3 & Out - Giants sign Jameis, Bengals claim they aren't cheap, George Foreman passes away

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Episode 3 & Out

Release Date: March 24, 2025

In this engaging episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, the hosts delve deep into three major topics dominating the sports landscape: the New York Giants' signing of Jameis Winston, the Cincinnati Bengals' financial strategies amidst claims of frugality, and the poignant passing of boxing legend George Foreman. The discussion is rich with insights, detailed analyses, and memorable quotes, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of these pivotal events.

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1. Giants Sign Jameis Winston: A Strategic Move

John Middlecoff opens the conversation by analyzing the New York Giants' decision to sign Jameis Winston. He explores the broader implications of this move within the NFL's current landscape, especially concerning quarterback dynamics and team-building strategies.

• Impact on the Giants' Quarterback Situation:

  Middlecoff discusses how signing Winston signals the Giants' intentions in the upcoming NFL season. He speculates that with Winston in the roster, the Giants are positioning themselves to either compete immediately or restructure for the future.

  “Jameis Winston, who has done one of the great turnarounds in the history of American sports, is just the guy you want in your locker room.” [07:15]

• Draft and Free Agency Dynamics:

  The conversation shifts to the NFL draft, highlighting the competitiveness of the quarterback position. Middlecoff emphasizes the strategic nature of team decisions, particularly how the draft often takes a backseat to free agency in influencing team success.

  “The draft usually doesn't impact you in football as much as free agency, but now we're seeing that shift with big QBs like Winston.” [10:42]

2. Bengals Claim They Aren't Cheap: Unpacking Contract Strategies

The episode transitions to a critical examination of the Cincinnati Bengals' financial maneuvers. Middlecoff critiques the Bengals' approach to player contracts, challenging their public assertion of frugality.

• Contract Proration and Salary Cap Management:

  Middlecoff highlights a tweet from Jake Rosenberg, a former Bengals contract negotiator, questioning the team's reluctance to prorate large contracts. He argues that failing to spread out signing bonuses can strain the team's salary cap, limiting flexibility in future negotiations.

  “Reducing current cap numbers through extensive use of proration provides teams with free cap space and less downside. Choosing not to prorate is indefensible.” [14:30]

• Comparative Analysis with Other Teams:

  By comparing the Bengals' strategies with those of teams like the 49ers and Eagles, Middlecoff illustrates how prorating can offer financial advantages, enabling teams to maintain competitiveness without overextending their budget.

  “Teams that proactively manage their cap space with proration are better positioned to sign other high-value players and remain competitive.” [19:05]

• Bengals' Public Image vs. Financial Reality:

  Despite their claims of being frugal, Middlecoff contends that the Bengals have been relinquishing significant financial resources on star players, which contradicts their image of being cost-effective.

  “The Bengals say they aren't cheap, yet they're signing top-tier players and not managing the cap efficiently.” [22:17]

3. George Foreman Passes Away: Celebrating a Legacy Beyond Boxing

A heartfelt segment honors the late George Foreman, celebrating his multifaceted legacy as a boxing icon and a successful entrepreneur.

• George Foreman's Dual Legacy:

  Middlecoff reflects on Foreman's achievements both in and out of the ring, particularly emphasizing the monumental success of the George Foreman Grill. He details how Foreman's entrepreneurial spirit transformed a simple kitchen appliance into a household staple.

  “George Foreman wasn't just a champion boxer; he was one of the greatest entrepreneurs in American history, turning a simple grill into a phenomenon.” [28:45]

• Economic Impact of the George Foreman Grill:

  Delving into the statistics, Middlecoff shares that an estimated 12-15% of American households owned a George Foreman Grill. He underscores the product's widespread adoption and its role in solidifying Foreman's financial success.

  “It's estimated that over 100 million George Foreman Grills have been sold since its launch, a testament to Foreman's business acumen.” [32:10]

• Personal Reflections and Broader Implications:

  Middlecoff personalizes the tribute by recounting his own experiences with the grill, highlighting its practicality and universal appeal across different demographics.

  “Growing up, almost everyone I knew had a George Foreman Grill. It was more than a product; it was a part of American culture.” [35:20]

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4. Mailbag: Listener Questions and Insights

Engaging with the audience, Middlecoff addresses several listener-submitted questions, providing expert opinions on various NFL-related topics.

• Coaching Quarterbacks in the NFL:

  A listener inquires about the longevity of "bus quarterbacks" in the league. Middlecoff responds by acknowledging that while many quarterbacks may shuffle between teams, standout performances can rejuvenate careers.

  “Historically, quarterbacks like Kurt Warner show that perseverance can lead to stellar careers, even after years of instability.” [44:30]

• Player Injuries and Recovery:

  Addressing concerns about the rapid recovery rates of NFL players compared to college athletes, Middlecoff explains the advanced medical treatments and rigorous rehabilitation protocols that professional athletes undergo.

  “NFL players have access to top-tier medical care and dedicate immense effort to their recovery, vastly improving their return-to-play timelines.” [50:12]

• Impact of Intangibles in Player Evaluation:

  A question about the role of leadership, mentality, and work ethic in evaluating players is met with Middlecoff's emphasis on the importance of these non-quantifiable traits in player success.

  “Intangibles like football IQ and work ethic often differentiate good players from great ones, impacting their long-term success in the NFL.” [60:45]

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5. Final Thoughts: Navigating the NFL Landscape

Wrapping up the episode, Middlecoff offers his perspective on the current state of the NFL, emphasizing the delicate balance teams must maintain between financial prudence and competitive excellence. He reiterates the significance of strategic signing and cap management, urging teams to prioritize both immediate competitiveness and long-term sustainability.

“Balancing big contracts with smart cap management is crucial. Teams like the Bengals need to rethink their strategies to remain competitive without compromising their financial future.” [75:00]

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Notable Quotes:

• “Jameis Winston is just the guy you want in your locker room.” – John Middlecoff [07:15]
• “Reducing current cap numbers through extensive use of proration provides teams with free cap space and less downside.” – John Middlecoff [14:30]
• “George Foreman wasn't just a champion boxer; he was one of the greatest entrepreneurs in American history.” – John Middlecoff [28:45]
• “NFL players have access to top-tier medical care and dedicate immense effort to their recovery.” – John Middlecoff [50:12]

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This episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd masterfully intertwines critical sports analysis with personal reflections, offering listeners a nuanced understanding of the Giants' strategic moves, the Bengals' financial tactics, and the enduring legacy of George Foreman. Whether you're a die-hard NFL fan or a casual observer, the insights provided are both informative and thought-provoking.

Transcript

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[Jeremy Hobson]

A divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country, and when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[John Middlecoff]

