getting ready on site, then I say, what time are you getting into your gown? And I go back, depending on the photographer in the venue, 30 minutes to an hour. And that's when our end time is.

[Evie McLeod]

I love it. That's. Ironically, that is literally what we said in our episodes. We were like, usually we try to communicate with hair and makeup and our bride because there. I will say there are many hair and makeup artists that I've worked with over the years. Typically, it was in, you know, my first few years of business in a, you know, a price bracket of weddings that is probably a little bit lower. Maybe more of. Yeah. Like, the first few years for hair makeup artists as well. So, like, I want to have all sorts of grace. We all figure out so much as we're building a business. But I have experienced it where hair and makeup artists will be like, oh, you're getting into your gown at, you know, two. Perfect. Like, I'll. I'll have you done at two. And I'm like, you know, because you just need that buffer. So that's where I've communicated with brides to make sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Photos. The row photos and all of that. Yeah. Unfortunately, though, we. I've had it happen twice where the bride lied to me. Flat out lied to me. And told me the wrong time. And the photographer arrived and was like, why isn't she done? And I'm like, you mean why isn't she done? Like, I was told she needs, she's not getting into her gown until three. And they're like, no, she's getting in her gown at 2.

[Evie McLeod]

Oh my God.

[Michelle Villalobos]

And I'm like, we're like, we're just trying to finish up. I've also had, I once had a. The two first people that were supposed to go for the day. It was me and another artist that were starting the day out and it was the mother of the groom and sister of the groom. They were two hours late. No one else was there because we had a lot of times. We'll do the groom's family first because they want to go and hang out with the grooms. We do them early, they go and hang out with the groom and then they come back for touch ups if they want them. And I'm literally there. No one's there to unlock the venue. They had the code to get in. We literally started an hour and a half late because none of the other bridesmaids were there either.

[Evie McLeod]

So.

[Michelle Villalobos]

And when I finally got a hold of the bride, she was like, we had left all of our phones, we went to go do breakfast. We wanted like an unplugged breakfast. Just me and my best friends thinking that the other people were getting ready. I mean, these are the things that we've dealt with. I've had brides that decided on a whim to do a yoga class right before. And so everybody went and decided to, you know, because they just did yoga to go wash their hair and they come with like soaking wet hair. And I mean, these are all things that I, you know, it's in my timelines, it's in my emails that goes out to them a week or two before the wedding. Like dry hair. Like they know for the trial. We talk about it at the trial. Like everybody needs to come this way. So even though there's like multiple things that you're telling them, it's, it's like you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. So I can tell them all the right things. But even with all the experience that I have, there are times that I've been 30 minutes to an hour late. And it's never my fault if I'm that late.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right. Well, okay, that was a perfect transition. Because I think the part that we maybe haven't touched on, on why other than maybe bad Word choice on that reel and the podcast episode, technically, specifically, I think the reason it hit a chord and a lot of the response that we saw was in reaction to the sound bite. It was like, well, it's not our fault. It's the bridesmaid's fault. They're always running late. They have wet hair. They, like, basically a vers of what you said. And kind of. I think there. There's a conversation there of like, because we were talking, once we realized we said something that. That angered people, we were like, oh, but the irony.

[Evie McLeod]

Can I also just jump in? Yeah, the irony is that's exactly what I had meant. I phrased it so dang poorly, and I fully own up to that. And, like, I publicly apologize for the way that I phrase that.

[Lindsay Roman]

I also publicly apologize.

[Evie McLeod]

But, like, that's what I meant was like that. That time of the day, I said hair and makeup was the timeline. I didn't mean hair and makeup artists. I meant that time of the day is so chaotic. There's so many moving parts. There's so, you know, so much happening that often it just runs behind. And I didn't mean that the hair and makeup artists are to blame. They're terrible people. They're the worst vendors to work with. They're, you know, whatever. But it was like, clearly that is really a thing in the industry that does happen and that people show up with wet hair, they don't arrive at the venue, you're locked out of the venue, nobody's there. You know, things like that. So.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, we were talking and we were like, I. I don't want to discount the. Because I want to hear your opinion, Michelle. But, like, well, and even what you just said of, like, you can only deal with what you're given to a point. Like, you could prep people, you could send PDFs, you could prep them in email and all the things. Which I feel like. I know you do, and I feel like a good, like, luxury hair and makeup artist would do to prep their clients. But at the end of the day, like, things run late or people don't.

[Evie McLeod]

Listen, things are just genuinely out of your control, which we, I feel like.

[Lindsay Roman]

Also deal with as photographers, even prep people. But I. I guess, like, in the conversation of, like, the reaction to the reel that we posted accidentally, it was. It was almost like. It felt like a lot of the response was blaming the clients of, like, oh, it's never our fault. It's not our fault. It's always their fault. Of, like, the bridesmaids are always late. They have wet hair.

[Michelle Villalobos]

They're.

