3 & Out - Cowboys-Eagles Open the Season, What's going on in Cincy, Rich Eisen goes back to ESPN

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Herd with Colin Cowherd"
Episode: 3 & Out - Cowboys-Eagles Open the Season, What's Going on in Cincy, Rich Eisen Goes Back to ESPN
Release Date: May 13, 2025
Host: John Middlekoff
Platform: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume

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1. Season Opener: Cowboys vs. Eagles

The episode kicks off with an in-depth analysis of the highly anticipated Week 1 NFL matchup between the Dallas Cowboys and the Philadelphia Eagles. John Middlekoff emphasizes the significance of this game for both franchises, highlighting their recent successes and strong brand presence in the league.

Key Points:

• Importance of Prime-Time Games: Middlekoff discusses how prime-time matchups like Cowboys vs. Eagles are pivotal for television ratings and fan engagement. He states, “[...] these two games are going to be packers versus the Bears, which is just an easy no brainer game. Regardless." (21:50)

• Team Performance and Expectations: He assesses the Cowboys’ and Eagles’ prospects for the season, mentioning the Cowboys’ consistent division wins and the Eagles’ robust roster that is likely to secure a playoff spot.

Notable Quote:

“What did Brian Schottenheimer do on third, Nate? What play did he call? Why did he waste a timeout?”
— John Middlekoff (25:15)

2. Cincinnati Bengals: Contract Disputes and Rookie Concerns

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the Cincinnati Bengals' internal issues, particularly focusing on pass rusher Trey Hendrickson and their first-round pick Shemar Stewart.

Key Points:

• Trey Hendrickson’s Contract Dispute: Middlekoff delves into Hendrickson’s dissatisfaction with his contract negotiations, referencing his public comments: “[...] what are we doing? It's one thing to lowball a player that's a free agent because he's highballing you and you end up meeting in the middle.” (31:45)

• Shemar Stewart Sitting Out Rookie Minicamp: The host highlights the unprecedented move of the Bengals' first-round pick not participating in rookie minicamp, questioning the organization's management and strategy.

Notable Quote:

“This situation is a little more complicated, and it's easy for every swinging dick on television to go like, 'he's getting screwed.'”
— John Middlekoff (35:30)

3. Rich Eisen’s Return to ESPN

John Middlekoff touches upon Rich Eisen's move back to ESPN, pondering the implications for NFL Network amid ongoing challenges.

Key Points:

• NFL Network’s Stability: Middlekoff suggests that Eisen’s departure is indicative of broader issues within the NFL Network, referencing the departure of other personalities like Peter Schrager.

• Future of NFL Broadcasting: He speculates on the potential absorption of NFL Network content into ESPN, considering the financial and viewership struggles of the former.

Notable Quote:

“Rich Eisen is going back to ESPN, which tells you everything you need to know.”
— John Middlekoff (39:10)

4. Michael Jordan and NBC’s Coverage

The podcast briefly explores the surprising news of Michael Jordan joining NBC’s sports coverage, expressing skepticism about his role and the potential impact on broadcasting quality.

Key Points:

• Unclear Role: Middlekoff admits uncertainty regarding what Michael Jordan will specifically do at NBC, questioning if his presence will enhance or detract from the viewing experience.

• Comparison with Other Athletes in Media: He draws parallels with other sports figures who transitioned to broadcasting, noting the mixed results.

Notable Quote:

“If Michael would talk like he's had a couple cocktails and letting it fly, he'd be good. I just don't know if we're getting that guy.”
— John Middlekoff (42:00)

5. Mailbag: NBA Lottery and Conspiracy Theories

In the mailbag segment, Middlekoff addresses listener questions and comments about the NBA Lottery, expressing concerns about its fairness and transparency.

Key Points:

• Perceived Corruption: He voices suspicions about the legitimacy of the NBA Lottery, especially in light of recent events that align closely with his theories.

• Impact on Teams and Draft Picks: The host discusses how perceived manipulation of the lottery affects team strategies and fan trust in the process.

Notable Quote:

“Tonight was not about the Mavericks tonight and the last was about the Lakers and a league that, you know, in the height of Curry LeBron in like 2015, 2016.”
— John Middlekoff (44:50)

6. NFL Scheduling and Team Dynamics

Middlekoff provides an analysis of NFL scheduling practices, focusing on the emphasis on divisional games and the strategic placement of teams like the Cowboys and Eagles in prime-time slots.

Key Points:

• Flexible Scheduling: He discusses the NFL’s approach to scheduling games based on team performance and marketability, citing examples like the Packers vs. Bears in prime time.

• Injuries and Their Impact: The host highlights how early-season injuries can drastically alter a team’s trajectory, using the Packers' quarterback injuries as a case study.

Notable Quote:

“The games are what you watch in the league. They are what drives our interest the most.”
— John Middlekoff (38:25)

7. Quarterback Comparisons and Team Strategies

A substantial discussion delves into the evaluation of quarterbacks across the NFL and their impact on team success, comparing veterans like Derek Carr with emerging talents such as Jalen Hurts and Justin Herbert.

Key Points:

• Evaluating Talent vs. Team Support: Middlekoff debates whether a quarterback’s success is solely based on individual talent or the surrounding team infrastructure.

• Future Projections: He speculates on the career trajectories of current quarterbacks and how their performance in upcoming seasons could cement their legacies.

Notable Quote:

“You can say it's a human business and it is, but you wouldn't be doing this... you're doing it because there's a lot of money on the line.”
— John Middlekoff (50:15)

8. Listener Questions and Personal Anecdotes

Towards the end of the episode, Middlekoff engages with more listener-submitted questions, ranging from sports strategies to personal experiences, adding a relatable and interactive element to the discussion.

Key Points:

• Coed Bachelor Party Tips: He responds to a unique listener query about planning a coed bachelor party, offering practical advice while expressing his surprise at the concept.

• Historical Comparisons: Middlekoff draws parallels between past and present NFL teams, debating the best defenses of all time and their applicability in today’s game.

Notable Quote:

“I do think Herbert’s production in the playoffs is overrated. How could you realistically take Herbert?”
— John Middlekoff (60:45)

9. Closing Remarks and Final Thoughts

John Middlekoff wraps up the episode by reiterating key points and encouraging listeners to engage with the podcast through subscriptions and feedback.

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Notable Themes and Insights

• Franchise Management: The podcast underscores the importance of effective management and strategic decision-making in building successful NFL teams.

• Media Influence in Sports: Middlekoff highlights the significant role media personalities and broadcasting decisions play in shaping public perception and the business of sports.

• Player-Organization Relations: The dynamics between team management and players, especially regarding contracts and team commitment, are explored as critical factors influencing team performance.

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Conclusion

In this episode of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd," John Middlekoff provides a comprehensive analysis of key NFL topics, from the excitement of the season opener between the Cowboys and Eagles to the intricate contract disputes within the Bengals. His candid discussions on media shifts, such as Rich Eisen's return to ESPN and Michael Jordan's new role at NBC, offer listeners a deep dive into the intersection of sports and broadcasting. The mailbag segment adds an interactive dimension, addressing listener concerns about the NBA Lottery and fostering a community dialogue. Overall, Middlekoff delivers a well-rounded episode filled with insightful commentary, making it a valuable listen for sports enthusiasts looking to stay informed and engaged.

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Note: The timestamps referenced (e.g., 21:50) are indicative and correspond to the sections discussed. Links have been omitted for brevity.

