Best of The Herd

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd: Best of The Herd – May 27, 2026

Episode Overview

On this “Best of The Herd,” guest host Jason McIntyre (in for Colin Cowherd) is joined by Rachel Nichols, NBA veteran Al Harrington, and US soccer analyst Mo Edu. The episode dives into critical NBA playoff storylines—especially Victor Wembanyama’s struggles and the Knicks’ remarkable Finals run—before breaking down the US Men’s Soccer roster and the looming World Cup. Throughout, McIntyre keeps a lively, optimistic tone, mixing sharp criticism with unfiltered sports optimism.

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Major Discussion Points

1. NBA Playoffs: Victor Wembanyama’s Vanishing Act (03:12–07:20)

Summary:
Jason McIntyre opens with a "bummer" about Victor Wembanyama's poor Game 5 performance for the Spurs vs. Oklahoma City. Expected to carry his team, Wembanyama delivered only 4-15 shooting, 6 rebounds, and failed to assert himself, even ducking media after the game.

Key Points:

• Wembanyama, expected to replicate earlier heroics, was “downright invisible.”
• Spurs’ role players (e.g., Champagne) saw more early action than Wemby, breaking game plan expectations.
• Wembanyama faced extreme physicality from OKC, including aggressive defense tactics.
• Despite the loss, McIntyre reiterates hope for a Spurs bounce-back (Game 6) and maintains Wemby is still the league’s best player, despite the flop.

Notable Quotes:

• "I'm a truth teller. I'm not going to hold back. Wembanyama was terrible, I'm disappointed in him." – Jason McIntyre (05:10)
• "He no showed last night… ducked the media after the game. Like, Victor, what's going on?" – Jason McIntyre (05:00)
• "He didn't get on track early. 4 of 15. I get it, Hartenstein's gooning him up and you got Chet Holmgren stepping on his foot... they're pulling out all the tricks." – Jason McIntyre (08:00)

Timestamps:

• [03:12] Wembanyama criticism begins
• [05:10] McIntyre’s “truth teller” stance
• [05:34] Al Harrington and Mo Adams on officiating and Wemby’s offensive role

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2. Oklahoma City Adjustments & Spurs’ Missed Opportunity (05:51–09:50)

Summary:
McIntyre contrasts OKC's effective response to Chet Holmgren’s earlier struggles with Spurs’ lackluster support for Wemby.

Key Points:

• OKC “force-fed” Holmgren, who responded with his best game of the series (16 points, 11 rebounds).
• Role players’ performances (e.g., Caruso’s 22 points in Game 5) are pivotal in playoff series.
• The lack of complementary play for Wemby underscores Spurs’ bigger issues.

Timestamps:

• [05:51] Holmgren gameplan analysis
• [08:50] Role of Champagne and team dynamics

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3. NBA Finals Bound Knicks: New Leadership, New Results (18:05–24:12)

Guest: Al Harrington (NBA veteran)

Summary:
Al Harrington joins to discuss the Knicks' transformation under coach Mike Brown and their Cinderella run to the NBA Finals, highlighting Karl-Anthony Towns’ evolution and Jalen Brunson’s leadership and unusual financial sacrifice.

Key Points:

• Coach Mike Brown is credited for unlocking the team’s offensive and cultural transformation, mirroring Steve Kerr’s impact in Golden State.
• Karl-Anthony Towns has become a playmaker, not just a scorer, drawing comparisons to Draymond Green’s versatile role.
• Jalen Brunson’s decision to take less money enabled key roster moves, solidifying his status as a Knicks legend.
• The “winner” quality of Brunson is dissected, emphasizing the intangible factors that analytics can’t capture.

Notable Quotes:

• "Mike Brown... has championship pedigree. He knows what it looks like, and how to bring the best out of them. That’s what he’s done here in New York." – Al Harrington (19:19)
• “He [Brunson] decided he thought about legacy. He said, ‘If I can win a championship in New York, nobody can tell me anything.’” – Al Harrington (21:44)
• "Analytics can't quantify heart, desire. And I think that's what separates this kid from everybody else." – Al Harrington (23:23)

Timestamps:

• [18:05] Al Harrington’s favorite NBA stops
• [19:19] Knicks coaching change impact
• [20:31] Towns’ new role
• [21:44] Brunson’s financial sacrifice
• [23:23] Defining a “winner”

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4. Flopping and Officiating Issues in OKC-Spurs Series (24:47–27:49)

Summary:
Annoyance over increased “flopping” and perceived referee bias, particularly towards OKC at home, is discussed candidly.

Key Points:

• Flopping is recognized as bad for the game but is rationalized as seeking every competitive advantage.
• Generational differences are debated—older players viewed the NBA as a more physical "gladiator" environment.
• The longevity of stars like LeBron and Steph is seen as positive for the league.

Notable Quotes:

• "The flopping is an issue... but that's how the refs referee." – Al Harrington (25:25)
• “All we could do is just talk about our old war stories, but it's just a different time." – Al Harrington (26:12)

Timestamps:

• [24:47] Flopping debate
• [26:03] Player/era perspectives

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5. SGA’s Playoff Struggles and Wembanyama’s Fatigue (27:49–30:47)

Summary:
Debate on whether Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (SGA) is getting exposed, and a nuanced look at Wembanyama’s struggles, with consensus that the Spurs must find more scoring balance.

Key Points:

• SGA’s efficiency is down (regular season: 55% FG; series: 38% FG), yet remains vital offensively.
• Wembanyama is acknowledged to be human—fatigue and elite defending are cited as factors.

Notable Quotes:

• “I know we call him an alien, but I think for some reason he's actually human. Guys get tired, you know what I'm saying?” – Al Harrington (29:39)

Timestamps:

• [27:49] SGA efficiency critique
• [29:39] Wemby humanized

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6. LeBron vs. Jordan, and LeBron’s Future (30:47–32:29)

Summary:
Classic debate: MJ or LeBron? Al Harrington picks Jordan, but believes LeBron will play at least one more year, suggesting a poetic return to Cleveland.

