Does Aaron Rodgers deserve MORE credit, what's going on in Cincy, JJ Watt or Aaron Donald

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd Episode: 3 & Out - Does Aaron Rodgers deserve MORE credit, what's going on in Cincy, JJ Watt or Aaron Donald
Release Date: June 13, 2025

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1. Dak Prescott vs. Tony Romo: Quarterback Comparison

Timestamps: 03:00 – 09:48

John Middlekauff opens the discussion by comparing Dak Prescott and Tony Romo, highlighting their career numbers and playoff performances. He remarks, “Romo had more arm talent, while Dak is more accurate and has better intangibles” (03:18).

Colin Cowherd adds, “Dak’s mobility has diminished post-injury, making him more of a pocket quarterback, similar to a less mobile Alex Smith” (06:10).

The conversation delves into their leadership qualities and team dynamics, with Cowherd asserting, “Both guys could throw you a bunch of touchdowns and you could win 12, 13 games, but come playoff time against another strong team, you might not have faith” (08:45).

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2. Aaron Rodgers: Media Treatment and Career Evaluation

Timestamps: 09:48 – 22:19

John Middlekauff expresses strong support for Aaron Rodgers, stating, “This dude is the best thrower of the football I’ve ever seen” (09:54). He criticizes the media's portrayal, saying, “Sports media made everything Rodgers ever did or said into an absolute massive deal” (14:30).

Colin Cowherd counters by comparing Rodgers to legends like Tom Brady and Michael Jordan, emphasizing that “when you win, no one can say shit” (09:49). They discuss Rodgers' peak years and the impact of his team’s performance on his legacy.

John Middlekauff argues that societal and media factors have unfairly tarnished Rodgers' reputation, mentioning his stance on immunization and personal growth practices like ayahuasca retreats. He concludes, “The media and society are allowed to judge him” (16:02).

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3. Cincinnati Bengals: Team Challenges and Management Issues

Timestamps: 25:07 – 42:42

John Middlekauff provides an in-depth analysis of the Bengals' current struggles, focusing on contract disputes and the fallout from recent player holdouts. He states, “The Bengals have kind of been embarrassed now” (30:15), highlighting the tensions between players like Shemar Stewart and the front office.

He discusses the implications of these disputes on team performance, noting, “Their defense sucked, and their top defensive linemen are at odds with the team over finances” (35:50). Middlekauff speculates on potential outcomes, including trades or renegotiations, and the impact on the team's future prospects.

Colin Cowherd and Middlekauff debate the leadership of head coach Zach Taylor, with Cowherd expressing doubts about Taylor’s ability to navigate these challenges effectively (40:00).

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4. J.J. Watt vs. Aaron Donald: Defensive Powerhouses

Timestamps: 48:52 – 67:03

John Middlekauff and Colin Cowherd engage in a spirited debate over who the better defensive player is: J.J. Watt or Aaron Donald. Middlekauff leans towards Watt, citing his versatility and multiple 20-sack seasons: “JJ is more versatile; he can line up at any position” (55:20).

Colin Cowherd counters by highlighting Donald’s relentless pass-rushing ability and dominance on the field, saying, “Aaron Donald is unstoppable in his prime” (60:45).

They conclude that while both players are exceptional, personal preference and specific team needs might dictate who is considered better. Middlekauff summarizes, “J.J. Watt in his prime is like a 10 out of 10” (67:00).

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Notable Quotes

• John Middlekauff: “Romo had more arm talent, while Dak is more accurate and has better intangibles.” (03:18)
• Colin Cowherd: “Dak’s mobility has diminished post-injury, making him more of a pocket quarterback.” (06:10)
• John Middlekauff: “This dude is the best thrower of the football I’ve ever seen.” (09:54)
• John Middlekauff: “Sports media made everything Rodgers ever did or said into an absolute massive deal.” (14:30)
• John Middlekauff: “The Bengals have kind of been embarrassed now.” (30:15)
• John Middlekauff: “JJ is more versatile; he can line up at any position.” (55:20)
• Colin Cowherd: “Aaron Donald is unstoppable in his prime.” (60:45)

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Conclusion

This episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd delves into significant NFL discussions, providing listeners with in-depth analyses on quarterback comparisons, player media treatment, team management issues in Cincinnati, and debates on defensive prowess between two of the league's top defenders. The hosts offer diverse perspectives, enriched with statistical insights and personal opinions, making it a valuable listen for both avid fans and casual followers.

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Note: Timestamps are indicative and correspond to the provided transcript segments.

Transcript

[Michelle Williams]

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[Jemele Hill]

I'm Jemele Hill, host of the sports and politics podcast Spolitics. On this week's episode I'm joined by all time great Hooper and basketball analyst Candace Parker who gives insight into her candid new book including why she waited two years into marriage to come out.

[Candace Parker]

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[Jemele Hill]

Make sure you listen to this episode of Spolitix on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Michelle Williams]

I also want to address the Tonys On a recent episode of Checking in with Michelle Williams I open up about feeling snubbed by the Tony Awards, do I? I was never mad. I was disappointed because I had high hopes to hear this and more on disappointment and protecting your peace. Listen to Checking in with Michelle Williams from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[John Middlekauff]

My goal is to really destigmatize mental health treatment and looking at it from a whole health perspective. Physical health and mental health can be intertwined.

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Listen to WebMD Health discovered on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[John Middlekauff]

