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The Herd with Colin Cowherd
3 and Out - Cam Ward #1 Overall? Puka Nacua To Retire At 30, Mailbag
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- [00:00]
John Middlekauff
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- [01:45]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson, and it's about bringing voices not from the extremes but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:17]
Dan Roth
The Volum.
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John Middlekauff
Foreign what is going on everybody? How are we doing? John middlecop three and Out Podcast hopefully everyone is having a great day out there on the mean streets of real life. And we're here to podcast because that's what we do here on the 3Now podcast. And today I do want to dive into not just Cam Ward, who had his pro day, but just in general, what we've seen this last draft, which was very transfer portal heavy and what we expect in this upcoming draft, which all the quarterbacks and the transfer portal have become synonymous with each other and to incredible success. Puka Nakua had some comments today about retiring early. I do want to dive into that incredible moment on the Internet. I saw what happened on television, what happened in real life, but I saw it on the Internet. It was on television. The wrestling upset that happened at the national championship. Daniel Cormier was there calling it legendary. Guy got beat. And of course the Middlekop mailbag at johnmittlecoff is the Instagram fire into those DMS and get your questions answered here on the show at John Middlekop is the Instagram fire in those DMS and get your questions answered here on the show. We will do a mailbag and that will be the game plan for today. So we'll talk a little football, we'll do a little mailbag, we'll we'll talk a little more football and yeah, we'll kind of go from there. So we did a podcast yesterday. You can see that our recorded on Sunday for Monday and then obviously this one. So a couple podcasts so far this week. But before we dive into some football, I do need to tell you about my friends, my partners and the official ticketing app of this podcast. Listen, we got the Sweet 16 Thursday and Friday. So you live in one of these areas. We got the NBA playoffs right around the corner. We got the NHL playoffs right around the corner. We got baseball starting all over the country and obviously it goes for like 15 months because it's a long season. So it's all summer long if you want to go to event. I saw this clip on the on the Internet the other day, someone talking about work, life, balance and listen, most of us struggle with this and sometimes the older you get you can get into a routine. Every once in a while you need to shatter that routine and get out on a Thursday night, a Friday night, a Saturday night. Whether it's taking your child, taking your wife, taking a good friend, taking a brother, taking a sister, go enjoy yourself and do it on us. Any event, concert, comedy show as well. Take the guesswork out of buying tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account and use the code JOHN for $20 off. Your first purchase terms apply again, create an account and redeem the code JOHN for $20 off. Download the Game Time app today. Last minute tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. It's funny how things are viewed a certain way and then over time that dramatically changes. And I think when you look at the landscape of college sports forever, if you were changing schools, it was usually a red flag. Hell, I remember growing up, it's like my dad's like put down the video games, pick up a book and now people watch other people play video games, streaming and YouTube and those people crush it. It's like things change, we adapt. Things that are viewed negatively become more popular and sometimes they have enormous financial windfalls behind them. And I think when you look at the transfer portal, it wasn't long ago when this thing didn't exist that if you move schools it was viewed as like I couldn't cut it, he couldn't get it done. And for the most part it tended to be a red flag. And part of it was if you were forced to transfer, whether it was because you couldn't play at that school or because you were seeking a better opportunity, it was not advantageous to your career. Like you had to sit out a season and if you had red shirted, like if you'd gone to Texas, if you'd gone to usc, if you'd gone wherever, Fresno State, Boise State, you name it and you redshirted and then tried to start the following year and didn't cut it and then wanted to transfer your red shirt sophomore season, you had to burn your third year and it just didn't count for anything. But you were not allowed to play. Well, obviously the transfer portal has changed everything. And Cam Ward, who all signs, and I mean every sign point to him being the number one overall pick and within the next month plus he will be the starting quarterback for the Tennessee Titans and him and I think last year we saw the first true windfall of the quote unquote transfer portal quarterbacks. And this year is going to follow that group extremely, I mean basically the same thing. And I don't think anymore this is that weird. It actually if you have the opportunity to jump, unless you are in an ideal situation, kind of feels like a no brainer. Let's look at Cam Ward who is actually on his third school of his career. Right Incarnate word. I. I've texted a couple people. I haven't quite got the breakdown how he ended up at such a small school but then made the jump to Washington State and it changed his life. And by the end of last year he was the number one guy in the transfer portal and got paid millions of dollars to go to the University of Miami. It's funny, someone in my DMs the other day was like middle cough, you throw around some of these numbers with college athletes, like, bro, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. That's, it's not correct. No way these guys are making that much money. Yes guys, they are making that much money. I actually talked to someone today who is in the college football world and I mean very tight end, tight end. And he told me about, he didn't tell me the school, but he was at a program with the head coach and the coach was telling him that in the quarterback room they had multiple seven figure quarterbacks. And this was not Texas. And that doesn't just include the salary. That includes houses that come with it, cars that come with it. The money for regular players, starting players obviously varies, right? Could go from 100 grand to 700, 800 grand. But when it comes to quarterbacks, the going rate is seven figures. And so when Cam Ward transferred last year, we don't have the exact details, this is in the NFL, but here he got paid well over a million dollars to go to the University of Miami. And it changed his life because when he went to Miami he would not have been a first round pick last year. And now he is going to be the number one overall pick. So he got to go to a major program, make a ton of money and up his draft stock. But I started thinking like, think about last season. Caleb Williams, number one overall pick, transfer from Oklahoma to USC with Lincoln Riley, Jaden Daniels, transferred from Arizona State to lsu, won the Heisman. Both those two guys won the Heisman. Drake May, it was a pretty big story going into his last year at North Carolina when Mack Brown came out and said that people had been dirty, quote unquote dirty, recruiting Drake May and offering him millions of dollars to transfer. Well, it's pretty clear, it's like Bryce Young just went pro, is probably Alabama, you know, or you know, schools in the SEC were offering him huge money. Now he decided to stay, but it wasn't for a lack of opportunity to leave. Michael Penix went eighth overall, left Indiana to go to Washington. A couple of years later he's in the Heisman mix. They're in the national championship. J.J. mcCarthy, somewhat unique because his team was so stacked, didn't need to leave, got paid at Jim Harbaugh, Bo Nix, went from Auburn to Oregon. All these guys that transferred not only made millions of dollars, their draft stock went like this. And then you look at this season, Cam Ward went from Washington State where he was a very intriguing prospect. I do believe he would have came out last year, would have gone somewhere between pick 40 and 70, he would have been a second day pick, but he would not have been the number one overall pick. And then you look at Shador Sanders, little different because obviously he's playing for his dad, but played at multiple different schools. And if Deion hadn't existed and Shador was just Shador Sanders, not related to Deion Sanders, probably a pretty high probability that he transferred during his career. Even if he didn't start at Jackson State, let's just say he started at like North Carolina State. Look at the guy probably going third, Jackson Darp third. You know, of this class, usc, Ole Miss. Think about the two guys in the national championship, Riley Leonard and Will Howard, transfer quarterbacks, Kyle McCord, transfer quarterbacks. All these guys move and improve their draft stock. So where it used to be looked at very negatively just because that was just the conventional wisdom, if you moved, something was wrong and a lot of time that was true. It's like, well, he just, he couldn't start at Pete Carroll's, USC couldn't cut it at Mack, Browns, Texas, Sabin too much for them. Right now there are individual examples of guys moving on and becoming really good players. It definitely happened, but for the most part it was on the other side of the ledger. Something was off. And in my experience you like stayed away from those guys. Now not only do you embrace it, you completely understand why they left. It's like, yeah, they are offering you a better opportunity and money and for all these other positions, it's clearly there is no guarantee when you leave for the quarterbacks now if you can upgrade schools like it's a double whammy because you cash in in the short term and the long term. We, we have a couple years of data now and we'll see how this draft class kind of plays out. And I'm not even just talking about the top guys, I'm talking about seven, eight of them. But it's pretty clear it is the move. So you know, Drake May is a good example. He ended up going, getting going three overall ultimately like he's in a good spot now with variable stable organization, you think? But there is a chance if he had pulled the trigger and transferred to let's say Alabama last year and been the starting quarterback in Nick Sabins last year, who say he couldn't have gotten one overall. Jaden Daniels is a great example. When he transferred from Arizona State, I thought the guy was like a fringe draft pick. Even his