[Lindsay Roman]

They, you know, like, which I don't want to discount because that is a lot of what happens. But I guess where do you find the balance, Michelle, of like, as a vendor, how do you and I. You hinted at it a little bit.

[Evie McLeod]

But, like, what are the things you do.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. That you, you practically like, try to prevent that as much as possible.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Yeah. So honestly, it literally starts with their consultation call, what I just kind of explained to you of, like working backwards. My questions on my consultations are, what time is your ceremony? Are you doing a first look? What time does your bridal suite open? Are you doing a first look with dad? And. Okay. But anyway, like, I ask a bunch of questions and this is literally before they've even booked me. And then I work backwards from there because I know if we're getting ready on site, like where hair and makeup is being at the venue, like, photos are there, they're getting dressed, they're the same location. I know that if they're doing a first look, I need to have hair and makeup fully done. Like, we're talking. Everyone is done. We're like packing our stuff up and walking out the door. Three hours before, minimum of three hours before. And there's one venue that is actually four hours because even on the venue they have to take a golf cart and like, golf cart and like shuttle people down to this really beautiful, like old historic building on the property. But it's quite a bit away. And so I know these things and so I sort of done that. So it starts with a consultation call and then throughout the process there's multiple emails that go out to them talking about it. At the trial, we're sitting together, we're talking for quite a bit. I asked them, do you have any, you know, new moms? I always try to put the new moms a little later in the timeline. Do you have anybody who is infamously running late, like, things like that? I. I ask questions and actually I do send out a questionnaire about a month before the wedding. And in the notes section, I'll tell them, like, if you need somebody to go first or if you have someone who's on east coast time and they can go first because you're probably going to wake up early anyway. Let's make them first. Like, we're not trying to put like the nursing mom at 7:00am you know, with like the toddler and the nursing baby, you know. And so I really do try to build my timelines that way. And that's the other Thing that I've kind of seen in industry and it's sort of like a 50, 50 split. My timelines literally have everyone's name, who, which artists they're with. So it'll have like, there's columns and so it'll say like Michelle, Taryn, you know, whatever. Jennifer. Like just three names. Right. So yeah, for me, I'll have literally time slots of everybody who's getting their hair or makeup done with me, which service they're getting, and on my timeliness. And please arrive 30 minutes before your scheduled appointment. And the reason is, is because no one walks into a room and walks straight into my chair. They walk in, Good morning. Let's pop the bottle of champagne. Oh my gosh, I have to use the restroom. My whatever. My dress ripped, I need to iron, I need to steam, I need to serve food, I need to set up the tables. It's like always like a bunch of things that they have to do.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Michelle Villalobos]

So I do ask them to arrive 30 minutes. So there's like multiple things throughout the process that I do to set it up. But I feel like by having names, I'm also able to at that point. And it is in my contract and it is on my timelines, it says if you're more than 15 minutes late for your appointment, we have the right to refuse service. If we have time to accommodate you at the end of the timeline, we will. But if we don't, we don't. And so by having the names there, I'm actually able to hold someone accountable. So if someone shows up an hour and a half, two hours late, I'm sorry you missed your appointment.

[Evie McLeod]

Is your workflow for your clients all over the freaking place is stuff falling through the cracks and you feel so overwhelmed trying to stay on top of client communication. Don't worry, we have all been there. If that is you, you have to hear about the best investment we have ever made into our businesses. HoneyBook, a client relationship management software. It is an all in one project management tool that is designed specific specifically for creative entrepreneurs.

[Lindsay Roman]

When I tell you it streamlines everything and gives me my life back, I am not kidding. Integrated inquiry forms, client workflow and automations, contracts invoicing, calendar integration. They also have templates, brand customization abilities and an app so you can send invoices and emails while you're on the go.

[Evie McLeod]

Honeybook gives you the ability to streamline everything for an excellent client experience directly from your fingertips. So you no longer have to spend 24. 7 working working in your business and you can get back to living your.

[Lindsay Roman]

Life Instead, we promise Honeybook will revolutionize your business the way it has ours. In addition to a free seven day trial, we have an exclusive offer for our podcast listeners. 35% off the first two years. All you have to do is go to share.honeybook.comheart and claim your discount. That's share.honeybook.com heart or you can check.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Out the link in our show notes. Hello.

[Evie McLeod]

I wanted to interrupt this episode really quick to remind you that we have an apparel shop with heart filled pieces. See what we did there that we have designed with you in mind.

[Lindsay Roman]

In the shop we've got T shirts, crop tops, sweatshirts, mugs, hats and more, all created with comfy and cute designs that you can rock in your everyday life.

[Evie McLeod]

This collection is for you if you love the show and want to share it with your friends in a cool way. Or if you want to wear something cute as Heck that was intentionally designed with powerful phrases to remind you that you can do it, you were made to be a world changer and that the Lord created you wildly capable of big freaking things.

