438: Evie’s Pregnancy Journey Part 1 - A Story of Growing with Grace

Summary

The Heart & Hustle Podcast: Episode 438 Summary

Title: Evie’s Pregnancy Journey Part 1 - A Story of Growing with Grace
Hosts: Evie McLeod & Lindsay Roman
Release Date: June 24, 2025

---

Introduction

In this deeply personal episode of The Heart & Hustle Podcast, host Lindsay Roman interviews co-host Evie McLeod as she shares her heartfelt journey toward motherhood. Evie opens up about her aspirations, experiences with pregnancy, and the profound challenges she has faced, providing listeners with an inspiring narrative of resilience and faith.

---

Evie's Desire for Motherhood

From a young age, Evie felt a strong calling to be a wife and mother. Raised in a homeschooling, conservative family, she always envisioned marrying at 19 and having her first child by 20. Although she married slightly later at 23, her desire for motherhood remained steadfast.

Evie McLeod [04:17]: "I have always longed and felt a calling to be a wife and a mother. I felt that is one of God's biggest calls on my life."

---

First Pregnancy and Miscarriage

About a year and a half into her marriage, Evie and her husband Landon decided to try for their first child. Surprisingly, Evie conceived within two months, catching them off guard as they had not been actively trying.

Evie McLeod [06:05]: "We conceived within, like, I think it was two months. It was a wild story."

Tragically, around seven and a half weeks into the pregnancy, Evie experienced a miscarriage. This loss came on the heels of buying a new home and facing a house flood from Tropical Storm Nicole, compounding their grief and uncertainty.

Evie McLeod [07:46]: "We found out we were pregnant, our house flooded, and then we lost the baby—all within two or three weeks. It was brutal."

---

Life Challenges During Second Pregnancy

The subsequent period was tumultuous. Evie and Landon relocated to Ohio temporarily while awaiting insurance claims and dealing with extensive house renovations due to flood damage. Financial uncertainty and the pressure of rebuilding their lives led them to decide to postpone having another child until they felt more settled.

Evie McLeod [09:29]: "Our life was so up in the air. We decided to wait another year, year and a half before trying again."

---

Seeking Answers and Medical Intervention

In the summer of 2024, Evie and Landon began trying for a second pregnancy. Upon conceiving, Evie connected with her midwife to discuss previous losses. Despite reassurances that her chances of another miscarriage were low, Evie remained vigilant and proactive in seeking medical explanations after experiencing symptoms similar to her first pregnancy.

Evie McLeod [14:10]: "I knew the chances of having two consecutive miscarriages are incredibly low, so I initially didn’t pursue extensive testing."

However, when Evie noticed a sudden drop in pregnancy symptoms at nine weeks, she underwent an ultrasound that confirmed another miscarriage. The emotional impact was profound, as they felt immense peace about this pregnancy, making the loss even more unexpected and heartbreaking.

Evie McLeod [18:19]: "We both felt so much peace on the pregnancy. Losing the baby was really hard because we didn't see it coming."

---

Faith and Overcoming Fear

Throughout her journey, Evie's faith played a crucial role in coping with grief and uncertainty. After the second loss, she immersed herself in scripture, finding comfort and strength in Psalms and other biblical passages. This spiritual awakening deepened her relationship with God, helping her navigate the emotional turmoil.

Evie McLeod [65:31]: "Psalm 23 was huge. There was a whole God story... He restores my soul."

Evie emphasizes the importance of trusting in God's promises while also taking proactive steps to understand and address medical concerns. Her journey illustrates a balance between faith and the pursuit of practical solutions.

Evie McLeod [72:20]: "He will protect me and this baby because I know his name."

---

Partnering with a Specialized Doctor

Determined to prevent another miscarriage, Evie sought out a naturopathic reproductive (Napro) physician specializing in miscarriage prevention. Through detailed hormone testing and personalized treatment plans, Evie was able to identify and address her low progesterone levels—a critical factor in sustaining her pregnancy.

Evie McLeod [60:15]: "Progesterone dropped significantly and should not be doing that. It was almost dangerously low."

Her proactive approach and collaboration with her Napro doctor were pivotal in nurturing her third pregnancy toward a hopeful outcome.

Evie McLeod [62:37]: "My Napro was just very proactive and comforting to have someone like that after two losses."

---

Conclusion

Evie's story is a testament to enduring faith, proactive health management, and the unyielding hope that defines her journey toward motherhood. As she continues to navigate her third pregnancy, her experiences offer invaluable insights and encouragement to listeners facing similar struggles.

Evie McLeod [87:25]: "I want to be so locked in with the Lord that even when crap hits the fan... I will choose to turn to the Lord and say, how can I turn this into beauty in my life and for those around me."

Stay tuned for Part 2 of Evie’s Pregnancy Journey, where she delves deeper into overcoming fears and the continued support from her faith and medical team.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Evie McLeod [04:17]: "I have always longed and felt a calling to be a wife and a mother."
• Evie McLeod [07:46]: "We found out we were pregnant, our house flooded, and then we lost the baby—all within two or three weeks. It was brutal."
• Evie McLeod [14:10]: "I knew the chances of having two consecutive miscarriages are incredibly low, so I initially didn’t pursue extensive testing."
• Evie McLeod [65:31]: "Psalm 23 was huge. There was a whole God story... He restores my soul."
• Evie McLeod [72:20]: "He will protect me and this baby because I know his name."

---

Final Note:
For those who have experienced miscarriage or are navigating pregnancy after loss, Evie's candid recounting offers solace, understanding, and a beacon of hope. Her blend of personal experience and unwavering faith provides a meaningful narrative for creative entrepreneurs and dreamers alike.

Transcript

[Lindsay Roman]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are your hosts, Evvi McLeod and Lindsay Roman. Welcome back to the show, my friend. Today's a very special episode. We, I am going to interview Evie McLeod. She's going to share her story. Evvi, take it away.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah, I mean, today's episode is going to be really fun. It's going to be very personal. I, you know, have, I know I've shared like little snippets here and there on like social media and stuff of my journey to motherhood and through, you know, multiple losses and now this pregnancy and this the first time I'm actually talking about it on the podcast, any of that and this one's going to kind of be like a, a tell all. I'm going to share, I'm going to share the full story and yeah, just what God has done, it is such, it's such a God story in all of it through all of these years and both losses and this pregnancy. So I'm just going to pull back the curtain and share all of the things. So if you are just curious of my journey or if you know someone who has walked through miscarriage want to hear a little bit about, you know, just the ins and outs of that and navigating pregnancy after loss and, you know, all of that, or if you've navigated a miscarriage yourself and you want to hear from somebody else in their journey and their story, either way, I think you're just going to hopefully get a lot out of this and it'll bless you. So let's dive on in. All right. Do you want to be a destination wedding photographer but you feel like you can't because you live in the frickin middle of nowhere like anyone. Relate. Just a few years ago, we felt that hard. As two girls born, raised and starting our businesses in the smack dab middle of the Midwest, it took some serious strategy and planning to get booked as a destination wedding photographer. It wasn't easy, but it is possible no matter where you're based.

[Lindsay Roman]

We're here today to give you the tools we learned through our process to help you pursue destination wedding photography. To do so, Download our free guide 6 tips to break into the destination wedding industry for a pep talk and learn our strategies to get your business booked out the wazoo in places that you've been dreaming of for years. Go to theheartuniversity.com destination to grab the freebie foreign.

[Evvi McLeod]

Hey.

[Lindsay Roman]

Hey. I'm Lindsey Roman.

[Evvi McLeod]

And I'm Evie McLeod and we are family and Legacy focused serial entrepreneurs and the founders of the Hart University, a business education company with a mission to help you thrive in your business and life.

[Lindsay Roman]

Welcome to our entrepreneur cocktail hour where business and marketing strategies meet faith, real talk and raw in life changing conversations.

[Evvi McLeod]

At the end of the day, we are all in this together, figuring out how to navigate the ups and downs, the messy and the beautiful and everything in between. This is a community where you can come as you are, get inspired and walk away equipped to build a legacy filled life.

[Lindsay Roman]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. I'm so excited for this episode.

[Evvi McLeod]

That face I made.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay, we're treating this like a tell all. I'm gonna. It's mostly gonna be every talking. I'm gonna position myself as the interviewer. I feel like that's just me in life though. I'm not gonna interrupt asking a million questions.

[Evvi McLeod]

Do not ever watch a movie with Lindsay. She will literally spend the entire movie talking, asking questions.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay, but I won't interrupt.

[Evvi McLeod]

Will then be clarified two minutes later in the rest of the film. But she is too impatient.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right, but I just want to know the answer. I'm just gonna. I'm gonna ask the questions that you're gonna be thinking at home. Okay, maybe, Whatever. Anyways, Evie, take it away. Let's start off.

[Evvi McLeod]

If.

[Lindsay Roman]

If anybody, they probably, you know, have. Have listened and followed the podcast and your story. Follow me on Instagram for. For like most people probably do. But just in case somebody doesn't.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Or. Or even if somebody does and they just want to hear it from your words, can you start off and share like kind of the whole story up till now?

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, that's kind of what the whole episode's gonna be about.

[Evvi McLeod]

But like, then over the overview.

[Lindsay Roman]

Overview of like your pregnancy journey. The cliff thus far.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah. Cliff Notes. I. Oh, goodness.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, let's go back.

[Evvi McLeod]

Like, let's have just got a kick right in that moment.

[Lindsay Roman]

Wait, that he's like, let's go.

[Evvi McLeod]

I love it. Okay. Back to the beginning. It was you.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, you. I meant like really back to the beginning. Like, you've always wanted children.

[Evvi McLeod]

Oh, really? Back to the beginning? Yes. Literally, I have felt from my entire life. I was going to say from really young age. No, literally, as long as I can remember, I have always longed and felt a calling to be a wife and a mother. Like, I felt that that is one of God's biggest calls on my life. I have desired that from a very, very young age. I guess I always thought like, this is just A random tidbit. I always thought, like, grew up in a very, like, homeschool, conservative, like, you know, family. And I was always like, I am going to. Not that this was, like, expected of me or the norm in any way. I just was like, this is what I want from life. It's like, I'm gonna get married at, like, 19, and I'm gonna have my first kid at, like, 20. And so that was just, like, you know, that was, like, my mission, like, in life in some ways. So I've always had this really, like, big desire for it. And I got married at 23, so I was like, oh, my gosh. So behind. Anyway, I got married at 23, and my husband and I decided to, like, a year or two before trying for our first. I think it was technically, like, our beginning of, like, our second year. Like, a year and a half into marriage. We're like, okay, let's, like, try for a baby. And, you know, we don't know for sure how long it'll take.

[Lindsay Roman]

But you were trying for the first one.

[Evvi McLeod]

See?

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, here's me already.

[Evvi McLeod]

You didn't know that?