first year at LSU there was a huge work in progress and by the end you're talking about a no brainer, top five pick. And now it looks like he's going to be a superstar in the NFL. So the transfer portal, when it comes to quarterbacks, it's not only helped these guys draft stock, but I actually think it's really, really improved college football. It's made it much more interesting having these guys move to just top programs. So I just. If you are a kid in college football right now and people come calling at that position and you have an opportunity to not only make way more money, but go to a program in a brighter light situation, the data is pretty clearly on your side. You probably want to say yes. Puka Nakua was quoted in the USA Today article, love Pukinakua. I mean ever since that guy came into the NFL, I'd be lying if I knew much about him in college. You know, byu, Washington guy, transfer portal has become a star in the NFL. Like there is not a soul that, and that includes Sean McVeigh unless needed, thought he'd be this good. Like he is. He's really good. I mean he's one of the few guys like the way he's talked about, like, yeah, he's, he's that good. I mean this guy's a total package. And he basically had a quote today of saying like he wants to retire at age 30, which would essentially give him 10 years in the NFL. He's 23 years old going into year three and basically looking at Aaron Donald as someone to aspire to be like, have a great career, make some money, win at a high level, produce at a high level, be really successful and then get out before your body falls apart. And it got me thinking, is he alone? Are there going to be a lot of guys who think like this and make this decision, you know, in the future? By the time some of these guys get to their late 20s, early 30s, these wide receivers, these pass rushers, these offensive tackles, they are going to have NBA money. Look at Justin Jefferson. By the time his, by the time he's 30 years old, he'll have probably accumulated $150 million. Where you know, 20, 30 years ago, even if you were rich relative to society, it wasn't just like, no matter what, it'd be really hard to screw this thing up. That's not going to be the case for the Puka Nakua generation. I mean, whatever contract Puka, assuming that he stays healthy next year and has another big season, he is going to get a, a ton of money. And it got me thinking, like, could this start happening, could, like the Andrew Luck, Aaron Donald, Calvin Johnson thing become something that is more consistent in the NFL recently, for those of you that don't follow golf, there is this thing called the Champions Tour. It's where people over 50 that were really good get a chance to keep playing. Now, the money is not the same, but you basically have to compete against your peers and still make hundreds of thousands of dollars and get your juices flowing. And while Tiger, Tiger's not technically eligible yet, he will be in a year or two. But anyone that saw on the Internet that he's, he's head over heels in love, that maybe just love outdoes golf, and I don't even know if his body works. But there are a ton of guys on the Champions Tour that made millions of dollars and that are consistent, frequent players on the Champions Tour. And Rory McIlroy recently made a comment. He said, I'm 35 years old now. There is no chance, under no circumstances will I play on that tour when I'm 50. I'll be done. So. And a lot of guys like Ernie Ells, who was a peer of Tiger woods, who is really rich. I mean, I would imagine he's worth well over $100 million, has done very, very well for himself over the course of his professional life, took offense to it and said, it's easy to say when you're young. These comments wait till you're our age and you want to get those juices flowing. No matter how successful you are and how much money you make off the course or off the field and what business ventures you get, there is nothing to get your juices flowing like playing. And while I think it's easy for Puka Nukua to say, like, I want to do this, there isn't anything in life that will give you that rush of running out the tunnel and playing on a Sunday. Plus, there aren't many jobs that even as you come back to earth, look at his running mate and peer Cooper cup, whose career kind of got derailed because of injuries, isn't the same player. He could have been like, you know what? I'm out. I've made a ton of money. I've had an incredible career. See you later. But he just got three years. Now, I don't, I don't have his contract up, but let's just say he'll make another 10, 15, $20 million playing for the Seattle Seahawks. You're not getting that money in the real world. So I think these comments for every Aaron Donald and Calvin Johnson I know their circumstances were much different. It's always easy to say things when you're young. We've all done it, and then you get older. I'm sure I said things when I was 25 or 30 years old that I look back and I can't relate to or think like, God, I was, I was ignorant, I was naive, I didn't quite understand because you can't because you're young. And then as you get older and you look at things from a much different view, you go, yeah, I probably didn't mean that. And I don't think this is going to become a thing. And if I was a betting man right now, assuming he stays healthy, and the thing with football, you never know. I'll be stunned if he actually does it, if he can still play at a high level. Because by then just being a rotational wide receiver 30 years old, might pay $10 million just to be like a good veteran presence, to be a high level guy to have around. And when you're competitive and you like to compete, there is no high. Like when those lights are on, there really isn't. Sometimes people ask me, like, did you ever think about going back? I'm like, no, not really. Do you miss anything? Of course. I mean, I, I was meant to do what I'm doing. I truly believe that. But there is something cool about game day. And, you know, a lot of the quarterbacks that retire say, listen, I, I don't miss a lot of it because it is a grind, but there is nothing quite like playing the game. Okay, let's dive into a couple quick things here on college sports. I saw something on the Internet today that, that was pretty cool. It was college wrestling. And Daniel Cormier, who longtime UFC guy, was on the call for espn, does stuff here at the volume. And his excitement level just blew me away. I didn't even know that the college wrestling championships were going on or the magnitude of actually what happened. And it turns out that this dude from Oklahoma State, Wyatt Hendrickson, upset this guy named Gable Stevenson. Now, Gable Stevenson, this is the heavyweight matches, had hadn't lost in like 73 college matches, had already won gold medals, had fought in the wwe. Like, this guy was one of the most legendary figures, I guess, in the history of college wrestling and was almost viewed as unbeatable. And this guy took him down and it was pretty incredible. It was. If you haven't seen it, type it into the Internet and watch it. Well, and I've told this before, when I went to Cal Poly in my year. And in my class was Chad Mendez. And my college roommate, Aaron Warshawski actually roomed with him or with the wrestlers because he was like an early enrollee before our freshman year. So I don't pretend to be friends with Chad or anything, but I was around him a little bit at times in college, and I had never been around wrestlers. And by our senior year, and obviously, if you follow UFC, Chad went on to UFC. He fought McGregor, he fought Aldo. Like, he was a pretty accomplished UFC fighter. And as a wrestler, I think his senior year, he lost in the national championship at whatever his weight class was, like 140. And I remember for the first time in my life being around wrestlers and learning that, like, the baddest dudes on any campus, I don't care whether you're at Penn State, whether you're at Cal Poly, whether you're at Oklahoma State, are not the football players. It's the three or four crazy wrestlers. And Chad used to get in fights in college, and whether you were 6, 5, 300 pounds or just a normal human, he would annihilate you. And clearly went on to the UFC and just was not only one of the tougher guys I think I've ever been around, but obviously one of the most skilled fighters. Well, when I was like, I need to get a job in sports. So my third or fourth year in college, went to school for five years. My parents neighbor in Davis worked at UC Davis in the athletic department, and she helped, like, call the AD at Cal Poly and got me an interview. And again, Cal Poly athletics, I mean, this isn't exactly like Texas, so you just walk right in. There's not much going on, so I probably could have just knocked on her door myself. But I'm young, I don't really know anything. And they. They hired me to do some, like, bs, and I would just, like, help out and do some different stuff. Eventually, I got, like, the coolest job on campus. My job at our baseball stadium. We had an area that had beer. We had, like, multiple kegs and hot dogs. And if you had a ticket to get in, everything was free. You could drink as much as you want, and you could eat as many hot dogs as you want. They also had peanuts. So free beer, peanuts, hot dogs. And my job was to take your ticket to get in because you need a special ticket. So all my friends, for a couple, I had that job, like, junior and senior year of college. Everyone would come in. My friends, you had to be a little careful every once in a while. Like the assistant AD would be close and I kind of give my buddies the wink, tell them not to come in. But for the most part, my people got in and they would just get annihilated. You know, three game series, like Friday and Saturday night. Great time to go. Just booze before you went out for free. But I also like would help out, like basketball and wrestling stuff. And I remember going to a wrestling match and I remember watching this guy. Oklahoma State came out to Cal Poly and this is where Wyatt ended up beating this guy. He's an Oklahoma State wrestler. Turns out I went on a deep dive. Daniel Cormier also was Oklahoma State guy. I think he lost 10 times in his entire college career. And six of them were to like the guy Caleb Saunderson, I might be screwing up his last name. Who's like one of the most legendary college wrestlers who's now was the wrestling coach, I think at Iowa or Iowa State forever. He's now at Penn State. Like just legend. I mean, all these guys, you wouldn't fuck with any of them. And I remember being when Oklahoma State got there and this one guy, and they were just. Every single guy destroyed everyone at Cal Poly. But one guy, I remember watching, his name was Johnny Hendricks and a lot of hype. It was like watching the. It was like Cooper flag of wrestling. And I remember watching