[Lindsay Roman]

Now, Obvi, this is a podcast and we can't show you how cute as heck these pieces are on the show. So run, don't walk to the heart shop to check out our apparel and more. You can head to www.theheartuniversity.com apparel to grab your favorite pieces today.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, wait, I have a question that's so good. Have you ever actually had to do that or done that, like enforced it?

[Michelle Villalobos]

Yeah, once. And it was that particular mom and daughter. Yeah. We had to say, I'm sorry, we, we don't have time. And they're like, well. And I'm like, you were two hours late. Like, you weren't. Yeah, 20 minutes. You were two hours late. Your appointment has come and gone.

[Evie McLeod]

And the end, you, they were first. It's like you couldn't start on somebody else and try to make more room for them later. It's like, no, you, this was your time and you were the start and the only person who was supposed to be here. Yeah.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Yeah. Since then we have asked, like, I will ask brides, like, try to have as many of your bridal party people come as possible. Some of them are, you know, coming from la. I'm focused predominantly in Temecula. But sometimes like I'll have a San Diego wedding and somebody's coming from Orange county and I'll say, well, like maybe that one person can come a little later in the day and we'll put her later in the day. But everyone else should kind of of be staying local to the wedding for the most part. So if we can have everyone arrive at that arrival time, like, when I'm walking in the door, you all should be walking in the door kind of a thing. And then that way there are moments where somebody's running late or some hiccup happened, and they're trying to put out a fire, you know what I mean? Before the bride even gets wind of it. And so sometimes I'm like, hey, let's just make a quick shift, you know? And so if I have people there, I'm able to do that. That. But if no one's there and they're not even there at their, like, scheduled time, there's.

[Evie McLeod]

Right.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, you literally can't do anything around.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Yeah, I can't. I can't do hair and makeup on someone who's not there.

[Evie McLeod]

So, I mean, that would be magic. Yeah.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Yeah. No, and there's been times where I've had people who were late, and I'm like, girl, we have 20 minutes to get your makeup done. I'm gonna do what I can in 20 minutes. And, you know, and that's the thing. And I think that, that, that's. There's a perception of, like, hair and makeup. We just run late, and we just don't care. And we're just, you know, lollygagging all morning and partying with the bridal party, and that's not the case. There's so many times that I've literally. There was one time I actually almost fainted at a wedding. The air conditioning went out. It was August in Temecula. This is literally in 2020. So, like, all the venues were shut down. Their air condition conditioner went out, and we were in this room that was. Just had sun coming in all morning. They hadn't even offered us water. I ran out of my water. I actually almost fainted. One of my artists had to, like, sit down with me and, like, get me a glass of water and that sort of thing. That's the thing. People don't see that we literally will do anything that we can to make up on the time, but we can only do so much. So.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Michelle Villalobos]

I mean, we love what we do.

[Evie McLeod]

That's. Yeah. And you guys are such an integral part of the day.

[Michelle Villalobos]

A.

[Evie McLeod]

A very, I think, under appreciated, but integral part of a wedding day, which I want to touch on. But almost before we go into that, like, kind of the perception, because we touched on this a little Bit in our voice. DMs Michelle of like the perception of hair and makeup in industry and different things. But before we go into that, I'm curious and I would love to hear from you on the concept because I have seen this a lot in my workings with hair and makeup artists and my clients, like the brides. I've noticed a lot of times that brides don't, or couples don't want to spend more money on a bigger hair and makeup team on the wedding day, which would allow for a little bit less faster timeline or there's, there's obstacles there of bringing in more artists or just different things that I've experienced before of them being like, no, no, no, we're just gonna, we're gonna make it work with this number of people on like this time. What's your perception of that? Cause obviously I'm very much on the outside of just observing. I've seen that come up a few times. What is your perception on the inside as somebody who has a team? Is that something that you do experience a lot? Is that something that helps the day go faster? If you, if people understood that, like, what's your perception?

[Michelle Villalobos]

Yeah, I mean, I can't speak for everyone on this because I have heard stories of like one makeup artist doing 15 faces on a day of wedding, which was like, I was mind blown. Like, if I'm doing more than six. Honestly, at my age now, like my ideal number is like four to five services. Like in a day. Like, I emotionally, physically, I haven't peed in seven hours. I haven't eaten because I got up so early. I didn't want to. Literally, like, we stuff our faces the second we leave. Like all of us talk about it like, like just stuffing our faces after wedding because we're starving. We run to the first bathroom and the first like fast food place we can find on our way home. But yeah, I mean, I can't speak to everyone on that. It's not something that, that I typically have an issue with. I'm really kind, but I'm also like, this is how I run my business. This is how we're going to do things. Because I know that it's going to make for a successful wedding day. And if I have a bride pushing back, honestly, the less artists you have and the more like the more time they're going to take. So now, like, I don't want to get 2:00am to show up at, at 4:00am like, that doesn't sound fun to me. Nor are you going to get the best version of me if I'm up.

