441: Documentary vs. Editorial Based Posing. What’s the Actual Difference? Let’s Discuss.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Heart & Hustle Podcast - Episode 441

Title: Documentary vs. Editorial Based Posing. What’s the Actual Difference? Let’s Discuss.

Hosts: Evie McLeod & Lindsey Roman

Release Date: July 15, 2025

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Introduction to the Topic (00:00 - 03:37)

In Episode 441 of The Heart & Hustle Podcast, hosts Evie McLeod and Lindsey Roman delve into the nuanced differences between documentary and editorial-style photography. Aimed primarily at photographers, the discussion seeks to demystify these often buzzword-laden terms and provide clarity on how to effectively integrate both styles into their work.

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Defining Documentary Photography (03:37 - 06:47)

Evie McLeod initiates the discussion by defining documentary photography as a "completely natural, completely hands-off and observational" approach. Lindsey Roman echoes this sentiment, describing it as "observational without interference," where the photographer captures genuine moments without directing the subjects.

Evie McLeod (04:24): "Documentary photography is completely natural, completely hands off and observational. The photographer captures real moments as they happen without interference."

They trace the origins of documentary photography to photojournalism, akin to the iconic, unposed shots like the "Times Square Kiss." However, both agree that in practice, especially within the wedding industry, truly pure documentary photography is rare.

Lindsey Roman (05:18): "I think what we think of documentary photography, like iconic shots, it's like, so who knows if they were posed."

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Defining Editorial Photography (06:47 - 09:00)

Transitioning to editorial photography, Lindsey Roman explains it as a style where the photographer provides direction or prompts to create specific outcomes or visions. This approach maintains some control over the aesthetic and composition while evoking genuine reactions.

Lindsey Roman (07:17): "Editorial photography is prompt or direction based. You are giving your clients a direction or a prompt to get a specific outcome or vision."

Evie McLeod adds that editorial photography often carries an "edgy feel," distinguishing it from documentary photography. It encompasses styles that are fashion-forward or fine art, requiring intentional posing and staging.

Evie McLeod (08:25): "At least in the way that it's used, editorial does have that edgy feel to it."

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Blurring the Lines: Combining Documentary and Editorial (09:00 - 15:35)

The conversation highlights the interplay between documentary and editorial styles, emphasizing that most photographers employ a blend of both. Evie and Lindsey discuss how even those claiming to be purely documentary often incorporate elements of direction to achieve the desired aesthetic.

Evie McLeod (12:30): "When people call themselves documentary photographers, I think in the majority of times that what they mean is they will set the scene aesthetically… which I would still kind of consider editorial."

They illustrate this with examples from wedding photography, where photographers must anticipate and capture unscripted moments while occasionally steering subjects to enhance the visual narrative.

Lindsey Roman (15:12): "There is a skill that comes with it. Same with editorial. But like it's curating a skill. And I think a really good photographer who blends both needs to cultivate both."

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Evolving Approaches and Storytelling (15:35 - 24:43)

Lindsey recounts their initial approach to photography, which involved a structured list of prompts to elicit genuine reactions from clients. Examples include asking couples to "whisper your favorite sandwich ingredients" to capture laughter and natural interactions.

Lindsey Roman (21:13): "One of our prompts was like, whisper your favorite sandwich ingredients in your sexiest voice."

Over time, they transitioned to a more tailored storytelling approach, incorporating clients' unique stories, personalities, and activities to create authentic and meaningful imagery.

Evie McLeod (23:33): "Now it's a lot more truly understanding their story, what their quirks are, what's going on in their life, and just, like, who they are as people."

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Tips for Photographers: Defining and Communicating Your Style (24:43 - 35:07)

The hosts emphasize the importance of photographers accurately defining their style to attract the right clients. They advocate for clear communication of whether a photographer leans more towards documentary or editorial, ensuring clients have realistic expectations.

Lindsey Roman (29:29): "Repel and attract. Like, you want to repel the wrong people so that you can attract the right people that you're wanting to book."

They caution against overusing trendy terms like "cinematic," which may become diluted over time, advising photographers to find unique descriptors that accurately reflect their work.

Lindsey Roman (31:52): "Find a unique word if you can."

Evie adds that cinematic styles often incorporate specific editing techniques, such as warm and green hues, but warns that these trends may eventually fade.

Evie McLeod (33:40): "Right now the trend is like cinematic photography… I feel like that's gonna look dated."