[Lindsay Roman]

No, because I always thought, like, ever since you got married. Not ever since, but, like. Like, for the first few years, I always thought you were always like, no, that's. We want to have, like, a good, like, chunk of time before kids. No, but you were preventing, like. Or you were. You were, like, intentionally. Right.

[Evvi McLeod]

Sure. We weren't. We were not actively trying until our first, and then we were. Right. But our first was, like, a year and a half into marriage.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. For some reason, you always gave vibes of, like, I'm so good.

[Evvi McLeod]

No, no, I.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, not that you didn't want kids, but, like, you were just like, I'm so good for, like, this first. Like, I just want it to be, like, a good, like, chunk of time with us, and then I'll.

[Evvi McLeod]

We felt a lot of peace, of waiting a little bit. We both felt very much like that was what we should do or, like. Like what God was telling us to. I don't know how to explain it. It was just, like, we didn't feel like it was time for us to try until, like, the first. Like, the first baby. Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay.

[Evvi McLeod]

And that was like, a year and a half in.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay.

[Evvi McLeod]

So we tried for our first baby and conceived within, like, I think it was two months. And we were both kind of like, whoa, this is crazy. Like, kind of blindsided. It was like a wild story. Lynn and I found out apart from each other. I was like, In Ohio with my family for photographing my sister's third baby's birth. And Landon was in California, and I had to keep it to myself for an entire week. I didn't tell anybody.

[Lindsay Roman]

You didn't tell me for a very long time on that one.

[Evvi McLeod]

I've been two weeks. Listen, she was livid.

[Lindsay Roman]

I was livid. You redeemed yourself in subsequent ones, but still, yes. Not okay.

[Evvi McLeod]

Anyways, that was a fun one. And then at. I think it was around seven. Seven and a half weeks, I lost that. That pregnancy. And it was very much like a. A total shock. Like, obviously, I think every woman kind of has this, like, fear of, like, what if this happens to me? But that was like, literally my worst nightmare come true. And so went through that grieving process. In that process, I should also clarify, within that exact time frame, we literally had found out we were pregnant, had bought a house, like, two months before here in Florida, found out we were pregnant, miscarried.

[Lindsay Roman]

But your house.

[Evvi McLeod]

And then our house flooded.

[Lindsay Roman]

No, I think your house flooded before, because I remember it was. It was Tropical Storm Nicole.

[Evvi McLeod]

You're right.

[Lindsay Roman]

Which I think was November of 23.

[Evvi McLeod]

23. We found out we were pregnant, and then our house flooded.

[Lindsay Roman]

And then you miscarried. I think in December, early December. I was.

[Evvi McLeod]

I.

[Lindsay Roman]

This is just weirdly specific. I was at the car dealership buying a car when you called me. And I remember, like, I walked outside, like, when you called me to tell me that you miscarried. Oh, I just visual. I visibly remember.

[Evvi McLeod]

I didn't tell you I was pregnant. No. You were in your house.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Evvi McLeod]

No.

[Lindsay Roman]

And so, like, I just remember Andrew, like, we were at that point, we were doing, like, the paperwork.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And I, like, left. Yeah. Yeah, kind of.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah. It was early. It was early December. So you're right. So we found out we were pregnant. We bought a house, found out we were pregnant, the house flooded, found out we lost the baby within a matter of, like. That's a lot like. Like, buying the house was technically, like, end of August, but the three things, like, found out we were pregnant, house flooded, found out we lost the babies in a matter of, like, two or three weeks. It was, like, back to back. It was crazy. So that was brutal. And that from all of that, we were like, okay, well, we don't know where we're going to live. We already, like, put in notice on our rental in California. Landon had put it in his notice at his job out there. So it was just a lot of topsy turvy. So we're like, okay, we're going to go figure out where we're going to move, where we're going to live, how long it's going to take us to get into this house. Like there's just so much unknown that we're like, we're going to wait before we try again and do anything with a baby again. We're just gonna wait until we're settled in the world.

[Lindsay Roman]

Maybe that's more what I'm thinking of when I think you waited a long time. Not that you wait. I mean, maybe combined. It was a while.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah. Cause we did the after the. After the first one. We waited another year, year and a half.

[Lindsay Roman]

And what was the reason for waiting that long?

[Evvi McLeod]

Our life was just so up in the air. Like we moved to Ohio, like with where my family is all from and all lives, and stayed in one of the investment properties that my sister and brother in law own while this house here in Florida was taking like eight months to go through the insurance process, collecting insurance on it, which was brutal. And then doing renovations because the whole thing there was like two feet of water through our whole house. So we were like having.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, so weren't you going to renovate a little bit even if it hadn't flooded?

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah. But obviously it was unlivable. And there was mold throughout the whole house because we didn't do something like take care of it fast enough. We didn't know we were across the country. So we had to do a whole mold remediation process. Like it was just such a process. So we lived in Ohio for like seven months while we were waiting to move here. And we just didn't know when that would be. We were like, this could take a year, year and a half. This could be, you know, whatever. We're living in this tiny little like 600 square foot, like half of a duplex. And so for us we were just like, there's so much unknown in our life right now. Landon wasn't working while we were in Ohio because he'd left his job. He was like working on getting his real estate license. But there was just like so much like I was bringing in like all the money. We were paying a mortgage on a house we weren't living in. We were like, there was just so much. We were like, we're just gonna wait before we add a kid to this mix. Like this feels crazy. So we waited a good while we moved down here. So maybe it was more than. Because it was like summer of 2024 that we started trying again.

[Lindsay Roman]

A year and three quarters.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah, almost two years. We waited a while. So then summer, like, sp. Like spring, Late spring, summer of 2024, we started trying again.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, I. I mean, I don't know. This is an invasive question. You can say no comment if you wish to. Who are we? This is the Heart Nozzle podcast. But you're welcome. You have free will once you moved to Florida and got settled.

[Evvi McLeod]

Ish.

[Lindsay Roman]

Because you moved in July of 23. Wait, no.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

No, 2024.

[Evvi McLeod]

No, 2023.

[Lindsay Roman]

Wait, so then the miscarriage was in 2022. I think I said 2023.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was. The first miscarriage was in December of 2022.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay, so then you moved to Florida. In my brain, you're settled. I mean, as much as one. You know, you. You move and settle in. In, like, July of 2023.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

So what made you. Wait a second.

[Evvi McLeod]

I think there was a few things. I think there was, like, just financial, like, uncertainty. Landon was starting a whole new career. We had downshifted the heart and cut our salaries from that. There was, like, an entire house and, like, projects and things that I was like, I feel like I want to get a head start on some of these. And I think there was also an element for both of us that we kind of like. I don't know how to explain it. I don't want to say in any way that after the first loss, we were like, we. We. Our desire for children went away, because it wasn't that, but it felt like it. I don't know how to explain it. Like, a grace had, like, lifted from the permission to go in that area. And we both. It took us like, a year after settling in Florida. At that point, we were like, okay, God, like, whenever you tell us when. I feel like it was like a year before. Both of us were like, we feel peace and excited and ready, and it wasn't.

[Lindsay Roman]

It wasn't like you were trying that whole time. No. Okay.

[Evvi McLeod]

No. I will say we have never been the most cautious. At any point.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's impressive.

[Evvi McLeod]

At any point that there was no. We recognized that.

[Lindsay Roman]

Accidents then. That, yeah, that's impressive.

[Evvi McLeod]

And that was one of the things we were like, surrendered. We were like, we're not actively trying. We're not, like, tracking ovulation and going for it, you know, whatever. But we were also, like.

[Lindsay Roman]

You weren't locking it up.

[Evvi McLeod]

We're not being the most careful. So at any point, anything could happen. And we were kind of surrendering that to the Lord. Of like, hey, your timing, like, we ultimately still. Like, you can make a decision, whatever.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. So now we're into summer of 2024.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah. So we conceived again in summer 2024 and found out we were pregnant. And I connected with my midwife here and was basically like, hey, I've had a loss before. This was my first conversation and she's done worked with several of our friends. And I was like, hey, I've had a loss before. I really don't want this to happen again. Is there anything that I should be doing to check or to, you know, whatever? And she was like, no, you're fine.

[Lindsay Roman]

Interesting.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Interesting thought process on her end backing up really fast. Did you do any testing or anything after the first one?

[Evvi McLeod]

No.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay.

[Evvi McLeod]

I didn't just because I know, I knew at the time that there was such. Like, your chances of having two consecutive miscarriages is like, I think it's between 1 and 3%.

[Lindsay Roman]

Really?

[Evvi McLeod]

It's incredibly low.

[Lindsay Roman]

Wow.

[Evvi McLeod]

And the.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, I mean, to be fair, I. I didn't also, after. After my miscarriage, I didn't. And I. I don't know if I think we talked a little bit with this with Jordan, but it's like, it's like, do you. Do you think. I mean, hindsight's 20 20. It's like, obviously you want to always prevent future losses, but it's like, do. Do that many women after one loss, it's like immediately go into like problem solving mode?

[Evvi McLeod]

No, but it's also like, I think part of the. I, because I had spent. I didn't do testing, but in that, like year and a half, two years of like waiting to consider, like, try again, I was very much focusing on my hormones, balancing my hormones, supporting my progesterone, eating like, you know, a pro metabolic diet, like, things like that, which I'd always. I'd been working on for a couple of like a year and a half before we like conceived the first one. Um, so in my mind I was like, hey, I'm working on supporting my body, balancing hormones, like, supporting my hormones, like, you know, getting out of any adrenal fatigue, like, things like that. I was very aware and trying to support my body. And I guess to me that was like, that's the best thing I can do in this scenario. There is a very high chance that that was a chromosomal loss the first time. It was just the body identifying like a quote unquote non viable pregnancy and terminating. So I didn't jump to any like, strong testing just because I knew the chances of that being a fluke were so, like a one off, it was so high. So for the second one, then I was like trusting the Lord and like.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, wait, yeah, Becca, so you got pregnant summer of 2024.

[Evvi McLeod]

What.

[Lindsay Roman]

What was the story there? Of what, like the miscarry? Like, like everything.

[Evvi McLeod]

Well, yeah, so that's what I'm saying. Like I was trusting.

[Lindsay Roman]

Sorry, sorry, sorry. I thought you were like saying like after the second. Okay, sorry.

[Evvi McLeod]

No, so I was like, I. I had a conversation with my midwife and was like, is there anything I should be doing? Testing anything?

[Lindsay Roman]

She's like, no, you're fine.

[Evvi McLeod]

She was like, you're fine. You come on in.

[Lindsay Roman]

I need to put my phone on. Do not disturb. Keep talking though.

[Evvi McLeod]

You come in for your first appointment at like, like 10 to 12 weeks, ish or something like that. And there were a few things that I like did message her about. Like, you know, hey, my symptoms, I feel like are dropping off at eight and a half weeks, which I'd gotten quite a bit further describe.

[Lindsay Roman]

What do you mean by that?