[Evie McLeod]

At 2:00am yeah, well, neither do the bridesmaids want to be starting to get their hair and makeup done at 4am no.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Especially if they're partying until midnight or later, you know, and a lot of times even if the wedding ends at 10 or 11, they're doing an after party somewhere, you know, at a bar or whatever. An old town Temecula kind of thing. Yeah, it's not something that I really deal with a lot. I kind of look at how many services we have and I typically like to stay within like a five to six hour window is ideal. I also charge early start time fees because no one wants to start earlier. I'd rather bring on more artists and divvy up the work. Obviously we do need to make a certain amount per day for it to be beneficial for us and like advantageous financially for us. But I'm not the girl who's like trying to do, you know, 10 services in a four hour window. It's just not realistic. So I know how long each of my artists takes roughly. And then usually I'll tack on like five minutes to each service and then I tack on an extra 15 minutes for like the setting up portion of the morning and then same thing for the touch up portion of the morning. We usually only need 15 minutes and I give ourselves 30 minutes.

[Evie McLeod]

So I love that.

[Michelle Villalobos]

I don't know if that answers your question.

[Evie McLeod]

No, it did. I think that's it basic. What, what I interpreted from what you said is I, you see the value as the service provider with a team. You understand how important it is, especially depending on their expectations, how many services they're requesting, the timeline, restraints, whatever. And you're very clear that's. It seems like another thing that you do to mitigate timeline delays and the chaos of those mornings by being like, hey, I basically have to have a team there depending on, you know, how many services they're wanting and needing. Like it's one of those things that it's kind of not an option for them because it doesn't work.

[Lindsay Roman]

It's like you want six bridesmaids plus mother of the bride plus bride.

[Evie McLeod]

If you're wanting 10 services for hair and makeup and you're wanting it done within four hours and you're wanting one person there or two people there, that's. I think you're basically at the point in your business where you're like, yeah, I don't even do that anymore. I don't even offer it. That's not an option for them, which I think just shows your experience and your level of expertise, of understanding. That's not even an option for my clients, because that is not feasible. That's the stuff that can. If you're not experienced with it, that could run. If you think you can get it done. And you're like, I just might have to rush a little bit, but I can do it. That, I would assume, could run the timeline a lot later than you realize, and then everyone ends up in a pickle. But you're like, I don't even play with that anymore.

[Michelle Villalobos]

No, absolutely not. I don't think I. I ever did, because I. I mean, obviously, I'm married. I've been married for almost 19. Wait, 19 years. This year will be 19 years for a really long time. Thank you. So I know, like, I have firsthand experience of wedding. I've also had, like, friends and family get married. So I've been the bridesmaid. I've been the maid of honor. I've been the bride. And I know what that morning can look like. And I want every bride to have the morning that I had. And it was me hanging out with my best friends. We were laughing. We're having a good time. We stayed on a good timeline because, again, I have experience in the field. Yeah. And I want that for my brides. I want them to look back not just at the ceremony and the reception. I want them to look back at the morning and have this, like, really good memory of it, of things staying on time, having. I want them to stay focused on their friends. I don't want them to be stressed out about time or what time we need to finish. Let me worry about that. Let me do the things that I need to do to deal with it. We had something recently. I don't even remember exactly what happened. Oh, one of my artists got lost. We were, like, way up. There's no cell service for 30 minutes. She got lost. We couldn't get a hold of her. And I literally stopped and I looked at the bride and the groom. The groom was there, too. And I said, listen, this is not something you need to worry about. I've got it covered. We will make up the time. There's four artists already here. She only had four services. If we all have to work a little faster and stay quiet and put her head down and get to work, we'll make it work. And you know what? She ended up showing up. She ended up doing all the services she needed to do within that time again, because I pad My timeline so much. She was an hour late and she was still on time.

[Evie McLeod]

So I love it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Wow.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Most of our weddings are usually like, we're like usually 15 minutes ahead of schedule or if not like right on time.

[Evie McLeod]

So I love it.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Amazing.

[Evie McLeod]

I feel like that goes to show because what. What popped off with what I had said in that reel or that podcast that turned into a reel, I think is a reality that, that hair and makeup deals with is that timeline goes so haywire so quickly at that point in the day with people showing up, sleeping through alarms, coming with wet hair.

[Michelle Villalobos]

It's.

[Lindsay Roman]

It's almost like the, like you said, it's like the woo part of the day. It's like people, because they're just waking up, they're getting ready, they're not, I feel like from the bridesmaids and the bride perspective, they're not thinking of it as like a. Oh, okay. Like they're just having a good time and, and I feel like the good timeness and the casualness of at least their perception of it, or it could.

[Evie McLeod]

Be the opposite and be like they're super stressed out and then emotions get high and then.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right.

[Evie McLeod]

Because I did also.

[Lindsay Roman]

Because you're dealing with something that it affects your appearance.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, I think it's that. I think it's also just like the wedding day. Like, I saw a few comments on that reel of people being like, I've literally had fist fights break out between like the, the mother in law or whatever and like somebody. And I had, you know, stress.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, I think it's like, yes, they're either super relaxed or they're. There's very high stress levels.

