← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
3 & Out - Future of the Raiders, 49ers make coaching changes, Kauff on Campus
01:22:35
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- [00:00]
Jon Stewart
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- [00:37]
Colin Cowherd
Back at the Daily show and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondence and contributors, and with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:15]
Jon Stewart
The Volume.
- [01:29]
John Middlekauff
What is going everybody? How are we doing? John Middlekoff three and Out Podcast hopefully everyone's doing well. I thought we'd do a little rapid fire. Some NFL stories. Belichick Raiders, Shanahan fires DC Mike McDaniel says fines do not work for keeping people late to meetings. Some quick thoughts on Tiger woods the simulator. I watched that while I was eating dinner last night. Couple quick thoughts people have asked. Jackson will join us. We'll talk a little college football. He's got a big Notre Dame game though. I kind of like Penn State in that game. So we got a playoff game Thursday, got a playoff game Friday as well as subscribe to the podcast. If you listen on Collins, subscribe to the YouTube page. All of our contents up there as well. We'll have reaction videos basically Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday night, Monday night. A lot of football coming up, so buckle up. But before we dive into any football or sports, I do just want to say anyone, obviously if you're directly impacted by the fire, you are probably not listening to this podcast. I know we have a big presence, you know, listenership in Southern California and if you are not impacted, I'm sure you know people. We all do. I got a text message in the middle of the day today that Maria's aunt, she's my fiance. Her not the aunt but Maria lives in Pasadena. Had to evacuate last night right around 7 or 8 o'clock. Had to re evacuate from where she was at 4 in the morning and she also got a text in the middle of the night where she leaned over that one of her best friend's husbands, who we were just with a couple weeks ago during Christmas, who is a San Francisco firefighter, got a call in the middle of the night, basically, get ready, come on in, we're rolling down south. And honestly, stuff like that just goes, man. I mean, it just shows you these people that when there is danger and people, the first responders in any of these situations that run into danger while us just civilians run away from it, it really just tears at your heart because these people will do anything to save people's lives that they don't know. You know, Corey doesn't even live down there. He's just, he's a Northern California firefighter. But he has so much experience of doing stuff up north. And it honestly makes me question myself personally. Like, God, I have such a trivial role in society. Just being a podcaster, you know, this guy's been in the Navy, was in, you know, Navy Seals training. Now he's firefighter saving. Last year he got a medal honor for saving a police officer's life who during a storm at a tree fall on him. He actually was just randomly driving by on an off day, had no skills and saved the guy's life. And it just, it just tears at your heart. Then you see the visuals of this fire. I mean, anytime I've never been around 100 mile an hour winds, it's like, it's like fire, tornado. And you text people that know that area, I don't know LA that well, but they're just giving you updates of like, yes, Pasadena's done, Santa Monica is in trouble. My house is done. Just like your house is done. Yeah, it does not exist. Just like, holy shit. And you know, see the visuals of the cars, People just leave their cars on the side of the road and start. Except it's not and it's real. And this group of firefighters and I imagine now military personnel and doing everything humanly possible to slow something down that, let's face it, it's probably not slow down a bull when there are 100 mile an hour winds and it just, there's not no stopping that. There's moving like five football fields every 30 seconds. Like, is that. The speed in which it's operating is insane. But these first responders, when they get the call of duty, it's pack on up, let's lock and load and let's go, let's go help. And when literally everyone else is running away to safety, they're running into it. So that is just. It just, it just hurts your heart seeing these videos of these people that are going to have their lives turned upside down. And obviously, as long as you survive and have your health, you and your family, you can eventually replace a house and the material things, but who knows what the overall damage is going to be when it comes to humans, let alone, clearly the structures that are being burned down at just what looks like a historic rapid rate. So let's, let's try to transition to football. But again, anyone that knows people, has family involved, knows people involved with the fire department. It's. We're all. We're all on their team and we're thinking about them. And it's just for us West Coasters that know a lot of people, you know, in the general area, it's tough, man. It really is. So I'm thinking about everybody that's involved. If anyone's listening, that's down there, and hopefully you and your family can just get the hell out of there. We'll start with the Raiders, and yesterday we talked about the situation with Mark Davis, and I saw a story today how, you know, in five or six years, he kind of wants to hand the organization off. The Tom Brady kind of what I was alluding to. And maybe Tom's already told him because of, like, the age of his children, not right now, but maybe in like four or five years after he banks a much more money from. From fox, that he would be willing to kind of pivot, maybe take over the Raiders. So maybe it's not an option for him to be the lead dog now, like I suggested. But clearly he's playing a major, major role as a consultant for Mark Davis, who admitted, like, my dad was a football guy, he was a coach, he was a gm. He knew football. I'm not a football guy. So I need that guy in my life, and Tom Brady's now that guy in my life. And I don't think it's random that Tom and those people reached out to Belichick, but I also think Belichick and this is a story that immediately goes viral, like, oh, he's going to leave North Carolina. You think Belichick a month ago when he was kind of going through the lists of, like, is anyone going to contact me? What jobs are going to be open? Should I take this North Carolina job? Didn't consider the Raiders his, I would say, most successful assistant coach protege, not as a head coach, but under him. Josh McDaniels was their coach. Mike Lombardi son Mick was on his staff. They took coordinators and other position coaches from the Patriots. Belichick understands the inner workings of that organization. Even if that was pre Tom Brady, it's pretty clear not much has changed. I also think they don't have a quarterback and they don't really have a path to one. So when I read Diana Rossini, like, yeah, he doesn't have that much interest because he knew a month ago that this job was going to be opened and that, you know, the guy he's most associated with when it comes to football is now there and surely would pick up the phone and give Bill a buzz. Who knows? Maybe they talked about it a month ago, like, yeah, I'm not taking the Raiders job because one, if you're Bill, like, it could go really poorly. You're in a division with great head coaches. You have no quarterback. You're not drafted in the top five. It's not a great quarterback draft. There aren't many free agent options. And we saw Bill when Tom Brady left, and they were just kind of in quarterback hell. It did not go well. And I think he. My educated guess would be that he thought this one through a month ago about specifically this team, and would he be interested. He has too many inside sources and too much knowledge of everything that's gone on in that building for the last four or five years. To have no interest is not surprising. Kyle Shanahan fired his defensive coordinator, and it did not go well. Now he did. The Classic, really likes the guy, fires him and is like, well, you could be our special teams coordinator. We still want you to be the defensive coordinator. We just. We can't have you playing that role because that role is more important. We'll let you be the special teams coordinator. You can stay if you want, which is like, so I'm not good enough for you. You want me to stay because you like me personally? Always a weird situation. I would imagine. The guy eventually leaves to another staff. But I don't blame them. Last offseason for firing Steve Wilkes.
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Jon Stewart
Why?
