444: How to Support a Friend Going Through a Miscarriage

Summary

The Heart & Hustle Podcast: Episode 444 Summary

Title: How to Support a Friend Going Through a Miscarriage
Hosts: Evie McLeod & Lindsey Roman
Release Date: August 5, 2025
Description: In this heartfelt episode, Evie McLeod and Lindsey Roman delve into the sensitive topic of supporting a friend or loved one experiencing a miscarriage. Drawing from personal experiences and professional insights, they offer practical advice, compassionate guidance, and actionable tips to help listeners navigate this delicate situation with empathy and understanding.

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1. Introduction

Evie and Lindsey open the episode by acknowledging the tenderness of the subject, emphasizing its necessity for meaningful conversations. They highlight the importance of addressing the nuances involved in supporting someone through a miscarriage, whether the listener has personally experienced it or not.

Evie (00:16): "Today we're talking about how to handle when a friend or a sibling or a loved one goes through a miscarriage or what to do."

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2. Personal Experiences and the Importance of the Topic

The hosts share their own experiences with miscarriages, both as individuals who have suffered losses and as supporters of friends facing similar tragedies. This dual perspective establishes their credibility and empathy, setting the foundation for the advice they provide.

Lindsey (02:30): "Both Lindsay and I have experienced losses and miscarriages ourselves as well as walked with many through many miscarriages."

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3. Key Strategies for Supporting Someone Through a Miscarriage

a. Be There for Them

Evie and Lindsey emphasize the critical importance of being present for someone grieving a miscarriage. They discuss practical ways to offer support without overwhelming the grieving individual.

• Send Regular Text Check-Ins:
  Consistent, heartfelt messages can provide ongoing support beyond the initial period of loss.

  Evie (07:19): "Do not just sit with them in the grief or text them or whatever for like a week or two. That is not how long that grief lasts."

• Bring Them Coffee or a Meal:
  Small gestures like bringing coffee or arranging a meal can alleviate daily burdens and show tangible care.

  Lindsey (08:25): "It's literally just, here you go, dropping this off."

• Mark Important Dates:
  Remembering and acknowledging significant dates, such as the due date or Mother's Day, can provide additional support during poignant moments.

  Evie (12:48): "Mark that due date on your calendar... I put you know, general month like."

b. What Not to Say

The hosts caution against phrases and comments that, despite good intentions, may minimize the grieving person's pain or create additional emotional strain.

• Avoid Minimizing Statements:
  Phrases starting with "At least..." or "Everything happens for a reason" can feel dismissive.

  Lindsey (17:58): "If you begin a sentence with 'At least,' you're minimizing their pain."

• Do Not Share Unsolicited Advice:
  Refrain from offering solutions or comparing their loss to other experiences, such as pet deaths or other types of grief.

  Evie (29:17): "Please, please, for the love, don't compare my dead baby to your dog that passed some months ago."

• Avoid Speculating About Pregnancy:
  Especially on social media or with strangers, avoid making assumptions about someone's pregnancy status.

  Lindsey (35:00): "Don't speculate on if people are pregnant... You don't know their story."

c. What to Say

Instead of minimizing or offering unsolicited advice, focus on expressing genuine sympathy and support.

• Express Genuine Sympathy:
  Statements like "I'm so sorry for your loss" are appropriate, especially when personalized.

  Evie (39:02): "I'm so sorry for your loss."

• Offer Ongoing Support Without Pressure:
  Let them know you're available without expecting a response.

  Lindsey (40:15): "No need to text back. I'm here for you."

• Acknowledge Your Limitations:
  If you haven't experienced a miscarriage, it's okay to admit that you may not fully understand but still offer support.

  Evie (47:35): "I can't imagine what you're feeling right now, but I care about you."

d. Specific Scenarios: Telling a Friend You're Pregnant

Navigating how to share your own joyous news with someone who has recently experienced a miscarriage requires sensitivity.

• Wait Before Sharing:
  Consider delaying your announcement to give your friend time to grieve.

  Evie (49:19): "Maybe wait to tell them within a matter of days or even a few weeks of their loss."

• Tell Them Privately:
  Avoid announcing your pregnancy in group settings where it might be overwhelming for the grieving friend.

  Lindsey (52:30): "Tell them privately. Don't do it in a group."

• Provide Options for Response:
  Allow them to process the news on their own terms, offering opportunities for them to engage if they choose.

  Evie (55:00): "Let me know if you want to talk about it."

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4. Nuances and Considerations

Evie and Lindsey discuss the importance of self-awareness and understanding the unique dynamics of each friendship. They highlight that the approach may vary based on how close you are to the grieving person and their specific needs.

Lindsey (57:03): "Have awareness... of the relationship."

They also touch upon the different layers of grief depending on previous experiences with loss, underscoring that each person's journey is unique and requires tailored support.

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5. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with a reiteration of the main points, emphasizing the importance of showing up for friends in their time of need, even if it means being imperfect. Evie and Lindsey encourage listeners to share the episode as a valuable resource for anyone navigating the complexities of supporting someone through a miscarriage.

Evie (58:39): "It's one of those things that I think as women especially is incredible to be like, I don't know, girded with information to have."

Lindsey (59:14): "Share this. I feel like this is going to be a resource when anybody asks."

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Key Takeaways

• Presence Over Perfection: Being present and consistently checking in is more valuable than having the perfect words.
• Avoid Minimizing Grief: Steer clear of phrases that could downplay their pain, such as "At least..." or "Everything happens for a reason."
• Offer Genuine Support: Simple gestures like sending meals, marking important dates, and personalized messages can make a significant difference.
• Respect Boundaries in Joyful Announcements: When sharing your own good news, do so thoughtfully to respect the grieving person's emotional state.
• Self-Awareness is Crucial: Tailor your support based on your relationship and their unique circumstances, acknowledging that every grief journey is different.

Evie and Lindsey's compassionate guidance in this episode serves as a vital resource for anyone looking to support a friend or loved one through the heartbreaking experience of a miscarriage.

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are your hosts, Evie McLeod and Lindsay Roman. Welcome to the show and our little corner of the universe friend. We are just so happy you're here and we are happy to have this conversation. I think it's, it's a tender one. It's a tender one, but it's necessary.

[B]

It's definitely necessary. I feel like you've gathered from the title, but today we're talking about how to handle when a friend or a sibling or a loved one or somebody close to you goes through a miscarriage or what to do. And, and honestly, we're going to talk about the nuances of if you've had one, if you haven't had one, if you've experienced grief in any capacity as well.

[A]

Telling a friend that you are pregnant when they've gone through a loss.

[B]

All the nuances about how to handle a delicate situation. I feel like we both, because we've experienced it, have, have received messages over the years of like, hey, my, I know you've experienced this. My friend just had a miscarriage. What do I do? How do I handle it? I want to love them, but I genuinely don't know how in this moment. So that's what we're going to talk about today.

