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The Heart & Hustle Podcast
461: How to Utilize TikTok & Social Media as Wedding Filmmakers with Jay & Mack Films
01:05:58
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- [00:01]
Lindsay Roman
You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are your hosts, Evie McLeod and Lindsay Roman. Welcome back to the show, friend. Today we had the honor of talking to a videography team that is beloved by me and everyone probably and many and many. We're so excited to welcome them to the show. We are talking with the incredible Jay and Mac films. Now, if you haven't heard of them, they're phenomenal. So let me just break it down for you. Jay and Mac. They are a husband and wife wedding videography team based out of San Diego, California and they specialize in creating, creating authentic documentary style wedding films that capture the essence of each couple's unique love story. And their approach, I would say, is deeply personal. Focusing on just the most beautiful moments that matter most on a wedding day and ensuring that every film is a true reflection of that couple's journey together. And they are literally phenomenal at what they do. And this conversation was so good, we went off in many different directions, I'll let Evie tell you, but it was a, a true like wedding vendor. Let's share the reality episode.
- [01:05]
Evie McLeod
Yeah. Well, we started off talking with Jane Mack about kind of their approach to how they go about a wedding day with a documentary style and yet still having not following a cookie cutter approach to their films and how they create such beautiful, unique artistic films while being very hands off and not really directing on a wedding day. So we touched on that and we started with that conversation and then flowed into their approach to TikTok to social media. They have just done incredibly well across social media over the years and have had many, many, many videos go viral, have created, you know, an incredible community and following. So we really just absolutely dove into what has that looked like, what logistically, what, you know, clips do you choose to share versus not and how do you balance private moments or personal things from a couple and wanting to share that but not to share their personal, private moments online, especially when it goes viral, all of the things. So we asked them a lot about the logistics of sharing on social media and then also sharing stuff that tends to go viral and getting client, you know, clients in on that decision. There was a lot in that and then we really touched on at the end feeling like you've gotten into a funk on social media, which Jay and Mac were just both so transparent and honest with us about where they're at with social media right now and you know, the, what they're learning and it was such an honest, honest and incredibly encouraging conversation in every possible way. They are Phenomenal at what they do. They shared so much insight and incredible, like wisdom strategies for every business owner, whether you're a videographer or not. It was amazing and you are going to love this conversation with them. So don't go anywhere. And let's talk with Jane.
- [02:57]
Podcast Advertiser 1
Mac, I've got two words for you that will seriously uplevel your business.
- [03:02]
Evie McLeod
You ready for it?
- [03:03]
Podcast Advertiser 1
Niche down.
- [03:04]
Podcast Advertiser 2
We're sure you've heard it a million.
- [03:05]
Evie McLeod
Times, like everyone and their mom tells.
- [03:07]
Podcast Advertiser 2
You to niche down. But maybe you're still struggling to see the benefits.
- [03:10]
Evie McLeod
Well, we're here to tell you from.
- [03:12]
Podcast Advertiser 2
Experience, it will in fact help you sell and scale in the long run. And once we actually did niche down ourselves, it worked.
- [03:20]
Podcast Advertiser 1
Our businesses soared, which is why we want to give you an explanation and then teach you step by step exactly how to niche down. You excited? Because we know that we are go to theheartuniversity.com niche to begin the process of honing in on your area of expertise.
- [03:44]
Evie McLeod
Hey. Hey.
- [03:45]
Lindsay Roman
I'm Lindsay Roman.
- [03:46]
Podcast Advertiser 2
And I'm Evie McLeod.
- [03:47]
Evie McLeod
And we are family and legacy focused serial entrepreneurs and the founders of the Hart University, a business education company with a mission to help you thrive in your business and life.
- [03:57]
Lindsay Roman
Welcome to our entrepreneur cocktail hour where business and marketing strategies meet faith, real talk and raw in life changing conversations.
- [04:04]
Evie McLeod
At the end of the day, we are all in this together, figuring out how to navigate the ups and downs, the messy and the beautiful and everything in between. This is a community where you can come as you are, get inspired and walk away equipped to build a legacy filled life.
- [04:18]
Podcast Advertiser 1
You're listening to the Heart and Hustle podcast.
- [04:28]
Lindsay Roman
Jay and Mac, welcome to the Heart and Hustle podcast. Oh my gosh. I am so excited for this interview. Let's go.
- [04:34]
Jay
Thanks. Yeah. Thanks for having us. We're super excited to be here.
- [04:38]
Lindsay Roman
Oh my goodness. Oh, this is gonna be a great time. So. Well, I'll just shut my mouth. Okay. I was gonna go off in like.
- [04:47]
Evie McLeod
5 million rabbit holes. Shuts her mouth as she continues talking.
- [04:49]
Lindsay Roman
Continue. Before I blab, I wanna welcome you to the show and for that might have not heard of you or is just listening to the show and they're like, who is Jay and Mac? Like, what are they about? Introduce yourselves, share what you do, who you are, all the good juicy things.
- [05:06]
Jay
Oh man. Introductions. I'm Jay, this is Mac. We're a husband and wife wedding videography team. We've been filming weddings since 2016. So almost 10 years just under and anything to add?
- [05:24]
Mac
We filmed our first wedding together. We've always been doing this together. Every wedding, right?
- [05:29]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah.
- [05:30]
Jay
Yeah. Ever since our very first wedding, we've been working together. I used to work as nurse. I'm no longer a nurse. We do this full time for now.
- [05:38]
Evie McLeod
Wow.
- [05:39]
Jay
And, yeah, it's a little bit about us. Our approach and philosophy is documentary. Just an emphasis on genuine moments and not interrupting the day or interrupting the experience of our couple's day. Just letting them live it and then those moments and, yeah, building off of them in the edit.
- [05:57]
Lindsay Roman
So amazing. Well, if. If anybody hasn't watched their wedding films, y' all need to go recorrect that right now.
- [06:07]
Evie McLeod
Right? You're wrong.
- [06:08]
Lindsay Roman
Go pause this episode. Go watch 1 or 2 or 10, and then come back and then resume so you'll know how dope they are, how incredible their films are. The reason I know them. Ish. I mean, kind. No, in quotes, kind of is we shot a vow renewal a few years ago together in 30A, and it was so much fun. And so it was just a wild time getting to work with you guys. And you are incredible at your craft.
- [06:34]
Jay
Likewise. Same to you. Yeah.
- [06:36]
Lindsay Roman
Well, thank you. It's really great to work alongside fellow creatives in a way that, like, it just feels like collaborative art. And you can tell that you guys are, like, artists, which is so fun. So I cannot wait for this conversation.
- [06:48]
Evie McLeod
I love it. Okay. I am so excited for this conversation. And you guys mentioned right out the gate that your approach is very documentary, not interrupting a wedding day.
- [07:03]
Jay
I.
- [07:04]
Evie McLeod
Your style is bold, cinematic. Like, it's. It's fun and playful and energetic and unique. And, like, it feels like a film. It feels artistic. It feels like it's not Cookie Cutter in any way, shape, or form. Immediately out the gate, I just have a question on how do you do that in a way? Like, how do you cultivate films that are so unique and feel almost like they are set up to be so perfect and cool and unique? You're not following Cookie Cutter.
