3 & Out - Draft Grades, Does it matter where you go to school, Does Shedeur like the attention

Summary

Detailed Summary of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd" – Episode 3: "Draft Grades, Does it Matter Where You Go to School, Does Shedeur Like the Attention"

Release Date: April 29, 2025

In Episode 3 of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd," hosted by iHeartPodcasts and The Volume, Colin Cowherd delves deep into the intricacies of NFL draft grades, the significance of a player's college background, and the intense media spotlight on Shedeur Sanders. This episode offers a comprehensive analysis of these topics, enriched with expert opinions, listener interactions, and insightful conclusions.

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1. The Relevance of Draft Grades

John Middlekauff, the host during the main segment, initiates the discussion by critically examining the validity of draft grades in evaluating NFL prospects.

• Critique of Draft Grades: Middlekauff argues that draft grades lack substantial merit, labeling them as "the dumbest thing in the history of the Internet" ([05:15]). He emphasizes that neither teams, players, nor fans possess complete knowledge to accurately grade draft picks, rendering these assessments largely subjective and inconsequential.

• Comparison to Mock Drafts: He draws parallels between draft grades and mock drafts, stating, "Think how irrelevant mock drafts are" ([07:30]). Middlekauff points out that unforeseen trades and player movements often render both mock drafts and draft grades moot shortly after their release.

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2. Analyzing the 49ers’ Draft Strategy

Middlekauff transitions to scrutinizing the San Francisco 49ers' recent draft choices, highlighting both commendable selections and questionable decisions.

• Defensive Line Focus: He lauds the team's emphasis on strengthening the defensive line, noting the selection of players like Solomon Thomas and Nick Bosa as pivotal moves ([10:45]). According to Middlekauff, these picks are "really good players in the NFL" and essential for the team's defensive prowess.

• Quarterback Selection Controversy: The marquee point of contention is the drafting of quarterback Shador Sanders in the fifth round. Middlekauff expresses skepticism about the media's overwhelming focus on Sanders, especially given his father's legendary status. He remarks, "This has been one of the biggest stories in the history of the draft" ([15:20]).

• Impact of High Picks: Highlighting past high draft picks like Trey Lance and Brock Purdy, Middlekauff underscores that high selections don't always translate to success. He contends, "The key to their draft is going to be those two defensive linemen" ([18:10]), suggesting that the 49ers' future hinges more on their defensive additions than their quarterback choice.

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3. The Influence of College Programs on NFL Success

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to exploring how a player's college program impacts their NFL draft prospects and subsequent performance.

• Importance of Competitive College Experience: Middlekauff asserts that players from top-tier programs like Ohio State and Georgia are better prepared for the NFL due to the rigorous competition they face in college. He states, "If you're not going to be at one of the quote Unquote Blue bloods. You got to earn the respect of the league" ([20:05]).

• Success of Non-Traditional Programs: He also acknowledges the success of players from less prominent programs, citing Iowa State under Matt Campbell as an example. Middlekauff notes, "Iowa State really has... guys that are ready to come in, contribute and play at a really high level" ([22:40]).

• Evaluating Player Readiness: Emphasizing the role of college systems, Middlekauff explains that players from competitive conferences develop essential instincts and skills that are highly valued in the NFL. This preparation often outweighs the prestige of the college program itself.

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4. Shedeur Sanders’s Draft and Media Frenzy

The episode dedicates considerable attention to Shedeur Sanders, exploring the reasons behind the disproportionate media focus on his fifth-round selection.

• Media Amplification Due to Legacy: Middlekauff attributes the intense scrutiny Sanders faces to his father, Deion Sanders's illustrious legacy. He remarks, "He's not Peyton or Eli's son, but when you are a Manning and your last name is football royalty, it feels a little different" ([25:00]).

• Public Perception vs. Performance: Highlighting the disparity between Sanders's draft position and his actual performance, Middlekauff questions the fairness of the media's fixation. He observes, "People are scared, which I get it. If you're friends with Dion, you don't want to crush his kid" ([27:30]).

• Impact on Team Dynamics: Discussing the potential repercussions for the 49ers, Middlekauff speculates on how Sanders's draft and the ensuing attention might influence team chemistry and future draft strategies. He posits, "The night he was drafted, he was at the Dallas club partying and holding a suitcase of money" ([29:10]).

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5. Future Draft Predictions and Team Strategies

Concluding the episode, Middlekauff offers predictions and strategic insights into upcoming drafts and team performances.

• 49ers’ Future Prospects: He remains cautiously optimistic about the 49ers, insisting that their defensive additions could solidify the team's standing in the NFL. Middlekauff advises, "The key to their draft is going to be those two defensive linemen. Got to be good and obviously ideally hit on some random guys throughout the course of the third through seventh round" ([31:45]).

• Draft Strategy Recommendations: Middlekauff recommends that teams prioritize versatile and reliable players over high-profile but less proven talents. He emphasizes the importance of coaching and player development in realizing draft potential.

• Long-Term Outlook: Reflecting on the broader NFL landscape, Middlekauff anticipates that the lessons from this draft—particularly the pitfalls of overhyping legacy-driven picks—will influence how teams approach future selections.

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Throughout the episode, "The Herd with Colin Cowherd" provides an in-depth exploration of NFL draft dynamics, blending analytical commentary with engaging discourse. John Middlekauff's insights challenge conventional wisdom on draft grades and underscore the multifaceted factors that contribute to a player's NFL success. The discussion on Shedeur Sanders serves as a case study on the interplay between legacy, media influence, and athletic performance.

Notable Quotes:

• "Draft grades are the dumbest thing in the history of the Internet in terms of to take them seriously." – John Middlekauff [05:15]

• "If you're not going to be at one of the quote Unquote Blue bloods. You got to earn the respect of the league." – John Middlekauff [20:05]

• "This has been one of the biggest stories in the history of the draft." – John Middlekauff [15:20]

• "He's not Peyton or Eli's son, but when you are a Manning and your last name is football royalty, it feels a little different." – John Middlekauff [25:00]

• "The key to their draft is going to be those two defensive linemen. Got to be good and obviously ideally hit on some random guys throughout the course of the third through seventh round." – John Middlekauff [31:45]

This episode is a must-listen for NFL enthusiasts seeking a nuanced understanding of the draft process, the weight of collegiate affiliations, and the complexities surrounding high-profile draft picks like Shedeur Sanders.

