Best of The Herd

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Best of The Herd

Original Air Date: June 4, 2026
Host: Colin Cowherd
Guest: Taj Gibson (NBA veteran)

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Episode Overview

This episode dissects Game 1 of the NBA Finals between the New York Knicks and San Antonio Spurs, with deep analysis of team dynamics, the physicality of playoff basketball, Victor Wembanyama's developmental hurdles, the singular leadership of Jalen Brunson, and broader NBA and college football insights. Veteran Taj Gibson joins Colin for a candid, insider conversation on modern NBA culture and the meaning of playing in New York.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Game 1 NBA Finals Breakdown: Knicks Outmuscle & Outlast Spurs

(03:20 – 16:46)

• Narrative: Mainstream coverage painted Knicks’ Game 1 victory as “stealing” home court, but Colin argues it was a deserved win rooted in greater physicality, experience, and execution down the stretch.
• San Antonio’s Struggles:
  • Spurs’ legs were gone in the second half after a grueling seven-game series.
  • Cat and Mitchell Robinson physically dominated a still-growing Wemby on both ends.
  • Spurs shot just 26% from three overall, and a woeful 2/19 in the second half.
• Wemby’s Youth Exposed:
  • “He got pushed all over the floor. He looks like skinny Giannis now.” (04:52)
  • Over-reliance by San Antonio on their 22-year-old star; his inexperience showed under Finals pressure and in how the Knicks attacked him.
  • “Everybody in the Knicks, big old stronger players are getting underneath him and pushing him around. I’m not sure this Wemby is built to beat this Knicks frontline.” (08:47)
• Coaching & Adjustments:
  • Spurs’ missed opportunity: Not playing Dylan Harper late.
  • Knicks’ coaching & teamwork “looked organized…just couldn’t hit shots” even when down.
• Physical Play & NBA Finals Officiating:
  • “The NBA is going to allow you to be physical in the Finals…that plays to the Knicks advantage here.” (04:45)
• Knicks’ Depth & Villanova Connection:
  • Knicks’ Villanova trio’s +/- of +39 lauded as evidence of a “very collaborative” group. Josh Hart’s all-around impact (15 rebounds, 4 steals, led in assists).
  • “Gotham City may have needed Batman, but they also had a police department…can’t all be Batman. Can’t all be Wemby.” (07:37)

Notable Quotes:

• “There was no stealing. They were clearly better energy, better team down the stretch.” — Colin Cowherd (03:33)
• "I’m not worried the slightest.” — Victor Wembanyama postgame (09:47)
• “When the Villanova trio was on the floor, the Knicks were plus 39.” — Colin Cowherd (11:37)

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2. Concerns for Key Players and Adjustments for Game 2

(09:50 – 16:46)

• Jalen Brunson’s Health:
  • Brunson was “banged up twice,” which could influence future games.
  • Knicks need to manage his minutes to avoid burnout as the Finals grind continues.
• Spurs’ Strategy:
  • Next step: “Throw the kitchen sink at Brunson, make somebody else beat you.”
• Statistical Trends:
  • When guarded by Cat, Wemby shot 2-for-11.
  • Knicks dominate late-game offense; are “the best ever” in the fourth quarter by some measures.
• Coaching Commentary:
  • Spurs' coach Mitch Johnson questioned for being outcoached in second half: “They were outscored… 57 to 40. The Spurs didn’t have one fast break basket in the second half.” (14:51, paraphrased)
  • Johnson suggests new defensive matchups are needed for Game 2.

Notable Quote:
“There are some things when you watch the first game of a finals or the first half of a Super Bowl, you see certain things and you can’t unsee them. Wemby being pushed around on both ends…” — Colin Cowherd (16:23)

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3. Wemby’s Offensive Limitations & Team Dependency

(22:05 – 25:37)

• Body and Play Style Analysis:
  • Colin discusses how Wemby’s high center of gravity allows defenders to move him off his spots; compares to Giannis’ developmental curve.
  • Wemby is a finisher, not a playmaker (“not Jokic”); Spurs offense is semi-dependent on his supporting cast making shots.
• Wemby’s Self-Awareness:
  • "I was bad tonight…it’s not more complicated than that...I’m not worried.” (09:33, repeated in 25:19)
• Recognition of Spurs’ Issues:
  • Both host and guest note that if Spurs simply shoot better—a reasonable expectation—Game 2 could look different.
  • However, even when trailing, “the Knicks looked in control.”

Notable Quotes:

• “For his size, he is so graceful. For his size, he handles the ball well. For his size… Well, the size makes him incredibly dominant on the defensive end. But you are what your body is, and you are what your game is.” — Colin Cowherd (22:08)
• "When he drives into traffic, he can be a turnover waiting to happen.” — Colin Cowherd (22:13)

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4. College Football: Notre Dame’s Scheduling Woes & Playoff Dynamics

(26:39 – 32:07)

• Financials & Coaching:
  • Notre Dame has the money and coaching but is struggling to find quality “dance partners” (i.e., elite scheduling opportunities) as conference power consolidates.
• Playoff Urgency:
  • Notre Dame supports the expanded 12-team playoff largely out of necessity, as they risk schedule irrelevance if top teams won't play them.
• Broader CFB Realities:
  • Power programs are consolidating; Notre Dame may be forced to reevaluate independence.