[Lindsay Roman]

Either way, timeline is affected by both of those demeanors.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Michelle Villalobos]

I think it just either the woohoo bridal party with the champagne and let's just say that right there, champagne alone can throw a table into the ground. Like, realistically, honestly, honest, like, hand on the Bible, honest to God, if they're popping open that bottle of champagne before 12 o' clock, I know, like, stuff's going down. Stuff's going down.

[Lindsay Roman]

You're like, okay, that's an, that's an hour added to the timeline right there.

[Michelle Villalobos]

No, literally. Literally. And then there are moments when I'm like, can someone please, for the love of God, bring her a glass of champagne? She needs to take it down four notches. You know, it's just one of those things. But yeah, and I think you have, like, we've all experienced. I mean, you guys have been in this industry for a Long time, too. There's so many dynamics amongst friends and family, too. And, you know, like, the stepmom can't be in the room with the mother of the bride. Or, like, the sister is barely even talking to the bride today. Or the mother of the groom is, like, badmouthing the bride in the room. I've had that happen, girls. I have seen it all. We've had to shut down our. Like, our bridal suite because apparently someone was swinging around a gun on the property, and they had to escort the groom, the groom's brother, off the property. When marijuana became legal in California, we had girls rolling joints and smoking weed in the bridal suite. And it was part of their, like, party favor. And my bro. My. No, literally, my artist called me, and they're like, we're getting a contact high. Like, they had to sit in their car and, like, chill out for a little bit because they felt like they had gotten high from the fumes. I mean, I've had to put things in my contract that, like, you would be shocked. Shocked.

[Lindsay Roman]

Wow.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Yeah. And these are things that it's crazy because nobody thinks of, but when we start talking about our stories, we're like, holy cow. Mornings are nuts.

[Evie McLeod]

So this. This I fully. I mean, not that I didn't get it before and understand how offensive the. The verbiage, the phrasing of my. My reel was, but the more I talk to you, Michelle, the more I'm like, wow, I really, really stuck my foot in my mouth. You poor saints. On a wedding day, you get handed.

[Lindsay Roman]

The worst of humanity, quite literally. Because, I mean, everyone's the worst of humanity when they wake up, right?

[Evie McLeod]

Like, well, yeah, it's also just like we said, there's. There's just so much that comes to that time of the day. Okay, wait, Michelle, I would love to touch on. Because I know you and I touched on this in just our. Our voice, like, our. Our chit chat, like, texting chat of the perception of hair and makeup and.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, the industry between vendors.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, yeah, I'm just gonna hand that mic to you.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Well, and it's funny because I do have, like, a private group of, like, hair and makeup, and I did tell them that I was coming on, you know, today just, like, amongst us and quite a few of them. And I told them that. I actually told you, like, we're the unwanted. Like, often we're treated as the unwanted stepchild in the makeup realm or, like, in the wedding realm. And I had so many girls that, like, yes, I am the stepchild. And it's so sad. And I don't know where that came from or why, but, yeah, oftentimes, like, we're not tagged in photos. I'm like, every photo of the bride, like, if she's not carrying her bridal bouquet, like, yes, still tag the florist, but. But why am I not being tagged? Like, she looks like that.

[Lindsay Roman]

It's like, every single photo. Yeah, literally.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, literally.

[Michelle Villalobos]

And the thing is, is the way that I see it is it's not like we're the number one vendor. Like, I don't see it that way. Like, we all work collectively. But I feel like you could have the best makeup artist and have a crap photographer. Not that either of you are that, but at least the bride is going to, like, be happy with her look, and so she's going to feel confident in her photos. So they're going to make the photos a little bit better than maybe the photographer can actually put together. And also the opposite. You could have a $20,000 photographer and have crap hair and makeup. The bride is now really self conscious. She doesn't feel confident. She doesn't want to stand in front of the camera or she doesn't. She still feels confident and does it. And you guys have to deal with all the work of fixing it, you know? And so I feel like we work hand in hand with a lot of vendors, but for whatever reason. Yeah, there's this, like, oh, it's just hair and makeup and, like, we're forgotten about. And I think that's honestly the biggest part of it. Like, we're completely forgotten. Like, it's not even. People need to do it. They just don't even think about us. And I'm like, no, she looks that good because of, like.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right. Well, I wonder if it's. If people at least with, like, with tagging, which. If anyone's listening, if you're a photographer, tag your freaking hair and makeup artist. Thank you.

[Evie McLeod]

Tag your vendors.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, but I'm wondering if it's like other. Well, other vendors have, like, a prop associated with them. No, prop is maybe not the word. Like a florist, you visually see like a.

[Evie McLeod]

Like an object, something new in a. In a photo or in a moment. That would not be there.