Transcript

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[Wilmer Valderrama]

It's nostalgia overload as Wilmer Valderrama and Freddie Rodriguez welcome another amigo to their podcast, Dos Amigos. Wilmer's friend and former that 70s show castmate Topher Grace stops by the speakeasy for a two part interview to discuss his career and reminisce about old times.

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[John Middlekauff]

The Volume what is happening my people? How are we doing? I'm John. This is the Renown podcast and we are pedal to the metal because the draft is over and we're just getting started. I wanted to say a big thank you for everyone that listened to the podcast or watched on on the old YouTube. We had a big three or four days, couple shows with Colin. We had a reaction on Thursday, we had one on Friday, we had another one last night. So we really appreciate everyone that tuned in because we had a big weekend with obviously the lead story of Shador Sanders. That helped out a lot. So we appreciate that happening because I, I think the draft would have struggled from a headline perspective without him coming off last year with the quarterbacks. But other than that, today's gonna be a big mailbag. I kind of emptied the mailbag out. So @johnmittlecoff is the Instagram and just fire in those dms and get your questions answered here on the show. We will obviously have a lot of mailbags this offseason. I mean it's been the offseason for a while, so we'll just keep having mailbags with normal shows. But today is gonna be a mail bag only. I think I might do a go low tomorrow. We haven't done one of those in a couple weeks because last week was the draft. But I know we have a bunch of mailbag questions for the go low which I'm going to try to bang out. And we haven't really talked since Rory won the Masters, but this will be a very, very draft heavy mailbag today and yeah, very excited for the spring. Some of you guys that are new to the podcast, like, well, what do you do now? I don't know, we just keep podcasting. We this is this year round, baby, maybe a week or two off in the summer. But other than that we don't stop and we're talking so you can find us every day. You guys know the drill. If you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to three and out because there are going to be days if I'm not there that we have content out and we have a show out. You can always find it on the YouTube page where all this stuff gets multi purposed from a video standpoint. And other than that, before we dive into football, I got to tell you about my friends, my partners in the official ticketing app of this podcast, Game Time. Just listen. I've used every ticketing app and Game Time by far is the best one. What do you want to do? You want to go to a concert? I saw Luke Combs on stage with the Backstreet Boys at Stagecoach. Could have gone to Stagecoach, could have done it on us and saved a little money. Basketball games. I listen the gap between preseason basketball or preseason football and regular Season football is basically the same thing between regular season, NBA and playoff. NBA play of NBA is fantastic if your team's still alive. If you're a Laker fan, you only got one more game to watch, so you better enjoy it. NHL full swing ahead, obviously. Baseball, the regular seasons off and running. So comedy shows, concerts, we got you covered. Take the guesswork out of buying tickets with Game time, download the Gametime app, create an account, use the code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase terms. Apply again, create an account and redeem the code Johan for 20 off. Download the game Time app today. Last minute tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. Okay. I mean, I think the Shador Sanders topic is settled. Belichick and his girlfriend, that topic exploded on Sunday and means we're at spring football. So let's. Let's dive into some of your questions. Huge fan of the bag. Huge Niner fan. Curious to know your thoughts on their draft. Saw a couple draft grades and the team got panned. I personally thought they made some great picks. One silly Shanahan reach with Watkins, the Ole Miss wide receiver. But everything else was value with the defensive line as the main focus. Every year the Niners get ridiculed in the draft. Then the actual core talent is the rounds four through seven. How much stock should we even put into these draft grades? Listen, I mean, draft grades are the dumbest thing in the history of the Internet in terms of to take them seriously. No one has any clue. The graders, the teams, the actual players, the fans. No one knows you. Shit. I mean, no one has any clue. Now totally understand why they do draft grades, because the written word on the Internet has never been less powerful. Right? The videos and podcasts wiped them out. But that is still something that gets people to click. I'm guilty. I see someone, I was like, I'll click. I've clicked on multiple draft grades. Not even because I care. I just can't help it. It's like a. It's like an addiction. I've been doing it for multiple decades. No different than mock drafts. Think how irrelevant mock drafts are. Nobody knew that the Jacks were going to trade up. Nobody. And then all of a sudden they trade up. And the mock drafts are kind of irrelevant because all of a sudden Travis Hunter is not playing for the Browns and he's on the Jacks. And then it sets off like a domino effect. And it happens every year, but we consume a lot of mock drafts. Kyle Shanahan said his wife called him on draft day that just said she looked at a mock draft. And they really wanted Mikel Williams, the guy they ended up taking. And he was like, pick 28 in the mock draft, she looked at and says, kyle, Maybe she said, honey, maybe she said, babe, are we sure that we're drafting the right guy? Are you overvaluing this player? And even Kyle was like, had to like rethink. But yeah, it's like the mock drafts, the draft grades impact the fun of this whole thing, but they don't matter. The 49ers. I've been to the majority of Kyle Shanahan training camps, and the one thing I've learned, you get really excited like any training camp you go to when you have a high pick. And we're doing the Raiders forever. Khalil Mack, Amari Cooper, back to back years. You know, with the 49ers, they had Solomon Thomas and then Nick Bosa. I think back to back years, obviously Trey Lance, when they drafted really high. It's exciting to go see the first overall pick. But look at the names that I just gave out. Solomon Thomas never got his fifth year option picked up and was on like fourth different team. Trey Lance is one of the biggest draft whiffs of all time. Why? Because Brock Purdy came in, Wally pipped him, and it wasn't even close. Not a soul that was at training camp. Brock Purdy's rookie year went, hey, there's Brock Purdy. Do you know that this guy's going to become the starter? No one said that. Of course not. No one ever would say that. And I think you got to be very careful with just drafts. And this is why, like, I don't get that into it beside like the super famous players, because we see it every year. I've been to these practices where all of a sudden it's like, well, the third round guy is getting beat out by an undrafted free agent. The amount of guys that signed undrafted free agent contracts that will make teams for everybody is pretty mind blowing. And the thing with the 49ers was clear. I disagree with Kyle Shanahan and John lynch in terms of their emphasis on offensive line, especially the tackle position. Like, they are just allergic to taking tackles. I would draft tackles, multiple tackles throughout the draft. I would treat them like other positions. Like, maybe we'll hit on a guy in the fourth round. I'm not looking for Trent Williams in the fourth round, but can I get a serviceable player? And they just don't do that, you know, now maybe they were in position and guys went above them. I know in the third round, the Raiders took a couple offensive linemen they were probably interested in, but I asked around the NFL because I felt like I like Jalen Walker a little bit more than Michael Williams. I was rebuffed, like middle cuff. I think you're overhyping it. I didn't meet many people that I know that didn't weren't extremely high on their first round pick. Six five, 270 pounds. Just, you know, he's a little stiff but like he's got a chance to be a really, really good player in the NFL. Their second pick is 6 5, 6 6, 330 pounds. The defensive lineman from Texas. That's where I got some think it's a little rich. A lot of teams put a lot of emphasis in pass rushing from their interior defensive lineman. This guy's not really a pass rusher. He's much more of a run stuffer and he's battled defensive or injury concerns over the course of his career. But one thing with those first two picks, they got enormous human beings and their defensive line is non existent. It's like Nick Bosa and then it's that Will Smith gif where he walks into the, you know, to the mansion. Everyone's gone and he's just standing on the rug looking around. That's what it looks like after they've literally