← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
3 & Out - Arch Manning vs Dante Moore, Deep Dive into 2027 QB Class, Rookie OTA Storylines, NFL Rookie Fits & Sleepers
01:28:33
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- [00:00]
John Middlecraft
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human Today's podcast is brought to you by Ferguson Home. Whether you're a homeowner working on a remodel or a pro managing multiple projects, Ferguson Home is where great ideas become stunning spaces. Ferguson Home is designed for the way you want to shop. Experience today's top products by top brands like KitchenAid firsthand by visiting a Ferguson Home showroom, where you'll explore stunning displays featuring today's latest products and innovations. Or browse video their extended selection of products online@FergusonHome.com Today we're talking about how you don't have to earn more when you can save more. Okay, so you brought me this stat. T Mobile customers had the lowest wireless bills versus Verizon and AT&T over the past five years. That seems surprising.
- [00:50]
Jackson
Surprising but true.
- [00:51]
John Middlecraft
Which, honestly, is what people need right now.
- [00:53]
Jackson
Affordable wireless service isn't a perk, it's a difference.
- [00:56]
Commercial/Ad Voice
Based on Harris X billing snapshots from Q3 21 and Q4 25 compared to average AT&T and Verizon bills. Comparison excludes discounts, credits and optional charges. For more details, see harrisx.comT mobile bills. If you work in university maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place, from H Vac and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock so your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRAINGER visit grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
- [01:35]
John Middlecraft
Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guests, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs Banter.
- [01:54]
Jackson
Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.
- [01:57]
John Middlecraft
Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. What is going on my people? How are we doing? John Middlecraft Arenow Podcast hopefully everyone had a good Mother's Day. Had a good weekend for your own moms, your wives, your fiance's, your girlfriends, your baby mamas, whoever it may be. And you had a good weekend. But here's the thing, because I had Sunday kind of booked around my own family. I told Jackson, producer Jackson, I said, let's get together a couple days before Sunday. We actually recorded this on Friday. Talk some 20, 27 draft, talk some of these rookies heading into the, the minicamps, which are all starting this upcoming week and you know, through the end of May into June and just talk a little ball nerd out. So that's, that's kind of what we did. Actually recorded this about 48 hours ago. So you guys know the drill. If you listen on Collins feed, subscribe to three and out. If you want to watch the show, it's on Netflix. Just hit the alert button. You will never miss an episode. And let's just dive into me and producer Jackson. So we, we thought we would do a little look ahead to the 27 quarterback draft because I, I've seen a couple different websites and all of a sudden Arch is right in my face. And you know, I think officially we had rookie minicamps that didn't happen the first week, happened this weekend. So by the end of or start of Monday, Tuesday, depending, you know, the team, you kind of really ramp on or into the practices. All the people are on the field, the rookies, the veterans. Unless you're like a Miles Garrett or something. I mean some of these guys don't show up to the non voluntary. But I, I would say the overwhelming majority of players are on the field with the coaches. I mean we had 10 new coaching staffs because we had 10 job openings. Right. So I guess Joe Brady's technically a carryover, but we have a lot of turnover all over the league, free agency every year. So we'll kind of dive into some of that how rookie fits. I thought we'd mix it up a little bit and, and again, happy Mother's Day. And hopefully everyone enjoyed themselves last weekend. So I, I thought here's what we'll do. We will start with some college football stuff. And for those of you that don't know, I would put Jackson in like, you know, there's like 1 percenters are rich people and then there's like Bezos's and Elon's that are like, they don't even have anything in common with the 1%. They're in like their own little universe. I'd put you that way with college football. You're not just a lover of college football, you're die hard Notre Dame fan. But you just, you just, there's something real. You know, when you go to a smaller school, you went to Montana. And I'm sure you were already a massive Notre Dame fan before that, but it's just, it really hammers home how cool college football is. And you're probably one of the biggest fans that I know, Jackson, so I thought you'd run point guard, you know, a little before your time. A guy named John Stockton used to old school, just pass Carl Malone pass to Jeff Hornacek. So you lead the way and we'll just follow the leader.
- [05:30]
Jackson
Yeah, I mean that's, that's the biggest compliment. I'm actually about to start prepping for college football because I'm not like Josh Pate or some of those people trying to establish when you talk about college football year round, like, I'm sure you haven't really. You've been so focused on the NFL where it's like the college football teams and stuff you don't really talk about until, you know, July and August. But then when you're around all these college guys, it's kind of like a grown dad, you know, you're a dad. Me looking at all these 2026 guys that played college football the last couple years transitioning to OTAs and then even the 2027 class. Like there's so many storylines. Um, but, but we had a good discussion beforehand. We could start with that on just the quarterback pressure for some of these 2027 quarterback prospects. Because a year ago Arch Manning was the number one overall pick. It was going to happen in 2026. I think you and I were in the boat that it was going to be an extra year for Arch Manning. It wasn't going to be him having a one and done year at Texas. This was the same hype with Quinn Ewers years before that. It kind of took him longer to kind of progress and he ended up being a seventh round pick. But the, the first topic is just kind of the quarterback pressure of the 2027 prospects because a year ago also we were here talking about Nussmeier Club, Nick aller being top 10 guys. And then fast forward to the NFL draft, they all plummeted. They were in the third day. Carson Beck, even though he had a good year, was kind of supposed to be top 10 pick and then he had a good year round three guy. So just kind of talk about the quarterback pressure of some of these 2027 guys. Because even though if you have a good year in 2024, 2025 or previous years, it seems like the recent draft years of quarterbacks, it's all about show me what you've done this year, your body of work this year so that you can transition to the NFL smoothly for some of these prospects.
- [07:11]
John Middlecraft
Well, maybe I could just jump the gun on this because I was going to talk about it a little bit later. But I think one thing is very clear in the NFL now when it comes to prospects. You, you can be a defensive lineman or a corner or you know, a safety, a wide receiver and have a down year. If you're a blue chip prospect. If you're a guy viewed as really, really high. Last year, Peter Woods Falk from Auburn, who both went in the 20s to Titans and the Chiefs, they were viewed as guys that go in the top 10. I mean, Falk was viewed as a guy. He was on mock drafts, like low single digits. I remember it's like I was seeing
- [07:46]
Jackson
like 3, 4, 5.
- [07:48]
John Middlecraft
You could have a shitty year relative. Right. I'm sure obviously they still make some plays and still go in the first round. That is not the case with quarterbacks. You have to play well. Think about this. You know, Josh Pate type would know and people in the south, if you're a big Alabama fan, but the majority of casual football fans, they're going to watch five or six big Alabama games through the year. Had never heard of Ty Simpson last year. And we can debate all we want. He went 13th overall. Fernando Mendoza, you know, Indiana took a, I would say much different step last year. I'm not even talking the national championship, but just the way they're discussed. Once you have a season like that then last year I thought they were going to come back to earth and win like seven or eight games. But I don't think the majority of people were talking about Fernando Mendoza either. So no foot quarterbacks. The position. Like I remember Jeremiah Love. We've been talking about him for like three years. Like Carnell Tate, we could debate where he was drafted. I've watched most casual fans have been seeing him forever. So you look like the position players, quarterbacks you got to produce. That's why the arch hype. I don't know, man. I know you got a buddy on the staff. Their team is absolutely loaded, right. They got maybe the best left tackle, maybe the best pass rusher. Maybe the best. It's hard to say the best because Jeremiah Smith feels entrenched.
- [09:14]
Jackson
Like one 1B.
- [09:16]
John Middlecraft
Yeah.
- [09:16]
Jackson
Like can you be one B? Cam Coleman, like I think he's that good. Obviously it's tough to beat Jeremiah Smith, but Coleman with a decent quarterback. He's had Peyton Thorne and Jackson Arnold.
- [09:26]
John Middlecraft
The Last two years how many guys on their roster too that maybe are up and coming that we don't like Ohio State last year all of a sudden Sonny Styles or Orville Re I guess Sonny Styles have been playing but Orville Reese like Texas going to have some of those guys on offense specifically. It's like oh they got you know the second best tight end in the country. Like that that's going to happen. Yeah. I looked at Arch Manning schedule yesterday on the show and it's. They get Ohio State at home but my guess is they're an underdog in that game. You know I would be my, my guess. I don't know what the look ahead line is but I, I don't see how in any world Texas could be favored in that spot. Especially you know clearly if you play them like week eight and it's well established but going into a season I Ohio State would have to be favored in that game.
- [10:14]
Jackson
You think so I feel like preseason hype with Arch the books would kind of make it lean towards Texas and
- [10:19]
John Middlecraft
it being at home to me that'd be a hammer Ohio State if and I'm Ohio State haters. But that, that seems pretty crazy, you know for. I mean they punked and it's players be a little different but as we know like we've seen guys coming two years ago they won the national championship with all those senior guys and it was like oh yeah, all those senior guys that were drafted like the third, fourth and fifth round to the Colts and the Steelers and all over the league. We're going to come back with a bunch of Arvell Reese's guys that the casual fan had never heard of and he's going to go five overall and people are going to think he dropped, you know. So it's like that. That's what Ohio State brings the table. You know I and their coaches are just pro. Matt Patricia was a pretty unreal college defensive coordinator last year. So I, I think the pressure on Arch which is not his fault. If he was Arch Midkopf he would not be being discussed like this. I, I think it's kind of absurd because coming into the year Dante Moore has proven way more one Arch throws the ball weird. He just throws the ball weird. Now maybe it was his shoulder was injured but I mean you watch a lot of college football. I mean don't you think? I'm not saying he's Tebow throwing the ball but it's like a funky release.
- [11:31]
Jackson
I know everyone was talking about like what are Peyton and Eli Teaching you with the, his footwork, trying to throw it sidearm. I do think though, the bright side of Arch was after that Mississippi State game, towards the back end of the season, he was processing better and who knows, maybe because it was less pressure off of him. Not a lot of people. I think Texas was kind of out of the playoff picture. Three losses, the Arch Manning hype turned into Haiti. Kind of started playing more free. The offensive line got better. The receivers didn't really have that number one. So I get what you mean. Like, I don't know if Arch should be one. Overall, I would trust like with my life. I would trust Dante Moore or maybe even a coin flip on just in terms of like the potential of like a CJ Carr or someone more reliable in those offenses versus Arch who we've seen just like the ups and downs. I would rather take a CJ Carr on steady play that we saw last year in his first season than from Arch Manning. It's just a sticky situation overall. And I don't want to schedule.