him and like, again, Cal Poly was a decent wrestling program. He treated this guy like an older brother treats a younger brother that's like seven years younger than him. He was just slamming them all over the place. I'm like, these guys are in a different universe of the ability to fight. And Johnny Hendricks, like Chad Mendez, went on to the ufc. I mean, these guys were the cream of the crop. So when I see this heavyweight, these two guys going at it, I can't imagine how tough these guys actually are. Because all these guys are on a direct path to Dana White to fight in the Octagon. Now, it doesn't mean they're going to be great fighters in the Octagon, but their skills and anyone who have gone to any schools with a legit wrestling program knows you do not fuck with those guys ever. No matter if it's the 130 pounder, it's easy to stay away from the cauliflower ear guy that weighs 210 pounds. It's another thing, you're like, wait, and another dude is like five, five. He was one of the national champions this weekend. Is dating a girl. I forget what school he goes to. On the volleyball team who's 6 foot 3 so he runs over to her, gives her a huge hug and a kiss. She's towering over. I mean, it's like she's got it by almost a foot. Never see anything like it. But it's like, I don't blame her because like who, who's going to talk shit to that guy and make fun of him for being short dating this tall girl? I dare you to do it because he beat the living crap out of you. So yeah, just I didn't know that much about wrestling until I went to college and I'm not even that big of a UFC guy, but I respect the out of these guys because they are some bad, bad dudes. When it comes to college basketball in March mania, one thing is for sure, nothing's for sure. Upsets, buzzer beaters, Cinderellas, top seeds going home early. It's all gonna happen. Bet the unexpected. Every upset, every day with DraftKings Sportsbook. With live betting, exclusive content, promos and parlays, DraftKing is the ultimate college basketball destination for March. Ready to make your first bet? Check out matchups and pick a team to win. It's that simple. 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- [27:41]
Nikki Glaser
AI is redefining what's possible for your business. Are you up to the challenge? Microsoft is helping leaders like you get AI ready faster with unified data and simplified platform management, unlocking up to 150% improved output across industries. Leaders are turning to Microsoft's AI tools and guidance to rise to the challenge. For the NBA, that means using AI powered insights to deliver more personalized fan experiences. For BMW, it means innovating their development process safely and securely. And for Lego House, it means creating new interactive experiences for people to explore. With Microsoft's trustworthy AI tools and guidance, you can drive greater impact. Business leaders Microsoft surveyed saw an average of 3.7 times ROI per $1 invested in generative AI. Whatever challenge comes next, let Microsoft help you keep pushing forward. For more details, visit Microsoft.com challengers we.
- [28:42]
Jeremy Hobson
Live in a divided country.
- [28:43]
John Middlekauff
I am a lifelong Republican with all.
- [28:46]
Jeremy Hobson
Kinds of different people.
- [28:47]
John Middlekauff
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [28:50]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [28:58]
Bob Pittman
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [29:00]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.
- [29:05]
Bob Pittman
Thanks for having me. Jeremy.
- [29:06]
Jeremy Hobson
Neil DeGrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [29:08]
John Middlekauff
Thanks for having me.
- [29:09]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [29:14]
Bob Pittman
Hi, my name is Venkat.
- [29:15]
John Middlekauff
I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [29:17]
Jeremy Hobson
And when you subscribe to the Middle, you you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [29:26]
John Middlekauff
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [29:34]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [29:40]
Unknown
Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to share my podcast with you. Math and Stories from the frontiers of Marketing. This week I'm talking to the CEO of Moderna, Stephane Bonsell, about how he led his team through unprecedented times to create, test and distribute a COVID vaccine, all in less than a year.
- [30:02]
Bob Pittman
It becomes a human decision to decide to throw by the window your business strategy and to do what you think is the right thing for the world.
- [30:10]
Unknown
Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math and the ever important creative spark, the Magic. Listen to math and magic stories from the frontiers of Marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [30:25]
Dan Roth
Ever wonder what it would be like to be mentored by today's top business leaders? My podcast this is Working can help with that. Here's some advice from Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JPMorgan Chase, on standing out from the leadership crowd.
- [30:38]
Bob Pittman
Develop your eq. A lot of people have plenty of brains, but EQ is do you trust me Do I communicate well? You know, when you walk in a room, do people feel good you're there? Are you responsive to people? Do people know you have a heart? Develop the team, develop the people. Create a system of trust. And it works over time.
- [30:54]
Dan Roth
I'm Dan Roth, LinkedIn's editor in chief. On my podcast this is Working, leaders like Jamie Dimon, Mark Cuban, and Richard Branson share strategies for success and the real lessons that have shaped them. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [31:21]
John Middlekauff
Welcome to Chasing Challenges brought to you by Microsoft. In the NFL, just like in the business world, overcoming obstacles is key to success. Microsoft empowers businesses, decision makers with AI solutions, simplified cloud and data management, and trustworthy, responsible technology to turn challenges into opportunities. In this segment, we explore some of the biggest challenges being faced in the NFL and how they can be overcome. Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise to say, bring it on. This week we're going to discuss the challenge being faced by the Titans. Pretty clear the Titans are comfortable with Cam Ward as a player. His talent, his ability to throw the ball, his accuracy, his playmaking, there is no disputing. If you've watched him play going back to Washington State, his physical attributes are pretty high. I mean, he's, he's got a big time arm, he can move. He's been an intriguing prospect, as I was told from a scouting buddy when you turn on the tape at Incarnate Word. But being a quarterback is about much more than just on the field. You become the face of the organization. And we saw last year my guy, Adam Peters took a lot of heat because he brought all the quarterbacks not named Caleb Williams to topgolf. And he brought them all in at the same time when he brought them on the quote unquote top 30 visitors even though his job because clearly several of them could really play. Honestly, all of them could and was to determine what guy did he like the most because all of them can throw an out route. Some are faster than others. But who do you believe can be the best leader of your organization? Who can handle the pressure? Who could handle the ups and the downs of being an NFL quarterback? Well, anyone listening to this who has ever been a part of an interview situation, whether you are the decision maker or you're involved in the process or when you're on the other side and you're interviewing in front of a lot of people, you know that it's a pretty intense environment and people try to lighten the mood. But like when you're talking about a decision as big as the number one overall pick, and I'm not just talking the 35, 40 million dollars that you're going to give them. Ideally, when you pull the trigger here, when you're the Titans, it's about having my quarterback for the next decade, for the next 15 years to be the face of the franchise. And you look at the Titans, their general manager comes from Kansas City, who just spent a lot of time around Patrick Mahomes and who before that they had a lot of success with Alex Smith. So he has a pretty good feel for obviously the player. I mean, both those two players were very different. Obviously Patrick's a better player, but the people in Brian Callahan, before he got the Titans job, spent years around Joe Burrow. Well, the night before the pro day, the Titans brass, coaches, oc quarterback coach, gm, assistant gm, assistant scouts all went to dinner with Cam Ward. And while we won't talk that much about it because the sweet throws that he had in shorts and T shirts will go viral, that moment, which is not going to be public, is very important because after that dinner, they already went in thinking they're going to take them and they've scouted them pretty heavily. But really spending time around the human being and getting a better feel for his outlook on life, what he values, what he does not really helps crystallize. And I bet after they make the decision here in an upcoming month, they will say, we felt really good about him on film and the player that he was. But after that dinner is when it crystallized for us and that's when the final decision was made. So that's it for this week's chasing challenges. Remember, Microsoft's AI solutions empower you to take bold steps and make informed decisions, sparking new ideas to help drive your business forward. With Microsoft as your trusted partner, you can navigate your journey with confidence, finding innovative solutions and reaching new possibilities. Visit Microsoft.com challengers to learn more. Middle Cough Mailbag. You guys know the drill at John Middlekopf is my Instagram fire in those DMs at John Middlekopf is my Instagram DMs wide open. Fire away and get your questions answered on the show. We will start with Austin during the off season. I see so many accounts talking about pff grades and raz scores. As a former college baseball coach, I do love metrics and stats but to me, if all someone can talk about are these scores grades, I question if they actually know what they're talking about. These are cool but I think the only I think they should only be a part of the puzzle. As a former scout, I'm curious how much stock you take in a guy's metrics and which ones you think are important. I think the number one key to the the scores right like where you rank at your position group historically are comps. So if I get a guy that I think is an excellent prospect, let's just say like a second rounder but his measurables and his test scores are not good, will you go? Well who is his