got rid of everybody. So I never have a problem taking blue chip players from blue chip programs and it's on you to coach them up. And their defensive line coach has had a lot of success. I think in the third round they had drafted the kind of run and hit guy from Oklahoma State, which again, some of my friends didn't love the player. But you know, you watch his highlights. Howie Roseman talked about this over the course of the draft weekend. This game is so much about space and speed now and that's what this guy is. But I mean put an emphasis on their later round picks. They have hit on a lot of those guys, but you know, who knows, I don't know. So I have no issue. I'm not pushing back against people going their drafts suck like nobody knows. They'll be fine. The key to their draft is going to be those two defensive linemen. Got to be good and obviously ideally hit on some random guys throughout the course of the third through seventh round. Right. But I think they had two high picks, pick 11 and pick whatever it was, 44 or 43 or 5 or whatever number it was in the second round. Like those guys got to be good. Like those were really, really, really valuable Assets in this draft. When a team is reviewing a draft prospect, how much does the school play? A factor in their draft grade? Generally speaking for context, I'm an Iowa State alum and it feels great. So many Cyclones not only got drafted, four in the 25 draft, five as a UDFA, but also seeing them make on the field contributions throughout the season. With Purdy hall and Montgomery being great examples among others. You know, I think because Iowa State, I mean let's face it, the Big 12 is the worst of the power conferences, but under Matt Campbell, they've proven now to have NFL ready guys. Boise falls under this category. When I was at Fresno State, Pat Hill fell under this category. There are certain programs that aren't like blue blood blue chip top 10 programs that are like we're getting a high level player from there. You know, Iowa is never going to win the national championship. I was probably never even going to make the playoffs. But you draft certain players from there like you're getting NFL guys. And obviously when you draft players, I saw Monty awesome fortune the line. I almost said linebacker, the general manager from the Arizona Cardinals say, because I think they drafted multiple Ohio State players. And he's like, think how hard practices we know how much you know in terms of they play in the bright light games, they play in all these playoff games. They play in multiple Penn State, Michigan and Oregon. Like you play in huge games throughout the regular season. Think about practice. And this was true for Alabama, this is now true for Georgia. This is true at Ohio State, Michigan under Harbaugh. If you are a DB at Ohio State, every single day you're playing NFL guy. If you played for Nick Saban, no matter what position you play, every single day at practice, you're going up from your freshman year going up against other NFL people. So obviously the games when you play, you know, certain competition depending on the week. But when you're the top programs, Ohio State, Georgia, now Texas Sark's really turned them in to a top flight program and obviously the nil. Having money has helped, but I think when he first got there they didn't even have a player drafted. I mean Texas was in a bad spot and he's turned them pretty quickly just into one of the elites again. And I think that really, really matters for, you know, Oklahoma was like this under Bob Stoops and then Lincoln is like so many NFL guys, you just get better practicing every day. So I, I think it really, really matters. And if you're not going to be at, you know, one of the quote Unquote Blue bloods. You got to earn the respect of the league. And I think Matt Campbell and Iowa State really has because they have guys that are ready to come in, contribute and play at a really high level. I have a question with the fall of Sanders, is he privately happy that every single podcast in the sport show led with him today? When is the last time in draft history that a fifth round draft pick was the lead story? Doesn't it just feed the legendary ego? I was kind of thinking about that today. Wherever you fall on him, it's got to be pretty crazy. And I get his dad's Deion Sanders, but he kind of got the like Tim Tebow treatment now. A huge part of that is if he had just gone pure pick 21 to the Steelers or somewhere in the 40s, it wouldn't have been the same like anytime you're part of like a legendary, no pun intended fall. A precipitous drop viewed by people. Listen, I'm sure there are people like, I can't take hearing this anymore and I tend to fall that way too. But this has been one of the crazier stories. I can just see by the numbers that I've since I've been doing this for a decade plus ever seen. I don't know how he feels. I've never met the kid, know nothing about him. Seems like he handled it pretty well in terms of like from the prank call. I know he went to the club and has like a bunch of money in a Louis something. I'm not even briefcase or something. But maybe he just doesn't even care. Maybe he's kind of numb to it. Maybe he truly doesn't give a shit, honestly. Or maybe he does. I'm done even trying to guess where he falls. Be interesting when Deion comes out with his first comments where he falls because we haven't really seen Dion like just sit down, you know, with on a show and sling some takes because that's coming. You could convince me a lot of different angles. Well, I'd be stunned if Deion is like, I screwed up. I wish I would have handled it differently. I don't think he's thrown that pitch, but whenever we get him talking, I don't know. Are the Lynch 49ers just plain bad at drafting in three years, 21 to 23, they only have two players who will see a second contract with Brock, Purdy and Lenore, they seem to overvalue perceived fit in their system compared to consensus rankings. While teams like the Eagles and Lions have been stacking blue chips by not overthinking the picks. Do you think this year's 49ers draft class could be different? And why? Well, it's hard. When you draft 11, you don't get the pick of the litter, but you. You get the option to select guys that the good teams, the Chiefs, the Eagles, the Ravens, the Bills would die to have access to. They would have. Imagine what all those teams would do to have the access to draft. Mikel Williams, who most people thought was going to go in the top 10. John lynch said he was going to go in the top 10. So I don't give you, like, I don't give the 49ers credit on drafting Nick Bosa. Like, you just don't get any credit on that. Like, no shit. Easy pick. Like, you don't get credit on drafting Miles Garrett. If anything, it's an indictment that you suck so bad to draft that high. Or you do get a lot of credit. It's like, well, Fred Warner in the third, George Kittle in the fifth, Brock Purdy in the seventh. Lenore was. Lenore. I think Lenore is a fifth and Ambry Thomas was a third. Like that. Those are really good picks. You get credit for those. Michael Williams, like, I. I don't give you. I give you a little more credit than Bosa because you're drafting 11, not two, but, like, you get credit in the second, third, fourth round, and we'd all be taking educated guesses. Nobody has any clue. Honestly. I've heard a lot of people that I know don't love their draft picks, but not a soul ever thought Purdy was any good. Played some pretty big games so far in his short career. Since it appears Shador. The other thing with the 49ers, like, here's the thing with the Eagles. Howie Roseman runs the draft. Howie Roseman is the boss. He runs the draft. Kyle Shanahan and the coaching staff has a massive impact on the draft. Obviously, they let John do some stuff, but John lynch is not picking a player that Kyle Shanahan doesn't want and probably isn't pushing to get. So I think that depending on your building, like the Chiefs right now, Brett Veach runs the draft. Andy Reid's like, I don't want to do this. And he's done that. He's been like that since he got to Kansas City. And look how they've done pretty good. A lot of success. Scouts should scout, GM should pick players, coaches to coach. But that's not really how a lot of the way the sport works anymore because most of these like Seattle got a ton of credit. Like great looking draft on paper. Mike McDonald's not picking the players. John is. So I don't love my coach, you know, picking all the players. I don't because I do think it's difficult for them to separate evaluation from the way they view it through a coaching lens. Obviously it can help them out positively sometimes, but I think like almost knowing too much Football limit your way to be objective. That sounds crazy, but I promise you some of these coaches are terrible evaluators and great coaches. It's completely different I would say profession almost. I mean it really is. Even though it's under the umbrella of football, it couldn't be any different. The NBA 82 game grind is done and now the real fun begins. 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[Wilmer Valderrama]