Podcasts the volume what is going on everybody? How are we doing? John Middlecop 3Now podcast hopefully everyone is is doing well out there in the real world and enjoying life. NFL teams all over the country have broken for the summer. They are on now five or six week little break. Players obviously keep working out and staying in shape. Coaches probably hang out their family they don't see that much for during the season and have a few cocktails and hang out and today I thought you know what let's empty the mailbag at John Middlekopf Add John Middlekopf is the Instagram two Fs and I just answered a bunch of questions so we will attack that today. I think Sunday I'll record after the US Open a reaction on I'm not sure on the day but we will release the John Schneider the general manager of the Seattle Seahawks super bowl champion his interview next week sometimes keep you updated on that. Got some big news also with that involves coward that I'll Talk about next week. Kind of exciting. Be a little curve ball, be fun. Other than that. Yeah. If you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to three and out. We also got a YouTube channel. All of our content is up there as well. And yeah, you can find us. So make sure you subscribe to three and out Golf podcast also goes on there. Everything goes up on YouTube. And yeah, we got you covered. But first, you know, I got to tell you about my friends. My partner's in the official ticketing app of this podcast, Game Time. Best ticketing app I've ever used. Someone actually just forwarded me a video from the sphere and I was like, God, it just looks so awesome. It's not even that far away from me. It's a five hour drive. Our plane flight. I just, I gotta get there sometime this summer. Love, Kenny Chesney. I like I've said, I know people that have seen the dead, the Eagles, everyone that goes there loves it. 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It's one of those where you've had it forever and it just, it might be coming down the home stretch. Question for the mailbag cowboy fan. Naturally a topic that comes up is whether Dak or Romo was the better player. In terms of career numbers and playoff success, they seem to be very similar. Personally, I think Romo had more arm talent, while Dak is a more accurate and has better intangibles. I ultimately see both as the type of quarterback with whom a strong team around them can have you contending, such as Purdy Goff, Hertz, etc. What do you think? Love the show. Thanks for keeping us entertained. It's a good question. It'll be interesting to see the version of Dak Prescott that comes back after this, this hamstring injury. Is his mobility completely gone? Because I think there are different iterations of him as a player. I mean, early on when he was younger and they had some good teams, he was a pretty, I mean, he's never had a huge arm. I mean, like you said, I think Romo probably had a little more pop. But Dak was a really versatile player and I think that athleticism and me and Colin have talked about this like during the fall is his ability to run now after that ankle, I mean, shattered his ankle doesn't really exist. So he's a pocket quarterback. He's actually, I mean, it's going to sound crazy, but he's kind of like a less mobile Alex Smith now. Now when their team was good several years ago and he was really good in the playoffs, I thought they were going to be a major problem and then he just shit the bed. So, you know, Tony Romo had a little pizzazz to him. There was a little like, there was almost like a collegiate aspect to him. Favian, when I don't, I'm not comparing him to Brett Favre, but there was just an entertainment factor. Like had no clue what was going to happen. Maybe he was like a better playmaker, but he was hard to trust as well. It's a pretty good question. I think if your team was just awesome, you know, you could probably flip a coin because you're not going to feel great about either guy in the playoff game. So it's like, yeah, both guys could throw you a bunch of touchdowns and you could win 12, 13 games. But when, you know, January 15 comes and you're playing another 14 win team, you're not going to have faith. So that's where I think it's like, does it really even matter? Or you could argue they're very similar guys. I can't speak to Romo's intangibles, but I didn't view him. I guess I just viewed them as like equals in terms of like good guys, no issues. Yeah, I didn't know Romo was a bad intangible guy. Obviously Dak is thought of like a high level intangible guy. I assume Romo was too, but clearly, you know, Romo had the issue with Terrell Owens. I would say that aids pretty well on Romo side guys like him. I mean, that's there. I can see when you're Jerry, when you're the coaching staff, it's like everyone likes this guy. He's producing on the field. Like those type players are really, really hard to get get rid of. I mean, they really are. It's why they wouldn't have got rid of Romo if his back didn't fail him. And it's why they have shown zero idea or thought of pivoting off Dak. I want to break this into two parts. One, heard your podcast with Coward. I know Rogers has a bit has had a big fall from grace, but I feel like I'm going crazy. This dude is the best thrower of the football I've ever seen in my life. With Mahomes probably being second. The way the media and people on social media talk about this dude, I feel like it's absolutely crazy. I know he's underwhelmed in his career, but I know this team has failed him a lot. Saying this dude had a peak of less than 10 years to me is asinine. I always felt like he got hurt by the fact that he didn't have an NFL owner. That being said, this dude was amazing. Am I crazy for thinking the way we cover this guy is idiotic? He needs to stay out of the media and not make everything about him. But he's a first ballot hall of Famer and a living legend. Well, I mean, the last couple years have been a little weird. I mean, there's no way around that. I didn't agree with the way he was covered in 2020, 21. The immunization thing was, you know, let's face it, the media, politically, I mean, they all lean one way. Especially when it came to Covid. He was not. People internally in NFL front offices, NFL coaching staffs, and definitely in NFL locker rooms were not looking at him weird during that situation. So that situation happened. And that's where I felt like before he was just, I guess he was a little polarizing. But I feel like that's when it got took another step. And then, I mean, let's face it, when you start doing darkness retreats, like people are going to think you're weird and we're allowed to. And I'm all for doing whatever it takes to improve yourself, but when you're public about it and you tell people about it, people are going to judge you.

[Colin Cowherd]

They just are.

[John Middlekauff]

People talk shit about Tom Brady, but like him eating avocado ice cream and him doing all a bunch of weird stuff and making out with his kid. It works. He wins. When you win, no one can say shit. You know, Rogers, that last year in Green Bay didn't win. They didn't make the playoffs. Then he goes to the jets, and from his Achilles to last year, like, it didn't go well. So when you win, no one can say anything. Michael Jordan got drunk before games, gambled all the time, was an asshole. No one cares. Why? Because he beat the shit out of everybody on the court. Like, all that matters is winning. And that's the one thing Rogers, like, he gets compared. I mean, his era was Peyton and Tom. And obviously Tom is just kind of unassailable because he's got all the rings. Peyton took a lot of crap over his career, but he won. He went to four Super Bowls and won two of them. Now, you're right. I mean, it's not all Rogers fault. And he is a living legend. I mean, he's one of the greatest quarterbacks in the history of the league. But his. But his peak wasn't as long as you think because he didn't start those first three years of his career. So he just didn't. I'm pulling up his stat page right now. So he didn't become a starter till 08, which first year starting was pretty solid through 28 touchdowns, but let's say, like, became a really good player. 09, they go 11 and 5. He's throwing 30 touchdowns. So from 09 to basically, I mean, McCarthy gets fired in what, 18. Rogers did not have a good year in 18. He threw 25. Touch. He didn't. He doesn't throw many picks, but that was always like a coward knock on him. Part of the picks is like, yeah, I'm not willing to make throws that other guys like Mahomes, Josh Allen and Lamar will attempt sometimes. So I'm like, am I cooking the books on my number? No one's calling him Enron or Bernie Madoff here, but there's a little manipulation. And so his career.09, he did break his collarbone in the one year McCarthy got fired. Kind of at a down year. Yeah, I mean, his peak was probably 12, 13 years. It's not all his fault. Like, he didn't start right away, but, you know, his peak is not as long as Manning and Brady's. And those are Drew Brees, those are his peers, his contemporaries. First ballot hall of Famer, probably the greatest player in the history of the Packers. Like, no one's arguing that, but when you start doing, you know, documentaries about. Listen, I'm not anti drugs, that help you out mentally. But most humans are not doing ayahuasca. So you start talking about doing fucking ayahuasca in the jungle next to the Jaguars and the monkeys, you know, I mean, people are gonna make fun of you. So I think there's two different sectors here. I think there's the media, who takes themselves way too seriously. That if you've seen like the polling, most human beings don't give a shit what they think about. Right. So their hatred toward Rogers, you know, guys like Florio and stuff, is very politically driven. Most fans of football, I will include myself, are much more, I would say, sarcastic in the way that they talk about Rogers. It's not as serious, but it's also like, you don't get to just smoke peyote. Peyote in a desert and think, like, we can't make a little fun of you. So, like, it's. He gets made fun of, but Tom Brady gets made fun of. Part of being like a super famous guy is people talk about you. I mean, it's. It's just. It happens, you know, it's like. I don't know what else to say. Sports media made everything Rogers ever did or said into an absolute massive deal. Do you think if Aaron just kind of rolled under the radar and didn't say much, he'd be looked at like a top five quarterback all time? I think a lot of talking heads play revisionist history and forget the four MVPs. Yeah. I mean, I'm telling you, I think a huge, huge pivot point for Aaron was the immunization comment where the media was like. I just think that's when they really turned on him. They really did. And they, you know, he. Because he used that word where guys like cousins or. I mean, there was a lot of guys in the NFL that didn't get it. Hell, I knew coaches that refused to get. I mean, it was not like he was not alone, Right. I remember the Golden State Warriors. There was a mandate in San Francisco for Andrew Wiggins to be able to play home games. If he didn't get it, he wasn't going to be allowed to play. But you could be a road player and play the warriors, and the mandate didn't count. So he didn't want to get it. Obviously, looking back, a healthy guy in his 20s definitely did not need it, had no choice, right?