[Lindsay Roman]

But. But. And people. Maybe it's because, like, hair and makeup is a part of a human being. And so they're like, oh, I need to tag the couple, you know, and like, we almost forget because it's like, it isn't like a. It's like you're changing Someone's appearance and it's not like an object, if that makes sense. I'm wondering that. Or because it's in the morning and oftentimes I think you guys are done by the time other vendors show up.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And it's like. But that's so sad that, that, that's like the industry perception that broke my heart.

[Evie McLeod]

Like when you, when we were chatting on voice message and you said that, I was like, that's, that's not okay.

[Lindsay Roman]

Because you're right. We could have, like a perfectly crafted photo from the art perspective. And if the bride doesn't love what she looks like, then she could hate that photo. And that's all on, like, that. Like, you guys do a phenomenal job and a phenomenal work at, like, making the bride, the bridesmaids, all the people, like, feel beautiful.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

For the rest of the day.

[Evie McLeod]

Yep.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Yeah. And it really, to me, and, and this is. Even from a personal standpoint, I've done my own makeup and not been happy with it and hired a photographer. And I was just like, you could see it in my photos. Like, I wasn't confident and it was my own fault. But if you're not confident, whether it be about, I mean, just in general about your looks, it's. It's gonna come up in photos because you're gonna hold back, you're gonna be trying to hide things. You're gonna be, you know, turning, not looking at the camera. Not what. And not that you're always looking at the camera, but you know what I mean? Like, you're not gonna be in the moment if you're worried about how you look and how you feel. And so I think, I think we're a really important part of the wedding day. And that's something I take pride in. And I feel like this whole time, like, I've been, like, complaining. And by no means is that how I feel about my career. Like, I love what I do. I. I do this because I love it. I actually was a stay at home mom. I quit doing hair and makeup for about three years. No, it was like four. And I stopped doing it. I came back to it. Not because I had to. I created this, this business because I love what I do. It is, like an artistic outlet for me. It is a part of who I am. And so by no means, like, when I'm talking about, like, all, like, the chaos of the morning, am I complaining. 99% of our brides, 99% of our mornings and our bridesmaids, we love and we enjoy but are there things that we deal with that maybe aren't the easiest? Yeah, for sure. But I think that that's can kind of be any sort of facet of life, you know, like, being a mom is great. Doesn't mean it's always easy, but it's the best thing I've ever done. And that's kind of how I feel about hair and makeup. So by no means in this am I, like, complaining about my job, because I have one of the best jobs in the world. Like, seriously, I get to make people pretty and I get to make them feel freaking amazing. And then I get pretty photos sometimes.

[Evie McLeod]

Times. Sometimes. Let's change that to all the time.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes, sometimes.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Sometimes I.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, photographers not only tag your vendors.

[Evie McLeod]

Send them the g. Yes.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's a whole other conversation we could talk about on another episode. Yeah. Michelle, I have a. Like, is there any advice that you would give, not even just to photographers, but any vendors that are wedding vendors listening to this, on how we can all support each other, but more specifically, like, how other vendors can actively support hair and makeup artists to, like, all work together to make a wedding day thrive?

[Michelle Villalobos]

Yeah, I mean, I think, like, discussing things with you, Evie. Like, there are some things that you brought to my attention that I'm like, oh, I can do these things to make the morning run better. You know what I mean? Or just make everything work better. But I think specific to that, honestly, the biggest thing as tagging. And then when you walk into a bridal suite and we're working with a bride or we're working with a client, I know that it's important for the florists and the photographers and the DJs and the thing to all talk to the brides, but especially if you're there before you're scheduled to be there, that doesn't mean that now we have to rush and now we're late. Like, that's not how that works. So I think being really aware of we're trying to do. And if we can just stay focused, we're going to be done a lot faster. And then you can have them the whole time where if you're getting them out of the chair and you're constantly calling and interrupting and doing all of these things, it pushes us back. And so just being respectful of our time, number one. And number two, tagging. I feel like just supporting all the vendors. Like, even if I don't know who the florist is, I will literally like, DM the bride and I won't post it until I Know who the florist is because the flowers were in the background of the shot, or if the officiant was, you know, not like a family member, but if it was, like, a hired officiant, like, I will send them a message and say, who is the officiant? Again, they're in the photo. So I just think being aware of that kind of stuff, being aware of our timing, which will help everyone, and then just being aware of, like, hey, we did that hair and makeup, but they look good because we did it.

[Evie McLeod]

So, yeah, that's so good. I also. I feel like in. In this conversation, I have personally felt encouraged in, because I almost feel like I've done. I have the opposite approach of, like, something. Something that can happen on wedding days, especially with photographers, of we show up early, and then we start pulling the bride into stuff. I. I am the opposite, where I'm like, if I show up early to maybe do details or to scout the venue or, you know, different things, whatever, I'm staying out of the hair and makeup, like, way. I'm letting you finish your job. Like, I do. I. Do not interrupt. This is not my time. I will, you know, whatever. But because I think that's been my focus and my approach, I've felt more encouraged in this whole conversation with you and with some other hair and makeup artists, like, friends. Like, I felt more encouraged of, hey, I. When I walk into the room, I don't just say hi to the hair and makeup. Like, I actually take a moment to be like, thank you so much for what you're doing. She looks beautiful. Like, I'm so excited for these photos I'll send. Like, almost like, acknowledging hair and makeup.

