458: Spoiler alert, Hustle Culture lied to us?! How our view of success has evolved over the years.

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Heart & Hustle Podcast
Episode: 458: Spoiler alert, Hustle Culture lied to us?! How our view of success has evolved over the years
Hosts: Evie McLeod & Lindsey Roman
Date: November 11, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Evie and Lindsey dive deep into how their personal definitions of success have shifted over the years as creative entrepreneurs, women of faith, and mothers. Prompted by a listener's question, they discuss childhood dreams, cultural narratives, hustle culture, and the core values that ultimately shape what success means to them. With humor, honesty, and heartfelt storytelling, they examine their journeys from chasing external validation and "success markers" to redefining fulfillment around meaningful impact, legacy, and faith.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener Prompt & The Big Question

• The episode is built around a listener (Mari)'s question:
  "What did your definition of success used to be, and what does it look like now?”
• Both hosts outline that this will guide a vulnerable look into the shifts in their values and perspectives.

2. Childhood Concepts of Success

• Evie’s roots in joy, peace, and freedom (04:31)
  • "My definition of success from a very young age always was joy, peace and freedom … feeling like I was doing something of meaning, of value and of purpose." — Evie [05:08]
  • Evie credits her parents for instilling a holistic view—success isn't an external accomplishment, but a life oriented around freedom, contentment, and impact.
• Lindsey’s desire for significance and fame (07:19)
  • She shares how watching Disney Channel made her want to be like Hilary Duff—famous, well-known, and "see my name in lights."
  • This early vision was less about the fame itself and more a reaction to small-town norms: "I resented the suburban Midwest, small town life ... That was how I viewed—I looked down... on people that did that and not breaking out into the world." — Lindsey [09:12]

3. Examining Inner Motivations

• Both hosts dig deeper into their motivations:
  • Lindsey: Beneath the surface desire for fame was "wanting my life to mean something," and using fame as a proxy for legacy and impact.
  • Evie: Her consistent theme was always about the life she wanted: “Is this going to lead to the life that I want?” [20:26]
• Notable banter about loving attention and performing:
  • “A core part of my personality is I love making people laugh. And maybe even deeper, making people feel something.” — Lindsey [12:03]

4. Transition to Entrepreneurship & Hustle Culture

• How goals and perception changed with business:
  • Lindsey: Starting a photography business in 2015 shifted her markers of success from “fame” to entrepreneurship landmarks: “I want to make a living supporting my family through my art ... I wanted to be like, well known, I want to be traveling, I want people to book me because of me.” [15:40]
  • Evie: Entrepreneurship continued to serve her big-picture vision—time and financial freedom to prioritize family.
• The Allure and Trap of Milestones:
  • Both hosts discuss being lured by external validation—Instagram followers, crossing revenue thresholds, accolades—and how fleeting or hollow that can feel.
  • “There was an element that I did attach some form of accomplishment ... to a goal like [hitting 10K on Instagram].” — Evie [22:23]
  • “When you hit it, you’re like, ‘Awesome—what’s next?’” — Evie [24:38]

5. Letting Go and Redefining Success

• Evie on purposely stepping back (25:36):
  • She shares about closing a business and downshifting her main company: “Intentionally setting those aside to allow space for motherhood ... there was a moment, no matter how hard I’d tried ... that felt like a hit to my identity ... there’s still a little bit of a surrender.” [25:36–26:11]
• Lindsey's full-circle transformation:
  • “The things I mocked when I was little ... that’s literally like how I view success now: the impact and the honor and the joy of being a wife, being a mom.” [28:49]
  • She highlights the irony that she has gotten many of her “flashy dreams” (travel, an audience, acclaim) but finds deeper fulfillment elsewhere.