[A]

Yeah. Well, let's dive in. If we asked a room full of people this question, we are sure just about every hand in the room would be raised, ours included. Whether it's in your business, in motherhood, school, or even your marriage, there are moments when we all feel like we are filled with doubt and inadequacy. So if you're feeling this way, ain't alone, my friend. We are here to help you reframe the thought patterns in your life to live in freedom and enjoy. Download our free guide to smashing that imposter [e-mail] imposter. Hey. Hey.

[B]

I'm Lindsay Roman.

[A]

And I'm Evie McLeod. And we are family and legacy focused serial entrepreneurs and the founders of the Heart University, a business education company with a mission to help you thrive in your business and life.

[B]

Welcome to our entrepreneur cocktail hour where business and marketing strategies meet faith. Real talk and raw and life changing conversations.

[A]

At the end of the day, we are all in this together, figuring out how to navigate the ups and downs, the messy and the beautiful and everything in between. This is a community where you can come as you are, get inspired. Yeah, we're here equipped. We're going to dive in. In case you don't listen to the heart, just a little, like, backstory. Both Lindsay and I have experienced losses and miscarriages ourselves as well as walked with many through many miscarriages. So that's kind of where we're coming from. This is from both experiencing it as, like, a reception. Like, we're the receiving end of, like.

[B]

Things that we loved people doing and didn't love people doing, but also because we've had friends, even each other, like, experience it. We're.

[A]

We're.

[B]

We just. We've experienced both ends of the spectrum. And I think it's a nuanced topic of, like, I think at the end of the day, everyone has good intentions of, hey, I want to love on this person. And I think even this conversation and the bulk of what we're going to say, I think could apply to any type of grief.

[A]

Yes, I would agree.

[B]

Obviously, we're going to specifically talk through the lens of a miscarriage, but if you have a friend that had a death in the family or whatever, it doesn't have to be a death. It could just be something that's really, really traumatic and heartbreaking. I think a lot of this could still apply.

[A]

Totally. All right, so we're going to kind of break these down into categories and then give some specific and tangible examples under each of those. So the first one is to be there for them.

[B]

You're like, okay, that's so specific. Thank you so much.

[A]

So detailed. But honestly, let me tell you right now from, like, this is probably more of an experiential. Like, I have experi. I felt this most when I was experiencing it, because grief and loss is. It's messy. It's hard. You don't want to say the wrong thing. You don't want to do the wrong thing. You don't want to overstep. Like, as a friend, you know, being there for another friend, it can feel like I don't want to keep reminding them of their pain or of their loss or whatever. The areas where I have actually felt the most hurt or let down by friends or family has been when people have just not, like, thought about it enough or have not been there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, they, they. They're, I think, trying to do it because they do care, and I know that well.

[B]

And I think sometimes people think, oh, they need space.

[A]

Exactly. But. But it makes you feel. Because going through any form of grief, but especially, like, I don't know what. What it is with. I think it's because miscarriage is, you.

[B]

Know, you can't see it. And there's Not a funeral.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, there's not like a visible.

[A]

And it's also so like centralized of pain to like, to you. To you and your husband. Like that. That's kind of as big, wide as the circle goes, you know, it's not like there's.

[B]

Whereas if, like, if somebody like a.

[A]

Grandpa died, like many people, there's friends, spouses, there's. There's a lot of people. Yeah. There's something about it that feels very isolating already. And there's a whole physical trauma, hormonal like mental process that you're going through too when people give you space. At least this was my experience and I. I've never heard somebody going through a miscarriage who said differently than this. Maybe there are. But when people give you space, it feels like you're being abandoned. It feels like I don't care about you enough to be uncomfortable with you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't care about you enough to be willing to say the wrong thing. But I'm showing up no matter what.

[B]

I feel like we as a society have like almost a. You could be like so close with somebody and then the second something tragic happens to them and this doesn't have to only deal with miscarriage. It could be any situation. I feel like it's usually death, though, in some capacity. I almost feel like we like forget how to act and we almost be like. We almost second guess and like we don't know how to. It's like everything that we've experienced with them in relationship before is null and void. And it's all of a sudden like. Like I don't know what to do and say. And I think.

[A]

I think it's because we're worried that we're going to hurt somebody worse in the.

[B]

In the midst of their pain.

[A]

But I truly believe it depends on the person and the grief and how they need to process. And that's one area where you can just simply like. I think we talk about, like, what.

[B]

To say and it's something to not say.

[A]

And sometimes it's simply like, like I'm gonna be here for you and tell me if. If you need me to. To step back. Like, I'm willing to be corrected, I guess, as a friend. But I'm not leaving.

[B]

Yeah. And making that.

[A]

Well, I'll be here. Yeah.

[B]

So the first category is be there for them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so we're gonna kind of go through a bunch of ways that you can practically and physically be there for them. Be there for them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, okay, the first one. This is super easy. Send text check ins. Yep. This, this I think is not like a one time thing of no, it's not like, oh, you heard that they had a miscarriage, Let me text them. Like, yeah, yes, do that. But when it says send text check ins, like multiple plural, plural, keep going.

[A]

I think we talk about this.

[B]

I think we, I think we talk.

[A]

About like continuing check ins. But I'm just going to say it here anyways just within the, the concept of like check ins. Do not just sit with them in the grief or text them or whatever for like a week or two. That is not how long that grief lasts.

[B]

So even and oftentimes that's when you get the most amount of reception of.

[A]

Like love and everyone's there for you in the first week or two and then it dies. Everyone disappears because everyone kind of moves on with their life naturally. But something that like I have done, that I've experienced friends doing for me as well, that's been a huge blessing is just like months, like months after loss, having a friend being like, hey, I'm just thinking about you today. I just want to know like, and just simply, even if I wasn't feeling grief or like, you know, like that's.

[B]

Not ever going to hurt, ever.

[A]

Oh yeah, like, like that's never going to hurt.

[B]

By texting somebody and saying like, hey, I just wanted to text in or text you. I was thinking about you and your, your sweet babe.

[A]

Yeah. Or something like it just simply makes you feel like I'm, I'm like I'm seen.

[B]

I'm continuing to hold space for you. If we're going to be current with the modern language anyway.

[A]

So like with, with the text check ins. Like do not just be like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The first week of their loss. Let me like text them a couple times. No, like I have friends who literally miscarried like a year plus ago and I'm still texting them every few weeks or you know, month. Like when I'm thinking about them, when they're popping into my mind, I'm like, hey, I just want you to know I'm praying for you today. And like, I love you.

[B]

Next one. Bring them coffee randomly. You could insert coffee with something else. Yeah, like whatever feels natural. I feel like coffee makes the most sense or anything that, you know, would like brighten their day. Like I know we did this both for a couple of friends that, that miscarried, but it's just, it's just a sweet thing to remind them of like, like stopping by and Sending something nice that like, you know, would brighten their day. And even when I have not experienced miscarriage or grief, someone does this to me. I'm like, wow, love language. And it's just, it's almost like a physical presence kind of similar to the text, but like, it's a, it's just like, hey, I have no, you don't need to do something back for me. You don't. It's not like I'm coming by and requiring a conversation from you.