Notable Quote:
“Notre Dame’s not…they got the money, they got the coach, they just can’t find dance partners.” — Colin Cowherd (31:29)

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5. Taj Gibson Interview: Physicality, Knicks Culture, and Basketball Wisdom

(32:16 – 46:50)

a. NBA Experience & Finals Physicality

• Taj endorses Colin’s “men vs. kids” view of Game 1: Knicks’ strength and east-coast mentality are major advantages.
• Spurs’ exhaustion after playing OKC is acknowledged, but Taj expects a harder San Antonio effort in Game 2.

“That’s New York style basketball…This group’s been through a lot of tough battles…that kind of makes you that kind of team.” — Taj Gibson (33:05)

b. Cat’s Defensive Emergence, Brunson’s Leadership

• Karl-Anthony Towns’ development and defensive growth highlighted (“he’s so determined…never celebrates, so hungry”)
• Taj always believed in Jalen Brunson’s potential, citing his influence from his own father and Villanova roots.
• New York fandom described as “so in your face…they’re gonna let you have it, and that fourth quarter…the fans are even tougher to play in front of” (35:19)

c. Knicks’ Unique Chemistry Despite Trades

• Knicks built through trades/free agency but have “family” culture; contrasts with drafting teams like the Spurs.
• “When you go through those pains and ups and downs, you get even stronger. I believe this year those young men have just been through so much and I’m so happy for them…” (37:31)

d. Wemby’s Game & Future Potential

• Taj: Wemby’s talent means he can “do everything,” but sometimes Spurs rely on him too much.
• Predicts future growth: “The sky’s the limit for this kid…he’s going to learn to take advantage of his matchups…” (38:52)

e. Point Guard Leadership & Comparisons

• Brunson’s late-game control praised; Taj compares Knicks’ deference to Brunson to past teams with stars like Westbrook, Derrick Rose.
• “Your point guard is your leader…when you play with fearless little point guards like that, you just let him go.” (40:35)

f. Draft Prospects & Skill vs. Athleticism

• Cam Boozer’s skills discussed; Taj values basketball IQ and humility over pure athleticism—“A lot of basketball is knowing how to play the game.”

g. Longevity, Leadership, and Veteran Value

• Taj reflects on playing into his forties, mentorship, and filling Haslem-like locker-room roles as the NBA gets younger.

“Just being an older guy in the locker room and giving your 1-2 to the younger generation, they always appreciate that, because…I’m really not in competition with anybody. The more you give, the more you receive.” (45:46)

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:52 | Colin | "He got pushed all over the floor. He looks like skinny Giannis now." | | 08:47 | Colin | "Everybody in the Knicks...are getting underneath him and pushing him around." | | 09:33 | Wemby | "I'm not worried the slightest." | | 11:37 | Colin | "When the Villanova trio was on the floor, the Knicks were plus 39." | | 14:51 | Mitch Johnson | "They were outscored…57 to 40...the Spurs didn’t have one fast break basket..." | | 16:23 | Colin | "Wemby being pushed around on both ends…you can't unsee them." | | 22:08 | Colin | "For his size, he is so graceful...Well, the size makes him incredibly dominant..." | | 25:19 | Wemby | "We let that one go…that’s an experienced team…they know how to play with momentum." | | 31:29 | Colin | "They got the money, they got the coach...they just can't find dance partners." | | 33:05 | Taj Gibson | "That’s New York style basketball...this group’s been through a lot of tough battles." | | 38:52 | Taj Gibson | "The sky’s the limit for this kid, man...Through this playoffs, he’s been proving..." | | 40:35 | Taj Gibson | "When you play with fearless little point guards like that...you just let him go." | | 45:46 | Taj Gibson | "Just being an older guy in the locker room and giving your 1-2 to the younger gen..." |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Game 1 NBA Finals Breakdown: 03:20 – 16:46
• Wemby’s Offensive/Defensive Discussion: 22:05 – 25:37
• College Football Playoff / Notre Dame Talk: 26:39 – 32:07
• Taj Gibson Interview: 32:16 – 46:50

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Tone & Style

The conversation is fast-paced, candid, slightly irreverent, but also deeply analytical—mixing stats, locker-room insights, and big-picture perspective. Both Colin and Taj combine storytelling, insider knowledge, and accessible sports debate in the show’s signature "opinionated" style.

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Summary

This episode offers a comprehensive, energetic postgame breakdown focused on the Knicks’ depth, grit, and collaborative identity, the Spurs’ inexperience and overreliance on Wembanyama, and the physical realities of playoff basketball. Special emphasis is given to leadership, chemistry, and the divergent paths through which teams build championship contenders. With Taj Gibson’s veteran wisdom and Colin’s astute, unfiltered takes, listeners gain both tactical analysis and a sense of NBA culture and tradition. The show closes with valuable big-picture perspective for basketball and football fans alike.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio at noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

[Fox Sports Radio Promo Voice]

This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio.