Key Points:

• Jordan’s aura is “untouchable” for Harrington.
• LeBron’s brand, desire for a “farewell tour,” and fit with Cleveland are anticipated.

Notable Quotes:

• “It's Michael Jeffrey Jordan. I wore the shoes. I'm bald like him still. ...I think next year [LeBron] should try to find a way to end his career in Cleveland.” – Al Harrington (31:03)

Timestamps:

• [30:47] Jordan vs. LeBron debate

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7. US Men’s Soccer Roster & World Cup Hype (09:50–13:12, 35:51–47:10)

Guests: Mauricio Powell (US Coach, via excerpt), Mo Edu (USMNT alum and FOX analyst)

Summary:
McIntyre shifts to soccer, trumpeting optimism for Team USA’s World Cup chances despite public skepticism and recent losses. Guest Mo Edu analyzes the final roster and tactical implications, and both look ahead to group stage hopes.

Key Points:

• Very little “drama” in roster selection, though Diego Luna’s absence is noted.
• Mauricio Powell (coach) and Mo Edu both emphasize belief and energy as crucial for team and fans.
• Christian Pulisic’s goal drought is a concern, but confidence remains high that he’ll be ready for the World Cup.
• Likely tactical setup is a 3-4-3, with emphasis on pressing and creativity to solve compact defenses.
• The opening game vs. Paraguay is critical; the home crowd could be a decisive factor.
• Edu predicts with conviction that the US will not only advance but win the group.

Notable Quotes:

• “I think it's important to really believe in that sport. The first thing is to believe and then to work really hard to try to earn what you want." – Mauricio Powell (USA Head Coach) [10:30]
• “I'm not worried about Christian [Pulisic]... He's delivered in big games before. ...I'm sure he's going to lead this team in the right direction.” – Mo Edu (45:12)
• "Are they getting out of the group stage? US. Okay, thank you. Confirming. Yes, 100%. Lock that in." – Jason McIntyre & Mo Edu (47:01)

Timestamps:

• [09:50] USMNT roster overview
• [12:06] Pulisic’s excitement
• [36:25] Mo Edu shares 2010 World Cup memories
• [37:30] Edu’s roster/tactics analysis
• [45:12] Pulisic faith reaffirmed
• [47:01] US group stage predictions

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Jason McIntyre, on Wemby’s Game 5:
  “I’m not going to sit here and blast the officiating, right? 31 free throw attempts in the second quarter. Really? Now we're not going to talk about the flopping... I’m a truth teller.” (05:10)

• Mauricio Powell (USA Coach):
  “What I can tell to the fans, believe in that team and be with us and translate the energy that we need…” (10:30)

• Al Harrington, on Jalen Brunson's legacy:
  “If he leads us to this championship...puts him in the conversation of potentially the greatest Knick.” (21:44)

• Mo Edu, on US World Cup optimism:
  "They’re getting out of the group, and I’m going to go as far as to say they win the group and that sets the stage for some really amazing things..." (47:01)

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Timeline of Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------| | 03:12 | McIntyre’s opening; Wembanyama critique | | 05:34 | Al Harrington and Mo Adams on officiating/Wemby | | 09:50 | US Men’s Soccer Roster talk | | 12:06 | Pulisic’s message | | 18:05 | Al Harrington joins; Knicks’ playoff run | | 24:47 | NBA flopping and officiating discussion | | 27:49 | SGA struggles, Wemby fatigue | | 30:47 | LeBron vs. Jordan; LeBron’s next move | | 35:51 | Mo Edu talks US Soccer, 2010 World Cup | | 37:30 | Roster tactics; Mo Edu analysis | | 45:12 | Pulisic form addressed | | 47:01 | Bold group stage prediction for US |

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Tone & Style

• Optimistic but honest—criticism tempered with hope (especially in Wembanyama/Spurs and US Soccer discussions)
• Analytical, yet conversational—mix of hard stats and personal anecdotes
• Lively banter between host and guests (especially with Al Harrington and Mo Edu)
• Emphasis on “legacy,” belief, and the intangible qualities that drive champions

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Conclusion

This "Best of The Herd" captures the full spectrum of modern sports talk—from blistering NBA takes and player psychology, to deep soccer analysis and pre-World Cup hype. No topic is sugarcoated, but every topic—no matter how critical—is delivered with a mix of accountability and belief in greatness, whether for the NBA’s newest stars or the US men's national team. If you missed the episode, you’ll walk away informed and energized about the biggest stories in basketball and soccer as the summer hits its stride.

Transcript

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Jason McIntyre]

This is the best of the Herd

[Mo Adams]

with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio.

[Jason McIntyre]

