442: Lindsey & Evie React to YOUR Unpopular Business Opinions

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Heart & Hustle Podcast Episode: 442: Lindsey & Evie React to YOUR Unpopular Business Opinions
Release Date: July 22, 2025
Hosts: Evie McLeod & Lindsey Roman

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Introduction

In Episode 442 of The Heart & Hustle Podcast, hosts Evie McLeod and Lindsey Roman dive into a lively discussion reacting to their audience's submitted unpopular business opinions. The episode is structured around several hot takes, primarily focusing on practices within the photography and creative entrepreneurship industries. Throughout the episode, the duo offers their insights, agreements, and constructive critiques, enriched with engaging banter and personal anecdotes.

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1. Appearance Matters in Professional Settings

Opinion: "You can't convince me you have a good work ethic when you show up looking like a slob to photo shoots."
Timestamp: [02:50]

Discussion:
Evie and Lindsey debated whether a professional appearance truly reflects one's work ethic. They acknowledged that in certain trades like plumbing, attire is functional and may not align with traditional professionalism. However, they emphasized that for creative entrepreneurs, especially photographers, dressing appropriately is crucial as it influences client perceptions and the overall professionalism of the service.

Notable Quotes:

• Evie: “I would agree with that.” [05:39]
• Lindsey: “It's interesting that she said photo shoots because had she said like weddings, that's a no brainer.” [04:32]

Conclusion:
Maintaining a polished and appropriate appearance is important in creative professions to foster trust and convey professionalism.

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2. Timely Delivery and Sneak Peeks in Photography

Opinion:
"If you don't send sneak peeks to your client and you're taking three plus months to send their wedding galleries, you look like a lazy business owner."
Timestamp: [05:59]

Discussion:
The hosts strongly agreed that prolonged delivery times without providing sneak peeks can tarnish a business’s reputation. They suggested practical solutions like hiring an editor, managing bookings better, or raising prices to ensure timely delivery without overburdening oneself.

Notable Quotes:

• Evie: “Take less bookings, raise your prices, take less bookings and deliver faster.” [07:04]
• Lindsey: “There's no excuse in 2025.” [06:32]

Conclusion:
Efficient workflow management and clear communication are essential to avoid being perceived as unprofessional due to delayed deliveries.

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3. Overuse of Social Media for Client Communication

Opinion:
"Posting your editing queues and telling your clients over social media when they will receive their gallery is super unprofessional and super lazy."
Timestamp: [07:54]

Discussion:
Evie and Lindsey criticized the practice of using public social media platforms for private client communications. They highlighted that such methods lack personal touch and clarity, potentially leading to misunderstandings and appearing unprofessional.

Notable Quotes:

• Evie: “It's like some sneak peeks on stories.” [08:25]
• Lindsey: “I think communicating and I think we... There's another hot take in here that kind of like goes into this.” [09:07]

Conclusion:
Private and direct communication channels, such as email or dedicated client portals, are more appropriate for managing client expectations and delivering personalized service updates.

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4. Working Smarter, Not Harder

Opinion:
"You don't need to hustle harder. You need to work smarter and maybe sleep sometimes."
Timestamp: [10:59]

Discussion:
The hosts largely agreed with the sentiment, emphasizing the importance of balancing hard work with intelligent strategies and self-care. They acknowledged that while working smarter is crucial, there are times when perseverance and additional effort are necessary to drive business momentum.

Notable Quotes:

• Evie: “But there are scenarios where I think people can get so focused on working smarter and not harder that they forget to work hard at all.” [12:00]
• Lindsey: “Imposter syndrome... they're not doing it because they're timid and they're like afraid to reach out or take that risk.” [12:43]

Conclusion:
A balanced approach that incorporates both smart strategies and dedicated effort, along with adequate rest, is essential for sustainable business growth and personal well-being.

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5. Aesthetics of Business Websites

Opinion:
"I'm so tired of boring monochrome websites. Can designers please usher in an era of elegant and timeless that includes color?"
Timestamp: [13:59]

Discussion:
Evie and Lindsey explored the trend of minimalistic, monochrome website designs, particularly in the photography sector. While they recognized the aesthetic appeal and professionalism it can convey, they also discussed the potential for such designs to become monotonous and distract from the actual work. They noted a shift towards incorporating more color to add vibrancy and reflect personal branding.

Notable Quotes:

• Lindsey: “I feel like subtly personally victimized by this.” [14:02]
• Evie: “If your branding is so colorful, even if that goes with your, your vibe, maybe I'm second guessing myself.” [16:31]

Conclusion:
Incorporating strategic color elements can enhance website appeal without compromising professionalism, provided it aligns with the brand’s identity and doesn't overshadow the showcased work.

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6. Singular Branding vs. Multiple Niches

Opinion:
"You don't always need to niche down. I turned down opportunities I wish I hadn't because I was 'only a wedding photographer'."
Timestamp: [23:30]

Discussion:
The hosts discussed the merits of niching versus diversifying services. While they acknowledged that niching can provide clarity and strengthen brand identity, they also recognized scenarios where maintaining multiple niches might be beneficial. However, they cautioned against overextending oneself, which can lead to diluted expertise and inconsistent service quality.

Notable Quotes:

• Evie: “You probably want to either divide those brands or focus on one and building one thing stronger, faster, better.” [26:12]
• Lindsey: “We’re hinting back at niching, I think.” [46:30]

Conclusion:
A focused niche can enhance brand strength and client trust, but strategic diversification is possible if managed effectively without compromising quality.

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7. Ethical Outsourcing in Photography

Opinion:
"Taking on associate weddings without having an official associate team and outsourcing to other photographers in that city is greedy and unprofessional."
Timestamp: [40:58]

Discussion:
Evie and Lindsey expressed strong agreement, emphasizing the importance of having a vetted and official associate team when outsourcing work. They highlighted the potential risks of outsourcing to untrusted photographers, which can lead to poor client experiences and damage to one’s reputation.

Notable Quotes:

• Evie: “I would agree with that.” [42:40]
• Lindsey: “How would the client just be, like, okay with that?” [42:15]

Conclusion:
Outsourcing should be done responsibly with trusted associates to maintain service quality and uphold professional standards.

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8. Sharing Client Sneak Peeks Publicly

Opinion:
"You shouldn't share sneak peeks on social before the clients have had a chance to see them."
Timestamp: [43:38]

Discussion:
The duo unanimously agreed that clients should have the first opportunity to view their photos before any public sharing. Posting sneak peeks publicly can undermine the client’s exclusive experience and breach trust.

Notable Quotes:

• Evie: “It’s their photos that they get to see themselves first before the whole rest of the world sees them.” [45:26]
• Lindsey: “I agree with that.” [45:29]

Conclusion:
Prioritizing client exclusivity by delaying public sharing of sneak peeks ensures a respectful and professional client relationship.

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9. Multi-Passionate Entrepreneurs

Opinion:
"Being multi-passionate is often just lack of commitment in disguise."
Timestamp: [45:33]

Discussion:
Evie and Lindsey discussed the pitfalls of being multi-passionate without proper commitment and discipline. They acknowledged that while having multiple interests can be beneficial, it can also lead to scattered efforts and reduced focus, ultimately hindering business success.

Notable Quotes:

• Evie: “You keep jumping from thing to thing.” [46:27]
• Lindsey: “You're like, okay, pick one.” [46:48]

Conclusion:
While diverse interests can enrich one's business, maintaining focus and commitment to core areas is essential for achieving meaningful progress and success.

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10. Entrepreneurial Suitability

Opinion:
"Not everyone is meant to be an entrepreneur. And that's a good thing."
Timestamp: [46:58]

Discussion:
The hosts agreed that entrepreneurship isn’t for everyone and that diversity in career paths is necessary for a balanced economy. They recognized that some individuals thrive in corporate settings or other job structures, and that’s perfectly acceptable.

Notable Quotes:

• Evie: “If everyone were entrepreneurs, who would be the customers?” [48:56]
• Lindsey: “If you own a business, you can never shop again…” [48:56]

Conclusion:
Respecting diverse career choices and recognizing that entrepreneurship suits some but not all individuals is vital for personal fulfillment and societal balance.