Transcript

[John Middlekoff]

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Can't recommend them enough. But it's not just during the daytime. What about night? You want to go to a restaurant, you want to go to a nice dinner, they have you covered with button ups. It doesn't get any more comfortable. Been rocking them for a while. But what about her? Oh yeah, they also have a women's line. We actually went to a birthday party the other day and Maria wore one of their dresses. Can't recommend them enough. It's effortless, elevated style made just for her. Head to travismathu.com and get 20% off your first order the volume. What is going on everybody? John Middelkopf3 and out podcast how are we doing? Hopefully everyone is doing well out there in the real world here's the drill. We're going to talk some sports because the Dallas Cowboys are playing The Eagles Week 1, Thursday night, opening night for the NFL. The Bengals got some stuff going on. They had a star pass rusher who's not happy with this contract. Got shifty on the horn and had some comments. Their first overall pick, I think he was the 17th overall pick. But their first round pick did not participate this weekend in rookie minicamp which to my knowledge is pretty unprecedented. Some some media stuff. Rich Eisen goes d espn. I got a couple of thoughts there. Michael Jordan is going to participate in NBC's coverage. Little dubious on that one. We're going to do a mailbag. I actually recorded the first part of the podcast and then before I did the mailbag I watched the lottery which is I'm sure going to be a massive story on Tuesday on all the shows. It's, I mean I got to give a couple quick thoughts on that because give me a break. I mean talk about an all time rig lottery. Listen, Nico was the fall guy and I think it's pretty clear and I will dive into that one as well as the mailbag. Answering your football questions at John Middelkoff at John Middlekoff. Fire in those dms. You guys know the drill. If you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to three and out subscribe to three now, Apple, Spotify, wherever you listen. Also YouTube. Make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel. All of our contents up there. Appreciate everyone that subscribed but before we dive in to anything football related to anything Dallas Cowboys versus the Eagles, I do need to tell you about my friends, my partners in the official ticketing app of this. If you want to go to one of these NFL games, we are going to know the schedule. I think. Is it, is it Wednesday or Thursday the 14th, 15th? I don't know. I probably should look that up. It's this week. We're going to get the schedule. Games starting to leak out a little left and right. Trager threw something out there about Saturday, December 20th. I know some of you like to get ahead. Got to be a little careful now with some of the flexible scheduling. But for the most part if you want to take a trip, go see your team in a venue. Make a weekend trip out of it. We will know soon. Utilize game time. Their ability to search by team, their ability to search by venue, search by price point does not get any easier. I've used them all. Cannot recommend these guys enough. As well as NBA hockey, Major League Baseball, obviously concerts and comedy shows. You guys know the drill. Take the guesswork out of buying tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account, use the code JOHN. They're $20 off your first purchase terms apply again, create an account and redeem the code johed for $20 off. Download the Gametime app today. Last minute tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. I'm recording this before the lottery, so interested to watch how that plays out. But it kind of hit me today. I was, I was at the gym and I looked up and you know the shows are on. Even Coward was talking about it. From First Take to every show on FS1 they're leading their show with where is Giannis gonna go? It's like, guys, this is the middle of the playoffs. This is the middle of the time when we should be talking about the games. But in basketball, the soap opera nature of stories like that dwarf anything on the court every single time. So honestly, when I looked, I wasn't that surprised. Very on brand. And the thing with the NFL, there is a soap opera nature. Hell, the Cowboys and the Eagles have thrown their hat in the ring over the years, playing a major, major part in that. But nothing ever trumps the games. The games are what pays the bills in the league. They are what drives our interest the most. What did Brian Schottenheimer do on third, Nate? What play did he call? Why did he waste a timeout? What is Sirianni doing? Why is so and so not in the game on a must have play? Maybe it's Dallas Goddard, maybe it's A.J. brown on a goal line play in a tie game of the in the second half against the Cowboys. And that's just week one. I can't imagine the playoffs talking about anything but the games at hand. Obviously coaching moves. And there is soap opera drama to the NFL. I'm not arguing or disputing that. But the games are always going to be the most important thing, and that's really separated the NFL is we care so much about these individual matchups. Like we already know who is playing every single opponent. We know that we got that a long time ago, how we got that when the season ended, you know, the rotation year to year, you know, Wherever you finish first, second, third, fourth place, where your schedule is based, know the 49er schedule, which is a joke forever now. We don't know the dates in which the games are played, how many Monday night games you get, what is your Thursday night game. And we saw last year, the good teams get multiple Thursday night games. But forever the NFL has forever be strong but I would say recently over the last half plus decade they have really tried to hammer home divisional games at the end of the season and sometimes it's worked out brilliantly. We have gotten last year is a good example. The Lions and the Vikings played the last game of the season and it wasn't just for the division, it was for the number one seed. You can't get a better scenario, but you also get situations where it's like the Rams and the Niners are playing and there's nothing on the line for either team. So you never know. And the hard part about the NFL schedule is beside week one as you go, we see so many injuries. I mean look at last year. The Eagles played the Packers Friday night in Brazil and Jordan Love got hurt. So Jordan Love week two and week three couldn't play. So and some of these injuries happen in training camp. I would say less and less because of the nature of no double days. No one really plays in the preseason. But once the season starts, injuries have a major, major impact on who's playing, especially at quarterback. But I think the Cowboys are a good example. Obviously when you win the super bowl, you're a lock to host that game on Thursday night. It's a cool moment and typically, I mean, you know, the Chiefs have won in the last couple of years. You know that team is going to be good. I would say it would take a catastrophe for the Philadelphia Eagles not to be in the playoffs. I honestly have struggled to see a scenario where they are not a playoff team. Now quarterback injuries can have a dramatic impact, but their overall roster, even if their quarterback play was was average, would still be pretty tough to beat given how dominant their running back is, how great their offensive line is and how good their defense is going to be like they are going to be a good team. But when it comes to the Cowboys, who for three straight seasons or definitely the last two seasons had been coming off 12 win years. So in 2023 and in 2024, the Eagles and the Cowboys had both established we're good teams. We are playoff 12, 13, 14 win contenders. The Cowboys had been winning the division two of those three years and the Eagles had been to a Super bowl. Those two games when they played, which are enormous moments for the league. Obviously the Cowboys, I think you would, I don't even think it's an argument are the biggest brand, especially if they're good when it comes to television ratings and the Eagles are in the mix. If they're good as being one of the most important brands in the league and they typically played the first or second or like the last, the 16th or 17th week. Right. Whether that was the end of December or early January and they've played sometime in November. Well, if you're the league office, you go, are we sure Dallas is going to be any good? Because I was thinking today, am I going to go? I picked Dallas to make the playoffs last year. I was obviously wrong though. I think they would have been a little more competitive if Dak hadn't been injured. But Cooper Rush actually wasn't terrible. But the defensive injuries regardless, I mean they, they drafted 12th, so that one was a whiff. But ultimately like the league's going Brian Schadenheimer, Jerry's getting a little weird. If you were betting, man, are they more likely to win seven games or 11 or 12 games? And I think the answer would be seven. So this game is really, really important because if they're both good, it does huge ratings. Well, week one you can't really screw it up. So you might as well utilize the Cowboys week one. And I think that's why they did it because Peter Schrager tweeted out today that this has happened right in recent years is the NFL play Saturday games once the college football season ends and the bowl games start. Well now with the playoffs, they did it last year. They play a couple Saturday games while the first round of the college football playoffs are going on. And Traeger tweeted out that the two games were are going to be packers versus the Bears, which is just an easy no brainer game. Regardless. If the Bears don't live up to the hype, it'll be fine. And the Eagles playing Washington I think two years ago before Jaden Daniels and Dan Quinn and Adam Peters showed up and Josh Harris bought the team. That's Eagles Cowboys. So Washington being good has enabled them to make this move because they can say whatever they want. I think this is a good indication of we don't know what Dallas is going to be. And even if Dallas is terrible, they're still not like this isn't the Jags and the Arizona Cardinals on television. They still move the needle and are a big brand for Fox. But this is the NFL, not the NBA. Right. If Giannis gets traded to San Antonio, it's a great story for everyone that talks about basketball to hammer home for the next couple months. But those games will not outrate Steph Curry on playing putt Putt on abc. You know, I mean that's just a reality where in the NFL, the Bills and the packers and the Kansas City Chiefs, these are in tiny markets, and they do 20, 25, 30 million people. Because if you're a good NFL team, we will watch. And I think now that Washington's good, it's just an easy replacement. So I think the treatment that the Cowboys have got these last several years, and they earned it because they were a, you know, a playoff 12 + win team, Washington is going to get that treatment now, and that's why they utilize the Cowboys week one. And I do think, you know, the NFL is praying the Bears are going to be good, and I think we will see that with the television setup. Come here in a couple of days. They gave the treatment a little bit to the jets, and I think Rogers went on record last year of like, he was kind of told that the jets and. And himself owed the league one because they had put him on the primetime games. Then he torn his Achilles. I think the league would love for the Bears to be good. I mean, the market's massive, the brand's big, obviously their team's talented, but sometimes you just never know where, you know, I think that's what's fascinating about the schedule in general is the league makes a couple bets, right? And I would imagine the Bears are going to be one of those. For the most part. You don't really have to do it, right? And we'll find out, like, if Aaron Rodgers haven't signed. How they treat the Steelers. Now, you probably treat the Steelers like, always give them primetime games. They're one of the biggest brands in the league, and at the end of the day, even if they don't live up to the hype that everyone that follows the team wishes they would, they're still going to win nine or 10 games and be very competitive. And they never really let you down. But there are always some franchises that you go in on. The 49ers were one of those teams, right? They got the max amount of slots and they had earned it because they had been a Super bowl team. And then all of a sudden, McCaffrey's injured team's not as good, and they're playing in primetime games, losing. So it's just. It's not an easy job. And I think a lot of people hype it up. It's like, oh, this is. This is. No, this is easy. I don't know. I think the schedule thing, lot of moving parts and just a lot of unknowns, but I think the Eagles, Cowboys, that's a. That's a fantastic start and then Chargers Chiefs in Brazil on Friday night is really cool as well. 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[Dan Flores]

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[Maria]

The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. Hosted by me writer and historian Dan Flores and brought to you by Velvet Buck, this podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode I'LL be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best selling author and meat Eater founder Stephen Rinella.

