448: The Power of Saying No - Setting Boundaries for Sustainable Success

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Heart & Hustle Podcast

Episode 448: The Power of Saying No – Setting Boundaries for Sustainable Success
Hosts: Evie McLeod & Lindsay Roman
Date: September 2, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Evie and Lindsay explore the essential skill of saying "no" as creative entrepreneurs. They unpack why it's so difficult to set boundaries, discuss the dangers of always being a "yes person," and share practical frameworks, questions, and example scripts to empower listeners to protect their time, energy, and mental health for long-term business and personal success. The conversation is candid, supportive, and laced with personal anecdotes, making it highly relatable for listeners struggling with overcommitment and people-pleasing in business.

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Main Discussion Points & Key Insights

1. The “Yes Man” Trap in Entrepreneurship

• Beginnings:
  • Early-stage entrepreneurs often feel they must say yes to every opportunity.
  • Example: Photographers accepting a variety of gigs to find their niche and build reputation.
  • Quote (Lindsay, 03:08): "Almost be like the Jim Carrey Yes Man of like, yes, yes, yes... because you're trying to, like, almost grow and stretch and outreach in business."
• Growth Stages:
  • As business grows, always saying yes becomes unsustainable and harmful.
  • Quote (Lindsay, 04:24): "If you have that yes man mentality as you grow, there becomes a point where that will then be very detrimental to your business."

2. Why Is It Hard to Say No?

• People-Pleasing:
  • Fear of offending or appearing unkind.
  • Quote (Lindsay, 05:05): "Because you don't want to offend people... you don't want to seem like you're stuck up and full of yourself."
• FOMO (Fear of Missing Out):
  • Desire to not miss prestigious opportunities or connections, even if unpaid.
  • Personal story: Evie turned down an unpaid invitation to photograph New York Fashion Week (07:00–09:22).
  • Quote (Evie, 09:07): "At the end of the day, it was my FOMO speaking."
• Hustle Culture Conditioning:
  • Internalized belief that saying no equals failure.
  • Quote (Lindsay, 09:57): "The conditioning of your brain can go so far as to basically say, if I say no to anything, I will fail."
• Identity Attachment:
  • Equating busyness with self-worth and success.
  • Quote (Evie, 11:03): "I do sometimes struggle with comparing myself with my past self... I make the same amount of money now and I work way less..."

3. How to Know When to Say No

• Key Reflective Questions:
  • Is this aligned with my bigger vision and goals?
  • Does this energize me or drain me?
  • Is this the best use of my time right now?
  • Am I saying yes out of fear, guilt, or obligation?
• Warning Signs:
  • An immediate pit in your stomach when asked.
  • Feeling resentment before the event/project even starts.
  • Having to compromise on well-being or highest priorities.
  • Quote (Evie, 18:00): "If there's an immediate pit in your stomach... that is your sign. That's a hell no."

4. Real-Life Examples of “Should Have Said No”

• Discounted Wedding Client (Lindsay’s story, 22:15–26:36):
  • Gave a discount out of fear and FOMO, resulted in regret and lack of fulfillment.
  • Quote (Lindsay, 25:13): "I could have done the wedding, sure. But... the yes that I shouldn't have given was to the discount."

5. Benefits of Saying No

• Creates space for the RIGHT opportunities
  • Every yes is a no to something else (Evie, 27:14–27:39).
• Protects energy, time, and mental health
• Increases respect from others
  • Firm boundaries foster professional respect with clients, colleagues, and team.
  • Quote (Lindsay, 29:49): "If you set a healthy boundary... I would be more respectful of you as a business owner."
• Models healthy behavior
  • For peers, clients, team, family, and industry.

6. How to Say No: Scripts and Tips

• Simple and Polite Scripts:
  • “Thank you so much for thinking of me, but I'm not able to commit right now.”
  • “I appreciate the opportunity, but it's not the right fit for me at this time.”
  • “I'm so honored you thought of me for this project. I've thought long and hard about this, and... I don't have capacity for more right now...”
  • “I wish I had the capacity for this right now, but unfortunately with my current workload I wouldn't be able to give 100%.”
• Link to free PDF download of scripts shared in the show notes.
• Practical Tips:
  • Practice saying no on small things to build the “no muscle.”
  • If unsure, delay response (“Let me check my calendar and get back to you”)—but don’t use this to avoid an obvious no.
  • Be clear and honest—avoid misleading with “not right now” if it’s really a “never.”
  • Reframe: Saying no is not rejecting a person, but honoring your own commitments and values.
  • Quote (Lindsay, 37:11): "You are not rejecting a human being. You are purely prioritizing a season of your life..."

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Evie’s NYFW Story (06:56–09:22):
  • Honest discussion about feelings of FOMO and the struggle with unpaid but prestigious opportunities.
• Resentment Example (24:11):
  • Lindsay’s vulnerability about feeling regret and resentment after agreeing to a discounted job.
• On Boundaries and Respect (29:49–30:41):
  • How firm boundaries increase client respect and perceived professionalism.
• On Comparing to “Past Self” (11:03–11:58):
  • Evie reflects on success not being tied to relentless busyness.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–04:24 – Introductions; the “Yes Man” entrepreneur phase
• 04:33–12:30 – Psychology of why we struggle to say no
• 12:30–19:31 – Framework: How to know when to say no (reflective questions and warning signs)
• 22:15–26:36 – Lindsay’s regret over saying yes (and the power of saying no)
• 26:40–34:38 – Benefits of saying no; making space, protecting energy, modeling boundaries
• 31:03–34:38 – Sample scripts and how to say no confidently (plus freebie PDF mention)
• 34:38–39:22 – Practical tips for building your “no,” avoiding delayed rejections, reframing
• 39:22–end – Final encouragement, reflecting on your current commitments, and actionable next steps

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Action Steps for Listeners

• Download the free scripts PDF from the show notes for templates tailored to common business scenarios.
• Reflect: Take five minutes to identify any current commitments you wish you could say no to and analyze what’s stopping you.
• Practice: Try saying no in small, low-stakes situations to build confidence.
• Reframe: Remember that saying no is about honoring your commitments and protecting your well-being—not rejecting others.