[A]

It's literally just, here you go, dropping this off. And this one of the other things we said was like, send them a well meaning gift that you know they love if you're not in the same location as them. Something simple, you know, as simple as even being like, hey, I heard you mention that you like wanted this the other day or something. Or like, I, I saw this and thought of you. Let me send this to you. It's just some simply being like, I care about you. And I've gone out of my way to remind you that I'm in this with you. I care about you.

[B]

I feel like that goes into the next one. Make them dinner. I feel like this again, similarly, like, I think you could do this at any time, but especially I think when, if you know they're actively miscarrying. I think just because of the physicalness of that, it's just nice to not.

[A]

Have to physically rely well in the ment.

[B]

Like, yeah, it's a lot. You don't want to have to deal with anything.

[A]

You don't give. At least for me, I don't give a crap about food.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When I'm in that, like the depth of the actual like process the first few days, I can't, I can't even think about grocery shopping or a recipe or planning a meal or standing in the kitchen for hours. Like, no, like I, we're eating Mac and cheese. If I'm making a meal for us at that point, you know, like, or Landon's making Mac and cheese. And so for a friend to be like, hey, which we kind of, we.

[B]

Talk about later, I almost, I almost think it's interesting. And they are different, obviously, but when someone has a baby, usually friends set up a meal train that lasts like 2ish weeks. Right. Ironically. And I'm not gonna get too graphic, I don't want to like go into detail, but like a miscarriage is a mini birth. Yeah. And you physically experience a lot of the hormones and symptoms of a birth. And yet usually there's like it's not like. So I, I would even say make them dinner or even set up a meal train in, in a circumstance like that. And I would even extend that to any, any person that you know that, that has experienced grief.

[A]

I think ironically, I feel like meal trains and, and stuff for grief does.

[B]

Is more common but not for miscarriage.

[A]

I feel like, yeah, it was interesting.

[B]

Maybe it isn't. Maybe just, I don't know, I haven't experienced that myself. But I think treating it as if it's similar to what happens when someone births an actual child. Live child.

[A]

I was literally gonna say can you clarify the actual child part? Okay.

[B]

But I think also similarly to like if you don't live somewhere nearby. I think I've done this many times. When friends have experienced miscarriage, I will just doordash a meal. Like I'll, I'll either text them hey, what's your favorite meal? Or I'll text the husband, we'll get to that or like restaurant. But I'll, I'll just like doordash them food just so that they again like you make them dinner. If you don't live in the same place, you can still do something.

[A]

Yeah. One of the other things is if you knew their due date or if you were processing with them and they shared their due date or whatever. 1 I think something that is above and beyond and kind of ties in with like the continual check ins is to mark that due date on your calendar because it's hard, it's hard for you to remember. I mean realistically if that wasn't your reality. Depending on you know, when they.

[B]

Well sometimes you might not know if they, if they didn't tell you.

[A]

Yeah. When it was even even simply maybe like if you knew. Oh I, I know they were roughly this far along and being like I'm just gonna put you know, general month. General month like or you know, X amount of time down the road and just text them and be like hey, I'm thinking about you. I know your due date is approaching. Or if you know the actual like due date, putting that in your calendar and reaching out to them, them something on their due date. Because that at least for me the, the due date was something that I guess I. On my first miscarriage I, I wasn't, I didn't realize that that would be another entire ex like reprocessing of grief in a whole new way of like I should have my child here. By now I thought I'd already grieved all of this. But now it's Like a new form of it. It was. It was really hard.

[B]

Well, it's also enough time usually that like, you. Not that you've gotten over, but, like, enough process that initial grief.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it feels like almost like a second wave.

[A]

Yeah. It's a totally different form. I actually, interestingly, I experienced a totally different form of grief too, actually. It was probably after my second loss where I was like, I should have, you know, a year and a half old and be like 30 weeks pregnant with my second. And here we are with not a single baby in my home. You know, like that feeling of like another. It was a whole nother layer of grief that was, you know, whatever. But it. Grief isn't linear and it doesn't have a start and end date. So something like their due date I think is really special. Especially if you're really close to that person, family or really, like, close friend. Put that in your calendar. It's so easy to forget. And if they aren't the person who's going to share about it, text, like, or post about it, then they will probably be feeling very alone on that day. So just marking it and being proactive in advance to be like, I'm going to check in with them, send them something, make them a meal on that day, whatever, is really sad.

[B]

I feel like similarly, whenever Mother's Day is. And I think this, this might apply more so if they've miscarried before having any, like, living children. Yeah. But remembering them on Mother's Day because I think they can be hard. I feel like you have an experience specifically with this.

[A]

Well, I mean, you were not to.

[B]

Toot my own horn on.

[A]

It was. It was a moment. I don't know if I said anything to you.

[B]

Well, I think.

[A]

Was this your.

[B]

After your second one?

[A]

It was. It was my first or second. Second Mother's Day, I think, after my first loss, but it was the first one where I wasn't.

[B]

I think I didn't think about it the first Mother's Day because I was out of state.

[A]

I was in Ohio my first Mother's Day.

[B]

I remember you, I think, saying something about how hard that day was in conversation later. And so then the second Mother's Day that happened still after. I think you still had. Had only one loss at that point.

[A]

Yeah, I think. I don't remember how it was, but somehow you ended up. I don't remember I said anything over text of like.

[B]

I don't know. I don't even know if you did. I think I. It was just like after church. And I was like, hey, I know today might be hard. Do you want to go thrift or something?

[A]

You were like, do you want to go, like, come to the beach with us? Or Andrew is going to take the kids and I'll go thrifting. You pick. It was kind of like, what do you want to do today? Oh, because I think I said something like, you were like, hey, what are you guys doing? Do you want to hang out? And I was like, laynon's working. And you're like, you're alone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

On Mother's Day. And you're like, okay, either you come to the beach with us, or Andrew's taking the kids and I'm going out with you. Girls day.

[B]

Like, I think I also gave you. If you don't want to do any of those things.

[A]

Yeah, you did.

[B]

But it wasn't like I was like, get in the car.

[A]

Well, you kind of did, but it was what I. It was what I wanted and needed because I felt so alone and sad on that day. And not to be like, oh, I threw a pity party, but I was feeling all the feelings. And Landon had to work that day, and he felt horrible about it, but he didn't really have a choice. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna sit alone and be alone in every possible way. And you were the friend who was like, no, you're not. We're going thrifting. And it was so sweet, and it meant everything. So even something like that, hanging out with them, especially if they don't have, like, babies in their arms yet, like, making space for them, or at the very least, like, just sending them a message and letting them know, like, I see you, and whatever. It's very sweet.

[B]

So that was kind of our bullet points on.

[A]

That was one. We gotta move on. All right.

[B]

Topic number one was be there for them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Topic number two is what not to say.

[A]

Oh, this is.

[B]

This is juicy. This is really my favorite.

[A]

We're gonna try not to get too riled on this one.

[B]

I mean, it's. And if we just. It's all in good fun of. Of, like, we're. We're making light of, like, people being maybe unintentionally mean or idiotic.