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John Middlekauff
Because their two best players, Nick Bosa and Fred Warner, did not believe in the guy. Then they got into the position where they needed a defensive coordinator and they didn't have many options. And the guy he really wanted last year, Jeff Ulbricht, he couldn't get. And guys like Robert Sala were not available. So now he looks at the landscape and he goes, well, Sorensen's not good enough. And I got Robert Sala. I got guys like Lou Amaruno just sitting out there, let alone Jeff Ulbricht is just available. So, yeah, we're going to pivot. And here's a reality. Kyle Shanahan, when he took the job, was like infatuated with the Pete Carroll, Dan Quinn, Gus Bradley scheme. Partly, I think, because he had gone gone against it over the years as an offensive coordinator and as the Falcons offensive coordinator when Dan was on the staff, went up against it every day in practice, so he thought highly of it. And they went all in on the scheme in terms of zone defense with the DBs, and all in on the pass rush, which I'm never again going all in on the pass rush. But things have changed and I think it's fair to say that, like, you can't just run that defense anymore. You have to have other pitches. You can't just throw the fastball every single time and expect to get the same results when you don't have all time great players. Part of Seattle's defense in its heyday was they had Richard Sherman, hall of Fame corner. They had Earl Thomas, hall of Fame level safety. They had Cam Chancellor, one of the hardest hitting DBs you've ever seen. They had Bobby Wagner, hall of Fame linebacker. They had K.J. wright, who would break you in half. And then they had countless pass rushers all over the place. They could rush you inside, they could rush you outside. Also, those guys could play the run. And clearly their two linebackers could tackle. In the heyday of the Niners, they had the same thing. They were good on every level. Well, some Niner defense is not going to be as good. So you got to be multiple. And you can't just expect we're going like wide nines and we're just rushing the passer well, then we're going to run it right down your throat. And if we get a body on Fred Warner, we're getting 10 yards. So I think he had to look in the mirror and go, this isn't good enough. We got to pivot. And I saw a story today from Josina Anderson that they're all in on Robert Sala. Like, I think the 49ers got to think a little bit outside the box. Rehiring Robert Sala, who is a good defensive coordinator, but does something very, very specific is what you used to like. Well, your personnel might not be the same anymore. And maybe it's smarter to kind of think a little differently and challenge yourself, because hiring Robert Sala is like what Belichick always did. Kept hiring the same guys because they were the guys he knows and it works as long as you got Tom Brady leading the charge with you. But if you don't, and the 49ers definitely do not like, I would entertain everyone on the open market. Gus Bradley would not be hireable. I would definitely interview Lou Amaruno, who just got fired from the Cincinnati Bengals, who just a couple years ago was viewed as one of the best defensive coordinators in the league. So. And I would imagine that's what the 49ers do. And if they hire Brandon Staley, I might just quit them as a team. Now, big picture, we can argue till we're blue in the face and we eventually will whenever the numbers come out, but the 49ers are signing Brock Purdy. Brock Purdy is going to get a long term contract from the 49ers. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. And I don't know what the number is going to be. We can only wait to see. Could be $140 million, could be $200 million. I am prepared for anything. But the one thing I do know, and they reiterate it when John lynch and Kyle Shanahan talked today, Brock Purdy is going to sign a contract with the 49ers. So with that just being a fact, and we could argue when the numbers come out, is it crazy or is it not? But he's going to be the quarterback and for him to be a high end player for the team as well is this is not Patrick Mahomes, this is not Josh Allen, this is not Lamar Jackson. He's never going to be able to put the team on his back. He can play well when he's loaded up with other players. And luckily the 49ers have the 11th pick in the draft. And when you have a high pick, that also means you have a high pick in the next round, pick 43. The 49ers, for whatever reason, crush the third day of the draft. It feels like they get half their starters starting in the fourth round through the seventh round. But high in the draft, they have been very, very hit or miss. If they want to sustain this team, which is very old and highly priced, they're going to have to hit a couple home runs in the first three rounds. Whether that's the first round pick, the second round pick and not the third round pick, whether that's the second round pick and the third round pick, however you get there. But of those top three picks, which is pick 11, pick 43, and I think pick 73 or 75, you're going to have to get two impact starters with those picks. No if, ands or buts about it. Because not only is it a position you haven't been in a long time because you've been winning, you've been picking 30 or 31. But this is the best way to get high impact players for cheap. And if you tell me the 49ers are going to sustain winning after this season, right, like starting next season and for the next several years with Brock Purdy under a big contract, I will say that they have a massive, massive impactful draft. If you tell me this draft doesn't go well, I would probably tell you it's the beginning of the end for Kyle Shanahan because you don't get these opportunities too often. And once you've got a highly priced quarterback, you know, the Bills, the Ravens, the Chiefs, like they never get these opportunities. Like they paid their guys and they just kept winning big and they just kept drafting somewhere between 25 and 32. Now if you gave them high picks, I think based on their history, you'd feel pretty confident they would hit some home runs. And the 49ers, for whatever reason, beside when it's late in their lap like Nick Bosa, which I'm sorry, you don't get that much credit for when you draft number two. They once famously had the 13th overall pick when they traded for DeForest, they traded DeForest Buckner to the Colts. They could have taken Tristan Worfs, they traded back a pick, Jason Light took Worfs and they took Javon Kinlaw. That was a disaster. And obviously the Trey Lance thing derailed first round picks for essentially three straight years because Trey Lance is an all time bust. I mean he's, he's barely a third stringer in the NFL four years into his career and he was the third overall pick. And then it cost them first round picks the next two years. So massive, massive off season for the 49ers. And this is why you get paid the big bucks. You got to make these picks count because you hit on two out of three of these guys, all of a sudden you get, you know, an extra Debo Samuel, an extra Fred Warner, an extra Trent Williams. Like this is your opportunity for shitty as the season was. And 6 and 11, when you have super bowl expectations, doesn't get much worse. But these next couple months to me are going to define 25, 26 and 27 NFL playoffs. We're talking about the NFL playoffs. You bet we are. Get in on the action at DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NFL. 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- [18:49]
NPR Host
Experiencing the news each day can feel like a journey with up first from NPR, though it doesn't have to be. Welcome to 15 Easy Minutes of breaking news, clarity on international and national affairs, and a casual tone that you can take in with breakfast. Begin your day informed, ready and refreshed. Begin your day with Up First. Subscribe to Up first from NPR on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [19:21]
John Middlekauff
Mike McDaniel made some comments yesterday essentially saying that the fine system that the NFL implements, right? You could find people for all sorts of stuff, wearing the wrong socks to practice to showing up late and showing up late for most of us, right, on a job with our significant others, with our friends, you know, get you people ribbing you or whatever. But if you have something really, really important to your wife, to your parents, to a business partner, to your boss, you would never be late. And I would say most high level people in serious situations, whether it personal or professional, are on time. Even people that you would say are consistently late to most things when they take something seriously, they will be on time. And I think if you looked at like the Chiefs, the Harbaugh brothers, I'd say Tomlin. But the Steelers take so many knuckleheads that it's been proven over the years that they deal with a lot of stuff. And it's not a reflection of Tomlin. It's more of a reflection of the guys they draft. But I would say Sean McVeigh, I'd say Kyle Shanahan. It's human nature. Every once in a while, something's gonna happen. You might be late. It's literally happened to everybody. Vince Lombardi was probably late to a meeting once in his life. But if you tell me that fines aren't working and consistently we had these issues. Shane Steichen talked about this a couple weeks ago. That then is a reflection of Mike McDaniel and Shane Steichen. Because eventually, if a guy just shows up late over and over, they don't respect you. Because any human being I respect, personally or professionally, if it is a serious meeting, I am not showing up five minutes late. I would say that's one of the, if not the greatest middle finger of my level of viewing importance of your time. I don't care. And when you get a situation like football that is so strict in terms of its time requirements, at the beginning of a week, all these players get a mapped out some minute by minute, some 10, minute by minute, some hour by hour, where you're supposed to be at what time, when and where all these guys know. It's very militaristic that way. And when I see that Mike McDaniel and Shane Steichen are having issues like, there is no disputing that Mike McDaniel and Shane Steichen are smart coaches. They know what they're doing with the pen and a whiteboard. X's and O's. They can scheme and draw guys open, but I don't know if players respect them. I don't see how you could say players do respect them. Because do you think people would show up over and listen, here's the fine system. If I make $20 million and let's say the fines are eight grand or ten grand, like the end of the day, it's. The money's irrelevant to me. I could show up late all the time. Keep finding me. That's not going to do anything to my bank account. It's not about the money. It's about the level of respect and the view that. I view what you're saying as important to help me out. I respect you, period, point blank, end of story. And I think that would be pretty concerning, obviously the Colts fans that that dirty laundry is well aired. But to hear Mike McDaniel talk about it being like, yeah, don't these fines just aren't working. Like, bro, that's not a system failure. That's a you problem. And I don't think you fake being a tough guy. I don't think you fake being someone. I don't want to let that guy down. I don't want to disappoint that guy. And listen, I don't care who you are. Every coach has dealt with problems. Every coach has had an issue with a player. Hell, I saw, when I was with the Eagles, I saw Jean Jackson get suspended. He was really mad over his contract. And one practice, like, kicked the ball during punt over the fence and got kicked out of practice. Listen to the way desean talks about Andy and Andy talks about Deshaun. Like, you can butt heads with someone. It doesn't mean you still don't respect them. And separate from the business side. Like, hey, when you tell me to, the meeting's gonna be at 8:30, or the meeting's gonna be at noon, or the meeting's gonna be at 4 in the afternoon. I'm gonna be there five minutes early. This isn't about Tom Coughlin time. Like, being early is actually late. Just about the level of respect that I would say most coaches worth their salt get from their players. Can you imagine people showing up late consistently to Dan Campbell's meetings? It just would not be tolerated. You would look like an idiot. So I think the Dolphins have a big, big problem. And I think it starts with the head coach. Last but not least for those of you that checked out the tgl, the simulated golf with. With Tiger and Rory, I mean, they run it, they didn't actually play, but I was like, you know what? Nothing else going