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11. Marketing: Social Media vs. Referrals

Opinion:
"Your dream client isn't scrolling Instagram looking for you. They're being referred by someone they trust."
Timestamp: [49:06]

Discussion:
While initially agreeing, Evie and Lindsey clarified that both social media and referrals play significant roles in client acquisition. They emphasized the importance of building relationships and leveraging social media to create trust and community, which can enhance referral rates.

Notable Quotes:

• Lindsey: “I think they could be scrolling to look for you.” [50:12]
• Evie: “Even on Instagram, a community that is, like, you have relationship, know, like, trust factor...” [50:23]

Conclusion:
Effective marketing strategies should integrate both social media engagement and relationship-building to maximize client acquisition through multiple channels.

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Closing Remarks

Evie and Lindsey wrapped up the episode by encouraging listeners to join their Heart and Hustle community groups on Instagram and Facebook for more interactions and future episode ideas. They expressed enthusiasm for future discussions on various genres, including business, motherhood, and marriage, highlighting the community-driven nature of their podcast.

Notable Quotes:

• Evie: “We would love to hear your feedback.” [53:19]
• Lindsey: “Hopefully you enjoyed us, like, bantering and reacting.” [53:03]

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Key Takeaways

• Professional Appearance: Dressing appropriately can significantly impact client perceptions and business professionalism.
• Timely Deliveries: Efficient workflow and clear communication are essential to avoid negative client perceptions.
• Private Client Communication: Use direct and private channels for client interactions to maintain professionalism.
• Balanced Work Ethic: Combine smart strategies with dedicated effort and self-care for sustainable success.
• Website Aesthetics: Incorporate color thoughtfully to enhance rather than distract from your showcased work.
• Niche Focus: While niching strengthens brand identity, strategic diversification is possible with proper management.
• Ethical Outsourcing: Outsource responsibly with trusted partners to maintain service quality.
• Client Exclusivity: Prioritize client experiences by managing the timing of public content sharing.
• Focused Passion: Maintain commitment to core business areas to avoid scattered efforts.
• Career Diversity: Recognize that entrepreneurship suits some but not all, fostering a balanced economy.
• Integrated Marketing: Utilize both social media and referrals to maximize client acquisition through multiple channels.

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Join the Conversation:
Stay connected with Evie and Lindsey by joining their Heart and Hustle group DM on Instagram and the Heart Hustle Facebook group. Links are available in the show notes.

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from Episode 442, providing listeners and non-listeners alike with a comprehensive overview of the topics covered.

Transcript

[Lindsay Roman]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are your hosts, Evie McLeod and Lindsay Roman. That's me, that's her. I don't know why I said that but today's gonna be a really fun episode. If you are tuning in, it's gonna be a good time. We are doing well. What we ended up doing was we pulled you guys in our we created a Heart and Hustle group DM on Instagram. If you're not in there, we'll put it the link in the show notes.

[Evie McLeod]

It's so much fun. Come join.

[Lindsay Roman]

It's a great time. It's a good girl chat. We'll and boy chat but I actually don't think any boys are in there. But they're welcome if. Yeah, whatever. Anyways, you're welcome always. And we asked you guys for your biggest business unpopular opinions and y' all did not hold back. Let me tell you. You did not. And so we wrote down a bunch of our faves that we got from you guys and we are going to react to them and tell you if we agree with the hot take or not.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, we're going to give you our reactions. There is, there's a handful. So buckle up and let's dive in.

[Lindsay Roman]

Calling all business owners out there. Are you constantly getting ghosted by potential clients? Okay, jokes aside, right, no matter what you do, you're always just hearing crickets after you send your initial email.

[Evie McLeod]

Well friend, we've got you. We know what it's like. And in fact, pretty much all business owners and creative entrepreneurs experience ghosting to some extent or other. While you can't make your potential client email you back, there are definitely some solid strategies to fix this issue and get booked more.

[Lindsay Roman]

So we are here to help you problem solve that issue. That's why we wanted to share our top eight pieces of advice to hooking your potential clients right from the get go and leaving them screaming yes, let's do this.

[Evie McLeod]

If you are ready to get that kind of reaction from your clients, just download our free guide how to keep potential clients from ghosting [e-mail] ghosting T to hook em right from the get go. Hey.

[Lindsay Roman]

Hey. I'm Lindsay Roman.

[Evie McLeod]

And I'm Evie McLeod and we are family and legacy focused serial entrepreneurs and the founders of the Hart University, a business education company with a mission to help you thrive in your business and life.

[Lindsay Roman]

Welcome to our Entrepreneur cocktail hour where business and marketing strategies meet faith real talk and raw in life changing conversations.

[Evie McLeod]

At the end of the Day. We are all in this together, figuring out how to navigate the ups and downs, the messy and the beautiful, and everything in between. This is a community where you can come as you are, get inspired and walk away, equipped to build a legacy filled life.

[Lindsay Roman]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast.

[Evie McLeod]

All right, we're just going to. I feel like we're going to dive in.

[Lindsay Roman]

We have so many here. You don't even understand that we're just going to have to dive in.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Okay, the first one, you. We kept these anonymous, by the way. Okay. The first one says you can't convince me you have a good work ethic when you show up looking like a slob to photo shoots. I'm sorry, could you, could you, could.

[Lindsay Roman]

You make that applicable to like. Well, I wonder if it would be applicable, like to any business owner. Like if you're a service provider and you show up to an event of.

[Evie McLeod]

Some sort, I'm thinking like, if you show up to an important meaning looking like a slob. But then I think of like, well, but if you are like a plumber, there's like almost, you know, there's almost an element.

[Lindsay Roman]

Plumbers are listening to this episode.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, no, but I'm thinking like some service providers. Truly.

[Lindsay Roman]

No, listen, if a plumber walked in my house and he was like a professional with a button down, it could be a short sleeve button down, but like a button down and like slacks and he was like stylish, I'd be like, slay. Okay, yeah, I will hire you again. If a plumber came in and had the typical stereotypical butt crack, like, like with the, with the vibes, that's like the plumbers crack. If you prove to me even that plumbers are exactly what I think of them in my mind, I'm not hiring you again.

[Evie McLeod]

I'm like, even if you have. I know there are some like work pants that are like work material that wash easily. Like, like are rip resistant and things like that, but they look a little nicer and, and a branded T shirt even.

[Lindsay Roman]

I don't even think it has to be branded. Also. Should we take it back to the actual. She didn't talk about plumbers.

[Evie McLeod]

No, but we're taking it to all exp. I would agree with this.

[Lindsay Roman]

Personally, I would agree with this also, but. Well, no, I would agree with it. It's interesting that she said photo shoots because had she said like weddings, that's.

[Evie McLeod]

Like a no brainer, right?

[Lindsay Roman]

Then that's. It's almost more aggressive. I could see how you could possibly more so get away with a session because it's like. Well, because, yeah, you're wearing whatever you're wearing. You can wear sweats in theory.

[Evie McLeod]

I'm thinking through. It depends on the type of session that you're shooting. But I'm thinking through when I was very much shooting, like, very adventurous, like, nine times out of 10, my couple was like, getting in the water. When I was like shooting a ton in Hawai or California or something, like, we would end up in the water. So I would often wear like a bathing suit and like jean shorts, jean shorts over it or something like that. Like a one piece with jean shorts over, which is kind of casual. Well, yeah, but I'm dressing for the job.

[Lindsay Roman]

I'm also getting in the water with them. Like, if they wanted water photos in the water. Yeah, I would take. I would take off my pants and be in a swimsuit. Yeah, I would probably be in a one piece, but I would still be in a swimsuit.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. So it depends.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's. That's.

[Evie McLeod]

Then I'm like. But now if I'm shooting, like, you know, some of my sessions might be a little bit more elevated. We're shooting at, like a really nice, like, museum. We're shooting editorial engagements.