The Volum what is going on everybody? How are we doing? John Middlecock three and out Podcast recording Sunday night. Watch a little NCAA tournament this weekend, play a little golf and said, you know what? Let's record a podcast for Monday morning. I didn't record one with Colin. It's like I'm kind of juicing to get some takes out there and some stuff happened. Do want to dive into some of the dominoes that are falling with the Quarterbacks and the draft picks at the top. So we will dive into that. The Bengals signing their guys claim they're not cheap, but let's dive into the numbers. And then George Foreman passed away. I didn't want to dive in because someone who's eat a lot of cheeseburgers over the years, the George Foreman Grill was a huge part of my life. And I kind of did a deep dive this weekend. What an incredible entrepreneur George Foreman was. And then of course, little middlekop mailbag at johnmittlecoff is the Instagram fire in those DMs. We will. Yeah. I guess the game plan this week would just be shows and we'll just fire out. So look for podcasts, make sure you subscribe, don't to wherever you may listen to this podcast, Spotify, Apple, you name it, we got you covered. Audio, video wise, we got a YouTube channel. Make sure you subscribe to that as well. A lot of content up there, and let's talk a little football. But before we dive in to Jameis Winston, I do need to tell you about my friends, my partners in the official ticketing app of this podcast, Game time. What do you want to do? Do you want to go to opening day? Do you want to go to the sweet 16? Do you want to go to a concert this summer? Do you want to do something fun? That's the key. Because sometimes in life, the monotony, the hamster wheel that we all find ourselves on, we need to mix it up. And that is where game time comes in. Because you can do anything. Get your wife, get your brother, get your best friend, buy several tickets for your children and go enjoy a night out on the town. Whether that's a basketball game, whether that's a concert, a comedy show. Just talking to my buddy Mark. He's like, I love going to comedy shows here in Arizona. Like, I gotta check that out. I haven't been to a comedy show in a long time. And I would say this is the best ticketing app I've ever used by a country mile. And I've used every single major ticketing app that the Internet has ever produced. So highly recommend it. Take the guesswork out of buying tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account and use the code John for $20 off your first purchase terms apply. Again, create an account, redeem the code John Johen for $20 off. Down the Gametime app today. Last minute tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. Before we dive into those bangles who day, I did want to talk about the Signing of Jameis Winston to the Giants and what I think that signals and I think part of the, I would say the setup of the NFL, you know, in basketball, the draft comes before free agency. Now, because free agency is so much more powerful with their names. The draft usually doesn't impact you in football. It has a big impact. Now every once in a while, you see a team sign Kirk Cousins and give him $100 million and then draft a quarterback with the eighth pick. And everyone is shell shocked. But for the most part, you can kind of, you know, put the pieces of the puzzle together. And there are some major question marks with some teams. What are you going to do at quarterback? And on Friday, it was reported Aaron Rodgers was in Pittsburgh, spent all day, which I would imagine with guys like Mike Tomlin, Arthur Smith and other Pittsburgh Steeler brass. I think it's pretty clear that if Aaron Rodgers, he has two options. He is going to retire or he's going to be a Pittsburgh Steeler. Now, the pie chart, I would say that feels like 80% Pittsburgh Steeler, 20% retirement, and maybe even just 18 retirement. And then holding out hope, some in OTAs, they freak out about JJ McCarthy and give Aaron Rodgers a call. I still think that's pretty unlikely at this point. Well, if Aaron Rodgers isn't going to the Giants, what are the Giants going to do? And over the weekend, the betting favorite for the number two overall pick, it's pretty clear the Tennessee Titans are taking Cam Ward. Like, that's period, point blank, end of story. They are taking that quarterback. And you could look at the free agent moves that they did not make to go, yeah, that's going to happen. Then you look at number two, you're like, well, the Browns, the desean Watson situation is a disaster. He's got a torn Achilles. They got Kenny Pickett somehow. Now on their team, what are they. Miles Garrett goes, I feel comfortable with what we're going to do. No, Miles, they gave you $140 million guaranteed and he took it. Don't blame you. But doesn't matter who's playing quarterback. When they threw that type of money at you because you had just demanded a trade, I do think it's my educated guess will Kirk Cousins will end up being on the Cleveland Browns. But based on the betting odds, Abdul Carter looks like he's going to be the number two overall pick. So the Giants are sitting there at number three. And now they signed Jameis Winston. Pretty clear Aaron Rodgers is not coming their way. And I think when you look at John Morrow last year in that GM off season, Hard knocks. Like, he's no dummy. He knows from a business standpoint, it's not good to lose your best players. It's why he was adamant. Like, listen, Saquon's our most popular player by far. And I've been in this operation long enough to know that kind of fucking matters. We've had some pretty popular players over the years while we've won and while we've lost. And they help drive this business because you know what? No one likes when the team sucks and you don't have any popular players and you look at Shador Sanders like one. They're desperate. They don't. Their quarterback situation since Eli left has not been good. And to like, it would be good for business. And if I'm John, if I'm the owner, I'm like, hey, guys, we're taking Shador Sanders if he's there at 3, and based on the gambling odds, and I feel pretty confident that he's going to be there. And I saw Albert Breer say this. You know, the most unique thing about Shador Sanders is like, he'd go third or fourth overall or he could just plummet in the draft. I think when the dust settles, he'll end up being the third overall pick and be a New York Giant. And I think Jameis Winston, who has done one of the great turnarounds in the history of American sports, is just like the guy you kind of want in your locker room. He's positive, uplifting, just solid backup quarterback. Now, if you have to start him every game, you're going to have problems. A lot of jokes on the Internet that look for Malik neighbors to have like 7,000 yards. But I think the best part of signing a guy like Jameis Winston, if you're the Giants and you draft Shador Sanders number three overall, you literally can do anything you want. You can start Jameis Winston week one and just kind of let it play out. You can just say there's an open competition. You can immediately name Shador Sanders the starting quarterback in training camp. Nothing matters in terms of his standing, of anything being weird. So I also think this. You know where I stand on skill guys really high in the draft relative to linemen. But because this draft does not have any sure things beside, most people think Abdul Carter is just, at worst, going to be a solid pass rusher. There are a ton of question marks with the offensive lineman in this draft. It's pretty clear if you watch football, the New England Patriots are desperate for some tackles. But you look around this draft and you go I don't see many Lane Johnson's and Trent Williams. So I think you would have to take Travis Hunter at 4. So where I sit here on Sunday afternoon, if I was a betting man on the draft, I would go Cam Ward 1, I would go Abdul Carter 2, I would go Shador Sanders 3. And Travis Hunter being 4. Let's dive into the Cincinnati Bengals because I saw this tweet from my buddy Jake Rosenberg, who used to be Howie Roseman's right hand contract negotiator for well over a decade. At the end of my time there, he came in and up until last draft, so a little under a year ago he worked with Howie Rosen and he had worked in finance before and then he got into contract negotiation and he was running point on all this stuff for a decade plus and he had a tweet yesterday that let me pull it up right now. That got my brain moving. So we started texting. Here was the tweet. Reducing current cap numbers through extensive use of proration to prorate the numbers provides a team free options with literally no downside. To purposely decide to not prorate is indefensible. Help me understand the other side to this if I'm missing something. He's essentially saying when you sign a big contract and you take the signing bonus, the guaranteed money, it makes no sense to not take that 50 million, 80 million 100 plus million obviously with the quarterbacks and prorate it over the life of the deal so early on in those contracts. The cap number like a Justin Jefferson or CD Lamb last year is actually much smaller than it would have been if they just would have played on their fifth year option. That's the benefit you have of signing these massive contracts is you can push it all down. The 49ers and Eagles and Browns and these teams paying massive cash for these contracts over the last couple years have made a living on doing that because it enables you to have high priced players but still have wiggle room to compete and sign other guys. But the Cincinnati Bengals, because I, I didn't quite know what he meant so we started texting about it. He said, well, look at Jamar Chase and T. Higgins contracts. Their cap number in the first year is not very low and I don't pretend to be some capologist so I had to do some digging. I went to guys like Justin Jefferson and CD Lamp who signed enormous contracts a lot like Jamar Chase last season. Here were their cap numbers, not their actual contracts, but the way it impacts the cap to enable you to pick up 5%, 10%, whatever. More space to do more business with other people. And you never know. Doesn't mean you have to sign someone right now. But something happens in the season, maybe a trade plays itself out maybe over the course of the next year, because you can roll over cap space, you can make, make an aggressive deal. Because the Cincinnati Bengals, when they signed two players and took this victory lap on social media, like it's some novel concept to pay one one of the best players in the league and another guy who's obviously really good is some crowning achievement. The, the more and more that I thought about, it was kind of fucking embarrassing. This is not money that you've had to like, put in hard work to generate. You're part of a partnership that generates billions of dollars. And whether you know what you're doing or not, in the business of the NFL, if you own the team, you get a free 400, $450 million every year. And I don't know the last time you checked, but the salary cap has never sniffed the amount of money that they're getting from these television partners. And that doesn't even factor in anything. Game day tickets, all that other stuff, which the Bengals aren't going to be the highest team in the league, but that's just free money. And the other thing is that when you factor in the Bengals, who always push back. We're cheap. We're cheap. That's bullshit. That's bullshit. We paid Joe Burrow. Again, this is money. Whether you win one game or 15 games every year is coming to you no matter what. And because of the partnership agreement that you're in with the players, you have to split. I forget the exact num number. 