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The Heart & Hustle Podcast
437: How This Iconic Bachelorette Went From Reality TV Star to Romance Author with Hannah Brown
00:54:17
On this week’s episode of the Heart and Hustle Podcast we are sitting down and chatting with the amazing Hannah Brown! We dive into her transition from a reality star on the Bachelor/Bachelorette into a romance author and how she dealt with...
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- [00:00]
Evie McLeod
You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are your hosts, Evie McLeod and Lindsay Roman. Welcome back to the show, friend. We are so excited for today's guest. This is someone who I feel like has been on your podcast guest list.
- [00:13]
Lindsay Roman
For Listen, y' all. Ever since we started the podcast, this was like a name. This. She was a name that was on like dream guest list.
- [00:21]
Evie McLeod
She was a woman who was on a dream guest list. She's not a name who was on.
- [00:26]
Lindsay Roman
My personal dream guest list. And she's on the show today.
- [00:30]
Evie McLeod
Yes.
- [00:31]
Lindsay Roman
So it was a moment.
- [00:32]
Evie McLeod
If you have not already figured out her name by the title, today we get to chat with the beautiful and wonderful Hannah Brown. Hannah Brown is a television personality, lifestyle expert, and two time New York Times bestselling author. Brown's authenticity and charismatic personality have captivated her millions of followers and she continues to inspire and empower others. She is born and raised in Tuscaloosa, Alabama and currently resides in Nashville, Tennessee.
- [00:56]
Lindsay Roman
Amazing. So what we got to talk with Hannah about today is kind of like her journey from Bachelor and Bachelorette reality tv, how her life was kind of thrust into the spotlight and her journey on what that taught her in her life and especially in relationships and how that led her to writing romance novels today. And like, so we're talking about her second fiction release today, which is the Four Engagement Rings of Civil Reign. And I don't know, we talked about a lot. We talked about her writing process, how it was working with a co author. We talked about if any of her past relationships, specifically the ones on television that we got to see as an audience and as a world, influenced any specific characters in her book. Yes, the answer is that. But we'll just let you hear that from spoiler. Yeah, spoiler. She was just so candid in talking about the writing of this book, how her faith impacts writing. We talked about any future endeavors that she might be wanting to pursue after this one. And really how she put herself into this main character, Sybil, in this book. And just how kind of like the balance of like taking inspiration from things that she's done in the past and even her own life and then also kind of like, you know, putting a new fiction story out into the world. Whereas, like in the past we as a world, we've been obsessed with her and her love story and now she's getting to kind of tell love stories in a new way that's not fully attached to her. And so just the beauty of that and how she's forging new path from bachelorette to author, specifically in the romance category. So today with Hannah was incredible. I can't wait for you to hear it.
- [02:37]
Evie McLeod
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- [02:44]
Lindsay Roman
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- [03:01]
Hannah Brown
Yes.
- [03:01]
Evie McLeod
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- [03:29]
Hannah Brown
Hey.
- [03:29]
Lindsay Roman
Hey. I'm Lindsay Roman.
- [03:31]
Evie McLeod
And I'm Evie McLeod. And we are family and legacy focused serial entrepreneurs and the founders of the Hart University, a business education company with a mission to help you thrive in your business and life.
- [03:42]
Lindsay Roman
Welcome to our entrepreneur cocktail hour where business and marketing strategies meet faith, real talk and raw in life changing conversations.
- [03:48]
Evie McLeod
At the end of the day, we are all in this together, figuring out how to navigate the ups and downs, the messy and the beautiful and everything in between. This is a community where you can come as you are, get inspired and walk away equipped to build a legacy filled life.
- [04:03]
Lindsay Roman
You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. Hannah, welcome to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are beyond excited to have you today.
- [04:19]
Hannah Brown
I'm so glad to be here.
- [04:21]
Lindsay Roman
Oh my goodness. We were talking before we hit record. I'm a longtime bachelor bachelorette fan. You are by far the most iconic. And so we're just. I'm very excited. No, Evie's excited. And we're excited to like, listen and hear about your journey and where you're at now.
- [04:35]
Hannah Brown
Yeah, I love that. No, seriously, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to talk about all the things where I've been and where I am now.
- [04:45]
Lindsay Roman
Yes, I love it.
- [04:46]
Evie McLeod
Well, if you're willing, if anyone isn't super familiar with your journey, your story, are you willing to just kind of give like a super brief overview of like, who you are and 30 second synopsis? Obviously, maybe longer, where you've been, all the things. All the things.
- [05:00]
Hannah Brown
Yeah. So I'M originally from Alabama, went to school at the University of Alabama, and right out of college, I did pageants growing up. I became Miss Alabama, usa. And it kind of like took me off the track that I thought that I was going to be in, which was, like, right out of college, get my degree, but really just get married and start my life as a mom, babies. And that all didn't happen. And ended up being able to, like, have this opportunity to do this, like, fun pageant thing. And then in the midst of that, I got a random call to be on the Bachelor. And so that all kind of pivoted my life. I was on the Bachelor. Gosh, I don't even know what season that was. Colton Underwood season. And then I became The Bachelorette season 15. From there. Right after that was on Dancing with the Stars season 28 and one Amir brawl. That was amazing. And then from that, I have really just lived my life sharing it on social media and being able to have really cool, cool opportunities and got to live out a dream of writing a memoir. And now I'm on my second romance novel and really just in my author era right now, but continue to share my life. I was on another reality TV show called Special Forces, which I think is such an incredible opportunity and a really cool, I just think, show in general. And so, yeah, I am in my author era, like I said, super excited. I have my next book coming out in June called the Four Engagement Rings of Civil Reign, and just really loving this season of life. I'm also getting married in July, so we have a lot coming up in the next few months. But it's all super exciting and it's really cool to be able to see, you know, it all come full circle right now here in 2025. And, yeah, that's a little about me.