[A]

But it's all out is meant. Well, it is It.

[B]

That's. I want to preface that.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's usually always tried to mean well, that. That grammar didn't come out correctly.

[A]

But let's just say good intentions do not always equal good reception.

[B]

Ooh.

[A]

Like, I understand.

[B]

Put that On a T shirt.

[A]

I understand you may mean well, but.

[B]

You don't do well.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[B]

So the first one.

[A]

What?

[B]

So what? Not to say. Let's go. First one. Anything. Anything. Quite literally, anything that begins with the phrase at least. No, I'm gonna stop you right there. I'm gonna stop you right there. I don't care what follows those two words. If you begin the sentence with at least, you're minimizing their pain, in my opinion. Yeah, you're not. The sentence that you're about to say could be true. They could have many blessings in their life. At least you live in a mansion.

[A]

Well, I don't think somebody would say that. I think somebody would say, well, at least you already have a precious baby. Or.

[B]

Or at least. I don't know.

[A]

What.

[B]

I don't actually. I don't know.

[A]

Very common.

[B]

At least you were only, like, nine weeks along.

[A]

Six weeks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

@ least, you know you can get pregnant. At least. Like, there's so many things which there's some validity to.

[B]

Yeah. Like, it's like. That's what I'm saying. It's like those sentences could be true.

[A]

There's some validity, but it's also minimizing. So minimizing. And it's infuriating. If you're the person who, you know, miscarried at six or seven weeks, you're like, yeah, but I still spent however many weeks you knew, like, pregnant, my body changing, feeling it, you know, all these emotions and excitement. Weeks, like, day after day, hour after hour, like, planning on meeting this little one, and it's ripped away. All of a sudden, you know, my body's going through all of this, and you're like, at least it could have been worse.

[B]

Like, no, sorry, Pam, get out of here. Yeah, with your. At least.

[A]

At least is a no go. Do not say that. Anything that goes along the lines of everything happens for a reason.

[B]

No, get out of here, Pam. Or with your Everything happens for a reason.

[A]

Or I'm gonna say this right now to the. To the Christians listening, the. It was God's will.

[B]

Nope. Again, I think every single one of those statements is minimizing.

[A]

It's intending to comfort by.

[B]

But it absolutely does not.

[A]

Do not. I'm sorry. Get out of here. With your God's will. Of that bs. I know. Which. That's actually goes to a theology.

[B]

I was gonna say. I don't think it's actually biblical to say that the death of a child is God's will.

[A]

But people. Yeah, people believe that theologically, we Don't.

[B]

Clearly I'm gonna rile some. I'm gonna rile my own feathers.

[A]

Ruffle. Anyways, whatever. Um. One of the biggest things, at least.

[B]

For me, I can tell we were sassy in writing these notes. I'm just reading that.

[A]

I'm just gonna literally read this. From what we scripted on our notes, we don't actually script it, but this one. We do not give unsolicited advice on what your second cousin twice removed did to have a baby. If you do not know the person personally, don't give advice when you do not know what they may or may not have already done.

[B]

I love that you went into like a I. Robot voice envy.

[A]

I. I literally, literally can't. I've had that happen to me. People being like when they're.

[B]

They're trying to like, so they're almost trying to. Again, I think that's coming from a place of helping.

[A]

They want to fix the problem for you. Right. But especially here's the thing, if it's coming firsthand from somebody like you yourself have gone through a loss or two or whatever, like a very similar story to the. The person you're talking to and you're like, hey, I just want you to know I know how much this sucks. And this is after, like you've. You process with them for a bit.

[B]

I think we're also going to talk about that and what to say.

[A]

Yeah. Like something that you could be like, hey, if you ever. To hear the answers that I received or like what helped me get through, I would love to share. I think that you're. Ever read.

[B]

It has to come from a person who has experienced it firsthand. Firsthand.

[A]

Do not talk to me. Do not try to connect with me.

[B]

About what your second cousin twice removed or learned about good friend. Or send me a blog post on like how somebody solved infertility. I don't. That's not. Again, it's.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's trying to immediately fix the problem versus holding space and being there in my pain.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

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[A]

Just do not try to empathize by sharing somebody else's story. Like, if you haven't experienced it yourself.

[B]

I guess that goes along the same lines of like, sending a blog post or saying like, I think my cousin experienced this.

[A]

I think it all t in, like, there's just a difference between, like, being like, I can't imagine, like, I am so sorry, and just being like, I don't get this. But I, I, I know this has got to be one of the worst things you've ever experienced versus being like, oh, my gosh, I know. I know what you're going through. No, you don't. Like, no, you don't. And that makes that, that, like, riles obviously depends on the person, but, like, it, it creates this sense of, like, I feel more disconnected from you. Even though you, to empathize, you're trying to connect with me, but you're you, you are like, pretending like you know and you, you don't. And it makes me feel like I don't know a certain way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Whereas, like, my friends who have come in and been like, I, I don't, I can't even imagine. I don't know what to say. And I might say the wrong thing because I haven't been through this, but, like, you know, whatever.

[B]

And that's more valuable to say that, though I, I think it comes down to this. There is a different way that you can handle a friend going through miscarriage based on if you have experienced that same thing or not. If you have not, don't try to fix, don't try to relate in any way. Just be there for them and go, Go back to point number one and all the things that we said with point. I feel like every single thing on point number one could apply if you have not experienced miscarriage or the same grief that they experienced.

[A]

With this kind of tying into, like, like, how to be there for them. This, this is kind of like, not debatable, but, like, there it's nuanced a little bit because we put on our list do not. One of the things not to say is like, what can I do for you? Or how can I show up?

[B]

Like, like, if your friend has just had a miscarriage. What we mean by don't. What not to say is don't text them. Being like, hey, how can I help? That's putting the burden on them in that moment.

[A]

What do you need to try to.

[B]

Decide they might not know what they.

[A]

Need just genuinely, if you've ever walked through any form of trauma or grief, like, if you're in the thick of it in that moment, like, grief has just hit, trauma has just occurred, whatever. If somebody's like, what do you need? You're like, I don't even know what day it is. I don't know how to possibly. I'm still trying to understand even the barest of what I'm feeling, let alone logically thinking through what I actually need from somebody else in this moment. So something like, within this example, like, just. Just do something for them.

[B]

Just, like, don't ask what they need to be done. Do it. Like, if you're like, okay, well, I want to make them dinner, but I don't know what they. Like, how would you phrase that? Like, I feel like, do we have an example?

[A]

I'm pretty sure we put that under, like, what to say.

[B]

Oh, just kidding. We'll get there then.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, we got there. But, like, can I bring you dinner sometime? Don't do it. It puts a burden on them in that moment.

[B]

In that moment. Well, what day?

[A]

And to have to respond and think through. It's just like, I just think, especially in the middle of them, like, freshly processing, that you don't need to ask them anything. Just.

[B]

I also feel like any question that you would maybe ask is. Is asking, like, either your preferences or food or coffee or the day.

[A]

I.