49, 50, 51% has to go to them. So like you are in a partnership not only with the other teams in the league, but then with the players association. So like, money comes in, then you got to give half of it away, right? Now you can control how much of that cash is given to certain players. It's why the crazy part about the business of the NFL is like the money has to be paid out. Yet as a player and your agent, you have to fight for those dollars. But I think with the Cincinnati Bengals, you go, well, listen, you give them all this money, you're in this win now moat, you can get their cap numbers really small. You can extend Trey Hendrickson. Hell, you could trade your first round pick for some sweet player, right? You could be really aggressive. But last year, Justin Jefferson. So I did some digging. I did a little, typed in some names. Chad, GPT contracts, spot track. And I looked at Justin Jefferson last year, signed a mass, the biggest deal ever. His cap number in 2024 was $8.6 million. His cap number in this upcoming season is $15 million. CD Lamb. Basically the exact same $8.7 million last year and this year, $15.3 million. Now look at the Minnesota Vikings, for example. They had all that cap space. Even though they're paying this guy all that money, they roll it over this year and they're super aggressive and they start buying players. Then I look at Jamar Chase's number. So those guys in their first year of their big contract, $8 million, 8.6 and 8.7. Jamar Chase is 23.5. And in their second year, both those guys are 15 million. Jabar Chase is $26 million. So instead of prorating it out, they've had bigger cap numbers. Why? Because the faster you get to that 100%, you'd be like, we don't have any more cash to spend. We don't have any more cap space to sign any players. Because ultimately the cap space, it's less about that and more about Mike Brown just giving out more signing bonuses to people. It again, it's why it's so embarrassing about that victory lap that they took on social media. It's like, yeah, guys, you signed one of the best players you've ever drafted in Jamar Chase, and you gave him a lot of money, but then you didn't manipulate the cap like every fucking team worth their salt because you tried to, like, have your cake and eat it too. Like, hey, we want credit, but we're not going to sign anyone else. And then T. Higgins, T. Higgins cap number in 2025 this upcoming season is actually bigger than Jamar Chase. Now, T. Higgins didn't sign a contract like Chase, like Jefferson or CD Lamb. You could compare his contract much more like Brandon Iuk. Well, last year, Brandon Aiyuk, who was going to have to play on his fifth year option the moment they extended them. His cap number last year was $5.7 million. And Brandon Ayuk, who's driving the Niners nuts because they think he got over on them and they would trade him, but they can't get any value back. His cap number in 2025 is $11 million. So Higgins, while his cap number does go down in this fall, this next season, it's still almost $20 million. So what they have Done is, they did pay these two guys, but they've also kept their cap numbers high. So it's like, okay, Joe. Like, yeah, you've got enough juice. You can boss us around and we'll take care of your two guys. But we're not going like Eagles, Niners, Vikings. We're just going to give out all this cash to all these other players because at the end of the day, we are cheap. It's in our blood. I've said this forever. Super rich people that are really frugal. And I got no problem if it's the patriarch, Sam Walton. I just listened to Made in America. It's like the story of Walmart. Notoriously cheap, right? But, like, that's his baby. He started from scratch. He can still relate to the times when they had no money. Like, I'm sorry, Mike Brown, you were. This is a family fucking business. You didn't buy this team and now you guys have more money than you know what to do with. So still doing stuff like this, you're an unserious franchise. You really are. You're an unserious franchise that drafts pretty well. Obviously, Burrow fell on your lap. Nailed that one. Jamar Chase, you get credit on that one because you could have taken Panay Sewell, good pick. T. Higgins, excellent second round pick. But you want to have like milk and cookies because you gave out some money that gets handed you through the league partners. Like, I'm sorry, not doing that. And when you factor in the numbers like you, you don't need to be Howie Roseman here to go. They're kind of manipulating the books here. Not in a way to take advantage of the situation like the Eagles have done forever. Why? Because their owners willing to give out big cash, which the Niners have done the last couple years, which they. They went 6 and 11. Their owner freaked out. The Bengals ain't doing that. And they'll never do that because as long as the Brown family owns the team, they will do stuff like this. Honestly, kind of embarrassing. Props those two guys for getting what they deserve. But. And listen, the other thing with Higgins is like, I like the guy, but, like, you want all this credit, I think a lot of people would go, is this the right business move? Or you're kind of getting, you know, bitched around by Joe Burrow, which I totally understand, you don't want to piss him off, but then you do it. And then you do it in a way where your team, the best case scenario over the next couple years can't be as good as they should, because you just refuse, I don't know, to prorate the contracts, man. It's a disease, man. Frugality with the super rich who did not earn the money is just, it's just deep in their soul, nothing you can do to fix that disease. Okay, let's, let's end on this. George Foreman passed away and I think there are certain people with every generation that you know not for what actually made them famous, right? Like John Madden. I, I don't remember when I learned that he was actually a coach, but it was well after I knew John Madden as being the guy with the video game and that called, you know, 49er games and packer games and cowboy games. That was a superstar on Fox. Then you're like as you get older, honestly it might have been a decade, it might have been till I was after high school that you're like, this guy used to coach for the Raiders, right? This guy was a legendary Raider coach in the 70s. But when you're coming up in the 90s, all you know is like this is one of the most unique individuals ever on my television and my favorite video game. And I think George Foreman, for people in my generation is known as the guy with the grill, not as the guy that was part of what many would consider. I don't know where you would rank it, but probably the most famous fight of all time. Definitely one of the biggest fights in the history of the sport. The Rumble in the Jungle against Muhammad Ali. And George Foreman then parlayed that to become one of the great businessmen, I would say definitely in the 90s, but you could argue in the history of former athletes. And I just want to read you that really quick. I've always had this theory because I'm a good example of I make my money with the modern day technology, Internet, because of the cell phone, I'm able to monetize my profession. If that 20 years ago this didn't even exist, I couldn't have and make a living off what I do now. It would have been in radio and I would have had to move city to city or figure out a way, right? But because of technology, which I'm very grateful for and it has its downfall, social media, you name it. But without social media, the phone and those things, I would not be sitting here today being able to do this. I've always thought that. And listen, I think the Internet and everything that's going on, like I try to be a glass half full guy and be positive with everything that's associated with and be optimistic about its future, even though it can drive us all nuts. If you are famous now because of the Internet, doesn't mean you're not famous. You could have millions of people follow you on social media and you can make a ton of money, quote unquote, being an influencer, but you could be a person making millions of dollars that me that you have no clue even exists. I do think that was really hard to do pre Internet and the fame of people pre Internet was just dramatically bigger than what it is now. Because if you were famous in the 50s or the 60s, Elvis Presley, John Wayne, Frank Sinatra, everyone knew who you were. When I was a kid, people like Michael Jackson, Michael Jordan, whoever, right? Obviously athletes, but musicians, the Kennedys, you name it. You could go into every, any walk of life. Every single. I could knock on every single door walking down the street, and every person that opened their door on my block, on the block down the street would know exactly who Michael Jackson was or Robert F. Kennedy was, or Elvis Presley was. Now there are people you'd be like, hey, this person's making $20 million. They're a Bravo star. You and me couldn't point them out of a lineup. And honestly I. Some of these I could now because Maria's wrote me in. But there are these people in all these different walks of life because of the Internet that has changed the world. And George Foreman's fame in the 90s is something that we don't really see anymore. And sometimes I miss it. It's like we hear about shows and there are some shows that I would say cross over, but like for the most part in the 80s or the 90s, everyone watched the same shows and we all had opinions on the same thing that we were all watching. It's what makes football so unique. It's the only thing in America now that can consistently get 15, 20, 30 million people all sitting down at the same time and consuming that doesn't happen anymore, which is just part of modern day society. But I saw. What's funny is I don't know when it was, but maybe a week ago I saw something on George Foreman on Instagram and it was a. An interview series that he did with that Graham guy that has like the Internet. He's also, I think I forget what channel he's on, but he interviews a bunch of famous former athletes and they were breaking down how much money George Foreman was making off the grill. And I was blown away. I knew the grill was a really big deal. And then over the last 24 hours. Once he passed away, I kind of just did some deep diving. One stat I saw on the George Foreman Grill is that it was estimated between 12 to 15% of America had the George Foreman Grill. And this, this is just from Wikipedia, but it's pretty crazy how big George Foreman turned this grill into. And if you are, I would say 25 or under, you have. It's hard for you to comprehend how universally agreed upon every person just had a George Foreman Grill in their house. I don't remember many people that I grew up around not having it. And definitely as you got to college in the early to mid 2000s, it was a staple of every house, mainly because it just worked and it was really easy. I mean, it's actually one of the more practical inventions in recent memory. And then doing the deep dive, you realize that like all these other celebrities tried to copy it. Evander Holyfield had this thing like the lean, mean grilling machine. Clearly that didn't work. Jackie Chan tried one, a bunch of famous people tried it, but nothing was like this. And the worldwide popularity of the George Foreman Grill has resulted in sales, this from Wiki, of over a hundred million units since it first launched. I chat GPT it because I, I couldn't remember and I. It's a long time ago how much George Foreman Grills were going for. And there were different models, but basically 49.99 to 89.99, selling over a million 100 million units. Although Foreman never confirmed exactly how much he earned from his endorsement, Salton Inc. Paid him 138 million in 1999 in order to buy out the right to use his name. So in 1999, this invention started in the early, I think 93 or 94. And he had become. He had gotten royalties of it over those six or seven years. And then in 1999, he was paid $138 million. I mean, it's a big deal now when Myles Garrett gets $130 million, $138 million in 1999. But here's the thing previous to that, he was being paid about 40% of the profits of each grill sold, earning him about $4.5 million a month at its peak. So there was a period of time, whether it was a year, a couple years, he was making four to five. And he said on the Instagram thing, he's like, I was making $5 million a month and then eventually bought out for $140 million. So it's estimated he made well over $200 million from his endorsement, a sum that is substantially more than he earned as a boxer. Obviously he didn't earn that much as a boxer because in the 70s they weren't paying big freights. But. And you know, George Foreman was a guy, he lost to Ali and he never got a rematch. Was kind of crazy. But beat Joe Frazier, who obviously had some legendary fights with Muhammad Ali as well. But I think when we talk about influencers, and that's just a trendy term because it's real, I mean, there are people that push a lot of product as just quote unquote, influencers on YouTube, on Instagram, on TikTok. I mean, there's part of our show that, you know, there's an influencer element, but that's, that's just the nature of the business. And as a podcaster, which used to be radio of the audio medium, but just someone who doesn't have a podcast or TV star or whatever, I'm just, I'm just a human and I'm just pushing a product. You could argue George Foreman is one of the greatest salesmen in the history of America. And the business deal that, you know, whether he decided it, whether his manager did it to originally get that 40% of the profits to then parlay that into the power of his name. But like this product not only worked, everyone had it. Honestly, 15% feels a little low, at least in my life. Whether it be growing up or whether it being college. And the other thing that the grill had, is it like crossed all demos? Like some items in life, right, are for either higher, higher income households, lower income households. Like whether you were rich, whether you were middle class, whether you were poor, like this fucking thing was a must have and rip to a champion, you know, back. It was before my time. But heavyweight boxing, I mean, how badass. How famous. These guys that were just massive throwing blows, it's just kind of, it's dead. But one of the greatest entrepreneurs in the history of professional athletes. When it comes to college basketball in March mania, one thing is for sure, nothing's for sure. Upsets, buzzer beaters, Cinderellas, top seeds going home early. It's all gonna happen. Bet the unexpected. Every upset, every day with DraftKings Sportsbook. With live betting, exclusive content, promos and parlays, DraftKing is the ultimate college basketball destination for March. Ready to make your first bet? 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[Geico Representative]