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Homework: Assessing and Communicating Your Style (35:07 - 36:01)

To conclude, the hosts encourage photographers to critically evaluate their current practices, identify their dominant styles, and effectively communicate these to potential clients. This self-assessment is pivotal in ensuring that photographers attract clients who resonate with their unique approach.

Evie McLeod (35:07): "Think about what you're actively doing. Am I editorial? Do I lean more documentary? Which am I?"

Lindsey Roman (35:37): "Assess your work… and hopefully this gave you some clarity and some ability to really define what you do and what your approach is."

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Conclusion

This episode of The Heart & Hustle Podcast offers invaluable insights for photographers striving to refine their style and effectively communicate it to clients. By distinguishing between documentary and editorial photography and exploring the synergy between the two, Evie McLeod and Lindsey Roman provide a comprehensive guide to enhancing both the artistic and business aspects of photography.

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Notable Quotes:

• Evie McLeod (04:24): "Documentary photography is completely natural, completely hands off and observational."
• Lindsey Roman (07:17): "Editorial photography is prompt or direction based."
• Lindsey Roman (21:13): "One of our prompts was like, whisper your favorite sandwich ingredients in your sexiest voice."
• Lindsey Roman (29:29): "Repel and attract."
• Evie McLeod (33:40): "Right now the trend is like cinematic photography… I feel like that's gonna look dated."

Transcript

[Evie McLeod]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are your hosts, Evie McLeod and Lindsay Roman. Welcome back to the show, my friend. Today this one is gonna be mostly for our photographer listeners. We are chatting about the difference between editorial and documentary style photography. I feel like both of those in this day and age are almost buzzwords that are thrown around almost. Almost without maybe knowing fully what they mean. And so we're gonna dive in today on really dissecting. Okay, what does documentary style mean truly. What does editorial style mean? Truly? And even prompt based. What'd you say?

[Lindsay Roman]

Even just prompt based?

[Evie McLeod]

Yes.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Like, like basically unposed versus posed. And really like how to operate in both. How to combine them. All the things just to add clarity. If you're using, if you're like, even in identifying, like, well, what is my style? Do I really like this way?

[Lindsay Roman]

How do I communicate this to clients?

[Evie McLeod]

Do I lean this way? Yeah. How do I communicate it? What are words that I can use? And how do I really own either the both or you know, the individual style that you are. So we're going to talk about that today. We're so excited.

[Lindsay Roman]

Let's dive in.

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Hey. Hey.

I'm Lindsey Roman.

And I'm Evie McLeod and we are family and legacy focused serial entrepreneurs and the founders of the Hart University, a business education company with a mission to help you thrive in your business and life.

Welcome to our entrepreneur cocktail hour where.

[Evie McLeod]

Business and marketing strategies meet faith. Real talk and raw and life changing conversations.

[Lindsay Roman]

At the end of the day, we are all in this together, figuring out how to navigate the ups and downs, the messy and the beautiful and everything in between. This is a community where you can come as you are, get inspired and walk away equipped to build a legacy filled life.

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast.

[Evie McLeod]

Let's talk about posing.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, kind of. Let's talk about prompting or not. Oh, don't. Okay. We're first going to start because we're obviously covering. If you skip the intro. Don't. Don't skip the intro, bro. Anyways, if we're, if you skip the intro, we're talking about and kind of defining documentary style photographer photography versus more editorial or prompt based. And we're, we kind of want. Because I feel like these are buzzwords very much in the industry right now. Documentary and editorial especially very buz. And we kind of really trendy too.

[Evie McLeod]

I guess the same. That's just a synonym for buzzy.

[Lindsay Roman]

But what I've noticed, and this isn't a critique at all, I've probably done this too is I think a lot of photographers use these terms without fully understanding what they mean. And it almost is like the, just the classification that they like slap on themselves without fully understanding or fully communicating to their clients what they actually do and what it actually means. So we kind of today wanted to be like, okay, well let's define these terms and kind of give our thoughts on what these mean, what this looks like so that you as a photographer can be better informed to be able.

[Evie McLeod]

To identify what you actively do.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Or if you're wanting to like try out a different style.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

To really understand like, okay, what are, what is the, the term that I can then identify for what I'm doing to accurately market myself and get the clients that are looking for that style as well.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. So let's start with documentary. Let's start with a definition.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Do you want to go ahead?

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, yeah. So documentary photography is completely natural, completely hands off and observational. The photographer captures real moments as they happen without interference. So this to me is almost like, like a true documentary photographer is, is a fly on the wall, does not interfere at all with what's happening and purely documents without interfering. I guess that's the same.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's what I just, it's like, it's observational without interference. Like don't interact with me as the photographer whatsoever. Like I don't pose or direct you at all.