[Colin Cowherd]

Here we go. It is a Thursday. Game 1 NBA Finals is in the books. New York steals home court advantage. Wemby wobbly reading a headline this morning. The Knicks steal game one. There was no stealing. They were clearly better energy, better team down the stretch. So you don't want to overreact to game one. Okay? The spurs in the second half did not have their legs. Their shooting was atrocious. They came out of a grueling seven game series. They did not have energy in the fourth quarter. They just, I mean the numbers tell you they fell off a Cliff in the fourth quarter, shot 26% from three in the game night, two for 19 in the second half. They had no legs left. Okay? So I'm not going to overreact to game one. They did generate seven more unguarded catch and three catch and shoot threes. This couldn't hit any of them. So they, they generated all sorts of good looks. They air balled open jumpers. But here's the thing. I'm not sure this Wemby, 22 years old, still growing, still developing his body. I'm not sure if he can handle the strength, the girth of Mitchell Robinson, Cat no G. I think he may need another off season and another 15 pounds. He got pushed around on both ends. He got pushed all over the floor. He looks like skinny Giannis now. Giannis about year five, it didn't look the same. And I'm, I'm, I look at Cat. Say what you want about Cat's defense. He was incredibly sturdy on the defensive end last night. And Mitchell Robinson is 7ft tall and 245 pounds. That is, that is man strength. That is years in an NBA weight training program. Both ends of the floor, they are pushing Wemby all over the place. OG we talked about OG yesterday. He's got a lower center of gravity. Well, when you're 7 5, everybody's got a lower center of gravity. And Cat was pushing him around. Mitchell Robinson was. Now listen the spurs are going to shoot better again. They were generating good catch and shoot looks more than the Knicks. And Dylan Harper will play more late in the game. Hey, dear and Fox, that's not it. Get Dylan Harper in the game late. That's bad coaching. Get him in the game so they will improve. And let's not go crazy, but you watched what I watched. The Knicks were an older team. We knew it. A more experienced team. We knew it. But even when they were struggling in down 13, they looked organized. They didn't look chaotic. They just couldn't hit shots. I thought the spurs looked young and a little frustrated at times. Disorganized, way too frenetic. I mean we've all been asking ourselves. It's kind of been the overarching theme all season long. When does the dynasty start for San Antonio? But there is a reason. You have to go back to the 70s and the Portland Trailblazers. There hasn't been a team this young to make the finals in 50 plus years. And last night that was on display. They looked young, they played young. And even though they came out of that grueling seven game series and they were, they, they, they, they should have been better in the fourth. Like I understand being tired, but they're deep and they're young. A lot of young legs. Some of it may have been nerves that can SAP energy. I think some of it is. We all know this. The NBA is going to allow you to be physical in the Finals. We talked about this all week. The NBA's always swallow the whistle in the Finals. Well, that plays to the Knicks advantage here. They got more big, strong old guys in the front line. So you know, and you could say, and I also thought San Antonio was way too Wemby reliant. And you could say, well, the Knicks are Brunson reliant, but they're not on the defensive end. They need Wemby to dictate defense and offense. And they're asking Wemby to now play twice as many minutes almost as he did in the regular season. Remember, he was playing 27, 28 minutes in the regular season. Now you're talking mid-40s and he's got to dominate both ends. It's not that Brunson takes the defensive side off, but I mean they've got Josh Hart and Bridges OG and Mitchell Robinson. They got bodies. They don't. As long as he plays hard, stays in front of his guy. They're fine defensively. So I mean Gotham City may have needed Batman, but they also had a Police department. Somebody had to write some speeding tickets. It can't all be Batman. It can't all be Wemby. You gotta give me something else besides Wemby because on the defensive end, he's. Knicks are just making U turns like nobody wants to touch him. And he really moves. Wemby really moves on the defensive end. But I, I mean I'm looking at these fourth quarter numbers. Energy, Knicks production, Knicks efficiency, Knicks. So I'm not, I don't want to go crazy, but can this Wimby, 22 year old. Wimby who? Everybody in the Knicks, big old stronger players are getting underneath him and pushing him around. I'm not sure this Wemby is built to beat this Knicks front line. And that may sound hyperbolic, but I watch what you watch the refs. Remember in New York, the Knicks will get even a better whistle, right? Like you go home, you get a little better whistle at home. Here was Wemby after game one defeat.

[Wemby (Victor Wembanyama)]

Every team guards differently. You know, I'm gonna figure it out. It's. Yeah, I mean, I was bad tonight. It's not more complicated than that. We've been down in a series before. Never in the finals, obviously, but I'm not kicking myself about anything really. I mean, I'm not worried the slightest.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, I'd be over. I'd be worried the slightest. I'd be worried a little. You just lost home court advantage. So my only concern with the Knicks, Brunson got banged up twice. Kind of random. He got banged up twice. You know, he probably going to be a little sore for Friday. The other thing is, you know, the spurs now you can't watch that game and come to any other conclusion than this. Throw the kitchen sink at Brunson, make somebody else beat you, throw every. And Stefan Castle did a good job. But the Knicks are setting so many screens with so many. I mean, Josh hart may be 6, 5. He plays like a power forward. And here's the other thing. You gotta keep Brunson healthy. And some of it's random, but you gotta keep him fresh. And he took 31 shots last night. And the question is, because we've seen bigger guards like Luke and James Harden run out of gas when they're jacking up 30 shots early in the series. And this is the finals. Now this is not the East. This is the finals and it's going to be a super physical series. So are you going to get 31 shots in this kind of great fourth quarter play in game six or game seven? Here's the good news for the Knicks, they use, I mean, Josh Hart. They have so many complimentary pieces. Josh Hart led the knicks in assists, 15 rebounds, four steals. And that's the thing where it felt like it was all Wemby Bridges, Josh Hart, the Villanova guys last night. And I think this is a real thing. When the Villanova trio was on the floor, the Knicks were plus 39. And so there's a lot of takeaways in this game last night. One of them is how complimentary the Knicks are. Cat playing defense, all the assists and steals from Hart, Bridges, I mean, he finally missed a free throw. Bridges played well. Just so many different guys, many of them Villanova guys. Very much a collective, very collaborative. I do worry because I think San Antonio is going to throw everything at Brunson. I think they. I mean, if you watch that game, Mitch Johnson's watching the tape on that. With a team, you got to get Brunson off his spots. You got to push him into places he's uncomfortable. He got good looks now. He also hit a couple of tough shots, but he was getting too many good looks. It's not, it's not just keeping him healthy. The Knicks have to maintain the ability to let him be off ball in key spots. Going to need more scoring, maybe more. More ball in the hands of Cat. But Cat last night felt like to me, his role was to bang on Wemby. That's what it kind of felt like last night. Their assignment last night for the Knicks was we'll give the ball to Brunson late, but we're going to make a statement against Wemby. And boy did they. Here's Jaylen after the win.