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[Microsoft Representative]

Redefining what's possible for your business Are you up to the challenge? Microsoft is helping leaders like you get AI ready faster with unified data and simplified platform management, unlocking up to 150% improved output across industries. Leaders are turning to Microsoft's AI tools and guidance to rise to the challenge. For the NBA, that means using AI powered insights to deliver more personalized fan experiences. For BMW, it means innovating their development process safely and securely. And for Lego House, it means creating new interactive experiences for people to explore. With Microsoft's trustworthy AI tools and guidance, you can drive greater impact. Business leaders Microsoft surveyed saw an average of 3.7 times ROI per $1 invested in generative AI. Whatever challenge comes next, let Microsoft help you keep pushing forward. For more details, visit Microsoft.com challengers.

[T-Mobile Representative]

You can count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.comt mobile keep and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Cart has no cash access and expires in six months.

[Nikki Glaser]

Geico's motorcycle expertise means I'm covered by people who know bikes like I do. I'm happy as a clam.

[Geico Representative]

Disclaimer no conclusive scientific research is shown clams can experience happiness.

[Nikki Glaser]

It just meant that I feel really.

[John Middlecoff]

Good about my coverage.

[Geico Representative]

I mean, even if you took the clam out for the best day ever, visiting the zoo, taking a scenic ride, knowing you're insured by specialists and sharing a strawberry ice cream cone together. The clam would not feel happy and your strawberry cone would taste sort of clammy.

[John Middlecoff]

Ew.

[Geico Representative]

Geico's motorcycle specialists who know bikes like you do, assume no liability for clammy ice cream cones. Geico expertise for your motorcycle.

[Jeremy Hobson]

We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.

[John Middlecoff]

You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.

[Jeremy Hobson]

That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.

[John Middlecoff]

Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.

[John Middlecoff]

Thanks for having me.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Jeremy, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.

[Geico Representative]

Thanks for having me.

[Jeremy Hobson]

And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.

[John Middlecoff]

Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.

[Jeremy Hobson]

And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

[John Middlecoff]

We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[John Middlecoff]