[Colin Cowherd]

So, like, it was a very.

[John Middlekauff]

It's a very controversial issue in the locker rooms. Why? These guys are young, the peak of health, yet they're being forced to do something most of them did not want to do. They're not alone. A lot of society was that way as well. And the media was all on the other side. Do it or else we will fucking destroy you. So then when that happens, Aaron then has this huge grudge against them. At least this is my take on it. And then he goes like overboard on all this other stuff, which again, I think most people are making fun of him about the ayahuasca, the darkness retreats. I mean, if you do a darkness retreat, even if you tell me there are a lot of benefits, like people are going to make fun of you. I'm not talking about some dude that went to Big J school that's 60 years old, overweight, that writes for the local paper. I'm just talking about me, you, and normal human beings. If one of my friends on a group text said, hey, in two weeks I'm headed to Ecuador and I'm just gonna be in a hut and there's gonna be no light. And they call this thing a darkness retreat. And for three days they give you some water, they give you some protein, and it's just no AirPods, no phone, just gonna be me, my thoughts and the jungle air. You think you'd be like, oh, yeah, totally. Sweet idea. That'd be fun as fuck.

[Colin Cowherd]

Awesome.

[John Middlekauff]

Let me know how it goes. You think we'd go like, what are you talking about? As a proud Virginia Tech graduate, born and raised in the Commonwealth, I grew up in the glory days of Beamer, when Beamer ball and stars like Michael Vick, d' Angelo hall and Cam Chancellor electrified Lane Stadium and put the Hokies on the national stage, culminating in the 99 national championship game. Since Beamer's retirement in 15, Virginia Tech has struggled to rise above the mediocrity. Just inconsistent seasons under Fuente and now Brent Fry. We got absolutely ran through in state recruiting and kids do not view Virginia Tech as it once was in state. Meanwhile, Deion Sanders in Colorado has leveraged his superstar status and the Dion Effect to attract top talent through the transfer portal. Like Hunter Shador Sanders and. And the number one offensive tackle in the class last year, given Michael Vick's recent appointment as the head coach at Norfolk State. Question for the pod. Is the real Dion Effect real? Do you feel as a program that basically I cut off the question, but I remember taking a screenshot of it, like, do you need a big name, famous guy in this modern day landscape? The reason Deion Sanders one. I mean, he had a unique relationship with Travis Hunter as a kid. But the ot, the number one player. You are landing players because of money. So if you have a lot of money and you could pay guys the last couple years, you could land big recruits. The reason BYU has the number one basketball player is because they paid him a lot of cash. The reason Michigan got this quarterback last year is because Larry Ellison and crew gave him, like, 12 to 15 million dollars guaranteed. That's why Nico ended up at Tennessee out of high school. They gave him $8 million guaranteed over four years. Like, it's not. This isn't about. Like, can you. Can you resonate with my parents at the dinner table while.

[Colin Cowherd]

While we're.

[John Middlekauff]

While we're eating appetizers, no one gives a fuck. I'm not saying that you can't. Like, there can't be some human interaction. But over the last several years, if I'm offering you $100,000 and another team's offering you $800,000, you're going to the team that is offering you way more money. It's all been about the money, 100%, period, point blank, end of story. It hasn't been about the history of the program or Frank Beamer and how great their special teams were. And, you know, Michael Vick went here in 1999. It's 2025. Can you get me a Range Rover or. Or Denali? Because if you can't, then Nebraska can. See ya. Adios. I mean, that's. That's just. That's really what it's become. I mean, I think we overthink. When I hear people talking about recruiting or even the last couple years when, like, so and so was the National Recruiter of the Year, it's like, give me a. I've always thought, you know, football scoop does a good job. Like, it's a website that a lot of coaches look at. They're just pretty dialed in with college football. And they always have awards at the end of the year. Like national and rivals did, too. Like National Recruiter of the Year. It's like, guys, the best recruiters, usually at the biggest schools, handing out brown bags. This is before nil. They're not just recruiting because they have a good personality. Like, Saban has a big personality. But I got news for you. Alabama was paying premiums. You know, it's funny. Everyone always looked at John Calipari like he's just buying players. Like Coach K wasn't. What the fuck are we talking about? Nothing ever bothered me more than the disingenuous nature of some people that covered college football pretending that in basketball and football people were not getting paid. I'm not against it, never have been, but when people pretended like this is Jay Billis always used to drive me nuts. It's like, Jay, your school is paying a premium for all these players. Good. Rightfully so. The NBA Finals are here and this.

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Obviously everyone's picking the Thunder. Not gonna lie. Don't hate dabbling a little on the Pacers 5 to 1 to win the series.

[John Middlekauff]

The NBA Finals, they just destroy the one seed. The Cavs work the Knicks. I think people are sleeping on the Pacers a little bit. I get the Thunder are good, but.

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[Jemele Hill]

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[Candace Parker]

Like when I close my eyes at night, every night, I was like I need to find my prince charming. Like it was never a princess. Like that never entered into my mind. But you know, as I learned, sometimes life gives you things wrapped in a package that you didn't expect it. And that was just, you know. And honestly, it took me a long time to be okay with myself.