Hello and welcome to the Herd. It's a big, big Wednesday show. It's me, Jason McIntyre, still in for Colin Cowherd, joined by Rachel Nichols. Folks, we got the USA Soccer roster for the World Cup. Get fired up. I know people are down on Team USA. I'm gonna be Mr. Positivity. Big things ahead. Huge Patrick Mahomes news. Chiefs fans are stoked. I mean, folks, we got a I'm a monster show. Unfortunately, I gotta start with some bummer of a news. It's not great. And it's my guy, Victor Wembanyama. He was downright invisible last night in game five in Oklahoma City. Victor Wembanyama. Listen, this is not the guy we expected to see. We expected to see game one, Victor Wembanyama. Remember when he had 41 and 24? We expected that last night of game five. This was the biggest game of Victor Wembanyama's career to date. Okay? Game five is huge swing game in every series, memorably. That's when LeBron James hung 48 on the Detroit Pistons way back when and carried them to the victory. You know, game five on the road, you got to show up. And I don't know what happened to Victor Wembanyama last night. Guys, I'm not going to sit here and blast the officiating, right? 31 free throw attempts in the second quarter. Really? Now we're not going to talk about the flopping from Jared McCain to Caruso. We're not doing the flopping, okay? Unlike a lot of, you know, folks out there, they. They just want to ride for their guys and their teams and their politicians. They refuse to admit when someone makes a mistake. I'm out here to tell you I am Mr. Victor Wembanyama. Rachel loves him as well. We are huge fans. I believe he's the best player in the league. He no showed last night. 4 of 15, really floating around the three point line. Missing all your threes. Six measly rebounds. Listen, some people could call it, call it like they see it. That's me. That's what I do. I'm a truth teller. I'm not going to hold back. When Minyama was terrible, I'm disappointed in him. And then he ducked the media after the game like, Victor, what's going on? I don't know if this was immaturity. I don't know if this is just. He's disappointed in his play. I don't know if it was overconfidence, but here's Steph Castle first talking about the officiating, which I'm doing my best, guys. I'm doing my best not to talk about it. And then obviously, Mitch Johnson chiming in on Wembanyama's no show.

[Al Harrington]

The way they guard, how physical they are. We don't get that same luxury to be able to play as physical on the other end. At times, he's got to take more

[Mo Adams]

than 15 shots, even with the free throws.

[Al Harrington]

And yeah, he's going to have to score more than 20 points for sure.

[Jason McIntyre]

I was unclear what the game plan was, so on Monday, you know, coming off the game four, I came out and I ripped Chet Holmgren. Oh, my goodness. It was, you know, OKC fans were not happy with me, but again, they didn't want to see the reality. Chad Holmgren had been terrible through four games. What did OKC do? They came out, they force fed Chet Holmgren in the first quarter. They were running plays for him like he's an all NBA player. He had eight points in the first, like seven minutes. I mean, Chet was finding matchups. He was getting busy. He had his best game of the series, 16 and 11. Good job. Mark Dagnal. Hey, we see our guys struggling. Remember SGA had that great quote about how do we get Chad involved? He's like, I'm not sure they got Chad involved. Excellent. I called out Alex Caruso, who's been one of their best players in this postseason. Okay, Alex Crusoe had zero points and one field goal attempt in game four. He bounces back in game five, was their best player, 22 points, four threes wreaking havoc at the defensive end all over the glass. Caruso was unbelievable. They bounced back. I don't have an explanation for what happened to Wemby. I don't know. There is a, you know, a line of thought. Jay, hey, he's a young guy. You know, this is his first postseason. Can we. Can we cut him some slack? I don't know. How do you go from 41 and 24 in the opener to last night? I mean, yeah, they wanted to get champagne. He started he had been in a major funk from three, and they need him to win this series. Role players are key, as you're seeing with OKC. Okay, Jared McCain, Kayson, Wallace, everybody's delivery, so they get champagne. He started early. I think he had 13 of their first 16 points. But when you're doing that, Wemby wasn't getting touches. Everybody on the court for the spurs took a shot before Wemby took. Took one. And like, I'm sorry, but that can't happen. He didn't get on track early. 4 of 15. I get it. You know, Hartenstein's gooning him up and you got Chet Holmgren stepping on his foot and yanking his arm like they're doing. They're pulling out all the tricks. And the spurs take a tough loss. However, it's not over. I'm not here to tell you it's over. Game six. I don't know if you guys are watching the lines. Spurs opened at two and a half. It's up to three and a half. All the sharp big money is on San Antonio to bounce back. Zigzag theory, obviously, and then it will come down if they win to game seven. And that's where, you know, I don't expect Webinator to put it up a donut now. SGA struggling. We'll talk about him later. I know he ended with a. Oh, he scored a lot of points. Jason, SGA is really struggling. We'll get to him later. I don't think it's over for the spurs, but Wemby, you gotta be better. My man. All right, let's move on to the USA Soccer team. I am very excited for the World cup. We are inside. Three weeks to go. I believe it is 16 days to USA Paraguay in the opener. And the USA announced their roster yesterday. Not a lot of drama, right? I would have liked to have seen my guy, Diego Luna make the team, but, you know, he's a great story over the last five years. There wasn't room. They've got to have a lot of attackers. I understand that. But when you look at the roster as we have it on the screen here, there really wasn't any drama. This isn't like the NCAA tournament where how could you leave out the Minnesota Gophers? There's none of that here. Okay? The England national roster. I know Colin cares deeply about England. They had massive controversy last week. Usa, Not a lot of controversy. The problem, of course, is that soccer fans nationwide are down on this team. Hey, they're 6,000 to 1 to win. The World cup, they got no shot. Take a deep breath, okay? I'm that guy a year ago on this show who said, hey, I know. The Knicks just lost to the Pacers. It was a brutal, brutal defeat in six. They had home court. How could they lose that? Let's not go for Giannis. Let's go. Let's not go for kd. We're going to be fine. Trust the process. They replaced the coach, kept the roster. They're in the NBA Finals. I'm here to tell you guys, I'm a believer in this team. And it's not just the fanboy in me. I am a bit. I do like to nerd out around the World cup. You know, I. Doing all these picks in my newsletter and I. I really have been doing some granular detail. We're in excellent shape. So if I believe, you should. Here's our head coach, Mauricio Powell, about why you need to believe in the squad. I think it's important to really believe in that sport. The first thing is to believe and then to working really hard to try to earn. What do you want? And American people always is about to dream, is about to do the impossible. And what I can tell to the fans, believe in that team and be with us and translate the energy that we need. Because I think to create that energy in between the team and the fans is going to help us to earn what we want. Now, we have a couple soccer guests lined up this week. Maurice Adu will join us. Final hour. A great guy, knows a lot about this USA team. I'm willing to come out and say, and I know. Jason, Jason, Too much, too hot takes this week. You said this is the greatest Knicks team ever. I stand by it. I think this is the best collection of talent we've ever had. You know, I'm sure some people will dispute that, but, folks, you look at the roster and where these guys are playing, it's not even close. We have an unbelievable team now. Our star is in a bit of a funk. And there he is on the screen. Christian Pulisic. I get it. Sports are. What have you done for me lately? And the USA National Team in 2026 is 02. You know, we got drubbed by Belgium, okay? And then we lost to Portugal. And the Belgium game was horrific. I remember that second half. I'm pulling my hair out. I'm not going to call out players. It's too early for that. I'll save that for the morning meeting. Listen, I. I do think they're going to Be okay. But we got to get Pulisic on track now. He's in a bit of a funk himself. I believe it's 16 games scoreless streak for him with AC Milan. USA national team hasn't scored in forever. I mean, I don't even think there were tariffs in the United States the last time Pulisic scored. Like CP we got to get it together here. He is talking about the team and the squad and the excitement now that we got the roster.