[Jaylen Brunson]

Is a mixture of us playing a defense and us obviously getting a little lucky, but they come ready to play more than any other team that be faced. It just goes back to having each other's back. You never know it's really gonna happen. And so being together on the court and players are gonna happen, you can't really script what's really gonna go on. Just making sure we're going out there playing for each other.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, Wemby Last night was 2 for 11 when guarded by Cat. So the formula for the Knicks was let's get off first. Six, seven minutes. Okay, we're rusty. Let's get off to a really intense start. Refs let them play. Knicks did. Knicks are going to win the fourth quarter in this series. That's another downside for the spurs since they've been keeping track of fourth quarter offense like The Knicks are the best ever. This is, this team is so good. Late in games now, it was compounded because the Spurs, I mean, they didn't have their legs. It was real. They were airballing three point shots and maybe it's nerves, but I think by the fourth quarter, you, you're at home. I don't think nerves, I think it was just they were exhausted. So now you, everybody's on equal rest. That should change Friday. J. Mack, I think you and I both, because I, I followed you last night. I think both of us came to the conclusion that Knicks had much better energy late in this, they all had great energy in the first half. Second half, Knicks had much better energy. But were you at all concerned with San Antonio looked kind of disorganized offensively?

[Mitch Johnson (Spurs Coach)]

Yeah, I mean, we talked about this briefly. I think Mike Brown has a big coaching edge here. And Mitch Johnson, I didn't like what he did in the second half. Did you notice they got outscored in the second half, 57 to 40? You know, you talked about running out of gas, but like, the Knicks were like, hey, we've got to get back in transition defense. The spurs didn't have one. Fast break basket in the second half. 14 points in the first half. Fast break, zero in transition.

[Colin Cowherd]

So that was only the Knicks fourth game in 23 days.

[Mitch Johnson (Spurs Coach)]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

So, I mean, you could see it. Both teams had great energy in the first quarter, flew by. It was, I mean, it was so much defense and body. But in the second half, you could see it. San Antonio just wilted. And again, we're giving the Knicks credit for it. But San Antonio was generating good looks and was missing them big, badly.

[Mitch Johnson (Spurs Coach)]

I don't think you can underestimate Colin, the, the mental and physical wear and tear from that Thunder series. That was grueling, the flopping, the arguing. Wemby not talking to the media like that was everything. That was kind of their Super Bowl. Did you see the Knicks are now favored in the series? They're favored to win the NBA Finals. Now, I think that might be a bit of an overreaction, but I, I,

[Colin Cowherd]

it's hard, it's hard not to come to this conclusion. Age, size. I mean, you're talking OG Josh Hart plays like a power forward. Cat Mitchell, Robinson Styles make fights. We wanted to watch game one.

[Mitch Johnson (Spurs Coach)]

Do you think they'll pull Wemby off, Cat? Because I don't think that's a good matchup for Wemby. He was getting blown by. And like you said, the bout, the body blows all night he was just settling for threes. I think Castle is probably going to end up on Wemby now. He's given up a lot of size, but he's sturdy and strong because I

[Colin Cowherd]

don't think Wimble is going to end up on Cat. You mean Castle will end up on. On Cat?

[Mitch Johnson (Spurs Coach)]

Yes.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. There's some things when you watch the first game or the first half of a Super bowl, you see certain things and you can't unsee them. Wemby being pushed around on both ends again, it's. It took Giannis about five years to look like the current Giannis. I don't know if this Wemby is built for this front line.

[Unidentified Short Interjection]

Wow.

[Colin Cowherd]

I mean, listen, Josh Hart is six, five. That dude is.

[Mitch Johnson (Spurs Coach)]

He led the game in rebounds and

[Colin Cowherd]

assists for the Knicks and steals. And I mean, he, when you look at him, you think, oh, that's like a two, that's a three. He plays like a power forward.

[Drink Champs Podcast Host]

So good.

[Mitch Johnson (Spurs Coach)]

Best glue guy in the league. Love him.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. Stefan Castle on Cat is probably the call. So. All right, we got something else that, that I think is watch. We've said it about Cat all year. He's not a refined offensive player yet. He's 22. But I have a question long term about Wemby's offense. Next in the hero.

[Fox Sports Radio Promo Voice]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Subscribe hit that thumbs up icon and comment away.

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[Colin Cowherd]

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Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news.

[Colin Cowherd]

What's the news? Huge news.

[Jonas Brothers]

We created our own podcast called hey Jonas.

[Colin Cowherd]

We invented a podcast.

[Jonas Brothers]

Well, we didn't invent it. We. We just contributed to it.

[Colin Cowherd]

First people to do podcasts.

[Jonas Brothers]

Pretty. Yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts, but this one's extra special.