[Evvi McLeod]

I was super. Not like super nauseous, like sick as a dog with my second since you found out till from like five weeks until like eight and a half. And then I felt a significant decrease in my symptoms around eight and a half of like, I felt a little bit more like, oh my gosh, I can breathe again. And I messaged my midwife and was like, hey, is this concerning? And she was like, no, this is right around the time when your placenta starts to take over and like, starts to create, you know, the brunt of things that your body was doing. So you might feel a little bit more relief right now. And I was like, okay, which I mean, could be true right there. There is truth to what she was saying. And I don't know for sure if that was a symptom or like a whatever, a trigger. The next part I'm going to share, I won't go into like extreme detail, but if you have had a miscarriage, you might want to skip like 30, 60 seconds ahead because there is. I'm just going to share a little bit of this. It was very much out of the blue because even though I had some decreased symptoms at like eight and a half weeks, I still was like somewhat nauseous. I was still throwing up occasionally. Like definitely still felt like pregnant and off. But it was right around nine weeks, ironically, the day I was supposed to, or technically the night before at like 11pm when I was supposed to Be going in for my first midwife appointment the next day. I was throwing up when I felt like blood and it was like.

[Lindsay Roman]

You felt it come out?

[Evvi McLeod]

No. Yeah, it was like a big gush. And I. That was the moment that I was like, okay, crap. But how does this make sense? I'm still actively throwing up. And like, it was very fast. So from that moment, that was like 11pm the next morning, like, everything was pretty much done. Not like done, but like we went in for an ultrasound and the baby was no longer there. You know, everything. So it was very quick from, like feeling pregnant, having symptoms to the baby was gone the next morning, which was really hard because it was also like, on my first pregnancy, I never really had any nausea. I didn't expect get sick. I was still early enough along. But it was like seven, seven and a half weeks and so on this one to be like, I've gone past that point. I'm so sick. I feel so many symptoms. I feel so nauseous. I'm throwing up like every day. Like, I can barely function. I feel so much more pregnant. Things feel good. Things feel, you know, like my body's doing what it needs to do.

[Lindsay Roman]

Irony is that when you feel bad, that means, like, the pregnancy is doing good. Maybe.

[Evvi McLeod]

But it is frustrating because, like, now I know that that obviously doesn't always mean anything.

[Lindsay Roman]

What? Also pregnant. The rhyme or reason on, like, if you're nauseous on one kid and not the other. Yeah, I always thought that was associated with gender. No, it ain't.

[Evvi McLeod]

Anyways, it was. It was just very shock, I think, with that one felt very shocking because we both felt so much peace on the pregnancy. Like there had been things like, you know, we were going for a walk and I saw like a rainbow and I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, this is our rate that God's promise, like, we won't lose this child. Like, there were just so many. Like, I felt peace, like, complete peace. I wasn't like fearful really, in that pregnancy. I felt all the symptoms. I felt like, good. And I felt like this is like the one, the. The pregnancy. So it was when we did lose that one, that was very shocking.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evvi McLeod]

Like, we didn't see that coming in anyway.

[Lindsay Roman]

Different.

[Evvi McLeod]

It felt very different.

[Lindsay Roman]

Do you. Could you touch on a little bit of, like, I. I experienced this specifically the pregnancy after my loss, but even I think. I think all women experience some sort of fear. Maybe I don't want to say fear because it's not always fear for everyone, but it's like that little thought that, like, what if. Yeah, because just I feel like everyone knows that miscarriage is a thing. It's usually a 1 in 4 statistic. I don't think it's usually. I think that's actually it. But I think especially after you've had one, I feel like the pregnancy after that, what was your thought process? And then even, even subsequent pregnancies, I want to know too. But, like, what was your thought process on? Like, did you get an ultrasound at all for that second one?

[Evvi McLeod]

Yes.

[Lindsay Roman]

So you, you heard the heartbeat?

[Evvi McLeod]

Yes.

[Lindsay Roman]

So what? I remember the, the, the first ultrasound in, in the pregnancy after my miscarriage, which was Anna, and I remember hearing the heartbeat and I was like, oh. Oh, cool. And then I remember walking out of the place and we got in the car and Andrew's like, aren't you so excited? And I was like, I mean, yeah, like five minutes ago there was a heartbeat. That doesn't mean there's a heartbeat now.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, what is your thought process on? Like, just like the, the continual faith that you almost like have to have.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah, there. That's. That's a meaty question.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. Yeah, it is.

[Evvi McLeod]

Well, it's also like my experience with my second pregnancy versus my third was very different and not in the sense of like, I didn't trust God with my second and I didn' with my third. Like, it. Not. It wasn't that like, I, I've always had like this surrendered or attempted to have like, this surrendered, like, trust in the Lord in like this journey and everything in my life and, you know, whatever. But I think there was a little bit more I did. I didn't feel as dependent on him on my second as I did on this third. And, and what I mean by that is like, I was rely. I think I was relying a little bit more on my second of like statistics, like, mentally and emotionally.

[Lindsay Roman]

The statistic of having two in a row is so low.

[Evvi McLeod]

It's so low. And then like, as I progressed in my pregnancy, like, there are statistics and there's like a website where you can find these statistics and it'll, you know, you'll put in how far along you are and it'll be like your chance of miscarriage. It's like, I think I forget what it's called, but it's like every week.

[Lindsay Roman]

You get farther along. It's lower.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yes. Significantly, like, it drops. Significant. I think by the time you're. I forget exactly. But I think by the time you're like, like nine or 10 weeks, it's like you have a. Like a 2% chance of a miscarriage, not even counting the recurrent aspect. But it's like your chances. The further along you get, the lower and lower your chances get until you're at, like, you know, a point zero something percent chance.

[Lindsay Roman]

So did you not struggle then at all with. No.

[Evvi McLeod]

I Definitely. With the third.

[Lindsay Roman]

No. Well, we're not there yet.

[Evvi McLeod]

Okay.

[Lindsay Roman]

Maybe I'll ask that question again when we get. I mean, you can maybe talk about both in the sense of just, like, there's the concept of, like, fear feeling like.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Every day. Like, just almost anticipating blood.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

That maybe I should have set a trigger warning for that.

[Evvi McLeod]

But no. No, I definitely felt it a little bit. Even though I say I felt so much peace on the second one, I definitely felt like. I almost feel like I was choose, like, trying to ignore my fear.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evvi McLeod]

If that makes sense.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evvi McLeod]

And which isn't a bad thing. And I'll share a little bit about this with, like, my third pregnancy because there was a whole God story with, like, when it came to handling my fear with my third, but with my second, I think I just felt more like, okay, enough times passed. I've supported my body enough. The chances are so low. I'm just like. Even though I had these moments absolutely. Of, like, panic or fear, you know, whatever. I was like, I would kind of, like, shove it under a rug. Like, I wouldn't. I wouldn't, like, handle it or process it or, like, speak to it, pray over it. Like, I don't know how to explain that. It was absolutely there, like, very much so. But I was just kind of, like, ignoring it. Does that make sense? Which I was choosing to, like, trust God. We, obviously, we've prayed over every one of our pregnancies and every one of our babies, but it was just more of, like, I was getting comfortable from the statistics.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evvi McLeod]

Versus God than the Lord.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evvi McLeod]

Which was ironically, very different with my third. Like, I just, like, I haven't even looked at the statistics of anything on my third because I'm just like, that's not important because God's doing something here.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. So that's so cool.

[Evvi McLeod]

But, yeah. Fear.

[Lindsay Roman]

Did you and Landon grieve one or both? I guess we could say both of them differently.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, how did you guys handle that?

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah. I think every friend that I've talked to who has navigated a miscarriage has said, like, men and women and husbands, wives in those scenarios grieve differently. Right.

[Lindsay Roman]

I feel like it's just different for A man. It's not that they didn't lose something. They obviously did.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

But it's. It's different. It's not as internal. I mean, physically, obviously. Like, physically, there's, like, a process, and then you have to. Obviously, you're going through pregnancy hormones.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And if people don't. I could maybe say trigger. Maybe we should have just put a trigger warning at the beginning of. But no, it's good. I think people don't realize that miscarriage is. Is a birth, and it. It's just like. I mean, even if you have a surgery, it's still, like. It's still a version of a birth. And I feel like people don't know that before you have one.

[Evvi McLeod]

There's very. There's very, very physical elements of it, both in the hormonal, like, fluctuations and the roller coaster that you go on with those and, you know, the. The physical act of, like, miscarrying and everything with that. Yeah. I think for lan and I. At least, I think I grieved more immediately on both of them. Although the second one hit him pretty hard, too. Like, pretty quickly, I guess I should say. Not that the first one didn't, but it took him a little bit longer on the first one, I feel like, to fully, like, process and realize. Because it was also earlier.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right.

[Evvi McLeod]

And I had known for a whole week longer than him because I had to wait to tell him. So there's, like.

[Lindsay Roman]

Which is why I found out two weeks later.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah. So there's, like, there were elements of. Of certain things like that. With the second one, it felt much more real to us. It was longer. I was super sick. He was having to, like, do everything and, like, grocery shop and cook for me and, you know, things like that. So it felt like, I think, a little bit more. And then I think it was also just. We both felt very ready on the second one. Like, it's about time. Let's go. And losing that baby was really hard. And then there was also an element for both of us. We found out the. The second one when we sent the tissue. I hate saying that, but the tissue in for testing, which.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, wait, okay. Is that. Is that, like the next step in the. In the narrative story or the. No, that's not. Yeah, the chronological story.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

So you. You miscarried around nine weeks. Did you send it in and be like. Yeah, like, you knew to, like, keep the tissue, like.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah, that was one thing that I was very grateful my midwife had said when I called her and was, like, explaining what was going on. She had just in passing said, like, one thing you can do, like, moving forward, one thing you can do is test the fetal tissue to see if it was a chromosomal loss or not. And so she'd said it in passing of, like, let's just see what's going on. But you could do that. But I had heard it caught, like, kind of grabbed onto it. And so I knew through the process of the miscarriage that I wanted to try to collect the tissue to be able to send it in for testing. So we did that. And one of the biggest things, like, one of the biggest determinations within a miscarriage, there's like, 50% of. Of all overall miscarriages are caused by a chromosomal abnormality, which is the body identifying something is not developing properly or whatever with the fetus and terminates the pregnancy. But the other 50% is caused by other factors.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evvi McLeod]

So by testing the tissue, you basically eliminate half of the testing that you need to do immediately right out the gate. So that's what we did. And it came back chromosomally normal. Okay, so it was not a chromosomal abnormality. Like, there was nothing detected.

[Lindsay Roman]

Which means what? I mean. Well, it narrows down anything wrong with the actual baby.