[Evie McLeod]

And I feel like this style originated from photojournalism.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes.

[Evie McLeod]

Like almost like natural. Not National Geographic or like I'm thinking of even like war photographers that are like on the scene. If you're in war, you're not going to be like, hey, can you move.

[Lindsay Roman]

Over this by the light where it's really good.

[Evie McLeod]

That would be a better shot for me now. I'm sorry, I'm getting shot at.

[Lindsay Roman]

Please.

[Evie McLeod]

No.

[Lindsay Roman]

So performing a life saving surgery.

[Evie McLeod]

But I think it originated in like Photojournalism, very much like news type of things.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

I think of this would be t. If it was actually posed. But I think of. When I think of documentary photography, I think of that like iconic New Year's or Times Square Kiss.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Like that type of style where it's like, so who knows if they. If the photographer posed that? It seems to not be. I think that's why it's like the.

[Lindsay Roman]

Story is that it wasn't posed in their strangers. But who knows? Who knows the lore, the story.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

But yeah, I think. I think actually photojournalism, that's a great. That's another, like, in your mind, instead of like, I'm a documentary photographer, a great way to think of yourself is like, do I approach this as a photojournalist? Like, I am not interjecting whatsoever. I am writing down what I'm seeing. Like, photographing what I'm seeing. I think that in. In when we actually realize that we'll get to this, many people will start to realize, oh, I'm not purely, purely a documentary photographer.

[Evie McLeod]

Which there are, I think, people out there that especially, like. I think this is common. More so when you're like, fully documentary. I think I see it mostly in the wedding industry, other than photojournalism, things like that. I see it mostly in the wedding. I. I see it less. I see some documentary, like family sessions where it's like they're going on an adventure or they're having like a Sunday morning at home. And I'm purely.

[Lindsay Roman]

Just even then, I think most styled. I think most photographers.

[Evie McLeod]

There are some people out there that I think genuinely.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes. But it's rare.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Anyways, let's. Let's. Let's cover the. The definition for editorial. Well, here before.

[Evie McLeod]

I think another word that can be associated with documentary is candid.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Because I think the idea of candid is. It's natural. You didn't manipulate that into happening. Although I will say. Or setting the scene, even something that is another. I don't know if this is combining the two. It probably is combining the two. Where you, like, you give a prompt to get a candid reaction that is real because of the prompt you gave. But it wasn't real in the sense that they just did that without being prompted.

[Lindsay Roman]

We kind of get into that.

[Evie McLeod]

Okay, we'll get into that.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. So let's go over editorial or prompt or direction based in this one, you are giving your clients a direction or a prompt to get a specific outcome or vision. So the photographer gives the subject Light direction or prompts to create a moment rather than capturing one as purely as it happens. So the goal with this one, you could say, like Lindsay just said was, is to evoke genuine reactions while maintaining some control over the aesthetic or composition. So your goal with. With typically like prompt or direction most of the time is you still want to be creating a moment. You want to oftentimes be getting a reaction to something, but you are helping to facilitate and to like craft it. Yeah, I was going to say like steward. That's a weird word. Cultivate that moment and helping your clients maybe feel more comfortable in that moment. Or, you know, I would say editorial. Oh, I go into this. This is perfect on a nose editorial photography, which is much, very popular and much more like fashion forward or edgy.

[Evie McLeod]

Or even just like prompt. When you say prompt based. It. It technically is the same thing as editorial. But editorial, I feel like does have that edgy feel to it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

At least in the way that it's used.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, it's. It's. Yeah. Like this was, like we said on our notes, like editorial photography. Much more fashion forward or edgy or fine art, which leans more elegant and classic. Both of those are definitely much more like prompt based as it requires the photographer to like specifically direct their client into a specific pose or setting in order to get that like magazine style look.

[Evie McLeod]

And I feel like this could apply. I think sometimes you. I can sometimes. And I think people in general could sometimes view that as like a certain editing style as well. Like when I think of editorial, I naturally think of more like edgy, therefore darker or black and white. But that's not always the case. Like it can. You can still have an editorial look with like a light and airy style of editing. I think it just. It's not even that style of editing is. Is affected by these terms. I think that term could apply to.