[Colin Cowherd]

So how did we.

[Jonas Brothers]

How do we actually come up with the name hey Jonas? Guys, I honestly don't remember.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think it was on a call

[Jonas Brothers]

about what we should call it, and,

[Colin Cowherd]

well, we were thinking.

[Jonas Brothers]

I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, hey, Jonas. Offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that. Guys, listen to hey Jonas on the

[Colin Cowherd]

iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jonas Brothers]

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

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June is Black Music Month, and on the Drink Champs podcast, we're speaking with the hottest names in the culture, like Swae Le.

[Taj Gibson]

Do you realize how legendary you are?

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I appreciate that I be seeing it, but I'm like, man, I still got, like, so much more to do. Like Princess. He dropped like 30 albums. We dropped like five right now. That's the rate we gotta be going.

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Yeah, that's a good attitude.

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You'll also hear stories from industry legends and hip hop pioneers like Fab five Freddy.

[Unidentified Short Interjection]

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Which one?

[Unidentified Short Interjection]

One love.

[Colin Cowherd]

Wow.

[Taj Gibson]

Yes.

[Unidentified Short Interjection]

I literally filmed in his apartment in Queensbridge. His moms were still up in that apartment. Nas was just beginning to take off. His pops used to live near me in Harlem. His dad and introduced him to a whole lot of, you know, conscious stuff. And he made a young prodigy.

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[Colin Cowherd]

You know, a lot of times when people talk about Wemby, they're like, for his size, he is so graceful. For his size, he handles the ball well. For his size, well, the size makes him incredibly dominant on the defensive end. But you are what your body is, and you are what your game is. There are downsides to almost every NBA body. And at 7 foot 4, for instance, when he drives into traffic, he can be a turnover waiting to happen. Or the fact that you can get him off his spots because he has a very high center of gravity. Knicks did that all night last night. So I'm not questioning how great he is. I would have voted him mvp. But, like, prime example is Anthony Davis, the former Laker. Like, he didn't love being outside shooting threes. Why? Because he had such a strong base, 12 to 15ft, you just. He was. He could back you in and get a basket. Conversely, Kevin Durant has lived on the perimeter. Why? Thinner player, knows his body. So players, to me, when I watch Wemby, he is very comfortable, sometimes his most comfortable being outside on the perimeter because he knows his body, he knows he can get pushed around and. And you can move him off his spots. So, you know, LeBron had the perfect body. Six, nine, fast, could finish at the rim, could beat a guard off the ball. Never a great three point shooter, but good enough. But that, that's an outlier. Like, there are limitations to even Steph Curry. Magic Johnson, at six, nine and a half, was not a great defensive guard. He had limitations. And we look at Wemby and a lot of the things we say about him is, oh, the size on the defensive end, I don't doubt any of that. But offensively, not only is his game lacking a certain veteran refinement, he just needs more touches, more games. Is he is semi dependent on others. He's not a play initiator. He's a finisher. He's not Jokic. Jokic is a better shooter, he's a better play initiator and he's a finisher. Wemby's a great finisher. Offensively, he's not really a play initiator. He is dependent on somebody breaking down the backcourt and getting to the rim. He is dependent on his guys shooting threes. I mean, part of last night's ugliness for the spurs is they got looks. They couldn't hit any shots if they hit six more threes. I may be saying today it's the best player I've ever seen. But he is a little dependent on others finishing what he initiates, you know, and. And he can finish without the ball, but when you drop people on him, he'll dish that ball to the corner if you're not hitting those shots. That offense for the spurs, it is ugly. Here's Wemby. Why did they blow game one? His thoughts. When did you feel like things were slipping a little? Was it quick or was it just simply just. They just started making more shots. Was it something just simple?

[Wemby (Victor Wembanyama)]

It was quick. I think. I think we let that one go. I mean, we let them get an offensive rebound. So that's on us. And after that, that's an experienced team. They know how to play with momentum. And we had the momentum until late in that game. This is why I said we let that one go.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen, the spurs can say this. We're not going to shoot that poorly. We're going to play Dylan Harper down the stretch. We got great looks, more unguarded catch and shoot threes than they did. But you know, you start watching this and even when the Knicks were trailing, you felt like they were in control. You know, you're crossing your fingers on Brunson's health. And a lot of the times when the Knicks were out rebounding San Antonio, it wasn't particularly close. Like Wemby was being completely boxed out. It wasn't like they were tipping it around and battling for it. I mean, that the Knicks built a nice little cushion underneath and it was on all sides. OG here, Cat there, Robinson there, Josh Hart there. Not that easy to penetrate. So it felt very Wimby dependent last night. From me, maybe it feels different if they hit six threes, but they were air ball and open shots last night.