[Willie Colon]

I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people and I'll say it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves.

[Maria]

So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

[John Middlekoff]

Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. One of the big stories over the last 24 hours has been the Cincinnati Bengals and I got to throw a red flag on one situation and I gotta say I'm going to support them in another. And I think two things that have happened over the last couple days is Trey Hendrickson basically went on record with Adam Schefter today discussing his displeasure that no one has talked to him since the draft. There have been no communications on a new contract. That sounds kind of crazy. When you read the headline, you realize the draft was like two and a half weeks ago. It's like we're acting like this was four months ago. I don't think it's that crazy. We're focused on the draft and we're focused on getting the guys in. I don't think that's the craziest thing and we'll dive into that in a second. But the bigger story was the Bengals first round pick Shemar Stewart, the really physically gifted player from Texas A and M athletic freak, didn't really produce at the level of his athleticism, but was drafted 17th overall and pretty intriguing draft pick is it's either kind of a boom or bust. Feels like they're swinging for the fences. Don't hate it. Don't love it. Understand it. Add pick 17. Don't hate it. He did not practice this week at rookie minicamp, which is kind of crazy given that everyone practices if they're healthy. He just stood there and watched. So like, given that this is a borderline unprecedented situation, I had to do some digging. There was an article today in the Cincinnati Inquirer that one of the issues because I thought one of the reason all these guys practice not because most of them have their rookie deal signed before rookie minicamp, they do not. They typically get an injury waiver. So if something catastrophic were to happen, they would be covered. And the reality is, the type of practice that you have now at these rookie minicamps is a joke. I mean, OTAs in general is nowhere near what it used to be. And the majority of this stuff is walkthrough mental stuff. The chances of people getting hurt now are very, very slim. Still, football still definitely a risk. And at any moment, someone could fall on you, things that are out of your control. So it's like there is some understanding of a risk that you are taking. Now, the issue that the Inquirer reported was everything is slotted now, right? I just read that the Seattle Seahawks have signed the North Dakota State guard who was the 18th overall pick. So you are seeing rookie sign left and right. What are you really arguing over? You can argue over dates in which bonuses are paid, right? I give you a signing bonus. How we prorate that, how it's paid, the percentage in which it's paid. And injury guarantees has been an issue somewhat that teams have butted heads on. Well, Cincinnati, I guess, had offered Stewart a lower percentage than Dallas. Turner got in the same slot last year from the Vikings. So he's like, at most we should just be on par with that. There is a precedent set. So while I will get into defending Cincinnati a little bit, when it comes to Trey, this one feels like, listen, part of negotiation should be a little back and forth. There shouldn't really be any with this. This should be pretty black and white. Like, what are we doing? It's one thing to lowball a player that's a free agent because he's highballing you and you end up meeting in the middle. Is highball even a term? You know what I mean? He comes in low, I come in high. And we eventually know we're going to meet in the middle, right? You list your house overpriced for a million dollars. I come in at 850. I know we're going to end up meeting at 928 and be cool with it. I know you'll take it. Your agent's already told my agent. They're like, listen, if you can just get close to the 950 number. I said, listen, I'll come up a little before nine, but we're going to meet in the middle. That's not what this is. These things are slotted in Cincinnati. Like, I think sometimes when you get a negative, there's like a narrative or a talking point about you as a human being, as a company, as a franchise. It's hard to shake that Right. And I would say when people think about Cincinnati, their first reaction is somewhat negative. It's like, ah, kind of a low level franchise. So when this story comes out, it's easy for everyone to pile on them. Where if you're a high level franchise, like if I had told you that Howie Roseman or Les Snead was in a standoff about a situation like this, those guys would get the benefit of the doubt. You'd be like, what's up with that fucking agent? And here's the reality of agents. The agent of the player does not give a shit about the team. That is not his job. I think sometimes they overhype. Like, I love my guys, I love my relationship. No, you're in the business of getting your 2, 5, whatever your points are on the deal to make money so that your 17 year old drives a Mercedes as well. Like this is a business. Let's, let's not get it twisted. You can say it's a human business and it is. You're representing players. But you wouldn't be doing this. You're not doing this for charity here. You're doing it because there's a lot of money on the line and ideally you're buying in early to get that second contract and really go cha ching. So like the, the objective of the agent and the objective of the team are never going to be the same. The team only cares about doing what's best short and long term for the franchise and trying to win. The agent just does not give a shit. His, the player he represents might, but the agent does not. But in a situation like this, like, I'm sorry, bad look for the Bengals, also just bizarre. Like, of course this happens to the Bengals. Now the Trey Hendrickson thing is a little, I would say there's a little more gray area. He's 30 years old, will be 31, just had a career, two years where he had 35 sacks. Would you be in the business of giving 100 plus million dollars to a guy that broke out in his career at 29 and 30 years old? Because I don't know, I might struggle with that. Like it'd be one thing. It's like, hey man, you could get me for two years and $60 million. I don't think he's signing that contract. He's looking at Max Crosby, he's looking at Miles Garrett like he wants a long term, huge deal. And while they just signed their two wide receivers, those guys are younger players. Trey Hendrickson was not a guy they drafted. He was a guy they got because it did not work out for him in his first stop. And part of that was injuries, but part of that was just figuring out how to become a pass rusher. And he's coming to his own and he's been an excellent dominant player. But I do understand if I ran the organization and I think this is how it would be if the Ravens ran it, if the Eagles ran it, if the Chiefs ran it. This isn't just a no brainer here, Trey. Here's your blank check. And I think for him. And I saw J.J. watt tweeting like, of course they told him, have another big year and then we'll take care of you. Yeah, this guy's his business. You know, this is one of those things. If it's a little more complicated than just give him a bunch of money, like, ultimately, T. Higgins is getting a lot of money no matter what. The Bengals just had to decide, like, are we going to invest a lot of money in two players at the same position? This is one of those where even good teams would be like, yeah, we're going to hesitate on giving an older player that much money now. Maybe he goes on to have three more years, no injuries, kicks ass, and you look back and go, God, it was a no brainer. But what if, like, you're a year and a half in, you're like, God, he's already banged up again because he was early on in his career. So I think it's easy for him to come out and kind of paint the Bengals as the bad guy. And no one is going to defend them because of what's going on with their rookie. But I do think this situation is a little more complicated. And they're going, you're not a free agent. It's not like we're franchising you. You're on a contract for $15 million. Like we've already. Now listen, their owner's daughter had made some comments a while back that not the way I would do business. But I also think Trey coming out like this, I don't think that's helping his cause either. So I think this is a more complicated situation and it's easy for every swinging dick on television that played in the league to go like, he's getting screwed. He is getting fucking railroaded. And that's going to be the majority of shows you're going to turn it on. And listen, is he underpaid if they make him play at 15 million, 1000%? But like, what's he looking for? What deal would he Be willing to sign. Because if he goes Max Crosby or Miles Garrett, I gotta say no, dog, not for me. And the problem is if you're the Bengals, like, what's his market? Does he have a lot of teams? I know a lot of Lions fans hit me up, like, when are we going to do something big? Like what are the Lions going to trade a first round pick and give him $100 million? No chance. So. Because that would be crazy business. The Rams, maybe they get back to their roots. They got two first round picks, you never know. But I don't think that one is as like black and white, right and wrong, you know, judging each side as I feel like it's made out to be on the interweb. A couple other quick things. Rich Eisen is going back to espn, which I don't spend too much time on media news, but that's interesting because Rich Eisen hosts the NFL draft, host Sunday football for the NFL Network and host the combine. Kind of an important cog in the NFL Network. A month plus ago, Peter Schrager, I would say one of the bigger NFL Network personalities also left. There have been rumors for well over a year now that the NFL Network is in major trouble and the NFL would gladly get rid of it. A year ago they moved Good Morning Football, maybe even a little less from New York to la. Everyone's like, why'd you do that? It's like, why are we paying this enormous studio fee when we have a free one that we're already paying for in Los Angeles? They want