← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
3 & Out - Abdul Cater is legit, Lebron-Stephen A. feud, Fugazi Friday
01:10:05
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- [00:00]
John Middlekauff
You can count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile Keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com heap and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Acquired card has no cash access and expires in six months. AI is redefining what's possible for your business. With more unique challenges to solve and higher stakes than ever, Microsoft helps you stay ahead. Our trustworthy AI tools and guidance can empower leaders like you to drive greater impact. And with Azure's simplified platform management, we're helping businesses go further faster, unlocking up to 150% improved output. Whatever challenge comes next, let Microsoft help you keep pushing forward. For more details, visit Microsoft.com challengers in.
- [01:09]
Larison Campbell
Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets 7,000 bodies.
- [01:14]
John Middlekauff
Out there or more.
- [01:16]
Larison Campbell
A forgotten asylum cemetery.
- [01:18]
John Middlekauff
It was my family's mystery.
- [01:20]
Larison Campbell
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep until it's not I'm Larison Campbell and this is under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:37]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:09]
Larison Campbell
The Volum.
- [02:23]
John Middlekauff
What is going on everybody? How are we doing? Hopefully you are doing great and enjoying this Fugazi Friday because that is what we are about to attack and luckily there's a couple of things going on football wise. I was like I'm going to break down every Stephen a LeBron James angle right here, right now. That will not be the case but there is some pro day information that came out. We got Abdul Carter, who many consider the best player in the draft or one of them with Travis, got some injuries going on right now, has a shoulder, was not able to participate in the in his pro day though. Is that covering up for the stress factor that they found in his right foot. So for great of a talent as he is, we do need to. We will dive into that. Ashton Genty had his pro day, the star Boise State running back, but he did not run. Is that a big deal? Something LeBron James did say. And this is like a theme in the NBA. They love just kind of taking shots at the older guys. Like the skies in the 70s and the 80s, they couldn't cut it today. And if we played back then, we'd score 700 points a game. Why doesn't that happen in the NFL? Because it doesn't. And I want to dive into why. I actually think that the NFL is the opposite and their players go out of their way, which I think benefits the sport of kind of tying in the different generations. And then a fugazi that I saw a week ago. I've been thinking about this for a long time. It's always driven me nuts. Something in a movie, den of thieves to kind of entertaining, not gonna lie, but something that happened in that movie, which happens in a lot of action movies that I've just always, I've always noticed and it always kind of bothered me. But it is what it is. We will dive into that fugazi and little Middlekop mailbag. At John Middlekopf. At John Middlekopf. Is the Instagram fire in those DMs. Get your questions answered here on the show. Very, very easy to do. Fire in my Instagram DMs and make sure you subscribe to the podcast. Make sure subscribe to the YouTube channel. A lot of content up right now. Type my name into YouTube. You can find the channel, subscribe. But before we dive in to some football, you know, I got to tell you about my friends, my partners and the official ticketing app of this podcast. And you know, they go by game time and listen, I've been using ticketing apps for a long, long time and I swear by these guys. And like I said, I'm not just saying this. I've lived it. I've gone to more events because of game time over the last several years than I have probably in the previous five years. It's easy to use. I can find any event, obviously, sports, comedy shows, concerts. Get out, do something fun, enjoy yourself. Trust me, sometimes I can be pretty boring and I can just work and stay home and live in a little bubble of my house. Once you get out and just enjoy yourself for a night, it makes you feel better and you will not regret it. So whether that's a college game, a pro game, a concert, a comedy show. I'm telling you, take the guesswork out of buying tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account and use the code JOHN for $20 off. Your first purchase terms apply. Again, create an account, redeem the code JOHN for $20 off. Download the Gametime app today. Last minute tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. I had this clip sent to me today from a, from a buddy and it was number 11 at Penn State in a spring practice doing some like stack and shed drills. And I immediately thought, why is Abdul Carter taking part in spring practice with Penn State? And then I had to click on it and I realized, no, that's not Abdul Carter wearing 11. That is lavar Arrington's son, who is a true freshman and looks exactly like Abdul Carter and Micah Parsons. Say whatever you want about James Franklin. From a schematic standpoint, no one is going to confuse the guy with Bill Walsh or Bill Belichick, but. And obviously lavar went to school at Penn State, but that guy can recruit some pass rushers because this kid I'm going to go after I get done recording this podcast, watch some YouTube highlights. Looks like, I mean, just from a body type standpoint, looks like a future top 10 pick. You put on 11 at that program. The future is bright because Abdul Carter, you know, sometimes, you know, drafts are different, right? You, you, well, you evaluate the draft based on that current year. Like if you go three, it's based on that current crop of guys. But in these draft meetings, you're constantly comparing them to previous drafts in previous guys in those drafts who are now excelling or struggling in the NFL. It helps. It's like in real estate, you do comps, I'm sure in a lot of different industries, people listening to me, you're constantly comparing deals to previous deals. How much did we pay for this? This is what we're willing to pay for that because it parallels these previous three things we've done. It's no different in football based on measurables production, what style of play you have. If there are four other guys that play exactly like you that went in the second round, like, you're probably more inclined to take that guy in the second round than draft him in the top 10. And Abdul Carter, regardless of he was in the 2025 draft or in some of the best drafts of all time as a prospect, he's a legitimate top 10 guy in certain drafts. You know, I would say a bad draft like this one, he can go pick one two or three in some great drafts, maybe he goes seven to 10. But he's a legitimate high end prospect. His skill really translates and he does have a lot of parallels with Micah Parsons. Now, I think the thing with Micah, that was a little confusing, the reason he didn't go in the top 10 Covid year, didn't play for the season, don't blame him. But it was just kind of a weird time. And usually when guys like that just play going into their draft year like they're going to go really high. But we talk about this all the time. You can scout a guy as a player and there is no disputing. If you watch Penn State play, especially down the stretch in the playoffs, you're like, this guy is a freak town. I mean, he's battling with a shoulder injury, so there's no disputing his toughness, just his style of play. Like he's really, really good. And I haven't heard anything negative from an off the field character standpoint. So I'm just going to assume like he's viewed as a real high end, total package prospect. But when things that are thrown in the mix, like he still has a shoulder injury that he's nursing from early January, he has a stress, stress fracture in his right foot, those are things as the area scout, as the college director, hell, as the general manager that are very, very difficult for you to give a concrete opinion on. You are very, very dependent on your medical team. So when Rosenhaus tells Shafter he's not participating in his pro day and everyone goes, why? And Rosenhaus goes, well, because of his shoulder, still doesn't feel great from the Boise State game and you go, well, is that then it's your job to find out, is that the real reason or is the story that came out at the combine with the stress fracture in the right foot part of the reason that he doesn't want to risk not looking good, moving around. And so as a scout and as a scouting staff, all you can do is everything humanly possible to accumulate as much information as you can about what's actually going on. But when it comes to a diagnosis like, I don't know anything about shoulder injuries, I don't know anything about stress fractures in right, right feet. It's why Jim Harbaugh got in this back and forth with the local media this year in training camp, because they were peppering him over injuries. And while he definitely doesn't want to divulge anything, he's being told, like it was pretty easy for him to Come guys, I'm not a doctor, I don't know shit. I just reiterate what I'm told and there's a lot of truth to that. And I think when you get in these situations, it just sends huge alarms through the front office because it's like, well, this guy's an awesome player and if he's fully healthy, he's a no brainer guy in this draft to take really, really high. And if we were the Titans, if we're the Browns, if we're the Giants, if we're the Patriots, like all those teams are very, very interested in this guy. But to get to the bottom of like what is the state of his health and you're not. Listen, I have a lot of respect for