- [07:19]
Lindsay Roman
I love it. Amazing. Oh, my gosh. We love you. 2025 is your year. Let's just claim that right now.
- [07:24]
Hannah Brown
We're gonna claim it.
- [07:25]
Lindsay Roman
Amazing. Okay, we wanna get into mostly the author era conversation, but before we do, I just wanna, real quick, kind of just summarize your, like, bachelor journey since that's kind of what thrust you into the public spotlight. How do you think that experience on both Bachelor, Bachelorette, all of it and all that came with it, how do you affected your view or, I guess your experience on love and relationships in general?
- [07:51]
Hannah Brown
Yeah, I am not gonna lie. It was pretty tough. I think I was the youngest Bachelorette too, so it was like 24, 23, 24, being on those shows. And I just Kind of gone through my first, like, heart heartbreak. Really thought that I was gonna be married and all. All the things. And so going on that show, I was just like, I didn't even watch. I was more like Evie. I really didn't watch the Bachelor, Bachelorette, but I was like, this opportunity, like, just feels out of nowhere, but so should I just pursue it and, you know, if the door closes, the door closes. But I'm not, like, putting all my eggs in one basket. I really didn't. I was like, if this happens, whatever. If not, like, I got to figure out what I'm going to do anyway. Like, yeah, I have no idea. And with that, like, I think the Bachelor and Bachelorette, like, have obviously, like, worked for some people, but I think it is a hard place for most to start a relationship. And it can really feed off. If you have any myths and beliefs about love, I think it can really feed into that and make it hard to date and move forward and not have, like, some toxic beliefs about that that you have to, like, therefore learn from and grow and rewire parts of your brain. Because it's an all encompassing show that is. Is based off all the myths we have about love. And so then you start to believe those even more. And having to separate from that definitely has been challenging, and it definitely made dating after a little bit more difficult. But I wouldn't just blame all that on the show either. I had, like, some. My own little traumas and beliefs from before. It just, like, exasperated it a little bit and then made me probably a little bit jaded. So. So with relationships, I think it made it tough, but I will also always be so grateful for the opportunities and the life experience I got from the show that I am so lucky to have. So it was kind of like, yes, it was hard for, I guess, the premise of the show finding Love, but there was also some really great things that came from it, too.
- [10:26]
Evie McLeod
So cool.
- [10:27]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah.
- [10:28]
Evie McLeod
Looking back, is there anything that you feel like you would have done differently during your time on the Bachelor or the Bachelorette? That is just. Do you think everything unfolded the way it should have, or do you feel like I maybe would change this if I could go back?
- [10:45]
Hannah Brown
These questions are always interesting for me because some people look like, oh, I don't believe in, like, regrets. Like, everything happens for a reason. And I do believe everything happens for a reason. And there is, like, parts of that that, like, I can get on board because, like, there's so many life lessons that I've learned. But, yeah, there are probably things That I would change now as a 30 year old, having more wisdom and kind of just knowing more than I did now. Definitely there's, there are things that I would change. I probably would just go about it probably completely different, to be honest. Like. Yeah, I think, I think when you have the right tools of how to start a relationship, I think I didn't have any of that going in and then was thrust into the public to try to start a relationship that's just not gonna. I didn't have the skills for it. And now if I had, with having the skills, I think I would do things like the whole thing probably differently.
- [11:43]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [11:43]
Hannah Brown
I still would want to be like my authentic self and I wouldn't want to lose any of that. And that's what I really feel like people resonated with. And so like that was my authentic self then it would be different now. And so yes, my mind right now. But it led me to the path that I am to where I. I probably have the knowledge that it probably would have taken me years and years and years to actually find if I have done it the way that I did.
- [12:17]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like two things to be true at once. Like, like I could maybe have things that I would maybe change and like, oh, I don't love that. But also like it made you the woman that you are today.
- [12:26]
Hannah Brown
Yeah. And also like with those shows, it's like I could go back and try to like change it and who knows if it would even the outcome because there's a lot that's going on. So I would just probably leave it as is and continue to maybe start therapy. Like the next day.
- [12:48]
Evie McLeod
Immediate session is scheduled.
- [12:51]
Lindsay Roman
I also think some of the things that you would could maybe as like an older, wiser woman look back on, I feel like made you iconic. Sure.
- [12:59]
Hannah Brown
That that's so hard. It's like probably wouldn't have the way that I did. But that is the iconic moments for sure.
- [13:10]
Lindsay Roman
We love an iconic moment. Okay, speaking of iconic moments, you are now doing iconic things in a completely different way. You are in your author era, as you said. So I almost want like maybe like the backstory I know from all the reality shows that you did. You're like reality TV queen for a little bit there. Then you did your memoir and then you did a first fiction book and now you're releasing your second one. What was the journey though, from like Bachelorette to what brought you into your author era in general?
- [13:40]
Hannah Brown
Yeah, so like I said, doing all those shows. So you know, back to back to back. It gave me a lot of opportunities and was able to have like an agent, even know what that was. And I remember we had like our first call, like, what do you want to do? Like, what do you want this to turn into? And I was like, I don't know. Like, I don't even know what's happening.