6. Faith, Legacy, & Seasons

• Final reflections center on how walking with God sets the truest measure—not external achievements.
  • “A life walking with God and walking with him through each season that he’s called you to ... that could truly be the actress, the politician, the wife and mother, the entrepreneur.” — Evie [30:48]
• Recognizing the evolving nature of success with seasons of life:
  • “Your seasons will change ... the point of success ... am I walking with God? Am I walking in the calling that he has for me?” — Evie [30:48]

7. Role of Parents in Shaping Success (32:02)

• Evie closes with a call to parents:
  • “Don’t take lightly your role in shaping your child’s view of success ... Your perspective and perception of success and the way you teach that to your kids is so beautiful and so powerful." — Evie [32:02]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Evie: "My definition of success from a very young age always was joy, peace and freedom ... feeling like I was doing something of meaning, of value and of purpose." [05:08]
• Lindsey: "I think I wanted to be famous. At the time, that was the desire ... but beneath that was 'I want my life to mean something.'" [08:17]
• Lindsey (on changing goals): “If I don’t go do something famous, or like, well-known, then ... I am a failure. Therefore, everyone in my hometown ... is a failure. That’s how high school Lindsey viewed success.” [12:16]
• Evie (on business milestones): “There’s definitely elements and moments ... I’ve attached forms of accomplishment to goals like that ... but it’s easy to get caught up in little distractions.” [24:16]
• Lindsey (on society's influence): “People start treating you differently when you do things like ... I have five LLCs and I’ve hit seven figures ... you can get swept up into that if you don’t have that core foundational purpose and view of success.” [27:07]
• Evie (faith and calling): “The point of success, in my opinion ... is am I walking with God? Am I walking in the calling that he has for me in the season that he has for me?” [30:48]
• Evie (for parents): “Do not take lightly your role in shaping your child's view of success ... I’m very grateful to my parents on that.” [32:02]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:31-07:19] — Evie’s and Lindsey’s childhood definitions of success
• [08:17-10:14] — Lindsey’s teenage dreams and their deeper meaning
• [12:03-14:40] — Lindsey on performance, external validation, and evolving definitions
• [15:39-16:03] — Lindsey on translating dreams into an entrepreneurial context
• [22:23-24:41] — The lure and letdown of business/social media milestones
• [25:36-27:07] — Evie and Lindsey on letting go of hustle-culture markers
• [28:47-29:51] — Lindsey’s views coming full circle—honoring parenting, family, and a legacy
• [30:28-31:47] — Both hosts summarize faith-driven definitions of success
• [32:02-33:18] — The crucial parental influence in shaping life perspectives

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Tone & Style

• Conversational & Candid: The episode moves naturally from humor (playful back-and-forth about theater and childhood memories) to raw honesty when sharing moments of personal struggle, identity, and change.
• Encouraging & Affirming: Both hosts emphasize the value of each listener’s journey, purpose, and unique season in life.

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Summary

Evie and Lindsey share a refreshingly vulnerable conversation about how our definitions of success can be shaped by culture, childhood dreams, and personal ambitions—but ultimately, are most deeply grounded in purpose, faith, and legacy. Hustle culture and external markers often promise fulfillment, but the hosts' stories reveal a richer, more meaningful narrative: centering one's life around joy, peace, faith, and intentional impact, especially in the context of family.

From wanting to be Hilary Duff or a changemaker on a big stage, to finding deep joy in motherhood and building a legacy, Evie and Lindsey show that true success is less about "making it" in the world's eyes and more about stewarding the life and season God has given—one marked by contentment, service, and authentic connection.

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For anyone struggling with hustle culture, comparison, or simply re-examining what it means to live a successful life, this episode delivers practical encouragement, laughter, and hope.

Transcript

[Evie McLeod]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are your hosts, Evie McLeod and Lindsay Roman. This conversation is going to be fun.

[Lindsay Roman]

A little bit of a peek into.

[Evie McLeod]

Us, our brains, hearts, thoughts, processes, worldview. Yeah. Over the last 10 years, 10 plus years.

[Narrator/Host]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

We had an incredible question posed to us by one of our podcast listeners for a topic idea. Mari asked something along the lines of what did your definition of success used to be and what does it look like now? And we thought that was incredible and very interesting, very intriguing. And we have some thoughts on it. And so we're going to share those today and we're not going to tell you what that is because you got to listen to the episode. So this will be a fun one. We're going to share our hearts with you and hopefully you take something beautiful away from it.

[Narrator/Host]

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[Lindsay Roman]

Hey.

[Evie McLeod]

Hey.

[Narrator/Host]

I'm Lindsey Roman.

[Evie McLeod]

And I'm Evie McLeod. And we are family and legacy focused.

Serial entrepreneurs and the founders of the Hart University, a business education company with a mission to help you thrive in your business and life.

[Narrator/Host]

Welcome to our Entrepreneur Cocktail hour where.