- [12:27]
John Middlecraft
I'm not on the guy. Like, I, I, I, I know it's
- [12:30]
Jackson
just high character, his athletic ability, what he, what he did in the Citrus Bowl. I know it's a bowl game, but he ran all over Michigan, which was impressive. The A and M game was also impressive when they had the number two team come in and they won that football game.
- [12:43]
John Middlecraft
But he's not going to get drafted. Number one to run the ball again. He's getting drafted to throw the ball. And he has to improve dramatically before we can stay with the straight face. He's a no doubt about it. First round pick or I mean, first overall pick.
- [12:57]
Jackson
And with that schedule, they make playoff, geez, he's gonna play. And then it's like, okay, I, I saw you against Ohio State. I saw you get to Ohio State, saw you against lsu and Blake Baker saw you on the road. I think they play four this year on the road. Like, it's gonna be. You're right. It's gonna be a legit season.
- [13:12]
John Middlecraft
4A&M Tex. A and M. Yeah.
- [13:15]
Jackson
Oh, my gosh. That's against Elko is going to be playoff on the line.
- [13:21]
John Middlecraft
Geez, if he's been. If you tell me he's the number one overall pick because I, I just think that these teams get way less emotional about this stuff than the MO. I mean, the mock drafts put them there for a reason. It gets clicks. It's like Bronnie used to go in top tens of mock drafts. Right? I mean, it's I understand it. And if he, if they're 11 and one, if they beat Ohio State, they don't have a chance to be like an 11 and one team. And clearly they'd be a top two or three seed depending you know, how Georgia's record was or Bama, whoever. They play LSU and they play in the SEC championship game. But assuming, I guess the SEC are the championship games still happening as of right now, it feels like they are.
- [14:00]
Jackson
Yeah. Yeah, still happening. 2014 playoff wants to happen, but I just think that's overly ridiculous.
- [14:05]
John Middlecraft
I think he has, I just don't think it's even arguable. He has by far of all the big names in college football that we talk about that have earned the spot, being there like through their elite play, all positions, but specifically quarterbacks like Dante Moore has earned the right to be discussed as a top five, top 10 pick. And obviously if you're a top 10 pick as a quarterback, you typically go like one or two, you know, so I. No issue. Caleb Williams, he went to Heisman as a sophomore. You know, it's Andrew Locke. It was he. By the time he was a red shirt sophomore, it was clear he was like the best player in the country. So it's like part of this is are you the best player in the country or one of them? You know, Fernando Mendoza, I think people were iffy on him. And then he had one of the greatest stretches against the entire draft. I mean he faced the entire draft in his. In his playoff run. So Ty Simpson played like really good football against really good teams until he kind of fell off a map again. I. If Arch has a season like Ty Simpson, he'll be in pretty good shape, but he's got to do it. And it's not just about running. Like we know he's a good athlete, but accuracy really, really matters. I think a lot of people, you know, Dante Moore played those guys at Texas Tech. That game was a really tough watch. Remember it was like a 9am Pacific Standard Time playoff game.
- [15:24]
Jackson
Baron Morton, 6 round pick, Patriots Crazy.
- [15:28]
John Middlecraft
Who is that? Who's that? The quarterback.
- [15:30]
Jackson
The Texas Tech quarterback? Yeah. He got drafted like sixth or seventh round of the Patriots.
- [15:33]
John Middlecraft
Seriously?
- [15:35]
Jackson
Yeah, I know. I don't know. I know him and the Rutgers QB kind of sixth round, seventh round potential backups. But I thought I kind of like
- [15:42]
John Middlecraft
the Rutgers QB is not bad. I watched a couple Rutgers games over the course of last couple.
- [15:45]
Jackson
Sneaky athlete. And he kind of fits like he just fits with Jaden Daniels and like the type of offense. They want to run with him too. That, that fits. But Morton was just, I don't know if Mike Grable probably wasn't in the draft for that pick, but that pick would. Morton was horrible. But to your point about Dante Moore, another thing no, no one really talks about is his receiver room was very banged up. The Iowa game he made some big throws. I mean obviously the Penn State game, everyone's going to talk about the toughness out of him was something that I didn't see in that environment. For him to kind of just get back up and continue to keep going. I think the Iowa game, I think of the Washington game, that big throw on third and 10 that he had to Malik Benson, who was a six round pick out of the Raiders. So this year they're going to have to Corey Moore, they're going to have Evan Stewart, who's a year off, who used to play at Texas A and M, who was at Oregon. It was that second wide receiver the year that Dylan Gabriel was there. But in terms of, you're right, like Dante Moore, we've seen that he can take the next sleeve. Especially with all the returns coming back. You feel better. Gun to your head, him being a top five pick versus Arch Manning, who even if he has a decent season, don't you think some team's gonna reach for him just because of the name and the potential of Arch? Like the Dolphins could reach for him or the jets could reach for him. Like it seems like even if he has a terrible season, the hype around him in the combine and the pro day, he still will end up a top 10.
- [17:01]
John Middlecraft
Well, historically the Mannings have stayed till their eligibility was over. You know, Peyton went back to school, played a senior year to try to beat Florida. Eli was a senior. This is a family that. And now with nil, I mean, Arch is rich independently of his family. Now, I don't know Cooper's economic status. It's not like Eli or Peyton's, but like our Arch is okay. There's no guarantee that Arch is just beating down the drums if he's not a really, really good player. But I, if he has a good season, then yeah, there's going to be a lot of hype and he'll go in the first round. I, I would not equate last. I, I would say last year they were by far him. And the hype, he didn't create the hype, his name did. And then everyone talking about him. But I would say the Texas program was probably the biggest underachiever of the season given, given the hype. I mean you guys lost two crazy close games to two playoff teams and one team that could have won the national championship. And the problem is you, you guys never don't play anybody. So I don't know if anyone's googled the Notre Dame schedule this year. It's not much better.
- [18:08]
Jackson
But hey, Miami, byu. But to your point about Texas, my only argument to that would be Clemson. Penn State were pretty big bad downfalls in college football last year too. But Texas true with Arch Manning, Penn
- [18:20]
John Middlecraft
State would win three. Penn State was not ideal Penn State, Penn State would clearly be one given that James Franklin got fired in the middle of the season which I would have said no one saw coming including James Franklin and they lost to UCLA as I think like a 28, 30 point Tim skipper crushing at Cal Poly now. But yeah, I, I, I just think the quarterback class is going to be to me headlined by those two guys. Arch is the headliner. That, that's where I think people when you tell someone we can argue between Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson or you know, LeBron and Steph Curry, there's no debating. They're, they're both sweet. Right? I, I think the argument on Arch, even if you like love the Manning family and like we're a big Peyton fan or love Di if you're a Giants fan. Like I, I'm just watching this guy. I don't think he's that good. You know, that's, you know and there's, there's just a lot of other names quarterbacks also. Mendoza came out of nowhere. Cam Ward was not viewed very high. Jaden Daniels the previous year was not viewed that high. You would say Drake was but I mean over Joe Burrow was definitely not Joe burrow into till 2019. Quarterbacks can the fickle nature of the position is to me way unlike established big names at other positions. Like all the big names you see in the top. If you just pull up a mock draft and we just took out the top 25 non quarterback names like if they're, let's say there's six or seven quarterbacks, you remove those guys. If those guys are healthy, the majority of those guys are going to be top 50ish picks, right? And the D line and O lineman are probably going to be first rounders. Now whether they go six or whether they go 28 depends on how they play. But they're going high. You know, like the South Carolina pass rusher who looks like Vaughn Miller kind of if he has an awful year, he's probably still going 24. If he has a great year, maybe he goes four, right? So it's as a quarterback, you have a shitty year or something bad happens. I don't know if Garrett Nessmeyer was ever going top 10, but he was probably going top 50. And all of a sudden he's seventh round pick and the dude from Cincinnati's taking above him.
- [20:41]
Jackson
I was so confident in Kate Klubnick heading into heading into this year and then he just shit the bed. It's like, come on man.
- [20:54]
John Middlecraft
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- [23:37]
Commercial/Ad Voice
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- [24:08]
John Middlecraft
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John Middlecraft
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- [24:44]
Jackson
To your point about that, like, that's what's so interesting about the quarterback class. It does have a lot of hype. You know, obviously we talk. Archmain and Dante Moore are the two top guys. And then you have a bunch of like swing wild card quarterbacks that are in the middle. CJ Carr, Lenore Sellers, who's just a physically freakish athlete with a horrible offensive line last year for South Carolina, a wide receiver who runs a 10 flat on the, on the 100 meter but can't catch for shit. So how does that, how does that transition this year? And then you have like a guy like Trinidad Chambliss who had one of the most unbelievable underdog stories of last year. And he's a confident thrower within the pocket. He can move, he can scramble, but he's 6 foot 5, 11, 5, 10 maybe. So it's like, how do you, if you're an evaluator of a guy like that who's shown more production and more in those big moments against Miami at Georgia versus like kind of the more physically gifted guys like a Lenora Sellers or even like a Brennan Sworesby if he plays. Who's your. Like that kind of second.
- [25:38]
John Middlecraft
Who's your favorite quarterback of that group?