- [14:05]
Evie McLeod
I'm trying to survive.
- [14:06]
Hannah Brown
Yeah. But I was like, what are things that you've always kind of wanted to do but didn't know if you'd have opportunity? One of the first things I said, I was like, I have always had a dream to one day write a novel. And so that was kind of like the first conversation I ever had was putting out the idea of writing a novel. And of course, my nonfiction, I call it like my Quarter Life memoir, came out from first because I had the opportunity to do that and I was learning so much about myself really quickly and kind of was able to write that from like a very raw season and that that book ended up coming out first. But I say that my book, mistakes We Never Made, that came out last year was truly like my first, like real dream come true. Because all the other things I couldn't have ever dreamt up that I've got to do.
- [15:03]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah.
- [15:05]
Hannah Brown
But, yeah, from the very beginning of, like these conversations, it was what I wanted to do. And even before that started, like sitting on my mom's kitchen counter talking to her, saying, like, I know this is crazy, but one day I think I'd really like to write a book because I've always loved reading and writing. And so it's really cool that we're here now and I'm getting to have a second stab at making this dream come true with this next book.
- [15:33]
Lindsay Roman
Oh, I love. That's amazing.
- [15:35]
Evie McLeod
Okay, tell me as someone who dreamed of writing and you loved reading and writing, like you said, there is, at least from my understanding of friends who are authors and things, there's a big gap between I, I love writing down thoughts or, you know, like scribbling little storylines or something to, oh, I'm. I'm writing a book and I have a whole narration, all the storyline, everything that goes into it. What was that experience like for you as a first time author and I guess what were some of like the obstacles or lessons learned or things that you experienced in that process?
- [16:14]
Hannah Brown
Yeah. So the first book, while it was really personal and like hard, hard conversations and having to like, dive into, like, maybe parts that I would have, you know, had kept hidden for a while, I knew the Plot points. So the whole writing process, although it was, like, super vulnerable and there were obviously trying to weave things together to come up with, like, a full message thesis of what this was going to be for people and, like, what I hope people would get out of it. Like, that had its challenges, but it was a little bit more clear because, like I said, I kind of had the roadmap because it was my life. Writing a fiction book is hard. It is really hard. Like you said, there is a big difference between writing, like, a short story in your journal and then having to figure out how to, like, bring all these plot points, how to. What even is a plot. How am I. Like, what am I trying to do here? Character development. Very, very tough. How to make someone likable, but also relatable. Like, there's a lot that goes into that, and I was so thankful for my team that really helped, that my co author, Emily Larrabee, like, she had done this for a while, and really just being able to have people who had the wisdom and knowledge to kind of help me fulfill this dream was, like, the key for me, but also, like, making sure that I was really, really involved and felt like this was mine. And that was about, like, a balance of, like, I, this is. This is mine. This is what I want to do. But also asking for help of, like, I've never done this before. So it's been a journey. And I'll say the second one's been even. Like, you know, the first felt like. Oh, my gosh. Like, it almost felt it was hard. I'm not. Don't get me wrong, it was hard. Very hard. But trying to do it again.
- [18:22]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [18:22]
Hannah Brown
Has been. Had its own on. Wait. Oh, my gosh. I can't talk. Own set of challenges.
- [18:29]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah, totally.
- [18:31]
Hannah Brown
But, yeah, it's very different. And it takes a lot of work and rewrite, especially this second one. Like, lots of rewriting and getting stuck and figuring out how to push through and. But yeah, it's been also just something that's been really fun and challenging, but, like, in a good way. Stretching in a good way, but definitely, like, a big bite to you.
- [18:59]
Lindsay Roman
Totally. Oh, my. Well, I will. I will say I've read both of them and I. The. The one that's coming out, the Four Engagement Rings of Civil Rain. It is phenomenal. Like, it is very well done. And you mentioned something. I don't know how many people have read it at this point, because we're doing this.
- [19:14]
Evie McLeod
We got an early.
- [19:15]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah, we get. We got an early thing, but, like, I so excited for people to read it. You mentioned something about your co author. How does that work? Like, with. When you have a team like that that's helping you, what is the dynamics between, I guess, your relationship in writing? Like, does that make sense? Like, is it truly like 5050 or how does that interplay when you're creating a book?
- [19:36]
Hannah Brown
It's, it's. There's. There's parts that it's like I'm doing more heavy lifting and then parts where they're doing more. Like, especially when it comes to structure, I'm one of the least organized people I know and I can barely finish a sentence myself. So trying to keep a whole work body of work together and organize and not like missing chunks of things. Definitely. Like, I have to lean on help for that because that's the own. My own case in my. My writing, but also my head. So there are parts where that I have to lean on Emily more and then there are the, like, bigger creative parts. Like, that is where I really am. The one in the driver's seat and making the final decisions, obviously, is me. But when it comes to structure and making sure that those through lines are there, I'm so thankful to have somebody else that we can go back and forth. It's a lot of. It's a lot of zooming.
- [20:41]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah.
- [20:42]
Hannah Brown
Of zooms. It's a lot of even I feel like sometimes like, more rewrites because you're working back and forth so much.
- [20:52]
Lindsay Roman
But.