[Lindsay Roman]

Totally. Yeah, I think it just it recognizing. Do I step in in a certain moment, like for example, getting ready photos? Like, do I help position my bride to put on her shoes or put on her dress, I have her stand right there with this scene around her with the light. Or am I literally a fly on the wall in that moment? And wherever she happens to be putting on her dress or putting on her shoes, I don't care if it's over the toilet. Like, I am not saying a word. And just taking a photo of that moment happening right over the toilet sounded weird. You know what I mean? Like her foot's up on the toilet and she's like Tying her, like, lacing up her heel.

[Evie McLeod]

I feel like true documentary photographers, the visuals, I feel like they're very, very, very good storytellers because it's. It feels more real, it feels photojournalistic, and it feels like you're truly stepping into that moment. Whereas I think the majority of people, I don't know if they would call themselves an editorial photographer, but I think take that example of a getting ready scenario. I think most photographers, unless you are, again, specifically truly documentary only, I think you would look at a getting ready room and you would be like, let's have you do whatever you're naturally going to do. And obviously, there's varying degrees of directing them in that moment, but I think they would say, please do that over here.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, here's the thing, too. In my experience, you really, really, really, really, really have to communicate with your clients ahead of time that you do not tell them or help them with any sort of facilitating or of a moment or a shot or anything like, directing whatsoever. And they have to know that and feel comfortable and confident. We're done. Yeah. Because, like, in my experience, especially on couple sessions, but especially on wedding days, like, I think of, like, the bride's about to get in her dress and her mom's about to help. Nine times out of 10, they look to me and they're like, well, where should we do this? Like, does. Hey, do you know where my mom is? Can you grab my mom? Like, is she ready? Can my mom help? Could I get into my dress?

[Evie McLeod]

I feel like. I feel like it depends on the bride, though, because I've definitely had brides that do that, but I've also had brides that, like, things will happen and I have to stop them if I want it to look pretty.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Or, like, slightly adjust it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. But I feel like a lot of times the clients, especially if they really trust your artistry and you haven't clearly labeled yourself as, like, I don't interfere at all with any part of your day whatsoever. For certain moments, like, whether it's their portraits, like the couple's portraits, or the first look, like, they'll be like, where should we go? What should we do? Like, how. How do I walk out to him? Like, there is an element of your clients looking to you because you've done this repeatedly, because you also, like, they want good photos of this moment, and they're like, just tell me where to stand, and then the moment unfolds. I think a lot of times that's the very common approach. So that's why I'm like, it's very rare in my experience to that like documentary photographers who call themselves documentary photographers are truly, strictly purely unadulterated documentary photographers.

[Evie McLeod]

I feel like when people call themselves documentary photographers, I think in the majority of times that what they mean is they will set the scene aesthetically, light wise, directional wise, which I would still kind of consider editorial to it or a prompt. You're prompting them, you're setting the stage in some fashion. And then whether you give them a prompt or whether you just say, you know, have your moment, do your first look here and I'm kind of capture that naturally you're still in a way directing it because you set, you told them where to go, where to be for like the best lighting, for the best esthetic. Yeah, for, you know. But I honestly, I feel like you have to be so talented at composition if you are a true documentary style photographer. Because you have to deal with. You can't manipulate it or you got.

[Lindsay Roman]

You have to have a very skilled eye.

[Evie McLeod]

Huh. I'm not that you can't or you don't. Shouldn't have a skilled eye or you don't have a skilled eye with editorial.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's a totally other skilled eye. And you can have people have both and like. Yeah, it's. But to be able to see a moment. Like for example, if a bride really was like in the bathroom, you know, throwing on her dress or something and then like throws her foot up on the top of the toilet seat to put her heel on, there is a photographer who can capture that in a way that just feels so freaking cool.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And I feel like there are some people who. That just looks like, why are you photographing a toilet?

[Evie McLeod]

Yes.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, you know what I mean? Like there is a skill that comes with it. Same with editorial. But like it's curating a skill. And I think a really good photographer who blends both needs to cultivate both.

[Evie McLeod]

Even an editorial photographer on a wedding day. Because there's just. You cannot manufacture every single moment.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, totally.

[Evie McLeod]

On the day. Obviously there's moments like bride getting in her dress, putting her shoes on. You can put that by a window.

[Lindsay Roman]

Ceremony and their first kiss and things like that.

[Evie McLeod]

Like, but there's also just moments that happen during the day that you. I feel like a good wedding photographer.

[Lindsay Roman]

Has a very good skill.