- [07:39]
Podcast Advertiser 2
Right?
- [07:40]
Evie McLeod
But yet you guys, like you said, you have an emphasis on, like, we're not trying to make this a video shoot. Like, this is your wedding day. Does that make sense? Like, how do you guys create that magic with that philosophy?
- [07:52]
Jay
Yeah, well, thanks for the compliment. As far as, like, how we tried to do that, I think it. It goes back to. So when we first started, we were not, like, our style now is not what it was like. Probably from 2016 up until 2020, we used to, like, direct almost every part of the day, especially, like, during getting ready, we needed the perfect composition. We needed the perfect light. We just. We need to direct the perfect shot. The movements have to be perfect. Just everything needed to be perfect. And while that was great for us that time, like, it built a foundation for us to learn, like, what good look, what good light looks like, what good composition looks like, what movements are appropriate in certain scenes or whatever. Like, it helped us build that foundation. But around 2020, it kind of just was like, if it felt repetitive and it felt like you could just swap any couple out with another couple and it would be the same thing. And at that time, I think TikTok started, like, taking off just as a platform. And Mac, I think she was just, like, calling a wedding or something.
- [09:05]
Mac
And she found something even before that. Like, the first video I posted was at the zoo. It was a gorilla, and it started raining, and the gorilla was, like, running away. And I thought it was so cute and relatable. People would do that too. So I was like, oh, this is. And it did really well. I think it got, like, 300,000 views, like, which at that time, like, as my first one of my first posts. So I was like, maybe we can relate this to weddings. So that's when I started posting, like, yeah, so she.
- [09:35]
Jay
Yeah, she posted relatable content. And, like, I'm a perfectionist. She's not. So, like, she would literally cut the clip. It's not color graded, it's not stabilized. It's, like, not something I would post on Instagram. And she just posted it. And because it was like a. Like a vow, or the officiant asked the groom to promise to take her shopping, like, every day or something like that.
- [10:00]
Mac
Oh, yeah, you were at work as a nurse. And I was upstairs on the computer. I was like, jay, I'm gonna post this. And I did.
- [10:06]
Jay
And then it took off and around that. Anyways, long story short, like, that took off and kind of just made us realize, oh, people do, like, these more raw moments. Relatable. And around that time, we had just filmed a wedding where, like, I went into it with a mindset of I'm going to direct, because it was at this beautiful location in Stinson beach, and the whole day was going to be beautiful. And when I got there, like, the groom wanted to do a search session with all of his guys in the morning, and I had this vision. I was going to, like, have him grab his board, have him walk out, paddle out, like, all these different angles. And then the moment I got there, he's like, you Here, let's go. And he grabs his board, runs, and then just starts taking off with all the guys, and they just started running. And, like, I couldn't film any of the scenes I had envisioned in my head. And at the time, I was stressed, but I still just. We just. Still just filmed, like, everything. And because it was so, like, energy, energetic, and chaotic, like, that's how the footage looked. And. And that whole day I was so stressed because I wasn't able to direct because everything was just go, go, go. Same with his bride, his wife, now she was just like, go, go, go, go, go. And they were so fun, had so much energy. And again, on the day of, I was really stressed, and I thought, like, we didn't get anything good. And then we went back to the edit and we're building the story and found, like, oh, my gosh, there's all these real moments. And, yeah, they may not be, like, the best composition, best movement, best lighting, whatever, but they're real and they feel. They just make you feel. And so when we built the edit, we kind of honed in on having those be our anchor points, those moments. So just capitalizing on that emotion in those shots in those moments. And that ended up being, like, one of our favorite videos ever, at least at the time. Couple loved it. They sent us their reaction. It was incredible. And that kind of just shifted our mindset of, like, wow, like, things don't have to be perfect. Like, you just need to make people feel. And we genuinely enjoyed editing that one so much more than, like, having a structure and having all these perfect shots that we normally rely on. It was a challenge for us to see how can we make this work and still make people feel. So that kind of set us off in the direction that we are now constantly posting. And we continued on TikTok posting, like, moments, not just from, like, vows or anything like that, but we started micing up couples for the majority of the day from, like, the moment dress and suit is on up until open dancing. So we would get these hot mic moments, is what people would call them. And a lot of them would be like, right after the ceremony ends, the couple's walking down and they think we're not filming, but I am, even if it's from behind. And they say something to each other and it might be nothing, but it might be really sweet, or like, oh, my gosh, like, I got boogers, something like that. And we would just, like, use those as bridging moments in the edit. And those moments like that are so unique. And specific to the couple, which is how. Going back to your question, Evie, like, how we make it feel like the couple is. We look for those moments. So we watch all the footage together. We sync it up with our mics so we can find those moments and see who they are as a couple.
- [13:37]
Mac
And.
- [13:38]
Jay
And then tailor like, the music selection, the pacing and everything around that vibe that they have. Are they playful? Are they a bit more, like, reserved but romantic, like, deeply intimate? Whatever that vibe is, is how we would, like, create the feeling around. So, yeah. Influencing music choices. And then on the day of too, we're like, okay, we can tell they're more playful, so maybe we are going to move a little bit more. Especially me. I'm moving around a lot. She's pretty stat stationary. But if they're like really playful, I might throw in more like exaggerated handheld movements. Or if they're like, more reserved. I don't want to add a lot of that because it's gonna be a mismatch, like chaos when they are not a chaotic couple. So sorry. That was like a very long winded.
- [14:28]
Evie McLeod
No, that was.
- [14:29]
Jay
To get to where we are.
- [14:30]
Lindsay Roman
I wanna know.
- [14:31]
Evie McLeod
That was flawless.
- [14:32]
Lindsay Roman
If any of the listeners. I just got the ad. You were talking. I was like, this is like hearing a Batman origin story.
- [14:38]
Jay
Like.
- [14:39]
Lindsay Roman
Or like a superhero origin story. I' literally. You like explaining the surf experience.
- [14:45]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [14:45]
Lindsay Roman
Is like the origin story of like, how you guys, like, came. Became known for, like, the style that you do now and how you found.
- [14:53]
Evie McLeod
The style that was so fascinating.
- [14:55]
Lindsay Roman
I feel like I literally just heard a Superman origin story, guys.
- [14:58]
Evie McLeod
You heard about Spider man, like, being bit by. Yes, a spider.
- [15:01]
Lindsay Roman
Literally their version. It's like. It's like the chaos of a wedding day, which naturally happens. Like, forced you to therefore almost film chaotically in that moment, but then like, unlocked like a creative, like, Mario Kart level. I don't know.
- [15:18]
Evie McLeod
Once he's on the analogy train right now.
- [15:20]
Jay
Yeah, I love it. I love it.
- [15:23]
Lindsay Roman
That was fascinating. Well, and you also kind of answered the next question I was going to ask was how do you. How does the fine. How do you get the final film to reflect not only your personal style, but the couple's unique personality? But I feel like you just answered that where it's like, do you listen to the sound bites like first or. I guess maybe this is more a logistical question. How do you scrub through like an entire day of like, somebody talking.