It's nostalgia overload as Wilmer Valderrama and Freddie Rodriguez welcome another amigo to their podcast, Dos Amigos. Wilbur's friend and former that 70s show castmate Topher Grace stops by the speakeasy for a two part interview to discuss his career and reminisce about old times.

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We were still in that place of like, what will this experience become? And you go, you're having the best time. But it was like such a perfect golden time.

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You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.

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[John Middlekauff]

Since it appears Shador to the Browns was a Jimmy Haslam move, do you think he's even. Do you think he even gets drafted without an owner facilitating the pick? It's a hell of a question, man. I. I think the easy answer is, like, we'll never know. Who knows? I would have a hard time thinking that some GM would go, listen, seventh round. But, like, what the hell? I mean, honestly, what's the difference in a, in a quote unquote bad draft between like, the fourth or fifth round and the seventh with a quarterback? Like, he's gonna be a backup no matter what? So I do think when owner, I think owners would have got involved in the sixth or the seventh round because they go, we're not paying this guy anything. It's on me. If you guys want to cut this guy, you can cut him whenever you want, but there is too much value here. So I, I think let's say the Browns never exist or Jimmy Haslam never forces their, their hand. I think he gets drafted. But if you told me that he got drafted in the seventh round, like, I, I think it would be on the table, which, again, is kind of crazy because talent wise, He's a top 50 player, clearly top 75 player at work. So I don't think anyone would debate that. But it does really matter. I mean, the. I just, I remember I did something on the Todd McShay Report. Again, I was just giving my opinion based on that report because at the time, and this was two months ago, Todd doesn't really just throw shit out at the wall and hope it sticks. And he said, like, he's had some awful meetings. And I remember thinking and saying that, like, that's pretty crazy to me because usually, like, this is kind of an important job interview, you Know, it's one where if you get drafted high, they don't pay millions. They pay like $40 million. If you get drafted in the second round, you make millions of dollars. Like, it's kind of a big deal. And then, you know, like classic on the comments, he didn't want to conform that you see that a lot. It's like, well, guys, part of this business, like in any business where a lot of money's online, when you're interviewing with someone is to kind of be on your best behavior. Literally everyone does it, especially people that aren't and any people that don't. Historically, in Football one are either just complete morons and deserve to fail, because they usually do, or people that are so goddamn good they could walk into an interview, pull down their pants and fart on the people interviewing them and nothing would matter. It's like, yeah, we'll still take you fourth. Like, he. And he did not fall into that category. But in his mind, and this is what really turned people off, clearly he carried himself like he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Based on all these reports. And obviously just look at the actions. Yet they all looked at him just like a run of the mill player. Which to me, if this wasn't Chador Sanders, and that's what makes this such a polarizing thing, is his name. But if he was just a normal player and he had acted like that and we all thought, like, he should be a top couple round pick and fell, every single person would be calling this guy a douchebag. Every single person. Like, I think it'd be universal, but it's like, people are scared, which, I get it. If you're friends with Dion, you don't want to crush his kid. And again, no one said he did, like, anything bad off the field. But in terms of the interview, like, it's like, well reported now. Like, it's well established what happened and why he fell. Because it's like, why are you acting like this? Nobody acts like this. It's what pushed and turned everyone off. Nobody acts like this. If anything, guys that aren't as good. Jalen Milroe had an awful season, yet he was blowing people away with his interviews. Dylan Gabriel is tiny relative to NFL standards for quarterbacks viewed very small. People love the fucking guy. Why? Because, like, sit down with him, like, God, I want this guy. I want to draft that guy. That's. That's usually what quarterbacks do. Most of these quarterbacks in this class are, I would say, like, super impressive guys. The Riley Leonard's Will Howard's, Dylan Gabriel's, Jalen Milrose. I haven't heard one negative thing on any of them. That is the other problem. He went in with his attitude, clearly in these rooms, which, again, when I say winner, that no one does that. Nobody. I don't know why you pulled down your pants and fart on someone, but I was just trying to think of something outrageous. Longhorns fan. I got consistent pushback for believing Ewers was overrated. I saw a player that never seemed to perform well into the biggest moments, ran in two instead of out of trouble, and was a product of the scheme. My question is, as a former scout, what did you see on tape, in your opinion, that forced him down to the seventh round? I was never a big fan, and obviously because you guys played in so many big games over the last couple of years, we watched a lot of you. Clearly, if everything's perfect and he just drops back and throws a deep ball or throws a ball where the guy's open, the ball looks pretty coming out of his hand. And in college, depending on who you're playing, he can be put in those situations. You're like, that was just a beautiful play. But the better teams you play football becomes, there's an instinctive element. You got to have a feel for the game. And when I watched Quinn Ewers play football, I saw a guy that was robotic, that didn't have a feel for the game and those type players. At quarterback, I am 100% always out on. I don't care how tall you are, I don't care how big your arm is. I just saw a very robotic and a guy that just lacked natural instincts to play the position, because to be good at football at any position, but especially quarterback, is like, People loved Cam Ward's instincts. I would say Shador has pretty natural quarterback instincts. Right? It's why he's. You would consider him a playmaker. When I watch Quinn Ewers, I just saw, like, kind of bl. Honestly, him and Carson Beck are very similar. You just watch, you're like, I don't see it now. They can have stretches in the game. I would say Carson Beck had stretches throughout his career that looked better than Quinn Ewers. I never understood people projecting Quinn Ewers really high. But I will say this. He has a much better arm than Arch Manning. Now, maybe Arch is young, maybe his arm can get better. But the arm I saw last year from Arch Manning in when he played is pretty average relative to NFL standards. Speaking Arch, why Is Arch getting all this hype, But I see Nussmeyer getting left off early draft boards. Only 4k yard passer coming back. NFL star style thrower and will have plenty of experience. Guy is a winner who carried his team with the LSU janitor for running backs. After all the injuries, he needs to rename himself Shador. Listen, hype is real and media hype is real. And when you are, it's one thing if