[Lindsay Roman]

Business and marketing strategies meet faith, real.

[Narrator/Host]

Talk and raw in life changing conversations.

[Evie McLeod]

At the end of the day, we are all in this together figuring out.

How to navigate the ups and downs.

The messy and the beautiful and every everything in between. This is a community where you can come as you are, get inspired and walk away equipped to build a legacy filled life.

[Narrator/Host]

You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast.

[Lindsay Roman]

Evie, are you ready to talk about our Definitions of success.

[Evie McLeod]

I'm ready to rumble. Let's do it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay, so let's hearken back to your childhood years.

[Evie McLeod]

Let's hearken back to three year old Evie growing up.

[Lindsay Roman]

What did success mean to you? I feel like I'm Dr. Phil.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Please spill your heart. Tell us all the things talk about. Let's first clarify really quick. We put this in the intro, but a lot of people apparently skip our intros.

[Lindsay Roman]

Don't do that.

[Evie McLeod]

Apparently people just skip intros in general. It's not just us, so I don't feel personally.

[Lindsay Roman]

We give unique information. We're also sometimes.

[Evie McLeod]

Sometimes. Okay, we got a submission for a topic idea from one of our listeners.

[Lindsay Roman]

Mari, you realize what you're doing right now is incentivizing because if people actually listen to the intro, they're gonna be like, she's repeating herself.

[Evie McLeod]

That's actually okay.

[Lindsay Roman]

It's fine.

[Evie McLeod]

Okay, we got a submission. Well, I feel like I have to.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, no, you do. Unfortunately, the question.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, it was also just in general for us to.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's true.

[Evie McLeod]

Do this topic. The question submitted by our listener, Mari, was what did your definition of success used to be? Especially like, I think when. Well, I guess she didn't say when.

[Lindsay Roman]

What just in general did your definition.

[Evie McLeod]

Of success used to be and what does it look like now? And so we're going to kind of unpack that today.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

So starting back to my childhood when I was three, I remember thinking, I'm just kidding.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, in general, in general, I like, I meant that as a joke, but also like low key, not like growing up and therefore kind of your transition into wanting to be a business owner and a photographer as it started for you. Like what? I guess. But I feel like the reason I said growing up is because I feel like success in life starts before you're like, oh, I'm going to be a business, because obviously here's my career.

[Evie McLeod]

This is my career path. I, I would say my. I've always, and I think my parents instilled this really well. My definition of success from a very young age always was joy, peace and freedom.

[Lindsay Roman]

Kindness.

[Evie McLeod]

Yes.

[Lindsay Roman]

Sorry, I was about to listen to.

[Evie McLeod]

The spirit of control. No, I mean, there's actually kind of some. I know you're joking, but like there's actually some truth that I wasn't going that route, but I was like joy and peace. That I was happy and content and feeling like I was doing something of meaning, of value and of purpose.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Like that was, I think, from a very, very young age My definition of success, I could narrow that down to think maybe what it honed into a little bit more as I got a bit older of like, you know what. And what I would say, yeah, it's looks like a bit more in, like, this season and, like, you know, whatever. I could hone that in more, but I think that's always kind of been like. It's always been a.

[Lindsay Roman]

A blanket of, like, no matter what you were doing in life, you wanted those attributes.

[Evie McLeod]

Yes, I wanted to build a life, a career, a life, whatever, that was built around freedom. Time freedom, money freedom, but also joy and peace and, like, value at the center. Like, I was building something that was impactful and that I was finding joy and peace in.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah, that's good.

[Evie McLeod]

What about you? What about baby Lindsay?

[Lindsay Roman]

So, yeah, so I'm a little interesting because I would agree with you, I feel like most people at the heart, I think, would agree with you. Like, I think we all want joy. We all want to be happy. We all want to feel fulfilled in some. In some way that, like, our work or our life has meaning and purpose. Like, I think we all want those things. And I think I. I think there has been variations of how that maybe manifested itself in my life, but I remember it's also weird because I never grew up wanting to be an entrepreneur or envisioning myself. So even when I'm hearing you say, like, oh, I wanted time freedom, or maybe you didn't say time freedom, you.

[Evie McLeod]

Just said time and money freed.

[Lindsay Roman]

Okay.