- [15:45]
Evie McLeod
I was gonna say, because you said you rewatch. I was literally gonna ask. I'm so glad you did you say you have them mic'd up? Like, from getting, you know, dress on to open dancing? That could be eight hours. Do you guys sit down and listen? Slash, watch eight hours of footage?
- [16:02]
Jay
Not. Not like the entire part. So. So it's timecode sync, meaning like. Like it's synced with our clips. So if we're shooting really wide, like, and they're off in the distance and having a conversation, like, we can listen to it. So, yes, we watch all of our footage. We don't listen to the entire audio. But if there's something, like, from the experience of listening and understanding, where there's potential for hot mic moments, we know when to keep listening. So, like, yeah, let's say we're filming right after the processional or the ceremony exit, and they say something really cute or sweet. And then I stopped recording. I'm still gonna continue to listen because they may say something that's just like a gold sound bite. Like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe we're married. And I don't necessarily need. We don't necessarily need the footage to make that sound bite work. Like, we can use it as a bridging moment somewhere in the film or opening, opening, throw, B, roll over. However we wanna use it. The limit is our creativity, so we can find a way to use it. So we've learned from that experience of culling, where there's a potential for those moments. So it's usually before or after. Very.
- [17:22]
Mac
High energy.
- [17:23]
Jay
High energy. But also maybe right after Emotional moments. Yeah, emotional moments. Like first dance or parent dances. They may say something right after we stopped filming, which I tried to be better and continue filming, because a lot of times that's where those moments are. Because they. They're not like, very consciously, like, oh, they're not filming anymore. Now I'm going to say something, but subconsciously, like, that moment is over and then they can. The formality of that moment is over and they will be more themselves, if that makes sense.
- [17:56]
Lindsay Roman
And it's like you're. No, no, I want that part.
- [17:59]
Mac
Yes.
- [17:59]
Evie McLeod
You're like a sneaky undercover.
- [18:01]
Jay
Exactly. It's kind of like directing, right? Like, you direct them to get whatever shot you want. But the best shots are, like, once you let your camera go down and they know you're not shooting and then they're actually without failed.
- [18:15]
Evie McLeod
And then you shoot from the hip. The experience. I feel like the experienced photographers literally know to be like, oh, my gosh, so cute. Drop it. Like, just enough.
- [18:23]
Lindsay Roman
And then you keep shooting.
- [18:27]
Jay
That'S smart. Yeah.
- [18:29]
Lindsay Roman
It's so true.
- [18:31]
Evie McLeod
I love it.
- [18:31]
Lindsay Roman
Oh my gosh. Okay, could you. I want to get into a little bit of a tick tock. But before we talk about that, could you guys. This is also like a really involved question so feel free to give us spark notes because this is, I'm. This is a lot. But what if you had to describe because you guys are really, really incredible at client experience, like giving a high end experience and also quality product. But like is there anything in your client experience journey from like inquiry to delivery that you'd love to highlight or like showcase to people of like hey, this is what we do and this is how we get such incredible clients or client feedback or reactions on the wedding day. Does that make sense?
- [19:09]
Jay
Yeah. Do you have any?
- [19:12]
Podcast Advertiser 1
Yeah.
- [19:12]
Mac
The first thing that came to mind was communication with the couple like from the very beginning to the very end. Especially like when we're not able to. Well recently we've been delivering like on the due dates and before but beforehand sometimes we wouldn't make it on like the three months or the four month due date. So we would communicate with them and let them know like hey, we're still working on your film and it would totally understand.
- [19:39]
Jay
Yeah. Like if, if we know that we're probably not going to deliver by whatever the timeline was on the contract. We just let them know, hey, here's where we're at. We're still editing this and this and like we don't want to rush just to meet like a due date. We want to pour our hearts into it. We hope you understand and pretty much everybody's always been understanding so. But yeah, just constant communic with emails. But for me I would say like our experience on the day of like the wedding and we film a lot of multi days so we'll be there like for welcome party rehearsal dinner. And I would say it's the energy that we bring because that shift from directing the entire day. So we've done both, right? We've been those people that direct and interrupt the entire day and now we're those people that sit back and observe inter. It's unbelievable how much like people's energy affects the day. So like we filmed the weddings where people are stressed out of their minds. Like some of the. We don't do a ton of luxury weddings like by the industry standards but we have done a few and it's crazy watching how like just that, that pressure of it being a luxury wedding can affect people and then their energy is a little bit anxious. And chaotic, and it affects the couple and how they experience the day. And we're always those people that just sit back and observe and then provide, like, a calming energy if. If we sense that it's needed. Like, hey, everything's going great. Like, it's. It's going to be great. And just reassuring and always bringing positivity and never showing any signs of, like, stress.
- [21:28]
Mac
You're good at that.
- [21:30]
Jay
Yeah, you have to be. Even if I'm stressed out of my mind, too. But because we've worked with all different kinds of people, so. Yeah. And it's the couple's first time getting married, and nothing is their fault. They really don't know, like, what they're doing. They're relying on all of us to know what we're doing and be the experts. And hopefully that's the case. But sometimes some of us aren't and can let that affect how the day unfolds for the couple. So we just try to be like that source of calm energy.
- [22:03]
Evie McLeod
That's so good.
- [22:04]
Lindsay Roman
That is so good. Well, it's like. It's like the heightened sense of emotions for all personalities on a wedding day, which can go so many different directions.
- [22:13]
Evie McLeod
And I think it's also, wedding days are just a highly anticipated, anticipated, anticipated event for everyone. And so not only is it an emotional day and there's a lot of, you know, moving parts and pieces and timelines and all of that, but I think there's pressure and expectations put on it, understandably, justifiably. So. You want it to be really special, really memorable. You know, all these things and all of that coming together can just create an environment that can be difficult for your couple. And I love that you guys have the approach of, like, hey, we want to reassure them to calm, like, be a calming presence and to do our job staying well in the midst of that. I love it. Okay. I want to pivot the conversation to TikTok, to social media, to what you guys, as you mentioned, was like a key part in kind of finding your style, reaching a kind of a new clientele, showcasing what you're about. All of it. It was kind of seems like all it kind of integral. So a lot of your clips go viral on TikTok is. Is what we've noticed. How. How do you guys go about selecting what you've posted? And do you have, like a ton of strategy? Do you know what you think will go viral? Or is it just one of those things that you're like, I like it. Post it.
- [23:37]
Jay
Does that make sense?
- [23:38]
Mac
So when I'm at a wedding, like I'm constantly listening, like for during the ceremony, any funny parts that I laugh at when I'm there or during speeches, if like someone says something maybe not so nice or like things that are relatable, I think, oh, well, maybe other people will find that funny or relatable to. And then that's how we get our.
- [24:03]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah.
- [24:04]
Jay
And outside of like dialogue, there's also like just things that some couples do that are unique that might inspire somebody to do for their own wedding. Like, I mean, what's an example?
- [24:19]
Mac
Disney themed wedding or.
- [24:20]
Jay
Yeah, just like themed. It's however you want to format it. But anything that just stands out from the norm when we're on the day, like, oh, that'll be really cool. Or if like a four year old was giving a speech or something. Right. It's like, oh, people are gonna think that's so cute. So yeah, she's thinking on the day. I'm not really thinking of that on the day.
