Episode Summary: Building a Strong Marriage - Should It Make Us Holy or Happy with Gary Thomas

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Heart & Hustle Podcast
• Hosts: Evie McLeod & Lindsey Roman
• Episode: 440: Building a Strong Marriage - Should It Make Us Holy or Happy with Gary Thomas
• Release Date: July 8, 2025

Introduction

In Episode 440 of The Heart & Hustle Podcast, hosts Evie McLeod and Lindsey Roman engage in a profound conversation with renowned author and speaker Gary Thomas. The episode delves into the intricate dynamics of marriage, exploring whether marriage is designed to make individuals holy or simply happy. Emphasizing the transformative power of marriage in fostering personal and spiritual growth, Gary Thomas shares invaluable insights drawn from his bestselling book, Sacred Marriage.

Guest Introduction

[00:30] Evie McLeod: "This episode was so powerful and is about to, I truly believe, impact and change your marriage or your future marriage if you are unmarried at this moment, forever."

Gary Thomas is introduced as a bestselling author and international speaker whose ministry integrates scripture, church history, and Christian classics to nurture spiritual growth and deeper relationships within the Christian community.

Core Discussion: Marriage as a Mirror for Personal Growth

Marriage for Holiness Over Happiness

[06:49] Lindsey Roman: "In your book Sacred Marriage, you pose a striking question which I think presents a really good question that we should consider in marriage, really hone in on, which is what if God designed marriage to make us holy more than happy?"

Gary Thomas unpacks this concept, explaining that marriage serves as a "giant mirror" reflecting our true selves. He discusses how married life exposes personal flaws and encourages continuous self-improvement:

[12:30] Gary Thomas: "I can allow my marriage to destroy my sin, or I can allow my sin to destroy my marriage."

Thomas emphasizes that addressing personal shortcomings within marriage leads to spiritual growth and a stronger relationship with both God and one’s spouse.

Contempt vs. Cherishing

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around the destructive nature of contempt in marriages and the importance of cherishing one another:

[02:09] Evie McLeod: "Contempt. Yeah, that's the word. It is one of the core tenants that can rip a marriage apart and completely destroy the love we talked about."

Gary elaborates on how contempt often arises from comparing one’s spouse to others, leading to dissatisfaction and resentment. He stresses the necessity of focusing on positive qualities to foster a loving and supportive marriage environment.

[24:34] Gary Thomas: "If you want to get away from contempt and move toward cherishing, you got to start calling your husband Adam. And guys that are listening, we got to call our wives Eve."

By viewing their spouse as unique and chosen, couples can eliminate comparisons and appreciate each other's distinct strengths and weaknesses.

Practical Tools and Reflective Questions

Gary Thomas provides actionable advice for couples aiming to prioritize holiness and cherishing in their marriages:

Self-Reflection Exercise

[18:34] Gary Thomas: "What's the most difficult thing about being married to me? ... Saying, hey, babe, what do you think is the most difficult thing about being married to me?"

This exercise encourages individuals to introspect and communicate openly about their perceived shortcomings, fostering mutual understanding and growth.

Philippians 4:8 as a Guiding Principle

[36:04] Gary Thomas: "I like Philippians 4:8. Starting out, whatever is true, there will be legitimate frustrations in marriage. But instead of jumping to contempt, instead of jumping to judgment, ask yourself..."

This scripture serves as a framework for couples to focus on positive thoughts and qualities about each other, replacing negative perceptions with appreciation and love.

Daily Gratitude Practice

Gary shares his personal practice of maintaining a journal to record daily appreciations for his wife:

[43:14] Gary Thomas: "I began every day... thanking her for something she did the day before specifically... it changed the way I prayed about her."

This habit helps in continuously recognizing and valuing each other’s contributions, strengthening the marital bond.

Overcoming Infatuation Decline

The conversation addresses the natural decline of infatuation over time and how choosing to cherish can sustain and deepen love beyond initial attraction:

[35:15] Gary Thomas: "Infatuation, neuroscientist stellis has a 12 to 18 months shelf life. It can't be sustained literally unless you're brain damaged... But cherishing is an attitude that you can choose."

By shifting focus from fleeting emotions to deliberate acts of love and appreciation, couples can maintain a fulfilling and enduring relationship.

Theological Underpinnings of Marriage

Gary Thomas intertwines theological concepts with marital advice, highlighting that marriage is not just a personal relationship but also a spiritual journey:

[54:05] Gary Thomas: "If I'm married to somebody who stumbles in many ways... it's trying to worship the God to whom I owe everything because I happen to be married to his daughter."

Viewing marriage as an act of worship and recognizing the divine purpose in the union reinforces commitment and mutual respect.

Addressing Challenges and Maintaining Respect

The discussion also covers practical strategies for handling marital challenges while maintaining respect and empathy:

[43:04] Gary Thomas: "Humility and empathy are spiritual values that I can't talk about enough. If you lose humility, then I think my marriage will be better when I fix my wife."

By adopting humility and striving to understand each other’s perspectives, couples can navigate conflicts more effectively and preserve their relationship’s integrity.

Cherishing Through Actions

Gary emphasizes the importance of actionable steps in cherishing one another:

[52:12] Evie McLeod: "...if I'm feeling this, he's probably feeling..."

Recognizing and acting upon each other’s needs and frustrations without judgment fosters a supportive and loving environment.

Conclusion: Marriage as Spiritual Transformation

In wrapping up the episode, Gary Thomas underscores the central role of spiritual health in fostering a strong and enduring marriage:

[61:14] Gary Thomas: "For me, that's getting right with God through Jesus. It's having the Holy Spirit that will convict you. It's having the Holy Spirit that will empower you to forgive, to love, to serve."

By grounding the marriage relationship in a shared spiritual foundation, couples can achieve both personal holiness and lasting happiness.

Further Resources

Gary Thomas recommends his foundational books for those interested in deepening their understanding of marital dynamics:

• Sacred Marriage
• Cherish: The One Word That Changes Everything for Your Marriage

Listeners are encouraged to visit Gary Thomas’s website or connecttogary.com for more resources and insights.

Notable Quotes:

• Gary Thomas [06:56]: "Marriage is this giant mirror showing us what we're really like."
• Gary Thomas [12:30]: "I can allow my marriage to destroy my sin, or I can allow my sin to destroy my marriage."
• Gary Thomas [24:34]: "If you want to get away from contempt and move toward cherishing, you got to start calling your husband Adam."
• Gary Thomas [35:15]: "Infatuation ... has a 12 to 18 months shelf life."
• Gary Thomas [61:14]: "It's having the Holy Spirit that will convict you. It's having the Holy Spirit that will empower you to forgive, to love, to serve."

This episode serves as a compelling resource for couples seeking to strengthen their marriage through spiritual growth, mutual respect, and intentional love. Gary Thomas’s insights offer a transformative perspective on viewing marriage as a pathway to personal holiness and enduring happiness.