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If you’re feeling stretched thin, overwhelmed by requests, or burned out, this episode is a reassuring, practical guide to regaining control of your time and building a healthier, more sustainable business—and life.

Transcript

[Evie McLeod]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are your hosts, Evie McLeod and Lindsay Roman. Welcome back to another episode, friend. We're so excited every time you join in and every time we get to just come here and chat. Life and business and all the things. Today is going to be a really fun one. We are talking about the power of saying no. We're going to dive into a lot of the logistics of when to say no, how to know, you know, the timing when it's yes or no, why we often say yes to things that we shouldn't. We're going to give you some samples, sample scripts. There's actually going to be a freebie too in this episode with even more sample ways to say no. And hopefully it's just going to encourage you as a business owner of why to set boundaries, where to set boundaries and how that can actually a no could lead to a bigger yes ultimately in your business. So we're going to dive right on in, pull out the notebook and let's go. Ever stop your scroll on Instagram and wonder how the heck photographers snagged those wildly candid moments of their clients? And you know, the kind of photographs that make you just sit in awe of how stunning they are and the emotions that you feel from them. We have felt that too. And when we first started out as photographers, our number one goal was to make sure our clients were comfortable and feeling like their true authentic selves. And one of the easiest ways we were able to achieve that was through creative posing prompts.

[Lindsay Roman]

Because here's the truth. If you want to achieve those effortlessly candid, playful and intimate photos, you have to create an environment that allows your couples to feel comfortable to do so. And we are spilling all the tea with some of our favorite directions and prompts in our free photography posing guide. Visit theheartuniversity.comcandid to get your hands on this incredible freebie. Prepare to have your clients rave about how much fun they had with you on their session. Hey hey. I'm Lindsay Roman.

[Evie McLeod]

And I'm Evie McLeod and we are family and legacy focused serial entrepreneurs and the founders of the Heart University, a business education company with a mission to help you thrive in your business and life.

[Lindsay Roman]

Welcome to our Entrepreneur Cocktail hour where business and marketing strategies meet faith, real talk and raw in life changing conversations.

[Evie McLeod]

At the end of the day, we are all in this together, figuring out how to navigate the ups and downs, the messy and the beautiful and everything in between. This is a community where you can come as you are, get Inspired and walk away equipped to build a legacy filled life.

[Lindsay Roman]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. Evelyn Lindsey. Hello.

[Evie McLeod]

Hello.

[Lindsay Roman]

How are you here on this fine. This fine Wednesday. Wednesday.

[Evie McLeod]

I'm lovely.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. I'm excited for this episode because I think there is a culture in the entrepreneurship industry when you first get started where you almost want to say yes to everything, or you maybe should in the sense that, like, if you're struggling for business or if you're wanting to get more opportunities and they're not coming to you, when they do come to you, you kind of want to say yes to everything.

[Evie McLeod]

Totally.

[Lindsay Roman]

And, like, almost be like the Jim Carrey. Yes. Man of like, yes, yes, yes. I'm going to do it. I'm going to, like. Yeah, because you're trying to, like, almost grow and stretch and outreach in business.

[Evie McLeod]

And I think there's times, places, and there is a season for a lot of entrepreneurs where that's actually one of the best things you can do for yourself in your business.

[Lindsay Roman]

Because if I think if you say no too much in the beginning, you almost shoot yourself in the foot.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Again, it depends so much on the season you're in and, like, you know, different things. But, yeah, I think in general, if you have really, really, really firm boundaries when you're still trying to figure out certain things or get your foot in the door on certain things, like, you have to have a little bit more flexibility when you're building something from the ground up. And that doesn't mean that you have to, like, be working, burning the candle at all ends, working all hours in the night. Like, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, like, practical example. If you're a photographer and you're trying to figure out what niche of photography you like, you might want to be saying yes to the senior shoot and the family shoot and to figure out. To figure out what you like and.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, get your name out there.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. And, like, build. You know, you're like, hey, I'm just trying to make a buck right now. I'm trying to shoot anything that wants to hire me, you know, like. But then as your business progresses, typically you, it becomes more and more important that you start saying no to things.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, it's like, if you have that yes man mentality as you grow, there becomes a point where that will then be very detrimental to your business.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. It can wreck you long term. It can actually significantly damage you long term. So today we're going to talk about saying no, and we're going to talk about the first section that I kind of want to, like, cover, like, just the basis foundation is why do we struggle to say no? Because I think that's like, the psychological side of things.

[Lindsay Roman]

It's like, what makes us want to say no or, or what do you mean, no?

[Evie McLeod]

What makes us, like, struggle with it?

[Lindsay Roman]

Because I think. Okay, yes.

[Evie McLeod]

I think a lot of us would be like, hey, saying no is kind of hard.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, because you don't want to offend people. Here, let me just back up. Okay. Well, the first reason of why people say no is, is people pleasing tendencies, which I feel like could be that fear of offending. Fear of, like, you don't want to rub someone the wrong way. You don't want to seem like you're stuck up and full of yourself.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Which I think all of that kind of revolves around caring too much what people think.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. It's.