- [24:44]
Mac
Like sometimes, sometimes after the wedding when we're in the car, I'm like, Jay, this moment was really funny. That would be a good TikTok, right? Yeah, he's like, I don't know, I wasn't listening.
- [24:55]
Jay
I can't, I'm not. I'm just watching my screen, if I'm honest.
- [24:59]
Mac
Yeah. So I'll come up with like the ideas and stuff and then Jay's really good at executing.
- [25:05]
Jay
Yeah. Yeah. So she'll like, she'll call and she'll make a bunch of projects or timelines with various like TikToks and then I'll go and clean them up. But yeah, it's really just whatever. I think relatability, if we had to put pin it down to one thing, it would be relatability. Like people are going to connect with things that they can see themselves doing or friend or a family member doing. They'll want to share it with them and that's how things will end up going viral. Disclaimer. Really quick about TikTok. For us, we haven't like been posting much at all even on Instagram, I would say over like the last year and a half, two years, we just been in a bit of a funk of just not really having any desire to post. So with that being said, like the things that we did in the past have worked and I think a lot of those things are still true if we were to continue doing them. It's just, I don't know.
- [26:05]
Lindsay Roman
Okay. I love it. I wanna, I wanna Almost bounce off of that. But before we get to. To like industry feeling funk all of the things. Because I think that's very relatable.
- [26:14]
Jay
Yeah.
- [26:14]
Lindsay Roman
So I know you guys film well, maybe I shouldn't assume actually. Well, no, I think I can assume. You film like landscape like a typical movie video. All the right. But on tick tock how it's clearly not landscape oriented. So this is very logistical. But like how would you take a typical like what you're filming throughout the day, unless maybe you are filming vertically. I should just let you answer the question. How do you translate that?
- [26:41]
Jay
Right? We are filming landscape. The aspect ratio up until last year that we filmed in is like 16 by 9. So kind of like what, what you see right here is probably 16x9 or close to it. So you would just essentially make a vertical timeline and then conform the clips. And because I shoot wide enough, I would be on like it's an 18 to 35 but on a Super 35 sensor. So it's the equivalent of like 27 to 52. My clips would be wide enough to fit the main subject in that like vertical 9x16 timeline. And then if we needed to jump to her clip or a tripod, like if it was during ceremony, we could no problem because we had that like wide to carry it through for the most part. But the challenge now in the last year, and this is actually kind of why we've stopped posting on TikTok and Instagram as much, at least vertically, is we, we switched to anamorphic. So anamorphic lenses, in short, compress the image like vertically. And then when you're bringing it into your editing timeline, you need to de squeeze it so it makes it really wide, like widescreen, like a movie basically. Like, you know, the black bars, like some people will just put those black bars and crop their image and they lose the actual top and bottom. But an anamorphic saves all that information, but literally just makes it wider and it gives us cool, really unique look. And that's something that we've changed over the last year because I just love the image. I love the art of it. Like they're fully manual lenses, no autofocus. But with that now, like if I want to use something in that 9x16 frame, it's like a sliver of the image. So it's gotten a lot harder. So we've actually just been posting like just landscape and it's tiny on Instagram or just turning it completely just because it's like it's. Yeah, it's hard to make Vertical work and also look good. But before last year, I mean, if you're shooting six normal 16x9, like, you can make it work if you shoot wide enough. So that's how we were making it work.
- [29:02]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [29:03]
Lindsay Roman
Okay, that's fascinating.
- [29:04]
Evie McLeod
I have a follow up really quick to that. Have you guys found, I'm assuming, based on how you're feeling with social media with this switch to like the anamorphic lenses, have you guys found that posting something either with like, you know, like.
- [29:21]
Lindsay Roman
A black top and bottom.
- [29:22]
Evie McLeod
Yeah, border, whatever. Like a black top and bottom. Like full, you know, wide or turning it sideways with the full, you know. Yeah. Have you guys found that that does not perform as well on social media?
- [29:34]
Jay
Honestly, it just depends. Like, we've had some that are sideways, like where you have to turn your phone. We don't like, put the little thing that says turn your phone, because I think people are smart enough to turn their phone.
- [29:45]
Lindsay Roman
But yeah.
- [29:48]
Mac
You never know.
- [29:49]
Jay
But yeah, we've had some do really poorly and we've had some do really great. And then we've done it where we just post like a normal 16 by 9 and it has the black bar. So it's really tiny in the feed. And that has done better than like some of our vertical, like most of our vertical videos for like a short post that's in those tiny things. So.
- [30:12]
Mac
And you're talking more about Instagram?
- [30:13]
Jay
I'm talking about Instagram. Tick tock.
- [30:15]
Mac
Tick tock. We've tried, like, landscape, Right.
- [30:19]
Jay
Tick tock's the Wild West. You can have so many followers on there, and it literally is. You don't post the right stuff, it's just gonna flop. But. But going back to Instagram. So part of, part of my solution was creating what we call postcards. And we started that sometime last year, video postcards. So we would just post a carousel of videos and put a little border around it. So I'd still be able to show the entirety of these shots that we're really excited about that we captured, whether they're really cool compositions or moments or a mix of both. Both. And so we've been doing that on Instagram and that's actually been doing pretty well. Like, anytime we post those, they tend to do really well for the most part.
- [31:05]
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Lindsay Roman
Is that just me?
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Lindsay Roman
Cool.
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Evie McLeod
I got you.
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- [34:02]
Evie McLeod
That's awesome.
- [34:02]
Lindsay Roman
So you're saying you do, like, a series of videos on a carousel versus making, like, a real.
- [34:08]
Jay
Exactly. And then we put, like, a little white border mat around it just to kind of polish.
- [34:13]
Lindsay Roman
And that, like, hides the aspect ratio.
- [34:17]
Jay
It doesn't.
- [34:18]
Lindsay Roman
It kind of, like, almost makes a.
- [34:20]
Jay
It just makes it. It just makes it stand out a little bit more. Let me see if I can, like. Yeah, I don't know if it'll pick it up, but I don't think it will.
- [34:31]
Evie McLeod
Oh, yeah, but there's, like, a little.
- [34:32]
Jay
White border around it, and so that way we can still post. It's, like, really easy to share because it's. And the clip loop, too, so it's cool. So it's like. Yeah, one of the last ones we posted, like, our groom was going down a zip line, and I started it right as he's entering the frame, and I cut it right as he's exiting. So if you just stay there, he's just constantly zipping through, like, seamlessly.
- [34:54]
Lindsay Roman
That's so fun.
- [34:56]
Jay
So, like, we try to make it very intentional and artistic when we're chopping those up. Not just like, oh, this is a cool moment. Let's put it here. It's like, no, there's. This is a cool moment, and this motorcycle's passing by, and we're gonna cut it right at the begin. And so the motorcycle's just constantly passing by the couple in the back or whatever.
- [35:17]
Lindsay Roman
I love it. Oh, that's fun.
- [35:18]
Evie McLeod
See our creative minds.