Drew Rosenhaus, but his job is plain, simple, period, point blank, end of story. To figure out a way to make this stuff go away and make you think that it's not a big issue and make this almost feel like an afterthought. Because whether his foot is healthy, whether it's going to be an issue this fall, that's not his problem. His one prerogative and objective as the guy's agent is to get this guy selected as high as humanly possible to make him as much money as possible. And I think it puts these people in tough positions. And now you just have to get to the bottom of like what is going on. And we see a lot of times, I think I've given this example before, but I remember when the Raiders would have been like 2015 maybe. They were basically deciding between Amari Cooper and Leonard Williams and they ultimately went with Amari Cooper because they weren't sure about Leonard Williams shoulder and there were a lot of question marks whether he would need surgery. And obviously we're a decade later. I mean, currently today you would rather have Leonard Williams on your team than Amari Cooper. But that scares front offices because they don't have medical degrees. They know how to scout players and they know how to, you know, talk about football players and people. But when it comes to the medical stuff, it's just out of their hands. And this goes back to Nick Saban and I'm not acting like this guy's going to plummet or fall in the draft. But these are just issues that, I mean, in a perfect world if you're Abdul Carter and your Drew Rosenhaus don't exist, but when they do, they just set off alarms. The other thing that at least set off an alarm for me was Ashton Genti's pro day was yesterday. So I immediately I see on social media that he's working out shirtless and he looks like a brick shithouse. I mean he looks fantastic. And I text a buddy that I knew was there and I said, well, what did he run? And he's like, well he didn't run. And I'm like, well he didn't run at the combine either. And he's like, yeah, he's just not going to run. I'm like what do you mean he's not going to run? And listen, I would say Ashton Genty, unlike Abdul Carter because he's healthy, is like universally like stamp of approval in scouting circles. Extremely well liked. I think you would be hard pressed and people think I'm being critical because I keep bringing up that he's 5, 8. I've never disputed that he's an awesome player. Like you're not going to find people around the NFL that don't think very, very highly of this guy. The person and definitely the player. And he's like, well he's not going to run. I said, he's just not going to run. He's like, yeah, just not going to run. And basically the way it was described to me was it's not worth him running a 4, 5, 2 and falling in the draft. And for him, falling in the draft would all of a sudden be going instead of 7th or 9th or 12th or 10th or wherever, you know, pretty high to maybe like late teens. And that's what can happen because we talk about all the time these measurables and these check marks before the draft don't determine if you're going to go to the hall of fame once you get to the NFL or become a four time pro bowler or be a bust. But they do help determine your draft stock. We have seen time and time again wide receivers who are excellent players run a slow 40 guys that were like this guy's a first round player and all of a sudden go pick 48, all of a sudden fall to the third round. Two guys come to mind. Devonte Adams did not run very fast, fell to the middle of the second round. Keenan Allen ran really slow, fell to the third round. So like running times as a skill guy, regardless of how great your tape is, can really hurt you. So Ashton Genty is just not going to run. Now when I watched Ashton Genti play, I would say high end speed. Like I don't think he's Adrian Peterson. You know, Jameer Gibbs was a guy a couple years ago who ran a 4, 3, 6, I don't think he's doing that. But I do understand if like, yeah, I might on a good day run a 4, 4 7, but I also might run a 4, 5, 2. And given that my measurables aren't elite in terms of height, it could cost me millions of dollars. And the one thing that I heard about the workout is like, well, the workout was elite. So listen, I get it, you make business decisions. But I saw my guy. I don't say he's my guy. Fuck. He won't text me back. But an old friend and colleague of mine, Louis Riddick, called him a home run hitter. And I think home. When I think home run hitters, I think guys that would never shy away from the 40. You know, I think one of Lamar Jackson's poor decisions before the draft, now it ultimately worked out because he went to a great team, but everyone knew Lamar was going to fly. And if he would have ran the 40, like what would we guess? Lamar Jackson as a 21 year old coming out of college would have ran the 44-384-40. Like it would have been really, really fast. And he refused to do it. Now I think the reason he did was because Bill Polian said he was a wide receiver and it was like a double middle finger of like, I'm not showing everyone how fast I am, they're going to move me to wide receiver. Even though that was never going to happen. But fast guys usually run. Why? Because they're fast. And I'm not saying this guy's slow, but it would give me a little pause. Now, part of having a great running back in the NFL, you don't need like Saquon Barkley is pretty special. He has elite high end speed. Adrian Peterson outlier had elite high end speed. You can be a great running back. I mean a high end Pro bowl guy, just stud on my team for multiple contracts and not be that fast. I don't think Frank Gore had ACLS. I don't think Frank Gore would have broke 47 in the 40. It didn't matter. He was an awesome player. I'm not depending on you to run 50 yards consistently in the NFL. If you're getting 10, 15, 20 yard runs, that's great. So like, I'm not saying it bothered me, but it definitely was something that kind of stood out, not running the 40. And listen, John Spytack I was told was there and that was always, you know, Lombardi used to talk about this back in his podcast days before he got with Belichick at UNC is like Al Davis. Not in a million years would have taken a guy that didn't run a 40. I mean, the whole thing with the Raiders was speed. So it'll be interesting if it just people are just completely unfazed and he definitely benefits from the draft class. But you got to Abdul Carter with shoulder and foot and you have Ashton Genti not running the 40. So these are just things that like in these draft meetings, this is what you talk about when it comes to college basketball in March mania. One thing is for sure, nothing's for sure. Upsets, buzzer beaters, Cinderellas, top seeds going home early. It's all going to happen. Bet the unexpected. Every upset, every day with DraftKings Sportsbook. With live betting, exclusive content, promos and parlays, DraftKing is the ultimate college basketball destination for March. Ready to make your first bet? Check out matchups and pick a team to win. It's that simple. First time here's something special just for you. New DraftKings customers bet five to get 200 in bonus bets instantly. Bet the unexpected with DraftKings Sportsbook. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app. Use the code JOHN. That's JOHEN. That's Code John for new customers to get 200 in bonus bets. When you bet just five bucks only on DraftKings, the crown is yours. Gambling problem, call 1-800- gambler in New York, call 877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny 467-369 in Connecticut, help is available. For problem gambling, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org on behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort in Kansas, 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void. In Ontario, bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG Co Audio. Geico's motorcycle expertise means I'm covered by.
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Larison Campbell
People who know bikes like I do.
- [20:05]
John Middlekauff
I'm happy as a clam. No conclusive scientific research has shown clams can experience happiness. It just meant that I feel really.
- [20:11]
Larison Campbell
Good about my coverage.
- [20:11]
Bob Pittman
I mean, even if you're the clam out for the best day ever, visiting the zoo, taking a scenic ride, knowing you're insured by specialists, and sharing a strawberry ice cream cone together. The clam would not feel happy, and your strawberry cone would taste sort of clammy. Geico's motorcycle specialists who know bikes like you do assume no liability for Clammy ice cream cones. GEICO Expertise for your motorcycle There's a.
- [20:30]
Larison Campbell
Type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation. It's terrible, terrible dirt. Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
- [20:53]
John Middlekauff
7,000 bodies out there or more, all.
- [20:57]
Larison Campbell
Former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.
- [21:02]
John Middlekauff
It was my family's mystery.
- [21:04]
Larison Campbell
But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets. Nobody talks about it. Nobody has any information. When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
- [21:18]
John Middlekauff
The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.
- [21:23]
Larison Campbell
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazu Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [21:34]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.
- [21:40]
John Middlekauff
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [21:43]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [21:51]
Larison Campbell
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [21:53]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle. Thanks for having me, Jeremy. Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [22:01]
Bob Pittman
Thanks for having me.