you're like Steph Curry. His dad was an NBA player, but his dad was dell curry, not Dr. J or Michael Jordan, right? If Steph Curry had been Michael Jordan's son or Dr. J son, the hype on him coming out would have been a lot crazier. He wouldn't have been denied at Virginia Tech coming out of high school and had to go to Davidson just based on name alone. And his dad was an NBA player. So if your dad's an NFL player, which countless guys who are NFL NFL sons that get drafted every single year. But when you are he's not Peyton or Eli's son, but when you are a Manning and your last name is football royalty, it feels a little different. I would say the same thing for Shador Sanders. His dad isn't just one of the greatest players in the history of the league, he's one of the greatest athletes in the history of America. And he's definitely one of the biggest personalities to ever play pro sports. So it just, it just creates something. And I'll say this, Shador played well. Arch is going to play in a much more difficult conference than Chador did. But who knows? Like you said, Garrett Nuss Meyer's dad also played in the NFL. Coaches now in the NFL. But if it was Garrett Brady and he was like Tom Brady's nephew or it was Garrett Favre, we'd probably hype him up a lot more. Fair or not, that's just part of the deal. It really is. If I wasn't John. Middle cough. But I was John. Huh? Let's say I was John Francesa. It's like that's Mike Frances. Kid worked in the NFL. Now he does a podcast for Coward. I bet I would get discussed a little bit differently than I do. Just it comes with territory. John Francis is actually a pretty solid name. My twin brother and I watch you whenever a new episode drops. Appreciate it. I want to know what you think about the Saints draft and what we're going to do next season is drafting a quarterback still in the cards. I text some people because again, sometimes when you have a Bad exposure. I'm not in the weeds like I used to be. So a lot of my exposure comes on my couch in the Saturdays, the biggest games and you know, banks to me. I had, I would say a lukewarm kind of first big exposure to them in the Georgia game. And I have countless friends who like that pick a lot. So I said, listen, that know what they're doing and are on winning teams and have won a lot in the league. So it's like people like that pick, no issue with that pick. And I am never anti taking offensive lineman really high. It's always going to be the right move because when you hit on it, no one ever complains about having awesome tackles on your team. I just can't get behind the quarterback selection. I think it's insane. Now Derek is leading some sermon the other day, talking about his shoulder, bitching and moaning about the media when it's like, didn't your agent leak this, bro? Like, what are we even talking about? I'm still a little confused by this whole Derek Carr shoulder saga. He's doing podcasts with his brother. Like, is your shoulder fucked up? Is this all a ruse because you're mad at the team? Didn't they pay you a ton of money to not play that well? I just, I'm done kind of following the Car Saints saga. Just like, is he on the team or not? But I would say the more and more that you create problems, they're just more, Tyler Schuck is probably start a quarterback and basically gets this year to prove he's a starting quarterback or not, Fair or not. And then depending on how it goes, you're in the quarterback mix next year or you just keep rolling with shuck. I do think it's crazy to draft a player that is older than Brock Purdy and who went to prom with Brock Purdy. Like, it's crazy. It really is. Like there are some things. It's like that visual of him standing in his tux next to Brock Purdy. It's like, wait, they're the same age. It's like, no, yeah, Brock's actually younger. Hasn't Brock been in the NFL for three years to start her? So yeah, and he was a four year college starter. It's like, yeah, that guy was the backup for Justin Herbert. It's like you start doing the math, you're like, this is insane. It's kind of like the Belichick video. It's like, listen, it can't be as crazy as everyone's making it out to be. And then you watch it. You're like, this is insane. Did she really just chime in like that? And he went quiet. Did that. Did I really just see what everyone else saw? This is crazy. Listen, we all do different things for love. I never try to judge a person when it comes to their significant other. But that interaction of. And I don't blame Bill for dating someone 25. It's easy for every old person. Like someone should be dating your own age. Like, yeah, you think Bill's gonna be laying naked with a 73 year old? You're fucking out of your mind. But when you see that, it's like, Jesus, this is. This is crazy. She is running the ship here now. Who knows what's going on when you know, doors close and lights are off. Bill's probably having time of his life and good for him, good for him. But that is something that's going to be hard to unsee. That CBS viral clip of her chiming in, that was crazy. I feel I can't unsee that in my mind given how the media, Stephen A. Shannon, Mel Kuiper, lesser extent, some other people are trying to spin Shadors fall all about race and about some vendetta the league has against Dion. Do you think Shador will come away with the right, accurate lesson from this experience? I really like Shador as a quarterback prospect and as a person. The bravado doesn't bother me. I want him to succeed, but my concern is that he and his camp will not take the proper lesson away from this and instead blame others instead of doing the proper amount of self reflection. People are saying maybe a little bit of humbling was good for him, but I'm not convinced he was humbled. Lol. The night he was drafted, he was at the Dallas club partying and holding a suitcase of money. If I were him and I just lost millions by sliding to round five, I'd be at home, figure out what happened and how I was going to take the preseason by storm. Well, to be humbled, you know, I think we throw that around. Especially older people love younger people when they get humbled. Like ultimately to humble a human being, if most of us lose a bunch of money, like if, if I don't have a podcast tomorrow, like I don't do anything else. I don't have some trust fund, I don't have any money. I'd be, I'd be in trouble. I'd have to figure something out. Like this guy comes from a lot of money. I mean, we just saw the Contract Dion signed, Obviously, they are a very close knit family, and Shador has just made a lot of money the last couple years, so money to this guy is not an issue. He does not go to bed at night like a lot of people in the draft and worry about his financial future. I think that's fair to guess that, especially based on the club after. But in terms of being humbled, I got no clue. It's impossible to psychoanalyze because if you just watch, like, his reaction when he jumped into the pool, you'd be like, I actually thought he handled it pretty well. He just got drafted in the fifth round and he was still excited to be drafted. He thought it was a cool moment. He didn't. Now, you could also have said if he pouted, you would have thought, like, he would have been pissed off. That's cool too. You could nitpick anything he does, and he is by far the most nitpicked player that I can remember in recent memory, Especially when you factor in he's a fifth round guy. I'm fascinated what Dion's ultimately gonna say. If I was gonna guess, I would say that he will not. Like, there's not gonna be a lot of, like, accountability. I