- [35:20]
Lindsay Roman
I know, Okay, I want to get into the slump, but real fast. I have another logistical question. When you were in, like, the height of, like, going viral on TikTok left and right, how did you ever. And maybe this was never an issue, but did you ever have pushback from clients or, like, were they always excited to go viral? Were they. Were they like, oh, I'm like, now the subject of something that went viral, but not because of me necessarily, really, like, was. What did you get? Like, client feedback of excitement or, like, any that were, like, oh, I would love not to have that happen or, like, anything like that?
- [35:52]
Jay
A mix of both, for sure. Like, some couples would be super excited about it. Most couples would be super excited about it. And it depends on the context of what we're posting. Like, there's definitely things we probably in the past should not for sure have posted. Not that it's like horrible or anything, but just whether it's. It's just if it's something that we wouldn't want posted of us, then it's probably not a good idea to post it or if it's something that we think is totally harmless. But then the comments come and we're having to moderate all those comments and people are just. No matter what, you can have the most positive thing go viral and somebody will find something bad to say something bad about it. And then there's all those people that latch onto that. That. And then that just becomes the whole comment section.
- [36:40]
Mac
There was this one video that went really, really viral and the person in it was like a teacher or principal. So all the students of that school saw the video and.
- [36:54]
Jay
Right, but that one was. That one was fine. Right?
- [36:57]
Mac
No, they. They told us to take it down.
- [36:59]
Jay
Which one was that one? I don't remember.
- [37:02]
Mac
The country one.
- [37:03]
Lindsay Roman
He's like, there's too many.
- [37:04]
Evie McLeod
I don't remember. We've gone viral too many times. We're too famous.
- [37:09]
Mac
We learned. And we're like, okay, maybe we should send the videos to the couple first. If we feel like it's gonna. Cause.
- [37:17]
Jay
Yeah. And based on the response, like, we'll be like, okay, we're good to go. Or, ah, yeah, that's. We'll just leave it for them.
- [37:24]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah, that makes sense.
- [37:26]
Evie McLeod
That's cool. I feel like that's a really good gauge is what is what you said of like, would I want this posted of myself? And that's an immediate. Like, do I even need to send this to the couple if I don't want it posted? I'm not even gonna send it to them. They don't even need to approve it. That's gotta be a no.
- [37:39]
Lindsay Roman
That's hard though, when, like, on one hand you want the most, like funny or raw or relatable moments. But sometimes what is that could also be tender or private or embarrassing.
- [37:51]
Jay
Exactly.
- [37:52]
Lindsay Roman
It's like the reason why it's going viral is also the reason why it could be embarrassing or ill. Favorable to somebody.
- [37:59]
Jay
I've seen some videos out there that like, I just think to myself, yeah, that sucks for that couple because they probably didn't want that posted. And so that's also why we kind of stopped posting raw moments. Just because, I don't know, the idea of just milking somebody's wedding for content, of course we need to market for ourselves, but it's like where's the boundary? And so we're still trying to figure out that, that out like what is appropriate. And like, like with kids too. Like some people don't want their, their kids or their nephews and stuff posted online. Even if that's a really cute moment, it's like they may not want that moment. Whereas like some people might like we did this wedding with the groom's 10 year old nephew officiated and he killed it. He did such a great job. And we posted that and they loved it. Like he's, they're like, he's going to be an actor one day and he probably is. Like, he's genuinely so confident and just the cutest kid. But I, I sent it to them and I'm pretty sure like we asked if they're okay with us posting it because he is like a kid and they were like, oh yeah, absolutely. So yeah, just trying to find that line where like, what's appropriate to share and what should just be for the couple.
- [39:21]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah, I feel like you as videographers might deal with this more. I just, I think of like contractually, like when I'm sending a contract to a client, there's always a clause in there. And I'm sure you guys have a similar clause for your videography contracts. But it's like basically like by signing this and, and booking me, you agree that I own these photos for you to be video and I have the right to use them for marketing material as I see fit. Like, I feel like a version of that clause absolutely present and almost every photographer or videographer's contract. But it's like, it's like on one hand that covers you like contractually, but it's like almost like the humanity of it. It's like even though I am legally covered to share it, it's like, yeah, the ethics of like, it's like, how do you handle. I mean, maybe that's just been the answer of like you just have not.
- [40:15]
Evie McLeod
Or like.
- [40:18]
Lindsay Roman
It'S made you almost like feel like you can't. Is that accurate to how you're feeling?
- [40:23]
Jay
Sort of like, yes and no. Like we, yeah, you're absolutely right. We contractually can, but just because we can doesn't mean that we should. And then I like, I just, I just think too much. I'm like, what is the purpose of this? Like if we post it and it goes viral, like, okay, sure, drive some traffic to our profile, but at what cost? Like does the couple want this out there. Do they want this to go viral? I mean, don't get me, and don't get me wrong, like, I would love if anything goes viral still, probably. But I, I do have those thoughts whenever we're posting. And like, is this, like, should we post this? We always ask each other, like, is this okay to post? Yeah. So, I mean, at the end of the day, we could always just ask our couples too.
- [41:14]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah, right.
- [41:15]
Evie McLeod
I mean, I feel like that's one of the things, like, like you said at the end of the day. I think if any videographer, any. Anyone is considering posting content, that you might have the slightest hesitation as we're having this conversation. I feel like that's just the beautiful, like, solution or resolution is like, hey, if you have any hesitation or are wanting to just feel totally confident in everything that you post and know that your client's on, send it to your client ahead of time and be like, hey, you know, I want to post this, I want to share. I think people will love this.
- [41:50]
Jay
Exactly.
- [41:51]
Lindsay Roman
I've never thought about, like, I feel like videography. It.
- [41:54]
Jay
It.
- [41:55]
Lindsay Roman
It's so much more intimate than.
- [41:58]
Evie McLeod
Especially because it's mic'd up.
- [41:59]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah.
- [42:00]
Evie McLeod
Because photo is just a different documentation that, like a client knows if they're. If they're getting photos taken when they're half dressed, you know, that sort of like.
- [42:09]
Lindsay Roman
Right.
- [42:10]
Evie McLeod
There's an awareness of like that intimate moment.
- [42:12]
Lindsay Roman
But if they're mic up all day.
- [42:13]
Podcast Advertiser 2
Yes.
- [42:13]
Evie McLeod
I think that's the biggest. Like, it's not just a mic'd up, but it's like.
- [42:17]
Lindsay Roman
And how it's edited.
- [42:18]
Evie McLeod
Yeah. I think there is a slight difference.
- [42:21]
Jay
Of, like, change the feeling for sure.
- [42:23]
Mac
Yeah.
- [42:24]
Evie McLeod
Oh, yeah.
- [42:25]
Lindsay Roman
Well, okay. I want to say I'm sorry. I'm not dominating the question conversation. I keep having so many. When you were posting TikToks regularly, like, did that affect bookings? I mean, I'm sure, but I just want to, like, like how. Because you were like, oh, I would love to go viral every single time. Like, how did you see direct impact from going viral a ton into, like, bookings and inquiries?