- [22:02]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [22:06]
John Middlekauff
Hi, my name is Venkat.
- [22:08]
Bob Pittman
I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [22:10]
Jeremy Hobson
And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [22:19]
John Middlekauff
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary? And what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [22:27]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [22:33]
Bob Pittman
Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast Math and Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some interesting folks across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like chairman and CEO of Health Beauty, Tarang Amin.
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John Middlekauff
The way I approach risk is constantly try things and actually make it okay. To fail.
- [23:03]
Bob Pittman
I'm sitting down with legendary singer, songwriter and philanthropist Jewel.
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Larison Campbell
I wanted a way to do something that I loved for the rest of my life.
- [23:11]
Bob Pittman
We're also hearing how leaders brought their businesses out of unprecedented times. Like Stefan Bonsell, CEO of Moderna. It becomes a human decision to decide to throw by the window your business strategy and to do what you think is the right thing for the world. Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math, and the ever important creative spark, the magic. Listen to math and magic stories from the frontiers of Marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [23:48]
John Middlekauff
Speaking of people talking about others, LeBron James on McAfee. I do think the reaction from Stephen A. For 15 minutes, some of the clips are just, just make me laugh. I mean, it's just the ultimate NBA story of like nobody talking about any of the games. It's just LeBron James and Stephen A. Smith going back and forth. Just, it's just classic 2025 National Basketball Association. But one thing that has really bothered me over the years because I just think it's so disrespectful for people like, I don't care what industry you're in, but if things are going really well, you usually owe people of previous generations in whatever business you're in for really starting to get the ball rolling, for building something up and getting the momentum on your side. And usually there's a time in period in most things that we do when people were doing things for not nearly as much money as you're making now. And nothing speaks to that more than, for example, the NBA, which the average salary is $12 million. And I don't even know the amount of people, but it's pretty large relative to their workforce that are making 30 plus million dollars. Obviously there are a lot of elite players, and rightfully so, making 40 to 50. There are also a lot of guys completely running a scam, making 40 to 50 million dollars right now that if they disappeared tomorrow from the NBA, not a soul would notice. So whenever they're taking shots at guys from the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, I think, you know, one, most of us were not alive in the 70s that are speaking about this. Definitely all the players to make these concrete opinions that those guys just suck. But I also just think it's a bad look. It just looks, I just think it's kind of unbecoming. And then I think about the NFL, which is the complete opposite, that you would never, you couldn't imagine Cam Hayward saying, there's no way Mean Joe Green could play next to me right now. Or Josh Allen saying, yeah, I'm way better than Jim Kelly. Or Fred Warner's, like, yeah, Ronnie Lott wouldn't have been good enough to play behind me. We need, we need better at that. If anything, they would say the opposite. It would be an honor to play with Ronnie Lott, strap him up and be on the same field with Ronnie Lott playing behind me cracking skulls. I would love to line up next to Mean Joe Green. I would give anything to have the career of Jim Kelly. You would never. You couldn't even imagine Roquan Smith saying, yeah, I would. Walter Payton, he couldn't. He wouldn't last on the field with my defense for 10 fucking snaps. You never hear those words. If anything, it's the complete opposite. The respect they show. You know why? Because they know there's a toughness element to the 70s and 80s when people my age never watched any of it. But we just know it's like you had to be a bad, you know what to play in that era. You had to be a tough sob. And the amount of money they were making relative to what the guys make now, yet the amount of emphasis on safety and health was the ratio. You know, the care for safety and health was basically zero. No one cared about any of it. And relative to the money now, they were probably doing better than most of society. But, you know, a lot of those guys, like the seventies, had second jobs. So I just think whenever you can give respect to people in previous generations for helping you out to where you are today, it's just like kind of common courtesy. And it just shows that, like, you're kind of in touch with reality. Colin Morikawa made some comments a couple weeks ago at the Arnold Palmer where he doesn't need to talk after he loses a golf tournament. It's like, bro, you sound very out of touch right now. And I think the NBA has a huge, huge perception problem. And they've lost. People like me who idolize, not, not idolized, still idolize Michael Jordan. Honestly, he stands for everything I like now. Gambling, golfing, boozing, talking shit like, I. I like Michael Jordan at 65 as much as I liked him when I was 10 and he was 30. But I just think when you look at previous generations, it's like, what's the point in kicking these guys and acting like they were a bunch of scrubs? Without them, this business would not have existed. And what they had to go through, like, especially like in the NBA, when you see some pictures of the shoes they Wore in like 1974. The other thing is comparing apples to apples is completely impossible. Be like, well, they didn't have the athletes or the skills. Well, yeah, guys, they were like Kenny the Snake Stabler was smoking cigarettes at halftime. They were drinking Coca Colas when they were going to the sideline. People didn't. Hell, it wasn't that long. When I was a kid, we didn't discuss caloric intake and, and sugars like we have the last decade. It's not apples to apples the way we live. But to constantly just act like these guys are a bunch of losers. I'm glad the NFL does not do that because I do think it would turn off a lot of people. And honestly it's the opposite. It feels like they give reverence, respect and they just hold those guys into high regard because they look at them like, yeah, man, that's, that's, that's a tough sob. And I think the NFL, that, that perception with the NBA I think is a sneaky huge turnoff. And for the NBA, the NFL, I think it's a cool connection that watching those guys really feel like they embrace those guys and listen, the other thing is we all know you couldn't even say that with a straight face. I mean, what do we, what do we criticize currently about the NFL? And it's kind of soft, not allowed to hit anyone. And again, that's not an opinion. Like that's not subjective. It is a fact. I mean we literally call wide receivers going over the middle defenseless. It wasn't that long ago where they were called, I'm decapitated and I'm going to the hospital. I say it all the time. When some of these flags happen on defenders. It's like when I grew up that was considered a hospital ball. Now it's like 15 yard penalty, automatic first down. So yeah, man, I just, I love the toughness in any sport of hearing guys talk from the 70s and 80s that they were such. It just felt a little more pure. Less money on the line, less, you know, hoopla with social media. It was just like I am trying to beat the shit out of whoever I'm playing. And I think that will always resonate in any era with fans. Okay, let's end on this fugazi Friday. I'm a big action movie guy. Have been my whole life. Started watching rated R movies probably before I should have, but I've always gravitated just toward, you know, just a good shoot em up Movie. And I would say of my adult life, it's always driven me crazy that in these crazy shootouts and listen, anyone who's ever shot a gun, like, if you just handed me a Glock right now and gave me a stationary target relatively far away and with no practice, I probably wouldn't hit it. Most people with no training, I haven't been skeet shooting in a long time. I probably wouldn't have great aim. So I'm not acting like shooting a gun is easy. Yet in so many of these movies when. And I was just watching, what made me think about this was Den of Thieves too, with Gerard Butler, ice cubes, Kid O'Shea Jackson, who's actually really. I think he's really good actor. That's pretty cool for Ice Cube. His kids just, just solid. Make some solid movies. Den of Thieves is good. It's. It's right up my alley. And there was this shootout scene. No spoiler alerts, but here it comes where they're going up these hills in like, I think in Italy. And they're, you know, it's like classic. Two Mercedes chasing one Mercedes and they're going 90 miles an hour up these windy roads. For whatever reason, there is not a soul on the road. So you're swerving all over the road, but there are long stretches of kind of straightaways where the bad guys, I guess they're all kind of bad guys. Well, one guy's