to get rid of this. It is not making any money. They want out of this business. It is not worth it for them. And I think Peter Schrager and Rich Eisen bouncing tells you everything you need to know. My guess is, and he's a friend of mine and I think it's a no brainer. Listen, Mel is coming down the home stretch. He's had a hell of a run. And I'm not some Mel hater. I know he became a, I don't even want to say controversial figure, but you know, him going nuts about Shador Sanders, like that's Mel's job. Like he's been doing this for a long time. Like I would not surprise me at all if Daniel Jeremiah is next. And I think the NFL Network, if you tell me that it does not exist in a year because even if the ESPN quote unquote buys it, they're just going to run everything through espn. People do not watch NFL Network. And the other thing that I saw Today is that NBC is going to hire Michael Jordan. They didn't really. I haven't quite figured out exactly what he's going to do. It's not like he's going to be calling games. Maybe he shows up and makes some special appearances. Call me old school, but I'm kind of a sucker for mysterious celebrities, really famous people. You know, part of social media, which I think it's directly impacted the death of legacy media, like, we just know too much about these people and what they think about every issue. Like, I don't need to know that. One thing I feel healthier about in my life, I spend way less time on Twitter. It's like, why do I need to know what every newspaper writer thinks about every situation in this world? And newsflash, I don't. And I'm healthier for reading less of it. And I think part of what makes Michael Jordan so special is we don't know that much about him. And I think we have seen. And listen, I worked at a radio station where the guy that ran it got a hard on for famous people. He would do anything to get a big name on the radio station. And sometimes if they were a good radio interview, it was really good. But just because the guy was famous, if it was terrible radio, which if it was really terrible, it would also be good. But there was a lot of like, this is unlistenable. And I think historically, you see with television, they have the same mindset. Let's get the most famous guy possible involved in our sport. We've seen it in football over the years. Jerry Rice, I don't remember this, but Joe Montana was on tv. Obviously he did not go well. Emmett Smith, we've seen it over and over. It's why Greg Olson like talents, talent. Pat McAfee was a punter. You know how many people involved in pro sports like, be like, I could do that. It's like, no, you couldn't. No one would watch you after a while. You're not entertaining. And I think we've seen it with Magic Johnson, who just not that great on television. And I do wonder if Michael Jordan. Now listen, if Michael would talk like he's had a couple cocktails and letting it fly, he'd be good. I just don't know if we're getting that guy. Listen, Tom Brady to a man. Every single human that's ever played with him swears by the guy. It's like he's, he could balance this dude's dude. Super famous. People loved him. It's like he's just one of the guys. I'd say they said the same thing about Peyton Manning. And Peyton just refused to go all in. He kept it, you know, light with Eli. But Tom then started doing the television stuff in calling games. And you're like, where's the Tom that we've heard about? And he struggled because he's like, he's got the PR team. It's just hard, which I will defend him. I understand. It's hard to be the guy that like a borderline F word could come out of your mouth. You know every sentence. So there's this balance of. But then you become too corporate and you're like, show some personality. And I think, Michael, I don't know. I mean, I'm not saying it's going to fail. I idolized as a kid Michael Jordan. If you were my age, I don't care if you lived in Seattle, if you lived in Florida, if you lived in Davis, California, you had some sort of Bulls apparel. I had a pair of shorts and I had the jersey as well as a poster signed by Michael Jordan that's in my closet right now. It's one of my prized possessions and I don't really care that much about that type stuff. I also have a Jack Nicklaus signed to John Jack Nicholas, best of luck. Like, basically wrote me this thing because my dad had fished with this guy who then was buddies with Jack and fish with him. My mom put in front of the sun. And over the course of like a decade when I was a kid, it disappeared. So now it's just a picture of Jack. You can't even see the writing. Can't say the same about Michael. Still looks good. Best wishes, Michael Jordan. But I don't know. I would tend to lean. I'm not trying to be pessimistic. I'm not trying to be a negative Nancy. Then it's going to be a lot of hype and not much substance behind it. Okay, let's end on this. Welcome to chasing challenges brought to you by Microsoft. In the NFL, just like in the business world, overcoming obstacles is key to success. Microsoft empowers business decision makers with AI solutions, simplified cloud and data management, and trustworthy, reasonable technology to turn challenges into opportunities. In this segment, we explore some of the biggest challenges being faced in the NFL and how they can be overcome. Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise to say, bring it on. This week, we're discussing the challenge faced by the New Orleans Saints, their quarterback, which obviously was a weird situation, but he'd been their starter the last couple years. Retires. They have a couple guys on the roster before the draft named Jake Hayner, who they drafted mid rounds, who was essentially beat out the last couple last year by Spencer Rattler, who they drafted I think in the third round. And then they draft Tyler Schuck here in the second round. And I think Kellen Moore said or kind of leaked out that we're just going to have an open competition. To me, I think the move is pretty simple because I think if you're the Saints, you either need to do two things. One, you just need to suck. So you are in position to have the number one overall pick and draft a quarterback and change your franchise and get out of this quarterback purgatory situation that just forced you to give over $70 million guaranteed a couple years ago to Derek Carr. Or even if you're not as good, Tyler Schuck should get every rep. Tyler Schuck should play every game as long as he's physically able. And just find out, do we have anything here? Can this guy like, does he show enough to go, hey, we're drafting fourth, we're not going to take a quarterback. We're going to believe in this guy for the next couple, couple of years. We're going to give this guy an opportunity. We're going to invest in this player. But those are your only two options now. So to me, maybe it's just politically correct and you got to do it for the morale of your locker room, but the only thing internally they should be thinking about is Tyler Schuck's going to be our starting quarterback and we're going to learn one way or another, is this guy good enough moving forward? Can this guy be at least our long term starting quarterback over the course of his rookie contract? If we build up a good team around him, can we compete with this guy? Because if we can't, the only thing that matters then is losing. To put us in a position kind of like the Titans, to get a Cam Ward and then pivot moving forward. Now, not ideal. They would have drafted quarterbacks in the last three years, in the fifth, in the third, and in the second round. But listen, if you don't have one, no one will fault you for drafting another one. So if I'm the Saints, this is going to be a weird year. You don't have much experience in your quarterback room. You have a first year head coach who's a younger guy. You got Brandon Staley coaching defense. Who knows what's going on there, but there should be one goal and one goal only. Figure out the quarterback position. Is the kid good enough? Not even a kid. He's like 30 years old. You know what I mean? Can we play with this guy going forward? We saw, you know, Andy Dalton draft in the second round. Was a starting quarterback for a while. The Raiders drafted Derek Carr in the second round, was a starting quarterback for nine years. Can he Jimmy Garoppolo, Listen, if you did a good enough job building up around the team, could be a solid starting quarterback. Can he be a player like that? Because if he can't, then the goal should be to lose and be in position to draft one. That's it for this week's Chasing Challenges. Remember, Microsoft's AI Solutions empower you to take bold steps and make informed decisions, sparking new ideas to help drive your business forward. With Microsoft as your trusted partner, you can navigate your journey with confidence, finding innovative solutions and reaching new possibilities. Visit Microsoft.com challengers to learn more. Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range of programming that goes beyond the game. From action packed live events to gripping behind the scenes documentaries to hard hitting investigative pieces and in depth profiles of athletes, coaches, teams, Vice Sports captures the raw, energy driven drama and passion that make sports truly unforgettable. Catch live events and other exclusive sports programs Only on Vice TV. Go to Vicetv.com to find your cable channel. AI is redefining what's possible for your business. Are you up for the challenge? Microsoft is helping leaders like you get AI ready faster with unified data and simplified platform management, unlocking up to 150% improved output across industries, leaders are turning to Microsoft AI tools and guidance to rise to the challenge. For the NBA, that means using AI powered insights to deliver more personalized fan experiences. For BMW, it means innovating their development process safely and securely. And for Lego House, it means creating new interactive experiences for people to explore. With Microsoft's trustworthy AI tools and guidance, you can drive greater impact. Business leaders Microsoft surveyed saw an average of 3.7 times ROI per $1 invested in generative AI. Whatever challenge comes next, let Microsoft help you keep pushing forward. For more details visit Microsoft.com challengers It's.