[Evie McLeod]

Literally, I think when you're saying, like, at the core, all of us probably want that. I would totally agree. I grew up with parents who literally, like, spoke that and trained that into.

[Lindsay Roman]

So it was awesome.

[Evie McLeod]

It was a forefront conscious thing.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes.

[Evie McLeod]

Even though I was like.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, that's why I think. I think it was more obvious for you. I think. I think there is like an innate desire. Yes. Maybe less for, like, time freedom per se. That's very specific to entrepreneurship. Kind of.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

But I think joy and happiness, like, that's what I mean. Like, we all want those.

[Evie McLeod]

Yes, totally.

[Lindsay Roman]

But I grew up not necessarily envisioning myself being an entrepreneur. Although the irony is that I minored in business. But I think that was just me trying to throw a practicality bone, I guess.

[Evie McLeod]

Like your theater.

[Lindsay Roman]

My theater and film degrees. But I double majored, so there is that. No, but I. I think I. If I like specifically high school Lindsey, if I were to look at high school Lindsay and her definition of success. And this is again, before the entrepreneurship stuff, I think if I'm thinking more specific than just joy, happiness, like fulfillment, I think the specific dreams or goals that those manifested themselves in my life at that time or my desires at that time would have been like, I always. I grew up watching the Disney Channel and I wanted to be Hilary Duff, like, just straight up. I just did. She's an icon. She's an icon. Anyways, that was some aggressive eye contact.

[Evie McLeod]

All of our audio listeners are like, what is happening right now? Lindsay's staring down the camera. Anyways, continue.

[Lindsay Roman]

And I think I. I think I wanted to be famous. And I. I think at the time, like, at the time, I think that was the desire. But I think if I'm. If I'm trying to, like, think about the deeper purpose of that, because I think, I think high school Lindsay would have been like, oh, I want to see my name in lights. I want to travel to Paris. I want to be well known and like, walk red carpets. And that's obviously how I think high school Lindsay perceived success. Success in that way. But I think the deeper core, like, foundational piece of that was I want my life to mean something. And I think that's how it was manifesting itself because. And I think, wow, this is therapy. This really is Dr. Phil. I think I looked at, like, growing up in the Midwest of Kansas, and I think I resented almost like the small town. So this is actually a really beautiful, like. Well, I don't want to give away anyways, like, I resented, like, the. The suburban Midwest, small town life of just like, having, like, graduating high school, going to college in the town that you grew up in. Oh, and then like, having a job in the town that you grew up. Oh, like, that was how I viewed. I like, looked down. I remember viscerally, like, being in, like, middle and high school and like, looking down on people that did that and, like, not like going out and busting out and breaking out into the world, per se. And so I think that is why, like, that version of success, I'm like, oh, their life doesn't mean anything because they didn't. They didn't go be Hillary Duff again. I was thinking that, like, a little. I maybe putting a little bit more savagery on how I would probably have said that in the moment in high.

[Evie McLeod]

School, but you viewed breaking out of your hometown and different things as success better than.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, for sure. Yeah, for sure. And I think that led itself a little bit into the lie that therefore, like, because the mindset of staying local, staying small, staying hometown, having children, I think Those were attached. And so there was an element of like me growing up. Like, I, I would say, like, oh, I don't want kids, but at the, at the core heart of it, yes, I did. But I would just be like, kids ruin your life. I can't go to Paris with children. Lol. I went to Paris last year with my children. But like, I just. You know what I'm saying? Like, it, it. I think there was this allure of like a flashy life. Yeah, that was my view of success. But at the core of it, like I said, was just that, that desire to like, live a legacy, which I don't think that in and of itself is bad at all. And not even that like fame or having your name in life, you know, if it's for the right reasons and like, if fame is thrust upon you in, in some capacity, that that's automatically evil. Like, that's not evil in and of itself, but that there is that, that desire that I think I wanted my life to mean something and do something, and I would, I would rap and throw God in there and I'd be like, God, I just want to be famous for your glory.

[Evie McLeod]

And I'm like, okay, well, when you said. I wasn't going to say this, but.

[Lindsay Roman]

I'm kind of going to say that.