on Tuesday night. I'll check it out. My big takeaway is, obviously the screen is really cool. Anyone who's ever hit golf balls into a simulator, it's pretty cool because especially if you have options like, hey, play Pebble Beach. You play any course you want. Clearly, on this one they made up courses and it's just cool to watch. And the ability to, like, change the green with the, you know, stuff underneath the green on the turf, and then putting and chipping, the whole thing. I give Tiger Woods a lot of credit because most businesses in situations like this, it's hard to think outside the box. Most people are going to be critical, but, like, you watch for five minutes, you go, yeah, I kind of get it. I get why they took a big swing on this. And then when you also factor in that like, this can be used for corporations to use. And obviously in golf, they're so directly correlated, like NASCAR with their sponsors. There's a lot of crossover that way. And my overall takeaway is, yeah, the first one was pretty entertaining. Now I would say I'm on the high end of golf consumers. Like, ultimately, I didn't care who won. Ultimately, after like 30 minutes, I'm like, well, it's just kind of the same thing over and over. I don't necessarily. And I'm not trying to be a hater. I don't necessarily know it's going to be sustainable. I haven't seen any of the television ratings today. I think my main takeaway and anyone watching it that plays golf would go, I would love to hit balls there. That's all I kept thinking, I would love to hit ball balls there. And clearly, the screen which most projection screens where people that have, like, home theaters or the golf simulator, this screen for those who didn't see, is 24 times the size of a standard projection screen. It is huge. And on tv, when they play a hole, it. That's the coolest part to me. When they're hitting either the drives or the fairway shots, you know, the chipping, they actually chip and putt on this green that they can simulate and make, you know, basically change the elevations and the contour of the green, which is cool, but they just putting and chipping on the same thing just over and over and over. I don't necessarily know. I would probably bet against its staying power. Now, Tiger is a big deal, and he's playing, I think, next Tuesday, or maybe it's next Monday after the Monday Night Football game. I would guess a decent amount of people just stay on the football game and watch Tiger hit some balls, but you remove him. For the casual sports fan, I don't know. The one thing I would say that I think they're on to something the youth really likes. Anyone with younger children knows that people. It's very popular to watch others play video games, which is something that didn't exist in my generation. You just played video games now. When I was growing up, we didn't have YouTube or whatever, but it's obviously very, very popular right now. To Twitch is massive to watch others play video games. And there's an element of this that I would say parallels that a little bit with the video element, that there's a. It feels a little video gamey, which I think can be a positive Now. They can still tweak things and kind of add things I think there's only so much you can do and unless Tigers playing every single week separated from this initial pop. It'll be interesting how much longevity this thing has though. Like golf's a niche sport and to get put on ESPN in a prime time spot is pretty valuable. And I think a lot of random people that the popularity of just a civilians playing golf has really, really grown over the last three or four years. More people just go to the driving range, more people play at local munis than ever before. So maybe you are more inclined to watch that. It's just kind of fun. It's light, it's loose. Everyone's smiling. Hard to tell because they're not actually wearing uniforms. They're just wearing similar colors but with their own sponsor. So we got some, some strides to make there. But I would say overall there's no disputing that. I would say it was pretty successful. And I think there are definitely way more cool elements to this than a bunch of negative stuff surrounding it. I think if you're just being realistic, you go, is this thing going to be around for years? The actual building that they built 100% will. And that has. I mean, they could charge, I mean, I don't even know how much an hour for just someone to hit balls in the middle of the day when the thing's empty. They could charge a ton to these sponsors to host events there. So the actual venue has value. The actual league of all these guys hitting into a screen, hitting out of actual sand onto a turf green, how much staying power that has. I think you could flip a coin. If you told me this thing lasts two years, believe it. If you told me this thing lasts five years, I'd probably be. I would say it probably has a little shorter shelf life than. It's just going to be some booming business, though I'm rooting for it to succeed because the more I would say hip and younger generation and just make golf a little more mainstream that you can get, the better. So props to Tiger and Rory for taking a big swing here.
- [30:42]
NPR Host
Experiencing the news each day can feel like a journey with up first from NPR, though it doesn't have to be. Welcome to 15 Easy Minutes of breaking news, clarity on international and national affairs, and a casual tone that you can take in with breakfast. Begin your day informed, ready and refreshed. Begin your day with Up First. Subscribe to Up first from NPR on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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John Middlekauff
Okay, it's finally here. It. It crossed my mind within the last couple days that typically the semifinals would have already been played and we would be coming down the home stretch of playing the national championship on a Monday, which has been thrown for a loop a little bit because the NFL has expanded their playoffs and now they have. They have a Monday Night Football game on wild card weekend. So I'm still trying to get used to the ebb and flow of everything, but I had to get my guy Jackson on the horn because as recording this, we're a little over 24 hours away from his Notre Dame Irish. And I'm not going to lie, Jackson. I'm tempted to place a very, very large wager on Penn State because I don't understand, obviously college is different than the NFL that they can be very secretive about Abdul Carter's injury. And we can just. Let's just assume as we record this day, he doesn't play, but Notre Dame's missing a star defensive lineman. And I just think the quarterback, you know, all these bowl games, once you get away from that first round where they play at home, are in controlled, neutral environment, the better passing quarterback in the better passing, explosive attack is at Penn State. Like, you could argue that these teams are the same. Okay. I'd give the slight independence. I can't. I don't quite understand how they're favored. I mean, do you feel that your squad is better than my bald brother, James Franklin, the Penn State Nittany Lions?
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Jon Stewart
I do. I do. Because I think it's not a lot of flashy names, right? When you go from Notre Dame's perspective, all those guys you mentioned, the D line will probably go third, fourth round, not real flashy. Linebackers Xavier Watts and the safety is. The secondary they have, I think is one of the best and most underrated in the country. But to your point about Abdul Carter, I think it's a big deal if he doesn't play because you saw at some points that Boise State was able to stretch out on the outside and get some of those first downs. And I think with Rally Leonard, that's what he likes to do. And I was kind of shocked Raleigh Leonard was able to speed past some of those Georgia defenders. And I feel like Abdul Carter is one of those guys where, I don't know, you think he runs a 4, 4, 45 when it comes to the combine that he could catch up to Riley. So I think it's a big deal. I do think they match up pretty well.
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John Middlekauff
I just.
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Jon Stewart
The only thing I worry about Penn State's passing attack is if Al golden figures Out a way. And they're, they've been prone to be bad against tight ends recently, even with Georgia too. Outside of some miscommunication, they could have had a touchdown late in that 4th and 2. I do worry about Tyler Warren. I don't know if he's going to go Xavier Watts just straight up one on one. Are they going to double bright rack at him? Because outside of that, they don't have a whole lot of receivers. So I know Drew Allers got a big arm, you know, talented quarterback, could go number one. But if you can lock down Warren, excluding that they, you know, get Allen and Singleton involved in the passing game too. I don't know if the receivers for Penn State can hold up against, you know, Notre Dame secondary.
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John Middlekauff
Yeah, I think, you know, I probably got a lot of people listening that definitely, that know these rosters well, but probably a lot that don't. I mean, Abdul Carter and for those that might have turned in really for the first time to lock in on Penn State would have been that game against Boise. And he got hurt really early on though he did have that one pass rush where he kind of dropped the hoop. He's, I mean, he's, he's Micah Parsons, you know, I mean, that's that type player, versatility, pass rush. But he, you've seen him. If you watch them during the season, if he's off the line of scrimmage and they run like a quick screen, he can run outside, like laterally down the side. I mean, he's a freak. And you know, I, I think if this was an NFL game, you know, Al golden obviously is a famous name because he's coached at Miami and Cuddle Necky. Is that how you say the, the offense? I think it's cold.
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Jon Stewart
Ol Necky. Yeah. I mean, he came from Kansas first year.
- [35:11]
John Middlekauff
Yeah, he's. He's definitely one of, I would say in college football circles, one of the star coordinators are viewed as, you know, just a guy that feels inevitable to be, be a head coach in a Power 4 program. I would say in the next, obviously not this cycle, but probably the next cycle. Especially if Aller were to return, which I still think is. I was thinking about that today. I mean, they're probably a win away if he throws two or three touchdowns and beats Notre Dame, if you get to the national championship. I think he would solidify himself as a top 10, top 15 pick. So it would just be like, does he want to just play and hang out in college like Leiner again or does he Want to, you know, take his talents, but the coordinator matchup of golden and Kyle Mackie is, that's his, that's, that's freaking awesome. I mean if this, it'd be like Flores against Kyle Shanahan, right? Or Aaron Glenn against Kevin O'Connor. Like it's, it's a bright lights college football name like we've seen forever with the Sabins and the Kirby's when they take on big time offensive coordinators. But I'm really, really excited to watch that. I mean, at the end of the day, this is, this is an old school, I mean these, these programs, I mean, shit, you're so young. But even before my kind of got into sports in the mid-90s, I think in like the 80s, in the heyday of Lou Holtz and Joe Paterno, this was one of the biggest rivalries in, in college sports, in any, you know, basketball or, or football. But I, I think this is on the short list of like, you know, Florida State, Miami in their heydays playing each other. Now they were conference foes, but I would say Penn State and Notre Dame I think is a pretty, you know, for older people. Kind of had like an NFL game feel in the, in the 80s with Lou and Paterno and just the, I mean the countless NFL players on both teams. I mean these were two of the powerhouse programs. You know, way back in the day. They were really kind of like an Alabama or Georgia as, as football was really taken off in like the 70s and 80s, just naturally becoming, you know, the equal of, of baseball. And now what it's become, you know, it's, it became a little tougher for them. But it's cool to see this. I mean it's a big time, bright lights, brand matchup. I mean, but all four of these teams, it's, it's. I, they would have been. If you pick eight teams that you would want in the final four, these would have been, I mean Ohio State, Notre Dame would have been top two or three picks, but I think Penn State wouldn't have been far behind Texas, who would have been a top five pick as well.