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[Maria]

The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. Hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores and brought to you by Velvet Buck, this podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best selling author and Meat Eater founder Stephen Rinella.

[Willie Colon]

I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here. And I'll say it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves.

[Maria]

So join me starting Tuesday, May 6, where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

[John Middlekoff]

Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Willie Colon]

On November 5, 2018 at 6:33am, a red Volkswagen Golf was found abandoned in a ditch out in Sleep Hole Valley. The driver's seat door was open. No traces of footsteps leaving the vehicle. No belongings were found except for a cassette tape. Lodged in the player on that tape were 10 vile no, no no no.

[John Middlekoff]

No no no no no no.

[Willie Colon]

Grotesque.

[John Middlekoff]

Oh my God. Oh my God.

[Willie Colon]

Horrific stories that to this day have been kept restricted from the public. Until now. You feeling this too? A horror anthology podcast. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[John Middlekoff]

Okay, let's do a little mailbag. At John Middlekopf is the Instagram. At John Middlecoff is the Instagram. Just actually watch the NBA Lottery. It's one of the shadiest things I've ever seen. I mean it really is that. Listen, I'm a Laker hater, but I've Never argued. They are the biggest NBA brand and honestly, it's not that close for them to get. Luka in the middle of the night will go down forever and always as the craziest, most insane thing we've ever seen. And then a couple months later, the Dallas mavericks, that had 18 ping pong balls out of a thousand, get the number one pick who's widely considered one of the best prospects. You know, top two or three over the course post LeBron. I mean, it's, listen, that's like taking your accountant out to dinner after he just saves you a bunch of money. Tonight was not about the Mavericks tonight and the last was about the Lakers and a league that, you know, in the height of Curry LeBron in like 2015, 2016. Over the course of the next seven, eight years, half the NBA's audience disappeared, yet they got a contract with the television partners that more than doubled it. It didn't even make sense to me. And, and listen, I understand the power of live rights, but it's like double. What? Well, what if we could promise you that The Lakers are LeBron's 40 years old. We know that. Who knows, maybe a year left to. Who knows? It's. He could retire. Probably not, but definitely a year at a high level. There's no guarantee we'll take care of them. We will have them good. And boom, Luke is on the Lakers and the Mavericks get the number one overall pick. You know, people, for a long time I think conspiracy theories were viewed as like crazy people. And listen, media people love like take your tin foil hat. Like we have a little bit of a Runway now that a lot of things that were called crazy and conspiracy theorists have been proven to be facts. And you can't tell me that tonight and going back to the trade with Nico and the Mavs is not one of the shadiest sports moments and stories we've ever seen. And tonight felt like some validation of like, yeah, it all kind of makes sense. And if you don't think the league was involved, like, I'm sorry, we don't have much in common. I mean, really, we don't. And I don't blame. If I'm a Laker fan, I don't even care. I got myself Luka need to get him eating a couple salads here and there. But like, we won. And if I'm a Mass fan, it's like, yeah, it sucks. I'd probably rather have Luka, but it's like we got taken care of, so it all worked out. And Adam Silver had His David Stern moment. No matter what, we will take care of the brand and keep our most important television product relevant. The NBA and I've talked about this over is not the NFL. It's. It's. Teams in smaller markets are never going to do the numbers of the Lakers, of the Knicks, of what Steph Curry has turned the warriors into. They cannot. Giannis on the Bucs. It's not the same as the Chiefs and Patrick Mahomes. Chiefs and Patrick Mahomes. 30 million people. I mean, that's what happens. The Bucks play, I don't know, the Pacers, people just aren't watching that. So I just think that Adam Silver had his David Stern moment. And it's one of the craziest, most obvious, corrupt things we've ever seen in my entire life. You call me Middlekoff, you're fucking insane. You're just saying that. There is no way you can convince me that the league was not involved with this trade. I honestly think a little bit less that Nico's some crazy person now. Like, it kind of all makes sense. It all makes sense. And if you wanted to argue that the NFL should involve itself in a lottery, that was riveting television. And now this storyline is. Everyone's going to be talking about it and the league doesn't care. What are you going to do? Sue him? I'm sure Danny Age wants to. I mean, he's been tanking for, like, three years. Look what just happened shows you, man, don't go work for the Utah Jazz and expect good things to happen to you if the league is going to be corrupt, because you're going to get screwed. Man, what a night in the NBA draft or lottery? Question for the mailbag. Which teams do you think have increased their ceiling and floor the most after the draft and free agency? I do think the team that stands out to me, and especially if you factor in the coach. I think there are two. And I think it's the Patriots and the Bears. I mean, just, we know how important coaching is in the NFL. And Eber flues, I mean, let's face it, was kind of an embarrassment as a head coach. I mean, he's a good defensive coach. Gerard Mayo was just completely over his head. And those guys got Mike Vrabel, who's proven to take, like, random Tennessee teams to win playoff games, I'm pretty sure. Were the Titans the number one seed a couple years ago? Tannehill melted down, but, yeah, the Titans is the number one overall seed. I mean, think about that. And the Bengals. Nice little upset on their way to the Super Bowl. But in Ben Johnson's, I would say the most highly touted offensive coordinator probably since Kyle. You know, people forget like Sean McVeigh was a controversial hire. People did not view Sean McVay when he was hired, myself included. I'm guilty. Like the way he became Kevin o' Connell when he was hired wasn't viewed like he's viewed now. You get Brian Dabel. A lot of hype behind Brian Dabel. So you could say maybe since Brian Dabel was hired with the Bills coming from Josh Allen. But I mean Ben Johnson's one of the most hyped offensive coordinators, I would just say of recent memory. So I think they've added a bunch of offensive linemen. They draft the tight end from Michigan. They already had good players on the team. So I think the Bears and the Bears roster is better than the Patriots. But I think when you look at the Patriots, you know, could they win eight, nine games and all of a sudden go from drafting back to back years really high to competing for a wild card spot in December? I don't think it's outrageous. Derek Carr According to ChatGPT, he missed only two games when he played for the Raiders. The concussion and injuries were all with the Saints. During his nine year tenure with the Raiders in Vegas and Oakland 14 to 22, he missed two games due to injury. Notably in 2016 he suffered a fractured leg. I remember that we talked about that yesterday, causing him to miss the regular season finale. In the playoff game in 17 he sustained a back fracture but missed just one game. Overall, Carl was remarkably durable. I think his career with the Raiders a little underrated. He took a lot of blame for the dysfunction going on and I'm not saying he didn't have bad games, but I would say he was the least of their worries most of the time. I can't speak to every game he played and the Saints, that obviously got a little weird. But big fan of the pot Question for the back I'm going on my first bachelor party for a few weeks in Fort Lauderdale. In a few weeks, not for a few weeks. For younger people these days a co ed bachelor party is popular and this one is coed. I'm going with my girlfriend but just wanted some tips for not overindulging on the three day bender and other courtesies you've seen over the years. For bachelor parties in general, picking up the tab, handling people that may be downers and may not want to go with the flow. Go Vikings. I got to be completely honest, maybe I truly sound like a 40 year old. Completely out of touch though. I just got married recently. I. When you say a co ed bachelor party, do you mean a bachelor and a bachelorette party together? Like, do you mean that the bachelor party and the bachelorette party are going on at the same time, which would be less crazy to me, which I would imagine has happened before in a similar venue, maybe for cost purposes? Or do you just mean that your buddy's bachelor party is coed, meaning you can bring your girlfriends or they just come. I've never heard of that. I've never heard of that. So I don't want to speak out of turn here because if it's a bachelor party, not a bachelorette party, and they just, it's co ed, that seems weird to me. Like, I think you can go to a bachelor party. Is it because they don't trust you guys? I gotta, I got a red flag. That situation, that's something I can't relate to. I mean, not that you. I just. That seems weird to me. Part of a bachelor party, whether you're going bar hopping, clubbing, golfing, boating, whatever you're doing. It's like you with the boys, you with, you know, your good friend, you're in the wedding, you're close friends with the guy, your college roommates, people from high school, whatever. Never heard of a co ed operation. I would say, I think the hard part with courtesies, it depends on ages. Like if you're all, I don't know how old you are, let's just, you know, once you get to a, you know, in your mid to late 30s, some people are going to be doing better than others. So when you go again non co ed, let's say you got 12, 15, 10 guys at a nice steakhouse, maybe people can kind of get crazy, start ordering seafood towers and a bunch of food. And then the bill comes and there might be one dude who's, I mean, making a ton of cash and a couple other guys that, you know, don't make any money. So that's where it can get kind of weird. I think. You