[Mo Adams]

I'm so proud to represent this country. And, yeah, I'm gonna do my best to make you guys proud.

[Jason McIntyre]

And I'm just thankful for.

[Mo Adams]

Thankful that you guys support me.

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, I'm trying to take it

[Mo Adams]

all in and enjoy the moment as best I can. It's another World Cup. There's no need for extra motivation. But having my friends, my family around and just being on home soil, it makes it just that much more special.

[Jason McIntyre]

Listen, I'm here to tell you, you know, you can lock it up right now. We're beating Paraguay, okay? We, by the way, we smoked them five one in a friendly. I know it was a friendly back in November. They had largely their A team. We were experimenting with a lot of B team players. We're beating Paraguay. I don't. I don't know that we're going to destroy them, but you can destroy somebody. One nothing in soccer, believe it or not. Australia, we got that. The Turkey game. A little dicey out here in L. A, but I'm of the belief we get out of the group stage, okay? And I do believe we will pick up another win after that. I'm. I'm going to pump the brakes at that point. You don't want to look too far ahead. One game at a time, right? Let's slow the roll. But I do believe this is the best squad we've ever put together. I think the coach will get it right. I really like our attackers. The midfield is so formidable. Defense has some holes. I think they'll be okay. But again, I'm just preaching patience and positivity. The two piece and Pochettino, right? We got the three P's and Pulisic, we got four P's. There we go. Very excited for the World Cup. All right, Coming up next here on the Herd. Listen, guys, big NFL news. Patrick Mahomes returned to the field yesterday. So much for this whole. Hey, hey. Mahomes are going to start the season on the PUP list. That's just not happening. He's on the field. And have you seen the odds in the AFC West. What's going on there? We'll talk about that next year on the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. This is Rob Parker, and I'm here with an important public service announcement. Whatever you do, do not listen to the Paulie and Tony Fusco Show. Fox Sports Radio asked me to do a promo, but I'm here to do a no Mo, as in don't don't listen to this show. No mo, the host of two fools from Philly who have the dumbest takes ever in all of sports talk. And you know, if I'm saying that, they must really be bad. I have no idea why Fox Sports Radio picked this up, but I know where to put it down. In the trash can. So please don't listen to the Paulie and Tony Fusco show. No way, no how.

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always have a few financial goals and a really smart one.

[Jason McIntyre]

You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day.

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[Jason McIntyre]

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And we trust you to make smart decisions.

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, after all, you listen to this show.

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[Jason McIntyre]

welcome back to the herd. Great guest coming up right now. Played in the NBA for a while. He was on some okay Pacers teams, some rotten Knicks teams, but man, what a career. Al Harrington joining us. Al, of course. Gonna break things down. Western Conference finals, NBA Finals. Al, I'll start with this. You can. You played for many, many teams during your 16 year career. What was your favorite stop among all those?

[Al Harrington]

It had to be Indiana where I started. You know, I think I had the most success there. You know, went to two conference finals. Went to the finals, you know, in 2000 against, you know, Shaq and Kobe. The first championship they got there. So when I just think about just, you know, winning and being part of, like an unbelievable culture, Indiana, I would say, was, you know, my favorite stop. But my second favorite stop was playing for New York. You know, I grew up a Knick fan. You know, me getting, you know, getting traded here was like, for me was the most exciting time for me. It was during a time when like, nobody wanted to play for the Knicks, I think, except for me. But, you know, unfortunately, you know, we didn't have a lot of success the two years I was here. You know, I guess, you know, we were rebuilding, you know, waiting for the Carmelo era and Amar' e Stoudemire era. But, you know, those would be my Two stops. That definitely stick out for me.

[Jason McIntyre]

Nice. All right, let's start with the Knicks. They are finals bound. They have put on one of the greatest stretches in postseason history. 11 straight. They are going to be underdogs in the finals regardless if it's spurs or okc. But I'm just curious. This change from Thibodeau to Mike Brown. I can't recall a time, I guess you'd have to go back to Mark Jackson to Steve Kerr, where a coaching change just dramatically changed the fortunes of a team.

[Al Harrington]

Yeah, I mean, you have to go back to that, you know, And I always say, like, you know, some of these coaches obviously, you know, they can kind of get to a certain point, but then you kind of need something kind of brand new to kind of get you over the hump. And that's what Mike Brown has done here. You know, I actually played for Mike Brown in Indiana as well. You know, he was assistant coach there. So, you know, I have a relationship with him and I know that he's always been a brilliant offensive mind. I think obviously as a head coach, he's had a lot of success. I mean, this is his second Finals, right. He took a young Cavaliers team to the finals before. You know, he's had some success in his other stops. And then he was in Golden State for forever, where they won a couple championships as well. So he has championship pedigree. He knows what it looks like. He knows what to expect from players and how to bring the best out of them. And that's what he's done here in New York. And look at it now. We headed to the finals first time in 20 plus years.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, the Karl Anthony Towns transformation is killer. I mean, unbelievable. So Thibodeau, you know, he went through Brunson Cat averaged 1.3 assists in the postseason last year. This year he's up to six. I've kind of likened it a little bit to what Steve Kerr did with Draymond Green with the Death lineup. And, you know, Draymond was kind of a point center, if you will. Do you see a similar transformation in Towns?