- [42:49]
Jay
You want to take that one? We definitely. It definitely. It definitely helped us book. Like, at that time on our inquiry forum, we had like, how did you find us? Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Google, whatever. And we definitely had people reaching out that found us on TikTok. But I would say the real benefit was more so like, grab, like grabbing people, hooking them, and then you funneled them to your YouTube or your Instagram, where they watch the full videos, and then that would lead to booking. So there might be people that like, oh, yeah, I saw, like, your one video on TikTok, and then I went to your profile and watched all your stuff, and it was really great. So they did find us on TikTok, but that's not what convinced them, if that makes sense.
- [43:32]
Evie McLeod
Yeah, yeah.
- [43:35]
Lindsay Roman
Which I feel like that makes sense. It's like the attractor.
- [43:38]
Jay
Having that social proof on TikTok, I think helped us book a few weddings that ended up leading us to booking, like, more weddings in that, like, TikTok space, if that makes sense. Like, we ended up doing this one couple. Their name's Kellyanne and Chase. And then at that wedding, Alex Warren was. At that wedding, he, like, caught the garter. But we also knew Alex from, like, doing this other couple named PK and Mike's wedding. They're friends with Alex. And then this planner that we worked with at this other wedding, her husband is Alex Warren's manager. So it's just kind of all those things, like, they all play a role. So while, yes, TikTok did play a role, it wasn't the only thing that makes sense.
- [44:28]
Lindsay Roman
It, like, gets you in the door or, like, gets you into one client's door, if that makes sense. And then it's like connection and networking from there.
- [44:35]
Jay
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Like, it's not like we're just thriving off of just Tik Tok, but it didn't hurt. It's definitely helped.
- [44:43]
Mac
And you never know who's watching.
- [44:45]
Jay
You never know. Yeah. All it takes is one.
- [44:46]
Mac
People watch, but they don't comment or, like. Or anything. They're just consuming. Yeah, I do that too. And it's like in your mind, like, oh, you saw that video?
- [44:56]
Podcast Advertiser 1
Yeah.
- [44:59]
Lindsay Roman
I love it.
- [45:00]
Evie McLeod
Okay, before we dive, because I really. I. I want. I think we both, we. I think we all want to talk about, like, the slump and content creation and social media as, you know, a wedding vendor and all of this. But last question from me before we do that. What if you guys. Because you guys have clearly built an incredible audience and platform. TikTok and Instagram, you, you know, you have gone viral time and time again. Did you guys have any, like, principles that you kind of followed of, like, key elements of a viral TikTok? Obviously you touched on the. The relatable and surprising as far as, like, the actual content, but was it, hey, we keep it within a certain time frame. Sound is super, like going with a viral audio or, you know, anything. Was there Anything that you're like, hey, keep this in mind when creating.
- [45:49]
Jay
Yeah.
- [45:50]
Evie McLeod
Content online.
- [45:52]
Jay
Definitely. So one, we had like core pillars of content. Like so whether it's like a moment. So funny, relatable, whatever moment. Or maybe it's like they got married in this location, like kind of showing the wedding. So we just had multiple pillars of content. But with each of those pillars there'd always need to be a hook. So like a text hook. Like you won't believe what his best man said and kind of leaving it ambiguous. So it encourages people to watch. But then you need to get to the punchline like almost immediately because people just are so quick to swipe that if you don't grab their attention right away, then you'll probably lose that them. So definitely like the kind of content that you do. So. And then the format. So the hook and the punch. I would say for audio it wasn't as important, especially on TikTok. Like I, I was never consuming TikTok the way she was. So she would know like what sounds are trending and like, hey, we should do like a wedding video to this sound. Because I think it's not. Because just because the sound is trending doesn't mean your video is going to go viral. It's trending because people are watching it because of the trend. So it's like people study algorithms, but it's really just humans. What are we engaging with? So I think it's easy to get caught up in like, oh, I need to be using a viral sound right now or trending sound.
- [47:28]
Mac
A lot of our videos, we just use the straight audio.
- [47:30]
Jay
Yeah. Original audio.
- [47:31]
Mac
Because sometimes the sound drowns out the audio.
- [47:35]
Jay
Yeah. It can take away.
- [47:37]
Mac
So.
- [47:37]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah.
- [47:38]
Jay
Yeah. But definitely the biggest thing if I just had to recommend anything is like a strong hook and a quick punchline. Back when we were posting shorter videos did really well. But I know the landscape has kind of shifted towards long form content as things always change.
- [47:54]
Mac
On TikTok.
- [47:55]
Jay
On TikTok too.
- [47:57]
Mac
Oh.
- [47:58]
Jay
Or yeah.
- [48:00]
Lindsay Roman
I'm wondering if Instagram is gonna follow now that Tick Tock or not. Sorry. Now that Instagram has the 2x feature just like Tick Tock had, I feel like I'm wondering if it'll. It'll slowly infiltrate into. Totally. I think it will Instagram as well.
- [48:13]
Jay
Yeah.
- [48:14]
Lindsay Roman
Because I feel like that was the main reason why no one would sit there and watch a long video and.
- [48:18]
Evie McLeod
No one's gonna watch a 10 minute video at 1x speed. Let's just be real.
- [48:22]
Lindsay Roman
I don't Think Instagram lets you do 10 minutes, you sit and watch.
- [48:26]
Mac
Yeah, I literally.
- [48:27]
Lindsay Roman
Is it like when you're doing your makeup or something? Something.
- [48:30]
Mac
No, it's just like in bed watching this whole thing.
- [48:33]
Jay
I don't. If I'm watching, I'm watching at 2.
- [48:36]
Lindsay Roman
My brain can't.
- [48:37]
Mac
Yeah, she, like, I can't.
- [48:38]
Jay
She'll show me these tik toks and be like, here, watch this. And I can tell it's going to be five minutes and I'm instantly just 2x.
- [48:45]
Evie McLeod
Yes.
- [48:45]
Jay
Because I'm not enough to sit there for five minutes to watch that.
- [48:49]
Mac
I forget you.
- [48:52]
Evie McLeod
I just. Mac. I have to, like, praise your.
- [48:54]
Lindsay Roman
Your patience.
- [48:55]
Evie McLeod
No attention span. Yeah. Maybe because I don't.
- [48:59]
Lindsay Roman
I. I'm like, speeded up.
- [49:02]
Mac
I feel. I feel bad.
- [49:06]
Jay
You're still watching their content. I mean.
- [49:08]
Mac
Yeah, but that's how we're different.
- [49:12]
Evie McLeod
Okay. Yeah, that was. That was perfect. That was such a good. Also explanation of like, hey, here are some core things to keep in mind, but I want to touch on within that. I think it is so, so easy as wedding vendors as. As creators of, you know, a form of content of some sort who are seeking to market our business. Social media is an amazing tool to market. It's free to build client, you know, trust, awareness, all the things. But like you said, it's kind of easy to get burnt out and. Or to feel, like, overwhelmed or this pressure or all this stuff. Are you guys kind of willing to touch on how you're feeling? Because I think that's going to be so relatable to so many of our listeners and just kind of like, wrap up today's conversation with, like, hey, let's.
- [50:02]
Lindsay Roman
Well, especially coming from somebody that has seen lots of success, at least success in the way that we deem just on the COVID of just success, which is, like, lots of views going viral.