- [20:53]
Hannah Brown
I couldn't do it without them. So, you know, it might make it a little bit harder in some areas and then easier in others because you kind of have somebody that is kind of pulling you along and helping guide and be like, hey, this isn't going to work because X, Y and Z, like, really having that collaboration is great. But then there are things about it that can make it, in a different ways, time consuming and challenging.
- [21:17]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah.
- [21:17]
Evie McLeod
You have two brains working on something who at times may have different opinions on how things should go, and you're trying to sort it out.
- [21:25]
Hannah Brown
The writing structure, like, the sentence structure, like, you have to really like, okay, how can we take both of our minds and we are writing as Sybil or Emma. So, like taking ourselves. We had to put ourselves in, but then also taking ourselves out and making sure that we're. We're both being the same.
- [21:44]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah.
- [21:44]
Evie McLeod
Right.
- [21:46]
Hannah Brown
Is hard, but it's been great. I'm really grateful.
- [21:50]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [21:50]
Lindsay Roman
That's awesome.
- [21:51]
Evie McLeod
I love that. Okay. Is there, as you said, putting yourself into stories, but then taking yourself out I would love to hear is. Has there been any influence from your own, like, relationships or even experiences with the Bachelor, the Bachelorette, that you feel, like, have been woven into aspects of your novels or have you, like, completely separated?
- [22:13]
Lindsay Roman
Especially. Especially this one because she. The. The entire. Not to give it spoilers.
- [22:18]
Hannah Brown
I'm giving it.
- [22:19]
Lindsay Roman
Okay, but, like, the four engagement rings of Civil Rain, like, there's clearly four, you know, stories or, you know, like, so, like, there's many, like, interactions with different men. Clearly. And, like, oh, who do we know that has had many interactions with different men.
- [22:36]
Hannah Brown
Yeah. So I think my vulnerability and authenticity is, like, what people connect to and really taking on a creative project like this, for me, at least, I don't know how to not draw off my own feelings. Maybe I haven't had this exact experience that my main character, Sybil, is having, but I have had her same feelings of not feeling good enough or doubt or insecurities and feeling like people have to rely on her to be in a, you know, this certain way. Like, I really pull from certain experiences where I felt that way. And then, of course, like, the different characters, like, come from different experiences that I've had inside some way. Like, I can't. I can't say that it's like, oh, my gosh, this character is definitely this person.
- [23:33]
Evie McLeod
Right.
- [23:33]
Hannah Brown
I feel that way about Sybil and myself, but I do draw off inspiration and especially, like, feelings or that have been. That have, like, stirred up in me and, like, why those feelings made me react certain ways. Like, that is where I really draw my inspiration from.
- [23:52]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [23:53]
Hannah Brown
But I also want to detach myself from it, too, because I have lived my love stories out for my own personal love story out for a lot of people, and even now with my fiance, Adam. But. And I've loved being able to share that. But I would. I have also loved being able to give other love stories for people to love and be invested in as well. And obviously, there are parts of myself in that, but it is uniquely its own thing.
- [24:27]
Lindsay Roman
That's awesome. Yeah. No, I. Yeah, that's. I love that you said that. That's. It's like you told love stories yourself in. In a certain way, like, growing up in the. In the limelight or. I mean, not growing up, but. Well, yeah, growing up and experiencing those things. But then it's like you're transitioning to, like, telling love stories in a different way, which is really cool. Yeah, that's awesome. I also. I definitely. I definitely. I could see some influences in specific people in this book, and that's all I will say. I was getting vibes. Read the book, guys. If you follow Hannah's journey, I feel like. Like we could. We could see. Maybe. I don't know. Maybe I'm projecting.
- [25:03]
Hannah Brown
No, I. I definitely think that. That there are certain vibes in my past relationships that people have been able to watch. Those vibes are vibing with some of the characters.
- [25:27]
Lindsay Roman
I will take that. Yes, the vibes are vibing. We. We love that.
- [25:33]
Hannah Brown
Not like the same, but I'm definitely lightly inspired. Light, lightly.
- [25:40]
Lindsay Roman
Just like a little sprinkle. We love that. Oh, my goodness. Okay, wait. Which romantic tropes do you find yourself drawing to writing about and why? I. I asked this because I feel like both your first book and the second one are almost second chance romance. I feel like. Like both of them are. Yeah, that's not a spoiler to say, right? I feel like that's.
- [25:59]
Hannah Brown
I don't think so. I think I definitely love a Second Chance romance because of probably what we kind of talked about earlier. Like, the person that you are, you know, even like me five years, six years ago versus now is very different. And. And what can happen in a relationship as you grow and change. Like, I believe in growth into people being able to, if they meet at the right time. Like, being able to have that opportunity to see if there is opportunity to grow as new. Like, not in the same relationship, in a different relationship. So I just. I like it. Some people hate Second Chance romance because they think it's just like, once you're done, you're done. I agree. Like, you have to be done with that type of relationship.
- [26:56]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [26:57]
Hannah Brown
There has to be a chunk in the middle where there's, like, significant growth from both people doing vastly different things and showing up very differently for, I think, a second chance to really work. So, yeah, I love a second chance. And I feel like, I guess I have done that use that trope in.