[Lindsay Roman]

Which. That could be an entire episode.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. And there's again, there's an element that you want to be kind and courteous in your business and like, you know, whatever. But there's also, like, if somebody asks you for something and you feel like you cannot say no, even though you want to say no at the.

[Lindsay Roman]

I feel like at that point in time, if you're saying yes, but in your heart of hearts, you know it's a no, you're wasting their time.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Because you're not showing up as your best self to whatever it was you said yes to. And also there's going to be bitterness and resentment. So you're wasting their time. You're wasting your time because now you could have been spending that time doing something more valuable for your life and business. And so people pleasing tendencies, I feel like, is a. Is a big one for why people struggle to say no.

[Evie McLeod]

I think the next one would be fomo. Like, let's all just be real. Like, that fear of missing out the fomo.

[Lindsay Roman]

Especially if it's like an opportunity that you get.

[Evie McLeod]

Oh, can I share something?

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, I would love you to share something.

[Evie McLeod]

I don't know if you got this too.

[Lindsay Roman]

I don't know.

[Evie McLeod]

An email invitation last fall, like late fall, to photograph at New York Fashion Week.

[Lindsay Roman]

I'm offended I didn't get that opportunity. Oh, okay, well, wait, but, like, by, like, was it a scam?

[Evie McLeod]

No, it was legit. It was a legit, like, it was a legit thing. I really looked into it. Like, I actually, like, asked for follow up, like, clarification on things.

[Lindsay Roman]

I have a question, though, just sidebar. What, like, Photographing a Runway. Photographing. That's so interesting. Yeah, that's like. I don't even know how I would do that.

[Evie McLeod]

I know.

[Lindsay Roman]

It's such a different.

[Evie McLeod]

It just sounded. There was an element when I got it that I was like, wait, wait.

[Lindsay Roman]

Do they pay for your travel?

[Evie McLeod]

No, that was the problem.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh.

[Evie McLeod]

So it was one of those things, but it was like a cool opportunity.

[Lindsay Roman]

Gonna pay you?

[Evie McLeod]

No.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, okay.

[Evie McLeod]

So that was the thing. It was. It was technically, like, I was. I was invited to come to photograph. I clarified if it was paid, and they were like, no, wait, I'm so sorry. They had big. They had a. It was a big fashion company with a big fashion show, and they had a big social media, and they were like, we'll put your. Like, you. You'll be credited on like, whatever they're most.

[Lindsay Roman]

Still. So I don't like this though, because then they're just getting free labor.

[Evie McLeod]

But there was an element that I was like, okay, but. But I'm trying, like, I'm getting into, like, the luxury wedding world.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right, Right.

[Evie McLeod]

There could be an element that it could be really cool to be like, as seen in or like, you know, New York Fashion Week or like, just different things that I was like, the reputation, the opportunity to connect with some of these high end designers and, like, who knows who I'd run into at New York Fashion Week. Like, I'm able to go into this show as like a, you know, vip, like, whatever. There was just something that, like, I was like, this could. And I love New York. And I was like, this could be fun. So I really considered it. And I looked at all the, you know, opportunities and options and different things because I had, like, fomo. I was like, this actually, like, I think this could be really fun. And even though I'm not, like, paid, but, like, I don't. There's just something like, this sounded.

[Lindsay Roman]

It would be a great opportunity for life.

[Evie McLeod]

It just sounded interesting. But I had to kind of check myself and be like, realistically in this season with all the stuff on my plate with, you know, like a pregnancy and like, just all these different things, and I'm unpaid. I'm going to have to pay out of pocket to go to this event. Like, just a lot of stuff that I was like, you know what this is? This is a no. Even though there's this fomo and it's like, I think it could be cool and in a different season, it could be awesome. It was one of those things that ultimately I realized I was wanting to do it because it sounded exciting and I didn't want to miss out on a really cool opportunity or, like, prestige in, like, I photographed at New York Fashion Week. I was invited, like, to be. You know, there's still, like, a way you could, like, be like, I was so cool.

[Lindsay Roman]

I was free, unpaid, and worked for.

[Evie McLeod]

Free for them, but I got an invite. You know, it's one of those things that I was like, at the end of the day, it was my FOMO speaking.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

And I had to kind of recognize that and be like, yes, this is cool. In another season, at another time, I might jump on this. But I don't even know if this would pay off. And nothing lined up. It wasn't like Lane and I were planning a trip and we could combine it. You know, it just. It was fomo.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

So I had to kind of be like, okay, this is a no.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. So we have people pleasing. We have fomo. I think the third reason would be hustle, culture, conditioning in this, in the sense. And what I mean by that is, like, we kind of said this at the beginning, like. Like, we're told to, like, take life by the horns and go after your business. And, like, if you're an entrepreneur. Yeah. You have to grind. You have to do all. Like, you have to be a risk taker. And obviously there's elements of truth to all of that.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, you. You do have to have gumption as an entrepreneur. You do have to, like, knock down doors and make opportunities happen for yourself. 100.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

But I think that that conditioning of your brain can go so far to, like, condition you to basically say, if I say no to anything, I will fail.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Will no longer be successful. Which I think that lie can permeate and cause us to also say yes when we should say no.

[Evie McLeod]

Did you hear that, friend? That's a lie. No, no. The last one I would say is identity attachment. Like, which I personally have dealt with this over the years. Okay. I think you have, too.

[Lindsay Roman]

Wait, please unpack that.