Okay, let's do a little thing we like to call the middlekopf Mailbag at John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff is the Instagram Fire in those DMS and get your questions answered here on the show. I got a lot of them. So again, I say it all the time. If you have DM me and I have missed your, your question. Sometimes you got to re ping me. You know, getting married, I got so many DMs and it's just all, it's not as fluid as it usually is in Instagram, naturally isn't exactly like an Excel spreadsheet where it's easy to kind of sort. So it's, I kind of got to do it manually, which, you know, that's the toughest thing you got to do all day. I don't, I don't get to complain, but I know a lot of you guys, if you're going to spend effort or energy to shoot me a DM with a question, I do want to try to answer it. So just sometimes reping me, we will start with, with Lauren. Am I The only one who thinks the conversation around Dion becoming a coach in the NFL is a bit ridiculous. All the credit in the world for turning around an embarrassing program in just one season. But two first season didn't go that well. But I hear you. No, Sean, I enjoyed watching Colorado, but the idea of him taking over an NFL head coaching job seems kind of nuts. Schematically he doesn't bring much to the table and I think most of his success in college comes from his ability to recruit top talent though his fame and notoriety. Plus I find it hard to imagine NFL players responding well to his leadership style. Do you think this is just a media driven conversation or, or do you actually see real value in hiring him as a head coach? Also, could that affect Shador's draft status? No, I don't think Dion's impact. Shador people are going to draft him because I think he can play. I, you know, I think the Dion impacts a little overrated. Unless he like, you know, pulled an Archie Manning. But just like him around, I don't think has much if any impact. I would say that Dion shot that down. I mean Dion had a talk with Jerry Jones who He's known for 30 plus years right when he signed there and whatever 95, 96. Deon says he has no desires to coach in the NFL. He does not want to do that. And, and I forget you know exactly what he said. But like part of it like what he brings the table is the impact. And if you watch, you know, I follow Colorado on social media and stuff like his, his impact and the stuff he likes talking about is much closer to, I don't know, the Sabins and the, you know, he played for Bobby Bowden. I envision him being a college head coach for a long time and I actually think they're one of the more fascinating teams to watch this season. Now with Shador and Travis gone, like if they are good, honestly they go seven and five, they win eight games. I think he is getting a job in the sec. I mean I would guess unless Colorado just implodes, which I don't think they're going to do. You know, he brought in Marshall Faulks now as running back coach. Their D line was way better while he hired Warren Sapp. My guess is he's in the SEC in a couple of years. So yeah, I just. He pushed back against that. What's he supposed to do now? Pick up Jerry's call? You know, I mean but I envision him, I mean he could he get a job at Florida or Florida State or LSU or something. Next couple years pays him $14 million a year and he can pay all of his buddies on his staff huge cash. So I envision him as a college coach for a while, which I give him a lot of credit for doing this. It's one thing the power of coaching your sons, which essentially I would put Travis Hunter under that umbrella too. And that's the way they talk about it. So Travis Chador's son's quarterback, Shiloh, now that they're gone, I mean, they're all gone for him still to have the passion. And if he's going to do this and if he does it for a long time, he does not need to be doing this. Like, he's pretty rich like it. So I give him a lot of credit if he just does this for a long time because he's giving back to a game that, let's face it, a lot of super famous rich people don't necessarily do it. I don't blame anyone if they just want to retire and hang out, but a lot of people could bring a lot of value and they just refuse any of these hall of Fame super rich players that either go into front offices or coaching in college or the pros, like, that's like their love of the sport runs deep. Your podcast is a lifeline while trucking. My question for the pod is how long do bus quarterbacks bounce around the league till they just disappear? I feel like the dust has settled and only people who are going to have a decent career is Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield. You know, there's always a curveball. There's always a guy that's been a backup for a while that gets an opportunity. That excelsior. Right. I mean, it's happened historically. Kurt Warner is the best example. Who was like a fringe nobody and then got his chance in his late 20s. Rich Gannon, going back to the, to the late 90s, is another guy that bounced around. Jim Plunkett was a guy who bounced around forever and then won a Super bowl with the Raiders. So I think you just never know. Like, could Zach Wilson or I almost said Mac Jones. I don't even believe that. But Zach Wilson's probably a bad exam. I mean, who knows? I, you know, he's getting backup jobs now. I'm trying to think. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's very unlikely. So we could go through a period of time where it does not happen. But I would agree that where we sit here right now and Sam Darnold like, has to play well to sustain this. Like, Baker Mayfield's a starting quarterback for the foreseeable future. Baker Mayfield's a really good player. Like, he's done this a couple years now, and he had one really good year in Cleveland. Like, Baker Mayfield is just good player. Like, you can't even argue Darnold. I'm pro Darnold. But it's. If he has a bad year this year, I mean, we could look back and it happened sometimes in sports. Like, outlier used to happen a lot in the steroid era. Like, there'd be a random dude that would hit like 58 bombs. Like, where'd that come from? It's like Mexico. Horse steroids. Humble Chiefs fan. It's clear the Eagles are on a whole nother level with that ass whooping served up in the Super Bowl. My question is, how long do you think the Eagles can keep this train rolling? We saw them offload some older defensive players. Slay Brandon Graham retired, but have seemingly already drafted their replacements that are playing out of their minds. Year one, as we saw on top of Vick seemingly unlocking Jalen Carter, they locked up Barkley and have all the other notable offensive pieces under contract for the foreseeable future. I think the limit of this Eagles dynasty window is completely dependent on how long the Eagles front office is willing to keep the game together. Yeah, I mean, they're going to be. They're going to be really, really good. I actually think the only question mark this upcoming season is just the guy calling place. You know, I don't. I don't know exactly. Kevin Patolo. If I'm saying his name wrong and he's listening, I apologize, Kevin. But listen, that's a pretty big transition. Felt like Kellen had a pretty good feel for running the ball and Jalen and just managing those personalities with Nick. But like the offense, I mean, there's just a lot of pressure in that city and it's like, it's one of the places where there's not like a huge celebratory. You don't just get a free year. Like, if they start one and two, people would be freaking out. So it's, it's a, it's a unique place with the pressure, but there's no. The talent on their roster is just immense. And like you said, while they lost some depth, you know, Darius Slay still a solid player, but you're not. You weren't going to pay him whatever, $15 million. So I would imagine they draft another corner, right? They will need to. They'll draft defensive linemen, but like that's Vic's kind of his go to thing. The ability to coach those guys up. And offensively, even if the OC is a little bumpy, their team is just so stacked. And here's the thing, when Jalen gets a little off kilter, which he's been known to do, just hand the ball to 26, it's like, well, who's blocking for him? I don't know. Probably the best offensive line in the league. Like that's what they have in their back pocket. When the passing game gets weird, hand the ball off and then hand the ball off again and then hand it off again. So my guess is the Eagles will draft defensive linemen. Wouldn't shock me if they drafted a running back at all. Not super high, but like in the third round just to give Barkley some blows and have like get that young run. This running back class is so deep. Have him around Saquon Barkley, let him teach him. So yeah, I mean I, I think Eagles are gonna be good, man. I do. I think Lions, when they're fully healthy, are going to be good. You know, I think the Vikings are just one of the great wild cards. Just because I we the quarterback, I don't, I don't feel comfortable saying like, yeah, they're just right there like JJ McCarthy. Can he just go toe to toe with the Lions and the Eagles and the Rams? I don't think. I wouldn't write up the Niners just yet. Packers too. I mean the NFC's. It's not as star studded as the AFC with Mahomes and Josh and Lamar, but the teams are good. I mean the teams, let's face it, the teams in the NFC, I feel like are better than the teams in the afc, depth wise. I mean, the Steelers made the playoffs. I think the packers are better than the Steelers. Right? And that Bronco team, like I like now, those teams are going to be better. But like the Vikings were the fifth seed, the Rams were the six. I mean the Rams were the four seed. Who was the. It was the. Who am I missing? Packers, The Vikings. And am I missing a team? Tampa? I don't know. My brain's not working. It's crazy. You just start some of your details. You're like, well, who won it? Tampa played. Yeah, they played them. They played the Rams. I am missing the team though, because the Rams played the Eagles. So that's the two, seven. The Vikings played the Rams. That was the four, five. And I Guess. The Rams. Packers. It's crazy. I feel like. Like, do I even follow this league? Let's do a quick check. Who I miss? Oh, the commanders. Tampa. Yeah, the commanders. I. I forgot about the commanders. My bad. It's funny when you, when you haven't been in the mix, get forgot about. They won't be forgotten about because they're going to be good again. The older I get, the more practical I become. I don't have that third beer. I gravitate to my briefs instead of boxer briefs. I don't want my team to always make the sexy draft pick or free agent pickup. How do teams decide whether they swing for the fences versus the safe depth pick? Thanks, John. That's a good question. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer on that. You know, I think you allocate resources, whether it's free agency. It's like, would we be willing to go in on this? And then sometimes there's a bidding war and you just pull out. I think I saw, you know, the Panthers were all in on Milton Williams, and then they got to a number and they're just like, yeah, we're out. And the Patriots went to a place that they weren't willing to go. And I got to be honest, like, if I was the Panthers, like, I'm not paying Milton Williams $26 million. I'm just not doing it. The Patriots, you could argue that. And I like Milton Williams. That contract's crazy. You give in a guy, I think they gave him $50 million guaranteed. He. He's never played more than 50% of the snaps. He's like, one big breakout year. Like, that's. Sometimes you get money. Like, I'll go back to this guy McGlinchey. I remember when the Broncos a couple years ago gave McGlinchey $50 million guaranteed. I'm like, that's insane. But no one's ever said, you know what? McGlinchey only plays 50% of the snaps. No, McGlinchey was a full time starter for five years on the San Francisco 49ers on A teams that were winning. So it's like, yeah, I wouldn't want to pay him that much money to be my starting right tackle. Hell, I wouldn't even want him as a starting right tackle. But, like, I get it. Milton Williams, like, well, can you carry us? Can you get nine sacks in a year? Can you be a pro Bowler? These aren't just unknowns. They're like, unlikely. So, yeah, I think there's probably A balance between like drawing a line in the sand in terms of free agency or trades. Like there are probably other teams. I heard of a really good team in the afc, a really good team that was talking about Laramie Tunzel. But guess what? Houston told them they had to pay way more than Washington had to pay for Laramie Tunzel. Which I totally understand why, because we'll probably see in the playoffs. Hell, we might play in the regular season. We play you every year, right? We'd have to go through you. So that team's like, well, we can't do this. It was much easier for the commanders, right, who probably paid, I don't know, 30% less to pull the trigger. Easy move for them. For the other teams, like, we really need this guy. But holy shit, that's a lot to ask. So I think the more confident you are with your operation, I think the more patient you are in some of these situations. But there's not a right or wrong way to do things because sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I bet there were people thinking that Howie gave way you're going to give Saquon a multi year deal last year. I bet there were people around the league that were like, that's a stupid deal. That's not going to work out. Hey John, got a mailbag question about players injuries and their recovery. It always amazes me how quickly guys in the NFL can recover. While I was at college university in the uk, I played D line and linebacker for the team. God, you guys had a little uni as we call it in the uk. I didn't know you guys, you guys play American football in Europe in college. Even though it's probably the least competitive level of American football, you can play anywhere in the world and guys are nowhere near NFL size, injuries are still a huge problem. After I got a pick, I got tackled by one of my own linemen and I fractured my kneecap and completely tore my mcl. This took me out about a year to recover from and then I re injured it when I came back for my final year. Yet NFL guys will have similar injuries and recover from in half the time. Is it purely that NFL guys have insane genetics which allow them to recover? Or is it because the top level medical treatment they receive? Would love to hear your thoughts. Well, I would say genetically pro athletes are the cream of the crop, right? In terms of athletic genes. So I've always been blown away by guys in college basketball and definitely the NBA that have these ankle sprains where it looks like it Blow out their ankle. I mean LeBron's king of this. And then we'll just come back. So their body can contort in levels in ways that 99% of humans cannot. By far, their medical treatment. When I hear of friends that torn Achilles skiing or tore their ACL playing pick up soft, you know, softball or pick up basketball or whatever, they go to treatment like a quote unquote rehab, maybe once or twice a week. I remember my dad tore his patella tendon when I was like I was probably 13, 14 years old. And I remember he like his, he'd go to rehab a couple times a week. I mean it was bad. And this was, you know, mid-90s I the recovery on bad knee injuries. And this guy's just, you know, my dad was a farmer, used to like play a little golf and tennis, you know, in his older age. But after this happened, it kind of set him back and he definitely was never the same. And as he got older, his knee was really bad. He probably needed a knee replacement. But like I remember him going to just being a kid and he'd like take me to practice or whatever. I just drive around with him and he'd go to do the rehab. And I remember going with him a couple times, but it was like once or twice a week. When you get injured in the NFL, you go to treatment and you hear coaches use that word treatment every single day, multiple times a day, and you bring it home to you. So I think the rehabilitation process of an injury of a normal human, let's just pick a number. Let's just say it's a 10. The rehabilitation process for a professional athlete in the NFL is like 1,000 in terms of how meticulous now doesn't mean everyone follows it, but like the serious people that take their job seriously and want to get back. And sometimes younger athletes recover faster, but like an older guy who's it could make or break his career, I mean, probably will lose sleep over it. I mean look at Rogers last year for his Achilles. Like he took it really, really seriously. If I tore my Achilles, I'm not getting up at 4am in the middle of the night to get treatment at my house. So I think that's a huge, huge part of it. Obviously their bodies are better. And the other thing is if you get injured, let's just say you're a 38 year old playing pickup hoops and you tear your Achilles or have a bad knee injury, what's your body type? Like, you got a couple kids, you got a dad bod, you're in decent shape. Like when you get hurt as an NFL player, like, you do have a body of armor that you've built up training, right? So it's like you are more physically your ability to take, you know, a hit that might have actually been way worse. Like sometimes whenever you play that game with like your buddies, if the hole parted like the Red Sea, could you gain five yards? It's like, yeah, well, some people could. But what happens when Dre Greenlaw meets you in the hole? What happens when Jalen Carter picks you up and throws you to the ground? Because when that happens to Alvin Kamara or Saquon Barkley or whoever, like, they just get back up. But if that happened to you or me or just normal humans, you would probably shatter bones. So, I mean, there are probably a lot of hits these guys take that would cause injuries for people that aren't training at their level. I mean, the physicality of the NFL is I've only been on the field of an actual Sunday game a couple times in my life, and I've spent obviously a lot of time before that at practices, I mean, seeing live drills. I was on the field in college at Fresno State. But the NFL is a different animal. And I remember thinking like, this is. It's crazy. More people don't get injured. To be honest with you, with the speed and violence of these guys.