[B]

It's almost better even if you don't get the coffee order perfectly right. Even if you don't make the absolute favorite meal. I think showing up and just giving whatever to them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is better than burdening them with the question or of, like, when and what.

[A]

Or you could even think through, you know, hey, I don't know if they have food allergies or whatever. Jordache gift card.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Let them pick. And, you know, but. But it's there. It's done. They don't have to make a decision. They don't have to think.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, okay, this one's good. I put this in all caps on the. I put this in all caps on the list. This comes from personal experience. Please, please, for the love, don't compare my dead baby to your dog that passed some months ago. Just don't do it. Just don't do it. Just realize that this might be controversial. Maybe people don't agree with this statement. Animals do not hold the same weight as a human being. I'm gonna say it. Ruffled feathers, maybe. Maybe. I think.

[A]

Here's the thing coming from a person who genuinely has already wept many tears over the thought of my dog not being with me at some point. Like, my dog is.

[B]

Yeah, maybe you should speak to this. You actually have a dog you love, like, deeply love.

[A]

Like, deeply. Like, he is integral part of my life. He is with me by my side through everything. Like, he is one of my best friends. Like, literally, I've cried before thinking of him not being there. It is still. And I've experienced multiple of my childhood dogs who I was also very close with, passing. There is just. There is a different. There's. There's just different, like, emotions and feelings.

[B]

And obviously not to minimize the death of a pet. No.

[A]

Especially if, like, you're, like, there. That's a grief, too. That is like. Like horrible. And sometimes I feel like that's downplayed too much in its own. In its own category. Some people are like, oh, okay, your dog died. So what? No, that is. That is you. But that's also. That's also just your experience. Like, genuinely, your dog sometimes is like a best friend in your life. And now they're just gone. Like, I understand that. I've been through it. I. Like, that is completely its own category of grief and deserves, in my opinion, its own recognition of the loss.

[B]

But just understand the hierarchy of society.

[A]

Well, this is also just such a specific example. But, like, by. It's. It's. Again, it ties back to trying to.

[B]

Relate to something that you have not experienced.

[A]

Yes. It's like trying to relate one type of grief to another. Even though all of those griefs are valid in their own way, they are different in their own way. And it makes you feel.

[B]

I feel like it could be the same almost as if. If your friend lost their mom or dad and you even saying, like, I get what you're going through. I had a miscarriage, I would still. I would be like, what? It's just not the same.

[A]

It's just different. There's different layers. There's different nuances. There's different, like, elements of how you're feeling. The physical aspect of a miscarriage versus, like, you know, with a parent. You've literally known them your entire life. Like, there's just a different. It's different.

[B]

And it's not that those griefs aren't valid. It's just like, just. Just don't do it. Let's have some class and let's not compare our past animals to my baby who is no longer in my womb.

[A]

Okay, I'm gonna let you go off on this one, too, because you have A. I'm.

[B]

You have the same opinions.

[A]

I'm the same opinions. You're just.

[B]

It's. It's happened also to you more so.

[A]

I happened to me a lot.

[B]

I will be the advocate for Ms. Evelyn McLeod. For the love. So this is our last point on the what not to say category. For the love. Don't DM them asking when they're gonna get pregnant again or speculating. Speculating on pregnancy in any way. What the frick? This doesn'. Apply. Let me just say that we have now escaped out of the miscarriage situation. This is. Let's just not comment on women's bodies or the status of when they will or will not get pregnant ever. Let's just not do that. Let's not do that in person. Aunt Sharon at the family reunion. Let's not do that to the stranger on Instagram that you don't know. If you don't have their number in your phone, you do not get to text them or DM them. Well, you can't text them because you don't have their number on your phone. Don't DM them being like, oh, are you a pregnant suit? No.

[A]

Really? This is so specific. But I remember. Remember this. I was teasing some launch. It might have been Evie swim. Like, something like.

[B]

Like a long time ago.

[A]

A long time ago. This was like, right after lan and I had gotten married.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I had, like, posted an old photo, one that you took when Lane and I were first dating, like, years before. Okay. An old photo where we were, like, kissing or something. And I literally, like. It was just the. The photo.

[B]

Did they not realize it was old?

[A]

I don't know. It was literally just. I. I guess not. It was literally just a photo on my story being like, what. What's your guess? Or so. Like, something.

[B]

It was just a random heavy swim being the announcement.

[A]

Yeah, it was something like that. I don't remember fully if it was heavy sw. I was teasing a big launch that was happening or something business related or something that was exciting. And no clues whatsoever up to that point had been like, pregnancy whatsoever. Lan and I had just gotten married. It was a very old photo. Granted, somebody could have not known that, but whatever. This person does not just guess. You're pregnant. No. She screenshot my that photo and then outlined my belly in that photo and DM'd it to me and said, I see a little bump. You're pregnant.

[B]

No. No, ma'. Am.

[A]

No, ma'. Am. No, ma'. Am.

[B]

Fat shaming.

[A]

I was 19 years old, skinny as a Stick. I don't know what bump you were outlining, but do not just assume and have the guts to send me a DM saying I see a bump and outlining it. Like, like drew with the Instagram with a. Like a red. Like, she screenshot and then, you know, like on your apple, like with a red pencil.

[B]

Like, are you.

[A]

I was. We thing overall. So I guess, like, you could kind of be like, there's a tiny bit.

[B]

It was from the first shoot in 2017.

[A]

First shoot when you're literally.

[B]

You were a virgin.

[A]

Yep, literally. And I literally was like, this photo is three years old. Go.

[B]

No, that's.

[A]

She actually got kind of. I was very kind, but I was like, maybe don't do that. Kind of like, I was very, very.

[B]

Nice on the Internet.

[A]

I was very, very, very kind. I was not attacking. I was not like, that was incredibly rude.

[B]

I can't believe honestly, you had every.

[A]

Right to kind of feel kind. I was like, that's actually an old photo. Like, maybe Don.

[B]

Maybe don't speculate on women's bodies.

[A]

Thought she got incredibly offended and unfollowed me. I'm sorry.

[B]

Well, she doing good now.

[A]

I didn't mean to do anything, but whatever.

[B]

But let's. Okay, so just. Just to clarify and then we'll move on. Don't. Don't speculate on if people. Whether they're friend. You could even be friends with them or not. But especially if you don't know their personal life, don't speculate on the Internet and. And in any way about their body. You don't know.

[A]

But what do you mean not even. Like, sometimes it's not even about the body. Sometimes it's just simply like expecting. Like, like you're just. You're like eager and excited for them. Like, at least for me when I've experienced this because I've experienced this a lot. A lot of people. Because obviously we've like our journey to having kids has been multiple years long with like within that journey. Like, I posted once, like I was at a. A garden or something and I posted a photo from the back because it was like a backless dress and it was like, pretty and like the whatever somebody like, comments is like, oh my gosh, only showing your back. Are you pregnant?

[B]

That happen after you've clearly had a miscarriage?