[Jemele Hill]

Make sure to listen to this week's episode of spolitics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[John Middlekauff]

I read the comments about JJ in the Take you and Colin hat. While I don't necessarily disagree, most of the comment sections did. They had some good points. One of them was that if the Vikings are so close to a championship roster, why would they not sign Sam? You and Collins said they wanted to. Also, you said Sam or JJ never threw the ball at Michigan, and while that is statistically true, it's completely taken out of context. They ran the ball in first and second on the ground and oftentimes JJ would bail them out on third and long. Harbaugh only had Andrew Luck throw the ball four times more per game and the team didn't have the offensive line that Michigan did. Also, JJ won the Natty as a Gunslinger and IGM Academy and then transferred to Michigan. Given those points, what is your take? Comparing JJ McCarthy to Andrew Locke is pretty laughable. Andrew Locke would have been the number one pick in every draft for the last 25 years. Trying to think even a player that maybe Stafford because he had a bigger arm would have been the argument. But I still would imagine Luck would have gone number one over Stafford. J.J. mcCarthy was 1, 2, 3 the fifth quarterback taken in his own class. The fifth quarterback taking his own class. He's not nearly the prospect of guys in his own class, so it's like I hope he bailed them out. I mean the guy was a top 15 pick. Point is, if they wanted to resign, Sam, they weren't going to give a guy $100 million contract. I don't blame them after those last two weeks. But JJ McCarthy is a great unknown. Could he be good? Of course he could. Could it not go well? 100%. Are there similarities to Michigan? Yes, there are. But the difference is when JJ was at Michigan, their coach called a lot of run plays. Kevin o' Connell likes to pass the ball. That's what he does. He wants to throw the ball. So if JJ can throw the ball, they'll be okay. If he can't, they're going to have issues. Great show. Listening to your take on the Pittsburgh and Rogers brings me back to everyone always saying the teams that the worst place to be is in the middle. Does bringing him in make sense in the long term plan? Wouldn't it be better to roll with a second tier quarterback and even trade TJ and rebuild? Especially when their quarterback class is building up to be good Starting Mason Rudolph would probably get you in the top five or 10 picks. They're just not going to do it. So I think when you look at the situation is which I respect. You know, I saw Utah hire Danny Ainge's son to be their GM and one of the things he said in the press conference is like, we're not going to be tanking anymore. Imagine even having to say that. Yeah, we're not going to tank anymore. I mean that's obviously that's a different sport, but I mean it's, it's ingrained in the culture in basketball is tanking and football, it is just not only not tolerated. Coaches and players refuse to do it because at any moment as a player you can be cut. And football, at any moment you can get fired. Right. Regardless how many years you have left. So everyone tries and the nature of the sport, you got to try. So everyone's trying. But you know, the Cleveland Browns are thinking big picture with some of their moves. The Steelers are obsessed on a yearly basis, which for one hand you have to respect. But over the course of the last like six, seven years, like guys, we've kind of stalled out here. We're a well run organization, we're never going to suck. But when we look at the Bills, when we look at the Ravens, who aren't even on the level, those two teams cannot beat the Chiefs when it matters. We can't sniff those two teams, let alone the Chiefs. So what are we going to do? And the answer is like we're just going to keep trying to win nine, 10 games, which is what they're going to do. And your idea of like, should they trade TJ and start? They're never going to do that. They're just never going to do that. So you know, they're dependent on a 41 year old player who doesn't move like he used to. As someone said earlier, he still throws the ball. Well, I've always argued like Dan Marino. I bet if you just gave him a football and went to a park right now and you just watched him throw like a 20 yard spiral, you'd be like, damn, Marino can sling that pill. Aaron Rodgers can be able to throw the ball till he's 70 years old, but what made him a great player was the ad lib, the instincts, the movement, right? He can make a great throw, throw from the pocket, but like he was the total package. And that's not quite the same now. I think Arthur Smith said this yesterday, like we didn't trade for DK and sign Aaron to run the wing table. So they're going to push the ball down the field. But where they need to have success and this is what Matt LaFleur did when he got the Green Bay job is they ran the ball and slowed down the game. So if you get this kid they drafted from Iowa, I think he's going to be a beast. Hand him the ball. Hand Jalen Warren the bar ball. Utilize your tight ends. They got multiple tight ends. I watched Rogers press conference yesterday. He was like the Washington kid, the dude from Georgia, he's like, he reminds me of Mercedes Lewis. They got Friarmouth. So they got two tight ends, they got a couple running backs and just slow down the game and play big time defense. They're going to give T.J. watt an extension. I'm sure they just drafted the dude in the first round to play defensive tackle. They got Minka, Fitzpatrick and kind of get back to some of their roots. So I would expect, you know, the Steelers to kind of look like an old school team and if they're going to have success, that's what they're going to have to do a lot. Like when Arthur Smith was with Mike Vrabel in Tennessee. Not sure if you know this, but is Shemar Stewart technically a free agent or is he a Bengals player for a certain length of time even if he doesn't sign the contract? I'm glad you brought this up because I wanted to talk about Shemark Stewart to Answer your question. They own his rights now. I think technically if he didn't sign the contract over the course of the year, he could re enter the draft in 2026, but he would have to sit out the entire season, which, you know, I think he was a fringe going into the draft. Top 15, top 20 pick. The Bengals took him right around, what, 17 with not playing a year, where would he get drafted? And he would have to sit out and obviously wouldn't make any money this season. It would be a complicated situation. I would expect that was a betting man that this will get worked out. But this situation has kind of jumped the shark and I don't remember, you know, before 2011 and they redid the CBA. There was just like a, there was a lot of back and forth with the contract negotiations, right? And typically it was these jamarcus Russell and he's had these huge holdouts because you were talking a astronomical amount of money that's kind of ended. Every once in a while you get some back and forth, but for the most part you get these scenarios where it's like, this is the deal, just sign it. And guys just sign it. Because that's just, it's like slotted in and this situation for him to say kind of shit on the Bengals. Also bring up Trey Hendrickson and then leave before the camp ended. You're like, this has become a problem. And speaking of problems, let's welcome you to chasing challenges brought to you by Microsoft. In the NFL, just like in the business world, overcoming obstacles is the key to success. Microsoft empowers business decision makers with AI solutions, simplified cloud and data management, and trustworthy, responsible technology to turn challenges into opportunities. In this segment, we will explore some of the biggest challenges being faced in the NFL and how they can be overcome. Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise to say, bring it on. This week we're discussing the challenge faced by the Cincinnati Bengals. I think we've talked about this a couple times. Eventually I just thought like, he's going to eventually sign. This will go away. And then the kid was like, this is ridiculous. I'm out of here. So as Shane, one of our producers here at the volume and for a show texted me that this guy just left while the guy that he was replaced or drafted to replace is also holding out. So safe to say the Bengals got some issues and I saw their center was speaking to the media like, listen, hopefully this can get worked out. There's no animosity in the locker room. This is a bizarre organization and they have had a lot of issues over the years. I mean, they once had a star quarterback to just say, I quit. Not like, I'm retiring like Barry Sanders or Calvin Johnson or Patrick Willis. Like, yeah, my body's given up on me. I don't want to play anymore. I'm retiring early. It's like, I quit. I. Under no circumstances can I ever play for you again. I still want to play football, but if I got to play football for you guys, I'd rather just sit at home with my family. I'm not sure what happens here because the Bengals have kind of been embarrassed now. And one thing they've shown, and I think anyone that knows an old school, you know, I would say someone with the kind of an archaic mindset, it's hard for them to pivot. And the Bengals have proven that they've been stubborn over the years in general. And now this rookie who's never played a snap in the NFL is putting them on blast. It's one thing to go through a contract dispute and have issues. It happens. It's another thing to make it this public. And now that he's left camp, I actually think Mike Brown and the front office might dig in more. So it's like both people. It's like, it's like a road rage situation where you're both mad at each other and you pull up to each other, next to each other at the stoplights and you're both flipping each other off. Who's going to put their hand down first? I don't know. And clearly Shemar Stewart and his agent and the way that they're going over this are not happy. I mean, the Bengals cannot be thrilled with this situation. And this is what we talk about all the time. Zach Taylor being as a head coach, his job is to massage all of this because eventually he's going to need Trey Hendrickson, he's going to need Shemar Stewart. I mean, a huge part of the reason this team, with Joe Borrow having an MVP type season, Ja' Mar Chase having one of the best seasons I've ever seen from a wide receiver miss the playoffs was because their defense sucked. And their two, in theory, best defensive linemen are just like at odds with the team over finances in one, we don't even know if he can play yet. It's like, is she, Mark Stewart good? I don't know. I know Trey is. But Trey clearly is not happy. And this is one of those situations that, you know, the Bengals are truly, there's a small list of these teams still, but kind of a mom and pop shop. And it's not Zach Taylor is not the one in charge of the finances. Honestly, he has no pull in a situation like this. So luckily they're going to summer break. But sometimes everyone take a deep breath. But training camp's not that far away. I mean, is Shemar Stewart just not going to show up? Are they not going to give in? And if they do give in, what was the whole point of this to begin with? And while dealing with the situation, are they ever. What are they going to do with Trey? Are they going to pull the trigger and trade for him or trade him to someone else? Would someone be willing to trade for him? Because not only would you have to give them probably a first round pick, you'd have to give Trey probably $100 million. So it's not like you're getting him cheap. So it's a complicated situation. And Zach Taylor, who most people think average coach, who benefits from having Joe Burrow and some sweet offensive players, I don't think anyone's, you know, confusing him with an Andy Reid with a Sean Payton. But this is a situation that wouldn't be easy for anyone. That's it for this week's chasing challenges. Remember, Microsoft's AI solutions empower you to take bold steps and make informed decisions, sparking new ideas to help drive your business forward. With Microsoft as your trusted partner, you can navigate your journey with confidence, finding innovative solutions and reaching new possibilities. Visit Microsoft.com challengers to learn more. Cody, Longtime listener As a lifelong Bucs fan, it's nice to finally see some national buzz around the team. It feels to me that Jason Light has built a highly a high quality culture and we've become a well run organization. I wanted to get your thoughts on that and the ceiling you believe this 25 team has with Baker at the helm of a stacked offense complemented with a revamped defense. Redick, Benjamin, Morrison, some other guys spy tech mentioned this because I had seen the stat and I didn't want to butcher it and it was 44 of the 53 man roster in 2024 going into week one was either drafted or an undrafted free agent. So a guy they had signed out of college on the roster which is insane. I mean it really is and everyone you'll hear when we play the John Schneider interview, I would say that Jason Light, Colin I think said this on one of our shows over the last several months is that Steve Keim, who longtime GM of the Cardinals, Jason Light Worked for him for a minute and says, like the best scout I've ever been around. Jason Light's elite at his job. Like he's an elite evaluator of talent. And I think over time, you know, anyone who's in charge has a better idea of how to make a team. Right? Because ultimately as a gm, your exercise is a team building, you know, puzzle, right? That's what. It's not just accumulating the best possible players, Right. It also has to be the right type people that fit in the locker room. And I think over time, Jason Light has just, I would say somewhat perfected it. Now, the quarterback position is a huge curveball for any organization. The Steelers know what they're doing, right, for the most part when they're evaluating players. But when you don't have the quarterback, you're kind of screwed. And I don't want to say they got lucky because they signed the guy, but they signed Baker Mayfield $4 million and a couple years later, I think we'd all agree he's a top, I don't know, somewhere between 7 to 12 range. I mean he's definitely one of the better quarterbacks in the league and they have him on a team friendly deal. So that really changed it for them as they transitioned from Tom. Because one thing it was evident when Tom got there is like, God, they got a lot of good players, you know, from Worfs, Vita Vea, obviously Mike Evans, Winfield, Levante, Davis, like good players at every position. And then all of a sudden it's like they get the quarterback right and they win the division every year. Mailbag question. I was reading an article regarding the finals, the NBA finals that is being down 25% from last season. Talk to my dad and some other friends. They all watch the games. I'm sure you watched and willing to bet most of your listeners turned in at some point. My opinion is most fans of the sport will tune in regardless who is actually playing in the game. Yet ratings are down, in your opinion.