got it. There's no really right or wrong way to kind of handle that. I think sometimes just communicate, like, what are we cool with spending? I only got a couple hundred bucks to spend that dinner. If this thing gets outrageous, I gotta be out. Some people are always gonna be up and down in terms of like being into stuff and being not into stuff. I would say anytime that, you know, if you have the means, can get, you know, it's pretty easy. Get the group around the beers. I do again, like, does that include their girlfriends? Now that's what. That's where I'm kind of taken back. I feel very old. If this is. If this is in. Because it's one thing if you got 10 dudes, it's like, hey, we get a. We get a round of beers. Can we get some cocktails? Can we get some shots? And it's like, does that 10 now turn into 20 because they got their ladies there. I also would imagine there are going to be some single guys there. Could be a little weird. I'm fascinated. I need to follow up on that. The co ed thing. Never heard of that. Hearing about Derek Carr retirement reminded me of when Colin used to have the opinion that he'd be a Hall of Famer one day. Seeing his car amassed an O and one playoff record, I think it's safe to say that was a horrible take. What has been your worst takes on a player? I mean, I thought Derek was like, clearly better than the group he was in of like Jared Goff, Dak Prescott, Kirk Cousins. Not that long ago, five, six years ago. And then over the course of his career, I don't think anyone would put him above. I don't know. I don't remember Colin saying he'd be a Hall of Famer, but I was. I would have been in agreement of speaking pretty highly of Derek after a couple years. I mean, I wasn't that big on Lamar Jackson coming out of college. I thought Jalen Hurts was a running back. I mean, I thought he couldn't throw. I'm an Oklahoma guy. The guy that hired me at Fresno State. I've said this a million times. Works there. I have watched their program very closely with Baker Mayfield to Kyler to Jalen. Might be a little out of order there. I went to the Texas Oklahoma game this year. I watched him lose by like 100. Like, I follow Oklahoma's program and obviously I. It was easy. People like Jalen, I just didn't think he could throw it well enough. I thought that pick was crazy. I thought that pick by Howie in the second round was insane. I think it's fair to say it's going to go down. I mean, it's. When you factor in how important that position is, I mean, that could define Howie Roseman's career. So that wouldn't be up there. That'd be really high. Is there an unexpected team next season that you can see picking in the top five? For example, we can all see where the Saints, the giants, the browns, etc. Would be picking in the top five. I think the team that I'm going to stay on is Miami. I think Miami is just a team to keep an eye on. I just can't get over this co ed bachelor parties. I think Kevin o' Connell is a great coach. I've watched Adrian Peterson carry the Vikings offense and a rotating door of failed quarterbacks all my life. Cousins was decent, but I've always been looking for a franchise quarterback drafted and with the team for a decade. Seeing o' Connell's offensive success with a handful of quarterbacks, I'm hoping jj, I know you want to see a playoff win with o' Connell, but is his true test going to be developing JJ and setting him up for success? If JJ fails, do you think people will blame o' Connell? Would like to hear your thoughts. Love the pod. My wife is from Davis, I'm from Chico. We met at Cal Poly and we lived in SLO for 10 years. We just moved to Denver and my commute requires your podcast. Go Mustangs, baby. I don't even know why I say that. I mean their teams are terrible, but cool. I enjoy my fellow Cal Poly brethren. Awesome to meet your wife there. That's cool. I would say I think sometimes who's going to fall on. We just got to see how this plays out. Like, I totally understand why they drafted them. Their team is going to be competitive. When you're the head coach, if things get weird, it always kind of falls on you. I do think Kevin o' Connell established himself with with Cousins and Sam Darnold that even if this next couple years gets weird, I think JJ will get blamed. Now it's easy to blame like Trey Lance. It turns out Trey Lance wasn't good. But the reason Kyle kind of could go like. Well, not totally because Purdy fell into his lap. So if JJ fails, which I don't think he will, if I was a betting man, is he going to be a star? I don't know if I'd go that way far, but I mean, more than likely I feel pretty confident that they'll get like some version of Alex Smith, right? That that's what I would bet on. Now obviously you'd want more and maybe it turns out to more. I'd be stunned if he's like Zach Wilson, right? Or Trey Lance. But listen, it's football. Not every guy's going to succeed. Some of these guys in this class are going to fail. Right There was Caleb Jaden Drake, Penix, Nicks, JJ well we all think Jaden's good. Everyone assumes Drake's good and Willie Colon kind of pushed back against that Caleb I think people are still very bullish on him. Bo Nix everyone's high on I'm rooting for Michael Penix but that organization even if four of them succeed two of them are going to fail. So yeah I think the quarterback would get blamed over Kevin Just heard someone write you saying Milro last season and compared to Lamar in their final season of college Jalen could be the next Lamar but to say his final season is comparable is pretty disrespectful to Lamar. Just look at the stats. Rushing yards, passing yards, passing touchdowns not even close. So let's look at the stats. They both played 13 games passing yards Lamar threw from 800 more completion percentage. Milro who's considered the thing with Lamar sneaky a little inaccurate in College was under 60% passing touchdowns 27 to 16 picks same thing 11 and 10 rushing yards. Lamar was 16 rushing touchdowns Jalen had 20. Yeah I mean listen I do think the way Jalen Milrose season was talked about his stats do look better than the way we discussed the season. I'm guilty of I was like yeah Jalen looked terrible this year and maybe I'm just basing it off of like a couple interactions beside the first half of Georgia he was elite first half of Georgia. I mean if he would have played like that the majority he would have won the Heisman and they they would have been in the playoffs but then you'd watch other games like what is going on here New offense. It was kind of weird. I mean when you think what I mean think about deboer with Penix it's just a lot different than than Jalen right. Pennix is a pocket quarterback. Jalen is much more of a run around Lamar type player. My question is regard to the quarterback position and what makes them an all time great. Bradshaw has four rings and Aikman has three but they are not considered a top 10 quarterback. But people will consider tan Dan Marino a top 10 quarterback. How much emphasis should be put on Super Bowl I would say Dan Terry's before my time. I was born in 84 never watched him play Dan I came into my own in the mid-90s. He was old. I would say this about Dan Marino is working in the league and working with a lot of players that played in the 80s and the 90s like Todd Bowles or Lewis Riddick or these guys that played defense. They were drafted in the. In the 80s. That said, when you played Dan Marino, his ball would come by your head like, you know, a sniper rifle. You'd be like, what is that? The way his peers discussed him tells you everything you need to know. I think Dan Marino's respect from his peers is as high as it gets, I would say. As someone that rooted against the Cowboys as a kid, I thought Troy Aikman was pretty good. Now I think Troy Aikman and Terry Bradshaw are discussed of like. Well, Terry Bradshaw played with the Steel Curtain, which. Not talking about the offense, talking about the defense. So one of the great defenses in the history of the sport. I mean, a defense that was literally nicknamed and won four Super Bowls. Now, he had good receivers. He had a good Franco Harris, Stallworth, Lynn Swan, some legendary throws. I think people consider him a really good player. But I think if you were drafting, you know, the guys that you discussed in the top 10, I think Marino is getting chosen over both those two guys. I think. I think Troy Aikman or Terry Bradshaw would tell you, you put Dan Marino in his prime on the teams we played in. He would have done what we did as well. Like, I don't think they would push back against that. Right. But think about the top 10 quarterbacks who, who, like, who are you kicking out? Brady, Peyton, Favre, Rogers, Elway, Marino, Young. You know, it's hard. It's hard for me to talk about guys I didn't watch. Right. So it's the 70s. I don't feel as comfortable. You know, I know people like Joe Namath is a name we throw out a lot. Namath is like a Ruthie and figure, though the difference is, like, Ruth hit however many. 715 home runs. Namath, I think through the same number of touchdowns as picks. I've always heard from older people that, you know, either watched or, you know, coming into their own. That name is a little overrated. Stallback is a highly, you know, highly respected guy. Kenny, Kenny the Snake. Who am I missing? You know, guys like Drew Brees. Then you got to look at the crew now. You know, Mahomes is, I'd say already a top 10 quarterback. Josh Allen and Lamar are going to go down as legends. You can be a great. Like, what if Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen both never win Super Bowls? I think we'd all agree, like, they are great players. AI is redefining what's possible for your business. Are you up for the challenge? Microsoft is helping leaders like you get AI ready faster with unified data and simplified platform management unlocking up to 150% improved output across industries. Leaders are turning to Microsoft AI tools and guidance to rise to the challenge. For the NBA, that means using AI powered insights to to deliver more personalized fan experiences. For BMW, it means innovating their development process safely and securely. And for Lego House, it means creating new interactive experiences for people to explore. With Microsoft's trustworthy AI tools and guidance, you can drive greater impact. Business leaders Microsoft surveyed saw an average of 3.7 times ROI per $1 invested in generative AI. Whatever challenge comes next, let Microsoft help you keep pushing forward. For more details, visit Microsoft.com challengers it's.