[Evie McLeod]

Has a very good skill of anticipating a moment before it happens and being able to know like when I'm on a wedding day, if I'm positioning myself, I'm eyeing everything, I'm waiting for the cry. I'm waiting for the hug. I'm like anticipating when something's gonna happen and I'm, I'm like light on my feet, trying to be like, where is the best angle going to be to get that moment?

[Lindsay Roman]

Yep. This is why mentally you feel like you got hit by and physically you feel like you got hit by a train after wedding day because it's like you can't. You mentally check out mentally the entire time.

[Evie McLeod]

Huh. But it's like that's even, even like if I'm, if like that the bride getting her shoe, she puts her foot up. I'm. I'm anticipating that moment as she's about to do it and I'm, I'm already crouching down to like get like close up of like the shoe being put on.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

In that moment or like.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

When the bride and groomer like walking down the aisle and like all their friends are hugging them or the bridal party, wedding party's hugging them.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

I'm like already positioning myself so that the hug, I can see their like one of their faces. Like, it's just. You're always doing that all day.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yep.

[Evie McLeod]

And I feel like you do that whether or not you're documentary or editorial.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, because there are moments. I don't care if you're like an extremely editorial photographer. There are unscripted moments in a wedding day that you have to document.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, typically it's true.

[Lindsay Roman]

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[Evie McLeod]

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[Evie McLeod]

It's true. Okay, well, let's talk about.

[Lindsay Roman]

Just quickly about our journey.

[Evie McLeod]

Like our, like, what we would define ourselves as and kind of our journey with like, directing and posing and things like that. Because I feel like we. I think we truly do a combo of both totally then and now, like, like at the beginning of our career and even now. And I think we've always gone for a free, spirited, candid feel while mixing in artful, intentional, posed shots.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, I feel like we curated moments.

[Evie McLeod]

We might lean a little bit more into editorial and intentionally Posed moments now.

[Lindsay Roman]

Versus in the right environment. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Than we did in the past. I think in the past. I would. Well, I. I don't know if that's true, though, because the thing, like, I would always do, like, ever since the beginning of my career, I would always, like, line up the bridal party and they would look at the camera. That's editorial. Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

But there's difference between, like, it's like a pose. Hey, I'm gonna have the bride stand in this, like, harsh, like, shadow line of light and dark and like, where.

[Evie McLeod]

It'S like, intentionally editorial.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, you're, like, leaning. You're doing a Dutch angle or, you know, whatever it is. Like, there's. There's a different look of editorial versus, like, is a little bit more classic of an image.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Versus, like a slight bit of, like, edgy.

[Evie McLeod]

That's true, that's true.

[Lindsay Roman]

But I think. I think the purpose with all of it throughout our entire career, because we. We used to do much more like, hey, I want you to whisper some. You know.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, here, let's expand on that. When we first got into photography, what was our typical M.O. on a wedding day? But I feel like, especially a couple.

[Lindsay Roman]

Session, I think we were much more. I actually think our prompting for sessions have changed dramatically. Still, like, we. I. We still prompt a good bit on sessions because naturally, like, you have to a little bit.

[Evie McLeod]

Because unless they're doing an activity on a wedding day, there's things happening that.

[Lindsay Roman]

That there's a timeline, there's activ. Like events that things are going to.

[Evie McLeod]

Happen whether or not you direct it.

[Lindsay Roman]

But on a session, like, if you. If you just show up with a camera and just stare at a couple and you're like, they're gonna stand there. They're like, what do I do? There is definitely, like, you have to pretty much. Even though you. I think we are much more hands off on our couple sessions now than we used to be. But what we used to do was honest. Especially in the first few years, we kind of had like a running bank or a list of like, poses and prompts. And the goal with each and every one of them was to. It was kind of. Kind of curate a. An environment to elicit a reaction that was very natural. So for example, if they weren't doing.

[Evie McLeod]

That themselves, it would look like they were effervescent.

[Lindsay Roman]

Effortless. Yeah, sure.

[Evie McLeod]

That too.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, like, for example, one of like, our prompts was. This is the one I put on our list. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like. Like one of our prompts. Was like, whisper your favorite sandwich ingredients or, like, favorite sandwich, like the ingredients of your favorite sandwich in her ear in your sexiest voice.

[Evie McLeod]

And the goal of that was to get her to laugh like he.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like it would be nuzzling, like he would be. Or her vice versa. Whoever you would prompt would be, like, in, like, nuzzling and like, whispering in the ear, but like whispering something ridiculous in a sexy voice even harder. She's, like, busting up laughing, or he or whoever is, like, dying laughing. And it. It creates an image that is, like, so beautiful. And. And it really is a candid moment in the sense that that's a genuine reaction from her, but it's.