[A]

Yes. And was very publicly like known and everything. And it. It's all from excitement and people are like wanting that for you. They're wanting. You know, and I recognize that. But there are moments when it hurts so Bad being like, I frickin wish. Like, please don't keep reminding me of what I don't have yet.

[B]

Well, that's where I go. Like, if you don't know them personally, you. You blindly sending that excitement to a stranger on the Internet. Because I feel like personal brands on the Internet and Instagram can make us feel like, like the strangers on the Internet are close friends, but they're actually really not. Yeah. In this parasocial dynamic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That we have. You forget if I don't have your number in my phone to know you intimately for all you know, stranger, like, they could be. They could have just had a miscarriage yesterday.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And your message of like, oh, only showing the back. Super excited. Like, you clearly have a bump coming. Like, that could be the biggest fuzz in that season.

[A]

Or like, it's, you just got another negative pregnancy test and you're walking through infertility after, like, miscarriages or what. You just don't know somebody's story. I think just the point is, like, even if you truly are, like, I've had people be like, I'm so sorry. I just, like, I wanted you to know I'm excited. I've been praying for you. You've been on my heart. And I'm like, thank you.

[B]

But let's not speculate.

[A]

But like, that's. Yeah, that's not your place. There have been moments I've opened a DM and it's been. I've already been feeling emotional that day about, like, my losses or, you know, not getting pregnant or whatever. And like, seeing somebody be, like, even not related to a photo, even just somebody being like, I'm just opening, you know, waiting every day for a pregnancy announcement from you. I'm like, yeah, me too. Effing. Me too. Like, and it just, it. It's like a dagger to the heart. So I just, I just don't do it. I just don't do it. No matter how much you feel like you know the person, don't speculate. Don't even tell them. I'm excited. I'm waiting for this. Like, me too.

[B]

Let's just not speculate. Yeah.

[A]

At all.

[B]

All right. We've harped enough on what not to say.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

What to say. Because we're not just going to be Debbie Downer. Like, don't say anything. Here's actually what to say. All right, we're going to go. I can't even imagine, especially if you.

[A]

Have not been through it, like, genuinely being like, I can't I.

[B]

Because you can't.

[A]

I don't understand what you're going through, but I just want you to know I'm here. And that's the second thing is, like, I'm here for you. Like, I am here. I'm willing to sit in this. I'm not going anywhere, and then actually.

[B]

Follow that up with action, in my opinion. Another one. I'm so sorry for your loss. Loss, or I'm just so sorry.

[A]

Yeah. And I will say with one thing, with this is especially like, if you share it in any, like, broad capacity, like on social media or like, you know, your. Your work office, co workers know, like, you're gonna get a lot of that. Specifically, like, I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm so sorry. And there does come an element where it feels like it just words, it just kind of almost feels a little bit meaningless because you just. That's all you hear on repeat for a few days and. But that does not mean that that's a bad thing to say. I just think if you can come up with something more personalized or creative, like actually take the time to be like. Like something I've done, when I've friends on Instagram or people that I followed have posted about a loss, I could just quickly comment, I'm so sorry for your loss. And I do mean that. But instead, I'll take the time and I'll sit there and I'll be like, if they said the name of the baby, it'd be like grieving with you, your precious little Charlie. You know, I just want you to know, like, you're not alone. Like, we care. You know, something that's just like, hey, I put a little more intention and thought into, like, what to say here. Again, I'm so sorry for your loss is a totally fine thing to say in my opinion, but it is a very common one.

[B]

If you only say just that and.

[A]

It can just start to get lost in the noise of like, I'm so sorry. It's like, okay, well, the.

[B]

The next one you kind of hit on, I'm praying for you. Bonus points if you actually write out exactly what you're praying for. I feel like she kind of covered that a little bit, especially if that's a text.

[A]

Like, if. If it's a text of like, hey, I'm praying for you. Like, and then some. Maybe a voice note, maybe not. Maybe that's too much. Maybe just typing out like. Like, God, I just ask right now in. In your name that you would, you know, bring peace that surpasses understanding, whatever that like writing it out is just like showcasing like, I'm actually praying for you. Prayer is really powerful.

[B]

I think the next one, the next one, like starting a text by saying, no need to text back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then, and then you could follow it with, with whatever because it almost is just like releasing the pressure. And, and sometimes I don't feel like you have to say that, but it's just kind of nice to let them know. I am not expecting a response from you in this moment.

[A]

I don't need anything from you, even a text back. And especially I will say with this one, especially like with my friends who have gone through it where I've consistently like, I will follow up daily through the first few weeks when and then.

[B]

It could feel like, oh crap, I, I, they've texted so many times, it.

[A]

Becomes like a burden. But like, whereas if I say every time, like, no need to respond. Just want you to know I was praying for X over you today. Yeah, I'm here, I love you. Like, and sending that repeatedly. No need to text back. No need to text back. And I've had friends who just like, like, or heart or don't respond at all. That's okay. I don't need anything from you. I'm not doing this to get a response. I don't need you to talk to me. I'm just here for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So simply saying, like, no need to text back is releases the pressure for them to respond.

[B]

I feel like you hit did on this next one earlier when we were talking about what not to say.

[A]

Yeah. If the relationship feels like close enough. Instead of giving like unsolicited advice without them asking, just being like, oh, here's what fixed it for me.

[B]

Because it like immediately, basically instead of immediately going into fix it mode.

[A]

Yeah. Which sometimes, like, I know my second loss. One of like our really good friends Jordan Dooley, who we've had on the show multiple times and she's had a whole journey with, with recurrent losses as well and you know, was able to find answers and had, you know, a living child, a full term pregnancy, like all of that. When I experienced my second loss, I texted her about it and was like, well, you know, this just happened, whatever. And she like sent a whole voice message back, like just grieving. I'm sorry, I'm processing, whatever. And then she sent another voice message, was like, hey, I know we have very similar personalities. I know you're not the person who's just going to be sitting here wallowing and like crying for days on end before you, like, can think. I know you're going to want to, like, you're going to want answers. I am here whenever. If you ever want to talk about, like, my journey.

[B]

She gave you the permission to be like, yes, I want that. She didn't just start dumping.

[A]

She didn't just start being like, here's what I did. Here's what you should do. Which would have still felt like, whoa, I didn't ask for that. But literally, I think it was the same day I was like, let's talk. But also, I feel like over this.

[B]

I feel like there's an element, depending on someone's personality that had she been like, here's what I did. I almost. I almost think coming from someone who you clearly have talked with and done life with in the past, who has been through three miscarriages, I almost think that that even comes from a more valid place than. Than somebody. Again, like we said in the do not. What to do. Sending a blog post.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because your Aunt Sharon experienced a miscarriage and you're trying to relate. Like, that's just where it's inappropriate.

[A]

Yeah. And. And in my. In my personal experience, like, walking with several friends, some of them a little bit closer, some of them not. I've, like, occasion, like, I've sent a message, like, you know, grieving, processing a few times. And then I've been like, hey, if you ever want to know, like, my journey or my story or like, whatever, I'm. I would love to share.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's simply like, I'm here. I don't know your history. I don't know your story. I don't know, you know so much. I'm not going to just give you this unsolicited advice without you asking. When you're grieving, I usually wait a bit, but then I'll also be like, it's an open door and an open invitation whenever I feel like that this.