- [37:41]
Jon Stewart
What do you think changed for you about your perspective on Penn State? Was it that game after Ohio State when they lost it, the Oregon Big Ten championship? Like what kind of changed your perspective? Because you've been on saying that this Penn State team could win it all for about a month now and they progressively look good and people go out there and say, oh, they've only played smu, they played Boise State. But They've looked, you know, like, like a national championship type of team. I guess this is their biggest, you know, stage since, or the best team they've played. But what's changed your perspective from I guess the beginning of the season to now about Penn State?
- [38:15]
John Middlekauff
Well, I think one thing I've learned working in football and then doing this and seeing it from a little bit like more of like a 20,000 foot view is you cannot win big in the pros or, you know, and I would say this is basically pros light in the final four. Now, the college football player, if you don't have a top end defense. So you look at all four of these teams, they all got NFL guys all over on defense. No different, the NFL. The Chiefs have been winning Super Bowls. Defense, the Ravens, conference championship defense, the 49ers over the years. The Rams, like, you got to have a good defense. Then it's like, okay, we all got sweet defenses. Well, who's your quarterback? And I think you usually just lean to the team with the better quarterback. And I think Drew Aller watching that USC game, I actually didn't watch it live, so I had to go back and watch the highlights of kind of that historic comeback. Right. I mean, that was, that was honestly a loss for Lincoln Riley that derailed their season. And you watching these highlights, you know, Warren had, I, I think his final numbers were like 17 of 200. It was crazy. It was like one of the lines of the year. But Aller made some plays in that game that were like, man, this was really, really impressive. And then I think that the conference championship game against Oregon and they, you know, they took some early shots and they were down, but he, he made some big time plays in that game. And I just went, I just like this quarterback. They have good running backs, so does Notre Dame. So I would say those two cancel it out. Assuming Love again, like Abdul Carter, we good on that knee injury. That's a little concerning, isn't it?
- [39:48]
Jon Stewart
It is a little concerning. That was one of my other questions I had, was who was at a bigger disadvantage. Notre Dame without Jeremiah Love or, you know, Penn State without Abdul Carter. Because Jeremiah Love, although they've got Jadarion Price, he's kind of that downhill running back. He's not that explosive guy like Jeremiah Love. Jeremiah Love is kind of that one of a kind type of running back. And same with Abdul Carter. Like you can replace him with somebody, but he's not going to show you that same production as two of those guys. And J. Love's concerning too because it's not his same ankle, it's a knee. So now it's like, oh great. Now we got to deal with the knee and ankle on the same leg.
- [40:20]
John Middlekauff
See. So that's, I would say both teams very dependent on those two guys. But the defense can still function without car. It's not as dominant, but they still have a ton of other NFL guys. Your guys offense is pretty predicated on handing that guy the ball. I mean his, his play against Indiana kind of, you know, opened the floodgates and I, I mean it's got to be the longest play so far from scrimmage in these playoffs. What was it? It was technically 98 yards, but he, he got the handoff like three or three yards. 103, 104.
- [40:52]
Jon Stewart
Yeah, yeah.
- [40:53]
John Middlekauff
And he was. And Indiana's defense is not their problem. Like they were good on defense. Turns out their quarterback do you see, played the whole season with like an ACL injury. Pretty crazy. But I, so I would say obviously enormous, somewhat cancel each other out. But given that how important he is to your offense and how running the ball is such a big deal, it'd be pretty concerning like losing him. Assuming like you tell me they're both out. I believe you. That's the hard part about college. With these injuries you never. They could both easily play and look okay and they could both just be like pregame warmups and then not able to go or do one of those. What was the Tennessee's running backs, you know, he, he like kind of started, then he didn't play. It's just very, it's very secretive. So I, I just lean like the quarterback passing the ball, right. If they both come out. Drew Allers a first round pick and your guy just is not. And there's nothing wrong. I mean he still might go third, fourth round is like some project, you know, compete to be a backup. But that's, that's a pretty big difference if one guy's slinging the ball like Riley Leonard is not. Like you guys win a lot of games with him throwing like Jimmy G lines, right? Like 80 yards, 110 yards. And Penn State like when they're looking good, I mean their guys slinging it a little bit and I mean you could argue the best player on their team not named a dual. Carter is the tight end and he has gone to a different level as they've gotten out of the cold and into these controlled environments. And that's what this is going to be. So listen, it's just It's a fantastic. I mean, James Franklin's a polarizing guy, but there's no disputing. He's an elite recruiter and he was pre nil, post nil. He's great at it and I would say motivate, like. And one thing I respect about him is teams have underachieved, but no one's ever called his teams like soft. They just haven't like one big games. But everyone goes, God, Penn State's a very physical team and he's an offensive guy. Right. Former quarterback makes sense. Notre Dame, your guy is a former linebacker, that they're really tough and physical. So I think they actually, these teams are very, very similar. It's why I would probably take the underdog, whoever, you know, was a one or two point underdog. But I just, I've liked Penn State and I'm just going to, I'm going to keep rolling in it this game. Whoever wins this game would be playing with a lot of house money. I mean, if I would have told Notre Dame fans or Penn State fans, even if you end UP losing by 20 to Ohio State, that you were in the national championship game and he won three playoff games. I mean, you talk about a successful, what an incredible year for those two guys, right?
- [43:28]
Jon Stewart
That's what's so cool about the 12 team playoff. I mean, Penn State, there was some stat that they would make eight or nine out of the last 10 or 12 playoffs if it were to be a 12 team playoff. And then for Notre Dame, you lose to NIU most years, 99.9% of the years you're not making the 14 playoff. But doesn't this game to you seem like it's going to be like that Georgia game where both teams just could try to control the line of scrimmage, battle the trenches, and it's only a matter of team or I guess which team either, you know, botches a punt, blocks a punt.
- [43:58]
John Middlekauff
Yeah.
- [43:58]
Jon Stewart
Throws interception, fumbles or something like that. It just feels like it's going to be the same thing like we saw against Georgia. And that's one thing I do give Notre Dame a lot of credit is they have capitalized all season on turnovers. And you know, Drew Aller at sometimes is prone to throw an interception or two or maybe even fumble like we saw against Boise State. That's one thing I kind of lean towards Notre Dame, but again, Riley Leonard's been shown that he could do the exact same.
- [44:22]
John Middlekauff
I'll never forget. It would have been like 2012. It was the SEC championship game. And it was when Aaron Murray was the quarterback of Georgia playing like this was the start of like peak Saban dynasty. And I remember like every single snap on both sides of the ball, guys were just getting crushed. And it was like, it felt like every player on defense for both teams were an NFL team. I think this game is going to be an absolute war zone. And it's also like whoever comes out, you just pray to God you don't lose a couple bodies. Because I think from the jump, this is going to be, this is going to be one of the hardest hitting games of the year. And you know, Georgia and Notre Dame was like that, right? And this is even going to be amped up because what's on the line? And listen, like, if James Franklin, your guy would get more credit, right? Because both of them don't get that much credit for beaten Indiana or SMU or Boise. But the Georgia win is an incredible victory, right? You beat Georgia, even if this is not his greatest team, like, that was a big time victory. So if he goes back to back Georgia and Penn State, like, that's. That'd be pretty sweet. And for, and for James, I mean, this would, I don't know, the biggest win of his career. And I think the players all know this. What's on the line, the program's history. I'd be stunned if these two coaches didn't kind of tap into some of those 80s highlights like Jerome Bettis and, you know, some of the dudes from Penn State back in the day. I think this thing is, I'm more fired up for this game than the other game. Yeah.
- [46:00]
Jon Stewart
Because this one could go back and forth, whereas the other one more people are leaning towards Ohio State. I was going to ask you this before we, you know, head to Ohio State, Texas. James Franklin, Marcus Freeman had a joint press conference this morning while we're recording this on Wednesday. And James Franklin said it straight up in front of Marcus Freeman that Notre Dame should join a conference. What's your take on that right now in a new landscape of college football? Because I know you and Colin talked about how Notre Dame's got a big advantage moving forward, you know, with the nil, the academic side of things. Marcus Freeman's a great recruiter. On top of that, from Notre Dame side, it's like, you know, we got our own TV network. We don't really have to join a conference. They beat Georgia, they move on in the semis. Usually that $14 million, when you advance, gets kind of distributed to a whole conference where Notre dame got all $14 million, which is pretty sweet. So I don't know if that goes straight to the Nil fund or what, but what do you make of like Notre Dame, if they should join a conference or not? Do you think they'll be forced to eventually?
- [46:57]
John Middlekauff
I think it's easy for James Franklin to say, but I saw that same graphic. It's like the SEC, $28 million. Well, that's all the teams. And then it was like Notre Dame, $14 million. And if they were to win this game, I don't know what the next number is, but it's higher.