[Evie McLeod]

I would love.

[Lindsay Roman]

It's therapy hour.

[Evie McLeod]

Feeling of being busy equals I'm successful. Oh. Like, if I pack my.

[Lindsay Roman]

Even if your bank account is not equaling it.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. I mean, obviously that's a whole other thing too. But it's this, like. It's kind of this thought of, like, I have to be working a lot in order to be more successful. Actually, this is something that ironically, I think is going to be posted today or tomorrow at the time of this recording, where I'm talking about comparing myself to My past self. This is a whole, like, almost like a sidebar. But one of the things that I've struggled with in that area of, like, I don't really struggle with comparing myself with others, but I do sometimes struggle with comparing myself with my past self.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, for sure. Same.

[Evie McLeod]

And the area that I notice I will sometimes feel the most, like, I tend to compare myself to this version of Evie the most. Is my first, like, few years of business when I was hustling and I was super busy and I was working like, you know, 18 hour days, six to seven days a week. And I was like, on the road 24 7, and I was like editing in the back of an Uber. And like, you know, it was like it was a grind.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

And I'll sometimes look back and be like, man, that was. She worked so hard. She did, you know, whatever. And I look at it as like, I was more successful. But then I'll actually sit down and I'll assess and I'll be like, I make the same amount of money as she did. Like, I make more money. Or like, you know, when I actually, like, sit down and I'm like, I work two to three days a week now and I make the exact same equivalent and I work way less. And so it's like. But it's this feeling.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's the vision of success I actually want.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. But it's this feeling of like, busy equals successful.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Like, the more I do, the more successful I am.

[Lindsay Roman]

So I have to say yes to every opportunity.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. I think that's like. I think that is one thing that a lot of us feel with, like, feel and struggle with when it comes to saying no is like, if I have too much space, I feel like I'm not doing enough.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

If that makes sense.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's. That needs to be unpacked for everyone that feels that in therapy, maybe.

[Evie McLeod]

I love it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes. Yes to that. Yes to that.

[Evie McLeod]

I love it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Um, okay. So that's kind of why we struggle to say no. I'm sure there's more, but those are the ones that we came up with.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Next we're going to talk about how to know when to say no.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And almost like the questions to ask yourself in, like when you're presented an opportunity or you get an email or you get a request of some sort and you're at war within yourself on whether you should say yes or no, these are the questions to ask yourself. So first, is this aligned with my bigger vision and goals? I think that's really important. Because sometimes, again, for all those reasons we just listed, we'll feel inclined to say yes. When really ultimately does it match up with the direction I'm going, the goals I'm wanting to set, the lifestyle and business I want to live and own and all of those things? Um, you can also ask yourself, does this energize me or drain me? I think a lot of times, again, we'll, we'll feel the call to say yes when ultimately it's going to drain you. And not that there's, there's good work that you can still do that could be draining. Like, yeah, let's say a wedding day is draining.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

But that's like, you know, that's what we do and that's what we love. But it's like there's, there's an element of, of draining or just like bone weariness that like, I don't know, I, I'm trying to think of an example.

[Evie McLeod]

You just know it's not aligned. Like, there's something that you're like, I.

[Lindsay Roman]

I truly feels like a chore. Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

But I want to be cautious in saying that simply because I think we can hit seasons of burnout or just like low inspiration or motivation in something that we're doing.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

And I don't want to encourage people, like, if it feels hard, jump ship, like you should be saying no to it because it might just be a season where you're like, hey, you over committed yourself, have to push through and you have to set up better boundaries next time. And like, you know, you have to.

[Lindsay Roman]

Follow through on the commitment that you made.

[Evie McLeod]

Or it's one of those things. Like I've, you know, I've coached with students where I see them, they've built a really successful business, but it suddenly feels boring and they want to completely jump ship into something totally different.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

And usually I'm the like kind of the person where I assess this depending on where they're at. And I'll be like, I would at least continue, like, try to get this to like a self sufficient, steady place or, you know, something pull back, scale back, but keep it going a bit so you have income or like a backup plan if plan B doesn't work. Different things like that. So I don't want to be like, if it feels boring or hard, jump ship or like, say no to cut it out entirely. But at the same time there is a difference. Like, you'll notice, like, when we chose to downshift the heart, it was like a year and a half, two years where we both consistently were, like, something's not working, something's not aligned. It's like there's, it felt.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, I, I, I feel like the, the question of, like, it. Does this energize me or drain me? I like the word energize and drain because it really, I think, depicts.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like an ideal world. Again, there are energized. Doesn't mean it's not hard, but.

[Evie McLeod]

And it doesn't mean that if you're in a really hard season, like the thick of busy season, or you can just abandon everything. Or that. Yeah. Or that you hit burnout and you fully acknowledge, like, you recognize, like, oh, I am burnt out. And so nothing feels energizing because I just am like, I'm absolute rock bottom zero, like on everything. I would just kind of be cautious with like, energize and drain in that. And you feel like I'm burnt out. Let's be real. Everything straining me.

[Lindsay Roman]

But also, I would say if you're burnt out, you should be saying no to way more things. So the same, the same question totally could be presented to you in two different seasons, and in one season it could energize you, and in another season it could drain you. And that could be a parameter of if you say yes or no.