[Lindsay Roman]

Don't show up with jean shorts.

[Evie McLeod]

No, like, I am definitely showing up dressed like, I'm wearing, like, something a lot more professional and polished.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

So I would agree with. I would agree with that.

[Lindsay Roman]

Hot T. I feel like I don't think about on session specifically. I don't think about, like, professional and Paul Whale. I don't think of, like, I'm a slob, but I. I think of, like, what's more cute, movable, and trend, I think is where my brain goes. Yeah, but that also doesn't equal. Okay, we agree with it. That's the point.

[Evie McLeod]

Okay, next one.

[Lindsay Roman]

All right. If you don't send sneak peeks to your client and you're taking three plus months to send their wedding galleries, you look like a lazy business owner.

[Evie McLeod]

That's savage.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's savage. I would agree with it.

[Evie McLeod]

I completely agree with it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, because it said if you're not sending sneak peeks to your clients, like.

[Evie McLeod]

At all, and you're taking three plus months to send their wedding galleries. Here's my thing.

[Lindsay Roman]

Here's the thing.

[Evie McLeod]

Hire an editor or just manage your time better.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Take less. Take less bookings, Raise your prices. Take less bookings and deliver faster.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, there's no excuse in 2025.

[Evie McLeod]

Here's the thing. I truly Think it depends. Again, it depends on like, you know, I know some business owners are like, they do have a, like photographers have a delivery time of three months and that this like very clearly communicated and whatever.

[Lindsay Roman]

I mean I can't complain if it's communicated and the client hires you and knows that. But that's still in my opinion, like psychotic.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, I would agree.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like put yourself in the position of a wedding couple that's just gotten married. They don't even see any photos at all until three plus months later.

[Evie McLeod]

No, I think a lot of those people do like they would do sneak peeks.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, that's not what the thing says.

[Evie McLeod]

No, no, no. But I'm saying a lot of the photographers I know who have like three plus months turnaround times do sneak peeks. But even still I'm. Maybe I'm just the person who's like.

[Lindsay Roman]

Just like get that. Even selfishly get that off your plate faster so it's not hanging over your head.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, I'm, I'm not a fan of really long delivery times. But I would agree. I would also say if you're not editing sneak peeks and you're doing really long turnaround times, I agree. Get out of here. You look like a lazy business owner. I would almost, I would almost say you are just being not a good business owner.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's a nicer way to say it.

[Evie McLeod]

Because it's not necessarily laziness. You could actually be swamped with stuff and you're doing stuff and you're working your butt off. You just have so much.

[Lindsay Roman]

But you just overbooked yourself at a too low price point and you refuse.

[Evie McLeod]

To hire up or business management.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's a great way to say it.

[Evie McLeod]

Wonderful. Okay, next one says oh, oh. Posting your editing cues and telling your clients over social media when they will receive their gallery instead of emailing them, especially if you will be late is super unprofessional and super lazy.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay, wait, I've so. I have so much to say. Even if it's not late, even if it's perfectly on time. Yeah, I've seen it so many times. And if you're in the photography industry, you know. Exactly. You, you know when people on their stories they, they put like a, a, a blank slide and then they have like a list of couples names.

[Evie McLeod]

They'll be like currently in the editing.

[Lindsay Roman]

Queue and it has like all of them and it shows which one like they're working on like currently working on blank. And then it has like 10 at.

[Evie McLeod]

The bottom in the queue.

[Lindsay Roman]

I Don't understand the purpose of that. Here's public.

[Evie McLeod]

Here's my thing. Here's. I have thoughts.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. I would love to hear them.

[Evie McLeod]

I think photographers think that it showcases that they're busy, which I would agree with it. It does.

[Lindsay Roman]

It shows that you're popping.

[Evie McLeod]

It does show that you're popping. That you have a lot of editing which means you have a lot of bookings.

[Lindsay Roman]

So there is like not FOMO but demand.

[Evie McLeod]

It shows demand.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

It creates scarcity because it's like this person's booked. So I understand. I think that truly is the thought process.

[Lindsay Roman]

You think that's the only thought process?

[Evie McLeod]

I don't know.

[Lindsay Roman]

Because I think it's to not get emails from clients of like when is asking when.

[Evie McLeod]

That's true. But that's true.

[Lindsay Roman]

In my opinion. A lack of your communication with your client originally.

[Evie McLeod]

I mean it kind of ties in. Super unprofessional and super lazy is what this person state. I. I agree. I really. I think communicating and I think we. There's another hot take in here that kind of like goes into this. But like if you're low key. Communicating with your clients via Instagram stories. No, like something like this. Especially if it's going to be late. Like I'm so sorry.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, it's not like you're. They're not tagging them in it. It's literally there's naming names on a slide.

[Evie McLeod]

Sometimes two people will be like. Like they'll put over social like on a story or something. They'll be like in the editing queue or like this week's been super crazy. A few galleries are going to be going out late if you're still waiting.

[Lindsay Roman]

I think. You think that's another one.

[Evie McLeod]

Is it? I need to hush.

[Lindsay Roman]

I think that's another one. Let me see if I can find. I think. I swear it is.

[Evie McLeod]

I think it's.

[Lindsay Roman]

Unless we deleted it. Did we delete it? Hold on.

[Evie McLeod]

It's. It's. It's this one. I'll just jump to it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay.

[Evie McLeod]

Please don't jump to it. It says. I think it's unnecessary to post something along the lines of I have a busy day today so I'll get back to your emails tomorrow.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. Y. It was that one.

[Evie McLeod]

Which is. Which is a very similar concept of communic. You're communicating with your clients via. But what I'm saying is like via.

[Lindsay Roman]

Via public domain. That isn't just communicating to your clients.

[Evie McLeod]

Likely wouldn't see.

[Lindsay Roman]

Also you're assuming that your clients like are so Far up your. You know what, that they're following you so intimately. I mean, maybe they are. So that was very aggressive, but you get it. Like, I don't assume that your clients are watching your every move on your stories. And also you're just like, you're not speaking directly to them. So it's not clear communication.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

It's just kind of vague.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

We agree with all these hot takes. Apparently.

[Evie McLeod]

Apparently. Apparently we have hot takes left and right.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, my goodness. Wait, okay, where did we leave off? Okay, this one says you don't need to hustle harder. You need to work smarter and maybe sleep sometimes. I would agree with that.

[Evie McLeod]

And maybe sleep. I agree with that. I will say there are seasons with certain business owners. Like in coaching, like, I have seen some business owners that I'm like, you, you need to put your, like, nose to the ground.

[Lindsay Roman]

Have too many boundaries at the beginning when you're trying, when you're needing to just like ramp up and gain momentum.

[Evie McLeod]

Or even just people. I think, I think because hustle culture has almost swung a bit more. Like, everyone's aware of the dangers of hustle culture now. Like, we've, we've seen it. We've seen burnout, we've seen, you know, whatever. So now people are a little bit more aware of it. So when they're building businesses, I think a lot of people really think, like, I need to work smarter, not harder. Smarter, not harder. Smarter, not harder. And there's totally. Absolutely. I mean, you've heard us preach this a million and one times. So like, we agree with this.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

But there are certain scenarios where I think people can get so focused on working smarter and not harder that they forget to work hard at all.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

And, and then they just, they don't.

[Lindsay Roman]

Complain, they don't do businesses and coming in. Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

And they're like, but I just have a boundary that I, I won't want to do. Or like, I just don't want to, like, work. Like, I don't, I don't want to work more than, you know, or something. And there's just, there's an element. Sometimes it's truly like, hey, I'm limited based on being a mother or my full time job or different things.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

But there's also, there have been times where I'm like, sometimes you just have to freaking work.

[Lindsay Roman]

Stop.

[Evie McLeod]

Stop wanting to work and not doing what's in front of you. Like, you have to do step one to get to step.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, do you think that's out of laziness or do you think that's out of more so like imposter syndrome fear? I find it's usually that one.

[Evie McLeod]

What? Imposter syndrome?