[Evvi McLeod]

Correct. It means that it eliminates a baby. A ton of things. It eliminates a. This was not a fluke of just like, hey, you know, something just wasn't developing properly. And the body identified that it. It was like, okay, this was. The baby was developing fine. But it also identifies that there's, like, a whole realm of testing of, like, do the two genetics coming together, like Landon's and mine coming together, have a higher likelihood, which. This is a factor.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right.

[Evvi McLeod]

Of having a chromosomal abnormality, which could just mean we are more prone to have miscarriages throughout our family building.

[Lindsay Roman]

But it wasn't that.

[Evvi McLeod]

It was not that. So it eliminated all of those testings, all of the things needed to determine.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, what does that mean? Well, that's not. Because it could still be like, a bunch of it.

[Evvi McLeod]

Oh, it's a million. It's a million things. Even eliminating that.

[Lindsay Roman]

But means that it was like, it chemically. Well, not chemically. That's not the word.

[Evvi McLeod]

It essentially told me that my body was or was not doing something to sustain the pregnancy. Okay.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay.

[Evvi McLeod]

Essentially.

[Lindsay Roman]

And when you. But when you sent the tissue in, did they tell you the gender? Yes, they could tell that.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay.

[Evvi McLeod]

So it came back as a boy, and we had always thought it would be really sweet to have a Boy first. We genuinely would take anything, and we did not care at all. But we both had been like, it would be really sweet to have a boy first and have, like, a big brother for all the rest of the siblings. And we didn't realize when we got the. The testing back that it would literally be there on the answer.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, so, like, you just looked at it.

[Evvi McLeod]

We just looked to be like, oh, let's open this test, like, and see, like, chromosomally normal or abnormal. And it was like, chromosomally normal male. And that, like, that wrecked us. Yeah, that was really hard to see because we also weren't prepared to see that. I think that was the hard thing too. We weren't mentally like, okay, we're about to find out what it. Like, what that baby was like. It was just a very big shock. So that was really hard. And that was a moment that I think both of us, like, grieved together at the same feeling, same moment, same time. So, yeah, you grieve differently, but you're also in it together. But it is interesting to grieve. Like, you could still be grieving together, but still feel alone from your spouse, which is kind of hard.

[Lindsay Roman]

So what was your mindset after that, then? On. On future. Yeah, on future. I was gonna say insemination. No, I feel like future.

[Evvi McLeod]

Future pregnancies.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. Or like, just like, life plan. Not life. What is that word?

[Evvi McLeod]

I have no idea what your family plant.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, like, trying to, like, conceive again. What was your thought process?

[Evvi McLeod]

I immediately went into. Because this is my. My midwife and the OB the first time also said the same thing. They were like, okay, I'm so sorry for your loss. You know, whatever. You can go ahead and try it. Like, if you want to wait for one cycle to come back, then go ahead and second. And I was like, I'm sorry. I'm not doing that. I'm not going through this again. I have run into this brick wall that is very painful twice now head on.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, we're not just gonna be like, let's keep going and just see if it hopefully doesn't happen.

[Evvi McLeod]

I'm not doing this again. So immediately. I already knew after the second loss, I was like, I have to get some form of answers. And the chromosomal testing was the first step for me. Okay. Or for us. That was the very first. Like, we're starting at least with this and then making decisions from there. So I was like, we're. We're figuring some testing out. And thankfully, one of my best Friends, Jordan Dooley, who we've had on the show, has had kind of walked this road ahead of me, and she was able to give me a lot of insight and guidance and resources and things to like, here's some things you should do. So I literally had a mapped out plan. I still have it in a note on my phone. It was like, Baby McLeod plan or something. And I had it mapped out of, like, step one, chromosomal testing, step two, full hormone panel, step three.

[Lindsay Roman]

And did you learn all of that from her?

[Evvi McLeod]

Yes.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay.

[Evvi McLeod]

Her or her resources that she sent me, that I did research. If you.

[Lindsay Roman]

If you haven't listened, that episode with Jordan, it came out a few months ago. Very good.

[Evvi McLeod]

It's so good.

[Lindsay Roman]

I don't know what we titled it or what episode number it is.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Type in Heart and Hustle. Jordan Dooley. We've had her on three times. It's one of them.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah. So, yeah. So we land and I began to kind of go down that path of testing. And we had the chromosomal testing done immediately, right away. And then I had my midwife draw up orders for all of the blood work and the labs of the hormone panels, the blood clotting panels, like, all of the things which. This is all getting into some logistics. But we talked a lot about the scientific, like, testing logistics with Jordan. So I would very much recommend go listen to that if you're, like, curious more about that or just DM me. I'm an open book, Absolutely open book with this. But I had my midwife create like a big. I think it was like 10 to 12 different types of tests that we were running at one time with like, ten vials of blood. We were, like, drawing to get all this testing done. But. And this is. I don't know if this was part of, like, the God story or what it was, but the first month, my. My cycle came back early, and my second month, it came back late. It was like. It was. It was just. Or maybe. No, it came back late the first month, which makes sense. It took a while after, you know, the miscarriage to get my period back. And then the second month, I was. I was starting to track my, like, my cycle being like, I. Because I had to take. I guess I should clarify this. I had to have my blood drawn specifically for progesterone, especially one of the biggest ones I was testing for, which.

[Lindsay Roman]

Is one of the things that Jordan recommended.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

One of the, like, main reasons for a possible miscarriage. Yeah.

[Evvi McLeod]

Chromosomal loss, one of the common factors There are. There are many factors, but one of the most common is. Is progesterone dropping in pregnancy or low progesterone. Another is blood clotting. So I was getting all of that.

[Lindsay Roman]

Tested, and you have to wait till ovulation to. To blood test.

[Evvi McLeod]

You have to wait until days after ovulation to test your progesterone because your progesterone fluctuates throughout your cycle. And it's at, like, the. The place that they want to test it is after your ovulation to get the correct reading.

[Lindsay Roman]

So you were testing. You had to kind of, like, track your cycle? Very.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yes. So I was tracking my cycle. I was waiting for ovulation. I was. I was waiting to, like, you know, start. And my cycle came back, like, two weeks after my first one, and I was like, whoa, okay. Like, I just wasn't.

[Lindsay Roman]

So you had your first period after your miscarriage, and then two weeks later, you had another one.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yes. So it threw me off. And I was like, dang it. I was not, like, prepared. Like, I wasn't. I don't know what just happened. That was such a fluke. Like, I wasn't. Like, I didn't expect to have my beer. Like, I was paying attention to my cycle and just was waiting to start testing ovulation strips and, like, you know, figuring out all that. So that threw me off. So that delayed me another month. And that was the really frustrating part in that season. It just felt like I was in a waiting game because I was like.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, but just clarify, you weren't trying.

[Evvi McLeod]

No.

[Lindsay Roman]

Because you didn't want to, but you didn't want to get pregnant just for it to happen again with no answers.

[Evvi McLeod]

Correct. I also had appendix surgery a month.

[Lindsay Roman]

After she got her gear stolen. 2024 was not Evie's year.

[Evvi McLeod]

2024 was a rough one. It was a big God coming through year. Like, teaching me to trust. But, yeah, that was a big thing, too. Was like, the surgery I think I got. That was when the first cycle, Like, I wasn't even like, well, like, you had your miscarriage.

[Lindsay Roman]

And I think it was August. Correct. Of 2024. And then quite literally, like, a month later, she has appendicitis.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yep. In the ER and has to, like, surgery.

[Lindsay Roman]

Randomly have a surgery. Like, same day.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And then, like, literally a week later.

[Evvi McLeod]

We fly to France to host a workshop. It was delightful.

[Lindsay Roman]

And then. And then while we're in France, a hurricane comes and is about to flood her house. I just remember. This is side note. I remember one night of the France workshop.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

We share a room. And you're on the phone with Landon while he's like prepping the house, like sandbagging it.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yep.

[Lindsay Roman]

Everything that's not the most ideal, like it. Well, clearly it flooded once from just a tropical storm and this was like a pretty big hurricane. And I just remember like I'm sitting in bed, like I'm a scrolling. I'm sharing this tick tock. Or like I'm sharing like the heart content. And I remember you're just like bawling. I was bawling on the phone to Atlanta.

[Evvi McLeod]

I'm just like, like minding your business.

[Lindsay Roman]

I'm just like, do I like hug her? I was like, I'm like, do I do like give them some alone time? Do I do I just sit here? I just like sit it silently. And then you hung up. And then I just like, I think I like held your hand. I don't know what we did. And I just remember we like you were crying and then we started laughing.

[Evvi McLeod]

At like because of the absolute insanity that last year was.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, I just, I remember like one of our first talks that we give at the, at the workshop is about worth, value and identity and. And I think one of we go through like a bunch of different points. And one of the points, it's kind of like principles to remember as you go through this. And I remember one of the points is like anything worthwhile or like it is good to go through struggle. And I remember you're sitting there crying and you're like f that we were laughing like deliriously and Val was like next door, our social media girl that comes with us on our workshop. And she came in, she was like, I heard laughing. I want to be a part of it.

[Evvi McLeod]

And then she looks in and sees me like puffy faced with bawling my eyes out. It was a good time anyways.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay, continue.

[Evvi McLeod]

So what was I saying? Oh, oh, waiting. We basically every. We were trying to get these testing tests drawn to get answers to be able to figure out what our next step was. And it just felt like month after month between appendicitis and then my cycle came back super early. And then I think it was like, I don't remember what it was. It was just enough stuff that I was like, it kept being delayed like every month. I couldn't. I get myself.

[Lindsay Roman]

I wonder if appendicitis and then international travel messed with your cycle also possibly in addition to like miss because that was all kind of in the last.

[Evvi McLeod]

All within like two Months of each other. Yeah, it was crazy, whatever it was. I just was. I just remember feeling like, oh, my gosh, Like, I felt like I was gonna, like, bust a fuse. Like, what is happening here? I just want to get.

[Lindsay Roman]

You want to get answers so that you can draw fixing it to conceive again.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah. Well, I also just didn't know how long, like, the whole, like, figuring out an answer was gonna take because, you know, it could take a year plus, depending on how many, like, you. You start elimination process of, like, it's not that. It's not that. It's not that. And you have to go deeper and.

[Lindsay Roman]

Deeper into, like, did you want final. A hundred percent, like, this is the answer before you even considered trying again?

[Evvi McLeod]

I wasn't totally sure. I definitely wanted to at least begin the process and just kind of make decisions as we went from there, you know? Like, I. There are some very. Not basic, but basic causes that are very high in the percentage of causes.

[Lindsay Roman]

You can kind of do something about fix pretty easily.

[Evvi McLeod]

Like the blood clotting, the progesterone. And I was like, I at least have to start with those.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evvi McLeod]

And so that's kind of. I was just like a one step at a time, I think. Like, I kind of had a plan of, like, here's the order of things, here's the. The. The process of how, you know, what testing. But I wasn't like, I refuse to try again until, you know, I was just more like, let me just take this one thing at a time and figure it out. So, long story short, we. I was finally able to get all of my labs drawn end of November. So I miscarried mid to end of August, August 20th, and I was able to get my labs drawn the Friday after Thanksgiving, which.