[Evie McLeod]

It's not. Like you said, okay, fake laugh while he whispers in your ear.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. Or even just sitting there, not posing them at all and just staring at them, expecting that, you know, him to whisper something and her to laugh. Like, yeah, those moments sometimes happen. But.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, and you could. You could even give a prompt that's maybe not as off the wall or specific and say, like, could you whisper a memory into her ear? But that might not get. Depending on what they say, it might not get, like, a laugh. And maybe that's what you're wanting.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. Because you want to give them variety or whatever. So I feel like we. We used to have. Not that I actually had like, a list and paper and pen and I, you know, or whatever. And I'd be like, reviewing it or flashcards. Like, not that, but I had such a solid. Like, I almost cycled through like, maybe 20 out of, like, 50 prompts. And I would vary them out of those 50. But, like, every couple session for me used to be a variation pretty much. And I would go with the flow. As a moment would occur, I would, like, step back and hands off, But I had kind of this, like, standard go to list of prompts. And you did too. But I feel like now our approach is much more. Because we've changed, which I don't want to give too much of this way, because you should come to a workshop. We teach all about it. Anyways, we have completely changed our approach to storytelling in the sense that we now have a complete different backend process leading up to our couple session that allows us to almost storyboard and curate understanding what story we're telling for this specific couple based on them, their season of life, their quirks, their personalities, their love, their history, all of these things.

[Evie McLeod]

Although I would say I feel I think you did this too, but I still did all of that before. I think I was just I took the information that I was given and used it in a different way. Like, I would use it with the prompts.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. It was like, I would tell, stake their. Take their story, but then I would pick from the 50 prompts to kind of tell that story.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Versus almost like, organically setting up a scenario and letting them naturally be in that moment. And it's not that we don't use prompts occasionally, especially depending on the couple, depending on the scenario. Sometimes you need a little help in a moment. But I feel like now it's a lot more truly understanding their story, what their quirks are, what's going on in their life, and just, like, who they are as people, and crafting a scenario where you almost give. Like, it's, in some ways almost.

[Lindsay Roman]

It's both.

[Evie McLeod]

It's still documentary and editorial in my brain, but it's less like, okay, here's a prompt. Laugh into his face with a funny sandwich. Okay, now walk like you're drunk, like you taken two shots of tequila. Okay, now pretend that you're reuniting at the airport. Being away for six months, I feel.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like we used to, like, stack our prompts. It was like, one to the next, to the next, to the next throughout the whole session, and our clients loved it. Like, I'm not hating on some photographers. Like, many photographers still do that. Like, it's an amazing route, and it works really well. I was proud of the work I created. My clients loved the work that. Or their. Their photos. So it worked. But it was very much like you. I. We were cultivating and curating and prompting almost every single moment and interaction. Whereas now I would say we're like. Like 70, 80%, like, hands off, letting a moment unfold. And we prompt occasionally to get them into, like, a moment that would naturally unfold. Yeah, a moment. Or like a. You know, one of the things that we both do is we will sometimes almost, like, prompt stack, but not, like.

[Evie McLeod]

Set up a scene.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, like, set up a scene. Like, hey, you know, like, do you guys see that canoe over there? Like, why don't you guys, like, go get in and paddle around for a little bit and, like, like, you know.

[Evie McLeod]

And, like, maybe you don't talk to them again for five minutes while they do that thing. I mean, not to say you should be silent. Like, I. I always love encouraging them be like, oh, my gosh, you guys are so cute. This is so precious. Keep going. This is wonderful.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's different than prompting. That's encouragement and, like, letting them know that they look amazing.

[Evie McLeod]

But it's like, you're not manipulating the scene any more than you maybe did at the beginning. It's like you're setting up the scene.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. And also, once you've communicated, like, one thing with our. Like, our clients now especially, is, like, there will be moments sometimes, or sessions sometimes, where, like, I'll communicate in advance with them and I will hear, or, like, they'll be like, oh, my gosh, we love this. Or this, or, you know, whatever. And I'm like, oh, that's great. Let's actually start with you guys at home making pancakes on your Sunday, because that's your typical Sunday.

[Evie McLeod]

And you almost incorporate activities, maybe more so.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

To make the doing things more natural versus just like, okay, let's stand in a field. Okay. Now what do we do?