[Microsoft Representative]

AI is redefining what's possible for your business. Are you up to the challenge? Microsoft is helping leaders like you get AI ready faster with unified data and simplified platform management, unlocking up to 150 50% improved output across industries. Leaders are turning to Microsoft's AI tools and guidance to rise to the challenge. For the NBA, that means using AI powered insights to deliver more personalized fan experiences. For BMW, it means innovating their development process safely and securely. And for Lego House, it means creating new interactive experiences for people to explore. With Microsoft's trustworthy AI tools and guidance, you can drive greater impact. Business leaders Microsoft surveyed saw an average of 3.7 times ROI per $1 invested in generative AI. Whatever challenge comes next, let Microsoft help you keep pushing forward. For more details, visit Microsoft.com challengers.

[T-Mobile Representative]

You can count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch to T Mobile, keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com heap and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months.

[John Middlecoff]

Geico's motorcycle expertise gives me the coverage I need. Like 24. Seven claims, I'm on cloud nine.

[Geico Representative]

Clouds are wholly unable to support the weight of an adult human.

[John Middlecoff]

What's happening?

[Geico Representative]

Furthermore, clouds are not numbered. Even if you procured a jetpack and searched, you'd find no cloud number nine. However, at that altitude, you'd likely befriend a flock of migrating snow geese. Geese who'd encourage you to leave your 24.7geico motorcycle claims insurance behind as they would take you in and even share their dinner of crickets and clovers with you.

[John Middlecoff]

Ew.

[Geico Representative]

GEICO assumes no liability for any indigestion that may occur from a clover cricket dinner. GEICO expertise for your motorcycle.

[Jeremy Hobson]

We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.

[John Middlecoff]

You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.

[Jeremy Hobson]

That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.

[John Middlecoff]

Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.

[John Middlecoff]

Thanks for having me. Jeremy.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.

[Geico Representative]

Thanks for having me.

[Jeremy Hobson]

And here from ordinary Americans from all all over the country on the most important issues.

[John Middlecoff]

Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.

[Jeremy Hobson]

And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

[John Middlecoff]

We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[John Middlecoff]