[Lindsay Roman]

And that was when you, like, like, after ovulation. It was like this.

[Evvi McLeod]

I had, like, tracked my ovulation. I'd, like, known where I was. I was counting the days, like, whatever. I got all of my labs drawn for, like, the 12 major tests that are, like, the most common. And then over the next few days, I was starting to get all the answers. And there's such a cool God story and all of that, but I started to get all the answers. And as all of these answers were coming back and every single test, because they were. They were coming in kind of like one or two at a time. Okay. I was with my family on our, like, family mountain trip, like, getaway camping trip after Thanksgiving every year. We always go on like, a big hunting trip. So we were in the, like the mountains and the cabins, whatever. And thankfully where we were staying, we usually don't have like WI fi or service, but we were in a different place this year. We had WI fi. So all this stuff was like trickling in. And every single test that was coming in was like, like normal. Normal actually looks really great. Normal, normal, normal. And I was starting to feel more and more frustrated and like, okay, everything looks fine, so what the frick. Yeah, so that was really hard. I don't know if I should, should I share like the, the little initial God trickle in?

[Lindsay Roman]

I mean we always want to hear a God trickle. You share. This is the tell all.

[Evvi McLeod]

Okay. I just didn't know if I should like continue or.

[Lindsay Roman]

No, okay. No continuing. We sit and we listen.

[Evvi McLeod]

So we listen. We don't judge. Anyways, so while we were on this trip in the mountains over, I think it was like a week. So maybe it was even like in Thanksgiving before I'd even gotten my blood drawn for the testing. And then over the next few days it was like every two or three nights I was having a dream and.

[Lindsay Roman]

Do I even know this?

[Evvi McLeod]

I don't know if you know this.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. I'm sad.

[Evvi McLeod]

There were three, there were three dreams. The first one, I was really, really pregnant. I was like seven or eight months, like pretty large. And I genuinely. Each of these dreams, there it was, there was one specific picture or memory from that dream. It was almost like it wasn't like a full length dream that like, you know, I had like almost like a highlight. It was like there was like a photo that was shown to me almost and it was vivid and I remember it after I woke up and days after, which is usually for me what tells me like that was a prophetic dream or like something from the Lord. So the first one was like I was super, super pregnant, like seven or eight months pregnant. The second one, a few days later I was in labor and I was on like a labor ball and I was like, like rolling around, like bouncing around, like actively in like full labor. And the third one, I was giving birth.

[Lindsay Roman]

And this, we love a progression.

[Evvi McLeod]

And this part is these were days apart and each one I kind of like brought up to land and I was like that, like a prophetic dream. And he was like, yeah. And he's, he's very like this is going to sound bad that he said this, but he was like, well maybe it's just because like you've been like very think much thinking about like pregnancy and loss and getting testing and you Know, hoping to be pregnant, like, you know, whatever. So he was trying to, like, he wasn't trying to, like, discredit me because he knows, like, he is fully supportive of, like, you know, my dreams and the things that God says to me or him or whatever. But it was in that moment, he was like, well, maybe it's just because of this. And I was like, you know what? That's probably so accurate. Like, this is very much on my mind right now. You're probably right. But I kind of held on loosely with the third dream, too. There's a God thing with that that I still have yet to feel. Like, confidently I know the answer of, but I. In that dream, I birthed two babies. I birthed a girl. A little, like, dainty little girl. First, not dainty, but, like, she was like, like, cute and, like, small little baby girl. And then the second one was a chunky boy.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. Like, in that, like, he got all the nutrients.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah. Guess he stole it from his sister. The son of a gun. So when. Yeah. So I, like, in that dream, I was like, that's wild. I wonder if that means, like, next pregnancy will be twins or something like that, you know, that was kind of in my head, but it was very, like, vivid. Like, I remember all these details. So anyways, I start getting all this testing back. Testing's all coming back normal. I have Jordan, who's seen all this test. I have her, like, give a second opinion. Obviously, my midwife interpreted them. And then she was like, everything's normal. And then Jordan, I also was like, hey, give me a second opinion. You've seen more, like, specialists, like, and seen these labs drawn more like, do you have an interpretation? She's like, everything looks normal. I was like, even progesterone. She was like, even your progesterone. It's a little bit low for sure, but it's not dangerous. Like, I think you'd probably still be fine. So that I remember, we were actually hanging out.

[Lindsay Roman]

Was it at Chelsea's in St. Augustine?

[Evvi McLeod]

We were. We were hanging out. And that whole week, I'd kind of been getting those answers and kind of had seen and interpreted myself that everything looked normal. And that was like, I finally heard back from my midwife and Jordan the same night. It was a Friday night. It was December 6th. Friday, December 6th was like, specific dates.

[Lindsay Roman]

We love specific dates.

[Evvi McLeod]

Like, I got final confirmation from both of both people. Midwife, you're perfect. Everything was fine just the way you are.

[Lindsay Roman]

And you're, like, not helpful.

[Evvi McLeod]

And I just. That whole Week. I'd already been kind of grieving the. The aspect of, like, I really hoped that my answer would be simple.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evvi McLeod]

Because my next step was going to be like, I'm going to a specialist that typically is on like a three to six month wait to even get into them. And then it's like a three to six month, like, process to diagnose and determine things. And. And like, you know, so I was like, it's going to be like a year before I can even try to have another baby. So that was kind of. I was already processing that. And I remember that Friday night, that whole week, I'd been like, God, is this, like, do we really have to go down this route? This. This next, like, layer, this next step of all of this testing, all of these things. I just want a baby. Like, I don't understand this. Like, I. I feel peace on this. I feel like we. I don't want to just. Just ignore the fact that everything looks fine and be like, great, let's go again. Like, it just feels stupid. I was like, so I feel like we should do more testing. But if that's not what you have, like, I need you to make that so clear. If you want us to try again without continuing the route of testing, I need you to make it so clear. I need you to, like, get me pregnant unexpectedly. Because we were preventing at that point.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, like, what does that mean? Well, you don't have to. Never mind.

[Evvi McLeod]

We were pregnant. I retract that question, if you know what I mean.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay.

[Evvi McLeod]

We were doing our darndest. And because we. Both of us were like, we're not. We're not running into that brick wall again. Full steam ahead. Because that's stupid. But I was like, both Lane and I were, like, praying. We were like, God, like, you take the reins on this. We feel peace on continuing the testing route. But if that's not what you have, make it clear. Yeah. And I remember that Friday night, night, I was driving home. I was driving Nicole, one of our good friends.

[Lindsay Roman]

It was like, we went all. We had, like, a girls night in St. Augustine because Chelsea, our friend, was pregnant.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And about to give birth. And so it was kind of like.

[Evvi McLeod]

Her last little sprinkle, sprinkle celebration. Yeah. And then Nicole. I drove Nicole home and then was coming home. But on the drive home with Nicole, she was like, how are you feeling about getting all those answers? Because, like, I'd basically gotten all the answers while I was with you girls of, like, confirmation of, like, everything looks normal. And I Was like, it's really frustrating, but I. And she's like, are you going to continue testing? I was like, yeah, I think so. Like, I just don't. I feel peace on that. That just feels like the most logical thing to do. I, like, God would have to literally get me pregnant, dude, for me to not go down that route at this point. And I told her that I come home. I told Landon the news of, like, hey, I got everything looks normal. I got all the answers officially. And I was bawling my eyes out that night with him. I was like, sobbing. I was like, I just want a baby. I literally, like, tearing up thinking about it. I was like, I just want a baby. Like, I don't understand why this is so hard. And it's so frustrating to get, like, all the doors, like, slammed in your face and to feel like this is going to take months and months and months to try to figure out who. I didn't think I'd get emotional. And then the next morning.

[Lindsay Roman]

So what you're telling me is that you were emotionally hormonal, shall we say?

[Evvi McLeod]

I guess, apparently, because literally the next morning, I was like, two or three days late on my period, but I had been nine days late the month before. I remember you and I were both very late on that period the month before because both of us were, like, taking multiple pregnancy tests, and we were like, what is going on?

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, mine was just late because I was, I think, international travel, which was.

[Evvi McLeod]

Probably mine too, and also a miscarriage, like, two, three months before, however long it had been at that point. But when I was like, two or three days late, I was like, there's no way. But once I hit. At least at that point, I was like, once I've hit, like, a few days late, I'm just gonna do the.

[Lindsay Roman]

Test the morning, like, so that Saturday morning, you took a pregnancy test at.

[Evvi McLeod]

Like, 7:00am all right, entrepreneurs, let's face it.

[Lindsay Roman]

You're in a pickle. You're not attracting your ideal clients because your brand visuals are just. Just meh at best, and you're not showing up as the professional ready to make their life 500 times better. Do you honestly feel like your website just sucks? Like, your branding feels like you created it in Microsoft's Paint? Anyone else remember Microsoft's Paint? Is that just me? Okay. And your. Your client experience just overall feels like it's seriously lacking and you just need a change right now. But let's be honest. You're not ready to drop 8k on a custom web and brand Design. Well, don't worry, that's where we come in.

[Evvi McLeod]

Introducing the solution to all of your website struggles. The Heart Shop website templates. Now, we spent hours designing these customizable, professional and conversion intense website templates with our incredible designer, Sarah Crook of Elizabeth Designs. They are so incredibly easy to use and customize with Showit's user friendly interface. Yes, by the way, you can easily learn how to work with Showit even if you've never touched a website or any design platform before. And you can change literally anything you want. No more being limited to squares on your website. It's a drag and drop system that is freaking easy and looks incredible. Oh, oh, you want more information?

[Lindsay Roman]

Cool.

[Evvi McLeod]

I got you. The templates come already. SEO optimized with copy prompts from Lindsay and I included. Yeah, you don't just get nonsensical filler text. You get bomb education and prompts from Lindsay and I to help you wow your potential clients and crush your website copy. And we designed a variety of the in different styles so you can find the closest match and then tweak it to make it fully your own.

[Lindsay Roman]

If you're ready to save thousands of dollars and hours upon hours upon hours of your time and get clients flooding through your website, you need to check these out. So grab [e-mail] website templates one more time. That's theheartuniversity.com website templates. If you're enjoying what you're getting in this podcast for free, then you're about to get your mind blown with what we offer in our education courses. If you're ready to uplevel your business, serve your clients like never before, and reach revenue goals that you've barely dared to dream of, then we're ready to help.

[Evvi McLeod]

Our courses are packed full of tools, formulas, strategies and resources to help you kick freaking butt in biz. Whether you choose the photo Major, a complete course for photographers, or the content Photo Minor, a mini course on how to finally slay your content photos for your blog. Insta Headshots, whatever. You will walk away with more knowledge than you ever thought possible. And here's the reality. We are here to see you succeed always and forever. And that is why we created each and every one of these courses.