- [25:41]
Jackson
I like C.J. carr, man. I think he's kind of the quietest quarterback prospect and I think a lot of people kind of go towards, well, he had Jeremiah Love, he had Jadarion Price, he had the running game there. This year it's gonna be more on his shoulders with the passing game with Denbrock because they don't you obviously when you lose two first round running backs, it's going to be hard to replace. Even though the last couple of years Notre Dame's had, you know, a premier recruiting class. But I think he's the guy. 6, 3, 2, 15. He's a leader. He's got a big arm. His first two games were at Miami and A and M and his first throw was a no looker against one of the best defenses in the country. So you go into year two with, with the, with the receiver group that they're all fully returned, an offensive line that's good. I just think he's a smart quarterback that truly plays from within the pocket who's not afraid to play push the ball in the middle of the field. I think he's got good pocket presence too. But he would be a guy to me that not a lot of people are talking about because he's not this big flashy name. He doesn't really have a lot of quotes. He's not big into social media. He's just a quiet reserve guy that could sneak up on draft boards and could be a guy we talk about to be a top 10. Especially like you said, the schedule's not great. They're going to throw it a ton which will give him a lot of reps and obviously the numbers and accuracy, production, what you want to see out of a top 10 guy. But he to me would be, I would pick him. Sellers is good, but it's like can he process. Does he understand the quarterback position which we'll see with Kendall Briles coming in, you know, Art Briles, that kind of offense and what South Carolina is going to be forward. But to me I just, I think C.J. carr no one's talking about he would be a guy that I would put that we're talking about March, April. Being a top 10 quarterback is that number three. Well, I'd take him over Julian saying at least for sure.
- [27:15]
John Middlecraft
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, saying looks like a crappier version of Ty Simpson. Are we sure saying's gonna start?
- [27:24]
Jackson
It's a good question. You just never, you know, Claire looks. Yeah.
- [27:26]
John Middlecraft
Programs like that. Because as a buddy text me who was not on the Ty Simpson train, he's like, does everyone know that Ty Simpson, if he did transfer, was transferring for a reason? They were not gonna be. He wasn't gonna be the starter anymore. Like that. It was so it's like, again, I'm not. This is not my opinion. This is a fact. He was not going to start at Alabama next year, but they got this five star guy behind him who's been there making big money. Remember the clip that went viral last year of him talking to the assistant coach like, was it LSU or Georgia? And Deborah comes and grabs him like that guy was starting Russell, you know. And one name that has kind of been falling off, who early on was like, Zach, this guy going to win the Heisman, breaks his hand. Obviously the rest of the season's very, you know, not great. Oklahoma had a great defense. John Mateer was awesome until that hand injury. And I respect the shit out of him and I actually think he'll get credit if he has a great season. He did everything humanly possible, like he was Baker Mayfield or whatever and been in the program for years to come back for the Texas game, right? And then he had one of the worst games you're ever going to see. So bad. It was, it was bad. I.
- [28:39]
Jackson
He was forcing everything.
- [28:40]
John Middlecraft
When I was at the combine, I was walking back to the hotel, it was after we had dinner and I ran into this guy and we started talking. He used to coach at Oklahoma for like the last three or four years. He's now moved on as assistant coach in the NFL. He got pretty good gig with a good team and we, we have a mutual buddy because I got know one of the guys on staff that works for Jim Nagy. And I started asking about John Mateer. I'm like, what's this deal, man? What happened? He's like, bro, does anyone realize how messed up his hand was? Now he came back, this is a defensive assistant. He's like, I love the guy. We love the guy. The team love the guy. He's the player you saw before the hand injury that if he's healthy, that's that guy. So you know Arbuckle, the coordinator that came with him from. Was it. Where was it Washington State pretty good resume of guys transferring. I I just think there are a lot of, there are a lot of maters Hoover at Remember last year John Spytack went on a scouting mission to watch TCU to watch Hoover because you know, middle of the season it wasn't clear who was who where guys were going to go. That guy's now at Indiana. Who So you just the Oklahoma State guys getting a ton of hype coming from North Texas is a guy most people like me. You've probably seen some snaps have never seen throw but there's a lot of hype on him. Oklahoma State when they're playing a Kenny Dillingham team, a Texas Tech, they're going to be a lot of scouts there. They're a guy everyone's going into these schools. So the class is this is where you got to be careful about Arch. If that guy at Oklahoma State or John Matier or C.J. carr or whoever like they dominate like Caleb did or Jaden Daniels did or Cam Ward did like they usually go one that's just how fast it happens.
- [30:26]
Jackson
At one point Hoover was like a projected top 15 pick like mid year of college football. I saw a bunch of mock drafts. People were taking him to the rams at like 15 or 13 or whatever at the point that he was and he was throwing a lot of interceptions late with TCU and you know he's going to transition especially when he's got Nick Marsh and Charlie Becker who hello are going to be first round wide receivers in this 2027 class that he will have in Indiana.
- [30:50]
John Middlecraft
I, I'd be lying if I watch much Cincinnati Big 12 Foot. I didn't watch much Big 12 football last year beside a little BYU and Texas Tech. It just was, it just the conference was way down. Was way down. You know obviously it's changed since Texas and Oklahoma left but it's you know
- [31:06]
Jackson
it's like Texas Tech, byu, maybe asu, Arizona.
- [31:10]
John Middlecraft
I think Arizona won nine games last year. It's just the conference is not, not great. But was it since like you look at Soursby's numbers and we'll see what how that plays out. I think he's praying that he can just stay in college and work. It's not like he threw 48 touchdowns. You know, he, I, I, I think there are a lot of question marks there too. But that's the great part about quarterback. You can really, really impact your draft status where I, I hope this doesn't happen. It's probably, it's not going to happen. If Jeremiah Love Today just said or not Jeremiah Love, but Jeremiah Smith, you know, it's not worth. I love Ohio State. I've already won a championship here. Obviously led us back or was big part of going back to the playoffs. Played an enormous games last two years. I just got too much on the line. Like I've. I'm already rich. This. The $7 million you're paying me or whatever. It's like I, I don't want to shatter my knee. Who was the. Oh, the Notre Dame guy. Remember the Notre Dame linebacker against Ohio State in the bowl game.
- [32:10]
Jackson
It's like I. Yeah, Jalen Smith.
- [32:12]
John Middlecraft
Jalen Smith, who was like gonna go be a top like 10, 15. He's like Sonny Styles but better in college. And like I, I'm not gonna risk it. The NFL would not care at all.
- [32:23]
Jackson
Right?
- [32:23]
John Middlecraft
He's, he's, he's.
- [32:25]
Jackson
Didn't Jamar do that? Didn't Jamar Chase do that?
- [32:27]
John Middlecraft
Yeah, but that was like Covet and they were just like, I'm not playing this fake fugazi season. A bunch of guys did Micah Parsons, Panay Sewell. But I think you could do it now if you are the level of a. A quarterback couldn't pull it off, I don't think. But a position player could do it pretty easily. But they're like, well, I'm getting 7 million. You know, most Rutgers in Maryland ain't gonna cover me. So it's just I gotta be careful. But that's the thing. It's football. You can't really think like that. It's a tough spot. You either got to be all in or all out.
- [33:00]
Jackson
Yeah, yeah.
- [33:01]
John Middlecraft
A lot. A lot of guys did it the 2020 year and rightfully so.
- [33:06]
Jackson
By my last guy, I want to mention before we move on, do you watch much of Jaden Mayava, the USC quarterback? Like he's another guy too. That could be.
- [33:16]
John Middlecraft
Yeah. Coward pumps him up. I mean, he sleeps.
- [33:19]
Jackson
Coward loves the. I mean, he loves usc.
- [33:21]
John Middlecraft
UNLV transfer, right?
- [33:23]
Jackson
Yeah, UNLV transferred. Played last year with Makai Lemon and, and with Jacobe Lane. I think he's. I mean, he could be another guy that like we talk about with the Hoovers and the other guys that no one really talked about that could just rise and maybe USC has that Lincoln Riley, you know, dream season, and he's talked about as a top 10, top 15 pick, but very possible.
- [33:44]
John Middlecraft
So that's the point of, of the quarterback play. There are going to be a couple guys that no one's talking about that come out of Nowhere and play. It literally happens every year.
- [33:54]
Jackson
Yeah, they play Ohio State, Oregon and Indiana. No Notre Dame though, because no Notre Dame.
- [33:59]
John Middlecraft
That game. It's officially done now.
- [34:02]
Jackson
Yeah, they don't, they don't play this year at all.
- [34:06]
John Middlecraft
Yeah, I mean let's, let's just, let's end on this Marcus Freeman stud. The players, they're producing studs programs. What we got going on on this NBC contract to hold all the money and then fucking play. Nobody is just like, you guys are too good at this point to be doing this. And now people, because the conferences have grown, are just, I disagree with the USC thing. Like I, I'm on the Keyshawns and the Matt Leinert side on, you should keep playing this game, Petros. But it is what it is. Like it happened and they're not playing now and it just sucks. I like, I just one nugget before we go to some of these rookies. Recruiting is going on in college football right now. So all the assistants are all over the country and the main hot spots, you know, Florida, Texas, Georgia, California. I talked to a buddy who was down in SoCal Main high schools with, you know, he's at a up and coming school and he's just around everybody. There's a lot of, you know, it's like the combine everyone's just talking about. One rumor going right now is these teams, like the power conferences are going to cap players and coaches the amount of money you can make. So it's like because the salary cap right now went from like 10 million two years ago. I mean there is none but like you know, $10 million roster to $50 million at this pace are going to be like the NFL, right? So they're going to try to limit, but they can't limit the players without limiting the coaches. So basically the most you can make in the SEC in 2027 is $10 million. You know, you could probably pay a coach $4 million, but there's going to be a maximum amount and I think what they're going to try to do again, there are a lot of rumors flying around out there on the recruiting trail with these coaches, but they feel confident this is coming because it's so out of control is there's got to be some sort of, you know, in the NFL I can't steal Sean McVay if I'm the New York Giants and I think they want some of or I can't just take, you know, I, I, I can't just try to sign Josh Allen or Miles Garrett. Like they're under contract with other teams. And I, I do think some legislation internally in conferences is coming down to some contract coaches and players. Because the money's so big now, everyone's getting rich. There has to be some parameter set in. And what I was told then is everyone, there's going to be the conferences that pay the players, which are, you know, Notre Dame will eventually kind of funnel their way in, however this plays out. And then schools like, obviously the small schools, Cal Poly, Montana, but even to Fresno State, San Diego State, like the lower levels, there just won't be any money there. So either making money or you're at these lower schools. And there's no different in Fresno State in Montana. And it's all gonna be weird to see.
- [37:03]
Jackson
It'll be weird to see like schools like Utah or like byu, are they getting their money through like private equity or something that I saw like from elsewhere trying to, you know, store their program? I saw today actually that Michigan put a stockhold, the University of Michigan put a stockhold on OpenAI a couple years back, like $20 million. And they got it back today. Or the valuation of it's worth 2 billion.