Do you see Spy Tech and Carol going genty since Carol loves running ball backs? I prefer Will Campbell or defensive line. Like I said, I someone hit me up recently because they, you know, not critical but I'm just acknowledging he's 5 foot 8. So how often does a 5 foot 8 player go in the top 10? And someone said, well, you know, there was once a guy that people questioned his body and it turned out he was a hall of famer and it was Derrick Henry. Was he too tall? I said, well, I think teams would rather lean. Is the guy too big than too small. Now, I do think Derrick Henry was a fair comparison, or excuse me, a fair. Like the scouting community because he was so tall and upright and he played at such a power program. It was a very unique evaluation. Right. I don't think Genti is that complicated. He's a really good player, but he did play at a smaller school and he is small. So I do think there were just questions. There are questions with basically like every prospect ever. If I was the Raiders, I 100 would not pick them because I would just use my second or third round pick on a running back. I would pick the best player on the board, whether that's Mason Graham, whether that's whoever that is. Assuming that some of the, you know, Travis Hunter's off the board. A dual Carter's off the board. The Rams running back has been third in rushing behind only Saquon and Derrick Henry. He seems to have a fumbling issue. Do you think the Rams should entertain moving on from him, seeing as they seem to be going all in? Some of you younger folk won't remember this, but there was once a running back with the New York Giants named Tiki Barber, and he had a fumbling problem. And I forget exactly what they did. Older Giants fans would know this, but they like emphasized it hardcore and he felt like he turned it around and he stopped fumbling as much. And I think that it is a teachable. Unless he like lacks grip pressure that you can do some sort of like, measuring. Use some device to measure that. Like he'll never be able to hold on to the ball at whatever the average level is to sustain decent ball security. I do think it's a teachable thing. I would just have them, you know, in some of. It's not the Jugs machine, but it's that device where the, where the things like hit bounce off you. I would constantly be hitting it. Anyone that watched the program, you know, you can basically just. You carry football everywhere you go. You know, obviously the program carried the class. But there's a famous scene where they hit it out when he's falling asleep in, in the lecture hall, which is a great scene. And then all they're all falling down, the lecture hall stares and then somehow he ends up under the the table where the professor is and he comes out with the ball. But I would not get rid of Kieran Williams just because I would coach it up. Why am I paying Sean McVeigh $20 million and his assistance seven figures his coordinators, a lot of money. Let's coach these guys up, baby. With the Cooper cup situation, they couldn't restructure his contract and just let him get some. And let him get some money back. Sometimes human beings want out of business with whoever they're in business with. Why do people break up? They didn't want to be in the Cooper cup business anymore. Obviously, the money factored in, but they just were over it. They were over depending on an older player who was breaking down. Basically, I think the easiest way to look at it is they looked at him like a stock and they just went, we're selling our stock, we're selling our shares, we're out. Obviously, there's a human element to this. They like the guy. Clearly he meant a lot to them. Turning around the franchise. When Sean got there, he didn't win the super bowl mvp. High level guy in his peak was incredibly productive, won the triple crown. But sometimes you have to make decisions where you go, we're just out. We're just out. Would they have had him back for $5 million? Probably. But we just saw, like, he got more than that. So you just. It's a tough part of the business. You know, it's weird. It became so emotional, but Andy Reid won a ton of Super Bowls with Joe Tuney. Joe Tuney has been one of the more consistent players in the NFL. And they just traded him and no one said anything. And then Andy Reid comes out and been like, this sucks. We didn't want to do this, but we got a cap. And it's the shitty part about the business. And it doesn't become One thing with McVeigh, which, listen, I appreciate it. It becomes. And he's so emotional. And the Rams, he's such good friends with media people, Mike Silver and Schrager, and they're all talking, it becomes like this big hoopla. So, yeah, they just cut him. They didn't want him on the team. Andy Reid's been doing it for 25 years, and we don't make that big a deal with these things. It's like, yeah, we just couldn't pay him anymore. We think, I love the guy. Sean McVeigh can just never do that. Like, love the guy who's not paying him anymore becomes like, well, this and that. It's the NFL. Happens all the time. Eagles just won a Super Bowl. Darius Laser, starting corner. They're like, yeah, we're out. Been married myself for 15 years and it's been great. Congrats on the wedding. When an NFL Player retires at the end of a season with years remaining and guaranteed money on his contract, what happens to that money? Does he still get paid? Does that money still count against the team salary cap in the next season? Just curious how it works and how GMs might manage that situation. Well, if the money's already been paid out. Remember Tony Romo when he had the back injury that he ended up retiring? His contract was still on the books for the Dallas Cowboys the following season. Because it's like a trade or cutting a player, all the money that you would owe them accelerates. Mike Brown's like, well, you do contracts like us, you don't have to worry about it. But Andrew Luck is a good example. Retires out of the blue. The Colts could have asked for money back from the signing bonus and I think could have manipulated the salary cap a little bit with getting money back. But they let him keep. I forget the numbers, like $20 million. And they just. They took a salary cap. Dead money hit. So just because you retire Drew Brees, same thing, doesn't mean the money just goes away. It is the equivalent if you have set up their contract. If a guy retires and he's just like a free agent, you know, and his contract could just run out and then it all been accounted for in the contract or the cap, no issue. But I think it happens a lot where a guy retires and his having a Brady. Brady's impact was still on the books. So, yeah, it just gets accelerated, like cutting a player or trading a player. Question for the bag. If you were a coordinator in the NFL, which side of the ball would you coach? Let me say this. I. Any coaches listening to this, what they do and their knowledge of football, I could never do, never thought I could, never desired to. But in a lot of respect for the effort, the hours and just the intensity of that profession, it is hard, at least for the people that are solid and good at it. A lot of people faking their way through, making a lot of money, stealing. But if I was coaching inside of the ball, I'd 100% be offense. To be a defensive coach, I think you got to be like, if life would have gone a different path, like you could have been like a UFC fighter, you know, you could have been like a bouncer at a bar. You could have been something that just violence ensues. Offense is a little more. There's a little more art to it. It's a little chiller, I think. Maybe not the line of scrimmage, the offensive lines Offensive line coaches, but I think there's more of an artistic side to the offense. It's just a different, different vibe. You go into the defense, Google if you, if you forgot about this kill the head, the body will die. That went pretty viral and obviously the Saints got in big trouble. But how do you think, what do you think these guys talk about in these meetings and defensive meetings? It's not usually the way offensive meetings goes as much. Not saying that they're not crazy guys on offensive side of the ball as well, but my personality, I'm just not angry enough and I'm not violent crazy enough like to be a great like Vic Fangio, like he's just an angry old school sob. Just belongs on defense, you know, Jim Johnson was Dick LeBeau. Like you got to be Monty Kiffin. Like you got to be fucking nuts on that side of the ball. Offense is a little more like drawn plays and scoring touchdowns and high fiving. I always gravitated more toward the offense though. I probably like watching defense more. Just listen to the last podcast. How important are tangible intangibles like leadership mentality and work ethic in evaluating players, particularly when stats might not tell the full story? I think it makes, makes or breaks. Guys in the draft, the all the stuff that you cannot measure. How much you like football, how hard you study football, how tough you are, how smart you are. And when I say smart, I don't mean like academically, how good of grades you have, how your football IQ is really high. It is, I would say people do not fail in the NFL that meet the physical requirements, that have a high football IQ and are tough. They're lazy people make it. But if your football IQ is high and your talent is high, like, you can make it. It's really hard. I remember Jim Washburn taught me this. He's like, you can be lazy, you can be dumb, but if you're both, we got no shot. So I just think no matter what you do, certain positions factor in. Like, it's impossible to play middle linebacker if you don't know what's going on. It's impossible to play quarterback if you don't know what's going on. Safety, there's some positions you don't need to be, like, brilliant football iq, like a guard. But you cannot excel at guard, assuming that you have the proper strength, athleticism, arm length, all that stuff. If you're soft like you just, you have no shot, you will get fucking ruined. And soft, there's a big difference, like soft in society and like football soft like you could be like tougher than most people, but if you're like not like your toughness, I think it's borderline impossible to not be like a 9 out of 10. You don't have to be that a wide receiver. So every position is a little different, I guess, the more I think about it. But the intangible stuff's really, really important. Question for the mailbag when looking at running backs available in this year's draft, what's the difference in the value you see with the top five prospects? I want the Bears to take it back, but in the second or third round, is Genti really that much better than the prospects like Caleb Johnson or Hampton? I would say over the next month I'm going to look a little into that. I've watched some cut ups on Hampton. He's clearly really good. He's the North Carolina running back. Ohio State's running back is really, really good. I think a lot of people would say, like the dude from Iowa. There are a lot of guys that you're just going to be able to get a pick like 60 or 70 or 80. They like are going to start in the NFL. I just think you look at it historically, you know, Genty, I don't think he can be viewed as the same level prospect. Some guys got drafted really High recently at 58 and coming from Boise State, you know, Bijan Robinson, Saquon Barkley or Christian McCaffrey. Let's use those three guys. An example, if you were the Bears or even the Raiders and you told me that Raiders took Saquon Barkley or Bijan Robinson or Christian McCaffrey, I'd be like, I get it. Wouldn't love it, but I get it. This guy is not on that tier and it feels like I'm hating on the guy. I fucking love the player. I just don't think you can take them really high. And what are The Bears drafting? 10? I do not think you can do that. And I don't think they will. I really don't. If I had to guess Right now, March 23rd, things can change. I would guess he goes after pick 15. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would guess when the dust settles. I have a hard time seeing someone pull the trigger on a five eight running back in the top 15 every year before the start of the season. It seems like a majority of the media covering the NFL picks the Raiders to be the worst team in the AFC West. The Chiefs obviously rule the division, but since 15, the Raiders are 510 and 10 against the Chargers and the Broncos, they're 13 and 7. The criticism we receive is well deserved. But why do we seem to take more shit than the other teams when they haven't done any better than us? With Spytech and Carroll in the building, proven coordinators in Chip Kelly and Patrick Graham and Tom Brady now having skin in the game, who's to say the Vegas doesn't have as good, if not better shot at getting closer to Kansas City than Denver in la? Well, that's fair. Like Brandon Staley era and some of the previous eras with Denver that I think there were people arguing that the Raiders were better than people thought. You know, going into seasons I think now it's pretty hard. Listen, Pete Carroll's resume speaks for itself. At 73, he's going all in on Geno Smith against Harbaugh and Herbert which are better. And we're just the fifth seed in the, in the afc they were the fifth seed and the Broncos who now have Sean Payton and a quarterback. So I think that's. That factors in. Now I hear if you want to argue like when some of the previous coaches were running the Broncos like the Vic Fangio era, Sean Payton and Jim Harbaugh, the Raiders team just isn't that good. Like those teams were playoff teams last year. I just think Geno tough spot. But I hear you. Like I actually think you guys got dramatically more. I don't think anyone's kicking the Raiders like they were four or five years ago. I actually think they're talked about pretty highly, myself included. Like I know Spytech a little bit stud. I've watched Pete Carroll's career for 20 plus years. Like no one's acting Tom Brady's best football player of all time. Clearly just a high level guy. I think most people go, yeah, the Raiders feel a little more normal now, but they felt like that at different times. Like Mark Davis still owns the team and shit just gets weird there a lot. You can say the same thing with the Chargers and it usually does. And then Jim Harbaugh comes in and then just all Jim Harbaugh does is ever he just wins. Chargers year one, fifth seed, boom. Just like that. Question for the bag. You know, Veech and Andy, they've invested multiple picks on the tackle position and flamed out every time. Why do teams struggle to evaluate the position? I'm gonna feel like a homer here. Even though I bet against the Chiefs, I think like three of the last four or five big games bet against him in AFC in the super bowl with The Ravens and the Niners and the Bills this year. So I probably need to stop betting against, I don't know. Guy pretty good coach Andy Reid and Brett Veach pretty good GM and a team that just wins a lot. So I apologize to Chiefs Kingdom for constantly betting against them and just losing money because they always win. Here's the thing with the Chiefs. They drafted the end of the first round and they have not been flush with cap space. And even if they were like who are you signing? Like what are the. I just don't know what they're supposed to do. Like, it is very, very difficult to find a starting left tackle at pick 32 or pick 64. It's just that's usually not where these guys are going. Look around the, around the league. Tristan worse. You know, I go back to these guys because they're the two best players when healthy, at their position. Like Trent Williams, Lane Johnson. Like most high level tackles go really, really high in the draft. Tyron Smith forever. It's, you know, you have some outliers. Yeah. Jordan Mylotta from Australia, who'd never played football in his life. Right. I mean, I Remember with the 49ers forever. Joe Staley was an incredible pick and he was pick like 27, I think. But he was like a former. He was kind of like J.J. watt of tackles. He was picked 28. That's like unheard of to find a guy that's like going to pro bowls that pick 28 usually you got to draft him pretty high. So I just think it's difficult. They're in a tough spot. They could have traded for Laramie Tunzel. The Texans would have wanted their first round pick. It's like, wait, why are you trading this guy? Why, why, why wait? We'll give our first round pick for a player but you're trading your left tackle. When your O line sucks. I do get like Washington, it's like, we'll give you a third now, second later. Not as hard. But it's like, hey, yeah, we want your first round pick. That's the only way we will trade this player to you. Like, feels a little weird. We're desperate here kind of. I mean, we're just in the super bowl. But it's like you're going to make us trade a first round pick. Because the Texans could not have done that deal with the Chiefs. Right. That they did to Washington. I think it's fair to assume that they wanted their first round pick. If you're the Chiefs, you're like, we can do our second, our first for a guy you're trading who's going to want $30 million a year. And like, again, why are you trading them? A couple days after DK was traded to the Steelers, I read a headline along the lines of Pickens was not among the players to welcome DK at the Steeler facility. A day later, another article saying George Pickens traded. Rumors are picking up. My questions is, if this is true, what would you trade for? I, I'm probably the wrong guy to ask because he was a second round pick. So 22, 23, 24, he's in a contract year. I, I'm not in the business of George Pickens now. I, clearly there are teams desperate enough and for the right price, I, I would definitely dabble. But like, I couldn't trade anything of value. I. 0 chance. Like, there's a reason a guy that was that talented was pick 52nd overall. Now you watch him, he's got a lot of talent. But when the Steelers can't handle a wide receiver, pretty glaring sign. And I think a lot of people go, well, yeah, DK to George Pickens. This is probably George Pickens last season on the Pittsburgh Steelers. Unless he becomes a dramatically different human being. Look at the last couple guys that they were like, yeah, we're not that into Chase Claypool. Yeah, we're kind of out. Antonio Brown, who had like the greatest six year stretch of all time. Like, yeah, we're out George Pickens trade block. I'm not, like, there are certain people I'm just not doing business with. Like Howie Roseman calls me. It's like, yeah, Howie, I'm not doing that trade. Billy Bean forever in baseball. Billy. I'm not that interested in Billy. Wait, you don't want our number one prospect. You want the seventh, ninth and 15th guy and then two of the three become all stars. Like, yeah, I probably shouldn't trade the guy Billy wants. And that's how I feel about George Pickens. I'm just like, there are certain people in a draft and I think the good teams do this. There are players. You're like, this guy is going to be in the NFL. More likely he's going to be a good player. I don't want him on our team. And usually that revolves around off the field, intangible, you know, stuff. You can't quantify the character, personality. Like, I don't want to be in business with him. Belichick made a long, long standing of doing that. Now sometimes he did some weird draft picks because, like, who did you just take in the second round? Like, well, his characters through the roof. It's like, bill, that guy's a fucking undrafted free agent. So there's a balance. But there are people on every team's draft board. Any team worth their salt, they're like, listen, clearly this guy's an NFL player. This guy could make a Pro Bowl. But we're not in the business of these type guys. I think the good teams are like, not now. The Steelers, they've always kind of like, done a good job of reclamation projects. Sometimes it works. I think the problem is sometimes it's like a stock. You ever, like, strike gold and you like 10x your money, you kind of chase that forever. Listen, I'm guilty of it. I've never had a 10x stock. But the moment you hit, you know, 2 or 3x, you're like, damn, I want to do that again. It's like, now just invest in Costco. Just. Just buy some Apple. Buy something that you know is going to work. It's like, no, I'm swinging for the fences. Then all of a sudden it goes the other way. I think Dave's done that sometimes, but, like, that's kind of why they've maintained, because their talent is always better than where they're drafting because they will take flyers. And I think the teams that stay away from that, like the. Like the Buffalo Bills, like, you think Brandon Bean and. And Sean McDermott would mess with George Pickens? No chance. None. Like Ozzy Newsomite of Andy Reid might. But again, like, they'll pivot fast. And it's. The difference is if I buy George Pickens from you for a fourth round pick, I'm not invested anymore. So it's like, if he starts acting weird, I can just cut him. Like, yeah, I'm out. And I think it's really risky for the bad teams like Carolina, you know, think of some of the bad teams that could use his talent. You want to risk this because George Pickens walks in like he's Randy freaking Moss. He thinks he's the best player on your team immediately. I would love to, like, have a cocktail with, like, TJ and Minka and Cam. What do you think of this dude? Really? No, really, like, what do you think of this guy? Probably give you everything you need to know why you should not trade for him. The volume.