[Lindsay Roman]

To check them out for yourself, read the reviews and look at each course syllabus, go to theheartuniversity.com forward/courses. That's theheartuniversity.com forward slash courses. Oh. See, I feel like I'm the kind of person I Usually wait, like, five days.

[Evvi McLeod]

No, I think I just. I think I just wanted to, like.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, you weren't even trying, though, so what made you think you were pregnant?

[Evvi McLeod]

I. I just always think I'm pregnant. Like, every. Every. It's one of those things. My. I'm usually very consistent with my cycle. So if I'm ever a few days, which this was after a miscarriage, after a surgery, after international travel, I've been nine days late the month before. But it was just one of those things that I think I was, like, three days late, and I was like, I just. I take a test, I rule it out. I can move on with my life. Like, that was literally my mindset. I did not think I was pregnant. I just wanted to confirm that I was not. Do you know what I mean?

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, it was peace of mind.

[Evvi McLeod]

It was like this thought process of like. Like, let me just confirm so I can continue my life.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, you didn't continue your life.

[Evvi McLeod]

There. There were two lines on that stick. And I literally. That was the biggest shock of my entire life because I was. I did not think I was pregnant. I did not feel pregnant. I did not have a single symptom of pregnancy. I was just simply confirming that I was not.

[Lindsay Roman]

Just because your period was a few days late.

[Evvi McLeod]

Right. And we were not trying. We were preventing. I had just gotten all of these answers back. Basically telling me you're perfect. No. Well, we have not. No. Basically telling me all of the easy solutions to recurrent miscarriages, all the things for the.

[Lindsay Roman]

You did the blood test for was like, normal, perfection, correct, all that.

[Evvi McLeod]

So it was like something much more complicated is probably going on is what I had read right, by those tests in my head.

[Lindsay Roman]

I mean, it didn't say that, but.

[Evvi McLeod]

No, but you're inferring. But I'm. My interpretation of it was great. All of the easy solutions are fine. Are gone. Right now I have to figure out and resolve all of the most complicated ones. So the emotions that hit me in that moment, I. Absolute ecstasy, total panic, complete joy, complete terror, fear, excitement. Everything hit at once in that moment because I did not expect it. I did not know what to do. I was like. Part of me was like, oh, my gosh, this is God. And the other part of me was like, oh, my gosh, I'm gonna go through this again. It was so completely split, terrified. I told Landon. Like, 30 minutes later, he got up. We were doing our Bible on the couc couch. I told him his reaction to me is priceless. That man literally like, like, just stared and goes, are you. Are you serious? Are you. Are you joking? Like, there was no.

[Lindsay Roman]

You immediately came out of the bathroom. There was no, like, reveal. It was just like, bro.

[Evvi McLeod]

No, I. Technically, because I had. I. I was literally so completely continuing on with my day. I, like, had had dipped the stick in the bathroom and then, like, put it back in, like, the little sleeve or something and car the kitchen with me and, like, had set it on the counter to, like, you know, do its thing, take its time. Was feeding copper was preparing to start breakfast. Like, I was just like, yeah, moving on with my day. Landon was, like, finishing getting out of bed, taking a shower, getting dressed. So I waited for him to, like, get ready, and I was, like, sitting on the couch with my Bible. And I. I just enjoy filming stuff from my memories. So I had, like, pulled out my phone to, like, film, and I told him. I was like, oh, the light coming through just looks so pretty right now. But I was like, Like, I was filming him, and then I handed him, like, a little basket with, like, a one.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's impressive that you thought through the aesthetics of a. Of a husband reveal amidst all of.

[Evvi McLeod]

Those emotions, so close to just sprinting into him still laying in the bed and be like, oh, my God. Like, I was so close. But I was like, okay, this is already terrifying enough. I'm. I want to make it at least a little bit, like, happy. Try to. And not just panicked. Um, so anyways, I told him that was just such a process. So that day. That day I was like, okay, I don't know what to do at this point, because this is absolutely not in the plan. This was not planned in any way. I just got all these answers back, whatever. And so I. Literally, the one thing that I was like, I don't know what it was. I don't know what made me do it, but I was like, I'm getting my progesterone drawn that day. That day. I'm going into the lab today right now. I am checking that progesterone again.

[Lindsay Roman]

Why was the progesterone the one thing out of all the tests, though? That's it.

[Evvi McLeod]

Because typically. Typically, I. I think I knew that your progesterone can fluctuate a. Throughout your cycle in general. But I also knew that it could fluctuate a bit more with pregnancy and non. Not pregnant.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay.

[Evvi McLeod]

Whereas stuff like some of the autoimmune stuff that they tested or the blood clotting tends to be consistent throughout. So if it came back negative or normal on the testing, it was most like very, very likely that it was negative, normal period. But the progesterone, I knew there was like, a chance that it could still be an. A possible issue. And so I, I ran in, got my blood drawn. That morning, it was Saturday, December 7th. I got it. I literally sprinted into the lab 20 minutes before they closed. I ordered it myself online, called the company I had ordered it from, was like, can you rush this confirmation and this order through now? Because I have to get into the lab. Walked into this lab, which I've discovered now after going there many, many, many, many, many times in this pregnancy that 9 times out of 10, they can't accept a walk in because they're so packed. So I don't know how they fit me in. It was a whole thing. I got my blood drawn the next morning, I got an answer. My progesterone had dropped significantly and should not be doing that. It should be increasing in pregnancy. And it was almost to the point, almost to the number, very close, dangerously close to the number that you hit hit and causes your body to miscarry. Like, very close to it. And I was like four weeks pregnant. So immediately texted my midwife. Jordan was also like. She and I were texting and talking a lot through this of, like, I, like, told her I was getting it drawn. She was like, great, awesome. I, like, sent her the results. She was like, bro, get on progesterone now. I was like, that's what I thought. Texted my midwife Midwest, like, yeah, I'll put an order for you. You will get it in in like three or four days. I was like, I know. Get an order for me today. Now, this Sunday, December 8th. I need it now. So I immediately got on progesterone and from there, medically, I was able to connect with a napro physician, an MD who specializes, essentially, we talked about this on Jordan's episode, but who specializes in, like, miscarriage prevention, like hormone support, is very. Has a lot more training on this. The recent studies on progesterone, estradiol, other things that are, you know, miscarriage, whatever. My first call with him, I sat down and I explained everything, everything that I was doing because I met with him, like, I think I was seven or eight weeks. So I met with him like a month after. So I was, I was into my pregnancy and I was like, hey, I'm doing this. My. I'm on this progesterone. I've taken. I've, you know, I doubled the dose of what my midwife told me to Do. Because on my own research, I knew that it was a. Her dose was, I thought, a little too low.

[Lindsay Roman]

You take too much. Like, is that even a thing?

[Evvi McLeod]

No, not really. I mean, why would they not tell you?

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, slam it. I mean, like, what's the harm?

[Evvi McLeod]

The norm in the medicine, pregnancy is just kind of silly, but you know what I'm saying?

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, if you can't hurt. Hurt by taking too much, but you definitely can be hurt by.

[Evvi McLeod]

I know. It was a whole thing.

[Lindsay Roman]

Why would you, like, take 10?

[Evvi McLeod]

I was monitoring my progesterone. I had. I. I had a chart from naprotechnology, knowing kind of what range my progesterone should be in. I was taking the dose to keep me in that range that I knew was, like, a good range of, like, my progesterone levels.

[Lindsay Roman]

And the only way to know is to get, like, blood drawn every day.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah, the first. The first week it was drawn every two days because I was also testing my HCG and making sure my HCG was doubling every 48 hours or 48 to 72 hours. And I was checking my progesterone. For the first, like, I think week, I did HCG and progesterone. And then the second week, I just did progesterone. And then the third week, I went to, like, every three or four days on progesterone, testing it. And then I got connected to my napro. But when I was talking to my napper on the first call, I was explaining everything I was doing. I was like, I've been testing this. Here are all of my levels here, all my reports. Here's the dose I'm taking. I'm taking this, this here, and this. And he literally was like, why am I on this call? He's like, okay, doctor. Like, he was so. He was so, like, quirky, like, goofing off with me. And he's like, no, seriously, like, this is impressive, like, what you've, like, figured out and taken into your own hands. I was like, yeah, because I kind of realized I couldn't trust the medical system to take care of me and protect this baby. And so I'm gonna figure it out, and I'm gonna do it. But he was amazing. He then, like, stepped in and really helped me monitor. Helped me monitor the estradiol, which I didn't know to monitor. Helped me on dosage, like, all of that. He was literally such a godsend. I spotted at one point in this pregnancy and kind of, like, freaked out, obviously, over it, but reached out to him. He Immediately sent me in for an ultrasound. We found a subchorionic hematoma, which can be like a risk and can have possible consequences, but is also very normal in pregnancy. And most doctors, obs, midwives will literally tell you, oh, it's so be normal, no big deal. Don't even. You don't even you spot it a little bit. Very normal, don't worry about it. But this, my, my napa was just very proactive and which was very comforting for me after two losses to have somebody that I was like, I know my chances of a miscarriage from an sch. Subchorionic hematoma are low, but there is a chance and I'm not playing with my chances right now. So. He was incredible. Genuinely, he is. I've told multiple friends, I'm like, this man helped me save this baby from a just purely scientific, factual, such a God story of getting me connected with him and his support through all of this has been amazing. So progesterone apparently was like, like the big cause.

[Lindsay Roman]

Even though, even though when you got your testing done in between second and.

[Evvi McLeod]

Third baby, I will say when I connected with the, with the napro and told him I le, like, gave him the reports of my levels, he's like, that's way too low.

[Lindsay Roman]

Even though they said it was normal.

[Evvi McLeod]

I was like, but it says within range. Like it's on the. A little bit. It wasn't like at the bottom of a range. It was like towards, you know, the lower side. But he was like, no. If I had seen that report and this was the frustrating part for me with all of this is like. And obviously if it, if it has been progesterone, which I. There's such a 99% chance that that's really what it was based on my story now and my tests and you know, everything. Like, my progesterone has stayed where it's needed to be with me on progesterone for almost so far this entire pregnancy.

[Lindsay Roman]

But like, what causes low progesterone? Do you know?

[Evvi McLeod]

Like, that's so that's the thing. My levels were okay. Not great, but okay. Not pregnant during pregnancy. They dropped. I don't know what has caused that. But typically low progesterone is caused by like, you know, a hormonal imbalance. You're not eating certain foods, you're not getting the nutrients you need. You are. There are certain things like your adrenals are overworking. Like, I don't know for sure. I know more of like, here's how I Try to support and increase my progesterone, which I've been doing for like, two years. And my progesterone levels were okay outside of pregnancy, but during pregnancy they dropped, which I don't fully understand. Why. I don't. I don't know that answer yet. It's actually a good question. But what was the thing I was saying? Progesterone. There was something else.