[Evie McLeod]

Now that you said that when you were like, I wanted my name in lights, I wanted to be walking red carpets, I wanted to be going to Paris. And you're like, I just think I wanted to like, leave a legacy or like something. I was like low key. Being your friend. You also just love attention.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, well, that's okay. But that's part of it. I feel like I genuinely. A core part of my personality is I love making people laugh.

[Evie McLeod]

Yes.

[Lindsay Roman]

And maybe even deeper making people feel something in some capacity. Which is why I wanted to be an actress in the first place. So there was that piece of I want my life to. I want to do something that is fulfilling to me but also means something.

[Evie McLeod]

Yes.

[Lindsay Roman]

And yeah, high school Lindsay growing up Lindsay would have been like, if I don't go do something famous or like, well known, then therefore I'm not a success and I am a failure. Therefore everyone in my hometown that has not done those things, AKA everybody, is a failure. That's how, that's how high school Lindsay viewed success. And that's on that.

[Evie McLeod]

So your definition of success, that was very hyper specific. That in for a season, I feel like was probably. Would you say middle school, high school, or just high school?

[Lindsay Roman]

Not even. Not Even middle school. Middle school was like when I first auditioned to my first play.

[Narrator/Host]

Okay.

[Lindsay Roman]

And I remember being like, oh, that'd be like, I guess fun to like be like a side, like background character. And then I did that and I was like, I want to be the star.

[Evie McLeod]

I'm shocked. Shocked. Can't imagine. Okay, so high school Lindsay, do you feel like you're still. Definition of success has changed today?

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, yes. Ooh.

[Evie McLeod]

Well.

[Lindsay Roman]

But I feel like that's like high school Lindsay. And then there's. And so like, I guess it's. It's how you define what you used to view as success. Because there's an element of. I think then when I decided not to go down the route of being an actress, I intentionally, like, had plans to go to LA and like, try to actually pursue that. And then I made the intentional choice to not do that. I think that was more God working in my heart and being like. I had the awareness of like, I don't feel like that is my calling. Because if I'm going to do that, it needs to be like, in order to even get a glimmer of success in that, in my opinion, I think you have to be like, hell bent on it.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And I wasn't at the time. And so that's. That's almost that transition of when I started playing around with photography and then like entrepreneurship.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

Fell into it. And then at that point in time. We'll come back to you eventually, I promise. I feel like I'm just talking a lot, but I feel like when I started my business of photography, that's when I would agree with you of like, hey, I really. I want to live a life that. That still had those elements of like, I want to live a life of meaning, of success in the sense of like, I want to make an impact is probably how I would define that then.

[Evie McLeod]

Or like, I feel accomplished, like I've done something bigger than myself.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes, yes.

[Evie McLeod]

Which even building your photography business may have been an element of, like, I want to be really good at this.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yes. Like, I want to be really good at. I mean, that's still the case. I feel like I still want those things. But I would say how that also manifested itself specifically with photography is like, I want time, freedom. I want to make a living supporting my family through my art, which is very similar to acting in that way. But then I think the way that I think social media and the world can kind of sway you a little bit. And given that where I came from was like, I want my name and lights. I think at the time when I got into photography, which was like 2015, like I wanted to be this like destination elopement photographer. And so I feel like that was the physical manifestation of how success looked to me. Like specifically with entrepreneurship photography of like, I want to be like well known, I want to be traveling. I want people to book me because of me, not because they just need somebody.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

So that's. But at the core of it, yeah, I would still say the same thing of like I wanted time, freedom, I wanted my life to mean something. I wanted art that, that I got like rewarded for in the sense of like, like acclaimed for in some way. But also that supported my family. Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

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[Lindsay Roman]

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[Evie McLeod]

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[Narrator/Host]

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[Evie McLeod]

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[Evie McLeod]

Good.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, that's on. That's on me. How about. How about you, like, as you grew up, because you had mentioned at the beginning you. You wanted. Yours is a lot more wholesome. So precious.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, I mean, I don't want to, like, pretend like there were, like. I also grew up a theater kid, Right. And I really considered going into, like, Hollywood acting, whatever, as well.

[Lindsay Roman]

Was that before politics? Because you wanted to do politics for a minute there, too.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah, it was like, middle school, like, early high school, that I was like, maybe I could do this. And then every time I would realistically look at it, I was like, I'm wanting to save my first kiss for my husband. That is not going to work in Hollywood.

[Lindsay Roman]

My first kiss was literally a stage.