[Lindsay Roman]

Even more as, like, a vendor that's doing a job that's impacting your job. Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Cause I, like, I feel like my standard is that I go in, obviously, I say hello to the bride. If I haven't met the bridesmaids. Like, if there hasn't been a night before coverage of any sort or, you know, whatever. Like, I say hello to everyone. I introduce myself, and, you know, usually I would be like, hello to the hair and makeup artist. Like, I'm Evie. I'm a photographer. You know, nice to meet you. And then I just kind of move on. But I'm almost feeling more encouraged of, like, especially hearing that. That artists can feel so forgotten and neglected and, like, not valued by fellow vendors. It's almost more convicting for me of. I want to go out of my way to fully be like, thank you for what you're doing today, Everyone looks gorgeous. Or, you know, like, this looks incredible. I'm so excited. I looked at your work. That's one thing that I. I'm, like.

[Lindsay Roman]

Looking at what the vendors are before.

[Evie McLeod]

Sometimes I do that, sometimes I don't. But I'm like, maybe I make that a thing. Like, I've looked at your work, like, you know, last week, and it. Oh, my gosh. Like, you are so incredible at what you do. Just acknowledging, like, the fellow vendor that's working her butt off or his butt off that morning. I don't know.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Not.

[Lindsay Roman]

Not that that would be a ploy to try to, like, sneakily network, but, like, what that is honestly doing is, like, good networking.

[Evie McLeod]

Oh, I thought you were like, that's. You're. No, no, I was like, no, I'm not. To make you feel.

[Lindsay Roman]

Love the heart behind that is to. Is to lift all. All vendors and truly be, like, an awesome collaborator.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

But also by doing that, when you're.

[Evie McLeod]

A good collaborator, people want to work with you.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes, exactly.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Michelle Villalobos]

I think it's a win. Win for everybody. Like, it literally is. Yeah. But it's funny, like, you're talking about that, Evie, and, you know, I'm sitting here thinking, and I'm like, do you know how many times I'm not even talked to, like, at all? Like, I'm not even acknowledged by photographer, videographers, florists. Those are usually the vendors coordinators. They won't even talk to me. Like, it's like I'm not even there, and I'm literally like, like, working on the ride.

[Evie McLeod]

You're inches from the person they are talking to, and you're not acknowledged.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Yeah. And I usually do try to look up and say good morning if I know that it's a vendor that comes in. It's just. I don't know. It's just how I function as an adult. Like, I just. I greet people who come in the room. If there's even a mom or bridesmaid that's new, I'm like, good morning. Like, it's just kind of what I do. It's just respectful to just say hello to the people who come into the room. I don't have to have, like 20,000 words with you, but, like, good morning. Like, that sort of thing. Especially if they come in and say, like, a broad morning, I'll even say it. So, yeah, it's crazy. I didn't even realize that until you were kind of talking about it. And I'm like, dang, there's so Many times I'm literally not even spoken to. So I don't know. It's. And it's not that, like, I'm. And again, I'm not speaking for every, like, hair and makeup artist or, like, the community. I'm speaking for myself and my own experiences. But, yeah, Yeah, I just. I think we just want respect, you know, and just to be acknowledged. We love what we do and we love of working in the wedding space. Like, that's why we focus on it. There's so many other, like, things that you can do in the hair and makeup community. Doesn't have to be wedding focused. And so, yeah, I think that that's. That's an interesting thing that I just kind of realized. I'm like, wow, that's crazy.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, I think I. I wonder if a lot of, like, other fellow vendors feel similarly where I've always been. Like, I do not want to interrupt you.

[Lindsay Roman]

So you are my trans. Working to, like, not talking to them.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, because I'm like, I always say, hi. That's like my bear. Of course I'm gonna say hello. Like you said, that's the human decency, like, etiquette thing to do. Of course I'm gonna say hello to the hair and makeup artists and like, yeah, you know, nice to meet you. But usually I try to back off at that point. Like, you, girl, you are working your booty off. Like, I'm gonna step away.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

And not that I'm now saying, like, oh, I'm going to change that and talk for 10min. Like, I'm not saying that at all. It's just more of like, oh, I think by recognizing that. Yeah, literally. No, I will not. I promise. No. But I think by, like, I kind of recognized. Oh, because I value what you are doing and the time and, you know, all. Everything that you have on your plate. I try to not get in your way. And I think almost by doing that, I've contributed to that ignoring feeling of being not valued, seen, respected, because I'm like, do your. Do your thing. So even just like, two more sentences of like, oh, my gosh, everyone looks beautiful. I actually looked up your work, you know, last week, and you're incredible at what you do. I'm so excited to see, like, you know, the final look on so and so, like, Jane. I'm so excited to see it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, that doesn't take too much more time. I feel like I. Like, what would cause delays is doing something that requires either the bride to continue talking if her makeup's getting done.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Or speaking to the. The hair and makeup artist in a way that's requiring them to stop working and talk.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, totally.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Which I feel like.