- [27:21]
Lindsay Roman
Both, but I feel like specifically with this one, I felt, like, so connected. I also loved reading them in order, like, almost back to back Loki. Because I was like, oh, now we know what happened in the first one that we didn't like. I was like, oh, it's like it was like a. A world that was interconnected that, like, unlocked. But I feel like the way you wrote it, it gave such depth to that main relationship in the second. I don't want to give away names just in case that gives away. I feel like that could give away a plot point. But, like, Sybil and. And the second chance that she Has. I feel like they have history and it's like you can almost make the relationship deeper in that way because you're writing from a place and I feel like you balance flashbacks with like the present day really well, in a sense that gave just, I guess more depth, you know what I'm saying? Like.
- [28:12]
Evie McLeod
Like you're starting almost with a history already there in some ways that you don't always build from scratch and they just bump into each other randomly and then you're.
- [28:19]
Lindsay Roman
And then you're. Yeah, you're building a relationship. Yeah, from that moment on.
- [28:23]
Hannah Brown
Yeah, for sure. I have used flashbacks in both of my books too. I think especially when you're doing a second Chance, that just maybe it's. I mean, that was the only way that I kind of could see like bringing back like the history. But like trying to manage that is definitely challenging too. But yeah, I think like, sometimes we can see a relationship as one way and really not know the underbelly of what's going on and being able to create that depth and really see the character more and not just like Sybil is very life of the party fun, like the sparkle. But then to like really understand like why she feels she has to be that way and like what's actually going on and how that affects her relationship. It just gives more context to like why things maybe did go wrong in the past and if. And as she's going on that self discovery of herself, like how she can change that. Yeah, yeah. I just, I love being able to do that because I think we all kind of have that story within ourselves too, you know, like, something can go really wrong, a relationship can go wrong, business can go wrong. But it's like, what do we do after that and how can we. If we have the opportunity to experience love again or go after another dream, like, what's going to make that different? And being able to explore that with Sybil was really awesome because she had to like, be honest with herself and be honest with her partner in a way that they didn't really have the tools and, and space to do, I think before because they're just living their life, their lives, and not like taking those moments. And yeah, it caught up with her in a way that was unfortunate when she decided to, you know, ended up not going through with her wedding. I think I can say that it's in the, in the storyline of the first book and the ramifications of that, but also the rebirth of who Sybil was in that too, I think was really fun to dive into and kind of gave me peace within myself too, because I really resonate with Sybil in a lot of ways. One thing that was, like, really hard in writing Sybil. Sorry, I'm just like, no, no, we.
- [31:00]
Evie McLeod
Want to hear this. Also, I was going to ask about this and your personal connection to Sybil, if there was. Or her story. So this is perfect. Continue.
- [31:06]
Hannah Brown
Yeah, like, Sybil was hard because I really relate to Sybil. I also, like, drew a lot of inspiration from one of my best friends. From her. The parts of us that are very similar that can be a little all over the place and just a little messy. She is more of, like, a messy character. And what was really tough is making her, like, like, not, like, I think she's very likable. I thought. I, I. But like, working with a co author who maybe doesn't have as much of that side, it was really. That's like, when you're talking about, like, having different opinions. Like, I fought for Sybil so much and really had to get in the weeds of, like, okay, how do we continue to make her messy but also rootable? And, like, yeah, see the side of her that you're like, oh, she's just not getting this thing. Like, she's really got to have this breakthrough. And I feel like that's been me a lot of my times. Like, the messy can be really fun and, like, can be iconic and can be, like, entertaining. But it can be really hard in actual relationships, friendships and romantic partners when you haven't really dug through, like, why it's always so messy. And how can we find that peace? How can we find, like, some, I don't know, growth in it all? So it was. That was like a kind of like a challenging thing that I feel like we. We got to. But I just was like, she's actually awesome.
- [32:53]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [32:53]
Hannah Brown
She's just got some stuff we gotta work through, and we get to go on that journey together for her to. For her to get there.
- [32:59]
Lindsay Roman
Well, I feel like she reads likable. Like you said. Like, she's messy, but in, like, a fun, chaotic way.
- [33:03]
Evie McLeod
Yeah. You also probably resonate very much with.
- [33:06]
Lindsay Roman
What do you mean?
- [33:07]
Evie McLeod
I'm not. I'm not calling you messy, but I am.
- [33:10]
Lindsay Roman
Of the two of us, for sure, I am more chaotic.
- [33:13]
Evie McLeod
We both are.
- [33:14]
Lindsay Roman
But she was more chaotic than me. Maybe. I don't know.
- [33:18]
Evie McLeod
Okay.
- [33:20]
Hannah Brown
Yeah, I would think maybe not. I don't know your story. Tell me, then we can write about it.
- [33:27]
Evie McLeod
Okay. I love it. Tell me and we can write about it.
- [33:30]
Lindsay Roman
That's amazing.
- [33:32]
Evie McLeod
I love it so much. If you are loving what you're hearing on today's episode, then we wanted to share something else you might love the Heart Shop. It's our digital resource online shop for creative entrepreneurs. The Heart Shop is your one stop shop for all of our online courses, luxury website templates, PDF guides, social media, graphic templates and illustrations.
- [33:56]
Lindsay Roman
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Evie McLeod
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- [34:46]
Lindsay Roman
Evie and I have been using Primally Pure for our skincare for a couple of years now and we are legit in love. Like we love that every product has minimal, safe, all natural ingredients that I'm not joking, smell divine and make our skin look and feel healthy and beautiful.
- [35:01]
Evie McLeod
Yes, some of our favorite products that we've used from primarily Pure are their charcoal deodorant, the cleansing oil, their lavender complexion mist and their clarity serum. Like every freaking product of theirs. We're not kidding. Knocks it out of the park as far as quality and making our skin feel incredible.