[Evie McLeod]

That's true. I guess I was thinking more of like, if they're looking at their job as a whole. Oh, you know what I mean? Like, if they're like, does this energize or drain me? And they're like, it drains me. I, I quit in the trash. I'm like, okay, you might just be burnt out and need to work on that.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

You know, maybe don't throw it in the trash yet.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. Two other questions to ask yourself if you are wanting to or thinking about saying no. Is, is this the best use of my time right now? And again, I think that's where it could be. The same opportunity in different seasons of your life. And in one oper, like in maybe your hustle, like startup season.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

It is a great use of your time because you're trying to network, you're trying to expand. Maybe then five years down the road, you get that same opportunity and, and you're fully booked. You, you've networked all that you can, not all that you can, but, like, you're in a good place in your business.

[Evie McLeod]

I literally. It's funny that you're saying this because I'm like, if New York Fashion Week opportunity had come along to Every. In like 2018, 2019. I probably would have done it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Now, it was one of those things that I'm like, oh, it sounds fun.

[Lindsay Roman]

No, you're like, I got things to do.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. It was one of those things that I was like, it's not. It's not the best use of my time right now. And I fully recognize that.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah. And then the last question is, am I saying yes out of fear, guilt, or obligation?

[Evie McLeod]

That's good.

[Lindsay Roman]

Fear, guilt, or obligation. If. If the answer is yes to any of those, like I'm feeling obligated to. Well, I guess that's one of them. Sorry. Or am I saying yes? Or am I wanting or feeling the pull to say yes because I'm fearful of something? I feel obligated for some reason, or I feel guilty.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Again, I think that all goes back to why we struggle to say no with FOMO and people pleasing and all the things.

[Evie McLeod]

One of the things I will say with this sign, kind of like some signs that it's time to say no. We kind of touched on this a little bit. But, like, if there's an immediate pit in your stomach when you get the ask, like when somebody asks you if you will do something or help them or take this opportunity or client or whatever, if there's an immediate pit in your stomach, friend, that is your sign. That is a. That is a hell, no. That is immediately like, no, no, no. Say not. Yes. Not the time you feel resentment before it even happens. That's a big one.

[Lindsay Roman]

Wait, like before. Before it. Before you say before.

[Evie McLeod]

No, before. Like somebody's asked you and you're, like, dreading it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Sorry. This is the worst time to have hiccups. Wow.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Like, you've said yes, I guess. And then the event or the opportunity or whatever has not even unfolded and you're resentment or. Yeah, yeah. And then the last one is you're compromising your own well being, your family or your highest priorities, which this all. That's so powerful. And I think that ties in to. You have to kind of identify your highest priorities, especially if you're currently struggling with saying no with boundaries. I would really encourage, really try to sit down and assess where your. Your revenue is being most generated in your business. Like where your time is being the most productive in your business, moving the needle, generating the most revenue, or where your other priorities are in this season, for example, family, friends, moving like, I don't care, whatever it is. And then when opportunities come along in that season, you can really assess, like, will saying yes to this compromise my biggest priorities My highest priorities right now, my well being, my family, my time off, my, you know, whatever it is. I think that's important in being able to say no. You have to understand your highest priorities at some degree.

[Lindsay Roman]

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[Evie McLeod]

Introducing the solution to all of your website struggles. The Heart Shop website templates. Now, we spent hours designing these customizable, professional and conversion intense website templates with our incredible designer, Sarah Crook of Elizabeth Designs. They are so, so incredibly easy to use and customize with Showit's user friendly interface. Yes, by the way, you can easily learn how to work with Showit even if you've never touched a website or any design platform before. And you can change literally anything you want. No more being limited to squares on your website. It's a drag and drop system that is frickin easy and looks incredible. Oh, oh, you want more information? Cool. I got you. The templates come already. SEO optimized with copy prompts from Lindsay and I included. Yeah, you don't just get nonsensical filler text. You get bomb education and prompts from Lindsay and I to help you wow your potential clients and crush your website copy. And we designed a variety of these in different styles so you can find the closest match and then tweak it to make it fully your own.

[Lindsay Roman]

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[Evie McLeod]

Our courses are packed full of tools, formulas, strategies, and resources to help you kick freaking butt in biz. Whether you choose the photo major, a complete course for photographers, or the content photo Minor, a mini course on how to finally slay your content photos for your blog, insta, headshots, whatever, you will walk away with more knowledge than you ever thought possible. And here's the reality. We are here to see you succeed always and forever. And that is why we created each and every one of these courses.

[Lindsay Roman]

To check them out for yourself, read the reviews and look at each course syllabus. Go to TheHeartUniversity.com courses. That's TheHeartUniversity.com courses. I have an example for that of like a time that I didn't say or I said yes, and I, like, semi regretted it later. And it was saying yes to a discount for a wedding. And I remember bookings were a little bit down, but I was years into my business and so I was like, I don't need to say. Like, I'm not, I don't discount. Like, that's not who I am. I was like, on that pedestal. But because bookings were down, I remember they inquired and then they asked for a discount. And I can't even remember how much it was at this point in time. I don't think it was a ton, but it still was like. And they, I think they emailed me another photographer that was like, like watermarked and was. I don't know. I just had. I judged.

[Evie McLeod]

I was gonna say there's hardcore judgment coming off of you right now. My eyeballs. Literally when you started, you were like, this other photographer. I was like, no, it's, it's, it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Was, it was like, it was like a random old man. He doesn't listen to this show. I'm not offending anybody, I promise.

[Evie McLeod]

No, it's just the judgment, but go ahead. I'm judging you for judging the photographer.

[Lindsay Roman]

It reminded me of like a old school 90s photographer.

[Evie McLeod]

You know, there's still judgment going on.