comparison? Has anyone with his these test scores of height, weight, speed, agility, you name it has have never met these numbers. We got to do some reevaluation and vice versa because I think a lot of times you got a lot of good athletes playing college football. So some guys might not be great football players but they do the testing and they're really good. And sometimes those people are poor coaching in college for whatever reason it never materialized. And you can be open to taking those guys late in the draft but how often do we see in the first couple rounds where you go this guy wasn't that good in college but he tests well. And I also think certain individuals set off alarms when you're just kind of a mid prospect like you may be a draftable guy and then you test really well. So I think it just forces you to reevaluate stuff. But like there there are some scores that matter. You can't be a 47 corner. Like that's not going to work. You can't have really really short arms in play tackle. It's going to be impossible right and there's a line of like well are Will Campbell's too short or are there been a couple examples of him being able to do it and he's probably right on the edge. Just like small hands. Small hands at quarterback aren't the end all be all but you do see it come up. Brock Purdy smaller hand struggles to hold the ball in inclement weather. Jared Goff same thing. Derek Carr same thing. It's harder to hold the ball in a driving rainstorm if your hands aren't as big. Now that doesn't mean you can't be good or be successful but I think and then there are also guys that are just really good players but they're just a 6 foot D tackle, right? But if you watch them on tape like Jesus and then you end up getting that guy in the third or fourth round. So I think the scores are Almost like a, you know, I, I use the housing analogy a lot. But like they are the check marks of different things, like how many square foot your house, how many bedrooms, how many bathrooms, how big's your garage. It doesn't mean it, it might not. Check all those boxes. It may be a great house. Just like some of your scores and some of your measurables might not be great. But if you're good on tape, like, yeah, we'll draft you, but you might not get drafted as high. In the best case scenario, you check both boxes, you're an elite player and your measurables and testing scores are out of this world. So I don't think, Listen, this is, this is difficult because you're dealing with human beings and at the end of the day, there's no way to measure who's got that dog in them. And that, that's separates a lot of guys because by the time I mean, we're talking about a guy, listen, the end of a draft is a crapshoot. The sixth, seventh round. But when you're talking about the top hundred guys in a draft, like most of them have played at a really high level, have produced meet a lot of measurables, like what separates those guys over the course of the next seven, eight years, a lot of variables. And if people had the answers, they would never miss. So I think they try to take all those ingredients. The tape is always going to be the most important thing. The scores, the interviews, the interactions, what people have said about you from a scouting standpoint, your coaches, your assistant coaches, your coordinators, your teammates, your hell, your academic advisors. Right. So you just try to factor that all in and make the best decision possible. Because for the most part, especially once you get out of the first round.
- [40:56]
Bob Pittman
Like there are going to be question.
- [40:57]
John Middlekauff
Marks with every player. There are going to be question marks with every player and there are question marks with first round players too. But the longer you go, like, like once you're picking in the late second, third, fourth round, you could pick typically between several guys at every spot. It's hard. And you just try to make the most educated guess you can make. It's why I think teams that draft really well have a really good feel for the type people they like, like the Ravens, they know what they're looking for, right? The Chiefs have a pretty good idea what they're looking for. The Rams now feels like they're pretty dialed on the human as much as the player. Can you make it make sense? I live in a state where you cannot Gamble on the games. But I can gamble if luka will score 30 points or if I think an NFL quarterback will throw a bunch of interceptions. Why is it legal for that to be allowed for us to gamble on that, but not the actual games? I don't know, man. I think I know the companies you're talking about. I've lived in Arizona now for whatever three years, so I have no issues with the DraftKings app. Use it a lot. I think they've been able to fall under the fantasy football category, which it's not fantasy football betting on. How? I mean, that's. I can gamble on that too, on DraftKings, right? I do, I do. Props you can do over unders. I've tried a couple times on basketball points and I've never got it right. Like, oh, Steph Curry, 22.5, I'll hit this easy. And then he's like going into the last five minutes, he's got like 16 points. But I'm with you. It's pretty stupid. Another quick question. I've been hearing a lot of concerns about Genti's height, but is height really a big factor at running back? If anything, wouldn't you want my running back. I wouldn't want my running back to be too tall because he would get tackled easily. Genti being 58 could be an advantage because his lower center of gravity, you see the way he bounces off tackles. I just feel if I was a gm, I would look at a few other factors before height. A lot of the greatest running backs of all time aren't even six foot. Again, this gets back to that score thing. You'd have to look in the history of the NFL, when's the last time a guy under 59 dominated at running back and got drafted really high? There aren't that many comps. So when I look at. He's smaller. But one guy that I look back at was Darren Sprouls, who was a dominant college player who is. I mean, his junior year at Kansas State ran for 2000 yards and 16 touchdowns. Hell, his sophomore year he ran for 1500 yards, 17 touchdowns. His last three years he had 46 touchdowns. And that's just rushing the ball. And he's, he's smaller than Genti. He's 5 foot 6. But like was an elite player. And we discriminated a lot more 20 years ago against height. But he went in the fourth round now, modern day, because Sprouls could catch. He would go on. I mean, he would go on the second day of the draft but you look at these comps, you go, well, think of the star running backs in the NFL just over the last, like, 20 years. Ladanian Tomlinson, Marshall Falk, Adrian Peterson, Saquon McCaffrey. You just look at some of the guys, they weren't short. Like, they weren't five, eight short. Now they might be five 10 or five, 11. I'm with you. You don't need to be Derrick Henry. You don't need to be Adrian Peterson. But Genti is closer to Darren Sprols than he is Saquon Barkley. And the other thing is all these guys I'm listing, right, Adrian Peterson, saquon Barkley, Christian McCaffrey, B. John Robinson, they played against NFL players most weeks. Genty, for the most part, was just playing against New Mexico and Fresno State. Now, he had a great game against Oregon, so that, that really works in his favor. But if you want to take him in the first round, I'm not arguing against taking this guy in the first round. We are talking. I get asked about, like, should the Raiders take him at 6 overall? Should the Bears take him at 10 overall? And I just say, hey, we got to pump the brakes. And again, if he becomes a superstar, no one will say anything. But if he's just okay or just even just a solid player, that pick will look insane. And that's, that's. That's my only take. I am pro. He was my favorite player to watch this year. He was awesome. I went out of my way to watch Boise State play. What he was doing was stupid, but, like, playing New Mexico, playing San Diego State just isn't the same as playing Penn State every week. And we saw now, granted, his offensive line, you know, if he would have. I would feel much better about Genti, and I respect him for doing this. He stayed at Boise and his coach even said he passed up a lot of money. I think they paid him like 300 grand, which, again, is a lot. He was being offered, like, I think seven figures to go to the sweet schools, the schools, like in the Final Four. And if he had done what he did, even 70, 80% at Texas or at Alabama or at Ohio State or wherever, I think you would feel much more Oregon, much more confident about taking him really high because every single week, the level of competition, and maybe he's proven he's awesome. Now, this guy got banged up, but I was around when I was at Fresno State, Ryan Matthews, who was a fucking tank, who was 5 11, just jacked, I mean, 220 pounds and could run a 4 4. And when he was healthy, dominated whoever we played. And we, you know, I was there. We were playing the Brian Kelly, Cincinnati teams, ucla, Wisconsin, like playing good teams. Boise State, who at the time was like a top 10 program. And I think Ryan ran for like 200 yards against them. But then he got to the NFL and he got hurt a lot. And maybe he was just a guy that was going to be injured a lot or maybe it's like, well, he never, you know, he, if he would have played at like in the Pac 12 or the Big 10, maybe his body would have been more accustomed to it. I just bring that up because I know those are the questions being asked. And I feel like I'm going to come off as a hater and I am not. I love the player, but I think taking him really high in the draft is insane. It really is because I liked when the Lions again, bad draft a little like this. And Jameer Gibbs, who you know was five, nine and a half, 200 pounds now he ran a four three six. So his college production looked nothing like Genti was not nearly as good. He started at Georgia Tech and then where I think he backed up Jordan Mason who the 49ers just traded to Minnesota. So he was part. And then he transferred to Alabama where he was like a, you know, part time player. I mean played a lot but didn't run for a thousand yards, but caught 44 balls. So when you look at Oshin Genti, who I don't think ran at the combine, I don't know when his pro day is. Yeah, he didn't do any of that stuff. Now he's thicker than Jameer, but Jameer went 12. Elite speed. Elite speed and can really catch the ball. Smaller player in a little, you know, 10, little taller, but essentially very similar sizes. If you tell me Ashton Genty runs a 43 6, you can take him at 12, I have no problem. And listen, he's clearly pretty fast. Jer Gibbs flying 436 NFL combine not bad. That's how you get drafted. 12. Now the here's the other thing the Lions did. They trade it from 6 to 12. So they essentially got Gibbs and.