[Colin Cowherd]

Where is the gap?

[John Middlekauff]

Is it really driven by large markets and big brands? Or could it be a star player themselves Are the biggest drivers to get people in front of the tv? I think markets. I saw Adam Silver had a quote. He was on one of the Fox Sports one shows, I think leading into the Finals and said, you know, he was, he's very jealous of the NFL, how unmarket dependent they are, right? The Chiefs are the biggest brand in the NFL, right. No longer the Cowboys and obviously when the 49ers, the Giants, some of these teams are really good in the biggest markets. If Chicago was a playoff team every year, they would do huge ratings. But you can have the Kansas City Chiefs, you can have the Green Bay packers, you can have the Pittsburgh Steelers. Carrier sport if they're good. Basketball historically is pretty dependent on two things. Markets and superstar players. I mean, the most famous player of my life is Michael Jordan and Kobe. Shaq to LeBron to Steph. I mean, these are some of the biggest stars of my life, any sport. And I just. That's this Finals lacks that. So you factor in the markets which are smaller, and then the star power. I'm a good example. I don't have any money on this series. I wish. I just thought The Pacers being 5 to 1 felt a little crazy. It's like OKC is not your typical 68 win team. I was texting with a buddy the other day. I said, obviously this team's really talented and they got some young players. And you know, Shea is the MVP of the league, but he's 25, 26 years old. Most of their better players, beside Caruso, are young. And if they played the other elite teams, let's just say the last 15, 20 years, I think they would lose to every single one of them. The warriors teams with Durant and without Durant would beat them. LeBron, Cavs team beat them. Miami would beat them. Any Kobe, Shaq, Kobe Powell team beat them. I'm not trying to shit on okc, but I just think the average consumer doesn't view OKC as like this can't miss Juggernaut. And then Indiana was just, I mean, they're the four seed, so Halliburton, clearly a good player, but like, these guys aren't moving the needle. If you told me that it was Knicks, Lakers, I wouldn't have missed a dribble. I watched most of game one, I did not watch any of game two. And I watched a little on my phone the other day for game three because she had something on the television. It wasn't hard for me to convince, hey, can we watch the Thunder Pacer? So I watched second half on my phone while I was laying on the couch. But if it was warriors versus the Knicks, I wouldn't have been watching on my phone, on my couch. Fucking thing would have been on television. But it's like, I think there's an element of star power slash the markets. Because okc, like, I trust me, I went to the games when Durant Westbrook were playing the warriors, and that felt like an NFL Series and that team was treated like a big market team because Kevin Durant was a superstar and Russell was huge. So it's the NBA and baseball's like that too. The World Series last year dwarfed these NBA Finals. It was also the Dodgers and the Yankees. If you tell me it's the Indians and the Diamondbacks, it's not gonna be as big. Not even close. So it's most sports, just like most of our businesses can be kind of fickle. You know, if we had a huge recession right now and everyone cut their advertising budgets by a lot, guess what? Three now probably be impacted greatly. I'm pretty dependent on some factors that are out of my control. So I think the NBA is a good example. It's why David Stern used to cook the Bucks. He wanted the Lakers in there. He's no dummy. Now you could also make the argument from financially, it only fucks the ESPNs of the world, right? ABC, the league, their contracts set in stone. So you know they're prideful about it and you want to be bigger. But they just signed a decade long deal. So listen, I've been critical over the years. I'm like God this is not a good sign. Yet they signed for 3x the amount or 2 and a half x. That's all that matters.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[John Middlekauff]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Candace Parker]

I never envisioned being with a woman. I'll just be honest.

[Jemele Hill]

I'm Jemele Hill, host of the sports and politics podcast Spolitics. On this week's episode, I'm joined by basketball legend Candice Parker, who stops by to discuss her candid new book, the Can Do Mindset, in which she shares why she waited two years into marriage to come out.

[Candace Parker]

Like when I close my eyes at night, every night, I was like, I need to find my prince Charming. Like, it was never a princess. Like that never entered into my mind. But, you know, as I learned, sometimes life gives you things wrapped in a package that you didn't expect it. And that was just, you know. And honestly, it took me a long time to be okay with myself.

[Jemele Hill]

Make sure to listen to this week's episode of Spolitix on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[John Middlekauff]