- [37:27]
John Middlecraft
Jesus.
- [37:30]
Jackson
So it's like Michigan, like, damn, you already got that much money and you already put $20 million on open air before I already started. It's 2 billion. Like, how does that 2 billion funnel into the equation with all this nil in budget stuff like, like you said. So it's a weird time, man. It's kind of cool seeing how much money these schools are able to fund from everywhere. Like ASU just got a $10 million donor like two weeks ago.
- [37:55]
John Middlecraft
But what does that mean, how far that doesn't last? I mean, that lasts on paying the guys this year and then it ends. You know, you used to, even at a big time school at, you know, USC or Texas or Ohio State, if you pledged $10 million 10 years ago to the athletics program, you were treated like a made man in the program for the rest of your life. Like that went toward whatever they used it toward, but it was a big deal. Now that money's done by November, right? As paying for an offensive line, you
- [38:29]
Jackson
got to find creative ways to make money. I was like, boise State, they're selling their blue turf right now.
- [38:34]
John Middlecraft
I've heard stories from smaller school friends that will lose a guy that'll go to like an SEC team and that guy will make $500,000 and he'll sign like a two year contract. Like, you know, it's year to year but technically, hey, we'll pledge two, two years. So you'll make $500,000 for your junior and senior year. And that guy's a really good player at like the non power 4 level. Then he gets to the SEC program and he's a backup and then he calls the old school where he was, you know, an all conference player. I was told the story the other day, I want to come home. Like, can I come back? And the coach is like, yeah, because most of these coaches never blame you if someone's offering you $500,000 a year, right? At these schools can't pay. And the coach is like, yeah, well talk to the head coach, we'll get you right back in the transfer portal. And they're like, part of the stipulation of the contract is like, well, there's a. Because they're all doing buyouts now, now. And the buyout was like $110,000. Well, the smaller school doesn't have the nil money to pay its own players, let alone buy guys out to then bring them back. So like, hey, nothing we can do. So this guy's stuck at the, at an SEC school making half a million dollars, which doesn't suck, but he doesn't play. So it's like a couple years ago he's thinking, this SEC school's signing him. He's going to get rich for a young kid and be, get drafted one day. Now he's fucking scout team player. So he. And my buddy says that happens all the time because these big programs come calling and if you're a smaller school guy now some of them go on to play immediately, but a lot of them then just become a backup or role player. So it's like, hey, I'm giving. You're making $400,000 a year at Alabama, at Texas Tech, at wherever. But I'm like a special teams player where before I was the all conference guy at San Diego State, the San Diego State guy. And this is where a couple years ago, Ashton Genti, I remember thinking like, how is he at Boise State? And then the athletic wrote this long article. The most money they could possibly get together was $300,000, which I can't even imagine making that at 20 years old. But he felt so loyal because of his, you know, his story of the army brat. And just like he loved Boise State, he turned down seven figures, surely from schools like Texas and USC or who knows. And the San Diego State guy did the same thing. But that's very, very rare. Very rare.
- [40:58]
Jackson
That sucks for that guy too. Because you look at schools like Indiana, they're grabbing guys. If I'm grabbing a guy out of the portal, I want a guy that's productive, that's played, that I know, okay, you have stats, you have game starts to prove that you can play at the next spot. That's where a lot of the boomer bus guys is. I'm going to go to Georgia and grab a backup that hasn't played in a year or two. But he was recruited by Georgia. He was a four or five star. He's got to be great. And then he falls flat on his face. It's like, damn, we just paid a million dollars for a db and he was a third string at Georgia. Where to your point? He could have went somewhere else. So it's all just like stock driven on like the now the recency in the transfer portal. It's just a fascinating. It's a weird thing.
- [41:35]
John Middlecraft
There's the, the thing with the transfer portal. It'd be like the NFL. It's so much easier if I poach if I'm Florida and the guy started at Kentucky or I'm Kentucky and the guy started at Florida, right. Or I'm. I'm usc. It's like I'm steal this guy from Maryland. I've seen this guy play against all the teams I'm playing. When you take a guy when, when I'm Oregon and I steal a guy from Fresno State, which is good, you know, eight, nine win pro. It's still pretty risky because I, I have a couple games of him against the USC type program, but there's a lot of games against New Mexico. I. That's why I, most of the time obviously there are some outliers when you look at like who Ohio State and Texas, like they are getting other starters at other Power 4 programs. That to me is the key. Like in the NFL, ideally you just. When you scout a guy who's coming out like a pass rusher against an offensive lineman, like it's the tape against Jeremiah Love against Miami or against Ohio State, like playing a bunch of NFL players. If you're, if you're scouting Will Campbell, you watch them over the course of a couple years of the guys that are going to get drafted at defensive line. There's no point in watching LSU play McNeese State. You don't even, you don't even watch that game because it's absolutely meaningless. And I guess you could judge like effort, but in terms of what compares, it's why Fernando Mendoza went number one. If his season had ended before the Ohio State game, like if he had broke his leg before the Ohio State game. I don't know what the Raiders do, but there was no disputing once he goes on the run, especially beats Ohio State and Miami. I mean their team was basically NFL defense. I bet of the 22 starters on Ohio State and Miami, my guess would be when it's all said and done, 18 of them are drafted. If we really just like looked at the roster right now, some of them are younger, but you know what I mean, look how many guys were just drafted off the crew in the first round. Six of just the defenses of the two teams.
- [43:51]
Jackson
Yeah, they even had some. Miami had some DBs in the second, third round. They're going to probably start to like Thomas and Scott and all these dudes.
- [43:58]
John Middlecraft
Ohio Sonny Styles brother went late, right?
- [44:01]
Jackson
Yeah, yeah. Lorenzo, I think he went to the Saints, I think like sixth or seventh round. But speaking of those 20, 26 rookies, we obviously got OTAs coming up. Let's just kind of dive into what do you think are the best rookie team fits situations for some of these rookies first through seventh round, maybe even undrafted going into OTAs here shortly.
- [44:22]
John Middlecraft
I'll give you the floor to. You're a die hard Notre Dame fan. You're one of the only Arizona Cardinal fans I've ever met.
- [44:30]
Jackson
See, I actually was gonna, I was gonna pivot. I. I know Jeremiah Love. It's not the best, it's not the best situation, but I think it's better than Genti. We can.
- [44:38]
John Middlecraft
I'm not even talking situation, I'm just talking. It's got to be pretty cool.
- [44:43]
Jackson
Oh yeah. I mean as you know, you go through this business and stuff, you try to be. Unless biased towards, you know, Notre Dame and the Arizona Cardinals or whatever, but to have a player with that much impact for three or four three years in Notre Dame to go to the 31st ranked rushing offense for the Arizona Cardinals. I get it. Was it the right pick? We could debate that all you want, but you want to pay a guy $50 million at at how special he is that we assume transition to the NFL with the breakaway speed and what he can do receiving wise, blah blah blah blah blah. Or do you want to pay a Maui Noah or a FanU at pick 4 $50 million? I think they would rather go the route that they win. I think it's gonna be interesting to see what they do in that room. In terms of James Conner and Algier. They probably would want to Take back. If they knew two months in advance that they would draft.
- [45:29]
John Middlecraft
Okay, let's start there. Let's start there. I do think it's fair to say when free agency starting and literally nothing changed March 15th with Jeremiah Love. He was well established as a top five 10 pick December 1st, let alone March 15th. They clearly got pressured. Like they wouldn't have learned any more with the human being or the player. He was an elite player. They were not planning on drafting him when free agency started. Right. And the owner, which, listen, he's a great player and I, I got no issue with the pick. But. And it's not nearly as bad as like the Cousins and the Pennix thing. But when they signed Cousins, they were not planning on drafting Michael Penck or else you just wouldn't have signed Cousins. You would have signed a $10 million player. They're not signing Tyler Algier if they know they're drafting or even like think they're drafting Jeremiah Love.
- [46:27]
Jackson
So I don't think Al.
- [46:29]
John Middlecraft
What happened?
- [46:31]
Jackson
Well, I, I think you just need to sell tickets. I think you're the worst team in the NFC West. You got the hardest schedule in the league and you need some kind of splash guy, which they haven't really had. I get it looks bad. Crowded running back room. Last year they had a bunch of running back injuries. You had Bam Knight from the practice squad and offensive line that got injured the entire. For the entire duration of the season. I don't think it's going to be as bad as Genti. I think with the weapons they have with Trey McBride. We'll see if Brissette can somewhat move or even hand the ball off to Jeremiah Love. If he has that much mobility and movement, I was going to kind of pivot towards. I think the better situation is his soulmate, this guy that he played with I. Notre Dame is Jadarion Price. But on top of that, don't you kind of think there's some sneaky pressure on him? And the fact that Schneider went out and signed Emmanuel Wilson, who was like a third running back for the Packers. Charbonnet is still off acl, but you know how important the running game is for the Seattle Seahawks and what K9 did last year and you knew he was going to walk. I just felt. And I guess the, the free agency running back market, you look at it right now, it's a graveyard of just dudes that have had multiple knee injuries or injuries that will probably get signed like week six, week seven, week eight. Guys like Joe Mix and Nick Chubb. But it just seems like a Jadarian Price where it's a great opportunity for him to be a running back one, maybe get used more in the receiving game that he didn't really get used at Notre Dame because you had Jeremiah Love. But does seem like a lot of pressure. Or maybe they're going to lean towards Darnold in the passing game. For a team in Seattle that late, K9 was starting to surge and was the reason why their offense was progressing so much last season.
- [48:06]
John Middlecraft
Well, I would say the most pressure on rookies are going to be guys 15 to 32 on better teams on the playoff teams like Jeremiah Love could have an awesome year, then win five games. Like there's no really pressure on him. There's not really pressure on Fernando Mendoza. I mean the Raiders haven't made the playoffs like twice in 25 years. I would say any good team Price. A good example, you know, Scott McLuhan is he used to be the GM of Washington. He's a little before your time. You're young. He was the GM of the 49ers before Trent Balky took over. And a lot of people thought that Balky got a lot of credit for his picks. Frank Gore, Patrick Willis, Joe Staley, Crabtree. Even the draft board in which he drafted Upati and Davis and like was McLuhan's draft board. He had a problem with drinking a little bit, but he was like a scout scout. I think he's buddies with John Schneider. People love him and he's just an old school kind of like nose players. Matt Barrows, who covers the Niners, reached out to him for takes on the Niners draft. And one of his takes was because they were talking about black. The running back from Indiana was like. He had an overall running back take that was again, this guy's been the league for like 30 years. Price is going to be a better pro than Love. Is that even possible? I don't, you know, I don't know.