[B]

Specific one only applies if you've experienced it also.

[A]

Yes. Especially here's the thing.

[B]

And found answers somewhat.

[A]

I was gonna say here's the thing. Cause even if you've experienced one miscarriage and then your next one, like, you've had, let's say, like, maybe your scenario. Not to downplay your scenario whatsoever. It's just a different story from mine of, like, you had.

[B]

I had a child and then I had a miscarriage and then I had two more childs.

[A]

Childs. But yeah, like, you had a slightly different, like, his story with it where if you.

[B]

I wouldn't have come up to you after your first or second and been like, hey, Evie, here's what I did.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I also didn't do anything. So like, I didn't do testing.

[A]

Right. And for me, like for somebody, I. Maybe this is something simply. If somebody has gone through multiple and you've also gone through multiple and you found answers, I think this might only apply there, maybe not. Because I wish it's nuanced in a.

[B]

Sense like that you had answers after.

[A]

I wish I had answer. More answers after the first one. And I was good friends with Jordan and talked with Jordan through that whole process too, and she offered me some answers, but I was just like, oh, the likelihood that this is just a random chromosomal thing was very high. You know, whatever. Right. But I would just be cautious with that one. Like, yeah, in general. What.

[B]

So we're, we're on what to say.

[A]

This was, this was the kind of a flip that we already talked about. Like, just do things. Don't ask what they want. Something simply like, hey, dinner is arriving tonight at 6. Even if they already have dinner plans, they can put that in the fridge and reheat it. Like I'm just do it.

[B]

Just show up for them a little like, note to this is something that, not that the husband is not also grieving in, but. But I. It is a little bit of a different experience than the. Obviously the woman. So something that I've done and, and can be helpful is like if, if for some reason you need details coordinated and you want to know like, what night specifically would be the best to bring dinner over. Text him. Yeah, like just, just to like not have to put again that burden on her.

[A]

Something I've also done with, with friends when they've been in the thick of like within the first few days of a loss is I've texted and said, hey, I am bringing you dinner one day this week. Here's what I'm planning. And I'll be like, I'm planning on bringing it Tuesday evening at 6pm unless you tell me differently. And I am planning on making either this dish or this dish. Tell me if you have a preference or if neither one of those sound good. Either way, if you don't say anything back, I. Dinner is coming on Tuesday with one of these dishes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it, it again gives them like an option to make a choice if they want to respond and say that one sounds better or, you know, actually Tuesday, we're gone entirely. Can you bring it by Wednesday? But it, it still alleviates that need for them to be the one calling all of the shots.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like you're giving them like two options.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And that's it.

[B]

Next one. I think this is most helpful if you generally have not experienced miscarriage or just whatever they've experienced, but acknowledge that you may or do say something hurtful.

[A]

May say or do something.

[B]

Yeah, say or do something hurtful and tell them that they can tell you if that was the wrong thing to say. Yeah. I think you have a specific example of this.

[A]

Yeah. Like, one of my really, really good friends who like walked through both of my losses with me both times was like, hey, like, genuinely, like she was there for me. She, she stuck with me through all of it, like, held space. But she said multiple times, like, I don't know if I, I don't know what to say. I could say something that is unintentionally hurtful to you and I want you to know it's unintentional. Please tell me if I hurt you. Please tell me to not say that again. Like, I want to know. I want to be able to understand how to love you better and how to love my other friends better. And it was, it was very humble of her to say. And it, she never said anything like.

[B]

Like addressing the awkwardness. It's like addressing like the thing that happens with grief, like we mentioned at the beginning of this podcast, where it's.

[A]

Like you don't know what to say.

[B]

Sometimes and it becomes weird and worry.

[A]

About saying the wrong thing so you pull away. And she was like, I'm not pulling away.

[B]

And she'd like addressed it head on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Of like, hey, I might be awkward and not say the right thing. And I just, I love how she worded that, that.

[A]

Okay, so this is like a little like synopsis, just kind of like some things that all tie in. I'm so sorry, I can't imagine what you're feeling right now. And I honestly don't have the words. But I care about you. I'm praying for you, I'm hurting for you and I love you. Feel free to use that copy paste that like that. Something like that shows intention and heart and like, I can't imagine, but I care. Like I'm hurting for you.

[B]

And then if you follow that up with continual check ins or sending them something again, even if you're far away, I think that's like the one of the perfect responses that you could do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right, now we're going to talk about a very specific circumstance where how to tell a friend that you're pregnant, when they've gone through loss. I feel like that kind of touches on this topic overall because it's nuanced and it's also kind of dealing. Even if their miscarriage didn't happen recently. Especially if it happened recently. But just how to navigate that where, like, you're excited, something amazing's happening for you, but you want to hold space and kind of, like, navigate the awkwardness.

[A]

Especially recognizing that that's something that they are wanting or waiting for. I would also say this applies very much if somebody's going through infertility. Yeah, very much so. So do not, and I repeat, do not. Do not. Do not say it. Tell them within a matter of days or even a few weeks of their loss. Maybe that's. Maybe that's my opinion. Maybe it depends on, like, how close you are and, like, what your relationship is like, and how much you see each other. If they're going to start seeing you bumping, whatever. But, like, if at all possible. Wait, shut your mouth.

[B]

Shut your mouth.

[A]

Like, wait. I, like, I had a friend do that for me. I. Multiple times. But, like, depending on which lesson, which friend. But sometimes I'm like, I wish she'd waited even longer than, like, three weeks because I was still. I was still in some of that. But I was so grateful that they had waited, like, three weeks to tell me.

[B]

You could. I would love to hear your nuance because the next one we put down is don't let them hear it from someone else. Which could almost be a little bit counteractive to what we just said of, like, wait to tell them. But. But ideally you don't want them to hear it from somebody else because then it's like a blow.

[A]

I think it just depends on, like, in my opinion, I think it just depends on the scenario, like, for the relationship. Yeah. Like, if. If it's somebody that's like, hey, I've told everybody else in our friend group that all hangs out together and does life together, you know, whatever. Except you, because I'm waiting to tell you. No, that's either you tell me first or, you know, privately, like, quickly. Especially if it's not, like, within a matter of weeks. I would. Would in this scenario personally, if, like, for example, I had a loss and the next day one of my best friends found out they were pregnant. I don't want to, like, tell people what to do, but part of me is like, maybe just keep that out of telling all of our friends. Right. For a few weeks if. But then I'm Also like, but I don't want to have to do that. I don't know. It's kind of nuanced because it's like.

[B]

I think at that point you could kindly say to the friends that you've told, if you. If they are all friends with the friend that had the miscarriage, like, hey, could you not tell Blank her? I would love to tell her in person or like, myself. Yeah. But there's still an element.

[A]

Like, maybe it's just me, but I'm like, if. If I. If everyone in the world knew for weeks before I found out.