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, of like. No, I found they know what to do. Well, maybe they don't always know what to do, but it's like they, they're not doing it because they're timid and they're like afraid to reach out or take that risk. And I'm like, you just gotta do it. But I still agree with the statement of I agree to work smarter and sleep sometimes.

[Evie McLeod]

Like, yes, you don't need to hustle harder, you need to work smarter. Ready? Sleep sometimes. I think most of the time I would agree with that. But there are scenarios where I'm like, put the frickin boundaries, slash like work smarter concepts to the wayside and just get crap done to see momentum in your business and then start implementing some boundaries. Because I think some people are so like, I have to have all my ducks in a row.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes.

[Evie McLeod]

To even have a like business. And I'm like, you're, you're literally like so focused on the ducks that you're not agreed. Getting any work anyways. That was my sassiness. Okay, the next one says, I'm so tired of boring monochrome websites. Can designers please usher in an era of elegant and timeless that includes color? Oh.

[Lindsay Roman]

I feel like subtly personally victimized by this.

[Evie McLeod]

You have some red. You.

[Lindsay Roman]

I do have some red. Dang it.

[Evie McLeod]

You have a pop of red.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's the only color that's fine. I, I, I could see if you're the kind of person that doesn't like the minimal, like serif. I don't know what other words to describe, like that type of style. It's like very trendy and for a while. Yeah. The neutral serif fonts, trendy, abstract, modern, lots of lines, lots of minimal vibes.

[Evie McLeod]

Like always. That is usually specifically saying like color and monochrome. So she's talking about.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's what I'm saying. She's, she's ragging from what it sounds like on all of those websites because they're all neutral and I feel like that's trendy. I will say though, in 2025, I've noticed a lot more swing back to color.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

In different elements of branding.

[Evie McLeod]

And I've seen it a lot in home decor.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes.

[Evie McLeod]

Home decor is very much swinging away from gray to sad beige. Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

We went from millennial gray to sad beige. And now we're fully into like, embrace all the color. See?

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. But yes, I don't know if this person's a photographer. They might be. I can't remember who put this down. I'm only speaking to photographers and maybe like graphic designers or anything where the service or the product that you're giving has an element of color in it, where you. And maybe that's not applicable to. Well, if you're like a web designer, you don't always have control over the colors that your client might choose for their website.

[Evie McLeod]

Right.

[Lindsay Roman]

With photography, you can direct the outfits, you can direct the location. So you obviously have a good wedding outline.

[Evie McLeod]

You're not going to tell them what the bridesmaids can wear.

[Lindsay Roman]

Exactly, exactly. So you don't always have like full, total creative control over the colors that will show up in your photos. And so, and this is maybe just my personal opinion, I think you can easily be a photographer depending on your style, that the branding in and of itself and therefore the website can be bold and colorful. But I often find that this is my hot take. I feel like I often find that if the brand, for a photographer specifically, I'm talking like mostly to photographers and I think this could apply to web designers too. Just because the elements of the visuals are there. If your branding is so colorful, even if that goes with your, your vibe, maybe I'm second guessing myself. I think it depends on your photos. But I'm like, there's an element for me that if the branding and website is popping with so much color, I think that distracts from your actual work.

[Evie McLeod]

It can.

[Lindsay Roman]

But then I'm like, there is photography styles that's very studio and like flash and like maybe that could go along.

[Evie McLeod]

With it or even like you attract because you're of your love for all bold colors and like, you know, playful and like a little out there, whatever. That's the type of clients you attract. So typically you are shooting weddings or couples who are wacky or like all sorts of like they do the bright, colorful florals. So that's in your work. So it really ties in beautifully with.

[Lindsay Roman]

I think it's the minority that are more of that bold, super, like avant garde. Like they're really like using color very strategically. I feel like the majority of people and I would even consider us in this category are like normal. That's not, it's not normal, but it's like you get it. Like, it's like we're boring.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, it's like it's like we're boring and monochromatic.

[Lindsay Roman]

I don't know, I. I'm generalizing like a Huge point of it. Like the majority of the industry, I would say doesn't lean on bold color choices as an artistic style in their work themselves.

[Evie McLeod]

Yes.

[Lindsay Roman]

And so for the majority of photographers, I feel like that don't do that. When you have like a bright color in on your website and I've seen people do it where it's like what like, like a soft pink or like a yellow or something like that. I think that's fine. But it's like when it's like so many colors and you're trying to be like have a turquoise and an orange and like, like all these colors, I think there's an element that, that can distract from the photos themselves.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

So I think that's almost where the trend. Well, I also think outside of the photography industry, minimalism and like neutral. Neutral.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Modern is like an in style.

[Evie McLeod]

I'm also the person, maybe it's just me, but I'm like my branding has both for the last 10 years like have all reflected my personal. Like my old brand had like a deep rust and like a, you know, whatever and it all. That was how I was styling my home and the colors I was wearing. And like so I'm like the brand that I have now. I'm like the colors very much are represented in my home and like with my decor and my clothing that I wear.

[Lindsay Roman]

And I would say you have a little bit of color I think, but it's mostly still neutral like mine.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. So it's, it's one of those things that I'm like ultimately do. I think I kind of disagree a little bit. I don't disagree with this hot take.

[Lindsay Roman]

I think it's a personal preference because somebody says I'm so tired of boring monochrome websites. I personally am not tired of neutral, minimal. Classy website.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. So I think it's a hot take or a personal opinion. I also think, hey, let's bring in color where color's needed. Agreed.

[Lindsay Roman]

Agreed. I think, I think if someone just listened to that and said, oh, I'm going to splash color and throw it up on my website, more like color.

[Evie McLeod]

Is going to make me stand out.

[Lindsay Roman]

I think some people think that and I would disagree because I think it's going to make you them distracted from.

[Evie McLeod]

The actual work again when it comes to photographers, if it blends with your work and it ties in with you, your personality, your work.

[Lindsay Roman]

Tampons or cups for women, put frickin pink all over like, you know what I'm saying? Like use color.

[Evie McLeod]

But even with photo, I'VE seen some photographers use a lot of color really well, but it ties in with their personality and the clients they attract and the work that they shoot.

[Lindsay Roman]

Agreed.

[Evie McLeod]

Okay.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay, Moving on.

[Evie McLeod]

The next one says, please stop addressing yourself as we on your. On everything. Your website, social media, etc. When it's literally just you and your business. I don't know why that grinds my gears so much. If there are no other people working in your business, you need to change that.

[Lindsay Roman]

Agreed. Agreed. Read so hard.

[Evie McLeod]

When people are like, corporate we, or.

[Lindsay Roman]

When I'm so excited to work with you, who's the we?

[Evie McLeod]

One of my pet peeves is not just the we. It's when the person will speak of themselves in third person.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, no.

[Evie McLeod]

And they're like, sally started photography when she was. And I'm like, honey, we all know you're writing this. No, this is like.

[Lindsay Roman]

Who wrote this?

[Evie McLeod]

Your mom? Oh, my gosh. That's my pet peeve.

[Lindsay Roman]

I agree with that.

[Evie McLeod]

I would agree with this one.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. I think it's unnecessary to post something. Oh, we already said that. Just kidding. Okay. Too many people are editing true to color quote unquote. But taking the saturation bar way too far down, your clients look ashy and. Or look like they've never seen the sun and it's lacking life. Have you seen the color of grass and flushed cheeks? Have you seen the color of grass and flushed cheeks? Oh, that's funny. I almost think that this was. Would have been more of a hot take, I think, in, like, 2019, 2020. I feel like there was an era where, like, desaturated, but maybe even. Maybe like 2016 to 2018, there was a. There was an era that was also.

[Evie McLeod]

The era of very, like, gold, warm orange.

[Lindsay Roman]

But I think. I think in. In lieu of that, greens especially. I think I saw. Is it Ben Hartley? I. I saw Ben Hartley do a reel that was like. Oh, that was. It was like. He was like. I can't remember the. The line, but it was like the 2018, like, photographer in me trying to. And it was like him fighting with the mouse on the green HSL and, like, going down to make it, like, muted like a mint.