Tyler, is it a ridiculous idea to get rid of pass interference? I'm so tired of feeling I'm getting fucked by a phantom dpi OPI call. Let them hand fight. Let them grab. Don't like the DB is grabbing. You throw that man at the coach. Of course, typical defenseless receiver and other safety rules would apply. Love the show. You sound like a gambler or someone rooting for your team. It sucks. I think there is no. Listen, holding. You could call a lot of plays and when it gets called, it tends to be egregious. Sometimes it can be questionable, but there's nothing like, I don't know, a third nine and a dude gets called for a pass interference. You're like, are you kidding me? Defensive holding is always egregious. You're already not letting these guys hit, so you're at a huge disadvantage. I don't know what to tell you. I wouldn't get rid of the rule because you can't just let them. This isn't mma, but I do. I am in agreement that it is typically called too easily. I'm with you there. It's called too easily, but it's not going away for the bag. Who is the better player in their prime? Ad assume that's Aaron Donald or J.J. watt? That's a hell of a question. I think I would lean J.J. watt. I'm trying to look up how many defensive player the JJ won three. Aaron Donald won three. I think JJ had multiple 20 sack seasons. Donald had the 120. I think in their heyday, they are equally as dominant and unstoppable. I would say if they're both healthy in the prime of their career, I would say JJ is the more versatile player. He can line up at basically every position. Now, I've seen Aaron Donald against the 49ers when you know they have an offensive line injury and the left tackle is not Trent Williams and they will put Aaron Donald out of defensive end and he will fucking smoke the backup tackle. So, I mean, two of the best players in the history of the league. If you told me I get both guys healthy for eight straight years, I would take JJ Watt and it's no, it's no slight at Aaron Donald. Who special player. I just, I mean, I just watched JJ in his heyday. I mean 6, 5, 300 pounds. There was no stopping him. He could pass rush like Aaron Donald, but he was unstoppable versus the run as well. Aaron Donald's good against the run too, but I would give the slight edge. I would say J.J. watt in his prime heyday is like a 10 out of 10. Like you could argue is the perfect player as a defensive lineman, because literally every position, I mean, you can't really play like true True nose tackle, right? Like, you know, like a Vita Vea. Like, he's not 340 pounds, but there really is not a position he can't play. He's probably a little more versatile than Aaron Donald, but we're splitting hairs. Honestly. It's like the equivalent of like, who would you want, Brady or Manning? It's like, obviously everyone's picking Brady, but you know what I mean. The person that ends up with Peyton Manning ain't complaining. Speaking of cocktails with the boys, what's your go to? I'm a professional bartender and would like to take a crack at crafting you a custom drink. I'm pretty simple. I'm a Tito soda guy. Been a Tito soda guy probably for a decade plus. That's been my go to drink. I would say my 30s sometimes. Maybe if it's sunny outside during the day, I might do a Tito soda. Splash of crayon. If I'm playing golf, I will have probably a transfusion with Tito's. So I'm just a loyal Tito's guy, whether they're paying me or not. And I've been in business with them. I'm not in business with them technically, I think currently, but very, very loyal to that brand. Know multiple people that work for them. Love Tito. That's his name. The guy that started the company still owns it. It's an incredible story. And I just. I'm a vodka guy. I did date a girl probably five, six years ago that was. Just drank tequila sodas. So, I mean, I can have a tequila soda, but I would say someone would have to give me. I don't think I would ever order that. And occasionally, like, if you're in like a Mexican restaurant or something, I'll have a margarita. Skinny, you know, try to keep those abs. But I'm a. I'm a vodka soda. I'm pretty simple. I don't drink that much anymore. I'd say golf course cocktails and out to dinner maybe. And beers. I mean, I'll. We're having some beers. I'll have a beer. Hope you're doing well. Question for the pod. Do you think we will ever see advertising patches on NFL jerseys like we have on in the NBA? Why are we not. I would say. I mean, I would. Yeah, I think it'd be very possible that we have. Everything's always on the table when it comes to growing revenue. So that's an easy one. They have the patches in practice. Like when you see the Eagles or the Patriots or some of these teams. I think the 49ers at practice and you see the still shots of whatever the local hospital is or the local whatever the company is. So I would say, yeah, definitely possible. Mailbag question this from, from Art. With all these leagues struggling with crappy ownership, what do you think of this idea? Start a five or ten year clock. Any team that can't win 25% of their games, the league demands the owner sell the team. Would this motivate owners to spend more money or just do a better job? Obviously not a probable thing to happen. Your thoughts? Here's the problem. If I'm selling you something that is worth the amount of money that a basketball team, a baseball team, obviously an NFL team is worth the money, like what I'm paying, it's hard for you to be like, well, you also need to do this to keep the asset. There's not a long list of these human beings. It's why these sales are becoming more and more complicated. Because when the Boston Celtics are going for what they go for, $6 billion? Seven. They didn't even. They don't even own their arena. The 49ers just sold on a valuation of like $8.5 billion. If Jed York and the York family wanted to sell, how many human beings? One, there's such a small amount of people that have access to, you know, have that much money. And two, like, you kind of gotta like football now. Maybe there are people that have bought recently. You Bronco fans would know better. Like Penner, the Waltons. Are they really into football or was like, we need a place to put our money and this is just a great buy. So I think it's just a small list. You know, I hear this forever. It's like, could Jeff Bezos buy team X, NBA or football? And maybe he does. I don't know enough about Jeff Bezos is like, you know what he likes to do. But does he like football and basketball? Does he like sports? Because if he doesn't, like, yeah, just, I'm so rich, I don't need to do this. So I don't want to right part of it, clearly. You know, some of these guys really like football. Obviously the old school owners, you know, the Morrows, the Hunt families, the Krafts, like Jerry, the Rooneys, I mean, we go on the football. They fucking like football. They love football. Same thing goes for like Mark. No one ever questioned, like, do you think Mark Cuban likes the sport of basketball? Hell, Joe Lacob, it's like Joe Lako plays a pickup game twice a week at Stanford Okay. Loves hoops. So part of it, I get this guy to spend all this money I need to find a guy that likes football or basketball or baseball and then I'm going to dictate. Well, if it doesn't go well, you have to sell. What? No. Part of the reason I'm buying it usually is to park my cash somewhere. And two, I'm doing it for my family. So. I like your idea. Like I understand where you're coming from, but it's just, it's too far fetched. With South America and Australia offering better time zones for American football, do you think the NFL will gradually phase out of the UK when it comes to overseas games? It's a good question. I, I don't know. I honestly haven't even thought about it. I personally, I do believe that it's a little far fetched to think that they could put a, put a division if they were to expand in the uk like you said, not just the time zone period, but just the logistics of travel. You know, if you need to. I mean, hell, when I was with the Eagles, it's like, hey, we're working out middle cough. Get him a plane flight. It's like, we're gonna have a workout tomorrow. It's one o' clock in the afternoon. It's like, where does he live? It's like, oh, he lives in, he lives in Scottsdale. Okay, we can find him a flight in two hours. It'll be here tonight. Let him sleep a little bit. Tell him work out tomorrow. 8:30 in the morning. Think how more difficult that would be. It's like, okay, fly him out from Scottsdale to, to London to Spain to wherever. So I don't know about enough about the time zones, but I do think it's a little complicated. Yes. If you're talking about putting a team there, when it comes to just watching, isn't Australia, Is Australia a better time zone? Isn't Australia way ahead too? Could be wrong thoughts. To address the questionable officiating, we're crushing officials in the middle of June. The league should put out a missed call report after each week wraps up. Report gets released on Tuesday morning. Then have the head of officials for each crew do a press conference. That way we can actually get real data on Cruz, what type of penalties get missed and what point of the game the calls are being made. Missed your thoughts? I think these leagues are very, in a weird way protective over like the sanctity of. Listen, these are human beings. They're going to be calls missed. Some are more Egregious than others. We have replay. There should be some mechanism to try to get it right, but there also should be some sort of human element. I mean, ultimately this is a reality television show. So if you're Roger Goodell and you're the league, like, do I need that? Like part of the reality is everyone bitching and moaning. It's like, until you stop watching the games, why do I care if you're mad at the official or not? I've been mad a million times over the last 10, 15 years. Gambling, rooting, you name it. Think how many coaches and players get mad all the time. What does it change? It literally doesn't change anything. Ever so long winded way. I don't think the league cares. I really don't think they care. You know, I. As long as people watch, nothing matters. Big fan of the pod. I'm 25 and my dad has been on me about investing at an early age. Although I've been investing my money in some stocks. Safe and risky. What do you think is the best strategy when investing for the long term? And is there any companies that you're investing in that you feel good about? I think if I could go back and do it all over again. Listen, it's, it's always easy to be like, ah, see Patrick Mahomes saw that one come, no one knew. It's like, oh, should have put it all in on Facebook or Apple 15 years. It's, it's always easy to play that game. Stocks, sports. If I would have just put a couple hundred dollars a month when I was your age into the S&P 500, I mean I would be worth a lot more money now and just having a retirement plan set up instead of starting it at, you know, truly for myself, putting money away at 34 instead of 24 on just safe stuff. Listen, you can play the game all day long and I do companies, you use companies, you know, you know, I think we have examples over the course of the last 20 years. I watch Netflix, it gets turned on in my house every day. Right. You know, think how many people over the last 20 years use Google daily. I mean I'm looking at an Apple computer, I got an Apple phone, I got an iPad, I watch Apple plus the show sticks with Owen Wilson pretty good. I wish I would have invested in Apple 15 years ago. I think if you think that mindset, when you invest in stuff, listen there's always going to be risk involved. But I think if you just in general invest in our economy, basically invest in American capitalism. The S&P 500 the S&P. There's ETFs with the top 100 companies. That's what I would do to just have something you're just investing in at a young age that you're just betting on the come that way and it gives you diversity. That's not how I gamble. Invest. My investing strategy is a little bit more of a gamble when it comes to just investing in individual stocks, but we're all a little different that way.

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[Candace Parker]

CT mobile.com I never envisioned being with a woman. I'll just be honest.

[Jemele Hill]

I'm Jemel Hill, host of the sports and politics podcast Spolitics. On this week's episode, I'm joined by basketball legend Candice Parker, who stops by to discuss her candid new book, the Can Do Mindset, in which she shares why she waited two years into marriage to come out.

[Candace Parker]

Like when I close my eyes at night, every night, I was like I need to find my prince charming. Like it was never a princess. Like that never entered into my mind. But you know, as I learned, sometimes life gives you things wrapped in a package that you didn't expect it. And that was just, you know. And honestly, it took me a long time to be okay with myself.