- [35:17]
Lindsay Roman
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- [35:31]
Evie McLeod
Do you, I'm curious, do you see yourself? Cause you obviously were like, oh, it almost seemed like you had a moment as we were talking of being aware that there were almost second chance romances in both books. Is that something that you're like, I just love this like plot so much. I plan to continue even if it's not like all of my books contain this, like, I plan to continue that plot, or is this something that you're like, I have no idea. I'm. Other plots. I. You know, I love variety. Can I ask that?
- [35:59]
Hannah Brown
No. I've always known. I like second chance tropes, but I was like, okay, Hannah, let me think about this. Is there any other tropes here that I can, like, say? But, yeah, I, like, I feel like, especially for the first two books, those just made the most sense, and that's what I enjoy. But I would definitely like to dive into something different, and I have some ideas for, you know, maybe, hopefully, future projects that are gonna steer away from not always being a second chance trope. But I love it. It's what I like to pick up and read. And so it's what I'm writing about.
- [36:37]
Lindsay Roman
We love it. Well, and I feel like even though both books technically have the same trope, they read because the plot is just, like, wildly different. They read so differently. Like, it doesn't feel in any way, shape, or form like the same book with a different font. Like, it's very different.
- [36:52]
Hannah Brown
I think so, too. It's just. Just. I just like those types of love stories where people kind of. I. I think Second chance, like I said, just allows there to be, like, growth in the middle, and you get to see the person in a different light. And totally. That's kind of, like I said, like, resonates with how I feel.
- [37:08]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [37:08]
Hannah Brown
In my own life. Like, I want to be seen in a different life, and I want to have that growth and opportunity to change.
- [37:15]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah, totally.
- [37:16]
Evie McLeod
I love it. My husband and I are a second chance romance.
- [37:18]
Lindsay Roman
You are?
- [37:19]
Hannah Brown
Yeah.
- [37:20]
Evie McLeod
So I love the plot. It's a great plot.
- [37:22]
Hannah Brown
Yeah.
- [37:23]
Evie McLeod
Forget, like, it's my favorite plot.
- [37:24]
Lindsay Roman
I forget, like, to apply, like, romance, like, the wording of romantic tropes to, like, real life.
- [37:28]
Evie McLeod
That's, like, our romance.
- [37:29]
Lindsay Roman
That's our only second chance romance.
- [37:31]
Evie McLeod
Yeah. We dated for, like, nine months to a year, Broke up very, like, this is not where God has us or what we're supposed to be doing. Thought we were done for good. And then literally, God, like, randomly brought us together, like, a year and a half later, and now we're married.
- [37:45]
Lindsay Roman
I love that.
- [37:46]
Evie McLeod
It's lovely.
- [37:47]
Lindsay Roman
I don't know if there's a trope attached to my love story. My husband proposed to me the day that he met me, but it was for a video. Well, it wasn't for real. It was like, no, she's like.
- [37:57]
Evie McLeod
It.
- [37:57]
Lindsay Roman
Was for a video scavenger hunt. And so, like, in college, we were on the same team and, like, one of the items to video as the scavenger hunt was like a public proposal.
- [38:07]
Evie McLeod
Right.
- [38:07]
Lindsay Roman
And we were the two people in our group to get chosen for that. And then we were just like, friends for years after that. And then when we started dating, I was like, oh, that's how we met, bro.
- [38:15]
Evie McLeod
God.
- [38:16]
Lindsay Roman
Was so cool.
- [38:17]
Hannah Brown
That is cool and so fun.
- [38:20]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah.
- [38:21]
Evie McLeod
So we're big. We love romance.
- [38:23]
Lindsay Roman
We do.
- [38:23]
Evie McLeod
We love love stories and all the things. So it's really fun seeing you exploring that and sharing it with the world and the life and the, I don't know, the personal touches that you're infusing in your characters, I think is really cool and really powerful. Is there anything in all of that in writing, I guess, that you're like, I. I want all of my books, whether it's different lessons or like, whatever, like, there's a mission or a heart behind. Like, I want people to hear things, learn things, experience things, expand mindsets. Like, is that a heart or a mission behind writing as well?
- [39:02]
Hannah Brown
Yeah, I definitely, like, I've always wanted the books that I've written to, like, have depth and meaning behind them. With the first book, there was a lot of, like, Emma having to go back to her past and her relationship with her father and being able to kind of make amends with that in her own way and having that realization, like, something, like, deeper. Because those deeper beliefs that we have that were kind of instilled in us as, you know, children or pivotal moments in our life, like, can really wreak havoc on how we show up in relationships. And so, like, really diving into the depth of kind of, like, why it is we keep doing the thing that we. We know that we shouldn't be doing, but we don't know exactly why it is. Like, that's really important because I think that's something that's really relatable for everyone and for Sybil. Like, she. She has, like, some medical stuff that's been going on that she's allowed to define her and relationships in her past of how she was defined, like, really not allow her to show up as new and step into another season of our life or fear of her past. And so really having to have her, like, really untangle that for herself and go on that journey of kind of self discovery like this. This book, I think, really dives more into, like, she has the time and space to be like, why they. Am I continuing to find myself in these situations?
- [40:48]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah.