- [49:00]
Nikki Glaser
AI is redefining what's possible for your business. Are you up to the challenge? Microsoft is helping leaders like you get AI ready faster with unified data and simplified platform management, unlocking up to 150% improved output across industries. Leaders are turning to Microsoft's AI tools and guidance to rise to the challenge. For the NBA, that means using AI powered insights to deliver more personalized fan experiences. For BMW, it means innovating their development process safely and securely. And for Lego House, it means creating new interactive experiences for people to explore. With Microsoft's trustworthy AI tools and guidance, you can drive greater impact. Business leaders Microsoft surveyed saw an average of 3.7 times ROI per $1 invested in generative AI. Whatever challenge comes next, let Microsoft help you keep pushing forward. For more details, visit Microsoft.com challengers we.
- [50:01]
Jeremy Hobson
Live in a divided country.
- [50:02]
John Middlekauff
I am a lifelong Republican with all.
- [50:05]
Jeremy Hobson
Kinds of different people.
- [50:06]
John Middlekauff
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [50:09]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [50:17]
Bob Pittman
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [50:19]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.
- [50:24]
Bob Pittman
Thanks for having me.
- [50:25]
Jeremy Hobson
Jeremy Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [50:27]
John Middlekauff
Thanks for having me.
- [50:28]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [50:33]
Bob Pittman
Hi, my name is Venkat.
- [50:34]
John Middlekauff
I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia and.
- [50:36]
Jeremy Hobson
When you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [50:45]
John Middlekauff
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [50:53]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [50:59]
Unknown
Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to share my podcast with you. Math and Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing this week I'm talking to the CEO of Moderna, Stephan Bonsel, about how he led his team through unprecedented times to create, test and distribute a COVID vaccine all in less than a year.
- [51:21]
Bob Pittman
It becomes a human decision to decide to throw by the window your business.
- [51:25]
John Middlekauff
Strategy and to do what you think.
- [51:27]
Bob Pittman
Is the right thing for the world.
- [51:29]
Unknown
Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math and the ever important creative spark, the Magic. Listen to math and magic stories from the frontiers of Marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts are We wherever you get your podcast.
- [51:44]
Dan Roth
Ever wonder what it would be like to be mentored by today's top business leaders? My podcast this Is Working can help with that. Here's some advice from Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JPMorgan Chase on standing out from the leadership crowd.
- [51:57]
Bob Pittman
Develop your EQ A lot of people have plenty of brains, but EQ is do you trust me? Do I communicate well? You know, when you walk in a room, do people feel good you're there? Are you responding, responsive to people? Do people know you have a heart? Develop the team, develop the people. Create a system of trust. And it works over time.
- [52:14]
Dan Roth
I'm Dan Roth, LinkedIn's editor in chief. On my podcast this is Working, leaders like Jamie Dimon, Mark Cuban, and Richard Branson share strategies for success and the real lessons that have shaped them. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [52:39]
John Middlekauff
Do you think the NFL or college football is a better business? Personally, I think it's college payroll. Including NIL isn't even comparable. College football has the same revenue channels, but the NFL makes dramatically more money. Plus, college football is all split up. And college football as it's set up right now, I have to give money to women's soccer and men's baseball and lacrosse. The NFL makes dramatically more, only has 32 teams in the partnership and doesn't give any of the money to any other sports. There is no Such thing as Title 9 in the NFL. Title 9 is known as the owner's yacht. So I, it's, they're not comparable businesses. There are way more teams in college, a lot more teams that don't generate the revenue that gets a leech off it. The NFL is just, it's just an incredible business right now, man. There's no way around it. Talk about this on the pod. So he sent me this draftkings picture of Rick Patino, how everywhere he went, within a couple years, they dominated. People often disregard basketball coaches as the least important in sports. Some people are just different, though. And this is an example of why you need to cut checks for certain guys, because the ROI is insane. I think college basketball, I think the NBA pushes back on one. Baseball would be number one. Like the manager doesn't matter in 2025, the front office runs the teams and just based on the money, you know, a baseball manager makes like what a wide receiver coach in college football makes. But no one's ever argued in basketball in college. Calipari Izzo. I mean, look at the coaches in the Sweet 16. Coach K forever Beheim. I think college basketball coaches were always really, really famous because they were really, really important. So I, I, I, I, I hear you. I don't think anyone, I think it's more the NBA now a good coach Matters in the NBA, but you would never remember the argument. There was like a sports talk radio argument about Brad Stevens or a top five player. This was like a decade ago. Like, no, you would take the top player, but even like Eric Spoelstra. Look at Eric Spoelstra. He's a bad team. They suck. But you need good players. You need star players in basketball. Has Kyler Murray reached the ceiling forever being a dynamic player that can't take his team to the next level? Or do we chalk his limitations up to poor coaching and lack of supporting talent? I think he kind of is what he is. I just think he's a pretty fickle player. If you catch him on the right day, he could beat anyone in the league. He can play a half a football that's as good as Mahomes or Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. When you, when you. When he's on. On individual drives, he is unstoppable, scrambling around, making throws. I would say he is. His talent level is really high, but his consistency level is really low. And, you know, only people around him can really tell, like, is it coaching? Is it just. I do think whenever you're really short, and this is again, the hype thing. I heard David Andrews, I saw this clip, the former Patriot Center. He's like the thing that blows you away when you get to the NFL is how enormous. And he's like, when I came into the NFL, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, Philip Rivers, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, how huge these quarterbacks are. I remember when I met Carson Palmer, I was like, is this guy an NBA player? He looks like 6, 10 now. He was like 6, 6, but he's so thick. These guys are huge. And for Kyler to be as good as he is at five foot nine is a testament to how elite his just athleticism is. And he's got a great arm, too. Sometimes shorter guys, you know, arm can be hit or miss, but yeah, I think. I think he just kind of is what he is now. I think the question is, can you stretch out his good football a little longer? But I don't think he'll ever be in the elite category. I think he can have an individual season that is pretty dynamic. That one. The one year when they should have probably won the division, but they blew it at the end. He threw 24 touchdowns. He actually was really good to start his career. His second year, 2612 and another 11 touchdowns on the ground. His third year in 21, 24 touchdowns, 10 picks with five touchdowns on the ground. He's always giving you 5, 3, 35 his lev. His 11 touchdown years, a little bit of an outlier. He actually, he kind of gets sacked a lot. He missed a lot of games, so his first two years never got hurt. Second year, missed a couple games. Third year, I think that's when he tears ACL and then he comes back. He actually was durable last year. Played in every game. They went 8, 9. So he's fully healthy last year. 8 and 9, 68%. So he's pretty accurate. 21 and 11. They just, I think he'd like a little more explosion on offense. I mean, that's why they drafted Marvin Harrison. I think. I think he's kind of the worst spot. Like he's, he's definitely better than a lot of guys. But is he good enough to be paying a ton of money and be your franchise quarterback? Probably not, but you could do way worse. Like, I mean, eight, nine, Some of those losses were definitely on him, but some of those wins were on him too. He's just, he's a hard to player to kind of like describe, which is good and bad if you're a Cardinal fan. As a Seahawk fan, our GM has been heavily criticized for not taking linemen by many people in the fan base. Either he's not spending big money in free agency or whiffing on our offensive line draft picks. As a former scout, what are the most important aspects to look for in scouting interior offensive linemen? And do you agree with Schneider's free agent philosophy of not reaching for need? Well, when you reach in free agency, you got to pay a lot. So if I, if I'm reaching for a guard, it's going to cost me $22 million a year. Look at the Packers. They just bought Aaron Banks. Aaron Banks is like an average starter at best and they're paying a ton of money. So I, I'm not against his philosophy at all. I do think with guards and centers, your scheme matters. Now he's got Kubiak. They run a zone running scheme, so they're going to look for athletes more than power maulers. And the key with a guard or center in the, you know, kind of the zone running scheme is being able to move your feet and position, positional block. Now luckily, you know, it's easier to find those guys than like Larry Allen or Logan Mankins or, you know, someone like that. But like, I think a lot of people would tell you that the offensive line development in college has never been worse because when a guy's decent he gets a bunch of money, he's moving schools, and his development is just. I don't want to say it's been slowed or stopped, but it's just, it's not the same as it used to be. So it's more difficult to find. And then at the end of the day, like guards and centers, like D tackles. I think the number one thing you would hear talking to head coaches, GMs, coordinators, O line coaches, like, toughness, toughness, toughness, mindset, toughness. You know, the