[Michelle Villalobos]

And I think. I don't think, like, for myself, I'm. Again, I'm speaking for myself here. I don't need anybody to, like, come in and, like, have whole conversations with me. I think it's simple, like you said, even what you already do, just simply, like, good morning. Like, oh, my gosh, I'm so excited to, like, see her look come together that I think just a simple good morning is like, oh, yeah. I don't. I don't know. I don't. I want to say expect, but I mean, would be. I think we'd all appreciate that. Just like, good morning.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Especially if that's not happening. Like, you're gonna stand out.

[Evie McLeod]

That's just. It's just acknowledging that you're a human being, a fellow vendor. We're all on the same team at the end.

[Lindsay Roman]

We're working together to the same goal.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, it's. It's. It's the same way that I would hope to be treated by. I don't know anyone. Like, at that point, you're all working together for the same goal for the same clients. Like, let's just be kind. Let's just be a decent human.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Oh, yeah, for sure. Like, please be a decent human. But that's still, like, to everyone. Right? Like, we just need to have that conversation to humanity as a whole. But, yeah, no, I just think I lost my train of thought. I forgot what I was going to say. But anyway, I think, yeah, just being kind. We are. We're collaborators. Like, we love to collaborate. And I think that that's something that not a lot of people know about us, is that we're, like, very much, like, community oriented. As hearing makeup artists, most of us tend to be extroverts, so we, like, we want to be a part of the group, you know, and so, yeah, I think we're always trying to, you know, uplift other vendors and tag and that sort of thing. Not because necessarily we're asking. I mean, obviously we should receive it as well, but we don't do it out of that. We do it because we just. It's. We all work together to create a wedding day, and if one part falls apart, it can really affect the entire day for the bride, for the couple, for photos, for everything. And so I think it's just remembering that we are a community amongst. Amongst wedding vendors. Like, we're all here to support each other and support the couple and to create a really memorable experience for them, you know, from start to finish, from the way that they look to the way that there are photos to their florals to it. It really impacts, like, every little piece makes its own impact and its own mark, so.

[Evie McLeod]

Amen.

[Lindsay Roman]

And that's on that. Wow.

[Evie McLeod]

We're all a team. I did not make that clear. That that is my belief in my.

[Lindsay Roman]

We actively. We are here to just set the record straight. We are for vendor collaboration and vendor uplifting.

[Evie McLeod]

And I deeply respect hair and makeup. I will say this is actually like, full transparency. I have significantly deepened my respect and appreciation for hair and makeup in this conversation. So I don't want to be like, I haven't learned anything new and I haven't been humbled by, like, everything that happened. Totally have. And I've learned so much. And, like, hearing and chatting with you, Michelle, both on, like, texting, but then also now on this episode, like, I am so appreciative of the conversation that. Or conversations that have arisen from that reel and from me shoving my foot very far in my mouth.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, and thank you just for even not. Not only, like, teaching us more about your perspective and just this perspective of all the things that can happen in the morning, but also our listeners. I mean, I'm sure, you know, we all get into our own vendors, vendor, like, you know, camp, and. And we only are usually thinking and looking at things from our perspective. And so I think conversations like this are so helpful for industry vendors, even brides.

[Michelle Villalobos]

If.

[Lindsay Roman]

If people that are getting married that are listening to this, like, I think it's helpful to know from vendors perspectives of like, oh, wow, okay, that's. That's helpful to know that, like, you know, like, oh, they're. They're actively like, pick my vendors well and pick my vendors in a way that, like, makes. Makes the timeline not rush and crack.

[Evie McLeod]

A whip on my bridesmaids who are trying to show up with wet hair.

[Lindsay Roman]

All the things.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Yep, crack some whips.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right? Thank you, Michelle. Thank you for being on the show, coming on, being willing to gently humble us and just, like, clarify and share the perspective of. Obviously you don't speak for every hair and makeup artist, but I feel like a lot of people would resonate with so much of what you said today, you know, hair, makeup artists, and also just other vendors. And so thank you so much for showing up with grace and giving us grace in our loudmouth blabbing that we so often sometimes do. So thank you for being here today. We've just all. We've just been so blessed by your presence and your time that you've given us.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Well, thank you. I am super excited. I was happy to be here. I absolutely adore you guys. I'm huge followers of yours, and I will continue to follow. And I just love that you guys are of kind, constantly trying to, like, uplift the community of, you know, wedding professionals. I know specifically more photographers. But you guys are amazing. And thank you for having me on.

[Lindsay Roman]

Thank you, Michelle.

[Michelle Villalobos]

Thank you.