[B]

Okay, well, which was it, though? Because on the first one, we said, wait, shut your mouth.

[A]

But I think it depends on the dynamic. Like. Like, for example, like, if you live long distance from them or your circles are slightly different, or, like, they're not gonna know you tell your family. But, like, your families aren't going to tell your friend. Like, it's almost like a different. And usually it's.

[B]

You mean if. If there's a circle of friends where you tell everybody else except the one person that's experienced miscarriage. Yeah, that's where, even if it's fresh, you would still tell them?

[A]

I think I would. At least for me. This is obviously, like, my thought. I think I would prefer. If you're gonna tell everyone else, just tell me one on one, which we kind of get to. But, like, just tell me. And it may hurt like a B otch. But I would almost rather that than to feel like you're walking on eggshells and, like, excluding me when I already feel like I'm the odd man out right now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like I will feel even more left out of everything. Because you're, like, treating them and you.

[B]

Think that's worse than telling them immediately after they've experienced it.

[A]

I. I think so.

[B]

That's hard because I think it could go either way.

[A]

It's so nuanced. I think it depends on the person. But that's where I'm like, if it's possible to maybe tell, like, your family and wait to tell your friends for, like, two weeks, give that friend two weeks to grieve.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then I'm like, but you want to celebrate your life as well, and it is a life. No. You know, how early, whatever. I don't know. It's very nuanced.

[B]

And I also think there isn't a right or wrong situation in this. To a point.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think that the next point that we have is. Is pertinent, especially to this point. Tell Them privately. Don't do it in a group. So take that friend group. Don't announce it to all of your friends, the one that's had a miscarriage included.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she hears it for the first time, like, and she has setting where.

[A]

She has to react positively in a way, publicly. Yeah. Everyone else is there, everyone's casting side eyes at her, trying to see how she's going to respond or she has to do something, which this kind of tells in like two, like, like the next point of depending on the friendship, depending on, you know, so many layers of things. A lot of times one of the best ways, in my opinion, to tell somebody who's been through a loss, like a friend or a family member, is to tell them in a way that they have their space to react to, feel they don't have to.

[B]

Privately.

[A]

Yeah. Like send them a text.

[B]

Not face to face.

[A]

Yeah, send them a text or write a letter. I think writing a letter, like handwritten and leaving it if you can, leaving it at their doorstep if you're like in the same vicinity, or just mailing.

[B]

It if you don't live.

[A]

Yeah, mailing it. It shows the intention of like, it's, I would say, a step above a text in the sense that, like, I am handwriting a letter to you, but I am giving you the space to receive this news and process it without needing to react for me or to feel a certain way for me. Yeah, I think that's amazing. So the same thing with like responding, doing, not doing it at group. I would also say depending on your friendship, you may also just not want to do it face to face at all.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To give them space, depending on how recent it was, how many losses they've had, how traumatic their loss was, which all of them are traumatic. But like, you know, I would just say read the room and maybe you want to tell them in a space where they have the ability to like, curse and sob for a bit before feeling excited for you.

[B]

You know, the next two things are texts, ideas. So, like, you could easily translate this text into a letter if you, if you wanted to do that. But there's kind of like two different versions of it. But saying something like, hi, friend, I have some news. I'd like to with you, but wanted to give you some space to process and feel every valid feeling. I just wanted to share that I'm pregnant and I know this may be super hard to hear and I want you to know that your feelings are valid and I don't expect a response or a congratulations of Any sort. I just wanted you to know so that you're not in the dark or something like that. So that's like one way to say it where you like almost just say it in the first either text or letter. Something else you could say, like a variation of that is kind of hinting at it, which is like, I have some news I'd like to share with you whenever you feel ready to hear it. I can text or we can grab coffee or a phone call soon. That one. It, it, like it's, it's kind of hinting at it.

[A]

It's very clear. Typically also depending on like, you know, what they know of you being like, I have some news I'd like to share when you're ready to hear it. But it gives them the option of.

[B]

Like, I don't want to see the.

[A]

Words not opening a text. Or especially I would say over text, like opening a text and seeing I am pregnant. Like, sometimes that just feels like a big middle finger when you're, you know, depending on where you're at in your grief journey. So being able to have the option to almost. It's like a stepping stone to mentally prepare yourself. Like, you know it, you, you feel it and you. All those emotions will hit, but you're, you're able to gird yourself a little bit more to be like, I would love to hear, let me know. And then you're prepared to see those words on the screen, you know, so it's, it's again, nuanced. And it depends so much on the friend and the friendship. And at the end of the day, if you are putting an effort to show that you care and are willing to be there with them through all their feelings and all their grief and all their process, I think that's just what matters 100%.

[B]

I think those were all our points kind of wrapping up in everything that we said. I think the biggest thing to kind of like really understand on the appropriateness of what to say and do when a friend goes through a miscarriage is have awareness, bro, like be socially and self aware. Have you experienced it or have you not? That's the first question to ask yourself. And if you have experienced it, there are things that you can say and do that I, that you, you are allowed to a little bit more than if you haven't, if you haven't received differently. Yeah, it's definitely received different.

[A]

I will also say, not to give more nuance to this very nuanced topic, but there is also an element to. Of, of a different Feeling or a different. Again, completely both valid grief and trauma. But friends who have had like five kids before having one loss.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Versus the friends who have not who've had five losses before having one kid. There's slight difference.

[B]

Well, that's where I think self awareness of. Of not only the circumstances of if you have or have it and it. The circumstances within that, but also the relationship.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

If you are like best friends with someone, I think you can say things in a certain way that Aunt Sharon cannot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like just have freaking self awareness.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Don't be an idiot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like we gave you lots of ways to not be an idiot.

[A]

The biggest thing is just show up. Even if you do it messily. Messily.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In a messy way. Even if you are imperfect, even if you accidentally overstep with a friend. Like I would rather a friend overstep with me by being there too much.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Than for a friend to just not show up at all. And I feel abandoned and alone because it's very lonely. Going through a miscarriage is very lonely. So hopefully that helped. Honestly, this. The point of this was to give just like our experiences and the things that we've learned as friends and as women having gone through losses. Because unfortunately this is a very common thing that you probably either experienced.

[B]

It is this statistic.

[A]

Yeah. Like you've either experienced it yourself or you know someone or you probably will know a friend at some point. You know, like it's one of those things that I think as women especially is incredible to be like, I don't know, girded with information to have. Yeah. Knowledge and insight. And hopefully we gave you something to chew on.

[B]

Feel like we gave you lots to chew on. We gave you lots to say and do or not say and do, depending on your relationship to the person. Depending on your circumstances of what you've experienced versus not experienced. This was meaty. Send this to a friend.

[A]

I was going to say, please share this.

[B]

Share this. I feel like this is going to be a resource when anybody. I feel like lots of people ask me, hey, I know you've experienced this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My friend just experienced this. What do I say or do you. You gonna refer back to? I'm glad we put this in a podcast episode. This is a resource forevermore.

[A]

Yeah. All right, friend. Well, we love you and we will see you on the next episode.