[Fox Sports Radio Promo Voice]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am

[Colin Cowherd]

Pacific if you want. I tried. You know, Ted Cruz was involved. So I try not to spend too much time on it, the college football stuff. And Nick Saban went out and said, you know, it's, it's a runaway train. How much money do you have to spend to compete for a national championship in football? The number's about 35 to 40 million. There's the number, it's about 10 in basketball. What's interesting is, you know, college football most of our lives, Notre Dame has been very, very influential. They're the best program that's not entirely a member of a conference. They're a partial member in the acc, which they'd be better served maybe being a full time member of the ACC because, you know, I'm listening to their athletic director talk. Notre Dame does not have a money problem. According to a general manager, college teams now have general managers. In college football. Notre Dame is a big time spender. Lsu, Texas, Texas Tech, Ohio State, Miami. Notre Dame is right up there with them. They also do not have a coaching problem. Marcus Freeman to me, is as good as any coach in the country. So Notre Dame's got the money, right? Notre Dame has got the coach, right. Notre Dame's problem is they can't find any dance partners and Pete Bavakwa knows it. So that's why when USC pulled out, or whoever did pulled out of the game, they panicked and signed BYU. BYU is fine, but BYU is not a top 15 player. Look, since the Big Ten in the SEC have added Oregon, Washington, USC, Texas, Oklahoma, they won't play Notre Dame out of conference. So if you look at Notre Dame schedule right now, they have 12 games and only one elite team on that schedule won Miami. That is a must win game for them. They have to win that game. I don't care how badly they box everybody else's ears. You lose to Miami at home, how much credibility do you have? You could drop 10 spots in the in the playoff rankings if you lose at home to Miami. So you conversely, look at Ohio State schedule. Six legitimate programs on their schedule. Texas, Illinois, Indiana, usc, Oregon, Michigan. Don't kid yourself. Belem has built a real team in Illinois. Did you watch them in their bowl game? USC schedule, Oregon, Washington, Penn State, Ohio State, Indiana. I won't even count UCLA though. People think they're going to have a good year. Five legitimate programs. So it's really interesting, when we're talking about the College Football Playoff, you're going to notice Notre Dame is a huge proponent of it. And the reason is in a 12 team playoff, they can't Find dance partners. That's why USC has all the leverage here. USC does not need Notre Dame. USC is not anti Notre Dame. Jen Cohen likes Bavaqua and they like Notre Dame. They wouldn't mind playing them, but they're going to play them on their terms. They're not playing in October. They in between the Hoosiers, the Buckeyes and Oregon. They're not doing it, nor should they. It's dumb. So I find Notre Dame's essence, Notre Dame fascinating in the new College Football Playoff. They want a massive playoff because they are struggling to find dance partners. And if it's only going to be a 12 team playoff, two of those going to two lane and Notre Dame guaranteed one. If they're in the top 12, nobody's going to give them out of conference game. Why would you look at Ohio State schedule? Now people could say, well, Notre Dame has Texas scheduled. That game, I've been told is completely fluid and it's 50, 50 at best. It will come to fruition. Ohio State, Texas, that game's going to be played. Notre Dame, Texas, that is. I, I am assured that is fluid. So and, and, and that look, that game is like 28, 29. It's a way down the road. Dabo Sweeney, who plays Notre Dame, I think they have a five year contract. He's not a fan of Notre Dame.

[Unidentified Notre Dame Commentator]

It's just the way it is. But I've always like, I mean we're three and one against Ohio State, we're four and two against Notre Dame. I mean Notre Dame has their own TV station. They, they make their own rules, they print their own money. They got like a money machine in the backyard or something.

[Colin Cowherd]

There's so much animosity for Notre Dame. But I, I'm not listening as much to the animosity. I'm looking at the reality, which is Notre Dame, they're not, you know, this whole thing about super conferences, they're kind of rolling their eyes. They don't want any part of that. They like, they got the money rolling, they got the coach, they got everything. They just can't find dance partners. Yeah, Notre Dame, Texas. I just looked it up. Tentatively scheduled. I mean folks, if you're tentatively going to a party with friends in two years, that you might as well cancel it now. You're not going.

[Fox Sports Radio Promo Voice]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio Apple.

[Colin Cowherd]

And with that, Taj Gibson. I love bringing guys on who have been in this league for 20 years. Taj has been in the NBA 17. He's a former USC Trojan. In fact, I think he played Kevin Durant in the tournament years ago. Former Nick, former Bull. Taj is joining us now live on a Thursday. Taj, I gotta tell you, you guys who have been in this league forever and you probably privately talk about this, you know, I look at San Antonio, those are kids. Those are 20 year old kids. Did you see what I saw last night was that was kind of men versus kids physically. And the refs let you play in the finals, Taj, they're going to let you bang around. I think that's a big, a big advantage to the Knicks, is it not?

[Taj Gibson]

Yeah, but that's the new, that's New York style basketball over the last couple of years. That's all you understand, that's all you kind of know. This group's been through a lot of this tough battles and I think east coast kind of makes you that kind of team. I wouldn't give so much slack to San Antonio. They just came off a tough series with Oklahoma City, even tougher opponent. So I look forward to them playing even stronger in the second game.

[Colin Cowherd]

When you face a Wemby. Last night he even struggled to get rebounds. I mean, they were on him, grabbing him. Is there a matchup against Wemby? Would you like Cat last night? I thought was really good defensively, you know Cat, you played with Cat before. Were you surprised how well Cat matched up to Wemby defensively? That surprise you?

[Taj Gibson]

Not really. Just Cat. This all Cat altogether. This whole year through the times I've been talking to him, he's grown so much as a player and as a mature adult. And I can tell, I can see it in his eyes. Even when the last time I played him in Memphis, he's just so determined. And you can tell with this group of guys, they had that attitude this year. You can tell by each game, every time they don't even celebrate, that's how eager and how hungry they are this year. And I'm just so proud of him because you can tell he just sees that they have a real shot this time.

[Colin Cowherd]

Did you think Jalen Brunson was ever gonna be this great?