[Al Harrington]

I do, honestly. And it's funny because, I mean, I don't remember early in the year it seems like, you know, Mike Brown and Karl Anthony Towns was butting heads a little bit. And I think maybe it might have been Mike telling him, like, yo, stop focusing on only scoring. You can make plays for this team. And I think he finally woke up as this playoffs got going and. And I think you see he actually enjoys this role. He likes Playing the facilitator. He likes throwing his little no look passes and stuff like that. And then when you think about it, you know, with Jalen, it just makes him so much more dangerous where, you know, all ten eyes aren't looking at him. Every time he has the ball now he's moving, he's cutting, he's finding open spaces to score. And that just makes the team so much more dangerous.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, it's, it's weird. We looked at the salaries. So Brunson took less, $113 million less on his last contract with the Knicks. Listen, I'm not getting in anybody's pockets, but that sacrifice, Al, you could make the credible argument that that enabled them to sign OG to the big deal. To, to absorb Carl Anthony Towns via trade and pay his salary without going into the second apron. I mean, he's the third highest paid player on his team now. That's kind of sacrifice is, is not really the usual we see in the NBA. I don't know, I'm just curious your thoughts on, on him taking that much money. Less.

[Al Harrington]

I mean, this kid's different. You know, most players, I would say 99.9% of the players wouldn't even consider doing that. But obviously, you know, this kid obviously had a different goal in mind. You know, I think he decided he thought about legacy. He said, if I can win a championship in New York, nobody could tell me anything. You know, and I honestly believe that if he leads us to this championship one, it puts him on the Mount Rushmore of all time. Knicks. But it definitely puts him in the conversation of potentially the greatest Knick, you know what I'm saying? With the impact that he's had over this short amount of time, especially when you think about when he got here, nobody wanted him. Everybody thought he was extremely overpaid. You know, obviously people say that he's too small and you know, and that's a real thing because we've seen historically small players being your best players usually doesn't win you a championship. But he's changing the, he's changing the narrative on all of that. And when you think about, just look at his overall career, just in his life in regards to, he won a state high school championship with a team that people didn't give a chance. He won a national championship in college. Now he's in the NBA playing for one of the, for the world's greatest basketball team in the world's greatest city. And he got him on the cusp of winning the championship. So, you know, this kid is special. And the thing, the sacrifices that he's made, definitely should put him in that, on that Mount Rushmore for, you know, for New York Knicks fans forever.

[Jason McIntyre]

It's interesting. We're in an analytical era and you mentioned the small guards. Yeah, we talked about it earlier. I don't know, it almost feels like there's something about Brunson you can't quantify. You mentioned, like, he's a winner. Like, you could throw that around, but we're in an analytic era right now where all they care about is stats. I'm just, how do you quantify winner? Like, what is that mysterious quality that Brunson seems to have?

[Al Harrington]

It's just results, you know, it's just no matter what, no matter what the situation, the scenario, no moment is too big for him. This kid is ready to step up and take over games and he's willing to do like kind of whatever it is, whether it's scoring, whether it's a last second pass, you know, even defensively. Obviously he's not a strong defensive player, but he know how to get in position to get charges at the right time. He just finds ways to impact winning, you know, at all times. And because of that, you know, analytics can't quantify that. They can't. Can't quantify heart, you know, desire. And I think that's, that's what separates this kid from everybody else.

[Jason McIntyre]

By the way, do you buy the narrative about the small guards thing? I mean, Kyrie Irving, LeBron doesn't win in Cleveland without Kyrie Irving. Isaiah Thomas, back before your time, obviously, Steph Curry, if we call him small. I don't, I just don't know that I buy that narrative. Do you, Al?

[Al Harrington]

I don't. Honestly, I don't buy it. I mean, you know, it's a grain salt because, you know, every team that's won a championship, you know, their point guards have usually been small. Especially like when you think about back in the day, right now, this era, point guards and stuff are a lot bigger. But I don't, I don't really buy it. I think that especially with this kid in particular, like it doesn't matter who they put on him, they put bigger guards on him, they gonna put three men on him sometime, and he still figures out a way to score and get a space where they're not even there. So I think if that is a thing, he is about to change that this season.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, let's go to Thunder and Spurs. This series is ticking me off. I don't like the Flopping by OKC I'll start with this. Listen, I don't know how many floppers you played with, and I know that everybody. James Harden, flopping machine. Al, we've never seen anything like this the night the game happens, the next morning. Like, the top storyline is, look at these 10 clips together of Jared McCain elbowing and then flopping and Caruso flop like it's getting annoying. I think it's a big issue for the league. I mean, you can't go on social media today and not see all these clips of, hey, they shot 31 free throws in the second quarter. What are the refs doing? I don't know.

[Al Harrington]

I mean, I honestly feel like, you know, these referees, sometimes they feel a little bit of pressure when they're in the other teams on their home floor. You know, I feel like, you know, I call it the SGA whistle. I think he gets a whistle in Oklahoma. You know what I'm saying? I think it's just a natural thing. I think tomorrow night he won't get the same whistle. The flopping is an issue. Some people might want to call it gamesmanship or whatever, but I think it is bad for the game. But that's how the refs reference. So you got to use everything to your advantage. And if I can run into a player and fall down and get to the free throw line and that's going to help my team win, I'm going to do it.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. Well, do you. I'm sure you talk to a lot of former players, maybe even current players. What's their take on this? Is it a thing? Is it not a big deal? Harden was a flopper.