[Nikki Glaser]

This is Nikki Glaser from the Nikki Glaser podcast. Have you guys seen this new commercial from Stand up to All Hate? It's basically Snoop Dogg and Tom Brady going back and forth with reasons that they hate each other. But then when you really listen to them, the reasons for the hate are just so stupid. I don't know. This commercial really got me. It's a strong reminder that hate in our country continues to be out of control. So join us at iHeart in standing up to it. If you see hate, speak up, call it out. Your voice is a powerful tool in this fight. You can learn more by following ot'supwithhate.

[Jeremy Hobson]

We live in a divided country and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Microsoft Representative]

In 2020, a group of young women found themselves in an AI fueled nightmare.

[John Middlecoff]

Someone was posting. It was just me naked.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Well, not me, but me with someone else's body parts.

[Microsoft Representative]

This is Levittown, a new podcast from iHeart podcasts Bloomberg and Kaleidoscope about the rise of deepfake pornography and the battle to stop it. Listen to Levittown on Bloomberg's Big Take podcast. Find it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Dressing. Dressing.

[John Middlecoff]

Oh, French dressing.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Exactly.

[John Middlecoff]

Oh, that's good.

[Jeremy Hobson]

I'm A.J. jacobs and and my current obsession is puzzles, and that has given birth to my podcast the Puzzler. Something about Mary Poppins? Exactly.

[John Middlecoff]

This is fun.

[Jeremy Hobson]

You can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears. Listen to the Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.