[Evie McLeod]

Stage kiss. Yeah. No, I literally would not do it, So I would not do it for me on stage.

[Lindsay Roman]

I was Esmeralda in the hunchback at notre dame. And the guy that played Faye bouss was my actual first living kiss in life. And I remember Mrs. Marion, our drama teacher, she. Every time we ran that scene, she would have us, like, not die.

[Evie McLeod]

Betrayal.

[Lindsay Roman]

Continue. Sorry. This is really fun information. Kind of. I guess she would have us not kiss.

[Narrator/Host]

She, like.

[Lindsay Roman]

She said, like, hey, let's not do that. I'll tell you at a later time when we can actually do it. I think that was just, like, maybe a classy, like, move.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

These high schoolers. And there's a stage kiss. Like, let's be classy about it. But I remember there was, like, one night where that scene wasn't even on the schedule to be, like, ran. And after. At the end, she was like, hey, Lindsay, Tyler, stay back. We're gonna run that one scene again. And I was like, oh, okay. And I remember my friend Lauren had, like, drove me that night. And so Lauren had to stay, too. And so Ms. Marin's like, oh, yeah, go up there. And then when we get close, she's like, oh, by the way, just like, let's do that. And now adult me is like, she was giving us privacy.

[Narrator/Host]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

In the scene, she was trying to not build it up as something you were, like, overly anticipating, dreading, whatever, for, like, hours.

[Lindsay Roman]

Lauren knew it was my first kiss, and she was like, anyways, that is A sidebar. Continue.

[Evie McLeod]

I don't remember what I was saying.

[Lindsay Roman]

Hollywood politics.

[Evie McLeod]

Oh, well, like, obviously there were elements of like, you know, I was like, oh, it'd be so cool to be like a famous actress or you know, like when I was, I was really passionate about politics. I feel like most people know my story by this point and I was like super, like, I really want to make a difference and an impact in politics. So there were things as like possible career choices that I considered, but all of it was so anchored in like, is this going to lead to the life that I want?

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

And I feel like, which is, I feel like wise. I think my parents, I think my parents did an incredible job of like instilling that in us kids from a very young age. So that was like our, our primary. And it was like that our, our career should fit into the life we want, which that kind of ties into like. I didn't mention this on my initial definition of success from a very young age, but from a very young age I have always wanted to be a wife and a mother. And I've wanted to be, because I watched my mom do this so beautifully, I wanted to be a stay at home mom who homeschooled her children. Like, that has been my life dream and I would say probably the number one ambition on earth outside of the gospel. And like, you know, the, the great commission has been like, I want to raise up the next generation and pour into them with all that I have. So that, and I guess you could say would be like a version of success. And I wanted my everything else in life to be built around building a life that allowed me the freedom and the ability to be a stay at home mom. So like everything from like acting, I was like, okay, cool, I could do that short term until I have kids, politics, okay, I could do that until I start having K. Like all of it was like, this is temporary, whatever. So I feel like that stayed very consistent. And I genuinely think when I really like look back at like my definition of success, even entering into like this career now, like 10 years ago, starting a photography business, it was so that I could build time, freedom, financial freedom to be able to be able to have joy, peace as a stay at home mother. So like, I genuinely like right now, if I'm like, honestly, has there been a shift in my definition of success from the time I can remember to now? No.

[Lindsay Roman]

That's awesome.

[Evie McLeod]

But the caveat I want to say to that is that I think it is. I can say that confidently as a Blanket statement. But I can also say that it is so easy to get caught up in little. Little seasons, little moments, little metrics. Like we. I think we were talking about this. When we were talking about outlining this, this conversation. And it was like even something as simple as, like I was like, oh frick, I wanna, I really wanna hit 10,000 on Instagram. Like, I really wanna hit it. And there was an element that I did attach some form of accomplishment. I don't wanna say success, but like accomplishment to a goal like that.

[Lindsay Roman]

I feel like you could say feeling of success things. It was like there's an element I think of when you reach. And maybe this is photography or. Or entrepreneurship industry. When you reach a level in whatever industry you're in where other people look at you.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

With a level of acclaim. Or like you receive like we've received DMS over the years of just like, oh my gosh, you responded like. Like, I think comments like that, if you're not careful, can help slowly build the bricks of ego.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

To be like, oh wow, like it's about. I did respond to you like, like, and it's not. It's very like subtle.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Roman]

And it almost. I feel like you have to intentionally combat though that from happening.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah.