[Lindsay Roman]

No, I know, but. Okay, keep going. But I remember they, they sent him and they were like, this guy can do it for this much or something. And again, it wasn't that big of a discount, but it was enough that I was like. And I remember it was a wedding. Like, there was destination. And I was like, oh, I really want to, like, you know, this. I want this. Because, like, yeah, whatever. And so I, I Did it. And so I gave the discount. Even though there was like six small red flags of like, are. Are these really ideal clients? Especially if, like, this other photographer that they're looking at is so different in style to me.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

That I'm like it. If they're okay with that. That sounded bad. I will admit that sounded bad. But like, like, like the styles were so different is what I mean. I was like. I was like, am I bending my. My boundaries? I guess of. Of this is my price for someone that isn't really. It seemed like. But I was like, no, it's fine. I'm gonna do it. I did it. It was a great wedding. It was. It was great. I felt like. I remember going to the hotel after that wedding and I was like crying to Andrew and I was like. I was like, if I never shoot a wedding again, I will be happy.

[Evie McLeod]

Oh, I remember.

[Lindsay Roman]

And it wasn't even that the wedding. It wasn't even that they were hell clients. They weren't hell clients. They weren't like, they treated me great. But it was like the whole day I could feel like I was like, I could have been literally any other photographer and I think they would have been perfectly fine.

[Evie McLeod]

There was. I feel like there was resentment. You felt resentment the whole time?

[Lindsay Roman]

Exactly. But. But it was very subconscious and I don't think I recognized it until after.

[Evie McLeod]

Right.

[Lindsay Roman]

And I don't even know if it was purely based on the discount. I think by the time the wedding happened, I think I had forgotten about it. Well, maybe subconsciously I did it and I just remembered the like, the, the lack of value in like the art, the experience that I provided. And I was like, literally they could have saved so much money on somebody else and been so happy.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And so that's like, that's just obviously one example. I'm sure there's many examples that we could pull of times that we said yes when we should have said no. And that's not even like, in my opinion, I could have done the wedding. Sure. But like, in my opinion, the yes that I shouldn't have given was to yes to the discount.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

I think I should have said my ground. And if they didn't want to book me, they didn't want to book me.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

But I feel like it's that people pleasing. You want to give a discount when it's asked. Or even the FOMO of like, oh, but it's a destination wedding. I want to fly to this place and be fun.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

There's a lot to Unpack.

[Lindsay Roman]

There's a lot to unpack. I will say just as a quick, quick follow up. The weekend after that, I shot a vow renewal in 30A Florida. And it was. It was the absolute dream of dream of dream clients. And it, like, it reignited your love again. It reignited my passion. And I was like, okay, I can do weddings. I can do them. This was why I do it. Anyways, sidebar. Okay.

[Evie McLeod]

I love it. You got your spark back.

[Lindsay Roman]

I did.

[Evie McLeod]

Okay, let's touch on just some of the benefits of saying no.

[Lindsay Roman]

Why you should.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. And I feel like you may be like, okay, I know this, but let's just. Just pretend you don't, because you might need to hear this again. So let's unpack this. Saying no. Create space for the right opportunities. You are saying, I guess let's just.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay, wait. Like, let's take the example that I just did say. I said no to that client. And they said, okay, well, we're going with the 90s photographer, dude. You know that Watermarks. And they went another direction. Maybe. Who knows? I won't ever know. Well, actually, I will know because I don't think I got an inquiry for that same day. But imagine I did.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, imagine I said no, and now that date's freed up. That's obviously one example.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. But you get it by saying, here's. Here's how I always think of it for myself. By saying yes to something, I am saying no to something else. So by saying no to something, I am usually saying yes to something else. Even if that's simply. And, you know, an afternoon or an evening lounging in my backyard with Landon.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, I mean, had you said yes to New York Fashion Week, that would have been however many days away from.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Landon.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Traveling alone, like, I think I was like, would have been first or second try. Like a pregnancy. Like, probably first. There's just, like, there's just things like, did I really want to travel New York alone? No. You know, just different things. You say creating. Saying no creates space for the right opportunities and the right, you know, things. It protects your energy, your time, and your mental health. That's a really big one. You have to be cautious of protecting and preserving your biggest assets, which are your time and your energy and your creativity. Especially as a creative entrepreneur. I. This one, I personally think, especially as you're growing in the industry, it fosters respect.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, you don't seem like a. Like a clingy boyfriend. Yes. Man.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Or like people. People actually respect clear boundaries and they Respect somebody who's like, hey, even I'm even thinking, like, I guess this isn't really a no, but it just does kind of tie into, like, the money and the discount thing, like, the amount of opportunities I've had presented to me and, you know, speaking opportunities or different things. And I've been like, absolutely, here's my rates. And they're like, I love that so much. Unfortunately, like, that's out of our budget right now. And I don't go back and say, like, well, I. I can. I can fit with your budget. Like, I'm like, no. Right. That is my rate. And if it works for you, that's awesome. I would love to, you know, work on this. And if not, that's great. I'm another opportunity again, creating space, like, saying, no. Being like, okay, no worries. We're moving on. And then it models. This is. I love this one. It models healthy behavior for your team, for your kids, for, you know, your fellow entrepreneurs and people around you, your peers, to be able to be like, oh, I love this so much. Unfortunately, like, just not the right season.