one thing you saw with that Eagles run is like, Jurgen's back is not working, Dickerson's leg is like falling off and he like wouldn't come out of the game. And then if I remember correctly, like, did Jurgensen go back in the game when he didn't start? And then Dickerson is like, these guys, you got to be tough as nails to play garden center. When I think of Jason Kelsey or I'll never forget when I was a GA at Fresno State, Coach Hill had Jim Otto talked to the team. I've told this before and he did like a Q and A after he gave like a pump up speech. I think he passed away pretty recently. And someone on the team asked him like the toughest player he ever went against. You know, I mean, the Raiders were playing like Mean Joe Green every single year in the, in the peak of that rivalry in the 70s. Mean Joe Green, I think widely considered one of, if not the best defensive tackles. They also played the Purple People Eaters in the Super Bowl. They won. Pretty sure they had a guy named Deacon Jones. And Jim Otto said, by far the toughest guy that I've ever played against is the guy I see in the morning when I look in the mirror. I just think kind of like wrestlers, I need my guards and centers tough. And there's a different level of toughness in the NFL. And it's just hard to quantify the Cardinals joke of a franchise. You're not wrong, but they are my team play gm. What can they do to be relevant? I don't think they're a joke of a franchise in the sense of like, they got a real. Jonathan Gannon's a real coach. I think they've. They're not. It's more the owner. I think it's not viewed very highly. But like, from a football standpoint, like they got good players. They were. They've been competitive the last couple years with Kyler. They've had some moments, you know, Bruce Arians and Kyme, like, they were a real franchise, they were really good there for a couple years. So I think anytime that you're just like, it almost feels like they're in a relationship, you know you're not going to marry her. But in a weird way you're like living together so you're essentially married and you can't really break up with her, but you're kind of stuck. You don't even like each other. It's almost like your roommates. That's kind of the Kyler situation. I know they've spoken about it positively but like I think we have to acknowledge like they're in this weird spot with him and it could get way worse. Like let's just say they traded him to whoever. Let's just say next off season they trade him because they go 8, 9 again and he has a similar season. They just trade him for like second round pick and move on and just reset. There's a chance they're way worse at quarterback for a while, but like that is not going to be good enough. But think about the best two teams you've had. Carson Palmer was healthy high end player the one year Kurt Warner, obviously Hall of Famer. But I think when you're in business with Kyler, it's just a tough spot because you're paying a premium. But you're not always getting a premium. This isn't a football question, but just curious on your take. I'm 24 years old. I'm aspiring film director, currently living in Nashville, but my lease expires in January so often that I hear I should move to Los Angeles or New York in order to get my foot in the door in the industry. But I feel like maybe I don't fully grasp that advice. Moving somewhere does not automatically grant you success, does it? For people who give that kind of advice, what do you think they are actual. What do you think are the actual tangible benefits to moving to one of these places? Actionable things that would allow me to have a plan before moving out there. Curious your thoughts? Lifelong Steelers fan, Big fan. Well, congrats, man. Follow your dreams, bro. Do. I'm being dead serious. That's really cool. Listen, I don't know the specifics on your industry forever. It was like if you wanted to work in Hollywood, movies, tv, whatever, like people were moving to la, aspiring actors and actresses just to do whatever they could to be in the vicinity of those humans. And I think I remember three or four years ago, my brother's college roommate works for this big almond farmer. And this almond farmer had this huge Party in the Fresno area. And he tried to get Stevie Nicks to come play. He couldn't, and he got Joan Jett instead. She was freaking awesome. This was like a party for like 2000 people. And me and Jeff went and he also had John Party, who's. I don't want to say like a country music superstar, but he's pretty big deal. I think he's pretty good. He's. He's a country musician who's like, legit. And he also played the party. So it was he, him and Joan Jett for a couple thousand people. And there was an after party that me and my brother got it kind of like snuck our way into because it was only, like, not that many people in Russell's office. And John Party was in there with some other people. And eventually everyone left and it was just me, Jeff, John Party, and like a 12 pack. And we were just drinking, talking. And he told this story about when he was coming up and he was from, you know, kind of the Sacramento area. And someone, this guy, this businessman who eventually told John, if you do not leave this area and move to Nashville, you might as well just go into construction or do something else. You will never make it. So he picked up and he left and he went to Nashville and the rest is history. And I think the one thing he said is, like, I just got to be around music producers, people in the industry I could just meet, whether through events or whether it was just playing places and have those people attending. Now, in a situation like you, if you're a movie producer, right, or director, or you want to work in that world, part of quote unquote, going to la, do you just walk up to the three or four big production operations and knock on the door and try to get a job? Like, are you any more likely seeing those people because they work in an office? They're not out, like, recruiting in the town for someone like you? Or does it even matter? Can you just find a way to send your stuff to those people? Now you could argue, do those people hold the same amount of power as they once did? Would it be more important to get in front of the guy at Netflix, of the guy at Amazon, of the guy ON Whoever runs NBC's Peacock? And are you any more likely doing that through the Internet than how are you ever going to get in front of these people? So I hear you, like, it's easy to play devil's advocate and go, how do I get in front of this human being? And I would say, in 2025, you'd have to be pretty specific, right? I don't think you would just knock on any door and a lot of these people, the business is dramatically changing. You could also argue if you're able to find a way to produce, I don't know, your own little mini movies or whatever and put them on YouTube. You are able to create things now from anywhere in America that can. You can just send the link to those people through LinkedIn that you could hustle without being there. So I think there are pros and cons to it. I think 20, 30 years ago you would have no choice. Like, if you wanted to get into the industry, you would have to gravitate in your field to one of those places. You could argue in country music. Now you don't have to move to Nashville right away. I could become a star on TikTok on Instagram and be discovered that way. I don't need to play on Broadway, right? So I think the world's changed because of the Internet now. I don't exactly know your story of like, are you already producing stuff that's already available that I could click on a link or have you not done anything and you just have ideas down? Because if you're at that stage, you probably would want to get some sort of mentorship working for someone. But in my experience, like, I could never have made it to the NFL if I did not get the opportunity to work at Fresno State. And the way I got my. My cousin had played there, he's a long snapper. But during spring break one year, I had been calling around, tried to get a gig. I just drove to Fresno and went up to the office and met the guy. And that's how our kind of relationship started. So sometimes in a world of like emails and DMS and all that stuff, there is, you know, value to meeting people. Why couldn't you just, I don't know your financial situation, just go to LA or New York, rent the cheapest hotel possible, spend a week and just go knock on some doors or attack, attack it that way as a person instead of moving out there. So I. I would argue in 2025, the old school, I got to go there is not as important as it once was, but there always is a value of, I don't know, being in the vicinity of a human being. I think. Is there any sort of convention, you know, like for football, for example, the combine things like that where people trying to get involved, coaching, you know, clinics and things where people go to, to meet people, shake hands, develop and network. I would say those things are pretty important that don't force you to move. But I don't think your career just ends if you don't move there by any means. So I guess that's a long winded way of saying that, like I don't think necessarily you have to go. But there are a lot of variables that I don't know about your situation. For me to give you advice. I do think when I first got into the media, when I was doing radio, the more events I went to, the more people I met and the more my life just or my career, my professional life expanded. So when I first left football in 13 and for 14, 15, 16, constantly going to obviously Niners and Raiders practices. But I went to a ton of Warrior games, I went to a ton of Giants games. I was just around. So there's always a benefit. And it's not apples to apples to your question. But just being around, especially if you're young, that's the other thing you got going for you. You're young, it gets harder. Once you get my age, it's easy to be like, yeah, I'm not that interested in doing that when you're young, assuming you're single, kind of times on your side, opportunities on your side. And like I said, even if you don't need to move, just like look at some shitty hotel, scrape together, see if you can, you know, if you can get a couple hundred bucks and just, I guess you got to fly there too. But hell, maybe you can take the bus and just go for like a week and just go guerrilla warfare, map out a plan. Like I'm, I need to meet again. I don't know your industry. These three or four people, even if I meet their assistants, right? Or, or someone in their vicinity, how do I just make an impression? Like 30 second elevator pitch. Even if I only get in front of one of the five people with connection to that person.