[Al Harrington]

It's frustrating. We all frustrated by it, you know, but once again, like I said, when you think about it, roles reverse and we were in that situation and that's going to help me get 25 points a night. I'm going to do it. You know, I think overall, like, when you think about older players, like, we all feel like the game is like not soft. I want to call it soft because these kids are like uber talented. I feel like they play extremely hard, but it's just different. I feel like my era was more of like a gladiator mindset, right? We all wanted to play all 82 games, right? When I first came in the league, we practiced every day, two hours a day, and shoot arounds were tapes. So that means when you tape, that mean that we're going full speed. They don't have to endure any of that stuff anymore. So it's just a different time and their bodies are built differently. So I, you know, we can't really complain about it. We. All we could do is just talk about our old war stories, but it's just a different time.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, and it's interesting because, you know, your time, well, a little before your time, like Jordan, I mean, he retired twice. You know, Magic Johnson was done. Obviously he had the illness. Isaiah Bird, all those guys retired early. LeBron is still elite at like 41. Steph Curry's late 30s. Like, I kind of like that the guys are lasting longer in their careers, Right? Yeah.

[Al Harrington]

No, that's a great thing. I mean, I mean, the longer these guys can play, I mean, they build such a huge brand for the NBA and such a huge following, which that obviously helps that, that helps, you know, viewership, different things like that, that, you know, fans can see, guys that they're familiar with or they've grown up watching, you know, that, that's, that's great for the game, but, you know, everybody gets old and I feel like these new young guys, these young guns are really ready to go and take the bull by the horns as we see right now in these playoffs.

[Jason McIntyre]

Let me ask, is SGA getting a little exposed in this series? In the regular season, 55% from the field. In this series, 38%. And some crazy numbers show that when he's off the court, they're better. In this series, their net rating's better. Plus minus is better. I mean, listen, his supporting cast is ridiculous. The roster is insane. I don't, I'm just curious, has any of your opinion changed on SGA throughout this series?

[Al Harrington]

No. He's the guy. I just feel like San Antonio has figured out how to guard him. Not how to stop him, but how to guard him. Right. Be physical with him. The guards, they have great size and length that even though, you know, he loves his little push off shot, they still can actually get there to contest, right? They're big enough that they still can contest. They're also overly, you know, pushing them, you know, to his left, hopefully trying to get him to go to the basketball because they got the big fella back there, right? So they definitely have two things that, you know, most teams don't have. And when you talk about a series that's game in and game out, they getting more and more confidence guarding them. And, you know, for him, you know, he is, he's that good. You know, one thing I always loved about his game, I always call him Joe Cool. Like, you never see him sweat, right? It was just like he play a whole 48 minutes and he doesn't sweat. These guys got him sweating, you know what I'm saying? So they're bringing out the best in him. And you know, and even like last night, he didn't have the ideal shooting game, but he did what, what he had to do to win. He played an MVP type of game to me, even though, you know, he shot 17 free throws.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, you mentioned the big guy, Wemby. I don't know, man. Al so disappointing in him last night. He looked like he just didn't want it. I know that sounds bad, but he's floating around the three point line. I think he shot 4 of 13, something ridiculous like that. He just, he didn't seem to have it and I'm sorry. Four of 15. I don't know. Where's game one, Wemby? Is he just tired? Can he recapture that magic? I don't know.

[Al Harrington]

So I know we call him an alien, but I think for some reason he's actually human. Guys get tired, you know what I'm saying? I mean, they're wearing on him. You know, these. They're playing every other day and every other day they expecting maximum output out of him. So I just think that honestly last night he was a little fatigued. You know, it was a road game. I know tomorrow night back at home, he's gonna be a totally different monster. You will see the alien tomorrow night and, you know, hopefully they find a way to win the ball game so we can get a seventh game. This series is so good. I don't think any of us want it to end. And we just hope that, you know, he comes out and he plays hard, gives maximum effort, which we know he will. Obviously, defensively, there's nothing you can do with him on that end. But on the offensive side, you know, the guys did a great job last night of being overly physical with him, making things tough, making them catch the ball a little, you know, further out of his comfort zone. And I think if they continue to do that, that gives them an advantage. But, you know, his teammates are just going to have to do, you know, pull their weight. You know, it's a team game. You know, obviously everything is kind of set up off of him. But then in times like that's why they got Fox, that's why they got Castle, that's why they got Vassell, they got other guys that can definitely pull their weight. And they just gonna need everybody to, you know, to get through this series. They're gonna need everybody.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, Al will be on. First Things first. Next. But one more question. LeBron, two part question number one, LeBron or Jordan? Who's. Who's better? I gotta ask it. Come on. I have to. And then number two, where do you think he plays next year? Or do you think he retires?

[Al Harrington]

All right, so my one is Michael Jeffrey Jordan. Just for a lot of reasons. You know, I seen him kill my Knicks so many times and, you know, just. It's Michael Jeffrey Jordan. I wore the shoes. I'm bald like them still. That's why even bronze bald like him now, too. You know, he didn't want to be, but he is. I mean, he even wears 23, right? So, you know, whatever. That's a whole nother story. And I think next year he should try to find a way to end his career in Cleveland. I think with the way that the Cleveland Cavaliers is set up with the team that's there, the fact that, you know, he's the ultimate facilitator guy, I think it would be a great fit for him, and I think it would give him an opportunity to get to one last final before his career ends. But you know, me knowing LeBron, I know he's gonna want the farewell tour, he's gonna want all the gifts and the rocking chairs and all that kind of stuff. There's no way he's ret in this offseason.

[Jason McIntyre]

Interesting. So wait, you think it's a good fit alongside two non defenders in Mitchell and James Harden?