- [49:41]
Jackson
I don't even know. I don't does that.
- [49:45]
John Middlecraft
He loves Price. You know, if you. If you put Price, I think Price is good.
- [49:50]
Jackson
Well, when you.
- [49:50]
John Middlecraft
I just think it's just tough when you're behind. When you're behind. Unless you're kind of equals, you know, Sony, Michelle, Nick Chubb, you know, Junkins and Henderson. Right? Guys that again, depending on the game, one guy but they're. It's like a one two combo and on any given game, one guy could be one. They were a one two combo and they had two Pro guys. But it was, it was one and then the other guy was like four. Right. And that's how the carries went. If, if you were in a tight game, like Love's in the game. You just utilize this guy. Like, what if he's got untapped potential? I don't necessarily believe that. Like, to me, Price always jumped out more on the return game, but again, he wasn't playing as much because you had Saquon Barkley or Bijan Robinson their backup. This used to happen with Saban. It was like, what's the running back room like? It's Mark Ingram, Derrick Henry, Alvin Kamara. And then Alvin Kamara had a transfer. You know that, that happens sometimes. And that was before the transfer portal. So I don't know. I mean, I, I don't think they just randomly, like at this point in time, I don't think you're forcing a need. If you're Seattle now, it wasn't a great running back class. Do you feel pretty confident that Price would have gone before they picked again in the second round?
- [51:07]
Jackson
Yeah.
- [51:07]
John Middlecraft
So. So, so it's like, do we love taking him at 32? Could I. Would I rather take him at 45? But he's definitely not going to be there when we're at what, 64? So you're just like, we don't love any of the other players anyway. We don't really need any other guys. That's the thing. Because if you look at all the guys that start going off, bunch of edge rushers and linebackers, like, that's not really. Seattle needs the DB room. Pretty stacked. So maybe they did just kind of take a need and say, fuck it.
- [51:37]
Jackson
Yeah, yeah. I. I mean, you. Price in Shahid as the returners is going to be nasty. You saw them last year get a couple special teams touchdowns with with Shaheed, so I think that's also a great addition to add with Jared Aaron Price. I don't think he will transition that bad. I just worry that you're going to have a running back too. Who's coming in with Charbonnet. I don't know when he's going to return. Who's also a running back too. So you got those two guys like, how are you going to divvy up the carries? You also have a new offensive coordinator. I'm not doubting on Seattle. Seattle will be great. Sure. They could be a Super bowl winning team. They could go to the NFC championship. Sky's the limit. It's not going to affect their entire season. I just think it's kind of an interesting battle to look out for and see how will he transition, you know, into the NFL and can he be that number one guy.
- [52:21]
John Middlecraft
I think if Miami would have been willing to trade HN, they would have traded 32 straight out for HN. I think, I think they would have been, I think they would have been gross. They would have been ready to do that. And you could argue the most pressure is, I mean, when you look at all the top teams, like, I think the Giants, I know a lot of people are going to make the playoffs. Like I, I gotta see them play a little bit before I feel I'm not going to do that. Before they start playing, I got to see them a little bit. Not that they're gonna, they're gonna be better, but we got a long ways to go. The Chiefs, I mean, they're just, they play, they're going to. If Mahomes is, I mean, shit. Veech said the other day, he's doing great. Training camp for sure and he's going to do some stuff during OTAs, which I doubt he does much, but he. I think they feel pretty confident by like August 1st, Mahomes is going to be on the field. This isn't like Justin Field starting game one or Nussmeyer. So you take a corner at six overall, that guy's a plug and play starter. In a, in a conference where you're playing Justin Herbert, you know, we'll see Bo Nix. But that, that offense, you know, they get waddle like it's the Raiders now with Mendoza, like that's six games, you know, he and Peter woods, like they're two first round picks, that they're going to need those guys to be really good. There's Peter woods gets a little bit, I would say of like, there's not as much pressure because he's not. Sometimes you're just there first round, you know, you're so and so's first round pick, he's kind of not an afterthought, but he kind of gets to mix in. Like if Peter woods is not starting week one, he mixes in with the group, no one's going to pay attention. But if I told you that Delane was like not starting, it would be like one of the biggest stories in the league. Now he's obviously going to start. I think he's going to be an excellent player. But my point is people are just gonna be like, how good is this guy? And if he's sweet right away or struggles, like, it'll be a pretty big story because they need him to be good. Replacing McDuffie, I feel like not a hot take.
- [54:23]
Jackson
I. I could see our Mason Thomas just having a more productive year than Peter was. Somehow just the. The pass rusher out of Oklahoma just put him on the edge. Maybe get some, like, cleanup minutes or something. They rotate him with Carlos, but so would Jet.
- [54:37]
John Middlecraft
What would you say?
- [54:37]
Jackson
Because I kind of.
- [54:38]
John Middlecraft
I would say the. I would say the other guy too. And I just like this player. Yeah, I think Chargers gonna be pretty good. And Mesador on a defense that was already good. Khalil Max back. He's just like 29 years old, ready to kick ass and take names. Like, I. I love Reuben Bain. I'm just not sure. I. I don't know about the Bucks, you know, I mean, that coaching staff. You were stunned how big Todd Bowles was Massive.
- [55:04]
Jackson
There's a photo.
- [55:05]
John Middlecraft
Everyone asked you what position he played, and you were like, guard. Was like, no, he's.
- [55:08]
Jackson
He played safety. Like guard. You're like, no, I was like, oh, yeah. D. End. No, he played safety. In the end.
- [55:13]
John Middlecraft
There's this funny photo.
- [55:14]
Jackson
Maybe we'll put it on here or whatever.
- [55:16]
John Middlecraft
But bad angle.
- [55:17]
Jackson
You're shaking it. You're shaking his hand, and it's just. It's just a bad angle.
- [55:28]
John Middlecraft
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John Middlecraft
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John Middlecraft
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- [58:18]
Jackson
What other best situations kind of preserve your mind? Are guys with pressure? I know you talked about some of the top dudes and we kind of talked off air a little bit about Carnell Tate and just like the, I mean he seems like a guy that's going to have a ton of pressure. You pick up fourth overall, it's like, hey, we're going to put you at the number one wide receiver. You're making 12 and a half million dollars. But I, I talked to you beforehand. They kind of sneaky for three guys that have never been wide receiver ones. Maybe Wondale was from New York at some times when they had injuries. Wanda was making 17 and a half, Calvin's making 17 and a half. And then you got this guy making 12 and a half. Probably more guaranteed money than maybe both of them at pick four. Just seems like a lot going on. New coach, new oc, a quarterback coming on. It seems like for Cardinal Tate, there'll be a lot of pressure for him to fit in and be that reliable number one receiver. I feel like he's got to be. But you're paying two other guys more dollars than he is.
- [59:10]
John Middlecraft
One second, oh, week one, we're playing our division rivals, the Houston Texans. Derek Stingley is going to cover you. Oh, week four we're playing first game against the Colts. Sauce is. You're going up against sauce. I don't know how good this guy's gonna be as NFL corner. But Travis Hunter, you know, who's drafted two overall. I mean it's the division. I mean the Texas defense is incredible. Colts defense in theory should be way better. You know Sauce CJ Allen, who I think is gonna be pretty good. I think all these linebackers people are pretty high on in the second round. So yeah, I mean Buckle, I, I thought that pick was a little crazy. One guy now he was pick 33 because they traded back a couple times. But there's just been so much negativity around the 49ers draft and they basically got stribling to be a younger, faster Juwan Jennings. You know, Juwan just signed with the Vikings, which obviously I think he, he was expecting like a 3 or $60 million deal and, and whenever Schefter does up to $13 million like so they gave him like $3 million with a bunch of incentives like what was the contract there? But I think Stripling is, you know, Mike Evans is old. You know, if he's on the field, what he'll be doing, he'll be fine. A lot of injuries, a lot of guys or they still have, you know, peak form in them. Ricky Piersall when he's on the field has been good, but he gets injured all the time and if Ricky Pierce all could ever stay on the field and people are going to just. This guy's a polarizing, it's not even his fault. But just because the 49ers and the draft and Kyle, their draft picks are going to be under the microscope. I, I like him, but I did see someone breaking down some of his production against the better teams in the SEC wasn't as good. He was good in the playoffs. I just think they like, you know, they're big on like character. He's like a high level guy, blocks and he can run. So you know, if you listen to, you know, a lot of people that talk to other people in the NFL like it's one thing if you're just like a draft analyst, but when you, when you hear DJ Talk or McShay, these guys are talking to other GMs so when they're like I'm telling you, people think this pick's crazy. All these other GM say he was going the next 10 picks like that, that's what matters. Like, he was a guy that a lot of people liked and because when you look, there were only a couple wide receivers in the second round that went, you know, Boston went six or seven picks later and then it was just a bunch of defense, mainly in the top 50. So it was a defensive heavy draft. And, you know, I. It's going to be fascinating. One pick that I love just because I love this guy. I remember watching Texas AIM, Texas A& M games thinking like, this guy's a badass. Is cash as. How now you text. When I text scouting buddies, they're like, john, his arms are like 22 inches long. Like, his arms are shorter than Bane.
- [62:03]
Jackson
That's crazy.
- [62:04]
John Middlecraft
It's crazy. Him and Bane for how good they were. If it, if Cassius Howell's arms were like 33 inches, he's going what, top 20? If Bane's arms were 33 inches, he's going top six. So the, these guys are going to be under the microscope with their arm length. But if you watch college football, Cassius Howell and Reuben Bain were easily two of the best players last year.
- [62:27]
Jackson
Yeah.
- [62:28]
John Middlecraft
And you know, Reuben gets to go to a team with a lot of good players. Like, they have a, they have a nucleus of guys. Cassius Howell, was he a transfer?