- [47:10]
Jon Stewart
They keep it. Yeah, 13 or 20 total.
- [47:13]
John Middlekauff
Right. And they just get an extra $6 million. So they keep all the money to themselves. Like they are not in some partnership with 12, 14, 18 other partners. They have a one sided television deal that is financially incredible. That works, right? They rate. So it's like my only issue with them is they did that like alliance or deal with the ACC a couple of years ago, right? Where they, for a couple of years stretch, they were playing a bunch of those teams and it felt like they were like pseudo in the ac, like they were kind of wetting their beaks. They've always felt more like a Big Ten team. But listen, I, if I was their ad, their chancellor, anyone involved in their financials, like why would we join a conference? We don't need to and we already have automatic games against some good teams now, like, is it worth it for them? Because people are like, why don't you play Penn State, Michigan? You already play usc, you know, do rotations with like Florida State, Miami, Ohio State. Well, it's like, well then we'll miss the playoffs. Why would we even do that? Why don't we just keep playing couple tough teams and then a bunch of randos and go 10 and 2, 11 and 1. One thing I think this year is going to buy them that even next year. I haven't looked at their schedule, but if they're, they have schedules that parallel this year that aren't like, I mean, not great. I think they'll get the benefit of the doubt. And you know, this year it's like they had to be 11 and 1. Well, part of that is they lost to NIU. I think they have upcoming seasons where they could go 10 and 2 and I think they would have no problem giving them somewhere 10 to 12, you know, 10, 11 or 12, that, that seating. So I actually think Notre Dame's helped themselves out a lot in getting the benefit of the doubt. Moving forward with the coach because you'd be like, oh, Marcus Freeman, he's recruiting a bunch of NFL guys. Their team's good. They can beat anybody, especially this game's close. Even if they lose, I think I wouldn't join a conference. And I think James Franklin probably wants him to join theirs. It just helps the Big Ten's brand, right? It's easier to recruit. They're. Notre Dame and Penn State are probably recruiting a lot of the same players, right?
- [49:18]
Jon Stewart
Yeah, a lot of Midwest guys. Maybe in the south, but. But not really. They're mostly Midwest. I'm looking at their schedule right now in 2025, they've got a M on their schedule. They got at Arkansas, Boise State, which is kind of a fun matchup. Usc, but yeah, other than that, you've got some basic Syracuse, NC State, Boston College, PIT and Navy. So it's not the greatest schedule, but.
- [49:39]
John Middlekauff
That'S a, that's a real schedule. I mean, you say Boston College, Pitt, Navy, like those are legitimate teams. Like that is. I give them credit for not just having non stop Mac teams and not that they don't play a Mac team here and there, but like playing Boise, even if it's in Notre Dame, like that's a real game, right? Playing. I guess they get A and M. That was a home. And home. They get them at Notre Dame. Yeah, that'll be a big game. Like that's a. That's a real game. Playing USC every year is no joke, right? I mean, that's, That's a real rivalry. They've just happened to suck lately, but. And hell, I mean, you guys, even this year, like, they were shitty, but it was still a tough game. Took two pick sixes, right?
- [50:20]
Jon Stewart
Yeah, that was, that. That was a barn burner for sure, that USC game.
- [50:23]
John Middlekauff
If they would have lost that game, they. They wouldn't have got in the playoffs.
- [50:25]
Jon Stewart
They would have been out. Yeah, they would have. Especially USC. Finishing up 6, 4, 6 and 5.
- [50:40]
NPR Host
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- [51:12]
Jon Stewart
Transitioning to this next game. 5 Texas 8 Ohio State. Before we get to Ohio State, because everybody and their mother is going for Ohio State and deservingly so the hottest team in the country. How can Texas win this game? Is there any shot? How in your mind do you see Texas pulling this one out?
- [51:31]
John Middlekauff
I mean you got. I don't see. It's just a bad matchup because the thing their deficiency has been coverage and that's how, you know, kind of once scatter boo hit you get them on one on one coverage. Cade club Nick was hitting guys down the sideline. Well, what's Ohio State's best advantage? It's throwing the ball outside the hash or outside the numbers. So I just, I don't know, you just have to ugly the game and you just got to hope that Ohio State wants to run the ball like Michigan. But I think that they kind of learn from that game and they have not looked to run the ball these last couple games. So especially in a controlled environment, why wouldn't you throw it to Jeremiah Smith like once every three plays? You know, I just, I think you just feed that guy. To me the only way you win is like a low scoring ugly game. You just like that game that just happened to Texas where they kind of got discombobulated. They would lose that game by 25 points against Ohio State if they get off kilter. Now the crazy part is Texas came out that game against ASU and you're like, are they going to win this game 50 to nothing, two plays, touchdown and then that punt return where the speed, like they have dudes. So it's like can their offense. I guess you'd also have to say is Ohio State's offense just going to do this for four straight games, just basically feel like they're going to score in every drive or are they just going to have a weird half because they used to have those in the regular season. You'd watch them against Nebraska like what is going on? But they have not looked like the Michigan. Same thing, but they've been like a. They've been like the Kansas City Chiefs, like the Tyree Kill version last couple of games. So I think you got to hope they're a little off. Texas defense is good, but man that secondary and specifically the corners, well, it's like they got a guy that everyone's saying that's 19 years old, that would be the number one pick in the draft who looks like he weighs like 250 pounds and runs a 4 4. And their quarterbacks playing a lot of confidence. It does feel like like the Raven Steeler games, like how could anyone pick the Steelers Now Texas, if you're using that example is better than the Steelers, but it does feel a little bit like Ohio State is like I, I wouldn't bet that game just because it almost feels like too easy. But I'd be hard pressed like I think it would be. No coach has more of the four has more pressure than Ryan because everyone thinks he should win. I mean they're the heavy betting favorite on draftkings or basically like one to one. And you know, for example, Penn State's like six to one. Notre Dame's like almost five to one. It would be this would almost, I don't want to say diminish the last two weeks, but Ryan Day's now put himself in this situation a lot like going into the Michigan game, nobody thought he was going to lose. Sometimes when you lose that game, it's almost worse because like, oh, they're so good. It's not even fair. That's what everyone thinks. How could you not when you're watching them? I don't know what I mean. What do you think? I just think that I think you'd have to win the game like 19 to 15. It have to. I can't see Texas winning like 35 to 32.
- [54:44]
Jon Stewart
No. And they would have to hold Ohio State to a slow start in the first quarter. Both of their games in the playoff. 205 passing yards against Tennessee, 212 passing yards, 233 yards against Oregon. So that to your point about Will Howard, you get him going early, his confidence only spikes. You get a mechan book and all. There's just too many weapons. And you flip the side with Texas. And heading into the season it was all this Texas offense got so many weapons. Now you kind of look at them. It's like we got two backup running backs that are inconsistent. The offensive line struggled against Georgia twice, who's a really good front seven. And oh yeah, Ohio State's front seven is getting better. And finally something that we've been wanting to see the entire season with JT and Jack Sawyer. Okay, okay. What kind of weapons do we have on the outside that Isaiah Bond, the receiver you got from Bama, has been non existent and Golden's been great. But how can you compete against Ohio State with that elite of a defense with one wide receiver and a tight. I just, I think you're right. I think it's a bad matchup for Texas and it's one of those little things that they've been having during the season where they either come off to a hot start in that second third quarter, it's like they can't run the ball, they can't do anything offensively and then they get it into gear towards the end. I feel like Ohio State, you can't, you can't even do that. You got to compete drive for drive against them in order to have a shot.
- [56:01]
John Middlekauff
Yeah, I think you know the game I was at watching Texas live, they now granted it was, it was Quinn Ewers first game back from injury. It was like a tight seven three game with like almost two minutes left in the first half. And then Oklahoma fumble a little bit. But you're watching Texas, you're going, how do they have all this talent? They can't move the ball. And Texas gets in these ruts where the one thing that can't be denied is when Ohio State just gets it to their guys and just throws it a lot. It works. Texas tries that. Sometimes it does not work. Right. And obviously Jeremiah Smith is better than anyone Texas has. But yeah, I think running the ball, one thing Chip just, you know, when Chip really hit the scene at Oregon, he was a running a run play calling offensive coordinator. Like he called now they just hit like 50, 60, 80 yard runs all the time at Oregon. So it felt like they were. When you say a really explosive offense, you think like Randy Moss, Tyree Kill, Justin, you think wide receivers. But his offense is historically like what he wants to do. Shady McCoy had a great year for him. Like he wants to run his, his big signing when Philly, when he traded Shady was assigned. What's his name, the cowboy running back? DeMarco. What the fuck's his name?
- [57:20]
Jon Stewart
Oh, DeMarco.
- [57:21]
John Middlekauff
DeMarco. Murray.