[Evie McLeod]

That's funny.

[Lindsay Roman]

I feel like. I feel like I see this less now. I think people. I was gonna still do it a little.

[Evie McLeod]

I personally, like, when I read that that, like, hot take or unpopular opinion, I was like, I don't even know what she's talking about. Like, now.

[Lindsay Roman]

I do. I mean, I think it. There was an era and maybe some People still do it a little bit.

[Evie McLeod]

I think I would have if she like. I think there's an element that I'm like, I don't feel like I see that now is more of what I'm saying.

[Lindsay Roman]

I think I see more. If we're talking about trendy editing tones, I see more of like the cinematic. Filmy.

[Evie McLeod]

Yes.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like Miles, leave it. Esther Cannon style of editing now.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Versus like too golden or too desaturated.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

I don't feel like their edits are desaturated. I feel like it's more green and yellow.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Almost like it's a. Like a. Who's that director?

[Evie McLeod]

Anderson.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. No.

[Lindsay Roman]

Woody Allen. No. What?

[Evie McLeod]

I think it's Wes Anderson.

[Lindsay Roman]

Is Woody Allen not a director? No, no, I made that up. Who's Woody Allen? Who is that? Is that an actor?

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, no, I mean Wes Anderson. Okay.

[Evie McLeod]

You're welcome.

[Lindsay Roman]

It's like an indie Wes Anderson film.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like a filmy, cinematic vibe. That's. I feel like the trend. Maybe that's what she's talking about. I'm not sure.

[Evie McLeod]

Maybe that is. I don't know.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, no, because she said editing true to color. I wouldn't consider that editing style true to color.

[Evie McLeod]

I agree. If you're. If you're changing. If you're editing true to color. But when you go like click on the before and after and you see that like all the colors are significantly changing.

[Lindsay Roman]

Red cheeks and then you see the edited and it's like they're ash.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Or like the grass is significantly changing color. Like, hey, that might not fall under true to color again. If it's your style, that's great. Like, you know, whatever. So I. Whatever. Nice opinion.

[Lindsay Roman]

Whatever.

[Evie McLeod]

I said nice opinion. I actually meant like, great as I. I love that. Okay, moving on. You don't always need to niche down. I turned down opportunities I wish I hadn't because I was quote, unquote, only a wedding photographer.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's a take my.

[Evie McLeod]

I think. I think she ended up. Didn't she send a follow up to that?

[Lindsay Roman]

She might have.

[Evie McLeod]

I think she said something like. I want to clarify. I think it was something along the lines of like, you could be shooting other things, but if, like you might want to separate the brands, but that doesn't mean you.

[Lindsay Roman]

Which means that she still understands the basis of why niching down is important.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

If you have to clarify it.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

By. If you have to say this and then clarify it so you don't always have to niche down. I turn down opportunities I wish I hadn't because I was only a wedding photographer. I'm wondering if she means, like, she turned down, like, branding, like, she got a branding inquiry, and she turned it down and regrets it every day because she was like, oh, but I don't do that. Or I shouldn't do that because I'm a wedding photographer. Here's the thing. You can do whatever you want. You can take it. I. In my opinion, this can be. Go so many ways. You can do whatever you want and take whatever you want. Just maybe don't market it unless you want to. Huh?

[Evie McLeod]

Don't present yourself. I guess in my opinion, you don't want to present yourself as the expert in everything, because no one will believe that. Agree. Everyone will identify that you're the jack of all trades, which probably means you're, like, mediocre at everything.

[Lindsay Roman]

Here's. Okay, I'm gonna say this as kind as I possibly can.

[Evie McLeod]

Oh, Sassy Lindsay's coming up.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, imagine you go to a photographer's website and you all know the ones I'm talking about, where it's like, you see the list of tabs up at the top, and you see, like, you see weddings, you see couples, you see maternity, you see families, you see newborn, you see concerts, you see events, you see bar mitzvahs, Maybe that's an event.

[Evie McLeod]

That's an event.

[Lindsay Roman]

But whatever, Whatever. But seniors, seniors, portraits, branding.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Fashion, interiors, real estate. Like you, That's. I'm being a little dramatic, but I've seen websites where it lists, like, almost all of those. I can guarantee you the copy on that website is not speaking to a single individual. It's very watered down. It's very basic. It's very bad, frankly. Probably.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, I also think there's such a different skill set in doing interiors versus shooting a wedding. And that's not to say that you can't be very skilled at both and shooting both. I'm not saying you can't. I'm just saying you probably want to either divide those brands or focus on one and building one thing stronger, faster, better. Because that's a big part of niching is it gives you so much more clarity of what you're working on. And then you can, like, be like, hey, now, I want to build out an interior, like a separate, like, brand or business for interiors. And I shoot those, like, during the weekdays. And, like, whatever. I'm not saying you can't do both, but, like, when a client comes to your website and looks for, like, a wedding photographer, and they're seeing all sorts of interiors all over it. Just like it, it doesn't showcase that you have the skills for what they want.

[Lindsay Roman]

I have a really good example. Okay. Teemu. Is that how you say it?

[Evie McLeod]

I think so.

[Lindsay Roman]

I just like had a second hand embarrassment moment. I'm like, what if it's Temu? I think it's Temu. T E M U. You've all seen the ads. You go to their site. Half of it's $0. That doesn't make any sense to me. But it has everything. It has everything under the sun. And you know, he's shaking his head yes. You know, not a single thing on there is quality.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

You know, because it's a, it's a crapshoot for everything under the sun that you could possibly think of. That it's all gonna be bad.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And not good quality. And, and that's why it's free. So people are expecting low prices. So when somebody's coming to your website and you're having every tab under the sun of every single thing that you could possibly shoot with a camera, they're automatically gonna be like, okay, weddings are gonna be 500 bucks sessions 50. Like, let's go. Like that's, that's what you're communicating by.

[Evie McLeod]

Being a jacket perception. It's also based on marketing. It's also. Or like, it also affects marketing. It also affects your ability to have clarity and focus in your business. There's just so much that it affects.

[Lindsay Roman]

So like your process for your seniors cannot possibly be the same as a process for a bar mitzvah. Cannot possibly be the same process for your concert photography cannot possibly be the same for your families for your weddings. No.

[Evie McLeod]

So this hot take of you don't always need to niche down. I, I think I, I understand there are exceptions. So in that case I might agree with it. Maybe separating a brand or like you still shoot stuff on the side. Like you still get a lot of family inquiries and you shoot those but you don't market them. And then I would say, yeah, like take the money, get the check. Like serve those clients well while you're building towards what? Like, so there are exceptions. Absolutely. But if that statement were like niching down is unnecessary, I would be like hard disagree, hard disagree. So, okay, is your workflow for your clients all over the freaking place? Is stuff falling through the cracks and you feel so overwhelmed trying to stay on top of client communication? Don't worry, we have all been there. If that is you, you have to hear about the best investment we have ever made into our businesses. Honeybook a client relationship management software. It is an all in one project management tool that is designed specifically for creative entrepreneurs.

[Lindsay Roman]

When I tell you it streamlines everything and gives me my life back, I am not kidding. Integrated inquiry forms, client workflow and automations contracts invoicing calendar integration. They also have templates, brand customization abilities and an app so you can send invoices and emails while you're on the go.

[Evie McLeod]

Honeybook gives you the ability to streamline everything for an excellent client experience directly from your fingertips so you no longer have to spend 24. 7 Working in your business and you can get back to living your life.

[Lindsay Roman]

Instead, we promise, Honeybook will revolutionize your business the way it has ours. In addition to a free seven day trial, we have an exclusive offer for our podcast listeners. 35% off the first two years. All you have to do is go to share.honeybook.comheart and claim your discount. That's share.honeybook.com heart or you can check out the link in our show Notes.

[Evie McLeod]

Hello, I wanted to interrupt this episode really quick to remind you that we have an apparel shop with heart filled pieces. See what we did there that we have designed with you in mind.