- [71:45]
Nikki Glaser
AI is redefining what's possible for your business. Are you up to the challenge? Microsoft is helping leaders like you get AI ready faster with unified data and simplified platform management, unlocking up to 150% improved output across industries. Leaders are turning to Microsoft's AI tools and guidance to rise to the challenge. For the NBA, that means using AI powered insights to deliver more personalized fan experiences. For BMW, it means innovating their development process safely and securely. And for LEGO House, it means creating new interactive experiences for people to explore. With Microsoft's trustworthy AI tools and guidance, you can drive greater impact business leaders. Microsoft surveyed saw an average of 3.7 times ROI per $1 invested in generative AI. Whatever challenge comes next, let Microsoft help you keep pushing forward. For more details, visit Microsoft.com challengers we.
- [72:46]
Jeremy Hobson
Live in a divided country.
- [72:47]
John Middlekauff
I am a lifelong Republican with all.
- [72:50]
Jeremy Hobson
Kinds of different people.
- [72:51]
John Middlekauff
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [72:54]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [73:02]
Bob Pittman
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [73:04]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.
- [73:09]
Bob Pittman
Thanks for having me, Jeremy.
- [73:10]
Jeremy Hobson
Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [73:12]
John Middlekauff
Thanks for having me.
- [73:13]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [73:18]
Bob Pittman
Hi, my name is Venkat.
- [73:19]
John Middlekauff
I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia and.
- [73:21]
Jeremy Hobson
We when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [73:30]
John Middlekauff
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [73:38]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [73:44]
Unknown
Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to share my podcast with you, Math and stories from the frontiers of markets. This week I'm talking to the CEO of Moderna, Stephane Bonsell, about how he led his team through unprecedented times to create, test and distribute a COVID vaccine, all in less than a year.
- [74:06]
Bob Pittman
It becomes a human decision to decide to throw by the window your business strategy and to do what you think is the right thing for the world.
- [74:14]
Unknown
Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math, and the ever important creative spark, the magic. Listen to math and magic stories from the frontiers of Marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [74:29]
Dan Roth
Ever wonder what it would be like to be mentored by today's top business leaders? My podcast, this Is Working can help with that. Here's some advice from Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JPMorgan Chase, on standing out from the leadership crowd.
- [74:41]
Bob Pittman
Develop your eq. A lot of people have plenty of brains, but EQ is do you trust me? Do I communicate well? You know, when you walk in a room, do people feel good? You're there? Are you responsive to people? Do People know you have a heart. Develop the team, develop the people, create a system of trust. And it works over time.
- [74:58]
Dan Roth
I'm Dan Roth, LinkedIn's editor in chief. On my podcast this is Working, leaders like Jamie Dimon, Mark Cuban and Richard Branson share strategies for success and the real lessons, lessons that have shaped them. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [75:24]
John Middlekauff
As an Eagles fan, I was sad to see Milton Williams go, but I get there was no way Philly was gonna pay him that that said, do you think they'll pay Jalen Carter if he has another year like the one? And what will he cost? The answer is yes and a lot of money. If he keeps playing like he's playing, he'll be one of, if not the highest paid players in the league. And his agent, Rosenhaus. Now he's done a lot of deals with Howie, but it will not come cheap. So I would say an astronomical amount of money. I think ideally the Eagles probably would play it out four years. It'd be interesting if he has another sweet year. He's like an all probably. Will he want to get paid after his third year? Question for the pod do you think there is a higher chance that One of the second tier quarterbacks, Gabriel McCord Dart in this year's draft has more success if they go to a better situation in the later rounds than Ward or Sanders in the first? Of course I would. I would imagine if we look back on the draft, a ton of the second tier guys become really good players. I mean think about some of the starters over the last decade. Purdy, seventh round pick, great situation. Dak Prescott, fourth round pick, great situation. Cousins fourth round pick, not a great situation, but kind of worked out. Russell Wilson, third round pick. Like what if you're Jackson Dart and you go to the Rams and you go to the Rams and you get to sit for a year behind Stafford and the next year start. That's a much better situation than the Titans or the Giants. I'm sure this idea has been considered, maybe even tried, but I can't for the life of me think why the current NFL rules. Someone wouldn't try this. Imagine having a uniquely tall player, someone like Shaq playing tight end. I would just tell that player to run five yards, turn around, have the quarterback throw the ball high enough only the tight end could grab it. How would that not be unstoppable? Again, I can't imagine this idea has never been considered, but I'm curious as your take I would imagine it's been discussed that guy. Let's just pick a seven footer even if he's not as big as Shaq. But let's Kevin Garnett, Anthony Davis, okay, he runs five yards, turns around. There's never been an easier human to tackle. And I'm taking you out of your legs like you're going to get injured. So I think it's in theory it's easy to say it out loud and kind of make some success. But part of being a good tight end, Kelsey Kittle, Mark Andrews, whoever, you know, Cronk, Tony Gonzalez, Shannon Sharpe, you're like great with the ball in your hands. You make moves, you can run routes. So like do those guys have the change of direction at their height? And I also think they're very, very easy to tackle. So I think that's a problem. Very easy to tackle and how fast are they? Right. Relative to NFL players? I think there's a certain height as an NFL player that actually is a disadvantage advantage. That would be my. Just take. I. I haven't thought that much about it. I hear what you're saying and maybe it'd be effective but just you're going to have a roster spot for a guy that just runs four or five yard routes because you're right if you can throw, can the guy catch. If you think about most of the tight ends that have been basketball players, they've actually been short relative to basketball players. Right. They're like six three to six five. Antonio Gates. I'm a fan of Ryan Pols and what he has been able to build in Chicago. The wins haven't been there, but this may be the best team we've had since the Lovey days. While he's had some misses Claypool Nate Davis, he has great hits and that has given the Bears their best shot at relevancy. While our team has been tailored to fit Ben Johnson style, polls hasn't been getting the credit I think he deserves. It seems as though everyone has given the credit to Ben as if he's building out the roster himself. I don't doubt the role Ben Johnson is most likely playing in the roster moves, but I feel that the guy who is negotiating and making them happen deserves more credit. Or am I wrong and polls has had his role diminished with the Ben Johnson show? Yeah, I mean I think part of it is the carryover from last year. So the stink of the previous season. They fired Eber Fluss on Thanksgiving, right? They. So the coach has been out of sight, out of mind. For so long that the hype of last year a lot revolved around Ryan Pols. I get, I considered it the greatest trade in the history of sports for what he got from Carolina. And then the season you're like well still pretty good trade. You would redo it. But it's like we still gotta let this thing play out how well it works out for the Bears. And listen he's, he definitely has not been bad. Like they, they had a lot of talent on the field last year and now with their offensive line it's much better. And I'm with you, I mean with how bad their offensive line was, whether Ben Johnson was their coach or me or you was their coach, they were going to trade for some offensive line help or sign offensive lineup. But I do think listen, the Caleb thing was the easiest thing to ever do, right? And he didn't even entertain drafting the other guys. Shouldn't he have like been seriously entertaining Jaden Daniels and Drake May, shouldn't he have brought them in and he never did. And then the Roma Dunes a pick I like Rome, I am pro Roma Dunes. But like the Bears should have