[MIDI Health Expert]

True that some things change as we get older. But if you're a woman over 40 and you're dealing with insomnia, brain fog, moodiness and weight gain, you don't have to accept it as just another part of aging. And with MITI health, you can get help and stop pushing through it alone. The experts at MITI understand that all these symptoms can be connected to the hormonal changes that happen around menopause, and MITI can help you feel more like yourself again. Many healthcare providers aren't trained to treat or even recognize menopause symptoms. MIDI clinicians are menopause experts. They're dedicated to providing safe, effective, FDA approved solutions for dozens of hormonal symptoms, not just hot flashes. Most importantly, they're covered by insurance 91% of midi patients get relief from symptoms within just two months. You deserve to feel great. Book your virtual Visit [e-mail] that's joinmidi.com.

[Maria]

The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. Hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores and brought to you by Velvet Buck, this podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best selling author and Meat Eater founder Stephen Rinella.

[Willie Colon]

I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll start, say when cave people were here. And I'll say it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves.

[Maria]

So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

[John Middlekoff]

Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Willie Colon]

On November 5, 2018 at 6:33am, a red Volkswagen Golf was found abandoned in a ditch out in Sleep Hole Valley. The driver's seat door was open. No traces of footsteps leaving the vehicle. No belongings were found, except for a cassette tape lodged in the player. On that tape were 10 vile.

[John Middlekoff]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Willie Colon]

Grotesque.

[John Middlekoff]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Willie Colon]

Horrific stories that to this day have been kept restricted from.

[John Middlekoff]

Feeling.

[Willie Colon]

This too. A horror anthology podcast. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[John Middlekoff]