would retract my statements or retract the way if I advise Shador to handle that, because there was a video that went viral that Shiloh was screaming at Dion, you screwed this up. And who knows? Maybe he told Shador to act like this. I don't know. I'm kind of fascinated to hear Dion, if he's like, you know, not screwed around, like, being serious about it, what his thoughts on this are, because, I don't know, like, being humbled at the end of the day. Humbled, not humbled. Like, you got to go and you got to compete against NFL guys, and once camp starts, they can't hit you because you have a red jersey on. But while people, like, root for others, NFL training camp is kind of like a dog eat dog. I mean, it's kind of a fucking crazy place. There are 90 guys that show up, you know, depending on your team. There are 30, 40 guys on scholarship, and there are a lot of people competing for starting spots and backup jobs. I mean, it's kind of like, you know, only the strong survive. And Dylan Gabriel and Kenny Pickett, and these guys are desperately trying to make the roster. So I. It's going to be fascinating. All the talk about it is kind of irrelevant. Like, you're either going to pick up the offense, you're either Going to make plays. You're either going to the coaches are going to trust you and they're going to get behind you, or they're not. And you have the opportunity to earn the right to be on the team. And whether that's the third string guy or the backup, I think it's probably borderline impossible without injuries to be the starter week one. But there is 100% possibility for him and Dylan Gabriel are competing and it'll probably start at the third and then they'll probably transition. Those guys kind of working toward the number two. You play well. It's the best part about football is all the BS that's talked about, you know, attitude and race and whatever on these shows the last couple nights. None of that matters when the pads come on and it's 100 degrees outside and Stefanski calls a play into Jim Schwartz, their defensive coordinator and on the other side and they're running the defense like you're either going to complete the passes, make the plays, make the right checks or not. None of the shit that was said from countless people last couple days mean anything. Nothing even his dad can say means anything. But I think like, you know what's crazy is we've had a lot of former players, kids and I was around him a lot like early on in my radio career around Stephen Clay, whose dad's, I mean Clay's dad was kind of a legend for, I don't know, the 80s. Lakers, like played kind of a prominent role as I think he's on their radio team. Michael Thompson and Steph's dad was a longtime NBA player. And these guys just acted like there was a. It was crazy early on before they really blew up to what they've become. They were just really normal and easy to get along with and everyone liked them. And I do feel like most of these guys that grew up rich and dads played professional sports. Look at Patrick Mahomes. They actually feel like the easiest going guys early on because they're most comfortable in this environment. They're like the most secure. And there's this weird part about Shador of like, is he just copying his dad? I would imagine if you could get a lot of. And I mean, I like most kids, I mean, I love the 49ers. And when they signed Deion Sanders, they won a Super bowl in 1994. Deion Sanders was one of the coolest players by far of my childhood. Everyone liked Deion Sanders. And talk, he never shut up. But he was fucking like the most dominant player in the League. He started dancing at like the 30 yard line. No one cared. You know why? Because he was going the other way with the ball in his hands, about to score a touchdown because he had just picked off the quarterback. Like, no one cares about bravado and that type stuff when you back it up. But when you bring a lot of that and people think that you're not as good as the way you carry yourself, people kind of think you're a loser. That's part of it. Everyone's like, people don't like the bravado. Well, yeah, we have never liked big bravado on people that can't back it up. Michael Jordan and Tiger woods and Tom Brady, they can carry themselves kind of however they want. It's much more difficult for Kirk Cousins if he wanted to carry himself like that. Right. Ken Griffey Jr. And Barry Bonds carry themselves a little bit different than the utility infielder. Now. Who knows? Maybe Shador is really good in the NFL. We're going to find out. But I talked about this yesterday. Like, the Big 12 sucks. We got to acknowledge that the Big 12 is not viewed as like big time football. It's kind of a joke. I mean, just look at all the guys that were drafted. If he had done what he did the sec, you couldn't even pretend that he wasn't a first round pick. If he had played the exact same way and produced the same numbers in the sec, you would have had to take him as a first round pick no matter whether you liked his attitude or not. But like, I think a lot of people look at it like you weren't playing any NFL players. This conference is an embarrassment. Like, it's not like you're paying Texas and Oklahoma and A and M anymore. They long gone. So I think there are a lot of different factors and variables, but I think we also have to acknowledge that if you act really, really cocky, right? It's like a girl that carries herself like she's, you know, the hottest thing in the room. If you look at her and she's like, she's a five. Everyone's kind of making fun of her. And I think a lot of NFL people viewed this guy. I honestly, I didn't even ask that much about him. One big regret I've had, you know, I would say the last couple days is not spending more time. I just assumed he was going to be. People just weren't even talking about him. That's what's crazy is we're spending so much time talking about him right now. I actually don't think teams wasted that much time on him over the last couple months. Once they interacted with him, once they're like, yeah, we're not that interested. I think we myself, everyone talking about him, fans are way more invested than the league was and that's all that matters. And I've said this forever, like, I really like doing this and it's cool, we got a big audience and able to make a living off this. And my opinions are just this entertainment, like, my job's not to pick the actual player. So sometimes people come at me like, you know, you're know it all, you know, I'm just giving my opinion on the move, but my job is not to actually make the move, right? So if the Travis Hunter trade up for Gladstone blows up in his face like he was the decision maker that his job is, I, I've been over the years had GMs get mad at me, right? It's like, well, my job and your job are different. You just won five games. You did a shitty job. I'm not acting like, like I would be able to dominate at your job, but you definitely can't dominate at my job, right? Or you can try, Come on, right? So it's like, and everything I say I put my name on you don't necessarily do that. And I think sometimes these worlds kind of collide. Their job is just to get it right. That's the only thing they're consumed with, is getting it right and getting good players. That's all they care about, right? The only thing I care about my job is to try to make entertaining content. If you're listening to this and you're a sales guy, the only thing you probably care about is like hitting your quota that year. The only thing these GMs get the best players possible and the right fits in your organization.