- [57:22]
Jon Stewart
Murray. Yeah.
- [57:23]
John Middlekauff
Like he loves running backs and that's the thing about Michigan. I think he, like, I want to run the ball down your throat. And it just was an all time backfire. And I just think that they've, they've just embraced. We can't even fake it and there's no reason to. Well, I think if you're stark, one thing that you, you know the Kyle Shanahan has done this one year where they had to go on the road with Jimmy Garoppolo is like, you got us. When your offense isn't as good as the offensive teams, you're playing slow and ugly the game up so Texas can't run the ball. Like that's the only way you can win. Run the ball, slow the game down. Run the ball. And it's, I think it's hard for Sark because he likes to pass the ball, you know, and it doesn't it might not work. And I think sometimes, you know, the great NFL coaches will stick with the run because eventually I'll get a couple first downs, even if I got a punt a couple times. If we can just play a little defense early on, where most coaches that are inclined to pass it more than run it, we'll just say, screw it, this isn't working. It's, you know, it's been a Kyle Shanahan subtract this year, but, like, why he's had so much success in the playoffs is like, he's very stubborn in a good way, and he can slow the game down because, you know, you're not. Some teams are built for shootouts in Texas against this. I mean, it feels like one of the best in Ohio State has been built like this, right? Offensively, they have been really, really good under Ryan Day passing the ball, and they got the best wide receiver they've had, and they've had great wide receivers. It's crazy. I mean, they had Marvin Harrison, who was the fourth pick in the draft, and. And this guy is way better, way better. And Marvin Harrison was like a, no doubt about it, excellent All American player. And this guy's way better. And he's 19 now.
- [59:10]
Jon Stewart
You know why Ryan Day was smiling ear to ear in that press conference when they, when they told him, they said, yeah, Jeremiah Smith, yeah, he signed to Ohio State and he's just like, thank God. But to your point earlier about Chip Kelly, it is interesting how before the season we talked or we. Everyone was thinking about Ohio State's offense was going to be so predicated on the run. Now, part of that, too, the offensive line had some injuries and now they've kind of flipped in the playoff. Them changing their identity, say, hey, we're going to. We're going to pass to open the run. We're going to give it out to Jeremiah Smith, give it out to our weapons. It seems like that's what they've been preaching or people have been preaching them to do all season. Penn State or we're going to lean more on the running game and then play action with Drew Hour and Tyler Warren. Notre Dame, we're not going to throw it as much. Den Brock earlier in the season kind of wanted to get Riley Leonard to be a passer. And then he said, you know what? We're going to run it with him. We're going to run it with our two running backs, and that's how we're going to win games. It seems like Texas's offense, to your point, About Sark wanting to throw the ball more. It seems like we're here in the playoff and you still don't know what their identity is. I'm trying to think, look back on the season when Texas's offense was the best. Michigan, Week two. I can't think of a game where there's been like a dominant against a good opponent that Texas's offense has found an identity and they've looked the part of their talent that they have on the field.
- [60:26]
John Middlekauff
They were better last year. Right. I mean they felt much.
- [60:29]
Jon Stewart
Now granted Washington, you're right. Yeah.
- [60:32]
John Middlekauff
I mean Xavier worth they had. Xavier Worthy was a first round pick for the Chiefs and, and Mitchell who went in the second round. But I mean he. A lot of people thought he was a top 15, 20 talent. You know, I think there were some question marks off the field. But I will say this, and I have been critical of Sark over the years, but in Colin asked me that, like, who had the, you know, does Sark have a lot of pressure? I think if on the pie chart of pressure, it's all on Ryan Day. Back to back years in the semifinals. This was a team like starting in 2014. So like a decade ago, 6 and 7, 5 and 7, 5 and 7, 7 and 6. They had one good year under Herman, 10 wins, but then 8 wins, 7 wins, 5 wins. And then Sark got there in the last couple of years, 12 and 13, he's in the semifinals and he was favored last year against Washington. I thought that line was off. I mean, it turns out Washington, right, they had the better quarterback. They had, I mean, an absolutely loaded offense and a coach that was literally going to Alabama. So now granted, you could argue Sark declined Alabama, but it's like at worst they're equals, right? The coach like DeBoer was a star as well. So it's not like he was this like little engine that no one heard about. I think Stark's done a masterful job and he's got resources like Ohio. Like he's got a big budget which helps in the nil era. But he could lose this game by 15, 20 points. And it's like what he has done to the program to be in the SEC championship year one, to be in the semifinals. Now that ASU game, he had to win that. That would have been bad, right? So that would have been bad. But hey, listen, he did you see, you know, Kenny Dillingham after the game talked about the defensive coverage and people thought he was taking a shot at the db and he basically Said that we teach him on that outbreaking route which is 4th and 13, you're going to break like they're going to run the out route at the sticks to try to get the first down. Pretty ballsy play call to essentially run a double move because if you don't get protection and they were bringing the house, that play does not work. That ain't like a three step get rid of the ball. So if one of your offensive linemen, even if he trips or something or someone screws up, that is a disaster of yours. Doesn't. So it's. I give sir credit. That was a ballsy call in that moment because if something goes wrong he gets sacked or he's. Or he scrambles and has to just throw it up. It looked easy, but it was not. Like I give sir credit for that play call.
- [63:11]
Jon Stewart
Did your perspective change a little bit on that with Ewers? I know obviously it's one throw but I. 4 and 13. I almost texted you. I was like there's no way Ewers has the capability of doing that. Does any of that carry over to this game? Do you think there's any pressure? I guess more pressure on Ewers versus Sark alone where yours doesn't win this game. He plays flat. Like does he consider the transfer portal as you go to the NFL draft or does that kind of not even matter in this game?
- [63:37]
John Middlekauff
You know what's weird? When you looked at his numbers after the ASU game, they were really good. He was like 20 or 30, threw a bunch of touchdowns and on individual plays like that first touchdown throw like a minute into the game you're like damn, that passed to essentially I guess. Was that the game that was a game tying touchdown, right?
- [63:53]
Jon Stewart
Yeah. The fourth and 13 and then the second ot one, the one he had to helm was pretty sweet.
- [63:58]
John Middlekauff
He made some great individual throws. But I still feel like do I trust this guy against again he was against Arizona State where besides Scatter Boo. How many guys on that team start for Texas? Less than two or three. Right?
- [64:11]
Jon Stewart
Yeah.
- [64:12]
John Middlekauff
Dillingham would take most of their players immediately and start them on their team and they were going to. So it's just the talent discrepancy there is is pretty wide. I give you credit when you don't mentally crack. And there were points in time in that game where he could have just flattened. And you're right. I mean at 4th and 13 there's no disputing like his arm talent. No one acts like he's like got some crappy Arm like a little pea shooter. Like he can. If he gets some time, he can sling it. It's just. He also does some things, you know, like just throwing the ball up to the guy that was double covered. That was a pick that I would say was a huge moment in that game that help get ASU back some momentum and not the end of the world. It's not like a terrible decision, but you just. He just makes plays like that, which I don't think he can afford to make. If they, you know, to Beetle House State or even if they get to the national championships against one of these other. Like, he'd have to be much more in control of where his ball's going. But he. But he. But he makes explosive plays. Right. If he has some time on the.
- [65:18]
Jon Stewart
Defensive side of things. For Ohio State, a guy that, you know, they always mentioned, Jeremiah Smith would be number one in this year's draft. Caleb Downs would be up there for number two. I feel like a lot of people. And part of that has to do with the TV version. You don't really get to see a lot of Caleb Downs unless it's the sky cam and, you know, Herb street and Fowler go back and you see Caleb Downs looking in the middle of the field. But from your perspective being around the NFL and college, what sticks out to you about Caleb down, especially in this defense? Because it seems like he's one of those guys where, all right, Caleb, we'll put you in the middle of the field. Sense whatever you want to sense. And his instincts and his change of direction, it's just something special. And he's. He's definitely been. You want to talk about Jeremiah Smith coming from the recruiting as a freshman and then him being able to transfer from Alabama to Ohio State, Those two alone, if you. If you would have gotten. If Ohio State would have gotten those two. And Judkins is okay. Like, they got him in the nil money and he's a good number two. But it's like those two players alone, you don't even have to get any other transfers. They'd still be in the situation they're at right now.