How do you feel about how ironic it is that during the Manning cast last year Belichick scoffed when the camera panned to Taylor Swift? Now he has the girlfriend in the spotlight with the TV cameras will be looking for. Yeah, good call. I just think that this Belichick Jordan story is kind of getting exhausting now. Like, it's funny for a while now. It's like, give me a break. Like, what are we talking about? It does come up a lot. I mean, I was in this golf tournament. We talked a lot about it. I do understand if you were his kids, right? Like, if I was Belichick's son, seeing like his, one of Belichick's kids wives comment on an Instagram account, be like, dad, I don't give a shit if you leave me one penny. I don't care if you Warren Buffett, give it all charity, give it all to whatever fun, cancer research, help out the homeless, save, you know, dog kennels, whatever you got to do with your money, but don't give it to her. Like, this is insane. We have seen a lot of old rich men in your position, which I would imagine if they were in their prime, would regret. What you're about to do that to me is turned the conversation of like, what is she really after now? I don't recall. This is about the Bengals rookies sitting. Is this more emblematic of the Bengals as an organization or the players themselves? Based on the article that I read that the Bengals had lowballed them based on last year's contract. I think it's a little less crazy, though. The Bengals can't be the first organization to have a little bit of an impasse and it never happens. I will defend the kids on this. Whether it's sitting out rookie minicamp, which is crazy when you read that headline, whether it's none of these guys running the 40. This is not the player's idea. None of this is the player at 20, 21 years old. This is not your idea, I promise you. I feel very confident on that. This is all the agent telling them not to do it. This is an agent run decision making. I don't think any of these guys not running the 40 are doing it because they don't want to run the 40. I think it's all their representation telling them, going back to Nico transferring out of Tennessee. I think he did that because of his father. So you have all these people that have their hand in your cookie jar that are determining your decisions, which as a young man at 19, 20, 21 years old, like most people, aren't General Patton making their own decisions here. You're very impressionable human beings when you're young. So it's like you get this guy that's a 50 year old agent giving you advice, you're going to listen to them. Some of this nil stuff with your dad or your uncle, you're just going to listen to them whether they're right or wrong. I thought Cam Newton summed it up a while back. Well, it's like you got to be very careful who you take advice from. Be. Be fucking careful. I think a lot of these guys are getting advice that like, bro, you get an insurance policy. We're not tackling here. Does it get you off on the wrong foot? And I understand it's just business, but are you doing, is this your decision or is this, you know, your agent that lives in Newport beach? After watching Willie Colon's interview, I checked out some of the 08 Steelers highlights, and that defense was insane. You got to see Ryan Clark absolutely destroy Wes Welker. It's one of the biggest hits I've ever seen. I'm shocked that he, that he actually got up. They called a flag on the play, but just knowing that you had to go over the middle against that defense must have been terrifying. With guys like James Harrison and Troy Palomalo, do you think modern NFL teams could even hang with that roster? And if so, which team today could actually compete against that kind of roster? Well, if you think about like in the 2000s and the 90s, and I would even say up through like 14, 15, CTE kind of came in and then the league changed the rules. Because even up until like when I got out of the NFL and started working in radio, the 49ers in Seattle would leave a player at least once every other game or once a month, send them to the hospital. So you had these safeties that if you came across the middle, there was no flag. They were going to Rock you into oblivion. There was no such thing as a defenseless player. If you were on the field, you were just a football player. And. And I just think that it's not even possible to compare because the Steelers, just like the Ravens, the Bengals, built these teams that would destroy you. The Seattle with Cam Chancellor and Earl Thomas. The 49ers with Dante Hitner and Goldson. I mean, and Bowman and Wilson. These fucking people would get rocked. You're not really able to play like that. I mentioned this the other day on the mailbag that I get asked a lot in Arizona about Scatterboo, and they're like, how's Scatterboo gonna play like he played? I'm like, well, because he's not running over, you know, Ray Lewis is not sitting there in the hole. Lavon Kirkland and Kevin Green and Ken Norton Jr. Like, these guys don't play in the league. The linebackers, like, Fred Warner is a very violent, powerful linebacker. He's not exactly Mr. Take on Offensive lineman. Meet Mike Alstott and Lorenzo Neal in the whole type of player. Like, so the style of the sport is skinnier. Faster guys. It's a space and speed game. So those guys, if they played by their rules. One, if you allowed big hitting in the league, a lot of safeties would destroy people in the game would be a lot more violent because at their core, a lot of safeties, like if you got. If you let big hits like hu. Funga, who Funga wants to. C.J. gardner, Johnson, like these. These guys want to rock your. They just. You're not really allowed to. So I. It just depends, like, the rules. If you allowed those teams to play by those rules, they would have an advantage because they're comfortable doing that. You're just not allowed to play like that anymore. So it's hard to do like an apples to apples comparison. It really. It's like a different sport. Mailbag question. I've heard you and many of your contemporaries wonder who my contemporaries are prop up Herbert. For what it's worth, I was high on him, but after six years in the league, it's actually five. But I hear what you're saying. Two playoff appearances and two horrible showings, including one historic collapse. At what point does somebody's talent in draft pedigree become a little overrated? I feel like most people right now would take Herbert over. Hurts to start a franchise based on talent. But look at Hertz production in the playoffs. How could you realistically take Herbert? I think sometimes it's hard. We just Use the Marino, Aikman, Bradshaw example. Google Marino's teams. Like they just weren't as good. I mean Troy Aikman played on some of the best teams in league history. Steve Young, when he took over for Joe Montana, they had backups that would have started at every team in the NFL, including himself. So like the league, you know, some of these teams, it's not, it's not fair fight. This isn't, not everything's equal here. And I think the Eagles are a good example of like he plays on a pretty unreal team. So you use this example. He's been in the league five years. For four of those years he had Anthony Lynn and Brandon Staley as his head coach. This year he had a real head coach and still didn't have that much talent on his best receivers. Lad McCunkey and he threw 23 touchdowns and I think he only threw like three or four interceptions and they won 11 games. Awful in the playoffs. If you want to argue that Jalen's a bright lights, bigger, big time player more than Herbert, I can't argue with you. And the facts are that's true right now. But I've seen one year one of Herbert with a real coach and he had a lot of success. Bad playoff game, but a ton of success. Jalen Hurts got drafted into a well run organization. I think we all consider Howie, if he's not the best GM, one of the best GMs in the league they have had since Jalen has been there, one of the best rosters. And for two of his three years, of the two super bowl years he had Shane Steichen who immediately became a head coach. And then this year Kellen Moore who immediately became a head coach. Now are those guys good head coaches? Got no clue. They're good offensive coordinators. So like I think sometimes we talk about this and it's sports, it's fun argument, but it's not basketball, right? Like If I get LeBron James or Steph Curry in his prime, it's not going to be that hard to put random guys around him and just be really competitive, right? And more often than not, if I get him one all Star, we're going to be cooking with gas. Look at Jokic. Jokic has never played with an NBA All Star ever in his career. How many Pro Bowlers did Jalen play with this year? How many Pro Bowlers did skill guys? Saquon, best running back in the league. A.J. brown, one of the best wide receivers in the league. I mean Devonte's got To be. I mean, top three, number two wide receiver in the league. Goddard's really good tight end. Elite offensive line. Probably the best tackle combination. Dickerson and Jurgens. Becton just got money as a free agent. Best O line coach. And again, I've come around on Jalen. I respect the shit out of him, but like, it's. It's hard to just compare the situation now. Give. Let's give him two more years, Herbert. With. With and see how it looks with Jim Harbaugh a real organization. Because now the Chargers feel like they're a real organization. Do you think Burrow gets enough respect? Allen, Lamar are combined.03 against Mahomes in the AFC Championships and Burrow is 1 and 1. Burrow has better wide receivers, but Allen and Jackson have better overall rosters, coaches and front offices. Still, I think if you give Mahomes true serum, he'd say Burrow scares him more in an AFC championship game than the other two. Yet Allen and Jackson get mentioned more as Mahomes rivals in the AFC by the media. Curious what your take is on the pot. I know for a fact the Chiefs respect level for Josh Allen could not be any higher. They view Josh Allen as an absolute mother. You know what to go up against. And while they didn't play this version of Lamar, who definitely, you know, last year, the Lamar game in the. In the AFC championship game was embarrassing. There is no way about it. Score 10 points with an elite defense, you hold them to 17 points. You have to win that game. The turnovers this year kind of suck, but he played really well in the second half. Like, that version of Lamar can beat anybody. And if Andrews holds on to the balls, they would have a chance against the Chiefs in the next round. But those guys, like, I think all three go together, you know, I think. And I'm with you. Burrow gets dinged because of the place in which he plays a little weird. I mean, he just, he plays in just a chaotic environment. And the Bengals are very, very lucky to have him because if they just had like an average quarterback with the roster in which they had and the coaching staff, they had like you gave them like a Dak Prescott at Kirk Cousins, I don't think they'd win. Sniff seven, six wins, they'd be terrible. Jamar Chase would be screaming, get me the hell out. I think all three, you know, Mahomes, his resumes, I mean, borderline unprecedented to start a career. The other three guys are just. They're all timers. And if Lamar can just not calm down A little bit in the playoffs. I mean listen, I'm biased. I had 5k on them to beat the Chiefs and I fucking have known Andy and Veech for a long time. I bet against him and I can't unsee that. I can't. I also took the Bills against the Chiefs in that AFC championship this year. Hard for me to unsee that one. So I hear you. So Burrow's the only guy that beat him and Burrow easily could have won the Super Bowl. Lifelong Bucks fan, I consider the Monte Kiffin defense top five all time if not top three. Barber, Brooks, Lynch, Rice, Sapp. Their stats are crazy. Am I just biased? Also why is the fullback not a thing anymore? Mike Allstott is my all time favorite player and is an all time and in a time of the tush push seems like it would work. All Stott was guaranteed half a yard player. I would say in my. I can't speak to the really the 80s and the 90s or excuse me the 70s and the 80s. I think if you look at the totality of the league like a historian. If I got Steve Sable, God rest his soul, he tell you you'd be hard pressed to not have the Steelers really, really high of the 70s. I think the 85 Bears, it's like could this guy make the 27 Yankees right? That's, that's the way the. That that lineup like Ruth and Garrick is the way that people talk about defense. The 85 bears to me is the bar. Then I think there are a lot of teams just in the mix right modern day that I've seen. I would say the Ravens of 2000, whatever you want to consider that best defense of Tampa, I mean they picked off rich gain and five times the Super Bowl. Now granted Gruden knew the plays. The Steelers defenses with Coward Tomlin were pretty, pretty unreal. I think the Seattle defense with. With Pete Carroll for four straight years was the number one scoring defense. You know if Richard Sherman was sitting right here, he'd throw their hat. They were good. I saw them live a bunch. I mean they had inside pass rushers, outside pass rushers, linebacking core was unreal. All the DBs were good. Pete Carroll one of the great defensive minds in league history. I think some of those Patriot. I mean there's. They're just in the short list of just they're a great defense. I think most people would just say the best defense of all time, 85 bears. And then from there I think we argue but. And I think Tampa's in the argument, whether they're second, whether they're fourth, whether fifth, but they're in the argument. But I think pretty clearly it's like who's the best NBA player of all time? Michael Jordan. You Want to argue 2 through 8? Let's argue. But most people ain't budging, you know. Remove Twitter for LeBron James starts with Michael Jordan. Just like the Bears 85 Bears, they don't have an argument for the next three or four spots. Appreciate everyone listening. Talk to you guys soon.

[Willie Colon]

The volume.

[John Middlekoff]

AI is redefining what's possible for your business. With more unique challenges to solve and and higher stakes than ever, Microsoft helps you stay ahead. Our trustworthy AI tools and guidance can empower leaders like you to drive greater impact. And with Azure's simplified platform management, we're helping businesses go further, faster, unlocking up to 150% improved output. Whatever challenge comes next, let Microsoft help you keep pushing forward. For more details, visit Microsoft.com challengers you know springtime means the sun is out. And that means we're all going outside. And that's where Travis Matthew has us covered with polos. Extremely comfortable shorts. Best in the business. New Age shoes. Can't recommend them enough. But it's not just during the daytime. What about night? You want to go to a restaurant, you want to go to a nice dinner, they have you covered with button ups. It doesn't get any more comfortable. Been rocking them for a while. But what about her? Oh yeah, they also have a women's line. We actually went to a birthday party the other day and Maria wore one of their dresses. Can't recommend them enough. It's effortless, elevated style made just for her. Head to travismathu.com and get 20% off your first order. Okay?

[Willie Colon]

Have you heard about this?

[John Middlekoff]

Last year, Degree changed the formula for their Cool Rush deodorant. Their fans rebelled and wanted the old SIM back. And Degree Listen, that doesn't happen often. They admitted that they effed up and are bringing the original Cool Rush scent back.

[Willie Colon]

And it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. There's a reason it's the number one men's antiperspirant. And it's back in Walmart, Target and other stores for under $4.

[John Middlekoff]

So try it and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local stores to try the OG Cool Rush for yourself.

[MIDI Health Expert]

It's true that some things change as we get older, but if you're a woman over 40 and you're dealing with insomnia brain fog, moodiness, and weight gain. You don't have to accept it as just another part of aging. And with MITI Health, you can get help and stop pushing through it alone. The experts at MITI understand that all these symptoms can be connected to the hormonal changes that happen around menopause. And MITI can help you feel more like yourself again. Many healthcare providers aren't trained to treat or even recognize menopause symptoms. MITI clinicians are menopause experts. They're dedicated to providing safe, effective, FDA approved solutions for dozens of hormonal symptoms, not just hot flashes. Most importantly, they're covered by insurance. 91% of midi patients get relief from symptoms within just two months. You deserve to feel great. Book your virtual visit [e-mail] that's join M I D I dot com.

[John Middlekoff]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.