[Lindsay Roman]

You were. Your napro doctor helped save the baby.

[Evvi McLeod]

No, I don't remember. If I remember, I'll come back to it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, my. My thought is, okay, so you're doing all of this. You connect with your napro doctor. Is there.

[Evvi McLeod]

How.

[Lindsay Roman]

How was your faith? Like, what was like, any God. Yeah, like, let's navigate to, like, the more so happy faith part of the conversation because not on video.

[Evvi McLeod]

I'm pulling out my journal and my Bible. It's time to go.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, what? Because you mentioned you were almost relying on statistics more with the second one than. Than the Lord. Not that you weren't relying on the Lord, but it was just like, more imbalanced. What was different about this time? Like, the second you felt that terror and you saw the stick, what did you immediately do? Like, not physically with the testing, but more spiritually, emotionally. Yeah.

[Evvi McLeod]

I'm so happy you asked, Lindsay.

[Lindsay Roman]

I'm so glad.

[Evvi McLeod]

Let me just flip in my Bible. So there was. I skipped over a lot of this because this episode would be five hours long if I didn't skip over. But my second loss last summer was a. I don't even know how to explain it. Something. I think I actually wrote it in my. In my journal.

[Lindsay Roman]

Allow her one moment to flip through.

[Evvi McLeod]

Pardon me. Yeah, I can read that in a second. I wrote in my journal, like, I feel such an awakening in my spirit in this season.

[Lindsay Roman]

That was when you were pregnant with the second one.

[Evvi McLeod]

This is when I found out I was pregnant with the third. But it was in general after the loss of the second. Something in me, like, I've always been, like, I would say, like, super close with the Lord. Like, I'm always, you know, I've grown up with, like, a spirit filled, like, Christian household. Like, my walk with God has always been very, very integral and a part of my life. But something shifted last summer that I was like. And I think it happens often when you, like, go through, like, a season of grief. And there was a lot.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, I feel like.

[Evvi McLeod]

I feel like grief.

[Lindsay Roman]

Grief for. For people either pulls them away from God or. Or draws them closer.

[Evvi McLeod]

Oh, it shoves me into his arms. That's. So. It was. It was very much like I was literally and. And still am. Like, it was a point that I was like, I'm back in my Word. Like, two plus hours a day. Like, morning and night, my Bible is open on the counter. Throughout the day, I am flipping through. I am walking, like, around the house. Like, repeating scripture. Like, it was. It took me into another season, dimension, new depth, another dimension, another. It was just another season of new depth with God that was just like I was. He was my source of everything. Navigating my second loss and then, like, a surgery and then, you know, like, possible house flooding and just trusting him that we might not have a place to live. Like, there was just, like, so much in all of that. That. That Psalm 23 especially was ministering to me so much of, like, specifically the line, he restores my soul.

[Lindsay Roman]

Can you read it? Just so in case anybody doesn't know what that is immediately.

[Evvi McLeod]

And they don't want.

[Lindsay Roman]

They're lazy, and they don't want to pull it up themselves.

[Evvi McLeod]

I mean, get in your Bible, friend. It is.

[Lindsay Roman]

Why not? Like, in this moment, they can pull it up later.

[Evvi McLeod]

But, like, yeah, the whole Psalm, I mean, whatever.

[Lindsay Roman]

Just like, the main part.

[Evvi McLeod]

The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me. Your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with oil. My cup overflows. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life, and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's so beautiful. That makes me think of the. I mean, it's clearly a worship song.

[Evvi McLeod]

That was.

[Lindsay Roman]

That was based on that. But the. The. I'm gonna. I'm gonna just absolutely annihilate this because the. Even though I walk through no good. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil. What song is that?

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah. Even though I walk. Oh, Bethel Music.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay, great.

[Evvi McLeod]

Hannah McClure.

[Lindsay Roman]

Just ignore that very powerful song.

[Evvi McLeod]

That also. While.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, go listen to that actual song. Don't listen to me singing that song.

[Evvi McLeod]

While that. While 23 was, like, wrecking my socks off, that song came out in my. Oh, really?

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, yeah.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah. It was, like, last September.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's awesome.

[Evvi McLeod]

So, like, within a few weeks or a month of me miscarrying, that song came out. Wow. Blasting it through my house. Anyways, yeah, so Psalm 23 was huge. Like, there was a whole God story. I can't even get into the God story of God ministering to me through my healing and my grieving and, like, everything processing the second baby. But the thing I want to highlight in that, which is really cool, is that he had given me Psalm 27, 13, and 14. And I literally have a note in my Bible, September 9th, after the second loss, God said to hold firm and declare this. And the verse is, I believe that I shall look upon the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord. Be strong and let your heart take courage. Wait for the Lord. So for me, that verse, I believe I shall look upon the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living was like, very much. I mean, you don't even have. Need an interpretation for that. You can. You can interpret that yourself based on my life, but that was huge. But within, I literally, just like, literally in my journal, I said. What did I say? There's just like so much in this. But within the first 30 minutes of finding out I was pregnant.

[Lindsay Roman]

Is this what you wrote in that moment? Yeah, December 7th.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah, I didn't. I didn't write this within 30 minutes. But, like, I think it was the day after I found out or the day I found out or something. I, like, was recapping stuff.

[Lindsay Roman]

Got it, got it, got it.

[Evvi McLeod]

I said within the first 30 minutes of finding out when I was about to tell Landon, because I remember I sat down pretending to read my Bible. I mean, I actually, I actually was. But I was very strategically, like, because we read our Bible together every morning and I was like, like waiting for him to come join me. So I sat down on the couch where we always read and flipped open my Bible. And I flipped open. I said, I flipped open my Bible and what verse do you suppose I saw? Psalm 27, 13, 14.

[Lindsay Roman]

Wait, you randomly flipped open.

[Evvi McLeod]

Okay. Psalms 27, 13, 14. I believe that I shall look and see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wow. And I said, like, oh, Jesus, the verse that he gave me to pray and declare over future babies he brings in front of me within minutes of finding about out about this redemption child.

[Lindsay Roman]

Wow.

[Evvi McLeod]

Isn't that crazy? And then what was it? There's so much the next day. So on Sunday, I felt a strong tug and conviction to pray scriptures. I spent probably two hours Pacing my living room, singing, praying, weeping, declaring over this baby, this womb of mine, our home, our marriage, everything. I especially felt a tug to Psalm 91 and stayed there for a long time. Specifically, I felt verse seven and continually declared, miscarriage will not come near me. Which is obviously a interpretation of that verse. But if you haven't prayed scripture before, friend, oh, my goodness, do it, do it.

[Lindsay Roman]

So wait, wait, you said it was.

[Evvi McLeod]

Psalm 29, Psalm 91, verse 7, which says, A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come here near you. And I was just declaring, like, that verse of, like, I am protected.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evvi McLeod]

From everything happening in the, you know, around me. Everything in the natural. I am protected from, like, it will not come near me. I was like, miscarriage will not come near me.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evvi McLeod]

Verse 14 through 16 reads, because he hold, holds fast to me in love, I will deliver him. I will protect him because he knows my name. When he calls to me, I will answer him. I will be with him in trouble. I will rescue him and honor him with long life. I will satisfy him and show him my salvation.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's 91.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah. Psalm 91, 14, 16. And as I was praying scripture, I was praying, you know, he will deliver me. He will protect me and this baby because I know his name. With long life, he will satisfy this child and show them his salvation. Like, those were the things that I was, like, praying. And there was so much anointing over those prayers. And as I was praying, specifically, Psalm 27:13, like, I will see your goodness in the land of the living. I will see this child in the land of the living. Like, I was declaring that this was a fun moment for me of. I was, like, pacing the room, have my Bible open, and my hand is just pacing, praying Scripture. And I was like, what did I say? I said, I felt so strongly to keep declaring life over this child and my womb and my body. I even had the audacity to remind God. And I said, I genuinely felt that I had to frame it in that way. Like, God, I will remind you. I will remind you of John 10:10. I was literally pacing my living. I told this to a friend. She was like, girl, you got guts to like. Because I was, like, praying. I was like, I will see your goodness in the land of living. You know what God, you are God of life. Let me just remind you.

[Lindsay Roman]

Allow me to remind you of what you wrote.

[Evvi McLeod]

And I flipped. I flipped to John 10:10, which says, in case you don't know, friend, it says, the thief comes only to steal, kill and destroy. I came that you may have life and have it abundantly.

[Lindsay Roman]

And you're so, like. So just let me remind you, literally.

[Evvi McLeod]

Like, pacing my living room, like, finger stabbing into my Bible at John 10:10. I was like, God, you said. You said you are the God of life. You don't come to steal, kill and destroy. Like, that is the enemy's activity. That is not your activity. You bring life. And I am declaring that. I am like, so. I was, like, so locked in on it, which was really cool. And I felt like abundant life. I felt like that was like a big thing that God was saying over this pregnancy from day one.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evvi McLeod]

I felt like God was like, you need to be declaring life over this child. Like, actively interceding for this child and declaring life, which was funny. I then had a conversation with my mom a few days later, and I was like, telling her about it. And I was like, yeah, I reminded God of John 10:10. And she's like, you know, God says to remind us. Us, like, tells us to remind him of his promises to us. And I was like, what? And she was like, no, seriously. And I'm not going to take the time necessarily, unless you think I should, Linds. But, like, there are multiple verses in Isaiah and in Psalm. I think one of them is Psalm 119. The other is Isaiah 40. Hang on. Actually, I could pull up the reference.

[Lindsay Roman]

Where it basically it like. It's like, remind me of.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah. Psalm 119. Remember your word to your servant. This is speaking to God in which you have made me hope. This is my comfort in my affliction, that your promise gives me life. But it's the concept of, hey, remember your word to me. Remember your promise. And then Isaiah 43:26, God is saying, put me in remembrance of my word. Let us argue together. It's like a whole thing. So Isaiah 43:26 and then Isaiah 62:6 put the Lord in remembrance of his promises. I think that one says, do not, not give up until he has restored Jerusalem.

[Lindsay Roman]

So biblically valid.

[Evvi McLeod]

Apparently. I didn't. I mean, I didn't think God was going to smite me for reminding him of his John 10:10 promise. But it was really cool later for my mom to be like, you know, God actually has told us and given us permission. And then obviously the story of, like, Abraham, like, interceding for lot in.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evvi McLeod]

In Genesis, where he's like, well, God, what if? And he's like negotiating with God to.

[Lindsay Roman]

I feel like that Happens a lot in the Old Testament.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah, it's like God, I think so many of us are like believe that and, and not that God isn't sovereign in any way, but God loves partnering with us and we have the ability to lock in and to remind God of, of his promises to, in some ways, I mean this could theologically, Please take this understanding like how in the moment that I'm like talking about this too. What I mean, and don't take it out of context, but, but like with Abraham and lot, Abraham literally changed God's mind. Granted, God probably knew that was gonna happen and God did know that was gonna happen. And God wanted that to happen. He didn't wanna go, you know, kill all of these people, whatever. But like we have authority in partnering with God and that was just like, I was just being reminded of that so much. There's so much I could say.