[Lindsay Roman]

In the shop we've got T shirts, crop tops, sweatshirts, mugs, hats and more all created with comfy and cute designs that you can rock in your everyday life.

[Evie McLeod]

This collection is for you. If you love the show and want to share it with your friends in a cool way. Or if you want to wear something cute as heck that was intentionally designed with powerful phrases to remind that you can do it, you were made to be a world changer and that the Lord created you. Wildly capable of big freaking things.

[Lindsay Roman]

Now Obvi, this is a podcast and we can't show you how cute as heck these pieces are on the show. So run, don't walk to the heart shop to check out our apparel and more. You can head to www.theheartuniversity.com apparel to grab your favorite pieces today. Okay, next one is why do you say you don't like buzzwords? So this I think was also submitted by a copywriter, which is maybe important. Relev why do you think you don't like buzzwords and then keep right on using them in your copy. I don't know if you realize how much more or how much they are making you look exactly the same as everyone else, but they are and it's hurting your business.

[Evie McLeod]

I fully agree with that.

[Lindsay Roman]

Fully hard agree.

[Evie McLeod]

Like I think for Example, if somebody's like, what does that, what does that mean? What. What are we talking about?

[Lindsay Roman]

Buzzwords, Wild and carefree lovers.

[Evie McLeod]

Or like. Or like authentic.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, yeah, it honestly needs to burn.

[Evie McLeod]

Or even, even the word of like, candid. Like, can you. Can you think of another word? Even if you use that one or two places on like your website or something? Like, can you not use that everywhere in your bio? Candid, authentic. Like, there are just certain words that even I would say, even words like documentary photographer. Like, there are buzzwords that everyone else is using. So if you're using it, you're literally blending in with everyone else 100%. So I agree with that full, wholeheartedly. Okay. The next one says we are all entirely too emotionally invested in the art of our work, where we allow it to mentally ruin our outlook if we can't achieve the look we want or the feed we want. In the end, we are business owners and sometimes we need to treat it as such and not take it all so personally.

[Lindsay Roman]

Hard agree, hard agree. Hard agree.

[Evie McLeod]

I do think that's an unpopular opinion, though, in this, I guess I should maybe say I think we all struggle with. With ha. Like, our work is our baby and our business is our baby. Like, we're so emotionally attached to what we do.

[Lindsay Roman]

I'm. What that made me think of though, is the person that's sitting there on Lightroom, like going on slide, like pushing sliders back and forth for like hours on end.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Because they personally want to get it right. And I'm like, the things that you're doing are wasting your time.

[Evie McLeod]

Their client, your client will never notice.

[Lindsay Roman]

Literally never.

[Evie McLeod]

I've also done stuff where I've. Where I've edited a gallery or like, you know, sneak peeks or something. And then I'll go back later and I'll tweak it the tiniest bit and then I'll somehow see those photos, like the first edit and the second edit side by side. And I'm like, that changed nothing. But like, to me, I was like, oh, a dramatic difference. Right.

[Lindsay Roman]

So I feel like also when I do that every single time, my. My edit is different than my sneak peek at it. Like every single time. But not in a way that you're right. The client would not notice. I noticed, but they don't.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. I don't feel like my sneak peek at it changes dramatically for my final gallery.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. I think it just depends on my mood.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, that's fair. So I agree we're. We're a little too emotionally connected. To our work.

[Lindsay Roman]

I don't mean like, the edit. The sneak peek looks different than the rest of the photos. I mean that, like, when I go back to do it again, you tweak it. I. Well, no, I just. If I re edit that photo, it looks different. Like a little.

[Evie McLeod]

Why do you re edit the photo? That's what. I'm confused.

[Lindsay Roman]

Sorry. I'm like, like, say that there's like a set of like 10 photos in the same lighting, and one of them was a sneak peek.

[Evie McLeod]

Ye.

[Lindsay Roman]

All copy and paste going in order. And so, like, I'll get. I'll get to, like, the photo before that sneak peek and I'll realize that by the time I get it. If I, like, copy and pasted that photo. Does that make sense?

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Your edit slowly, like, adjusts throughout the gallery.

[Lindsay Roman]

That was a hyper. If you're not a photographer, that just probably went above your head, it's fine.

[Evie McLeod]

I thought you were saying every time your sneak peeks are a dramatically different edit than your final gallery to your client. And I was like, I don't mind. And then I got. I got it. We got there in the end.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yep, yep, yep, yep. Okay, where are we at?

[Evie McLeod]

Unless you are in the best shape of your entire life, as in you're perfect and have a team who takes care of editing customer service for you, you can't be photographing double and triple header weddings without sacrificing quality service for your clients and life quality for you when it comes to diet and rest.

[Lindsay Roman]

Hard agree.

[Evie McLeod]

Hard agree. Yeah, I. I literally, I shot one. I think one doubleheader. Granted, there were some, like, in my busy season where I was like, shooting a wedding on, like, Thursday, flying Friday, shooting wedding Saturday. So I wouldn't consider.

[Lindsay Roman]

I would still consider that a double header, though, in the sense of, like, the. The mental toll on your body and also the time.

[Evie McLeod]

So I've shot. I've shot several. I will not do that again.

[Lindsay Roman]

I agree.

[Evie McLeod]

Especially a back to back. Like, I'm sorry. I do feel like there's a difference if you're shooting a wedding. Wedding on Saturday, wedding on Sunday.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

There is a difference. And I. Oh, my God.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, I like that this person put almost like the. The toll on your body.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

That you're not giving yourself the. The best. But then you're also. You physically cannot be giving your clients the best.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

If you're, like, prepping for two weddings on the weekend, can you maybe you're a magical unicorn, but can you perfectly, like, prioritize and focus And. And serve this client and prepare and everything, but then do it again for another client the exact same way.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, I also say think about your physical capabilities and the energy. You're pro. You're showing up. Really, let's all be honest. You're showing up to the second wedding with half less energy. Even if. Even if we say you show up with 75%, you're not showing up with a hundred for that client. Yeah, and the other thing that I would agree with on this one is, like, you. Unless you're again, sacrificing, like, your energy tank, like, it's draining it even more, you can't edit, call, sneak peeks and send those the night of and the morning of the next wedding because you're preparing for the next. Like, you sacrifice things on your customer service, not to mention your energy for yourself and, like, your health and all that stuff.

[Lindsay Roman]

100.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, I agree with that one.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. Oh, this one's fun. You'd be better off having a friend shoot your wedding on an iPhone than have the wrong person do your photography, because at least a friend won't ruin the experience for the couple. Okay, I'm gonna read that one again. You'd be better off having a friend shoot your wedding on an iPhone than having the wrong person do your photograph, because at least a friend won't ruin the experience for the couple. What if the friend does ruin the experience for the couple because it's on an iPhone?

[Evie McLeod]

No, but I think what they're saying is, like, the wedding day, like, the wrong photographer who's, like, a bitch to you on your wedding day. Who, like, I think they're saying the person who's, like, stuck up, arrogant, you hired.

[Lindsay Roman]

You just chose or you accidentally hired the wrong person.

[Evie McLeod]

Like, the person who's like, no, you can't do that. This is not what the timeline. We have to do this. I need these photos.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay.

[Evie McLeod]

Like. Like, so you look. Even though you might have pretty photos, you might look back at it and be like, you kind of ruined my wedding day. And I don't like these photos now because I know the experience that I had with you on the day of was so crappy.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's true. Okay, so this really is putting into question what's more important. Professional photos and a bad experience.

[Evie McLeod]

I would say. I would agree with this person.

[Lindsay Roman]

Tainted or iPhone photos.

[Evie McLeod]

I would agree with you.

[Lindsay Roman]

But you had a great time.

[Evie McLeod]

I would agree with this person.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes. You would rather have iPhone photos.

[Evie McLeod]

I would rather that think.

[Lindsay Roman]

I want you to really let that settle in your soul.

[Evie McLeod]

I really would.

[Lindsay Roman]

An album of iPhone photos?

[Evie McLeod]

Yes.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay.