technically a cop, but they're all shooting at each other and they all got like assault rifles. And the thing is, in a lot of these movies, the. They're all actors, obviously, but the people they're pretending to be, whether you are security guards or whether you're the bad guys, it's like you're. You're like former Marines, right? Like you are trained guy with a weapon in your hand. So this. You know what you're doing. And they shoot up, especially in car scenes when they're shooting at each other. And cars aren't that big. So like unless you're in. I don't even know what some, some old school Hummer, the. The actual circumference or size of the car is relatively small. Right. I don't know how far it would be. 7ft across, 10ft across. It's not that huge. And these bullets are just peppering the car of taking out Ice Cube's kid and Butler and just wearing out the glass taken through the seats and somehow no one ever gets hit. I used to think about this in John Wick. I love John Wick. But some of those shootouts where he is going up against not just randos. It's not like I just walk into a place like a hundred guys, hand them all 9 millimeters and just say, start shooting. Of course, some of those guys are not going to be very accurate. But the guys that were always trying to take out John Wick look like trained killers, yet he rarely ever got hit. And in this shooting scene, it was like, this is very unrealistic. If you just give these guys assault rifles and they are trailing the car by, I don't know, give or take, sometimes, you know, 20 yards, and they are just wearing out the car. The likelihood that a bullet wouldn't go through these people as they are just going through the seats, going through the windows, would not hit these guys feel like a statistical anomaly. It feels like it would be impossible. And I get it's a movie. I get it's completely made up. I get these people are just acting, pretending to be these people. But in these scenes, in the shootout scenes, I just think it's completely unrealistic. Always all these people. Now I get it. You can't just have everyone get shot. Everyone died. The movie would end. I'm not advocating for that. But as these scenes over the course of my life have, they've just upped and upped them, right? I mean, at first it was a couple shots here and there. And you'd like be hiding to now where it's at, it's just. I mean, unloading clip after clip after clip. And it's. If anything, it's like some. Sometimes a guy takes like a. Takes a bullet to the shoulder, but it's never like, yeah, right between his eyes. You know, six to the neck, three to the pelvis, one to the nose and one to the throat. He's done. That just never happens. And I just think I'm not looking for them to fix this problem because again, most movies would just end if the main character got taken out. I just think it's probably one of the most unrealistic things in the history of Hollywood are the shootout scenes and how rare it is for anyone of consequence being shot at to be taken out. I think if we acted all those in real life, I mean, hell, we see some of these in real life, people usually get hit and somehow no one that really ever gets faced in most of these.
- [36:04]
Larison Campbell
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
- [36:12]
John Middlekauff
It's terrible, terrible dirt.
- [36:14]
Larison Campbell
Yazoo clay eats everything. So things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's beach biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
- [36:28]
John Middlekauff
7,000 bodies out there or more, all.
- [36:31]
Larison Campbell
Former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.
- [36:36]
John Middlekauff
It was my family's mystery.
- [36:38]
Larison Campbell
But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets. Nobody talks about it. Nobody has any information. When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
- [36:52]
John Middlekauff
The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.
- [36:57]
Larison Campbell
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Andrea zukle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [37:09]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.
- [37:14]
John Middlekauff
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [37:17]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [37:25]
Larison Campbell
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [37:27]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.
- [37:32]
John Middlekauff
Thanks for having me, Jeremy.
- [37:33]
Jeremy Hobson
Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [37:35]
Bob Pittman
Thanks for having me.
- [37:36]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [37:41]
John Middlekauff
Hi, my name is Venkat.
- [37:43]
Bob Pittman
I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [37:44]
Jeremy Hobson
And when you subscribe to the Middle, you you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [37:53]
John Middlekauff
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [38:01]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [38:07]
Bob Pittman
Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Magic Stories from the frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some interesting folks across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like chairman and CEO of Elf Beauty, Tarang Amin.
- [38:32]
John Middlekauff
The way I approach risk is constantly try things and actually make it okay to fail.
- [38:38]
Bob Pittman
I'm sitting down with legendary singer, songwriter and philanthropist.
- [38:41]
Larison Campbell
I wanted a way to do something that I loved for the rest of my life.
- [38:46]
Bob Pittman
We're also hearing how leaders brought their businesses out of unprecedented times, like Stephane Bonsell, CEO of Moderna. It becomes a human decision to decide to throw by the window your business strategy and to do what you think is the right thing for the world. Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math and the ever important creative solution. Spark the magic. Listen to math and magic stories from the frontiers of Marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [39:17]
John Middlekauff
I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the.
- [39:20]
Larison Campbell
Podcast the Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the Greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [39:52]
John Middlekauff
Okay, let's do a little Middle Cough Mailbag onmiddalcoff Is the Instagram fire in those dms? I'm not going to make a habit of this, and this might be the first and last email I ever read, but right before I was going to record, I looked at my emails and I saw this and it was just so passionate. It's essentially, you know, a middle cough mailbag question. Some of you guys that don't have social I respect it. So Pete Peterson. At first I thought it was Pat Patrick Peterson. I was like damn, he's about to crush the Cardinals. But it's not. It's Pete. John Love the pod. Rarely miss an episode. I too live here in Scottsdale. Let me be direct why is the media and public so accepting of the dumpster fire called the Arizona Cardinals? Here are the facts. They are the all time worst winning percentage in the National Football League. Even more glaring is the fact even though they are a founding member of the league, they have won a grand total of seven playoff games in the entire history of the franchise. Second only to the Texans that have six who came into the league in 2002. Seven frickin wins in a century. Not great. That's less than one playoff win a decade, and all controlled by three generations of the Bidwells. They just were ranked by NFLPA as the worst franchise in the league. Bidwell has lawsuits against him from numerous former employees for hostile work environments and litigation against him from multiple states. Is he really any better than Dan Snyder who the media rightfully went after? This is arguably the worst professional sports franchise in history, but rarely does the media dive into this tragic situation. Well, I think this is interesting and this is where I do think we all can be a little biased. If this was happening to, it happened to Washington, right? And it was a really big deal. Why? They're a massive market with a lot of history. Where I grew up, if this was taking place with the 49ers, people would be fucking livid. It just, it would be a problem. I mean look at the Giants who have had probably the, one of the worst, definitely their worst 10 year run of my life. And it's really, really ugly. And they get crucified. I've only lived here now for what, three plus years. But because of my location, like you know, growing up in life, I follow, I would say the Arizona teams relatively closely. As a PAC 10 fan, the colleges obviously the Diamondbacks play in the Giants division with the Dodgers, you know, the Suns have been, you know, west coast NBA team. So I've just, I followed them. I think a lot of people here, let's just use this just market in general. One, not a lot of people that do what I do, talk about sports for a living, live in this area. Two, the fan base is much smaller than a lot of the places that would get crucified. Like this wouldn't be tolerated. With the packers or the Steelers or the Niners or the Giants or the Eagles, I mean even the Cowboys, right, they get crushed, they make the playoffs a lot. Hell, they sometimes they win a playoff game, they just never make it to the third round. So I think it has to do with the location