[Lindsay Roman]

No, I, I, I wanna interject here. I feel like, I feel the Lord telling me to ask this question because I feel like somebody is listening to this, that needs this exploit or like needs this to be said or, or explained maybe. Oh, this is, this is very theological. How do you, how would you explain it with versus Like I forget.

[Evvi McLeod]

You bring life and life abundantly.

[Lindsay Roman]

You bring life and life abundantly. I like, like I came to. What was the thief one?

[Evvi McLeod]

The enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy. The thief comes to steal.

[Lindsay Roman]

I come to give you life and life abundantly. How do you reconcile that and that God is not a God of death or he is a God of life, he is a God of giving his children abundant blessings. How do you reconcile that with loss or with bad things? It doesn't have to just be miscarriage for anybody. It could be maybe a simpler way to say that is like, why do bad things happen? Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

[Evvi McLeod]

I mean, it's so theological, but at the end of the day, it's like we live in a fallen world, we live in a broken world. Sin entered the world through Adam and Eve. And I, ironically in my life, not ironically. I don't know how to describe this. I've never struggled with thinking God has caused things. I don't think God has caused anything. I think there has just simply been consequences to a broken world.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like sin exists in the world.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah. And simple factual things exist. Like, like there aren't the nutrients in our soil and in our food these days. And there are more chemicals and, you know, GMOs and, and so many other things that cause more women's Bodies to be out of whack hormonally that would cause possibly me to have low progesterone that plummets in pregnancy, that cause two losses. I don't think God, not that he's not sovereign and that he's not in control and that he couldn't be a, like a puppet master and make everything be perfect. But I don't think God is the person who looked down and was like, that baby should die.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Evvi McLeod]

Like that's. I've never felt that. And I think I, like I so firmly believe that, that yes, bad things happen. Absolutely. But God is not the person who is maliciously causing them. There is an element that you do have to reconcile with in the sense that God could stop them.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, that that was my almost follow up is like he's not maybe the puppet master causing him because sin exists in the world and we live in a fallen, broken world. But how do you reconcile the fact that like what you just said, he has the power to stop those bad things from happening?

[Evvi McLeod]

Maybe this is so deep question.

[Lindsay Roman]

Sorry.

[Evvi McLeod]

No, you're good, you're good.

[Lindsay Roman]

I think someone out there needs to hear that though, though, especially from somebody. Not that I'm not, but like you've been so, especially in this pregnancy. I feel like you've been so full of faith in the midst of like, no God, I will hold to this promise and like you are for this baby.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

How do you reconcile the fact that he didn't do that for the other ones or any bad thing in life, like, you know what I'm saying?

[Evvi McLeod]

This is where I want to be careful with how I say this. This is not going to be a, like I'm on the spot in this moment. This is not going to be me thinking and spending hours in prayer and getting all the right wor. And, and putting it on paper and feeling very confidently like pulling up scripture theologically, like here's how I'm going to communicate this to you. So, so bear with me friend, as I just kind of share thoughts. There is an element, I want to be so careful with how I say this. There is an element of our personal responsibility and opportunity to co labor with God on the earth that he has set us as the his, like stewards, advocates, whatever you want to say, representatives here on earth that our call is to bring heaven to earth. And there is an element, and I don't want to say this in the sense of like, oh, I think it's my fault that my babies died.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right.

[Evvi McLeod]

Because I Don't. But I, I do think that there is an opportunity, I wonder if to, to press in. Yes. I really wonder if had I pressed in harder and more. And I don't take this as guilt, Like, I don't feel any shame, guilt, heaviness over this at all. Like none.

[Lindsay Roman]

And it's not like you're saying, you're not saying bad things happen because you didn't trust God or like prayed enough stuff.

[Evvi McLeod]

No, not at all.

[Lindsay Roman]

So don't, don't take that as what she's saying.

[Evvi McLeod]

It's just more of like, had I pressed in, in the way that I did with this pregnancy on my first or my second, would I have been in the position to hear God speaking and saying, go test your progesterone before this, this pregnancy, you know, like, it's more of, it's one of those things that I.

[Lindsay Roman]

He's there speaking, he's there. But did we, did we have, have we always taken the opportunity to press in or to like.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah. And I want to be so careful with when I say that because I'm like, it's not, it's not my fault. It's. It's just simply that the world is broken and, and things are messed up and they're not the way God wants them. But that does not change God's character.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evvi McLeod]

And, and that also, in a way, at least for me, I feel gives me so much freedom and excitement because I have at my fingertips at all times the king of the universe who created the universe, who is the most powerful being in the world, who is on my side. And I have the opportunity to press in, to partner with him, to see things from his perspective and not mine, to receive His Word and not mine. And I think not that that will solve all of your problems and that nothing bad will ever happen to you. If you're like, if you do that, if you're perfect with God and it becomes something that's like workspace and you have to do something. But to me, I'm like, okay, something really crappy happened and that freaking sucks. And I know God is weeping over this child exactly the way I am, but I also, I think there's also an element that I haven't touched on yet that there, God will always, always redeem a situation. He will turn like the absolute beauty from ashes. Yes. The absolute deepest of, of graves, of messy, just horrible situations into the most powerful world changing, life changing situations. And I think in those moments when I'm like, crap S h I t just happened and just went down in my life. I am going to choose to turn to the Lord and to say, how can I turn this into beauty in my life and for those around me.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evvi McLeod]

And so it kind of like, it's a very theological thing to be like, why do bad things happen and how is it not God's fault? And how do we stop bad things from happening? But at least for me, it all boils down to. I want to be so locked in with the Lord that even when like, crap hits the fan.

[Lindsay Roman]

Because it will in life.

[Evvi McLeod]

Because it will. And some things too are beyond our. Like, other people are involved and other people's actions have constant.

[Lindsay Roman]

Everyone has free will.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Which is like, obviously why a good chunk of bad things happen in the world. Because we have free will.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah, absolutely. And it's one of those things that's like, you know, I'm not saying like we are responsible and we are the, you know, whatever. Like there's. But there is an element of God has given us an opportunity to a relationship with him that I genuinely like. The stories that you've heard of people being like, God told me not to drive to work that day. And on that day, on that drive to work, the bridge collapsed.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right.

[Evvi McLeod]

And I would have been on that bridge at that time. Like, things like that. That it's just like when you're close with God, you hear him speaking in a different way. And I just, I, I don't know. I don't know how to explain that.

[Lindsay Roman]

I feel, I feel like you explained it really well. That, okay, I feel like was really good. That's me being dumb in language, but saying like a really eloquent moment. That was really powerful.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like rewind and listen to like the last 10 minutes of her just talking.

[Evvi McLeod]

About theology on the spot.

[Lindsay Roman]

No, that was because you, you so eloquently nuanced. Just you gave a good explanation of the nuance of the situation. It's not like, oh, if you just pray harder and like really lean into God, it's not works at all.

[Evvi McLeod]

It's not about, I have to do these things or check this off my list.

[Lindsay Roman]

But we do have the opportunity. Every single person on planet Earth, even you, listener, who, who maybe doesn't even believe in God. Even if you don't believe in God, he's still there. Well, I mean, again, that's my belief. It's true. But maybe that's arrogant of me to say, like, he is for you and he's waiting for you to press and he's Waiting for a relationship. He wants that from you.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Whether or not you want it, he wants it from you.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And everybody has that opportunity to press in.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And when you do that.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yeah. It.

[Lindsay Roman]

It changes your life.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yes.

[Lindsay Roman]

Irrevocably.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yes. Okay, well, there is so much. Can I share one more thing?

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, my gosh, please.

[Evvi McLeod]

Because I know there's so much. There is literally, like. Like, there's so much that I could share on this that God has spoken to me in this pregnancy.

[Lindsay Roman]

Are we on time? Are we.

[Evvi McLeod]

I don't know when Joe Roganing this.

[Lindsay Roman]

When's our next interview?

[Evvi McLeod]

12:30. What time is it?

[Lindsay Roman]

Our interview is at 12:30.

[Evvi McLeod]

Well, yeah. What time is it? What time it are?

[Lindsay Roman]

No, it's 1212.

[Evvi McLeod]

Okay.

[Lindsay Roman]

We were supposed to have lunch. It's fine. This was more important than eating.

[Evvi McLeod]

Well, no, but, like, you didn't say anything. I was like, are we late for.

[Lindsay Roman]

Is it really 12?

[Evvi McLeod]

How long has this episode been recording? Wow.

[Lindsay Roman]

We just went into a. A dimension.

[Evvi McLeod]

I feel like it's been maybe an hour.

[Lindsay Roman]

No, it's been more than an hour. Wow, that's so good, guys.

[Evvi McLeod]

Maybe we need to split this into two parts. Like the long maybe.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, this is. Yeah, no, it's at 12:30. This is good. This is good. We're gonna need to wrap up whether we like it or not.

[Evvi McLeod]

I didn't even get to the part about fear. That's what I'm saying. Like, how I dealt with the fear on this third pregnancy. See.

[Lindsay Roman]

Do we say to be continued? Ooh, I actually think we should. I think. I think. Hold that. I actually think. I think this is the best way to stop it. Do you have enough to say on a part two?

[Evvi McLeod]

Oh, girl.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay.

[Evvi McLeod]

Oh, girl.

[Lindsay Roman]

To be continued.

[Evvi McLeod]

To be continued. Thank you also, listener, for bearing with us for however long this has been.

[Lindsay Roman]

I think people will really appreciate the length of this, though. It was really cool to hear your entire story. Well, not even your entire story.

[Evvi McLeod]

This was such a Cliff Notes version too. That's the crazy thing. And I haven't even gotten hysterical that.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, literally we scheduled this interview to. For this talk to be an hour long with, like, then an hour long lunch break.

[Evvi McLeod]

Okay. Anyways, we love you, friends.

[Lindsay Roman]

We're just gonna end it. To be continued.

[Evvi McLeod]

To be continued. Maybe we should do. Maybe we can talk about this. Maybe we should do, like, like, back to back solo so people don't have to wait, like, weeks for.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, maybe we'll figure that out.

[Evvi McLeod]

But in the meantime, while you're waiting for the next part. Feel free to message me if you have questions based on anything that was said today, or if this blessed you, if this spoke to you, if this encouraged you, if you want to hear even more details about anything I shared about today because it was such a 30,000 foot view in a lot of ways. Like I'm just here and I'm happy to share and be an open book in any way.

[Lindsay Roman]

But amazing. Well, that's it.

[Evvi McLeod]

Cliffhanger.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's all folks. And we will see you on part two in a week or two. Ish.

[Evvi McLeod]

Yes, we love you friend.

[Lindsay Roman]

Sam.