[Lindsay Roman]

I would even say your clients, too.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Like, if you. If you set a healthy boundary. I. I'm thinking the first thing that's popping into my mind is, like, if they text you on a Saturday.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And you respond via email on Monday morning. Well, there's nuances there. If that's the first time you've ever done that, maybe text them and say, hey, let's keep. Wow, can't talk. Communication to email.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Or whatever. But it's. It's setting a boundary. And if you explain. I mean, you don't even have to explain, but I think if you. If you said something like, hey, I'm really wanting to prioritize my friends and family. And. And that way I can serve you better and then be fully, like, present with my family when I'm not working. That's email. You know, communication is best. Or whatever it would be. I think that's admirable. And it also. If I were the client in that scenario, I would be more respectful of you as a business owner and as.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

The service provider who's serving me. Because I'd be like, oh, wow. Yeah, she's on it. Like, she has clear boundaries and good separation, which makes me associate the service that she's gonna. Gonna provide me is gonna be incredible.

[Evie McLeod]

Like, she has good systems. She knows her limitations. She knows her boundaries.

[Lindsay Roman]

She has a flow which communicates that you are respectable.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

To that person.

[Evie McLeod]

Experienced.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Skilled knowledgeable. Yeah. I love it. Okay, now we're gonna talk about some practical tips of how to say no confidently. Specifically, we're gonna give you a few scripts. I will say, like, samples of, like, sample scripts of how to say no. We have qu. These. And we were like, how do we.

[Lindsay Roman]

Not give them to you all?

[Evie McLeod]

Make about milk. Like, literally not speak for the next 15 minutes. Like, quoting something in a way that, like, you can't. You're gonna have to transcribe. So we're gonna give you a free PDF downloadable PDF of, like, all of this, like, sample scripts that you can pull and, like, copy and paste and, like, you know, tweak and stuff.

[Lindsay Roman]

So that freebie will be in the show notes. Yes. So you can download the ones that we're gonna say, but then also a bunch of others. Yeah. Because I think it's easier to then copy and paste just practically, if you're wanting to use and obviously tweak them. But here's just a few that we wanted to start off with. So a really easy one is, thank you so much for thinking of me, but I'm not able to commit right now. That is the most basic easy. You don't. I think there's a. There's another element of saying no that you're. You're not obligated to explain yourself.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. You can if you want.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right.

[Evie McLeod]

But you don't have to.

[Lindsay Roman]

You don't have to. And so that's a really great one that I think could work for nearly any opportunity.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

But I'm not able to commit right now. Like, it's. It's nice. It's to the point. It's straightforward. That is what it is.

[Evie McLeod]

The next one is very similar of, like, I appreciate the opportunity, but it's not the right fit for me at this time. Simple, to the point, very clear. Um, the next one is a little bit longer. If you're, like, a little bit more like Lindsay and I, and you want to fluff it out a little bit. I'm so honored you thought of me for this project. I've thought long and hard about this, and while I'm so excited for what you're doing and would love to be a part of it, I don't have capacity for more right now. I'm cheering, cheering you on, though, and can't wait to see how this turns out, it's a little bit more of, like, effusive. Thank you so much. I've really thought about this. It gives a little bit more detail and context. If you want to.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, yeah. The other one we have down on here is I wish I had the capacity for this right now, but unfortunately with my current workload I wouldn't be able to give 100. So that's. It's kind of like the first ones that are a little bit more simple, but it, it kind of gives a reason.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

For you're saying no and obviously you could change that reason if you wanted to. In our PDF, we have a bunch more like literally so many others that you could apply to any situation, one of which is a How to say no when this is mostly for service providers, photographers. But I think it could be tweaked if you get an inquiry and you know it's not the right fit for whatever reason, whether it's like the project. Well, if it's like, if it's something that, like, you just whatever they're envisioning for their wedding day, whether you can see that in the email wedding day.

[Evie McLeod]

Like, I'm thinking graphic designers, like, it would apply to you, like any client process project.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay. Yes. Any client project that, that like the vibes are not aligning or you can tell with what they've wrote in their email or even the client consult call that like, what they're wanting is not what you provide is not your specialty or not what you're wanting to do or, you know, whatever. We have that template in the PDF, which I think will be really helpful for a lot of people.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, for sure. So go download the PDF. The link will be in the show notes. And then just a couple of other practical tips on, like, how to say no confidently. This one could sound cheesy, but, like, I really want to encourage you to do it on the small things and practice saying no so that when the big, like, moment arrives for a big opportunity or a big thing that you're like, oh, crap, like, this is hard. You know, like, build the muscle, have little things. Or, you know, somebody like, asks you, like, hey, could you, you know, come over tomorrow and help me with like, X, Y and Z and be like, no, I'm so sorry, I wish I could, but, like, my day is pretty full. If somebody reaches out and is like, hey, I have a question about blah, blah, like little things. Like little things that you're a little bit easier to practice saying no to practice saying no. It'll make it a lot easier. Like you built a little experience and muscle when it comes to the big things that somebody's asking for a big request and you're feeling really cornered to be able to be like, thank you so much. Unfortunately, not the right fit.

[Lindsay Roman]

The next tip is if you feel like you need more time to truly pray about it, ponder it, really think about whether it should be a yes or no. And this is. Especially if something is truly like, oh, I don't know. It could go either way. I could see myself doing it, or. But I don't know if it's the right fit in the season. Delay the response time and you could say something like, let me check my calendar and I'll get back to you, because it gives you space to have that time to ponder. I want to preface this, though, because if you're using that, if you know in your gut that it's a no, and you're just using that as, like, a filler to try to not let them down. And people, please, like we mentioned at the beginning, then you're. That's more of just wasting your time or their. Their time and your time. So I would only use the. The delay, like message if it's truly, like, a question mark of. I could see myself genuinely saying yes, but I could also see myself saying no, but, like, I need to talk with my husband and you talk with my mom. Like, I just need to pray about.