of so many people that live in this area are transplants. And I think the fan base relative to a lot of NFL teams is much smaller and I just don't think they're that important to the landscape of the league. You know, like, like the Bears who last year had an awful season. And it was, it was a problem and it was a huge story. I think the Cardinals in a weird way are kind of viewed like pre balmer clippers. It's like whatever. And like you said one thing, Bidwell, I think he benefits a lot from being in this market. Out of sight, out of mind. I, I have some people in my life that own a very, very lucrative business, family business. And over the course of the last 20 years a lot of people in those industries have been forced to sell. That business have been kind of strong armed. Now it's not like they got screwed, they got paid a lot of money, but they were forced to sell. And these were major markets in America, right where this lucrative business is. Is in an area where if I pulled every single human listening to this podcast right now and said, would you move there? All of your answers would be immediate. No. You'd be like, you wouldn't even care how much I was offering you. You would just say no. And they've always said that they've really benefited from the location of where their business is. People don't want to mess with it, so they just kind of get left alone. And in areas like Los Angeles, in areas like San Francisco, or, you know, Dallas, Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, you don't really get to hide. And here you kind of get to hide. I mean, one of the things that I like about moving here is there, there's still an element of the wild, wild West. It's like there aren't as many rules, aren't as many regulations, just fucking whatever. And I miss that. I mean, that's the California my dad grew up on, or in, which is long gone now that there's an element of that here. But I think, you know, this area, while it's fast growing, I do think it's really out of sight, out of mind. It really is. And I would say the same thing a little bit. You know, the Raiders benefit from that, you know, in Oakland and now Vegas. But. But they still get much more crucified because historically they have been a much more successful franchise and they have way more fans. So it's. It's somewhat. Is a numbers game. And I think part of the reason is, like, I'd go out of business if I talked about the Cardinals every day. Not enough people care. Honestly, I don't care that much. So I think, like, why don't I talk about it? Because I don't even find it that interesting. I really don't, you know, because part of it is Bidwell, unlike Snyder, it feels like flies a little more under the radar. But like you said, he's getting sued constantly. He's always has issues there. You know, the brand. Mike Brown gets shit on constantly for being really cheap. I think no one would argue the cheapest guy in league history is this family and might not even be close. Might not even be close. So, yeah, I mean, I. Here's the thing. When you say the Arizona Cardinals, it's funny, when I moved here, you know, some people don't quite understand what I do. They're like, are you going to cover the Arizona teams? Like, no, I don't. I couldn't even pretend to care. They just. They do nothing for me emotionally, which Kind of sucks. I mean, hell, like I, I'm not a big baseball fan like I used to be, but I still like background television. Like if when I lived in the Bay Area. Now again I like the Giants, but even when they suck, you just throw them on in the background if you're doing other stuff, especially like day games during the season. If I have the Diamondbacks game on for like five minutes, I just see it on my TV and like I gotta change it. It's just something, something about it. The Suns do nothing to me. So yeah, I mean, I don't know what to tell you beside I just think it's the team. Simply put, no one gives a shit where a lot more people cared about Washington. So I feel for you as a Cardinal fan, being under the Bidwell's watch sucks. This for the bag. I was thinking for the Patriots they would draft Travis Hunter. But now that the Giants have signed Russell Wilson and Jameis, they probably won't draft Sanders anymore and could throw and could now take Hunter off the board. What do you think the Patriots will do in the draft? Is the Arizona wide receiver McMillan worth the fourth overall pick? I would say this. It sucks for the Patriots if Carter, assuming he's healthy, is off the board and Travis Hunter's off the board if the Giants pass on Shador Sanders. That sucks because it's clear there are two guys that are just way better and then there's the next group. McMillan I could not take it for overall. I wouldn't take him in the top 10. But that's just me. I mean there are some people that like him more than others. I mean you watch the right game. Against New Mexico, he had 700 yards. But I just. There's one guy that's been drafted in the top 10 with his speed, low four or fives, that has gone on to be a high end player and that's Mike Evans. And I don't quite see Mike Evans a good player. But to me like if I'm drafting a wide receiver at 4 overall, he's got to be Jamar Chase, Malik Navers, Julio Jones and I don't know if this guy's that might be but I, to me he's more like a guy you take in the teens. I don't know what they do. I think they would be in a tough spot. I think then you just take like who do you feel is the best player? Is that Mason Graham? Is that, you know, one of the offensive linemen? I just think you take end up taking one of Those guys, I don't know the answer to that, but I could not take McMillan over the lineman. I would still take either defensive or offensive lineman right there. Obviously, the discussion with Will Campbell and the arms, like, I'm sorry, it is a big issue. Now, let's just say hypothetically Will Campbell because the pushback is what he's played years at the sec, and that's true. But, you know, if it does become an issue, I do think he could slide the guard immediately, be an awesome player. But how often, you know, let's just say he became a Pro bowl guard, you know, do you want to take that at 4 overall? And who knows? Maybe he just is a tackle for a long time and is a solid player. But, you know, the Missouri guy worked out really good. People are really high on him. This is the trouble with the draft. This is why people have been saying, two months ago, that's like, you know, like the Niners and the Cowboys at 11 or 12, they're going to get like the same pick of a player as the teams like the Assuming Hunter and Abdul Carter are gone as like the Patriots and the Jags at 4 and 5, which is not normal. Usually, like the top six or seven guys in a good draft are pretty. You feel pretty confident like these guys are going to be badasses. And then you just. It's more of a coin flip once you get past, like 10. Not saying there aren't sweet players, but you just. You never know. And that's. I think in this draft, it's not quite viewed like that. Like, A team drafting 17th may get a way better player than the team drafting seventh. I saw Ryan Clark saying on ESPN the Niners should trade McCaffrey before the draft. I don't agree. What are your thoughts? No, I mean, what's one. His value? Like, they're trying to trade iuk. It's like, guys, no one's offering you anything of value for a guy making a bunch of money with a torn knee. So his value to trade him, he's more valuable to you, McCaffrey right now. I think you just keep your fingers crossed that he bounces back and he's still got some good football in him and he can stay healthy for a couple more years. But who in their right mind today would trade anything of value for Christian McCaffrey making $19 million in a draft loaded with starting running backs? The answer is nobody. So it's like, he is. He is more valuable to the Niners today than he is to another team. Plus, like The Niners do have to play games next year. They can't just like, why not just trade Kittle and Fred Warner too? Hey Trent, the Chiefs are calling. You want to go play for the Chiefs? It's like, fuck, why do you even dress out a football team? I saw that, I didn't spend much time. He wasn't alone. I saw other people say like, why don't they just get rid of McCaffrey like guys, what are you talking about? Yeah, someone offered you, you get the 12th pick. Can you trade him the Cowboys to 12th pick? Okay, I'll do that. Could you get like two twos? Yeah, think long and hard about it. No one's offering you any of this. It's like, yeah, hey so and so team offered you a conditional fifth. It's like, yeah, I'll just keep McCaffrey. You got to pay somebody. Question for the pod, although not strictly a football one. Reflecting on your comments about mental toughness, I asked myself what are the three mentally toughest sports events at the highest level. In other words, events where everyone is super skilled and the differentiator is the ability to hold it together mentally. My answers, the Ryder cup speaks for itself. I like that one. The World Snooker Championship. Absolutely compelling. Every may strongly recommend. I have no clue what that is. Test match cricket where you have to stay on top six hours a day for five days in 100 degree heat. That'd be hard. Yeah, I would say anything like some sort of Ironman Iditarod, stuff like that where you get to a point where I mean all those guys train at a really high level but the high end guys mentally like his body's breaking down. It's not a sport. But you