- [40:49]
Hannah Brown
And getting to the heart of that is something that is really important to me in. In every book that I do because that's what really makes it relatable. That's what makes us be able to reflect. And even that, I think romance, like, the genre of romance is escapism, and we want it to be quick and easy. Like, I do think it's important, or at least for me, it's important for there to be, like, actual depth and something that we can walk away from feeling inspired by, see ourselves in. In a real way.
- [41:21]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah.
- [41:21]
Evie McLeod
So good.
- [41:22]
Lindsay Roman
That is so good. Especially, like, yeah, like you said, the romance genre, typically, not. Not every romance book, but it typically, like, focuses on, just like you said it just so well, like, escapism, just, like, the cotton candy, like, vibes. And I love that, like, even both books, you put, like, heart into them and just, like, depth, like you said. I feel like this also kind of relates a little bit, but you've very much been, like, vocal about your faith growing, like, ever since you were in the. In the public eye. And I'm curious, as, like, a Christian who's also in, like, the contemporary romance category, it's not like you're writing, like, Christian books necessarily, but it's like, does your faith impact your writing at all? Or, like, impact maybe more of, like, that deeper meaning or takeaway from your stories? Because I feel like I believe that, like, just because we're believers, like, in any art that we're making or story or we're telling, it doesn't have to, like, have, like, the Christian, like, category or genre on it to be able to impact people in a specific way. So I was curious what your thoughts were on that.
- [42:25]
Hannah Brown
Yeah, I really have struggled with that, to be honest, sometimes of, like.
- [42:31]
Lindsay Roman
How.
- [42:31]
Hannah Brown
Do you navigate your faith in a culture that is not always accepting or can feel, like, really uncomfortable with it? And it has been a challenge. How do you infuse those things that are really important for myself in a way that's not just shoving Jesus down people's throats who just don't want. It can be hard. But I feel like, as I said, like, being authentic to myself and writing from a place of truth. Like, I hope that that. That is infused in some way. But, yeah, we're called to, like, go out to the world and love people and have. Share compassion and kindness. And I. I hope that those things are reflected in my books, regardless if it's, you know, writing fully in the Christian space or writing in a more contemporary sector as I am now. That is my hope. But it can Be tricky, truly, when you're working with, like, different markets and things, it can be really tough. So I'm still trying to navigate that myself and trying to stay true to my. To. To what I believe. But it can always have its challenges. But I'm. I'm trying. I'm trying my best.
- [43:58]
Lindsay Roman
We love. We love the honesty, though. Like, the vulnerability to be like, hey, I'm working on that. Like, I. I feel like that's figuring it out.
- [44:05]
Evie McLeod
Because life doesn't come with a.
- [44:08]
Lindsay Roman
Well, if you look at.
- [44:10]
Evie McLeod
Here's exactly what to do as a believer writing fiction.
- [44:13]
Lindsay Roman
Well, a believer in any, like, any cultural. Any job, any cultural space in the world. It's like, how do you.
- [44:22]
Evie McLeod
Well, I say that. I'm like, it doesn't come with an operator's manual. I'm like, well, we do have the Bible, which basically. So I'm like, I take that back.
- [44:29]
Hannah Brown
Yeah, sometimes is the hard part.
- [44:34]
Evie McLeod
Yes.
- [44:35]
Hannah Brown
But, yeah, this is actually the first time the past, you know, since January, like, reading the Bible, like, fully through, and it has given me so much compassion and grace for. For myself too, in it. Because, like, you read the Old Testament and the Israelites literally had the presence of God with them, and they still continued to grumble and turn away and turn away.
- [45:03]
Lindsay Roman
And.
- [45:06]
Hannah Brown
I, Even though, like, I am so trying to pursue and I don't want to be that. There are moments where, like, I get it wrong and thank goodness that there's grace for me to decide to do different and change. And that is. I'm learning as I go right now and as I have projects and I think as my heart posture continues to change, so will the things that I do. But I know that God's made me where I'm at now, and I love it.
- [45:35]
Lindsay Roman
That's awesome.
- [45:36]
Evie McLeod
God is so cool. It's really cool in, like, you said, like, even reading the Old Testament, something that you would think like, oh, I can't relate to these people who lived thousands of years ago and, you know, blah, blah, blah, whatever. It's very easy to be like, oh, that's old stuff. And then you start reading it and God just reveals himself and the Holy Spirit moves and you're like, oh, my gosh, this is, like, impacting me deeply reading this. And I can relate and resonate and feel encouraged and convicted and, you know, healed and challenged all at the same time in the Word, which is really cool.
- [46:11]
Hannah Brown
It's been so honestly, like, who. Who knew I was going to learn so much from Exodus? Leviticus.
- [46:19]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah. I mean, truly I feel like growing up, you're taught that those are just maybe not taught. You're just like. You're like, that's. I'm just gonna skip all that. That's the boring stuff. I'm like, no, there's some juice in there.
- [46:30]
Hannah Brown
Yeah. Some depth.
- [46:32]
Evie McLeod
Yes.
- [46:33]
Lindsay Roman
Oh, my goodness.
- [46:34]
Evie McLeod
I love it. What? Hannah, I'm curious. In all of this, you have grown. Like you said, you've grown so much in the last six years in a lot of stepping into the limelight with the Bachelor, Bachelorette, and then kind of almost pivoting, creating your own life story, your own career, and all of this. What would you say to the listener today who is kind of in a place of wanting to forge a new path and almost break out of a mold of what they've been known for? You know, people have said of them or whatever, they're wanting to do something different and forge a new path. What would you say to that person?