[Evie McLeod]

It and think about a calendar. Like, genuinely.

[Lindsay Roman]

Right, Right.

[Evie McLeod]

I will say one thing that I really struggled with at the beginning of saying no. My saying no journey was I would often by. In saying no, I think I felt like I was letting them down easier. I would say, like, not right now.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, so then people would reach back out.

[Evie McLeod]

Yes, yes.

[Lindsay Roman]

And then they would. And then you just have to. That's just forcing yourself to say no.

[Evie McLeod]

It just delays it. What I kind of learned, because I would have. There were. I think there were several, like, instances for collaborations or me being on a podcast or, you know, different things that I would be like, oh, I love this. Thanks so much. Like, unfortunately, like, I'm just. My schedule's really packed right now, so, like, this isn't the season. Like, whatever. And I think I Like some of them. I would be like, feel free to reach back out at, you know, or whatever. Like, feel free to own. Because I was trying to, like, let them down easy, but then they're actually.

[Lindsay Roman]

Gonna do what you say.

[Evie McLeod]

To be fair, though, there were several that I was like, I cannot know right now, but it might be yes later. And then I would give them that, like, reach back later. But there were. After a few of those, where I start, I would get people, like, following up later.

[Lindsay Roman]

To be fair on their end. Good for you for hustling.

[Evie McLeod]

But I finally. There were several that I was like, you know, I actually. There have been several that I've said not right now to. That should have just been a no.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

So that's an encouragement too, is like. Like, don't just say, like, maybe later. If it's never gonna be later. And you kind of know that, just say no. It's kinder for everyone at the end of the day.

[Lindsay Roman]

Amazing. Amazing. The last tip is to reframe your no. And I think this is especially for our people pleasers out there.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

You are not rejecting a human being.

[Evie McLeod]

Yes.

[Lindsay Roman]

You are purely prioritizing a season of your life and a decision based on what makes the most sense for you.

[Evie McLeod]

You're honoring your current commitments.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes. Also from the flip side, from any person's place where you're the one that's reaching out or you're trying to, like, take a risk and send that email or submit that, you know, publication, magazine or whatever it is, you have to remember also this fact, if you get rejected, if you get a no, they are not rejecting you as a human being. They are not rejecting, like, your identity and your worth and your value as a human being. They are just possibly not needing what you have to offer at this time.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And so it goes both ways.

[Evie McLeod]

Or they don't have capacity for what you're requesting or whatever it is. So, yeah, just reframe it as like, hey, if you are struggling with saying no to somebody and you're like, I just feel like I'm, like, crushing them, you know, recognize I'm not. I'm not, like, rejecting them. I'm simply honoring my current commitments and I am protecting my highest values right now, which may be like, family or, you know, time to travel, and you can't lock yourself into another, you know, whatever. So reframing it can be a really big one. And then one thing we wanted to say kind of at the end of this episode, as we're, like, wrapping. I want to encourage you as you've listened to all of this, and you're like, great, okay, say no to things. I want you to take, like, five minutes at the. At the end of this episode and kind of ask yourself, like, what am I currently doing that I wish I could say no to? And what's stopping me? Like, is there something on your plate that as we've been talking, you've been like, man, that thing keeps popping up. They mentioned, like, the resentment or, like, draining me or you know, whatever. And it's like popping into your head, like this thing that you've committed to or opportunity or whatever. Obviously there are certain scenarios where like, you, you have to follow through on a commitment and like, maybe learn from that and don't say no. Like, I think one of those podcasts years ago that was asking me repeatedly, I think this person, this host asked me five times to be on the show. And I kept saying, not right now, not right now, not right now. Until finally I got to the point where I was like, I have to.

[Lindsay Roman]

Say yes because I've said I feel obligated.

[Evie McLeod]

I've said so many times, like, pushed it down the road or whatever, kicks the ball down the road that I like. I finally said yes and I honored my commitment and I went through with it and it was fine. But sometimes there are things where like, you kind of put yourself in a corner and you have to follow through. You have to commit. If you committed already, you have to, to follow that commitment. But there are other scenarios where maybe like, you, you know, like, said yes to something, but there's an opportunity, like you agreed to, I don't know, help somebody with something regularly, and you're finally at the place where you're like, my time is so absolutely kept right now. Like, I'm in tears because I don't have enough time in my life. You might need to go to that person and say, hey, I, I unfortunately, like, I need to slow down and cut a couple things out. Like, there are opportunities where you might just simply be feeling like, I have to keep doing this and you don't.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

So ask yourself, well, hopefully this was.

[Lindsay Roman]

Helpful as an episode. If you want those scripts for a bunch of different ways, how to say no for different scenarios, go ahead and go to the show notes and the link to download that freebie will be in there. But thank you so much for watching this episode or listening to this episode. And we are just so honored and excited that you're here that you've tuned into another episode or if this was your first episode. Thank you for being here. We have a good chunk of the party. Yeah, welcome to the party. We have a good chunk of backlog of episodes for you and we are just honored that we get to do this every week and show up in your earbuds or in front of your eyeballs if you're watching on YouTube and if you love this episode, take two minutes, if you would be so kind to leave a five star review on Spotify or Apple or whatever, wherever you listen to your podcast, that would be just immensely, immensely grateful.

[Evie McLeod]

It would be a big blessing to us.

[Lindsay Roman]

Thank you.

[Evie McLeod]

That's the way I meant to say it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Thank you.

[Evie McLeod]

All right, friend, we love you. We'll see you on the next episode.