- [62:39]
Jackson
Oh, I think he was. I think it was a small school or he was a part of that freshman class that he was just there for a couple years because he would
- [62:48]
John Middlecraft
have, he would have played. He, he did play with Shemar Stewart. So now you put him with Shamar Stewart, who has. Who. If Cassius Howell played like he plays, but was in Shamar Stewart's body, he would have been like the second pick in the draft.
- [63:03]
Jackson
Yeah, they can just combine them.
- [63:05]
John Middlecraft
So I think, I think the Bengals defensive line, if Dexter Lawrence is going. Cassius Howell, Shamar Stewart, mafe. But they just got some reinforcements there and we know their offensive burrows healthy. I think the Bengals can be pretty good if it kind of all works out. Because your guy, I think I said Al golden, coach for Penn State, Notre Dame.
- [63:26]
Jackson
Yeah, that guy, he's a good, He's a good defensive mind. I think he's kind of transitioned well in the NFL. It's just outside of that third and 14 play against Ohio State. He's. He's a good mind. Two more. One more name I'll mention a guy that I, I like, since we're just naming dudes that I think are going to transition well, is Jeremy Bernard, the Steelers Bama wide receiver in the slot. Don't be surprised if he has games where he has more catches and more receptions than DK and Michael Pittman Jr. I think he's going to be a guy that Rogers is going to like that. Third and fourth down, just reliable target underneath. Played a lot of football. He was that fourth receiver with Washington when they made the national championship against Michigan a couple years ago, too. So just kind of a nugget. I know a lot of people are making fun of the, you know, the Steelers for missing out on Mai Lemon. Who we've had on the show was Greg Cosell. And you've had multiple people just mixed opinions about Mikhail Lemon, where for Jeremy Bernard, he's a high character guy, comes from Alabama and the DeBoer system. Like, I know what I'm getting out of him versus Mikhail Lemon. Just seems like a little more risk there for the first round. And I think the Steelers kind of bounce back and got a guy that they need there for that receiver.
- [64:30]
John Middlecraft
Why does Makai Lemon always look like he's stoned out of his mind? He just looks like he's at the
- [64:37]
Jackson
combine with the whole staring down thing. And then even him, like, when you heard the pick is in, he just kind of has this weird accent in him being like, oh, who is this? Like, why? Why feel he calling me? Like, why? Why? I don't know if he acted like that during the season because I never really heard him talk during the season or it was because after the Belinda cough or maybe all this hype around him now, he's kind of being like just a little too school, too cool for school. Just his personality and how he was acting during the off season and how Howie Roseman, the Eagles are real curious to see how that transition is. Like, does he kind of mature a little more around Big Dom? My. I don't. No way he talks like that three months from now in a press conference.
- [65:16]
John Middlecraft
You wouldn't think to me, all the guys who were drafted really high, you know, just. You just listen to them talk. They just sound completely normal. Some of them are cockier than others. Some, you know, Bane was mad. They could just talk. You watch this guy, you're like, I, I just got it red flagged. I. I don't know what's going on. Maybe he's taking edibles and he doesn't realize it's a little more powerful than he realizes.
- [65:39]
Jackson
But it's just.
- [65:40]
John Middlecraft
It's a lot.
- [65:41]
Jackson
The edibles control you, Makai. You can't control the edible. Go to something else.
- [65:45]
John Middlecraft
It's. It's weird. I mean it's I'm with you on the Eagles. They have you know you just, you just watch like we can nitpick AJ the way like passive aggressively or just should just keep it in house. Regardless. They do not carry themselves like Kyle Lemon Saquon. I mean it's, it's. I don't know. We'll see. He is a good physical player. The thing with your thing on Bernard, you know historically Aaron's him and Brady they young guys now. I think by all accounts Jeremy Bernard's like super high level guy, smart, very physical wide receiver. But he can be hard on young guys.
- [66:25]
Jackson
When I said, I mean I, I think it's like week 12, like week 10 maybe later in the season he kind of gets more receptions. But you're right he, he's, he wants he's probably going to throw to Michael Pittman Jr. Probably what, 80% of the seven I guess DK2. He liked DK but I would say
- [66:40]
John Middlecraft
Pittman feels exactly like the type guys they had in Green Bay forever.
- [66:44]
Jackson
Since we're on the yeah. Since we're on the AFC north topic,
- [66:48]
John Middlecraft
do you feel what do you what
- [66:50]
Jackson
do you feel about the Browns? The young talent around the Browns seems like they're kind of I, I don't know if they're on the on the come up but you look at some of the guys Mason Graham, Judkins sweatinger fan and they got last year all impact immediate rookies who are gonna probably surge in year two. Fano, Casey Concepcion, Denzel Boston, then Mikel Warren, Emmanuel, Mikel Warren they got in the second round too. Seems like they're starting to finally get some like young guys like Elite. Not maybe Elite's probably a strong word, but guys with tremendous upside in these drafts. You got to kind of feel a little better about the Browns heading into this season than you did at least last year. But just obviously the quarterback position is just the biggest what if. But it just seems like Andrew Barry's been kind of like circulating some things in other positions that you kind of kind of feel better about. The Browns heading into ot, I would
- [67:40]
John Middlecraft
say they feel like you said that stockhold on OpenAI like we all think AI is going to change the world like even and all these companies if you're in the stock market have been ripping because of what eventually you're going to have to turn a profit from AI and start generating money. It happened with startups forever. It was like Uber. It's like. Well that it's like eventually you got to start making some cash. And they did. Jeff Bezos Amazon lost a bunch of money in like the late 90s, early 2000s. He's like just wait, just wait, just wait. And he was right. Eventually you got to turn the corner. Like there's no disputing. And they were like this a couple years ago when they got rid of Baker because they thought they had the sweet roster and they did. And now it's a little different because some of those guys are veteran guys. They have a sweet roster of young nucleus and let's face it, if they wanted to, if they're shitty, they could probably flip Miles during the trade deadline or during the season four. I mean maybe not as much as they could have a couple years ago. Probably like a one and a couple twos. Like they, they could get some more, maybe two ones, who knows? Like they have that in their back pocket. But none of this is going to matter if they never get a quarterback. And last time they had the number one overall pick they took Baker Mayfield, who I, I think we've all kind of grown to like Baker. And when he's on, he's a fun player to watch and he's very enjoyable. He's got, he's got some of his Oklahoma flair back when he's on and healthy. But Josh Allen and Lamar were in that draft, you know, so I, Sam Darnold just won an mvp, you know, not MVP, but Super bowl mvp. No, Kenneth Walker did, but he won Super Bowl. So it just shows you I, I, they got to find a quarterback and if they don't, I just don't think any of this really matters.
- [69:27]
Jackson
Do you think like with the 2027 draft and how valuable because there's no first round picks that were traded in the off season from the 2027 class. If you were the Browns and you were contemplating about Miles Garrett, like the 2027 draft pick would be pretty valuable. Obviously you're going to get multiple picks, but that would be something if I was them. You've had the last two years in the drafts, you've killed both times. There are some edge rushers in this class that are younger. Even though I get Miles Garrett all time record, still playing at a high level. But it seems like if you want to strike now at a cheaper player like a Dylan Stewart or a Colin Simmons, some of these non quarterback guys like that could be a move for the Browns that they secretly do. I wonder if he would be the valuable of a 2027 first rounder that you wouldn't get like, if you got two first rounders for him and one of them was a 2027, does that equate as two first rounders? Like, what do you think the value, I guess, of like, what player? If I wanted to trade with someone a 2027 first round pick, Vice versa, like, how magnitude of a player could they get and how magnitude. How. How big of a magnitude is that 2027 first round pick? Does that make sense? I'm kind of rambling a little.
- [70:37]
John Middlecraft
No, but you kind of lost me.
- [70:40]
Jackson
I just feel like this class in this year, everyone just talks about 2027 being like one of the more unreal drafts and no one's training these first round picks. I'm just wondering how valuable would a first round pick, like, if I were to trade this 2027 in a 2028, would that be worth enough to get Miles Garrett or would I have to supply another one?
- [70:57]
John Middlecraft
Well, like, in theory, if this draft is 5x better than this last draft feud, you know where teams are like, we got 25 guys graded as first rounders, we have 12 blue chippers. Right. The Bengals would not if that. If this draft lives up to the hype, the Bengals wouldn't trade pick 10 for Dexter Lawrence straight up, but they do it. So the 10th pick in this draft might not be as valuable. Like, or, excuse me, the 10th pick in this draft might be equal to the 20th pick in the 27 draft.
- [71:30]
Jackson
Yeah.
- [71:31]
John Middlecraft
I also think Miles's value, like the Bills or the Eagles or the lines or whatever. What if you start like 1 and 4? Why not trade them like five weeks before the trade in line? Maybe like October 7th. So they have them the entire season. Right. Or if you kind of realize you're in training camp, what if you do one of those Micah Parson type deals? It's like, we're not going to get good anyway. Let's flip them August 25th and could we get someone? Because then at least there's the unknown. Because if I'm trading them to the Bills in the middle of October or the Eagles or the Lions and they're six and one, you got a pretty good idea that pick, give or take, is going to be 25 to 32, right? Beginning of the season, anything's possible. First game, quarterback could break his let. You just never know football. So I would, I would just keep a close eye in training camp because I think they'd have a pretty good idea. Like, yeah, we're not gonna be that good.
- [72:32]
Jackson
Yeah, I can. I just, I, I think you Know, obviously quarterbacks and stuff get so praised in this 2027 class. But all the non quarterbacks that are going to fall to some of these teams, like did you watch Colin Simmons? Like I just think it's unbelievable that we have a lot of elite other prospect groups that are just, you know, going to fall because these quarterbacks.
- [72:51]
John Middlecraft
You watch the ESPN doc, the pick is in.
- [72:56]
Jackson
I haven't yet. I've seen clips. I don't have ESPN plus so I don't know if I can watch it like on demand.
- [73:02]
John Middlecraft
I don't know if you can. I watch.
- [73:04]
Jackson
Is it better than the Colts video? Would you say no?