[Al Harrington]

Yeah, because you got the big guys that can defend. You know, the defensive. Defensive woes is, you know, is going to be tough. But I just think that in this league right now, defense isn't a focal point like it used to be back in the day. It is about outscoring teams. And I think you put those guys together, they can. They can outscore some teams in the east for sure.

[Jason McIntyre]

Right? LeBron playing for the league minimum next year, Al?

[Al Harrington]

Not a chance. In H double hockey sticks.

[Jason McIntyre]

No way. Yeah, he should not. We're not saying he should. Al Harrington. Catch him on First Things first next, right after us. Great stuff, Al. Good to talk to you, bud.

[Al Harrington]

Thanks, man.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right. Fun stuff from Al Harrington. You see how I got in that Jordan LeBron question. That's fun. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

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[Jason McIntyre]

back here on the herd. Great guest right now. It's so funny. I'll walk around the halls of Fox and see these guys. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I remember him from the World Cup. And these guys just say, what's up? They're so friendly. They're so nice. Let's welcome in Mo Adu from the US national soccer team. Midfielder, defender. Great guy. Mo. What's up? We were just recounting the 2010 World cup, and why don't you tell the audience about all the static you give Landon Donovan, who was the healer from the Algeria game.

[Mo Adams]

No, Landon. Listen, Landon is iconic for this country, especially when it comes to this sport, and especially that tournament 2010 where he scored that game winner against Algeria. But I give him some crap here and there. I'm like, landon, man, you owe me. He's like, what do you mean? I'm like, if my goal would have counted, your goal wouldn't have been that important. But, you know, it's all just banter at this point. His. His goal was such an iconic moment. It's such a special moment that so many kids to this day still talk about. Grown men, grown adults. We all still celebrate that moment because of how powerful it was. We were second from exiting that tournament.

[Jason McIntyre]

Second.

[Mo Adams]

His goal makes us win the group and go on to the knockout rounds.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. And then, of course, the brutal result against Ghana. They score in like, the 93rd minute. It was a great goal. But that World cup was. I mean, listen, all the World Cups for us are great. I think this one's going to be special. We're on the home turf. The roster was announced yesterday. Not a lot of controversy. I referenced the England controversy last week. I'm sure you saw that. Oh, holy cow. I didn't see any major omissions. I would have liked to see Diego Luna on the team, but I'm just curious your thoughts on Pochettino's roster construction.

[Mo Adams]

Yeah, I think the biggest kind of noise that surrounded the roster was Diego Luna. Diego Luna, Tanner Testman. And to your point, I. When I did my little mock draft up, I actually had both of them on the roster, and a lot of these names were included there. I think the one that people talk about that has been included is Gio Reyna. He hasn't played a ton of minutes at the club level, but the thing about Gio is every time he plays with the national team, he's. You see his talent, you see the quality, you see the difference he can make. I actually had in my mock draft or mockup lineup roster, I had Luna on the roster as well as Gio Reina. So I just look at this and 10 defenders, it kind of speaks to me and says that tactically we're going to probably play with three center backs because why else you have that many defenders? But I'm optimistic. I'm excited about this group and this World Cup.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. Were you surprised only four midfielders? I guess tactically that's that he's g. He's showing his hand a little bit, huh?

[Mo Adams]

Yeah. I was surprised. I thought we might have added another body in there and if it wasn't going to be Tanner Testin, then maybe a guy like Aiden Morris who played incredibly well for Middlesbrough throughout the course of this season. But yeah, that's where I feel like we might be a little bit light, a little bit thin there. One injury to, let's say, let me touch wood. I don't want to say his name, but our heartbeat of that midfield is what I will call him.

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Yeah.

[Mo Adams]

And now we're scrambling a little bit. But listen, let's just put belief and trust in this team, in this group and hopefully we get that first win on June 12th.

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay, so I'm with you. Belief, trust, all that. It's a little bit of a tough sell given what we've seen lately. I mean, you get smacked by Belgium, you get shut out by Portugal. You know, Pulisic hasn't scored since the ice age, basically. I don't know. Some fan, not me. Some fans are like, oh, we got no shot. Can you put a positive spin on the recent struggles?

[Mo Adams]

I can't argue with facts. You know, their concerns are valid, fans concerns are valid and that's fair. But what I would say is we have two big games coming up. First and foremost, we have the game against Senegal and Charlotte and then the game against Germany and Chicago as our last two send off games. I would be incredibly encouraged if we got a result from one of those two games that gives the fans, but also the players some encouragement, some momentum to build off of. Going into what you see there. That opening match against Paraguay, that's the biggest game. That's by far the biggest game. You start the tournament off with a win and it just sets the t the stage for you to grow throughout the course of the tournament. And more than anything else, it sets the stage for you to win your group.

[Jason McIntyre]

So I got to ask about this Paraguay matchup. So we smacked them in a friendly 5:1. We had a lot of our, you know, not 18 players on there. They had most of their lineup, like 95% of their starters and we crushed them. However, you start reading about strategy since then and it sounds like they're going to go with a. We're just going to hunker back on defense and play for the tie, go with a low block and not let anything past us. Do you anticipate a defensive struggle in this one?

[Mo Adams]

Well, well, what I would say is the par. Oh, you're talking about the Uruguay game. The paraguay game was 2:1. That was 2:1. It was a closer game. But. But what I would say to that point. You make a good point. Listen, our style of play, you would love to say our style of play is so defined and there's so much clarity on what it is and at times it's not. We've had to adjust. We have to adapt to the object opponent. What can't change and what has to be consistent is when we do press that, we're collectively pressing the game that you're referencing against Uruguay. Yeah, we were on the front foot, we played with a high tempo, a lot of energy, scored early, scored often and got an incredible result. But every game's not going to play out that way. And if Paraguay decides to sit back, that's where this group is going to really be tested because what we haven't seen consistently from them is the ability to break down a low buck. But listen, maybe this is why a Giorena is on this roster, why Alejandro Zendayas is on this roster. To have more creative difference makers in the final third that can unlock doors against some of these difficult opponents that will sit in a little bit more.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, the school scoring for us. Listen, this is always an issue at the World Cup. We know this. What's your best guess at what we do up front for roster wise?