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

And they just look at us.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. And it's like, I'm like, much more, like, hands off in those moments because I'm like, oh, you're gonna make pancakes at home in your kitchen the way you normally do. Or, like, you guys typically spend time out in the garden. He reads and you garden.

[Evie McLeod]

And like, let's go on a bike ride. Let's go swimming.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. Like, the things that you naturally do together, a lot of times allows more. And that's where like, the storytelling aspect comes in. Like, I try as much as possible with my couples, especially couple sessions, to understand the actual story that they want to be told via these photos. Instead of just being like, okay, let's go to the beach, and I'll tell you 20 prompts in a row for an hour, and then, bye, bye. And they're great photos, but I. I think we blend a little bit more documentary now, and we used to make.

[Evie McLeod]

It more unique to them.

[Lindsay Roman]

Every single session is different. I use different prompts. I use different, you know, even though I still do prompts, like, prompting them into, like, oh, my gosh, I love that. Wait, like, you just, you know, she swished the. The flower off of her cheek. A flower off her cheek for making pancakes. Like, you know, do that again. Something. You know, something like that. Or even, like, what would it look like if you guys suddenly had a flower fight? I'm just. I'm not saying to do that. I'm just saying, you know, or whatever. And then suddenly this moment unfolds. Like, I will still occasionally be, like, you know, interject here and there to, like, help create a moment.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Because it is awkward to have a camera in front of you. And that's the thing you have to realize is I Am totally fine with like directing and prompting my couple, especially as it eases their fear and gives them something to do.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

But I try as much as possible to give them something to do and then to step back.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, that's a good way to describe it. I also feel like I do this a lot more now than I used to. I think I. I incorporate a lot more very intentional editorial posing into. Again, it's not all editorial. It's very much what she just described. But there'll be moments and I obviously cater this to each client if they, if I know they're wanting a little bit more like fab fashion forward or editorial leaning photos. Yeah, I will lean into that.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

But I like, I think I used to on weddings, like, never intent. Like, I always, like part of my brand messaging was like, never look at me unless I tell you to. And I obviously, I think I say that a little bit more on sessions now, but I think I love an intentionally crafted editorial.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, stare into the camera, like where.

[Evie McLeod]

It'S intentionally moody or they're staring or there's like a light line of harsh light into shadow. And I'll be like, let's intentionally go, like, stand right there. And I want you to like, lean on him, like, and I will, like, direct it. Yeah, it's. It's not candid whatsoever, but it's very artistic and it's very like, I. Editorial is the only way that I can really think to say that, but I guess it's like very intentional in that way.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very artistic. Yeah. So there's no right or wrong way. Honestly, I see so much beauty in both and I really think there is a desire in the market for both.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

So what we wanted to do with today's episode was to just kind of define in our opinions and obviously in our opinion, where this is the correct definition. Like, of what? Like the bare bones. Correct.

[Evie McLeod]

Because it's the. It's the Internet definition. Like, if you googled it, you would find a variation of what we said.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. So, so basically, like, we just wanted to be like, hey, here's the definition of documentary versus editorial. Or like posed or directing. And for you to be able to then take that information and be like, what do I actually do currently? What style do I want to do? And how then can I take all of this information and correctly convey and communicate this to my ideal clients? That sets the expectation and helps them understand the process of working with me.

[Evie McLeod]

And what the experience will be.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes, because that's the Biggest thing. That's the biggest thing that's gonna make a difference to, you know. Well, not the biggest thing. There's. There's other things for sure, but, like, one of the biggest things clients wanna.

[Evie McLeod]

Know is, like, accurately defining what you're doing.

[Lindsay Roman]

What. What is your approach? On my wedding day, are you gonna be in my face the entire time? Like, putting me in pose after pose after pose? And maybe they want that. And some clients do. They're like, please. I want it to be very edgy. I want it to feel like it's vogue coming straight out of vogue. Tell me what to do every single second. Except maybe the ceremony. Like.

[Evie McLeod]

Right, right.

[Lindsay Roman]

But if that's. You communicate that. If that's not, communicate that. So.

[Evie McLeod]

And just be very, very specific. I feel like the best. I think sometimes people avoid saying specific language like this to try to, like, not turn people off. But in my opinion, that's. You want to do that. You want to turn people off.

[Lindsay Roman]

Repel and attract.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, repel and attract. Like, you want to repel the wrong people so that you can attract the right people that you're wanting to book that you love working with and you love that style. Like, you want to be known for a very specific style and not just, like, kind of doing everything. Yep. I also. I thought of this. This isn't on our notes, but I feel like the word cinematic has become very buzzy, too, in the last, like, year and a half. Two years. Yeah. How would you describe that? Because I would almost describe kind of how we direct.