[Evie McLeod]

I really would rather have. I, like, if I think about. Because I've seen some vendors on wedding day, I'm just.

[Lindsay Roman]

I'm. Maybe I'm placing it in, like, the. Is it like, just this photographer doesn't have a style that you like?

[Evie McLeod]

No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm saying the photographer gave me such a bad experience.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

And they. They were so rude or stress inducing or, like, they gave me anxiety on.

[Lindsay Roman]

My wedding day before you hired them.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, I mean, you would want to hire somebody who, like, aligns like, you know, But I'm like, we don't know the whole situation. But I. I think I would agree if it's down to something that, like, hey, that photographer stands out on your wedding day as somebody who.

[Lindsay Roman]

As, like, the worst hire who, like.

[Evie McLeod]

Literally caused stress, drama, was annoying, rude, arrogant, whatever. And I look back, it not only affects my whole day, but it not only affects the photos, it affects my whole day. Like, I'm unable to, like, have the experience I want on my wedding day because my photographer is being such a bitch.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. I'm maybe not reading it as aggressive as that, but that's what it says, so maybe I should. I'm like, well, what if they're just, like. Not, like, they wouldn't be your best friend in real life.

[Evie McLeod]

See, but if they give a good experience, they're calm, they, like, handle the pressure. Well, if they're. That's a different scenario. Okay.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's how I'm reading it.

[Evie McLeod]

If it says, like, it says ruin the experience for the couple, then I would say, yeah, I'd rather have iPhone. I'm saying that as a photographer, too.

[Lindsay Roman]

You'D be better off having a friend shoot your wedding with an iPhone than having the wrong person do your photo. I guess that's where it's vague. Like, having the wrong person do your photography.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, but then it's so vague. At least a friend would. Won't ruin the experience for the couple.

[Lindsay Roman]

But that's still vague to me.

[Evie McLeod]

I guess I'm taking it as, like, I really am taking the. Ruin the experience literally in the sense that, like, yeah, like, I don't know. I've seen some wedding planners, and this is specifically wedding planners. I. Because I'm the photographer on the day, so I don't see the other photographers, really. Actually, I have seen a couple photographers where I've been in weddings, and I've seen, like, one or two that I was like, whoa, like, the Way you are treating this client and this timeline and stuff is, like, intense. But I've experienced it as a photographer more so because I, like, feel a lot more weddings to choose from there where I've seen the planner, like, basically create scenarios where the. The couple feels like scum of the earth. They. They are given so much stress, they are not served well. They are, like, anxious and confused and annoyed on their own wedding day of, like, what is happening.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, I feel like that might be a little different, though, because that's a planner. So you might not feel that when you're looking at the photos, but a.

[Evie McLeod]

Lot of it is attitude.

[Lindsay Roman]

No, I agree. What I'm saying, though, is, like, if the planner sucked, would I still rather have a friend with an iPhone? Cause at least the photos, like, the person taking the photos isn't the source of the bad.

[Evie McLeod]

No, no, no. I'm just saying I've seen a vendor who works closely with a couple on a day.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes.

[Evie McLeod]

Low key. Taint entire wedding day. Not ruin, but taint very strongly. And so I'm putting that experience as a photographer where there's now photos associated with it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes.

[Evie McLeod]

And I'm like, I would probably rather have friends.

[Lindsay Roman]

I'm curious if sepia. If sepia bride would have wanted that.

[Evie McLeod]

That's a whole other conversation.

[Lindsay Roman]

Go back to the episode. I mean, this is old news by now, but we did an episode, but.

[Evie McLeod]

We also, like, we shared our opinion, and straight up, we. We cited.

[Lindsay Roman]

Did you hear that she got divorced?

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's none of our business. Okay.

[Evie McLeod]

She spills tea and then moves on.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay, where are we at? Where we at?

[Evie McLeod]

Taking on associate weddings without having an official associate team and outsourcing to other photographers in that city is greedy and unprofessional.

[Lindsay Roman]

Wait, I'm gonna need you to read that again. I don't understand. Hold on.

[Evie McLeod]

Taking on associate weddings without having an official associate team at basically outsourcing your weddings to other photographers in that city is greedy and unprofessional.

[Lindsay Roman]

Do people.

[Evie McLeod]

Yes.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Yes. Yes. Yes, they do. Yes, they do.

[Lindsay Roman]

Hold, please.

[Evie McLeod]

Yes, they do.

[Lindsay Roman]

This is therapy hour now. Is that what I did with Sunny?

[Evie McLeod]

Yes, but no, because. Because you guys were, like, really good friends. She. You had shot together. She knows, like, your skill well.

[Lindsay Roman]

And I also made a pricing guide for her, and I made, like, a website page for her, but it wasn't ever public because she was sorry. For anybody that doesn't know I did a little bit of an associate with another photographer friend, I would consider.

[Evie McLeod]

You brought her on as a team.

[Lindsay Roman]

Associate, but she still had her own wedding, which is why I didn't publicize her as a.

[Evie McLeod]

She was your go to. This is the scenario where just because.

[Lindsay Roman]

You'Re booked on a wedding day and you're greedy, you want to book it anyway.

[Evie McLeod]

This is the scenario where you're like, I can make that, like, somebody inquires for, like, a Chicago wedding, but you're based in New York, and you're shooting a wedding in New York that weekend. And you're like, I, you know, I can have one of my associates do it for you. And then you reach out and you find somebody in Chicago that you want.

[Lindsay Roman]

You book the client first without sharing who that associate is.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

How would the client. How would the client just be, like, okay with that? Like, without knowing, hey, if I were the client and the.

[Evie McLeod]

I think I've never done this, so I haven't been on the back end, but I believe it's communicated as, like, I have a team of associates. You will be working with one of my incredible associates.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

It's greedy and unprofessional. I, I, yeah, I would agree with.

[Lindsay Roman]

That if that's the case. Wait, taking on associate weddings without having an associate team and outsourcing to other photographers in that city. Yeah. So it's basically, it's basically like hiring a wedding and then, like, going on a Facebook group and being like, who's available?

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. That's.

[Evie McLeod]

I've seen this actually a lot, but, but more so in the past. Okay, I completely agree. I, I do not. And I've heard horror stories of somebody.

[Lindsay Roman]

At that point in time, you're not working with somebody who you trust, who you know, who you've trained, possibly, and who you're just literally, like, getting their money.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And then just shoving somebody else at them that doesn't know you necessarily. Or your work.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, okay. Yeah, we agree with that. Okay. Next one is you shouldn't share sneak peeks on social before the clients have had a chance to see them. Yes.

[Evie McLeod]

Okay. Hands down. Agree. We were discussing whether or not we should put this in, because I was like, I don't know if that's a hot take. And then we were like, actually, I think that is a hot take. We just. Because people do it, we firmly believe that and we teach that. So for us, it doesn't feel like a hot take because we're, like, obvious.

[Lindsay Roman]

That feels like an obvious statement.

[Evie McLeod]

I. But I see a lot. I see people do that a lot.

[Lindsay Roman]

The thing is, I don't know if we from the public perception can know. Just because someone shares something on social media, you don't know unless you're in their back end.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, it's true. But they share. But I've seen like some of the language around. It will be like sending off like uploading the sneak peek gallery now or something and it'll be like some sneak peeks on stories like, you know, or like just sent these off and who knows, they could be like, hey, I waited and I got a response from my client and now I'm posting them and I'm saying yeah, just sent these off. But like there's been things where I'm like, you can kind of tell. Or it's like, like the night of the wedding and I'm like, unless you show those to those, the clients.

[Lindsay Roman]

Which they might have.

[Evie McLeod]

Which they might have. But I don't think a lot of photographers do that. It's like, yeah, they're posting it to their stories the night of the wedding after they got back to the hotel and maybe they sent it to the client and then immediately posted. But you're not giving your client time to see it. Like I, one of the things I teach is I want to wait until I've gotten a response from my clients that they've seen the sneak peeks or that I can see in Honeybook that they've opened the email and they've at least seen it. And then I'll usually wait like another like hour or so, like hour two, whatever. Give them time to like if they just opened it while they were like eating like dinner, breakfast together, whatever and like they want to go back and look later. I want to give them ample time to be able to consume because I cannot agree with this enough. Like it's their photos that they get to see themselves first before the whole rest of the world sees them.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

So I always, I, I can't agree with that one enough.