know, I would say accomplishing like hell week in the Navy Seals, things like that. I mean those type things relative to, you know, like I don't even know pro sports, basketball, baseball and football. Like you have to have a lot of mental toughness but like at any moment you can tap out. Like that's what this gets back to football in. Like you hear stories from guys in the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, hell even in the 2000s. Yeah, we have three and a half weeks of double days in the pros. Like do you know how hard that is? Full pads tackling to the ground for weeks on end. There is no and there's no tapping out. So I would say that you know the Ryder cup mentally for sure. Physically not that task tax taxing, especially the time of year they play. It's usually not that Hot wherever they are. I would definitely choose some sort of triathlon, the Iditarod, some sort of climbing event, the, some sailing championship. Probably not easy, anything like that. We're like, you could legitimately die. Anything where it's not like, yeah, I'd get hurt, right? Or no, I could die. Like if this goes wrong, tell my family I love them and I should probably call my accountant to get my affairs in order. That's a real conversation you have before an event. Then, yeah, I take it pretty seriously. Huge Charger fan. I'm an even bigger Herbert fan. But lately I can't skate the feeling that he might never be able to get over the hump. He reminds me a lot of Rivers. Always talented, always putting up big numbers, but never quite able to finish the job. I know Herbert ceiling is higher than Rivers and Harbaugh arrival gives me hope. But considering the hype after his rookie year and now underwhelming the, the season since we have, we have been underwhelming this season's since we have been sometimes sorry, it's like I'm like, am I reading this wrong? Or grammar's not perfect. Always like, listen, I'm by no means some Rhodes scholar here. I'm starting to seriously wonder, will he ever take the next step. I think people forget and I'm not comparing Justin Herbert to Peyton Manning, but most people are not Tom Brady and most people are not Patrick Mahomes or they win immediately. Like comparing Philip Rivers to Justin Herbert. Philip Rivers, I don't even think he did take him a couple years to start. Right, because he got drafted and Breeze was there. Justin Herbert is just turned 27 years old. So even if we are conservative, he has like, I don't know, 35. I mean, Matt Stafford still plays at a high level at 36. 37. Let's just be conservative. 35. He has eight more years of playing really well. And what's Jim, 61 years old. I think you guys are going to be okay. I really do. And I get it. You know, the playoff game was bad. There's, it's one of the worst games he's probably ever played. But I don't know. I, I, I think we're overreacting sometime. And I would say the same thing about Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen. It's like they can never do it. Yeah, there'll be a year. I mean, Tom Brady wants towards ACL in a season and it was just not around. So guess what? The AFC was open that year. I mean, Patrick Mahomes could Just even just get hurt. Even if he doesn't get hurt, like there's a year he's not going to win the AFC every single year. One of these years he's going to lose it. One year he did. Joe Burrow was in the Super Bowl. I promise you it's going to happen again. Why don't the Browns sign Deshaun to a massive contract extension and spread out the contract? This happens in baseball, but we rarely see the NFL giving Deshaun another $20 million guaranteed and stretching the contract over eight to 10 years would basically be make his number irrelevant. Am I missing something? I think they're in a business situation where they don't want to do anything to elongate the relationship. So they're already in for the money they're in for. They want out. That is the goal right now to get out. So their only goal is to end this conversation. Right. So even giving him an extra $20 million just continues 1. In what world would you pay him another penny? I mean, he's one of the worst signing slash trades in the history of sports. It's been that bad. So you wouldn't give him any more money. And you don't want to stretch this out 8, 10 years. You want to eat it the next couple years and move on. I hear what you're saying. I don't think you're crazy, but I just think if you were in their shoes, you want this divorce to happen as soon as humanly possible. And at this point in time. There is a little light at the end of the tunnel though it's a couple years away. Yeah, I would just play this bad boy out question for the pod Getting married next year. So got a bachelor party that'll be late this year, early next year. Thoughts on Scottsdale, Vegas or Nashville as the best place for a bachelor party. Love, golf, gambling and boozing. I would probably rank them either Scottsdale, Vegas or Vegas Scottsdale and have Nashville last. The one thing you would have with with Vegas in Scottsdale is the golf and gambling aspects. Pretty solid. Obviously Vegas is the best. They got all the casinos. Scottsdale has added the Draftkick casinos. No free shout outs though. DraftKings a sponsor and I love that place right next to tpc. So you can play golf and then just go right there or you can play other places and go. And if you're going in the fall, there's going to be football games on on the weekend. So I would put one of those two Now I'm not a club guy I'm a bar guy. I like. I've. I've been to. You can count on how many clubs I've been. Not counting strip on two hands. In my. My 40 years of existence and my, you know, 42, 22 years. I had a fake ID for a couple years of going pretty hard, though. I don't go hard anymore. But I'm just saying, like, I don't do clubs. So if you want clubs, you could throw any of them in. The thing with Nashville, if you're going for a bachelor party, you're basically just staying on the Strip. It's a little like Vegas now. There's. In terms of partying, the Strip on Vegas. I mean, you can entertain yourself for days in Nashville. The Broadway Strip is really just. You're just drinking at bars, which is nothing wrong with that. Where I would say Scottsdale has your widest variety of unlimited golf courses. I would say unlimited bars. Like, if you want clubs, they got clubs. If you want just fun bars, they got bars. And they got the. They got the sports gambling. Now they don't have a. Actually do have casino. What's it called? Talking Stick, which has cards and stuff. Hell, you could stay there. But unlimited Airbnbs. I would. I would probably go, given the golf and boozing. Scottsdale, Vegas Nashville or Vegas Scottsdale National. Nashville. I would have Nashville probably last, just depending. And between Scottsdale and Vegas, you know, depending on where you're coming from. I'm a sucker. Like, I like living here. Wait, like there. I would choose here 10 out of 10 times over. Vegas. But there's something about the sound. Like, I like casinos. Some people don't like. I don't know. I just. I just like the sounds of them. And there's enough golf there to have a good time. But the weather's great, I think, in both places in the winter. So hard to beat. I haven't been to Vegas in a. When's the last time I've been. Been a minute. Something about just walking into the Aria or the mgm, just hearing those sounds. I did it at the super bowl because they have a. Was a hard Rock or something like right there on the Strip. Was it Canal street or whatever? The Main Strip is not Bourbon, but like the Main street going through New Orleans and you just go and you just hear those sounds. You're like, ah, just gets my juices flowing. Top five running backs in the NFL. I'm a Colts fan, so obviously I'm biased, but I never hear Jonathan Taylor mentioned as a top five back in the league. He's consistently great every year, but nobody seems to talk about him. Do you think Taylor is a top five back in the NFL right now? My list in no order is something like Saquon, McCaffrey, Henry, Taylor, Jacobs. I mean, after a season where Christian doesn't play, it'd be hard to have McCaffrey in the top five right now. Obviously when he's healthy, he's an elite player, like an all hall of Fame player. He could not play last season and then he came back and immediately tore his knee. So it's like I couldn't with a straight face put him in the top five right now. And that's the thing with like these lists for running backs and this is the pushback on paying them is things can change so much. Like think how differently we talk about Saquon now than we did two years ago. Like it can change really fast. Though he's always been an elite talent, I would say Derek Henry is a staple. You know, Saquon's the king of the castle right now. Jacobs is just an excellent all around player. I'd have no issue with Jonathan Taylor there. Who would be another guy that would be in the mix of the good teams, you know, Jameer Gibbs. I think you would have to swap CMC out for Jameer Gibbs. I mean, how many touchdowns Jameer Gibbs have last year? It'd be hard for me to leave him off the list. He's 23 years old, might have a bright future. So last year he started four games, obviously plays a lot, ran for 1500 yards, 16 touchdowns, averaged five and a half yards of carry, caught 52 balls and four touchdowns. So he had 20 touchdowns. Obviously they only played the one playoff game and he had two touchdowns. I'd have to swap out McCaffrey for Gibbs. Obviously if McCaffrey's healthy, he