[Lindsay Roman]

I was gonna say I actually think the blend of editorial and documentary and documentary is cinematic, but I almost think.

[Evie McLeod]

I almost think cinematic can be in the editing, too. A little bit.

[Lindsay Roman]

Totally.

[Evie McLeod]

It's both.

[Lindsay Roman]

Totally. Because it's coming. You want to feel like it's, like, from a cinematic or cinema, like. Like a.

[Evie McLeod]

Like an actual movie still out of.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, a movie or something.

[Evie McLeod]

So.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes, it. Like the movie editing, the color, grading. I wanna. I wanna warn you right now, listener, I don't know which camera to look at. I'm gonna look. I'm gonna look right at you. I'm warning you right now, do not. Do not put cinematic on your website and all over your branding just because we said that could define the blend of the two. I'm telling you right now, that is already becoming a buzzword. It's going to become more of a buzzword. I would hesitate to have that be your key defining, like, term, because that will be swallowed up in the noise of everyone else saying it. Too. Not that you can't use that word occasionally when describing. But I would very much hesitate to be like, I am a cinematic photographer. Everyone and their mother is going to be doing. They already kind of are. But I think in the next year that's going to become another huge word. It already, it's on an upswing. But I'm just warning you right now, just because I said I think that's a blend of the two, that does not mean that's your word.

[Evie McLeod]

It's true.

[Lindsay Roman]

Find a unique word if you can.

[Evie McLeod]

Also, I think, I think when I think of cinematic visually like editing wise, I feel like I think of the, the editing that leans more filmy and more like yellow and warm. Sorry, that's the same thing. Warm and green. Yeah, like, like yellow and green. Like if you're, if you're like there, there's a certain style and I feel like this is definitely a 2024, 2025 trend that I think possibly will it. Well, yeah, it probably will. Will go away. Very similar to how I think really, really, really overly yell, low orangey, warm was a trend. And like maybe 2019, 2020 ish. I feel like maybe even before that.

[Lindsay Roman]

I'm not sure 2017-2019, but I feel.

[Evie McLeod]

Like right now the trend is like cinematic photography. Turn your yellow and green like all the frick way up. And I feel like that's gonna look dated because it's, I think it's supposed to emulate. I think it's supposed to emulate film to an extent.

[Lindsay Roman]

Emulate film, but also like, like indie films and like cinematic like color grading. But I feel like when I actually.

[Evie McLeod]

Shoot film, it doesn't actually. It depends on the stock, obviously you're using, but it doesn't actually in my opinion, lean that right warm green.

[Lindsay Roman]

I think it's more like an indie film.

[Evie McLeod]

Like Wes Anderson.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I, I. There's a, there's a timelessness to that because that has been a look in.

[Evie McLeod]

Old like, like it's like 70s style almost.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

At least that's what I think of. I think of like Woodstock.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

I don't know.

[Lindsay Roman]

Or like Super 8. Like, like old film cameras and things. So like there's an element of timelessness to it. But I do think it's becoming a trend that will probably like slowly fade out of the photography world a little bit at some point in the sense.

[Evie McLeod]

Of it's like not the it thing anymore.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. Anyways, those are our thoughts.

[Evie McLeod]

Love that.

[Lindsay Roman]

Hopefully that gave you some something to Chew on. Hopefully that gave you some insight. If you have further questions on it means DM us. We are here for you.

[Evie McLeod]

But your homework right now is think about what you're actively doing. Like, Evie just said of, like, am I editorial? Do I lean more documentary? Which am I?

[Lindsay Roman]

Or even not even editorial fine art? Or, you know, do I candid?

[Evie McLeod]

Like, happy, joyful, candid? Because I feel like you could be prompt based, like we kind of mentioned, without being editorial in the sense of like, I'm going to finally and refinedly, elegantly pose them where you're like, chin to the left, up into the light.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

You could still give a prompt, like, run into the field and spin around. Yeah, you're still prompting them, but it. It could result in a more like, joyful, carefree.

[Lindsay Roman]

Carefree, effortless. However you want to describe it. There's. Yeah. So assess your work. Assess what you were describing yourself as on your website, on, you know, your social media, and hopefully this gave you some clarity and some ability to really define what you do and what your approach is to your photography and then to be able to, like, like, communicate that well to your clients in a way that will attract the right people.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

So. All right, friends, we love you. We will see you on the next episode.