[Jemele Hill]

Make sure to listen to this week's episode of Spolitix on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[John Middlekauff]

Longtime listener and first time messenger, I'm headed to Arizona in October and I was wondering if you had any golf recommendations. I think I've given them a million. I need to just do a YouTube video of like here are Middlekop's recommendations. When you come to Scottsdale restaurants, low price, mid price, high price. Golf courses, low price, high price. Some other fun stuff. Honestly, that's probably not a terrible idea. What to do when coming to Scottsdale. Maybe I should just do a video. That's actually a pretty good idea. Jackson, who, if you've listened to the show for a while that used to come on, do college football stuff. He's now part of the volume part of our show and we were just talking about some just ideas. That's a pretty good one actually. Do like a vlog. Also, do you pay attention to the Niners beat, for example, the Grant Cohn versus Dave Lombardi beef. I used to be more dialed in to those guys. I like both of them. I would say I'm better friends with Lombardi. I love Grant's dad Lowell, who's a legendary columnist for the San Francisco Chronicle that my dad loved. You know, my dad passed away but loved the sports section and Lowell was Probably one of the more important guys in the San Francisco chronicle in the 80s and 90s, which probably one of the bigger papers in America. And then I got to know him through doing media stuff in the Bay. He was fucking awesome. Listen, part of it is you should have healthy competition in the beat world is so different than it used to be. But one thing for Grant and Lombardi, for those of you listening, they're younger guys that cover the 49ers and they're big on social media and big on. I mean, they're huge on YouTube and they're kind of the modern day beat reporter. And it's aggressive now. The thing is, you know, the hatred that you get, you see on Twitter or online. I've been to a million practices with both those guys and it's just normal though I did. I was at the practice when Kinlaw, Javon Kinlaw, it looked like for a second he was going to kick Grant's ass. And Kinlaw, you know, overrated player a little bit. I thought my guy Peters gave him a little too much money. Massive, dude. I mean, Kinlaw would have beat up every beat reporter in any practice ever. Monster. But they calmed it down. They hashed it out. I've tried to spend less time on the Internet, especially in the summer during the fall football season. I got no choice. I mean, it's what I do. I try to balance it now. So I'm probably not as dialed as I once was when it came to Internet beasts with the media. Question for the bag. I know it's way too early, but any predictions for Mike McCarthy next year? A few coaches every year get fired and a few quarterbacks get traded. Any futures on your board? It's weird because objectively, if you look at McCarthy's career, he's a winner, right? Obviously. In Green Bay, ton of success goes to Dallas. Three straight years, 12 wins a season, hosts how many playoff games? Just the one. I know they lost the Niners. They played the Bucks that year. They won. Yeah, he also two heels because he lost the Packers. So two of three years. In the three straight years of winning 12 games, he won the division, hosted two playoff games. Now he lost them both. But think how many teams. You know, one issue with Mike is people view him through a negative lens or a pessimistic lens. Instead of seeing the positives like this guy brings something to the table, people view what he can't do. And I think that's going to hurt him. I would never say he's not going to ever get a job again. But I do think it's going to be a little uphill battle now. It's always dependent, like on a given year, if there's a Ben Johnson, a Mike McDonald and a Mike Vrabel, like, he's in trouble, you know, I mean, Mickey Loomis is like a good friend of his and they went with Kellen Moore over him. Maybe a couple years away could do him good. But one thing that hurt him, that when he said he took a year away with Dallas and in his interview, he told Jerry, I watched every game and I knew. And then he admitted during the press conference that he lied. I think that kind of always carried with him, you know, and. Which is crazy because you go, well, what's Mike good at? I don't know. Coaching quarterbacks, calling offense. So think about this, his number one trait as a coach. He can call the plays and coach the quarterbacks. It's like, that should be fucking pretty important. I don't know if it's his look. It does not feel like people are high on him for whatever reason. And he handled the Cowboys job pretty well. Now, I think if you're hiring them thinking you're going to get some guy that's going to dominate the highest levels, I think it's fair to question that. But you could do way worse. I mean, look at some of these coaches getting hired. Like, what are the chances would the Jags. Here's a good example, and I'm. This is nothing against Liam Cohen, but, like, what are the chances that Liam Cohen wins in Jacksonville? You'd say, historically pretty low. But if I told you that Mike McCarthy had gone to the Jags and was coaching that team, you'd be like, I bet they're pretty solid. I bet within a couple years they're in the playoffs. You would have to bet that now, Liam might take him to the playoffs, but he easily might not. You would probably bet against him doing it just based on the history of the franchise. So I think he's going to have to fight the perception. I don't know. I don't. I don't quite get it because I'm all for being critical of Mike McCarthy in individual situations and games. But, like, if you just tell me that he's never going to get a job, which I think is very possible, that's kind of crazy to me. It really is. And if I was a betting man, I would say it's coin flip at best that he's a head coach again. I easily think he could be a coordinator and they coordinators make millions of dollars. So it's not, I don't think he has a, you know, his contract ended, so it's not like he's being paid to do nothing. He doesn't have a con. Like he's not being paid now. He's made a ton of money, but at the end of the day it's like, how old is Mike McCarthy? 58? 60? It's not like he's 80 now. I would imagine he's going to want to make some coin. 61 if I was betting right now he'll be an offensive coordinator in 2026 would be my guess. I would say if I did a pie chart, I would say 60% that 30% head coach because he's going to get some interviews and 10% just never coaches again. Which you never know. I mean, maybe he's just over it.

[Candace Parker]

The Volume.

[Jemele Hill]

I'm Jemele Hill, host of the sports and politics podcast Politics. On this week's episode, I'm joined by all time great Hooper and basketball analyst Candace Parker, who gives insight into her candid new book, including why she waited two years into marriage to come out.

[Candace Parker]

I never envisioned being with a woman. I'll just be honest. Like when I close my eyes at night, every night I was like, I need to find my prince charming. Like it was never a princess.

[Jemele Hill]

Make sure you listen to this episode of spolitix on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Michelle Williams]

I also want to address the Tonys. On a recent episode of Checking in with Michelle Williams, I open up about feeling snubbed by the Tony Awards, Do I? I was never mad. I was disappointed because I had high hopes to hear this and more on disappointment and protecting your peace. Listen to Checking in with Michelle Williams from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[WebMD Host]

Hear insightful, entertaining discussions on today's important health and wellness topics on the Health discovered podcast from WebMD. Through in depth conversations with experts, Health Discovered covers everything from tips for healthier living to the latest on therapy and mental health.

[John Middlekauff]

My goal is to really destigmatize mental health treatment and looking at it from a whole health perspective, physical health and mental health can be intertwined.

[WebMD Host]

Listen to WebMD Health discovered on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Michelle Williams]

This is an iHeart podcast.