- [50:15]
Evie McLeod
Many times, followers, bookings. Yeah, all of it.
- [50:20]
Jay
Yeah. So aside from just, like, general burnout from posting on social media, I just feel like the industry's in a weird spot, like, where we're all prioritizing the wrong things. Like, so much BTS at every wedding, trying to milk as much content out from every wedding, and we're losing our focus and priority, which should be the couple. Um, and along that just comes with, like, why, like, what is the purpose of even, like, posting this? Who are we trying to speak to? And I just see. I feel like there's so much content out there that has. That just doesn't feel genuine. And I don't want to Be. I don't want us to be another, like, couple contributor or another contributor. There you go. Thank you. I don't want to be another contributor to just putting out, like, content that has no meaning or purpose. And I'm not. And this sounds really like, I'm on my high horse. Like, I'm not putting down anybody else's content, but I just don't. For me, for us, I feel like unless. I don't know. I really don't know. I'm trying to figure it out.
- [51:36]
Mac
I think for us, we really, really think about what we're gonna post now, and we just don't post, like.
- [51:44]
Jay
Yeah, and it's. It's a. It's terrible from a marketing standpoint because, like, we should be post much as we want. But I don't want to just be, like, posting like, oh, such a beautiful weekend filming this wedding. And so. And so. Because, like, what if it wasn't. What if I was really stressed the whole time and it was like a nightmare and things were not going great and we did our best to capture what we can for the couple, but there were all these things that affected it, and then it's like, I'm just lying and I can't bring myself to do that. And I don't want to just be saying that for, like, such a beautiful wedding. Filming so and so's wedding at this place, and then it's just the same thing over, over and over again. So I'm just, like, finding it's like a. What is it? There's a word.
- [52:29]
Mac
Common ground for yourself.
- [52:31]
Jay
Cognitive dissonance, I think is the word. Like, if I. If we were to share it, it's not how we actually feel. So I would just really rather not share and just share, like, what we need, what we want to share, which would be, like, those little postcard moments, which I am happy and proud of. Like, we spent a lot of time, like, trying to capture this perfect moment with the best composition possible. Like, things that we are genuinely passionate and excited about and not just posting to post, but, like, could we be doing a lot better as a business if we were to just post and put ourselves out there more like we used to? Probably. But then I. I don't know, like, how. How we would be feeling if we were doing that. And I may turn around and just be spitting out content like crazy next week? You never know.
- [53:25]
Evie McLeod
You never know when I.
- [53:26]
Lindsay Roman
Such as the journey of an entrepreneur where we have seasons.
- [53:32]
Jay
Seasons. Yeah. This is a long. This is a long season. Also, too like, we just had like. I mean, all of our couples are great. Um, but we have had like, a shift where we have been doing more weddings that. So before our couples would find us organically. And they still do. And then that kind of shifted as we entered, like, higher. The higher end market. And then we would get more bookings, like, from planners recommending us, which is amazing. And we're so grateful because that's what allows us to do what we can do. But then the connection with a couple really isn't the there. And it's just like, I mean, it sounds bad, but that excitement isn't there because they're not excited about your work. And so I can go into it as excited, like, as I possibly can. But at the end of the day, there's also a disconnect. Like, they didn't connect with us or our work. We were almost just like a checklist or a check mark off their list. Um, so there's also that.
- [54:41]
Lindsay Roman
Oh, there's so much tea there because I feel like that's even presenting a part of the conversation of like, luxury and. And exactly what you said. Like, the. The higher.
- [54:52]
Evie McLeod
The pitfall of what everyone thinks they want.
- [54:54]
Lindsay Roman
Well, it's like. But that's so true. The higher end you get, the more that the couple just wants to outsource the. The vendor acquiring to the plant manner. And it's like, we talked about this so much just like, as a friend chat of like, when you get into a higher market, it's almost like you have to sell less or like, sell your. It's like, maybe, maybe it's because the money that they're spending on you is a less percentage comparatively to the whole thing. Whereas if you are like the majority of someone's budget, it's like they're gonna make sure that they are picking the perfect person for them. And so their buy in maybe is a little bit more because you're taking up more percentage of the bud versus. And I don't know if that's the only factor, but I feel like there is definitely a situation where everyone thinks that they want luxury and they're trying to get in a high. And not that that's necessarily bad, but there is that, like, slight.
- [55:49]
Evie McLeod
There are frustrations with it in the same way that there are frustrations with every price bracket and every, you know, area of clientele. It's like, yeah, people, you know, well, there's. There's, you know, conversations in the industry all the time about, like, oh, the budget hunters or, you know, whatever. And yeah, there's absolutely frustrations within that market, but there's also really beautiful, really incredible things within that market. And it's the same with luxury. It's like you're, you don't go get off scot free without problems as a business owner or a wedding vendor in the, the luxury market. And I love that Jay, you like pointed out that specific one and the.
- [56:26]
Lindsay Roman
I have such an out of pocket question. Have you ever photographed a wedding that was like photographed. Oh, sorry, video, whatever. You get what I'm saying? Filmed a wedding that, that was, that was so either high end or, or like high profile subjects, a.k.a. like the couple was an influencer or celebrity or of some sort where you, you couldn't share or like contractually you like an NDA. I guess. I don't know. Maybe not.
- [56:54]
Mac
I was just curious.
- [56:54]
Lindsay Roman
That was a very out of pocket question. Maybe you can't tell me.
- [56:58]
Jay
We, we were able to share like a teaser, but we couldn't share their full video. It wasn't an NDA, but we had in our contract like we had to get approval from them before we share. So I guess it kind of was in a way anyways we ended up like we, they never told us we couldn't share the full video. And then when I asked them like, hey, are you guys like gonna post or is it okay if we post? They're like, oh, we actually want to keep this private if that's okay with you. So. And we respected that like totally. It is what it is. It was one that like I was really proud of.
- [57:35]
Evie McLeod
But.
- [57:36]
Jay
But at the end of the day it's like we're not making it just, I mean we're making it for them primarily. And that's the important part. Like we're not making it for us of course. Like we are creatively to fulfill that, like that need and the desire to create, but that's not the primary objective and purpose. So.
- [57:58]
Evie McLeod
Right.
- [58:00]
Jay
So yeah, but that was only once. That was only once.
- [58:05]
Mac
Yeah.
- [58:06]
Evie McLeod
I love it. I love that you guys are just open and honest about something that I think so many wedding vendors feel of feeling just like friction with social media. And there's something that's like difficult or challenging whether they feel like they don't know what to post or they're so busy with this other thing that, you know, posting. And I feel like it's really cool to hear from fellow wedding vendors and filmmakers and videographers who know how to edit, who know how to sync audio, like all these things create you know, Reels and TikTok.
- [58:41]
Lindsay Roman
It's like, arguably, you know, more than most.