goes right back in. But last year was pretty scary. The Achilles don't work both of them. And then the knee. Bizarre times. If Russell Wilson has another bad year, mediocre stats and no playoffs, does this hurt his hall of Fame chances at least the first go round. His first super bowl win was thanks to the lob and the second one he lost the game. You know, when you hear the Patriot guys talk about that play, I don't want to say he lost the game. I know it was his throw. I think it was a better. Like when you hear Patricia or any of the Patriot guys, like in some of the documentary style stuff, go over that situation, it really is less crazy than when it Happened live. They. They just. I mean, the Patriots out scouted the Seattle. If they didn't scout that look, it's probably an easy touchdown, but they knew the play was coming. So I. Russell's a bizarre guy. I would have said, you know, in like 20, 18, 19, he was. You would have said, like, is he a future hall of Famer? We would have laughed in your face. Of course he is. And now it feels like it's getting pretty ugly. And sometimes, you know, when you're so great, like, no one talked about Willie Mays on the Mets, right? No one talked about some people's careers at the end. They just talked about the great spot. Like, how good it was in the peak of his powers. Like, if Steph Curry plays his last season for Charlotte when he's 42 years old, no one will ever utter that. But when you have, like the last six, seven years of your career where you look nothing like you did in the peak of your powers, that's a lot of information. Like, that's a lot. That's a huge sample size. That's a huge thing to ingrain in your memory. I think about this a lot. Like, as a kid, I don't go to therapy. Maybe one day I will, but it's like there are just some memories you really hold on. Not that you don't remember some negative stuff, but a lot of times, like when you lose a parent or grandparent or even a friend that maybe you had a roller coaster relationship with, you think and remember a lot of the good times. And when you, when you're, when you're sitting there sometimes, maybe by yourself, you know, maybe a cocktail and just kind of just lost in thought, it's the good stuff that comes to mind. And you almost forget about the negativity. I think a lot of times with an athlete or even a coach, like one blip on the radar, like even Belichick the last couple of years, that's. No one's going to remember that. Even if North. He flames out at North Carolina. You know, people remember 20 years, six Super Bowls, nine appearances. And I do wonder, Russell Wilson now, it's like, would he be better off if this year doesn't go well, just to quit? I don't know. I mean, obviously, from a financial standpoint, if you can keep making $10 million, I wouldn't blame him. He wants to keep making $10 million. All the way from Ireland. So excited getting a game. I saw that. We knew they were playing in Brazil. We know they play in London. I didn't they're playing a game in Spain. Playing a game in Spain. Roger really likes this international market. Basically, Brock Purdy, he can't throw the ball in rain, he has a weak arm and can't elevate talent. So make him play out his contract and if he needs a tag, make it still way less than the contract that he's wanting. Is this naive? With all the talent leaving, we need to commit to a full rebuild using the draft and build depth across both lines. It would also solve a UK issue as it would free up cap space. Thoughts? Yeah, I just think that they are. We can argue what the right tactic is. It does feel inevitable that they're going to sign them to a contract. So my days of pounding the table like, this is crazy. It's like I was saying that last year. It's like, hey, just let it play out well. If they're not going to do that, which clearly that is not their intention, it's a waste of. Of a breath. Right? So you're just. We're going to have to get the contract and then evaluate them on it. Like, at the end of the day, we can nitpick all we want. Like, you know, the Giants should never have given Daniel Jones. They shouldn't have kept franchise and Saquon. They should have extended Saquon and franchise Daniel Jones or maybe let Daniel Jones. But they did what they did. Like, they let Saquon walk and they pay Daniel Jones. So you just have to evaluate then off that situation. So we will. Whenever they give him the contract. Because if you tell me right now, it's like, hey, they signed him to a contract and they gave him $100 million guaranteed, I'd be like, oh, my gosh, one of the great steals of all time. If you tell me they give him $200 million guaranteed, the conversation is different. So I think at this point, I am just at peace. Is the wrong. I don't care. Like, you give Brock $100 million a year. Like, it doesn't. It's not my money. But in terms of building a team, like, we have to see the numbers and how they will impact everything, and then we'll react because some of these contracts are real, some of them are fake. And I don't know. I don't know where this is going because all the Niners are telling everybody is like, we're going to fucking play hardball. Well, okay, I'm cool with that. I'd play some hardball. I'd offer him a contract right now. Here's three years. $120 million will guarantee every penny. He's made a total of $4 million in his life, which is a lot of money. But if I give you $120 million, what are you gonna do? Say no? What are you gonna play out? You're gonna play another season for one and a half million dollars? What's the going rate? Okay, then we'll franchise you next year. So you'll make a total of $45 million over the next two years. Is that what you want to do? We'll give you 120 right now. The signing bonus of $50 million. That will be in your account before Easter. You interested? The answer is no. Okay? That's the way I would play it. But they're not playing it that way. So if they're not going to play it that way, it's like, it's a waste of our breath. I remember, it's like, why are we paying Tua? Why are we paying Trevor Lawrence? Well, they did, and then they're under contract, so we can talk all day long about. That's crazy. Well, they did it, so it's like it's a waste of our breath to what they shouldn't have done because it's already done and shit. Now a year later, we're a year into the contract, which both did not age very well.
- [70:56]
Larison Campbell
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
- [71:04]
John Middlekauff
It's terrible, terrible dirt.
- [71:06]
Larison Campbell
Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
- [71:19]
John Middlekauff
7,000 bodies out there or more, all.
- [71:23]
Larison Campbell
Former patients of the old state asylum, and nobody knew they were there.
- [71:28]
John Middlekauff
It was my family's mystery.
- [71:30]
Larison Campbell
But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keep secrets. Nobody talks about it. Nobody has any information. When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
- [71:44]
John Middlekauff
The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.
- [71:49]
Larison Campbell
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to under yazukle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [72:00]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.
- [72:06]
John Middlekauff
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [72:09]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices, not from the extremes, but from the vast Middle into the national conversation.
- [72:17]
Larison Campbell
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [72:19]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.
- [72:24]
John Middlekauff
Thanks for having me.
- [72:25]
Bob Pittman
Jeremy.
- [72:25]
Jeremy Hobson
Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [72:27]
Bob Pittman
Thanks for having me.
- [72:28]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [72:33]
John Middlekauff
Hi, my name is Venkat.
- [72:34]
Bob Pittman
I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [72:36]
Jeremy Hobson
And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [72:45]
John Middlekauff
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary? And what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [72:53]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [72:59]
Bob Pittman
Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some interesting folks across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like chairman and CEO of Elf Beauty, Tarang Amin.
- [73:24]
John Middlekauff
The way I approach risk is constantly try things and actually make it okay to fail.
- [73:29]
Bob Pittman
I'm sitting down with legendary singer, songwriter and philanthropist Jewel.
- [73:33]
Larison Campbell
I wanted a way to do something that I loved for the rest of my life.
- [73:37]
Bob Pittman
We're also hearing how leaders brought their businesses out of unprecedented times, like Stephane Bonsell, CEO of Moderna. It becomes a human decision to decide to throw by the window your business strategy and to do what you think is the right thing for the world. Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math, and the ever important creative spark, the Magic. Listen to math and magic stories from the frontiers of Marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [74:09]
John Middlekauff
I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the.
- [74:12]
Larison Campbell
Podcast the Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your PODC.