Like, that's what I want to like give the caveat of like there's. There's been moments that I've been super distracted of. Like, oh frick, if only I could get. If only I could book a wedding at that price or that location or if only I could that 10,000 followers. Or like when we were like building out the heart and we hit our first million in revenue, like in you know, whatever period of time, nine months, we hit like a million. And I was like, holy crap, I've made it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

Like, there's definitely elements and moments that like I've allowed or looked at minuscule, like mile markers almost. Not that I say minuscule. I could hear somebody being like, okay, you're just call in a million.

[Lindsay Roman]

Well, many school in the grand scheme of. Because at the core.

[Evie McLeod]

Yes.

[Lindsay Roman]

That was never.

[Evie McLeod]

I don't.

[Lindsay Roman]

You never define success by those things, even though it was never success.

[Evie McLeod]

Correct.

[Lindsay Roman]

When hitting them.

[Evie McLeod]

I don't want to pretend like I'm this like perfect goody two shoe hoity toity. Like I've always had my head on straight. Like there's moments that you get distracted by these other markers, these other even like goals. Like I would. I had a goal at one point of like hitting a hundred thousand in my business and like, when I hit that as a photographer, and when I hit that, I was like, yes, I freaking did it. Like, this is awesome. I worked my butt off for this, you know, whatever. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but it's. It is sometimes easy to be like that almost becomes the big, biggest thing you're focusing on. And you're like, a hundred thousand, A hundred thousand. A hundred thousand, A hundred thousand. And then you hit it and you're like, awesome. What's next? And like, there's still been moments like I, I personally, in my journey, when I closed the doors on Evie Swim and when we downshifted the heart, which was all kind of around the same season. Well, is it.

[Lindsay Roman]

Both of those were intentionally stepping away from bigger directions.

[Evie McLeod]

Yes. From bigger revenue, from more opportunities, from more fame, from, you know, whatever you want to call it. Intentionally setting those aside to allow space for motherhood and kind of a season that, like, I was entering into and Lindsay was like, deep in. There was a moment, no matter how hard I had tried over the years of entrepreneurship to not allow my identity to come from my work or my accomplishments or what I do, which I've always been very cognizant. Cognizant. Cognitive cognizant.

[Lindsay Roman]

Cognizant, sure.

[Evie McLeod]

Cognizant of. And tried to be very cautious and aware of, like, I don't want my identity wrapped up in my work. That's just not. I'm. I am not my work ever. I am, you know, a child of God and a beloved, you know, whatever. So I've always tried to have that. But there is still. There was a little bit of a surrender and like a dying to self of laying down, like, oh, I can't say that I have a seven, you know, actively run a seven figure business anymore because we're downshifting it. And I can't say that I have currently actively like five LLCs running, you know, with heavy swim and like, whatever. There was an element that I was like, okay, this feels like a hit to my identity. Even though I tried so hard to keep them separate. So there were still like, there's still moments that I'm like. My definition of success at its root has always stayed the same and has been primarily the forefront, but it's still easy to get caught up in little distractions.

[Lindsay Roman]

Totally. Well, and I think most people could, I think, relate to the. In our society and in our culture because of comparison, because of people start treating you differently when you do things like, oh, I have five LLCs, and I've hit seven figures in a business and multiple businesses. Like, there's. There's. When you. When you start leaning into those things and then people start acting different around you or perceiving or talking about you in a specific way. I feel like those add to the. The. The easy swaying of, like, you can get swept up into that if you don't have that core foundational purpose and view of success, like, really firm. Yeah, I feel like people can easily get swayed into that. Yeah, I feel like for me now, because I feel like mine might be a little more dramatic or at the core, I don't think it's different, but how it's. Well, no, it's probably different. I'm like. I'm thinking like, if high school me wanted, like, my name in lights, wanted to travel the world, wanted to be well known, and obviously she wanted to do that via acting. I feel like the irony is that God gave me that. Maybe not on the scale of fame that I wanted, but he definitely gave me a stage. A stage. Well, he gave me a stage, a platform, an audience of sorts that looked at me or has looked at me in a sense, in a glimmer of a way that I wanted when I was a kid and I've traveled the world, I've shot destination weddings, I've been to Paris. I've done all those things.