- [58:43]
Evie McLeod
And on top of that, then you add into it that you guys have found a rhythm and a success in. We know what pops off, what goes viral. We've, you know, grown a big following. We've amassed, you know, millions of views, all of this stuff. And for you to just openly and honestly, like, come on on a podcast and be like, hey, yes, we're also still, like, things shift. And like, we've, you know, our hearts and minds, like, there's been, you know, a dissonance for us, like you said, like a cognitive dissonance that we've been feeling with social media and what we're creating, and we're still trying to find a rhythm and a groove. I think that's so encouraging and so freeing for vendors. Well, honestly, just any entrepreneur to hear, like, hey, I think most of us feel that at some point or other, for certain lengths of time or other, of just this recognition that social media. I think part of, at least from my perspective, part of why so many of us entrepreneurs feel that in content creation is that social media changes so quickly, so often that it is a constant, ever evolving, ever changing hamster wheel that you have to keep up with. You have to. So it's, It's. It gets exhausting. And I love that you guys are just like, hey, we got burnt out and we're still trying to find, like, what works for us and we're, you know, slowly getting there. I just think that's so cool. And I, I just wanted to thank you guys for sharing that because I think that's really empowering and encouraging for others to hear.
- [60:17]
Jay
Yeah, and you're absolutely right about, like, it's constantly changing. So because we stopped that feeling of, like, getting started again, it's overwhelming. Even though I know the core principles, it's just like, where do you even start? Because there's so much. There's, it's, like, overwhelming. There's so much different kind of content that you can make now, too.
- [60:36]
Evie McLeod
But, yeah, 100% well.
- [60:39]
Lindsay Roman
And even what you said about feeling like showing anything in a season where you're not feeling, it feels like lying and it feels like I'm putting on. I'm adding to the highlight reel. I'm adding to the lie that social media presents, and it's at some point in time, like, I feel like that is such a relatable. Every single person I can guarantee you, that's listening to the show has felt that whether they're an entrepreneur, whether they're a wedding vendor or not.
- [61:04]
Evie McLeod
It's especially hard when you're a wedding vendor and you're showcasing primarily. Like, it's not. It's not like an influencer, where you're building a personal brand where when things feel hard, you can share your own story and your own, you know, whatever. But as a wedding vendor, like you said, if there's a wedding where you're like, I was stressed out of my mind, Things went south. I. I did my job. But, man, I'm telling you right now, like, that was.
- [61:27]
Lindsay Roman
And then it's like Sarah and John's beautiful magic.
- [61:31]
Evie McLeod
You're like, I can't. That's exactly.
- [61:33]
Jay
Oh, my gosh. Yeah.
- [61:34]
Lindsay Roman
Like, this was not beautiful. This was not magical. They treated me like crap. I mean, maybe they didn't, but, like, you know, like, there's so many things that go on that we can't technically share or don't want to. Obviously, it's hard.
- [61:46]
Evie McLeod
Yeah.
- [61:47]
Mac
Yeah.
- [61:47]
Jay
Except on threads, people are like, there's no filter on there. People are people. Yeah. That's a breeding ground for negativity. I try not to go on because it's just people complaining.
- [61:58]
Evie McLeod
But yeah, threads is.
- [62:00]
Podcast Advertiser 1
Is.
- [62:01]
Evie McLeod
I would agree with that. That it's a. That's the wild west, if you ask me. That's crazy out there.
- [62:07]
Jay
If I was a couple looking for a wedding vendor, I would go to that person's threads and see all the complaining that they have to do about weddings.
- [62:15]
Mac
That's so sweet.
- [62:16]
Jay
Yeah.
- [62:18]
Evie McLeod
Hey, anyone listening to this who is actively looking to book? Well, a wedding vendor or any like, business owner. Like, if you're wanting to.
- [62:28]
Lindsay Roman
From like a couple.
- [62:29]
Evie McLeod
I was like, thinking of it from like, hey, if you're looking. If you're an entrepreneur listening to this, looking to book or hire a. A web designer.
- [62:36]
Mac
Uhhuh.
- [62:37]
Evie McLeod
Like, that's actually such a valid point.
- [62:39]
Jay
Yeah. Go look at their unhinged opinions and you see how they really feel.
- [62:43]
Lindsay Roman
And then as a business owner, go to threads and self audit yourself.
- [62:47]
Evie McLeod
Yeah. Maybe put a filter up.
- [62:49]
Jay
Yeah.
- [62:51]
Lindsay Roman
Oh, my gosh, jm, thank you so much for being here. I. I don't want to take your time. I know we've gabbed. It's been so easy to talk to you. We could talk for so long in leaving. Actually, do I have a question here that's like, well, yeah. What's next for you in 2025? Do you have something exciting on the horizon or you vibing? Like, how.
- [63:10]
Podcast Advertiser 1
What.
- [63:11]
Lindsay Roman
How are you feeling about the Future with. With your weddings, the social media we're vibing.
- [63:18]
Jay
This year.
- [63:19]
Mac
Well, my sister's getting married this month. Oh, my gosh.
- [63:25]
Lindsay Roman
Are you filming it or are you in it?
- [63:27]
Jay
She's in it. I'm filming it. Yeah.
- [63:29]
Mac
She's like, I can't have anyone else but Jay and Mac.
- [63:32]
Jay
Yeah. I tried to refer some friends, but she's like, I just want you. So.
- [63:37]
Mac
So our focus has been on that lately.
- [63:41]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah.
- [63:41]
Mac
And then also, you had surgery this year, right?
- [63:45]
Jay
Oh, yeah. So I tore my meniscus. That's kind of why I'm in a funk right now, too. So I tore my meniscus at a wedding in November. Um, and I was like, not. I was walking around with a limp for two months before I finally got surgery. Got surgery in January. Was, like, on crutches for six weeks. Couldn't put any weight on it. So finally getting back into the groove of just like. I mean, we filmed two weddings now that I was able to, but we.
- [64:13]
Mac
We've both been in a funk because of that.
- [64:16]
Jay
But hopefully after turning things around.
- [64:19]
Lindsay Roman
Yeah.
- [64:20]
Jay
Our remaining weddings for this year, we're super excited for. And we've booked someone's next year that we're really excited where the couple, like, hopped on a call with us and they're like, oh, my gosh, I just am obsessed with your work. I feel like we're talking to celebrities, which is always, like, hard to respond to. Like, we're just normal people. But, like, just that excitement and passion about our work makes us super excited going into those weddings. So. So we do have some of that coming up. So we're really excited about that. But, yeah, social media wise, I don't. I don't really have a plan yet.
- [64:58]
Evie McLeod
Yeah, you'll figure it out as you go, right?
- [65:01]
Lindsay Roman
Relatable. Yeah, relatable as heck.
- [65:04]
Evie McLeod
Yeah, I love it. Well, where. Where can our listeners find you, adore your work, connect with you, see whatever strategy and plan rhythm you find on social media in the future. Where can people connect with you guys?
- [65:20]
Jay
Our Instagram is at Jay and Mac. Tik Tok, I think, is Jay and Mac Films. YouTube, Jay and Mac films. Pretty much just Jay and Mac films. Our only one that's different is Instagram. Just Jay and Mac. But, yeah, that's.
- [65:35]
Lindsay Roman
I think that's all awesome.
- [65:37]
Mac
Yeah.
- [65:38]
Lindsay Roman
Well, thank you guys so much for being here and giving us your time and your wisdom. We just had such a great conversation to get.
- [65:44]
Jay
Yeah, thanks for having us, guys. It was great chatting with you both.