[Lindsay Roman]

I agree with that. What? Where are we at?

[Evie McLeod]

Being multi passionate is often just lack of commitment in disguise.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay, wait, that's t. Being multi passionate is often just lack of commitment in disguise. Wait, do I low key agree with that?

[Evie McLeod]

I, I low key do. See, here's the thing though. Here's the thing though. You can be a multi crisis. You can be a multi passionate person and have like work on like self discipline and like stay committed to stuff. So not saying that all multi passionate people are like, like don't commit and aren't disciplined. It's just, I think the term or the concept of multi passionate people. I think there is a concept of, like, you.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, you can't decide.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And then you just kind of. You try to do it all.

[Evie McLeod]

You can't commit to something and actually follow through and see the results. So you keep jumping from thing to thing.

[Lindsay Roman]

We hinting back at niching, I think.

[Evie McLeod]

But I'm also even thinking multiple businesses, like.

[Lindsay Roman]

No, I know, I know. That's obviously one example.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Yeah. I've coached people who literally will come in and be like, I'm doing this and this and this, and I have all the ideas. I want to do this, this, this, this, this. And I'm like, whoa.

[Lindsay Roman]

You're like, okay, pick one.

[Evie McLeod]

Let's start with one. Let's build one.

[Lindsay Roman]

Peel back the layers of this onion.

[Evie McLeod]

Maybe two if you can. You know, depending on how they flow together. So I agree with that.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's wild.

[Evie McLeod]

Okay, almost done. Last two.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, sorry. It's me. Not everyone is meant to be an entrepreneur. And that's a good thing. I would agree with that.

[Evie McLeod]

I would agree with that.

[Lindsay Roman]

If everyone was an entrepreneur, no one would be the customers.

[Evie McLeod]

What?

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, I guess you can be a What?

[Evie McLeod]

That was the most blonde logic I have ever heard in my entire life.

[Lindsay Roman]

Because just because you own a business doesn't mean that you.

[Evie McLeod]

Just Because I literally died.

[Lindsay Roman]

Because, like, you get out of business and still shop elsewhere.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Are you not a customer for anything? What?

[Lindsay Roman]

Bro.

[Evie McLeod]

I'm literally crying. I can't. What was I even saying?

[Lindsay Roman]

What was the point that I was trying to make?

[Evie McLeod]

Thank you.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, yeah. Not everyone is meant to be an entrepreneur in the sense that. Let's just sidebar that. That's not what I mean. Not everyone's meant to be an entrepreneur. Some people thrive in a nine to five. Listen, listen. Some people were meant to be corporate bosses and corporate girlies. And some people were meant to, you know, work the drive through. I need to stop.

[Evie McLeod]

I literally can't.

[Lindsay Roman]

I literally can't. Okay, this is. This is a moment where I should stop talking.

[Evie McLeod]

Okay.

[Lindsay Roman]

I. I agree with the core of that, though. I agree.

[Evie McLeod]

If everyone were entrepreneurs, who would be the customers?

[Lindsay Roman]

If you own a business, you can never shop again or visit anywhere or go any place. I literally can't. I can't. Okay. All right.

[Evie McLeod]

This is. I almost feel like we should just end on that one. But we have one more. I'm gonna go with the last one. Okay. Your dream client isn't scrolling Instagram looking for you. They're being referred by someone they Trust. Here's the thing.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, well, both.

[Evie McLeod]

I was gonna say. I think.

[Lindsay Roman]

I think they could be scrolling to look for you.

[Evie McLeod]

I think I have definitely had clients book me who have found me from a reel. I did. Or a carousel or something that was shared. Like, they literally found me through that and then shortly after booked me because of it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right, right.

[Evie McLeod]

So I would definitely.

[Lindsay Roman]

Is this trying to say what's more important, social media marketing or word of mouth marketing?

[Evie McLeod]

No, I. I don't know, but I think if there's. If there's any element of that that I would fully agree with is focusing on relationships. And I don't just mean, like, networking. I. I mean, like, even on social media, focusing on, like, building a community with a relationships where, like, a friend. You're. I saw you about to break. You were trying so hard to hold it together.

[Lindsay Roman]

I'm still here, guys. We're talking about Instagram versus word of mouth. I got that.

[Evie McLeod]

This. No, it's not. It's. It's more. I think it's about, like, hey, if you're focused on building, even on Instagram, a community that is, like, you have relationship, know, like, and trust factor with.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right.

[Evie McLeod]

Everyone who follows you. And then those people become your brand ambassadors. And when their friend or cousin or whoever gets engaged, they're like, hey, I know this photographer.

[Lindsay Roman]

I don't think that's what this person's talking about, though.

[Evie McLeod]

No.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, maybe your dream client isn't scrolling Instagram looking for you. They're being referred by someone they trust. Well, you could. Whether you're building trust with past clients that are then referring you or even vendors that are referring you or Instagram followers that are referring you. I think the basis of what we would agree with is relationship relationships and building brand loyalty.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Whether that's online or in person.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And. And fostering connection and community in that. And you can still do that on Instagram and then build like. That's a huge way that we get clients, honestly, is people following us for years. And then when they get engaged, like, they're like, oh, no, we have to have you, because I trust you. I followed you forever. Yeah, that's not what this person was saying. But.

[Evie McLeod]

But I think it's the. It's the concept of, like, I disagree. I do think some clients are scrolling Instagram. They're looking at hashtags, they're looking at the venue photos, they're looking at, you know, different things. They might just be also scrolling and find this gorgeous, like, you know, wedding or whatever. On reels and be like, wait, who's this photographer? And then they're like, I'm gonna inquire. I was needing someone to reach out to in the next few weeks, you know, so like. So I think that does happen. But I would agree with, like, people referrals and like. Like a personal somebody that they trust. Recommending somebody that that person trusts. Yeah, that is huge. But I think you can still build that on social media. I'm not saying that's the only way to market, but I am saying, like. Like, there is still so much power with social media.

[Lindsay Roman]

Agreed.

[Evie McLeod]

Even in that relationship side of things, too. All right. Now that we've gotten it back together, I literally cannot. If everyone were entrepreneurs, who would be the customers?

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, that's gonna be very much Jessica Simpson type thing to say.

[Evie McLeod]

That is going to be an absolute.

[Lindsay Roman]

Gem of the My Chicken of the Sea comment.

[Evie McLeod]

That's like your. Like, what is your favorite date? Or like, what's. What's. Oh, describe your perfect date. I would say April 29, because it's not.

[Lindsay Roman]

An interviewer asked Demi Lovato one time, what's your favorite dish? Meaning, like food? And she was like, I really like mugs because they.

[Evie McLeod]

I can't.

[Lindsay Roman]

It was that. It's that moment.

[Evie McLeod]

All right, well, we got our point across, friend. This was so much fun. Thank you so much for submitting your unpopular opinions and your hot takes. Hopefully you enjoyed us, like, bantering and reacting.

[Lindsay Roman]

And if you want us to do this again, what genre of. Of life should we do it? Because we did business. A lot of these were photography based also, but like business, unpopular opinions, motherhood, marriage. Marriage. We could go in so many directions.

[Evie McLeod]

There's so many that we could talk about. So if you enjoyed this, let us know. I will say we would love to hear your feedback. Specifically in the Heart and Hustle group. Dm or the Heart Hustle Facebook group. Those are the two greatest, best places that our community is popping and chatting. We would love to hear from you there. And those are also the two places where we will poll people for episodes like this or questions Q. And as for future episodes with us, all that. So make sure you're in both of those. The group DM and the Facebook group. Both of those will be linked in the show notes. And in the meantime, go enjoy the rest of your day and we'll see you on the next episode.

[Lindsay Roman]

Sam.