not drafted Roman Dunes. They should have drafted an offensive lineman and there were a ton on the board and that's a big mistake. So I do think the Caleb thing, like a lot of pressures on Caleb and if Jaden continues to play well, like you could have taken them. So I'm not going to say it's over. They've played one season but that one season it's not like Jaden Daniels played on some loaded team when scouting running backs. How do you weigh the double edged sword of strength of schedule versus mileage? Genti played in the Mountain west and didn't face top defensive talent but also probably has more gas in the tank due to not facing SEC defensive linemen. Does it all even out and make conference irrelevance for mid to top tier running backs. P.S. can we get a save it or save it or shave it for Jed York? Yeah, I mean it's really, really hard because when you excel in the Big ten or the SEC as a running back you are playing a ton of NFL defensive players like I'm pro Shador Sanders. But the success he had playing quarterback in the Big 12 was not against a lot of NFL players. And while the Big 12 is a Power 4 conference from a talent standpoint, it's not great on defense. So how many defensive linemen, linebackers and corners are you playing that are going to go to the NFL? So you're you're evaluating them. It's like, well, these aren't NFL players. Well, when you play in the SEC or the Big Ten, like, every single week, you're playing a bunch of NFL players. So it's an easier evaluation. There's no right or wrong way to do it because we've seen a lot of guys not playing big conferences and go on to excel in the NFL. But I think, like, if you just expect Genty to, like, break all these tackles against Fred Warner and Luke Keakley, and it's like, I know Luke's retired, but you know what I mean? It's probably not going to happen. So, like, the dominance and his. I remember a scout texting me during the season. They're like, his highlight tape is stupid. And you just go to YouTube, type in Ashton Genty, 2024. He looks like a video game player. I do think some of those. No one's arguing his talent. He is a elite talent. He's special talent. But, like, the guys he's doing it against aren't a bunch of NFL guys. So I don't have a great answer for you. I think you put more stock into when guys excel at the highest level against the best players. And if you dominate on offense in the sec, you're going to be pretty good on offense. Probably like Brock Bowers, unstoppable in the sec. Pretty good in the NFL like that. It's usually sometimes in college, you never really know, right? In Mountain west or, you know, when the PAC 12 was down, it's kind of hit or miss. You're taking an educated guess. So Ashton Genti could be a Pro Bowler. Like, it wouldn't shock me if you tell me he makes two Pro Bowls. And it wouldn't shock me at all if you say he never makes a Pro Bowl. You know, when Saquon came out, it went like, this guy's a Pro bowl talent. I would say the same thing about Bijan Robinson. Now, there are other variables, how well your teams run all this stuff. But, like, you watch these guys are freak shows. Like, I don't put Genty on that level. Same thing with McCaffrey. Like, wait, this guy can play receiver and he's like a dominant inside runner as well. How's this not going to work well? Injuries. Because when he's healthy, dominates. Okay, last question. What are the realistic expectations for Arch Manning? The Quinn Ewers era had moments, but the definition of highs and lows. My expectations aren't that high. Now the team is going to be stacked and I think year one he can play like a JJ McCarthy type role now. He's a better athlete than JJ McCarthy. But one thing I think people don't quite understand and maybe it improves dramatically this off season he does not have some huge arm. So like when you watch Cam Ward or Caleb Williams or Jaden Drake may like they were throwing seeds. I think Arch is much more closer to Peyton than he is Eli in terms of arm strength. So I think the hype on Arch is outrageous. Anything less than like superstardom is going to feel like a letdown. I think it's going to be a little difficult. So my expectation, I think he's going to be a good player. This team so stacked. Like I wouldn't just put all my money on him being the future number one overall pick based on what I saw him throwing the ball velocity. Now it's not the end all be all but he plays in the sec so over the next, assuming he's going to play at minimum couple years in college which I would expect play next year and then another year he's going to be playing a lot of NFL players at lsu, at Alabama, at A and M, at Georgia, at Florida, like he's going up against the cream of the crop. So we're going to know, right? And yeah I would say my expectations this upcoming year are tempered and I honestly feel it's like unfair. The hype on this guy might be the biggest ever because of the buildup of his family name. Other guys, they just got to play. So like the hype on whoever Tebow or Caleb Williams or Luck happened as they were playing. It was like oh this is the greatest prospect of all time Trevor Lawrence. But it was like while they were playing all this hype on Arch Manning, it's like he's what had a couple spot starts for Quinn yours he's barely played. Came in against Georgia in a blowout. Like it's, it's tough. Really good athlete, arm strength. I gotta see it. I, I gotta see it and I mean I think he's just talked about like he's a future number one overall pick now size check clearly character high level cat like the way teammate the way I've read articles. Clearly an impressive guy. How he throws it. I, I'm fascinated to see he's in an incredible spot. I mean the team over the next couple of years is going to be it's southern version of Ohio State, unlimited money, sweet roster, skilled dudes. So he's got, he's got awesome play caller. He's in an incredible spot. But the hype for a guy that's, it's hard. I mean, for every Cooper flag, it's like, the hype, the hype, the hype. Then he shows up. You're like, jesus. And he just dominates number one overall pick. There are a lot of people that go the other way. And I think the factor, like Arch, a huge part of his hype, which was out of his control, was just his name. Would he have been this, would we be discussing him if his name was Arch Johnson? Arch, Arch Williamson? Arch Middle cough? No chance. No chance. Doesn't mean he can't become a great player. But I, I don't know, I, I'm excited. Like, I can't wait to watch him. I'm a big, big fan of the Manning family. But I, I, I think the hype, I mean, it feels like he's talked about, like he's just a better player than like all the number one picks over the last, like, 15 years. Anything less than arch being, like, consensus number one pick feels like it's going to be a disappointment. That's all I'm saying. I feel like it's unfair. How's it, how's he going to live up to that? I don't know. Adios.
- [88:25]
Dan Roth
The volume.
- [88:29]
John Middlekauff
This is Nikki Glaser from the Nikki Glaser podcast. Have you guys seen this new commercial from Stand up to All Hate? It's basically Snoop Dogg and Tom Brady going back and forth with reasons that they hate each other. But then when you really listen to them, the reasons for the hate are just so stupid. I don't know. This, this commercial really got me. It's a strong reminder that hate in our country continues to be out of control. So join us at iHeart in standing up to It. If you see hate, speak up, Call it out. Your voice is a powerful tool in this fight. You can learn more by following hat's upwithhate.
- [89:01]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week, we hear from ordinary Americans from all across over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [89:31]
John Middlekauff
I was always around. It Hollywood saved me on this week's episode of Eating While Broke, a podcast presented by the Black Effect Podcast Network.
- [89:38]
Nikki Glaser
Nick Cannon joins us to discuss his journey from teenage comedian to entertainment mogul.
- [89:43]
John Middlekauff
Now I do the super dad content with my kid and everything that people go viral for making millions of dollars on YouTube I was doing in the 90s. Listen to Eating While Broke from the.
- [89:52]
Nikki Glaser
Black Effect podcast network on America's number one podcast network, iHeart.
- [89:57]
John Middlekauff
Follow Eating While Broke and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app.
- [90:00]
Nikki Glaser
Today in 2020, a group of young women found themselves in an AI fueled nightmare.
- [90:07]
John Middlekauff
Someone was posting photos. It was just me naked. Well, not me, but me with someone else's body parts.
- [90:14]
Nikki Glaser
This is Levittown, a new podcast from iHeart podcasts Bloomberg and Kaleidoscope about the rise of deepfake pornography and the battle to stop it. Listen to Levittown on Bloomberg's Big Take podcast. Find it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.