- [73:06]
John Middlecraft
Because it's still a lot of like they're doing a lot of green room stuff. It's kind of all over the map. Like some of the individual stuff in the draft rooms, a lot like that. But that's not the majority of. They're like interviewing Mel Kuiper, you know, three hours before the draft. Schefter, it's, it's probably a little cheesier but some of the meat like Andrew Barry is an impressive guy when he's in the draft room, you know and Jimmy Haslam just, he's not doing much. He's just the one thing you notice if you watch a lot of these draft room videos, like a good, a well run front office, the GM is just running point, right? He's got a right hand, a left hand man helping him out a little bit because you need help. Like guy on the phone, guy doing charts. But like you're in charge and you got any questions, you may throw it to the back of the room to your boy, you maybe call an assistant coach. But like you're running. Andrew clearly isn't, you know, is good on draft day. I think Andrew Berry, there's no disputing. He's, he's good on draft day. He's good at manipulating. Chris Ballard's good. You know I talked about on the podcast you said you watch that their video, they've been doing it for years. Is their media team's legit for the the off season. I always think their content is, is really freaking and Chris just, you know, like Howie, this Eagles video went viral. It's just the draft room kind of clips. What the Colts give you is kind of the lead up to the draft room which is really, really cool with the coaches in there with the scouts talking with them, kind of going back and forth with some of the kind of nerding out at the combine, which we don't some Teams show clips here and there, but, like, just like, we drafted this guy. Here's the clip. When we sat down with him for seven minutes and us nerded out and, you know, kind of pressed him on some things, which is. Which is cool to see.
- [75:02]
Jackson
I'm excited to see that Kentucky guard. I'm like, I want to follow him. The way they were talking about him falling in the fourth round, it was like gonna be a, you know, potential Quinn Nelson alongside. I mean, that's. That's a big piece for the Colts. I'll have to watch their old videos. I didn't know they did that every year. I just saw it on my YouTube recommendation, actually, right before I edited the Friday episode that was coming today, I guess. And I'm amazed by. I'm glad teams are starting to do that. I don't know why teams don't do that as much. Maybe because more are at the same time. If you're Chris Ballard, there is pressure on you that you are talking highly of a C.J. allen. He's probably going to end up well in the league, but if he flops, we have video evidence of you talking about it on YouTube everywhere. So I guess there's that side of things. But I think more teams, the Cardinals don't do that for social media. And it's.
- [75:47]
John Middlecraft
It's.
- [75:48]
Jackson
I love. I'm a nerd. I watch Hard Knocks. I watch everything. I die for that.
- [75:53]
John Middlecraft
Well, let's say. Let's say Jake Golday is actually his last name, the Cincinnati backer. Let's say he becomes fred Warner. And C.J. allen, who I'm a fan of, just his average. It's pretty clear. C.J. or, I mean, Chris Ballard, they had the. Because they traded down, and they could have taken either guy at 49 and they traded down knowing they get CJ instead of just. They could have just taken Gold Day right there. So if, like, that's. You do kind of get compared to other guys at your positions right there. So you know this stribling, like, if Denzel Boston is a star or vice versa, stribling's way better than Boston. You'd be like, ah, smart pick, because you had the choice. It's like you're just getting judged on the position. I don't even judge you that much. Like, if a guard goes next and he becomes an All Pro, it's like, clearly you. You wanted the skill guy, but I'm judging you on the other skill guy that you could have had that goes a pick or two later or Vice you know, so it's like all these linebackers like Miami, they take Jacob Rodriguez who was like up for the Heisman, who was awesome, but then like three more linebackers go over the next 10 picks. They clearly thought Rodriguez is a stud linebacker. Well, what if he better be better? You know, if you want to turn the franchise around, he's got to be better than these other guys. Unless they're all sweet, which is usually not how it works.
- [77:24]
Jackson
Jacob Rodriguez and halfway is going to be a fun. Jacob Rodriguez is the guy that's going to be in the league for 12, 15 years, has 100 tackles every year. And we're talking about. It was like an all pro Pro bowl kind of guy. I think he's that good. I mean, I think he's his ability to kind of take away the ball and he just always has a feel for, you know, punch and fumbles. He was a former four star quarterback at Virginia. I think he was ranked higher than like McCarthy and he was in that same class like Caleb Williams coming out of, out of high school. Kind of a fun story.
- [77:52]
John Middlecraft
But he was a quarterback to start his college career.
- [77:55]
Jackson
Yeah, Virginia. Yeah. And then he walked on to Texas Tech and then got a scholarship and then started at linebacker. And his story is ridiculous.
- [78:03]
John Middlecraft
And I know he's married to the, the Army Ranger, right?
- [78:06]
Jackson
Yeah, she's like a she Green Beret. Is that.
- [78:09]
John Middlecraft
Yeah. Incredible.
- [78:11]
Jackson
Is just incredible. That's just.
- [78:13]
John Middlecraft
I would love my, my son to be friends with their child.
- [78:20]
Jackson
Just keep him in check.
- [78:21]
John Middlecraft
Yeah.
- [78:21]
Jackson
Hey, Jack, go hang out. Go hang out with the. Rodriguez is a little bit.
- [78:25]
John Middlecraft
No, no, nonsense.
- [78:27]
Jackson
That's funny. Oh my gosh.
- [78:31]
John Middlecraft
One more thing I definitely wanted to hit on during these OTAs, like for all these young players. The majority of it is not how good you look at these practices. No one remembers any of them. You do need to learn the playbook and have a pretty good idea because over the course of the next month and a half, they basically give you everything that you re go over a training camp. The difference at training camp is right, right now it's like you fuck up, whatever, we'll be there tomorrow. Maybe we'll go play golf together in the afternoon. We'll do a team bonding. It's very chill. You do need to focus and learn the playbook going into the summer too because you have some downtime when you're just training on your own. Because once training camp starts, it's. You're drinking out of fire hose. In terms of next day, next day, next day, building into the game, getting ready, trying to get the roster. So whether you're a first round pick, you're on scholarship, first or second round pick, you're not getting cut, but the expectations are really high. And for all the other guys, like you're just any third day pick is just trying to make the roster. And it's very, very hard to make the roster if you don't know what's going on. And a lot of these guys come from programs that, you know, don't resemble necessarily like Sonny Styles. The Ohio State guys have a big advantage. They play for an NFL coordinator. They're going to be pretty comfortable with all the different stuff going on on defense. But some of these guys, especially offensively, it's going to be a dramatic change and it's impossible. I don't care what you do in life, if you're not confident, you're like, ah, I mean, how many times have you done this? You know, since, you know, as you got into this business, we're like, I don't know exactly. And you're doing behind the scenes editing and then early on you're like, I think I fucked that up. And then once you figure it out in a couple months, a month to a week, it, you do it with your eyes closed. Football's the same way. I mean, you played at Montana, you, if you don't know the play and you're like running out there or lining up, you're like, oh, I'm fucked.
- [80:32]
Jackson
Yeah, that's like anything in life, right? If football, if you're thinking and you have to run around or you have to, you know, do your position or whatever you have to do. If you're thinking that's not good. Like you do not want to be thinking, I want to be like unthinking when I'm out there, knowing where the coverage is, knowing everything's rolling. But you're more importantly, you're right like your assignment, especially how long these plays are in the NFL. Like I just, I think the transition and even like for some of these smaller school guys or the late round picks would be going up against the bigger cornerbacks or going up the bigger defensive line. Like Cardinals just signed a guy from southeast Louisiana. Barely any FCS players played. You're going into a camp as a four, as a day three guy. It's got to be pretty intimidating. If you don't have any confidence going in that you're going to make the
- [81:14]
John Middlecraft
roster one in day three guys, like if you're a fifth round pick, you can Beat out the guy who's been on the practice squad the last two years. But that guy is going to know what's going on. So his advantage is the coach is going to go, well, he knows what he's doing. Even if the scouts are like, this fifth rounder's got way more talent. But if he doesn't know what he's doing, that's where a lot of these arguments come. And they start now because in a couple weeks I'll be like, oh, this guy's behind. And you're just like, okay, give them the camp, give them this summer, Right? But this is the time where you have to figure it out, because the majority of guys that were just drafted are 100, not on scholarship. So to make the team now, it doesn't mean, like some offenses and defenses are harder. Sometimes, you know, you and a coach aren't going to hit it off. Like, who, who knows? Exactly. Or you get into a position room. It's kind of weird because one guy wants a raise or one guy wants a trade or, you know, you just. There's a lot of stuff going on.
- [82:13]
Jackson
I wonder how a Stribling will, like, transition from like kiffins to Shanahan's. To your point, I mean, he's a second round guy. You talked about, obviously your point a bit ago about how the first two, two guys, you know, no pressure, you're not going to get cut. But a guy like Stribling, where it's like, hey, you got to figure out the offense. We want you in the rotation, especially with a complex offense like that. For Shanahan, I feel like that's kind of the down part of how complex his offense is, is some of those rookies just take a while for the mindset, the thinking of the playbook before you can even go out and play and show your physical abilities, like, that's kind of a guy to me, that's just circle on and see if you can transition.
- [82:49]
John Middlecraft
And he came from Gundy, so it's not like, well, he played for Signetti and then he went to Ole Miss. This guy's been in a spread offense. Shanahan is like really, really hard on wide receivers because that's, you know, what he played in college. It was his baby. I do think having Mike Evans there, which if I was Stribling's agent or, you know, I'm sure Kyle's going to tell him this. He's like, I would follow Mike Evans like a puppy dog. Like, hey, can I babysit your kids? Can I come over what I would do everything he does because Mike's played and they've ran Shanahan concepts for Mike will have no problem. Even Pearsall, like, he's going to know the plays now. I would. You got to know the plays. Because if you don't know the plays, like Kyle wouldn't play Jerry Rice if he didn't know the place. As crazy as that sounds like he's IUK had a really, really hard time before he lost his mind as a rookie.
- [83:43]
Jackson
He just.