[Evie McLeod]

You've told stories, you've evoked emotions.

[Lindsay Roman]

All the things. It's like. It's like I've tasted it. And the irony is that, like, the things I mocked when I was little of, like, oh, having kids, being white picked, picket white, the American dream. Like, like, that's literally, like, how I view success now is. And. And I don't think that that's. I still love empowering others and having impact in a bigger way. And when I say bigger, I mean just like lots of people being impacted.

[Evie McLeod]

Yeah. Broader scale.

[Lindsay Roman]

Broader scale. But I view it as, like, miniscule compared to the impact and the honor and the joy of being a wife, being a mom, and getting to show my girls that God is so much bigger than your dreams and the things that he can accomplish in your life are so much greater and richer than anything that you can think of on your own.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, I think that's, like, at the core, you know, of, in my opinion, success. If I had to really sit here and be like, I truly think this is success for every believer is a life walking with God and walking with him through each season that he's called you To Yeah, because like, your seasons will change. Like, I look at my own mom now with all of us kids out of the house, and I see like, you know, her, her version of success has probably shifted a bit in the, in the sense of like, what is her season now?

[Lindsay Roman]

Yeah.

[Evie McLeod]

And it's like I think of myself and I'm like, yes, I could say, you know, I've spent the last 20, whatever years like waiting and dreaming and hoping to be a wife and a mother. And I know that this season isn't pro. Like, not that you stop being a mother. I will say, my poor mother. I call her almost every day. Mom, I have a question, Mom. I'm gonna tell you about my day.

[Lindsay Roman]

Mom.

[Evie McLeod]

I wanna know this. She will never stop being a mom. But, you know, I'm like, the point of success, in my opinion, especially as a believer, is am I walking with God? Am I walking in the calling that he has for me in the season that he has for me in the fruits of the spirit? Am I impacting and serving and stewarding and blessing those around me like that at the core, I think could truly be the actress, the politician, the wife and mother, the entrepreneur. Like, it's just that in my opinion is probably what I would. And not that anyone asked me this, they said, what was your definition of success for yourself? Probably, but I'm just gonna give you my blanket. I think that is what I would say success looks like no matter who you are personally. Take that earlier.

[Lindsay Roman]

That was a word. We should just end it right there. Friends and family.

[Evie McLeod]

Well, hopefully that was fun and interesting.

[Lindsay Roman]

It was a little peek into just like a girl chat conversation that Mari presented a really great trigger like question.

[Evie McLeod]

I don't know why I also felt the need to like say this. Don't take for granted if you are a parent listening to this or you plan or hope or want to be a parent someday. Do not take lightly your role in shaping your child's view of success and or worldview from a very young age. I truly am so grateful that my parents did that again. Not that I haven't had head turned or, you know, whatever, but I really think that's something also that's so beautiful and so powerful is like success is bigger than your own an A grade or, you know, like being popular or whatever, whatever it is that's so easy to be like, I want you to do well. So like, I'm gonna really push on like the best grades. It's like sometimes that can accidentally teach your kids that success is like performance and, you know, whatever. So I don't want to get into that rabbit, the whole can of worms, but just an encouragement to any parent or want to be parent that your perspective and perception of success and the way you teach that to your kids is so beautiful and so powerful. And I'm speaking from experience on that. I'm very grateful to my parents on that.

[Lindsay Roman]

So I feel like just being a parent in general, you have such a joy and an honor and an important.

[Evie McLeod]

Task of, like, shaping their worldview.

[Lindsay Roman]

Shaping. Yeah. Your child's worldview, which is the rest of their life. No pressure.

[Evie McLeod]

All right, friend, we love you. We hope this was encouraging, informative, humorous, whatever it was for you.

[Lindsay Roman]

Oh, I know. Someone had a good chuckle on my first date experience. Not my first date. Sorry. My first kiss.

[Evie McLeod]

You're like, that was my first date. Interesting. Your director's there. Okay.

[Lindsay Roman]

It's like. Okay, Lindsay, you're getting a little wires crossed.

[Evie McLeod]

Okay.

[Lindsay Roman]

All right.

[Evie McLeod]

We love you, friend. We will talk to you on the next episode. Sam.