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[Wilmer Valderrama]

It's nostalgia overload as Wilmer Valderrama and Freddie Rodriguez welcome another amigo to their podcast, Dos Amigos. Wilmer's friend and former that 70s show castmate Topher Grace stops by the speakeasy for a two part interview to discuss his career and reminisce about old times.

[Freddie Rodriguez]

We were still in that place of like, what will this experience become? And you go, you're having the best time. But it was like such a perfect golden time.

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Listen to Dos amigos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jeremy Hobson]

We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.

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You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.

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That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.

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Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.

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And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.

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And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

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We should be examining what our government.

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Jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what.

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Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Freddie Prinze Jr.]

Wrestling fans all over the globe, It's Freddie Prinze Jr. And on wrestling With Freddie, we're breaking down every Damn moment from WrestleMania 41. Two nights. Non stop chaos. Legends, surprises, emotions, and some of the best wrestling we've seen coming from wwe. We've got takes, we've got questions, and we have a whole lot of love for what these men and women pulled off at Mania. Tiffany Stratton, she earned her Stripes at WrestleMania. And I don't mean because she won. She bled for her art. And it always felt like to me, after the Attitude era, once a wrestler gets cut and you see real blood coming out of their mouth or real blood coming out of their head, the crowd kind of goes, hey, respect. And they kind of give you that nod, right?

[John Middlekauff]

You go, wow, every one of these.

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Guys is bleeding, bro. That's literally like blood, sweat and tears.

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We're talking Cody, we're talking Ria, Roman, Seth, Tiffany. The future of the business is bright and if you watched Mania and you're still buzzing or if you missed it and want to know what went down, we got you. Listen to this episode of Wrestling with Freddie on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[John Middlekauff]