- [83:43]
John Middlecraft
They were just. He was in the doghouse. So I just think that the emphasis. This is where the difference of college. Because in college, even with nil, they're still 18, 19, 20. You still kind of hold their hand in college or in the pros. Find another guy. You know, they'll just find like, oh, this random guy. Undrafted free agent or will trade for this guy. They just will not care. It's. It's ruthless. So. And most. I mean striblings, obviously, if things went disastrous is still second round. He's fine. He's pick 33. He's gonna be on the roster for a while. But it's. It gets in camp to me is I remember when I got hired with the Eagles, I went to OTAs. I'm like, that is great life. We were like playing golf three times a week, going out to dinners. It was like. It was just. It was just such a chill time. And then training camp started. I was like two weeks in, I. I was just working. I was like, this is insane. So you just. The offseason, you got to be careful with. Not like, oh, we're going to a Giants game night as a team, you know, you just kind of. It can be really relaxed. And then training camps comes and it's like an F1 race. So I think it's a lot of pressure on these guys. And now with social media, we talk about these guys more, you know, I think that's a big deal. Like, a lot of these guys are drafted. The emphasis in intelligence and intangibles is like they'll just be really focused because you got to be pretty, you know. What's his Saban calling Kaden Proctor? Not a self starter. Like, you kind of got to be a self starter in the pros, you know.
- [85:17]
Jackson
Yeah, we don't. We don't need you looking at, you know, the donuts or the waffle maker in the breakfast.
- [85:22]
John Middlecraft
They don't even have. I don't think a lot of these places do that. A lot of these. I talked to my buddies for teams, they're like. Because when I was there, we had with Andy, fast food Friday. You get fries every day. There was definitely always fried food there. Even if you could eat healthy, no problem. But you had options if you wanted to grub out a little bit. I talked to a lot of buddies that say our. Our cafeteria is pretty clean living now. So it's. You don't have as many options to just eat like seven there. It wouldn't be a donut in these. Now where they do is they bring them in. They make the rookies bring them in. He probably powers down a couple on the drive. Remember? Was it you that texted me like, they're gonna start a McGuard. You're like, why didn't they just start him? Why didn't they just take the guard?
- [86:06]
Jackson
Yeah, yeah, they start. They're gonna start him at guard when they could have got Vega. Iwane that with three picks later to the Ravens. Just. Just a thought there. Dolphins, they had a weird draft.
- [86:18]
John Middlecraft
Well, if you.
- [86:18]
Jackson
And they're going to watch his way like a hawk Proctor like these can be probably weighing like every single week, maybe even day.
- [86:24]
John Middlecraft
Yeah, he'll. He's a everyday guy for one in training camp, 100%. My question is you drafted him high because. And I watched some of Eric Sullivan's press conference that night because he took some heat. They got. He was getting questions like. Because it was a little bit out of left. It wasn't quite Ty Simpson, but it was like, are you. You took him over like Reuben Bain. Like there were. The guard was a very safe pick that no one would even blinked right. If Miami just took the guard. He was the best player on our board. We feel safe. He took a little bit of a flyer. Why not just start him at tackle and let him figure it out? Then you're not going to be any good this year. Why don't you just let him play left or right tackle, wherever you want him starting McGuard. What's the point of that? Because. Because Sullivan was like put on the tape. He's one of the most talented players. There's no disputing his like, physical attributes are freakish. Someone DM me that when Saban left he went back to Iowa, but then he came back right before the season or something like that.
- [87:24]
Jackson
Yeah, he went to Iowa and they had like some dispute with Nil or something like that. Then he came back for spring ball for Bama. It was a weird. It was a weird situation. He like started as like a true freshman to Proctor and then just like gained a bunch of weight. They, that's why they called when he would run out and catch the ball on the sideline for, for Alabama against Georgia on that like third down or second down or something like that, which was crazy. They called it the crispy formation because he loves Krispy Kremes. That's like his thing. So I don't know if there's Krispy Kremes in Miami. We gotta just make sure he does not see the hot sign on because golly, those things can get you looking pretty big quickly. But speaking speaking of look big, we're both kind of losing weight a little bit. A little three and out weight loss journey behind the scenes. Since the combine, you just, you know,
- [88:09]
John Middlecraft
it's amazing what modern, modern medicine will do. But no matter what you're taking, whether you're disciplined or whether you have something helping you, it is, you got to be active physically, but your diet is just, is make or break. And my diet, my diet can go in waves. I can be really healthy and then I can just be like, that was a rough week. Sugars, carbs, where you just got no business doing that. You gotta, you gotta be disciplined. It's hard.
- [88:37]
Jackson
It is hard. I was laughing yesterday when you were saying you ate popcorn before the podcast. That's not an ideal podcast food.
- [88:44]
John Middlecraft
No.
- [88:45]
Jackson
You hydrate a lot before too. Because I feel like I gotta drink a lot of water before I do these because. Or else I'm always sipping.
- [88:50]
John Middlecraft
You know, one thing I've noticed, you know, in the off season, I, I have a little. My, my days are weird, right? You just never know with this little wild card named Jack Middelkopf. Like this morning, like, I, ideally, I would love to go to the gym at like 6:30, but last night he's like up all night. So I, I gotta, he gets back up at 7 o'. Clock. She's been up at 13 5. She's exhausted. I'm like, I'll take him. So basically from 6:45 7 to about 9:30, she's sleeping. Me and the honey badger out there, he's going nuts. And then, you know, she'll take them and I can get a little gym time. I'll take my gym bag, I'll go. They have this cold plunge now, but it's not like a plunge. It's more like a mini spa. Like you could fit two or three people in there. It'd be probably one like you would see at like an NFL facility. They redid the locker Room. It's badass. They've always had a steam room in a sauna. So I'll go in the sauna for like 15, 20 minutes, shower, then end with the cold plunge and I'll feel incredible. The problem is, is the red light sauna takes all my moisture out of my body. It's so hot that sometimes I'll be like five minutes into a podcast. I'm like, I got to be careful about using the red light sauna and not having enough hydration in me because I'll notice it when I'm podcast because I'll notice in days. I don't. I feel normal. It just takes all your everything out of you. And in Arizona, I think you got to hydrate a lot no matter what.
- [90:25]
Jackson
Yeah, people don't talk about that, man. You know, the preparation beforehand, the water, what you eat. Working out wise for a podcaster, man. No one, no one really talks about that. You end with a cold plunge. You end with a cold plunge and you leave like your legs are just freezing.
- [90:40]
John Middlecraft
Because they say. Because I didn't know this, did a little research. If you go like, if you cold plunge and then you go in a hot shower, it neutralizes and reduces everything the cold plunge brings to the table. Like the cold plunge is to limit the inflammation. Right. Part of it, it just wakes. I feel like I'm incredible. The other thing with a cold plunge is sometimes before they installed this cold plunge, I would just go sauna, steam room. Back then, the sauna wasn't strong. You sit in there for like 30 minutes, steam room and then leave. But in Arizona, from May to, you know, October, you walk out, it'd be 110 degrees, 180 degrees. So you are just drenched in sweat right after you shower. Look, you do the hot, the red light therapy. You can end with the cold plunge. I could put on a parka and walk out into 110°Arizona and I am not hot.
- [91:38]
Jackson
Do you go. Do you go chest down? Do you go full?
- [91:40]
John Middlecraft
Yeah, I go, I go like chest down. I just go in naked too. I go naked.
- [91:46]
Jackson
Naked. What, what, what places? Because the place I go to, it's. It's coed. We can't be going naked.
- [91:52]
John Middlecraft
No, no. Co ed at this place.
- [91:54]
Jackson
Naked in the cold plunge. This. It'd be looking like that.
- [92:00]
John Middlecraft
I've looked down a couple times and like it's holding strong.
- [92:06]
Jackson
Like I'm proud of you.
- [92:07]
John Middlecraft
I do. Wait, I won't share the cold plunge naked with another naked guy.
- [92:12]
Jackson
Do you got to like clean the water out or do you like take the water? The water's just there the entire time.
- [92:16]
John Middlecraft
Well, you got to sh. You got to I. You shower before you go in. It's like the, it's like the spa. It's chlorine go. You know, it's not just. I think a lot of cold plunges of water just sits there. This is one getting filtered in and out. Oh, 45 degrees. It's freezing. Yeah, it's incredible.
- [92:35]
Jackson
I gotta try that though because I always go cold plunge to the hot tub like I go to Lifetime. I just got a membership there. Shout out. Very expensive but very great new lifestyle change. I usually go cold plunge and then hot tub because the hot tub, it feels way hotter after you go from the cold plunge. And then I walk out like, okay, my legs feel really refreshed. But now I'm going to have to rethink everything because what you said, like I, I go to the cold plunge for the lack it acid so my legs can stop getting so sore. But if I go to the hot tub, then it basically just neglects it and then I don't, I don't get any benefits from it. I'm just rethinking everything.
- [93:11]
John Middlecraft
That's what the scientists are saying on Chad GPT on Google. So I, you know, I. Which would make sense because part of it is right when you ice your knee, you then don't wash it off with like a, you know, a hot shower, right? You just ice your knee if you have a bad, you know, an inflame knee or ankle and you just leave it once you're done. So it's because you have to let again, people probably listening are like, you have no clue what you're talking about. But I've been told this multiple times and I've seen multiple people doing this. And if you are going to shower after, if you don't shower necessarily before, which you should because you don't want to go in all dirty. Right to communal thing is finished with the cold shower. Troy Aikman. You see that guy? He's like 58, looks incredible. I mean I, I would die to be a quarter of his body fat. Whatever. I mean he might be in the single digits. He's a huge cold shower guy. I don't like cold showers.
- [94:13]
Jackson
I can't know. Not, not early. I feel, feel weird. But gosh, love these podcasts with you, man. Last time I was on, we talked Playboy, then we talked coldplunch.
- [94:23]
John Middlecraft
Enjoy Jackson. Thanks again and talk to you soon, buddy.
- [94:28]
Jackson
Sounds good. Can't wait the volume.
- [94:36]
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- [95:06]
John Middlecraft
Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guests, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Sydal help an acapella band with their between songs banter.
- [95:25]
Jackson
Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.
- [95:28]
John Middlecraft
Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.
- [95:42]
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- [95:43]
John Middlecraft
Some call it grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the Games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on £10. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts on the Look Back at it podcast from 1979. That was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians and favorite authors like Mark Lamont hill. On the 80s, the 84 was a wild. I mean, it was a wild year.
- [96:26]
Jackson
It was a wild year.
- [96:27]
John Middlecraft
I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.