- [47:18]
Hannah Brown
I would say, typically, like, being stuck like, that you're letting fear be the driver. And I wouldn't say that that fear has completely ever gone away from me at this season, but I just have tried to do it scared, and that has been, like, the big, the best thing. Like, there's so many things. I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm gonna just, like, step into it and believe that, like, it'll all work out or I'll learn something from any of. And that would be, like. My biggest advice is just like. Like, do it scared. You have to try. You have to trust God. In the. In those moments that I would say, there have been moments where maybe I look back, I'm like, oh, that wasn't the right way or what wasn't the right answer. But God uses all the wrong ways and all the wrong answers that you have for his good. So go for it. And definitely, like, seek counsel and have people in your life that you can talk to about, like, your fears and your doubts, but also your desires. And, like, that is so, so important, but also, like, you have to do it. You have to take action even when it feels hard, because that's where, like, the best things happen.
- [48:41]
Lindsay Roman
Well, and I feel like you going from, like, bachelorette to, like, romance author, I feel like that's never been done before. If it has, I don't know about it. And I'm like, you're just a great example of, like, charging new path. And so, like, for anybody that's listening that, you know, has a dream and Wants to do something that might be completely different than what you've done before or could be just a new venture. I feel like you're just like a great role model in that way of just like, wow, like she had the dream to write and she's doing it. Like, look at her go. And it's phenomenal. Like, it's so cool to see. This is also maybe a tea filled question. I feel like I heard somewhere that your contract was for two books. But listen, there's like a core four in these books that I'm just like, are we, Are we? What about Nikki and Willow? I have questions. Or like, are you working on a new book? Can we ask that? Can you answer that?
- [49:37]
Hannah Brown
I don't know. I'll have to ask Taylor after I answer if it's okay. But yeah, I. But really the idea of these books came from my desire to like talk about female friendships and the power of having that counsel and people in your life that. I think female friendships are some of the greatest love stories that we get to experience as women. Like how there are women in your life that are there for you and the highs and lows and the love and loss and so. So I would love the opportunity to share Willow and Nikki's own love story and how Emma and Sybil are kind of intertwined in that and how they help each other and how they're there for each other at different parts of their lives. So that would be a really awesome thing to be able to do one day, you know, another dream. Like, obviously I come from TV and, and would love to be able to share these stories in a bigger way. I sometimes, you know, who knows? But like, that is like a goal of mine. I like to speak it out into existence because we love that, you know, if it doesn't happen, whatever, movie, movie, movie. I think that there is a lot these stories can have bigger impact and that's writing more or expanding on what we already have.
- [51:07]
Evie McLeod
So that's amazing.
- [51:09]
Lindsay Roman
Okay, wait, this question is not on my notes, but I know you're a swiftie. I'm also a swiftie. And when I, when reading this book, I had a very specific Taylor Swift song. And I'm curious if there was one Taylor Swift song to describe the four engagement rings of civil reign. What would.
- [51:25]
Evie McLeod
Oh my God, you're like putting her on the sweet.
- [51:30]
Hannah Brown
I'm like, I need to think about that because I get asked a lot. People know that I'm a Swiftie, but I didn't really have that in mind as I was writing.
- [51:41]
Lindsay Roman
Can I tell you the one that I was thinking of?
- [51:43]
Hannah Brown
I would love to know.
- [51:45]
Lindsay Roman
I was thinking of the bolter because I think that, I think it was because when I was reading it that you use that word and I was.
- [51:51]
Hannah Brown
Like, oh well, we might have to use it. We might have to use it.
- [51:56]
Lindsay Roman
You think about that though.
- [51:58]
Hannah Brown
I know probably it's a pretty spot on but you know, we'll try to get some creative other answers. But if you hear me saying that it was from my own head, yeah, it was.
- [52:11]
Lindsay Roman
It was totally fun. You can take credit for that.
- [52:14]
Evie McLeod
I love it. It's so fun. Okay. For anyone who is currently listening to this who is like, I haven't read this book yet. I am dying to read it. Where can they purchase, where can they read previous books of yours? Your memoir, all the things and kind of learn and, and grow along with you on your author era journey.
- [52:34]
Hannah Brown
Yeah. So you can follow me on social media. Hannah Brown on I think that's my TikTok. I'm not sure but my Instagram I've been, I'm constantly sharing updates on my life and with the books. But you can go ahead and pre order now. The Four Engagement Rings of Civil Reign. It'll be out in late June 2024 and then I mean 2025. Oh my gosh, I've done it.
- [53:00]
Evie McLeod
I've done it all. All year, the last three months. Philia.
- [53:04]
Hannah Brown
I wrote in my day 2024. I'm like, Hannah, we are. And then so yes, book is coming out June 24, I believe. 2025. And then the mistakes we never made. My first book you can pick up wherever books are sold and also we have a paperback version that's out that has the first chapter of the Four Engagement Rings of Civil Reign. So you can kind of get a little teaser of that. But so excited about this next book and would love for everyone to check it out.
- [53:42]
Lindsay Roman
Amazing. It is so good. I just. People need to read it. Thank you Hannah for being here. You are just a joy to talk to. It was wonderful to finally meet you virtually and I can't wait for our listeners to just get to know you as well if they don't already and just enter your your or like see you in your author era and experience that. Cuz it's so cool to watch.
- [54:02]
Hannah Brown
Yeah. Thank you so much. I appreciate y' all.