- [66:17]
John Middlekauff
Yeah, I just think certain defensive backs pop immediately, and Derwin James was one of those guys. Minka Fitzpatrick was one of those guys. I would imagine if you go way back in the day, you know, the Ed Reeds even farther back, like the Rod Woodsons. If you just watch college football, you're like, is this guy the best player on the field? And, you know, his versatility. I mean, to come into Alabama. And I know it's. It's probably a little bit easier with the transfer portal. The competition might not be as crazy as it would have been 10 years ago, but to just immediately start and for Saban to just talk about this guy like, he's a genius. And I, I didn't know that much about him just because, I mean, Bama makes a living off getting like number one five star players, right? Did I remember when it, When Saban left and it was like, Caleb Downs in the transfer portal. I remember being a really big deal in college football and I was like, maybe I understood, like, maybe I need to pay a little more attention to this guy. It's like we cannot afford to lose him. Kind of like. And it shows you the power of quarterbacks. Remember when Lincoln left the usc, Oklahoma freaked out about, about Caleb and like their ad put out a statement like, we'll do everything we can to keep Caleb. That's how I felt like Alabama was treating Caleb Downs and it turned out like he was. He was probably as good as gone, but like he was probably only. He would have left Alabama for like two spots. Probably like Georgia, Ohio State. It's not like he had a long list. Maybe Texas, I mean, it's. Or stay at Alabama. But yeah, I mean, he's, he feels like a transcendent talent. And we get, you know, you watch Charger game, you watch Derwin James when you get a versatile player at that position because they cover, you know, whether it's a slot guy, tight ends, they can play the run. You know, Caleb can return. He's just. Yeah, they just, they just change your defense.
- [68:07]
Jon Stewart
It's going to be a, it's going to be a fun match of all four of these teams. Blue Bloods, I guess Texas has kind of the home field advantage here, being in the Cotton bowl at. AT&T Stadium. Thank God it's in a dome. Ohio State travels well. Anyways, I always love the. Oh, is this going to be a factor in this game or the noise or whatever with Ohio State, it's like, guys, Ohio State's played 15 games, 16 games this season. Coming off the Rose bowl, it's like, give me a break.
- [68:33]
John Middlekauff
Or I love.
- [68:34]
Jon Stewart
I was going to ask you this too. I see all the time on sports tv, well, are these the best four teams in the College Football Playoff? Are these the best four teams we could have? It's like, yes, yes, these are the four teams. I know it's not Oregon that we expected or Georgia that we expected, but I do Legit. I would. Your thoughts on those four teams? I think they're the best four teams. I don't know what else you could put in there.
- [68:57]
John Middlekauff
Yeah, I mean, what asu, that game was awesome. But I think when you look at it, there were six teams that were clearly head and shoulders above everyone else. And turns out Oregon, I mean, just had a bad day, perfect storm. Ohio State, who's the favorite to win it all. Like I think if they played 10 times, Oregon looks like that once or twice. I mean that was somewhat of an outlier performance. Snowballed on him and just got away from quick. But and Georgia, I mean I think those six teams were. We could have just had a 16 playoff this year. Now I'm glad Arizona State, like that was a really cool moment for college football, but I wouldn't put them, you know, over the course of a season in that group. And then you just. We saw a couple matchups and Ohio State killed Oregon and Georgia lost fair and square. So yeah, I got. These are clearly. These were a lot of people picked. I would say most people picked Ohio State, right. To win the national championship at the beginning of the year. I would say most people had Texas circled as a final four team and I would say Penn State, Notre Dame, at minimum were picked to be like top eight teams. Right. Get the final Four. You have to, you know, you never know who your matchup's going to be. But yeah, I think preseason we all acknowledged the rosters, the talent. That's the thing in college football more than the NFL. Like your roster and your talent of future NFL guys and draftable players really matters. That's what was so incredible about ASU being able to come back against Texas. You're like, how are they doing? Obviously scatter boo. But it's like, how are they pulling this off?
- [70:27]
Jon Stewart
It's pretty incredible to see his draft stock rise. I saw another ranking the other day, which the rankings doesn't mean a whole lot, but him being a top five running back at the beginning of the season, I think he was like bottom 20. It's pretty remarkable his thing. But I was going to wrap up with two more questions for you. SEC having a down year, Is that just because the landscape of college football and it's just year to year where, you know, they kind of got left out with Ole Miss, South Carolina, Alabama losing three games, the Big Ten, the top three teams, we knew we're going to make their way in. Not really a big deal. Right. It's just a one year thing. We all Know the SEC depth wise is the best conference.
- [71:05]
John Middlekauff
Yeah. I think there's two separate conversations on a weekly basis. Just playing teams with a bunch of NFL players over the last 10, 20 years. It's not debatable. One thing, Colin got me thinking about that the top of the Big Ten and the top of the SEC has been relatively similar. Right. Harbaugh had a powerhouse these last three or four years, beat Saban last year. Ohio State is, has been basically an SEC team since Urban Meyer got there through Ryan Day. They went toe to toe with one of those great Georgia teams a couple of years ago, remember on was it New Year's night? But the Big Ten programs have more money and I would include Notre Dame in that as well. So you got these. Michigan. Well, Price Underwood was supposed to go to lsu. Why do you go to Michigan? They got more cash. Ohio State has unlimited money. Notre Dame has just, I mean, every bit of Ohio State, Oregon type money. Oregon is now in the Big Ten. So when you look at the financial backing of the elite programs in the Big Ten and we haven't even mentioned as usc, who just can't figure, you know, how to chew gum and walk straight at the same time right now, but they definitely have financial backing. If things start, if they were winning like Oregon, Ohio State, can you. The money there would be, would be every bit the equal of like they'd be signing Bryce Underwoods to 12, $15 million. So you look at Alabama there, ad put out a statement begging for money. LSU just, I mean, loses out a guy to Michigan and even Brian Kelly said like, yeah, it's just tough Georgia last year, and I don't blame him, but they're like, yeah, we're just not going to pay a recruit $4 million and he ends up going to Nebraska, Big Ten. So the Big Ten schools, like, this is all about money now. Like Mario Cristobal is not a very good coach, I think relative to like how much recruiting and talent and he can dominate that element of it. But he does have financial backing. That's a huge, huge player in moving forward now maybe that changes with like revenue sharing and everyone's under the same salary cap. If I'm the sec, I want that to come, right? So it's like, hey, quarterbacks make this starting, you know, and it becomes a little more equal playing field. But right now it's not. And I saw, I don't know if you saw the story, but Dirk Cutter retired the Boise OC and he said he must have done a local interview and he Said that one of their top guys on defense got a DM within 24 hours of them losing the game from Oregon that offered him 700 or $750,000. Wow. And he said, our total budget at Boise is $2 million, and that's up $400,000 from the previous year. So it's like, how can we compete now? As of right now, that guy has not left Boise for Oregon. But I think Cutter was just trying to say, like, how shady this whole thing is and how unfair it is to put these kids in these situations. Like, this guy doesn't want to leave his teammates. He loves playing at Boise, but it's the wild, wild west. But that's the thing with Oregon. Like, they can just, they can offer people like $700,000 and he's just like a corner or a linebacker. This is not, you know, Caleb or Caleb Downs or Caleb Williams or. It's not like some lock, top 10 pick or micah Parsons or whoever. This is just like a guy that will start first. We'll give you 700. You know why? Because their budget is like 20, 25 million dollars. That's a huge advantage for the Big Ten is the money and the booster money. Like, I mean, the. Now how long can this sustain? I don't know. Because if I, if I wasn't, if I was a rich guy and I was cutting these checks, my team better be like in the playoffs every year. Because if we ever have like an 8 win season. Ole Miss, a good example of that. They spent a lot of money last off season. They didn't make the playoffs. Well, it's like all of a sudden it's like, yeah, I gave you $1 million last year. I'll give you $100,000 this year, make my money go a little farther.
- [75:12]
Jon Stewart
That's what's so crazy about the whole tampering aspect. I don't, I don't mind it. I'm not heartburn over it. But it's crazy how it's just legal where Oregon can just DM a defensive line from Boise State.
- [75:23]
John Middlekauff
It technically isn't right. It's just not being enforced. I don't think it's legal.
- [75:27]
Jon Stewart
No, I don't think it is. I mean, if I was Boise State, why would you not, I guess, report Oregon or report whoever that they were DMing them, but I don't know what the whole rules with the whole window. But he's not.
- [75:37]
John Middlekauff
They don't want to, they don't, they don't want to get sued. So it's like, you know, Harbaugh gets in trouble for giving the guy a cheeseburger in 2020. It's like, well, Harbaugh's. These are just NCAA rules. Very black and white. If, if I, if I'm the NCAA and I hammer Oregon, let's say I, I'm just making up a infraction. Like, I deduct 10 scholarships for 20, 25. While the labor and the, you know, the play, all these lawsuits have been all leaning toward the players. Like, that would be like, anti competitive. And that's where they just, I think they're just terrified. They don't want to get sued. They don't want to lose any money, so they just let it go. And that's where I think these coaches, none of these coaches have a hard. Have a. Like, are against anyone getting paid. They just think like, this is not really how it works. Now, you could also push back. Like, if dirt cutter wasn't 65 and he was 45 and Texas or some Ohio State wanted him to be the offensive coordinator, wouldn't it operate the same thing? Like, when your season ended, I would hit you up, be like, hey, you're making 500 grand. We'll offer you $1.5 million to be our offensive coordinator. So you could argue it's the same thing.