[Taj Gibson]

Be honest with you. Yes. Cause his dad was my veteran. I was with his dad almost every other day. His dad took me, really taught me the rope. So being in that culture, his dad always had me watching his game. So even from Bellanova, just going to the games on the road, watching them win, and to do it not once, but twice in NCAA with the same group of guys. And then to see them where they're. You got to understand how tough it is to play in New York City, but to have the whole city believing in you right now after so many years, come on, Colin, you got to give it to the kid. Got to give it to him.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. What makes New York different? You've played for eight different teams. Why is New York different?

[Taj Gibson]

Because the fan base, the fan base is so in your face, everywhere you go, from morning to night, they're gonna let you have it. And then, you know, everybody knows whoever plays in that, in the Knicks, for the Knicks in the Garden that fourth quarter, the fans are even tougher to play in front of. So to have that crowd going for you, to believing in you, and now the whole turnaround, like, you gotta understand the streets of New York really believe in this team. The whole quick turn, the whole turnaround is just awesome. And they really got people believing, even myself, and I'm extremely proud of him in the whole team.

[Colin Cowherd]

So Tibbs is known as a defensive coach and he is a great defensive coach. He gets let go. They bring in Mike Brown and yet their defense has been excellent this year. Does that surprise you?

[Taj Gibson]

Because you got to think about it. Mike Brown's been proven. I remember playing against Mike Brown my rookie year when he was with the Cavs and all the, all those things he had to deal with back then. It's his time, man. I truly believe it. He has a good group of young men that's ready to believe and ready to win now. And it's always tough when you go from a hard nosed coach to a coach that a lot of people don't kind of understand and kind of see his philosophy. But it's panning out just great and it's a huge story and a great success for the future. I'm extremely proud of coach Mike Brown, man. He's been taking a lot of punches to the face and keeping a strong smile. And the way he's been leading this Knicks group is something special.

[Colin Cowherd]

Taj. The spurs are built on the draft. I mean, they got Dylan Harper, they got a Wemby, Keldon Johnson. It's a draft and develop lottery pick team. The Knicks traded for OG and traded for Cat and trade. They're built the opposite. So a lot of times when you draft and develop and guys grow together, they're very close. The Knicks came from all different places and yet they're crazy close. That, I mean, you've been on so many Teams explain to me. Maybe it's the Villanova guy thing, but the Knicks feel so close, despite the fact they didn't grow together like San Antonio.

[Taj Gibson]

Well, you gotta think about that culture, just being with the Knicks so many years. That culture, that Leon Rose and that whole front, front line of different individuals coming together, including Tibbs. That culture just came together as a family. If you look deep into it, everybody's really connected through the years, from the past to present to now, and it's a real family there. Even from the years I was playing there, guys has got tighter and tighter and they go. When you go through those pains and ups and downs, you get even stronger. And I believe this year those young men have just been through so much and I'm so happy for them because you understand the blues and your head coach last year, to go through the ups and downs for the summer and then to come back even stronger this year in front of that New York crowd, you got to tap, you got to tip your hat. So got him.

[Colin Cowherd]

So. So Wemby obviously is such a devastating defensive player. I mean, you could see the Knicks doing U turns, you know, he just literally, not only does he block four shots a night, he'd block eight if people challenged him. Offensively, though, in my opinion, sometimes he spends too much time away from the basket. I'd like to see Wemby, I mean, I don't need him planted within four feet. Do you worry sometimes that, I mean, I guess it's the NBA, but that he's become sometimes too much of a perimeter player? Or is that okay for you?

[Taj Gibson]

I like it and I don't like it sometimes because he's so talented. Sometimes we forget like, he can do really everything and we want to see him do one thing sometime they just win the game, but he's, he's out there trying to make all his teammates better at the same time because at times they rely on him so much or even on the defensive side, because when he's out there on the defensive end, he's. He's coming from the three point line to block a shot. So, yeah, I think with the games going on, he's going to learn to take advantage of his matchups because knowing that Mitchell, Robinson and Cat are two different big men, but the sky's the limit for this kid, man. He's the only game that will keep getting stronger. And through this playoffs, he's been proven and proven and proven because going against Oklahoma City was tough enough. But we're going to see what else he has to prove now against this tough New York Knicks group.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, to be an NBA player, you have to be so gifted, so good. Every NBA player was not only the best in his high school. Most of you were the best in your county, many of you were the best in your state. And yet Jalen Brunson, the smallest Nick, in the fourth quarter, the team just like parts the sea. They just let Jalen take over. I think that's harder than people think. I mean, the Celtics have Brown and Tatum and sometimes I'm not sure who's getting the ball and do they love each other. It is interesting. Maybe it's because he took a team friendly deal that lets other guys get paid. But to be so the team, the Knicks are so willing to, to let their little guy take over set screens, do the dirty work. I mean, it's. Is it like that with every NBA team you've played for where, hey, he's our scorer, let him get his. It just feels like the Knicks are different that way.

[Taj Gibson]

Well, I played like that on two teams. One with Oklahoma City with Russell Westbrook and one with Derrick Rose where we just let him go. And when you play with fearless little point guards like that, that's just, that's just the old world because those guys are your leaders. Your point guard is your leader. You got to always run on your point guard. And one thing about being around jb, he's a pure leader. He's a real point guard because he always know how to talk to everybody from top to bottom to make sure everybody's in their spots. And you see him always talking to Jose on the sideline. He's just a great leader. And I'm just, I'm just astonished and glad that he's turn into the same kind of player that his dad was always preaching about growing up.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, it's funny, you played for Memphis. They have the third pick. They have the third pick. You played with Carlos Boozer. His dad, many think they're going to draft Cam Boozer. And I heard a criticism of Cam Boozer. People said, well, he's not super athletic. And my take is, well, is Luca. I mean, is Jalen Brunson the best athlete? Like he knows how to play basketball. That's what I care about. When you, I mean, tell me you. And when I watch Kam Boozer, I see Carlos, Carlos wasn't the most athletic guy. Talk a little bit about Carlos and Cam Boozer because sometimes I think in the NBA we think everybody's this 10 star athlete and a Lot of basketball is knowing how to play the game. Your thoughts on Cam and Carlos Boozer?