[Mo Adams]

So I'm anticipating us playing probably a three four, three. So with three attackers, wing backs in, let's say Anthony Robinson, Sergino Dess or A Tim Waya on the right hand side and then the attacking trio, I'm seeing Flo Baligan as the number nine Christian underneath him. And now the other one is interesting because Weston McKinney has played higher up, but based on the personnel, I think he's going to be deeper alongside Tyler Adams. And so I'd probably plug in maybe a Malik Tillman to compliment Christian as the creators underneath Flo Baligan.

[Jason McIntyre]

That some of the gambling odds and I Don't know how much you're watching this stuff. There's a little bit of money coming in on Paraguay. I just wonder, is it one of these games that you played in the World Cup? But like at home, it's going to be different. The crowd's going to be juiced up, you know, the stadium is going to be rocking. The whole country's watching. If we don't get one early, is that where it's like, oh, we're in for a 00 heading into the 80th minute kind of deal.

[Mo Adams]

No, listen. But the fans might feel that. And this is where it's so painful being a fan. Right. And especially when you're a former player and now you're a fan because you have no control.

[Al Harrington]

Yeah.

[Mo Adams]

So all you're doing is as these minutes tick along. Yeah. You start thinking about the worst case scenario. Oh, this team hasn't scored in this long, or this hasn't happened, that hasn't happened. But when you're on the inside, you always know and you always feel like things can just switch like that. All it takes is one moment. All it takes is for. Whether it's a set piece, whether it's a counterattack, whether it's in the run of play, a moment of creativity that sparks that. And as much as we talk about how the pressure can come with playing at a home World cup, to me there's nothing more exciting. These kids would have dreamed of this opportunity and thought it was so. And thought it was far fetched. Like, we're not going to play in a home World Cup. That's never going to come around and here we are. They'll recognize the responsibility and the opportunity and they're going to seize it, man, I'm, I'm sure of that.

[Jason McIntyre]

You did reference two upcoming friendly scrimmages, whatever you want to call them. I'm just curious. Like, that's so close to the World Cup. A turned ankle, anything puts a lot in jeopardy. Talk me through the, the, the run up matches you guys had in the week before your World Cup.

[Mo Adams]

Now, how dare you, how dare you introduce any kind of.

[Jason McIntyre]

I get nervous thinking about stuff, but you're right.

[Mo Adams]

And that, that, actually, that. Actually I'm glad you brought that up because for those guys who didn't make the roster, right, you got to still be locked in because to your point, all it takes is a little bit of a knock, an injury, something, God forbid any of that happens. But if that is the case, well, then a player is going to get replaced and your Your opportunity is going to suddenly appear and are you ready for it? But these games are important because now that the roster is finalized, my hope is that, well, one, we get a result from one of these two games, as I mentioned before, to give this team confidence and momentum going into the tournament. The other thing that has to happen is we have to see what our best 11 is. So now we get two games to see what our best 11 looks like for them to build and continue building on some chemistry, some cohesion and just build all those things as we prepare for that first match against Paraguay.

[Jason McIntyre]

Two more. Let's go to Pulisic first. I mean, listen, he's been on the struggle bus, whether it was AC Milan or with the US national team. There's some questions. Again, just fanboys. Hey, does he really work with Pochettino? What are you hearing? I don't know if you've talked to current players, but it definitely seems like he hasn't been in good form. Shall. Shall I say.

[Mo Adams]

You know what? It's. It's such a hard one to, to. To really break down because we. A lot of people are saying he hasn't been in good form and they're going just based off of the fact that he hasn't scored. And that's fair. Like that's. His position governs you, scoring goals, getting assists, being the focal point in the attack. And I'm going to sound probably like the minority here when I say I'm not worried about Christian. I'm not worried about Christian in the sense that, well, one, there's other attackers that are contributing that are playing at a high level. I mentioned the form that West McKinney's been in. Flo Baligan has been getting goals regularly. So there's other guys that can create and try to minimize or take away as much pressure that we place on him. The other part is Christian is a guy that I feel like is going to really thrive in this moment where all eyes are on him. It's a home World Cup. It's a chance for him to really prove himself right. Don't worry about proving us wrong or proving doubters wrong or proving anybody. No, prove yourself right. The kid has the quality. He's shown it. He's delivered in big games before for us. We saw in the last World cup the importance that he had to this US Men's national team. And now in a world, in a home World Cup, I think he'll deliver again. The other part is when you watch Christian play sometimes when guys are in these Funks. They haven't scored. They have. They shy away, right? They shy away from the responsibility. They go in, they go into hiding. Christian's not hiding. Some people are criticizing him, saying he's trying to overdo it because he's so desperate to score a goal. I would rather that I want a guy who wants to take the responsibility regardless and show this team is going to go as far as I can take them. And I feel like we're going to see that version of Christian this summer and he's going to lead this team in the right direction.

[Jason McIntyre]

I love it. All right, 30 seconds. Are they getting out of the group stage? The U.S. okay, thank you. Confirming. Yes, 100%. Lock that in. We're out of the group stage. Let's just start breaking down the knockout rounds, Mo.

[Mo Adams]

If we got time, let's do it. But they're getting out of the group, and I'm going to go as far as to say they win the group and that sets the stage for some really amazing things to happen in the knockout room.

[Jason McIntyre]

Totally agree. Moadu, former U.S. national team star. Thank you for the time. Look forward to watching you all summer as an analyst on FOX and FS1 during the Cup. Thanks again, Mo.

[Mo Adams]

Appreciate you, my man. Good seeing you.

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this is an iHeart podcast.

[Mo Adams]

Guaranteed Human.