- [76:48]
Jon Stewart
Yeah, I saw Washington State lost 36 players to the transfer portal. And it's funny, too, the FCS championship was on Monday, and they showed before how Chris Kleiman, who was the former NDSU coach there forever and won a bunch of national championships with them, he was repping Kansas State and he was at midfield, and I kind of made jokes with my buddy. I was like, yeah, Chris Kleiman's there supporting ndsu, but he's low key recruiting, too. He's low key recruiting some guys at the FCS level.
- [77:15]
John Middlekauff
He was at that game on Monday night.
- [77:16]
Jon Stewart
Yeah, he was at that game. He was talking to the head coach at ndsu. I don't know his name, but it seems like they have a new head coach every year who win a national championship and go on to USC or go on to wherever. But I just thought it was kind of funny how climbing's there repping Kansas State, where it's like, yeah, he's there repping. You know, watch North Dakota State, something that he's built. But it's like at the same time, how can you not look over at NDSU's wide receiver number five, who's. Who's Trey, Lance's brother? That that dude could start at a Power 5 conference easily. He's a junior. I don't know if he's going to leave or stay. Who knows, Maybe he's like a Christian Watson and just kind of makes his way up throughout the draft, gets drafted third or fourth round. But I feel like you're starting to see that even more with nil. And the portal is a lot of these guys going to the FCS in the group of five.
- [78:01]
John Middlekauff
See this. That would be the defense of Oregon coming after that dude on Boise. It's like climbing's at Kansas State, right? Which is a good football job. They're the guy that replaced him. I think his name's like I don't want to screw up his last name, but he's now the Fresno State head coach. South Dakota State's head coach just left to become Washington State's head coach. So all these guys go to Kansas State, Fresno State, Washington State with hopes of one day being the head coach like Texas or Alabama or Oregon. Like that's the. If things go really well and those guys rattle off like back to back 10 or 11 win seasons, they will be up for the head coach of Washington if Jed Fishley, you know, that's. It's no different than a player. So I, it's like I, I don't know, dirt cutter, like bro, you bounced around, you became head coach. It's like what the hell's the difference? And I understand there should be some rules, but if I was at Oregon as like the quote unquote GM or the head coach, I'd be doing the same thing. We'd have a list of it wouldn't be everybody but like give me the top like 10 guys at the Boise, the UCFS, I guess UCF's a powerful but still, you know, whoever. I mean guys that could immediately start for us that we can give an Washington State, Oregon State, it'd probably be one guy, a program and we either have a connection through a player on our team that knows them or we just go directly to him or his agent and they're going to get some yeses, right? Yeah.
- [79:32]
Jon Stewart
How can you knock on those guys for just moving up the ladder? Like you mentioned, I've done all I could here at my school winning national championships. I want to go into PAC12. I want to go to the Mountain west and try to compete and then eventually make myself up the ladder like you mentioned.
- [79:46]
John Middlekauff
One thing I heard, I follow this guy that used to be a GM in college football and he. I saw a Clip on social media. And he said the first couple of years of the transfer portal, because nil was so new and so many programs didn't have their collective or money flow figured out that the transfer portal was loaded with a lot of like elite guys, like ton of Jordan Addison, Caleb Downs type guys the first couple years. And that clearly has played out that way right in the draft. A lot of guys have been on multiple teams. Well, now a lot of these programs have corralled some money. So their top guys, they can be very, very aggressive to keep that they want. So a lot of guys going in the transfer portal, it's become a little like NFL free agency. Like once the franchise tag happened, it's like actually NFL free agency. A lot of the top guys don't actually hit it. They either get tagged or extended. And I do wonder if the transfer portal has been diminished a little bit, at least with the power four guys jumping in. Like, if you're a power four guy and jump in, you're probably not an elite guy. Because if I want to keep you, if I'm a top 30 program, I'm just giving you 500, a million, whatever cost to keep you. Where I think where you can pillage is the Boise, Fresno State. Like, those type programs are still right for the picking. But I do wonder if it's harder. Like, why does this guy want to leave Alabama? Like, what's his, actually? Because if they wanted to keep him, they probably could, right? Or it's like Ohio State, because if I would have told you five years ago, like, hey, three guys want to transfer more Ohio State. Well, a lot of programs be all over them now. I'd be like, that's. Why wouldn't Ryan Day just want to keep. They have an unlimited but. Or Oregon or wherever. So I do wonder if now it's much more like the minor league, non power four, that FCS game. I mean, how many programs had their GM help, they might have sent them there on a scouting mission?
- [81:36]
Jon Stewart
Yeah, there was a lot of. There was a lot of good players on both sides. Even ndsu. I know that it's fcs, it's a lower division, but when you talk about dynasties and sports, NDSU's got to be. I mean, 10 national titles in 14 years. That's. That's pretty incredible what they're going on in North Dakota State. You can even watch the entire season and you probably blink your eyes. You could guess who would be in it. It'd be either North Carolina State, South Dakota State, or Insert Blank team.
- [82:02]
John Middlekauff
It's pretty. Montana. Montana State.
- [82:04]
Jon Stewart
Yeah. I was pretty happy to see Montana State lose. So that was.
- [82:07]
John Middlekauff
Isn't their quarterback supposed to be. But think about that. Like the Washington State guy, South Dakota State, the, the Fresno State guy is only one year removed from North Dakota State. Those programs. Would it shock you if South Dakota State, like a lot like Signetti brought over like 15 guys to Washington State?
- [82:25]
Jon Stewart
Yeah. South Dakota State's quarterback actually just committed to Iowa the other day, which is. Which is kind of a good fit. But to your point, that's guys better than Washington State.
- [82:34]
John Middlekauff
But I'm saying that next year guys, like how many guys can that guy bring with them to Washington State? And that's just the kind of the new college football, at least for the foreseeable future. Which, you know, in a weird way it's kind of entertaining.
- [82:45]
Jon Stewart
I like it. I mean, it's free agency. It kind of brings more. More eyes the sport. We always talk about parody and drama and stuff, but man, this season's flown by. It kind of stinks that we only got three more games left, but I'm excited to see how it ends up turning out. For sure.
- [82:59]
John Middlekauff
Yeah. So you feeling good? What? We'll get your feelings on your way out because I'm taking Penn State.
- [83:05]
Jon Stewart
Yeah, I feel good. I got Notre Dame. I think they win. I'm going to go 24, 20, I think. I think it's a low scoring game. Like you mentioned, a dog fight back and forth, hopefully. My voice. I'm going to try to keep my voice together for when we do the reaction after. Because screaming a lot during that. But I just. I know we talk about it Notre Dame all the time and stuff, but what, what Marcus Freeman's done, I mean, that turnaround with NIU losing that football game to where they are right now and just the future of what it brings and Brian Kelly quitting on Notre Dame and them wanting to stay in house and trusting the players. The athletic director said, hey, you know, we're going to look elsewhere. The players wanted Marcus Freeman. He comes in and it's been a bumpy road. Marshall, NIU obviously are the worst. Two losses, but this run's been special. It's been fun to see for sure. And there's been so much young recruiting that they have for years to come. I mean, their secondaries, freshmen, sophomores, it's incredible. And then you're like, you mentioned your guy, Bryce Young too.
- [83:59]
John Middlekauff
So what year. What year's love?
- [84:01]
Jon Stewart
Sophomore. Yeah.
- [84:03]
John Middlekauff
So it's like the core of Their team. That video where the strength coach announces to the team the, you know, a couple days after Brian Kelly, maybe it was, it was within the week. It was relatively quick that they made the decision. It's pretty cool. I mean, it's, it's pretty cool. And yeah, man, I just. You guys played. I remember first week of the season, was it two years ago you played Ohio State and lost kind of like a barn burner game.
- [84:29]
Jon Stewart
Oh, when was that?
- [84:30]
John Middlekauff
Was that three years ago?
- [84:31]
Jon Stewart
No, that was. That was last year. It wasn't the first week, but it was in the middle of the. It was in the middle of the middle of the season. I want to say October, when they wore the green uniforms and they, they brought 12 guys on defense and Ohio State scored on the one and Kyle McCord was dealing. I think he had a third and 23.
- [84:47]
John Middlekauff
And I thought you guys had a game like week one or two where you won like 20 to 15 or 20 to 12, might have been 2000. I thought it was 20, 22. But again, it's so common. Cord's long gone, who actually kind of looks sweet now and might be a good like third round draft pick, dark.
- [85:05]
Jon Stewart
Horse in the NFL draft.
- [85:06]
John Middlekauff
Who knows? Okay, good luck to you, Jackson. I will talk to you soon, man.
- [85:10]
Jon Stewart
Appreciate you have a going the volume.
- [85:19]
John Middlekauff
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- [87:12]
Colin Cowherd
Jon Stewart is back at the Daily show, and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports, and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondence and contributors, and with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.