Is Cam Ward the least talked about number one pick in the history of the draft? I feel kind of badly for him as he deserves some attention and credit for all the work he put in. Also, what are the realistic expectations for the Titans? Could they make a run at the division? I think six or seven wins, but Will Levis also gave away games last year that they probably could have won. Yeah, I mean I think if he's good, I don't see why they couldn't, you know, compete to win seven or eight. Their defense was really good last year at least until like halfway through the season you just run out of juice. Like how am I going to play defense with Will Levis at quarterback? But you know, if offensively he's just a solid player, they could be way more competitive than they were last year and they were competitive early on. Will Levis was just a joke. So I'd be pretty bullish on the Titans and I don't even think it's close. I don't think we'll ever see again a number one overall quarterback feel more relevant. And this is I wasn't watching ESPN on it would have been Thursday night but I guess did Mel Kuiper just go into a rant immediately about Shador Sanders? So I, I, I've seen Cam Ward interviewed a bunch. We had Dickard on his former coach at Washington State seems like a really good guy. I know people with the Titans, they really like him. So if I was a Titans fan I'd be pretty excited. There's nothing more fun than getting a high picket quarterback, knowing he's going to start and also knowing he's got like the ability like a big arm. Look, let's see what we got now. I'd be excited if I was a Titan fan. Playoff seems a little bold, but definitely a competitive I think seven to eight wins is realistic. I'm the biggest Herbert fan you'll meet. But no excuses this year we got to win a playoff game or two. I can't wait to see what year two looks like with Harbaugh. Totally agree. I totally agree. I think it's I think the expectation would be feeling pretty good about by the time the playoffs start. Like we can make the AFC Championship game and I think it's Fair going into the season. Like, can we win this division? Have we shrunk the gap? Can we beat the Chiefs in a regular season game? Can we win this division and get a home playoff game? But luckily the way they play is always going to translate on the road. But winning playoff games 100%. The last three draft locations have been Green Bay, Detroit and KC. Next year's draft will be in Pittsburgh. The last two Super bowl locations have been New Orleans and Vegas. The next three are San Fran, Los Angeles and Atlanta. Is it a deliberate strategy to give Super Bowls to supposedly cool cities and give the draft to blue collar working class cities? Would love to hear your thoughts. Well, you can't have the super bowl in Green Bay or Kansas City, right? I mean, technically you could, but you're not going to play the super bowl in a game potentially negative 1 degree or 10 degrees or snowing or sleet. They don't want to do that. So part of the reason when you look at where the super bowl is played, Arizona, Vegas, Miami, New Orleans, Atlanta, either in domes or warmer weather climates, Los Angeles, San Francisco, they want the sun out if the game's outside forever. When I was a kid, they used to play at Arizona State Stadium, they used to play at Stanford Stadium. Like they want it in a nice climate if it's going to be outdoors. You just can't have the super bowl in Pittsburgh in the first week of February. You can't do it. And they're not going to do it because the other thing is the football wise, technically you could it probably no one wants to watch that type game, right? If it's freezing cold, no one can catch. But it's also about the week. And that week is really about the corporate clients that the NFL has, the people they're in business with, all the different companies. It's like the league's convention. We all, depending on what we do, go to different conventions, right? Or meetings. That's essentially the leagues. So for their business partners, where the combine is like for the teams and the players, the super bowl is really about the business of the NFL and people are more inclined to, I would just say go to the places where they have it because it's nice weather. And I think that they really just give the draft two places that are never going to get Super Bowls. So I, I think that's why they're doing it. I don't think it's necessarily about blue collar cities. I mean if Green Bay was beautiful in the spring, I think they would have, I, I also don't think I've never been there. But do they have the infrastructure to. For hotels and stuff? For fans? I. I think that's. That plays a part. But it's 95% the weather. Last question. As a Titans fan, I probably am a little biased, but I just find it crazy how little coverage Cam is getting. I totally get Shador is a Sanders, and him slipping in the draft is going to dominate the coverage. But then I see more coverage on Jalen Milroe and Dylan Gabriel and try to understand why it feels like Cam is the least talked about. Well, the reason that Jalen Milroe and Dylan Gabriel, when they get drafted, get so much more discussion than Cam is because they're directly connected now to Shador, because they are part of the story of guys drafted above him. So if they are independent and have nothing to do with Shador, we wouldn't spend any time on them either. Which, again, like, I'm not proud of this, but this is one of the biggest stories in the history of the draft. It really is. Because sometimes, like, you think about Tebow, that went in the twenties, you think about Roger, that went in the twenties, you think about when Jordan Love was taken to the packers with Aaron Rodgers was a huge story. There's usually not an individual like this that goes round after round after round that has the fame of this individual. It's led by his dad, who's, I would say Deion Sanders is just on the short list of famous players in the history of the sport. And he's added to that, right? He's. He was a big media star once his career ended. He then became a college coach. He coached his son. It. You just. It's like a. It's like a movie script how all the different angles here, all the different guys Dion knows and has played with, he had been started to get rumored, I would say, over the last year to SEC schools, then even the NFL. His son, fair or not, through the media hype, was discussed with Cam Ward throughout the season as the best quarterbacks. And then once the process started, clearly, Cam, I mean, I don't think the Titans deliberated much on this decision for the last couple months, but yeah, it sucks now. Part of it, you know, Jags fans sometimes fire into my DMs and get mad at me, say I'm too dismissive of the organization. There's something about the division that is like you guys from a rating standpoint and importance of the league standpoint. If the Dallas Cowboys had had the number one pick and not The Titans, and they had drafted Cam Ward. I do think it would have been a little different, but let's face it, the lead up to the draft would have been like, do they take Deion Sanders, kid? So Cam was just in one of those positions. Me personally, like, my personality, especially at a young age, I would kind of enjoy it. It's like I kind of get to fly under the radar a little bit. No, everyone's kind of leaving me alone. I just have to impress the people I have to impress. But I don't have to turn on television every day and they're talking about how am I going to be a bust. Am I going to be like these other former Titans quarterbacks that were drafted high, like Mariota and Vince Young and Jake Locker that failed? So I actually think he's in a pretty good spot in terms of the pressure, the outside pressure, clearly the media pressure, and just the overall pressure. Like, think about going into training camp. He is. He is not going to be talked about. I mean, it's not even going to be close. Shador is going to be the most talked about rookie quarterback in training camp. Every pass he throws in practice will go viral on Twitter and Instagram. I would say anytime that, like, hey, Jalen Milroe, he's getting some reps with the Twos. It's like they're going to have packages for Jalen Milroe. He'll get talked about a lot. So I, in a weird way, Cam Ward is the number one overall pick. Gets the distinction of I was the first pick in the NFL draft. Two, I make the most money of every guy drafted. Three, I'm going to be the immediate starter. Like, I ain't battling anyone for the job. It's mine and no one's talking about me. So I think he's. He's in a pretty good spot. Other than that, I think I said Tez Walker to Colin and Colin looked at me kind of weird. It was the wide receiver from Oregon who's like 150 pounds, who bo Nix, his family adopted. They played high school football together. And then who transferred to Oregon a couple years ago was Ted Johnson. Tez Johnson, who I liked and who is a good, good deep threat. He's just skinny, which I'm jealous. I wish I had his waistline, but I actually kind of like that pick in the seventh round. But I misspoke a couple days ago when I was on with Colin and said he was Tez Walker. It feels like a movie character or something, but adios. Thanks for chiming in and we will talk soon. The volume.

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[Wilmer Valderrama]

It's nostalgia overload as Wilmer Valderrama and Freddie Rodriguez welcome another amigo to their podcast, Dos Amigos. Wilmer's friend and former that's 1970's show castmate Topher Grace stops by the speakeasy for a two part interview to discuss his career and reminisce about old times.

[Freddie Rodriguez]

We were still in that place of like, what will this experience become? And you go, you're having the best time. But it was like such a perfect golden time.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

Listen to Dos amigos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jeremy Hobson]

We live in a divided country and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Freddie Prinze Jr.]

What's up Frederation? It's Freddie Prinze Jr. And wrestling with Freddie is back and we're going all in on WrestleMania 41. From the unpredictable to jaw dropping finishes, this year's mania might have just changed everything. By the way, almost all the matches that we saw looked like real fights. I thought like they were like, yo, we're going hard today, tomorrow we're gonna hurt, but we're going hard today because it was like beast mode times 10 out there. Listen to this episode of Wrestling with Freddy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.