[Taj Gibson]

First, I got to say, shout out to Memphis and Zach Kleinman and the whole front office. They got. They got a big decision to make. It should be exciting. It should be really exciting for the city of Memphis. But again, but your question with Carlos, he's just a great guy. He's a great teammate. And just being around his kids back then and to see the way that all of them basically turned out, even Cam, the being a superstar kind of player that he's been coming to, I'm just so happy for him. He's a super humble player, super humble kid he's been winning from for forever. So you can't, you can't really miss with this group of guys coming into this draft, in my opinion.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, finally, you are 41 at the end of the month. LeBron is 41 now. You're the second oldest player I know. So you don't. Yeah, you don't need the money. You've had a great life, but you obviously love basketball, and it's an amazing life. There was a story a couple of days ago that came out from a reporter who's a very trustable guy. Tim Kami has been covering the league forever, and he said, just keep your eye on LeBron and the Warriors. He loves Steph, he vacations with Draymond. The Lakers have to sign Austin Reeves, and LeBron doesn't want to be the third option. Could you see, I mean, you've bounced around. Could you see LeBron playing and saying, I got one year left, I'm going to go play with Curry. I always wanted to play with him. Does that sound crazy to you or not?

[Taj Gibson]

It really doesn't. Because the NBA is all about surprises. Our league's been growing. Our league keeps fans entertained. And it's all about LeBron. He has. What more does he have to prove? He's a superstar talent. He's been holding our league down for so many years. We just give it up to Bron, man. Let him pick his, make his choice and let's ride out with it. But I would hope to see him back with the Lakers. I think that's a good fit for him. But we'll see. The NBA is always a special time and look forward to hearing some special news come real soon.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, by the way, why do you still play at 41? You just. Just love. You just love drive.

[Taj Gibson]

To be honest with you, the phone calls, this is, keep coming all through the years when I When I was. Even when I was playing with the Knicks, having Leon call me off the couch to come and tell me that you have a couple minutes for me. And I was always thrilled with that whole aspect of guys calling me and being ready to come in and play. I'm just following my path. I came into this league around older veterans, great guys, always passing the game on. And whenever I get a phone call, I always chuckle. I always call Tibbs. I laugh about it. And I always. He always told me I would be one of the last guys to be standing from the team to keep trying, to keep playing. He always told me, you'll have a long career. And I always smile and I'm like, you really think so? And each year I get the phone call and they're like, do you want to come? And I'm just like, this is insane. And that's why I'm like a Hats off to the NBA. Hats off to my agent, especially. But Colin, I don't take it for granted one day. I don't take it for granted. I'm just. I'm just enjoying it.

[Colin Cowherd]

You're a little. You know, you donis. Haslam is another guy that's been doing this for. He did it forever.

[Taj Gibson]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

And he loves it. And by the way, there is value as the NBA gets younger, there is value on older guys who now who know how to the weight room practice. Do the young guys come to you? Now, you may not love the same music, but do the young guys ever come to you and ask you questions about the league and travel and nutrition and stuff like that?

[Taj Gibson]

All day, every day. It's a part of the job. But I love it, though. This is my life. This is what I came into doing. I love working out. I love staying in shape. I love coming around the organization. I just love being amongst the guys. It's like every time I thought I was done and I got another team that called me and said, we got an opportunity for you. Each time, they always told me, just be yourself. Because all I knew how to be was myself. I'm not trying to be anybody else, and it always worked out for the best of me. But just being an older guy in the locker room and giving your 1, 2 to the younger generation, they always appreciate that because at the same time, I'm not in competition with anybody, and I really care about my teammates. And that's what I learned through this league, is always each one teach one. The more you give, the more you always receive. And I'm a real strong believer in that, and my career is a testament to that.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, your nicknames are hard hat. I mean, you're a guy that puts in the hours and you put in the time, and it's a pleasure talking to you, Taj.

[Taj Gibson]

It's a pleasure. It's a real, real pleasure. Thank you, Colin. It was a real, real pleasure. Thank you.

[Colin Cowherd]

You bet. So. No, it's. There is something about playing in New York. You know, I remember during a lot of the great Laker teams in the 80s and 90s, I can remember watching the games and thinking, the way they lit the forum, you could see the faces because there are all these movie stars. And I always used to think, I can't see the faces when I watched other teams, when I watched the Laker games. You ever noticed that in New York, it's the same thing. You can see, like, seven rows deep. The way they light. It feels like it's different. And part of it is they want it to feel big. You know, they want to send the message out. This is a great place to play for free agents in the league, but nothing against San Antonio. But I wasn't watching the fans last night when. When they play at Madison Square Garden. I mean, I'm just, you know, Brunson's driving by, and I'm, like, checking out the fans. It's like it's a who's who. It just feels. It feels very lakers. Jack Nicholson, 1980. Good stuff. College Gibson.

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