- [74:44]
John Middlekauff
Okay, last question is from Juan. That's my name in Spanish, though they used to call me Juanito, which stands for Little John Hey John, from your perspective, what do you think is the problem with the Colts? Pat McAfee probably is the best punter in Colts history all of last season. Literally critiqued the entire Colts organization and the team for how they're being run and especially dodged Anthony Richardson for the tap out incident. But nobody wants to critique Shane for his play calling and lack of ability to help out Richardson grow. Would you try to give Richardson one more shot and just tear it all down and then a complete rebuild? I think the culture at the point where it's either shit or get off the pot for old Chris and Chris is well liked in the, in the industry. He's friends with Colin, a lot of people know him and people think highly of the guy. But there's no disputing, like they haven't won the division in forever. Feels like they haven't made the playoffs in a while now. And the Anthony Richardson situation is pretty embarrassing. Like there's just no way around that. It's just like it's bad. And then I saw a headline today is like, yeah, they're just going to let the two guys compete. Like, oh, he's competing with Peyton Manning, Philip Rivers, no Daniel Jones. If Anthony Richardson were to be beat out by Daniel Jones, I don't think you could ever recover. And if he got beat out by Daniel Jones and then your team were to miss the playoffs, which I would probably expect them to do, you'd have to fire everybody. The problem is their owner doesn't, doesn't feel like he's in a great spot. Feels like he's like, you know, like a kind of like a rocker druggie version meets Joe Biden. Just, it just, it's just not going well. I don't know if you're all upstairs anymore, but this is not Fortune 500 companies. The board of director can't force the CEO out. Like he owns it, he runs it. He's in charge, him and his family. So he can do whatever he wants. And he clearly likes these guys. He likes Chris a lot. I do wonder how many places like, for as well liked as Chris Ballard is, he would have been fired in Philadelphia three years ago, would have been long gone. So I don't know. I mean, I'm at the point where Anthony Richardson kind of seen this movie before. You know, a guy with all these physical skills and sometimes those are the worst guys with all these physical skills who aren't actually that good and do weird stuff that drive you nuts, you hold on for much longer than you would for a Guy with less talent. Because what would you do with the guy with less talent? You would just cut him. You would just move on. Even if you draft or bench them, Even if you drafted them high. But Anthony Richardson is like, God, he's so fast. He's so physical presence. God, he can throw the ball three football fields on a rope. Yeah. Can he, can he play quarterback? Can he hit the wheel route? Can he run a two minute drill? The answer is usually no. So I think my guess would be right now is that Anthony Richson ends up getting everyone fired. And Shane Steichen, like you said, I thought it was pretty eye opening. Like, McAfee is not pulling the shit out of his butt. He's hearing things from people that know. And like Mike McDaniel in Miami when it comes out, like, he's like, he called you guys for being like, your team's not punctual. Guys are showing up late. And then Shane Steichen agrees. Like, yeah, we gotta, we gotta work on that. I forget, I forget exactly the way he kind of described it, but he acknowledged, like it was a problem. It's like, listen, everyone has a moment where a tire blows, car batteries dead. You get into an accident, hell, maybe even you oversleep. Every human being, even, you know, the highest end Seal Team 6 member has probably been late one moment in their life. Some people, maybe not Tom Coughlin, but most people. But if it's like, yeah, it's like consistent issue with the team that's a reflection of the head coach. I can't imagine people constantly showing up late to Belichick, to Andy Reid, to Pete Carroll, to Sean McVeigh, to Kyle Shanahan, to Sean Payton, to Nick Saban, to Kirby. Smart. Like, it wouldn't be tolerated because it's not tolerated, because that's what bad teams do. You think a bunch of guys in the Ravens and Bills are just showing up late every week? No chance. Do you think a bunch of dudes unlike the Lions are just lollygagging their way in? Sorry, Coach Campbell. Late for the fourth time this month. My bad. You fucking kidding me? And even McDaniel's like, yeah, fines don't work. That's. That's an embarrassing thing to admit because it's not about the money. And clearly when you say fines don't work, that's the practice squad Guy ain't giving away $10,000 easily when he's making 200 grand or your minimum six round pick and giving up that cash. The rich guys, it's like, well, who are the rich guys on the team. So you're telling me your best players don't give a shit about showing respect to the rest of the team and the head coach? Because that's all it is when you show up late. You know, listen, we've all been discombobulated and show up late to a zoom or, you know, forget like a phone call that we had 10 minutes ago, like it's happened to us all. But like walking into a tangible meeting with, you know, if you factor in an NFL meeting room, you got 53 guys on the active roster, you got another 10 practice squad guys, you got, I'll just pick a number. Let's say between quality control guys and just analysts, you probably got 20 plus coaches, head coach, probably got a couple GM, assistant GM guys in there, some trainers. Like you got a lot of people in the room. So it's not. You're just walking into like one guy, like, my fault, Bill, I'm late. No, it's like 100 guys in the meeting room. I mean we've all seen hard knocks and stuff. Like, I'm not even talking training camp. I'm talking during the season. The meeting rooms are big. Walking in 10 minutes late, that's, that's pretty bad. That to me is the biggest red flag of the operation. And I think some guys, they're great, like play callers. And clearly Shane is excellent, like understands offense. I also think sometimes when you have a player who is not good, happens a lot at quarterback. We all kind of take a dump on the coordinator. It's like, no, I've seen Shane Saigon, he's pretty good. I think he's a good play caller. Is he good disciplinarian? Is he strict enough? Is he too, is he too much of a player's coach? Yeah, I mean that, that might be the case, but just in terms of like calling a play on third and seven in the third quarter of a tie game, I think he's proven like he kind of knows what he's doing. When your quarterback can't hit basic routes, like it's going to make the coordinator look bad. So I will defend Shane the coach from a play or a play caller standpoint, it's hard to defend them from the CEO because you're kind of both. Can you imagine people walking in late to the Harbaugh brothers meetings all the time? Are you kidding me like that? Jim might fight you, John. Just, it just wouldn't be allowed. The team wouldn't allow it. So yeah, crazy times in Indy feel for you guys, I was, I was a huge Peyton Manning guy in high school. Love the Colts, always rooted for him. And then he won it and I, I kind of didn't be. Not that I'm not a paid Manning guy, but once he won it, I felt like, okay, we're good. I just, for a while I just didn't think he was going to get over the hump, that he's going to be like Charles Barkley of the NFL. But he was. He was just too good. He figured it out. Gadios have a great weekend. Peace.
- [83:13]
Larison Campbell
The Volume.
- [83:17]
John Middlekauff
AI is redefining what's possible for your business. With more unique challenges to solve and higher stakes than ever, Microsoft helps you stay ahead. Our trustworthy AI tools and guidance can empower leaders like you to drive greater impact. And with Azure's simplified platform management, we're helping businesses go further, faster, unlocking up to 150% improved output. Whatever challenge comes next, let Microsoft help you keep pushing forward. For more details, visit Microsoft.com challengers this is Nikki Glaser from the Nikki Glaser Podcast. Have you guys seen this new commercial from Stand up to All Hate? It's basically Snoop Dogg and Tom Brady going back and forth with reasons that they hate each other. But then when you really listen to them, the reasons for the hate are just so stupid. I don't know. This. This commercial really got me. It's a strong reminder that hate in our country continues to be out of control. So join us at I Heart in Standing up to it. If you see hate, speak up. Call it out. Your voice is a powerful tool in this fight. You can learn more by following up with hate. Whether you're teeing off, headed into the office, or kicking back to watch the big game, Travis Matthew has you covered. They create versatile apparel designed to make you look and feel your best wherever life takes you. From performance driven styles to everyday essentials for men and women, Travis Matthew bridges the gap between style and comfort I was just in Nashville, got married and we had some parties to attend. I rocked the Travis Matthew jeans the entire time. Extremely versatile, can wear with tennis shoes, with dress shoes, with boots. The style makes me look better. Ready to elevate your everyday? Visit travismathieu.com and get 20% off your first order when you sign up for.
- [84:59]
Larison Campbell
Email in Mississippi, Yazoo clay keeps secrets.
- [85:04]
John Middlekauff
7,000 bodies out there or more.
- [85:08]
Larison Campbell
A forgotten asylum cemetery.
- [85:10]
John Middlekauff
It was my family's mystery.
- [85:12]
Larison Campbell
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell. And this is under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.