3 & Out - Honey Badger hangs it up, could J.J. McCarthy's job be on the line, Packers need to win

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd Episode: 3 & Out - Honey Badger Hangs It Up, Could J.J. McCarthy's Job Be on the Line, Packers Need to Win
Release Date: July 23, 2025
Host: John Middlekauff
Network: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume

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1. Introduction and Highlights

John Middlekauff opens the episode by announcing the retirement of NFL player Tyron "Honey Badger" Matthew. He emphasizes the symbolic significance of Matthew's career, particularly highlighting how non-high draft picks can evolve into team leaders and stars.

Notable Quote:
"Honey Badger's story is very symbolic of so many guys in the NFL, guys that are not super high draft picks that become stars and the impact on teams." — John Middlekauff [00:56]

2. The Challenge of Building an NFL Team

Middlekauff delves into the complexities of constructing a successful NFL team, focusing on the draft process. He discusses how general managers and head coaches are often tasked with turning around underperforming franchises by identifying and nurturing talent from the draft.

Key Points:

• Drafting players is not just about skills but also about character and team fit.
• The evolving perception and legality of substances like weed impact player evaluations and draft outcomes.
• Middlekauff uses Tyron Matthew's experience of being expelled for synthetic weed use as an example of how off-field issues can affect a player's draft stock.

Notable Quote:
"The stigma around weed, even though it technically is legal in some places, makes it hard to run a business because of it not being federally legal." — John Middlekauff [10:35]

3. Success Stories from Later Draft Rounds

Highlighting success stories like Tyron Matthew and Zach Tom, Middlekauff illustrates how mid-to-late-round draft picks can become pivotal players for their teams. He praises organizations like the Arizona Cardinals and Green Bay Packers for maximizing the potential of their drafted players.

Key Points:

• Zach Tom: Originally a fourth-round pick, Tom's outstanding performance led him to secure a nearly $100 million contract with the Packers.
• The importance of team environment and coaching in player development.
• Comparing the NFL's unpredictability to other sports like the NBA, emphasizing the unique human element in football.

Notable Quote:
"There's no other sport that can produce that quite like football. It's like this grand human experiment and the power of coaching, the power of these organizations." — John Middlekauff [22:00]

4. Job Security and Future Prospects

Middlekauff shifts focus to the potential job insecurity among NFL personnel, including quarterbacks, coaches, and general managers. He speculates on which individuals might be at risk by 2026 based on current performances and team dynamics.

Key Points:

• J.J. McCarthy (Packers): Middlekauff expresses uncertainty about McCarthy's future, noting the high expectations and pressure to perform.
• Kyler Murray and Trevor Lawrence: Discussions around their performances and the likelihood of them retaining their positions or being replaced.
• The impact of team performance on coaching and management positions.

Notable Quote:
"If JJ can't succeed in Minnesota, he's not going to succeed anywhere. And this thing is going to get intense from the jump." — John Middlekauff [28:30]

5. The Draft's Unpredictable Nature

Emphasizing the unpredictable outcomes of the NFL Draft, Middlekauff discusses how draft positions don't always correlate with player success. He cites examples of players like Trey Lance and Anthony Richardson, who were high draft picks but faced early setbacks.

Key Points:

• The importance of organizational support and player development.
• How injuries and team changes can derail promising careers.
• The contrast between quarterbacks drafted for their potential versus those evaluated on their current performance.

Notable Quote:
"There's no Jerry Jones, there's no Bob Kraft, there's no Jeffrey Lurie. Ed Policy is essentially the boss." — John Middlekauff [65:29]

6. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In his closing remarks, Middlekauff reflects on the unique challenges and opportunities within the NFL. He underscores the significance of team culture, leadership, and the human element in determining a player's success and job security.

Key Points:

• The critical role of head coaches and general managers in shaping team success.
• The balance between player talent, character, and the ability to adapt to team dynamics.
• Optimism about finding hidden gems in the draft and the ongoing nature of team building in the NFL.

Notable Quote:
"The NFL is weird. Weird shit happens. Things go sideways really, really quick. And obviously some of these quarterback situations, given the pressure of modern day football and the microscope that's on it, you better buckle up because this thing can get weird fast." — John Middlekauff [65:14]

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Summary

In this episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, John Middlekauff provides an in-depth analysis of NFL team building, focusing on the unpredictability of the draft and the emergence of late-round picks like Tyron Matthew and Zach Tom. He explores the pressures faced by quarterbacks such as J.J. McCarthy and discusses the potential job insecurities among NFL staff by 2026. Middlekauff emphasizes the human element in football, highlighting how team culture and leadership play pivotal roles in determining a player's success and longevity in the league. The episode offers valuable insights for sports enthusiasts interested in the intricate dynamics of NFL team management and player development.

Transcript

[John Middlekauff]

This is an iHeart podcast tired of.

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[Margie Murphy]

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[John Middlekauff]

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[Olivia Carville]

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[John Middlekauff]

What is going on everybody? How are we doing? John Middelkoff 3Now podcast hopefully everyone is doing great. Honey Badger Tyron Matthew officially retires. I I do think his story is very symbolic of so many guys in the NFL, guys that are not super high draft picks that become stars and the impact of teams. So I I just want to talk about a big picture, just why this is so difficult. I also thought I'd do five guys whose jobs could be in trouble in 2026. So basically on the line this year, quarterbacks, coaches, GMs and Ozzy Osborne died. Rip do want to give a quick little something at the end to Ozzy and obviously middle coff mailbag @johnmittlekopf @johnmittlekopf is the Instagram fire in those dms. Get your questions answered here on the show. Very, very easy. Just fire into my Instagram DMS and get anything answered here on the podcast. If you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to three and out. Appreciate everyone that has Spotify, Apple, itunes, wherever you may listen to podcasts, we got you covered. YouTube as well. Fire into the old YouTube. Appreciate all of you that have done that. If you haven't. All of our content is up there as well. But before we dive into football, you know, I got to tell you about my friends, my partners in the official ticketing app of this podcast. Game Time. Best in the business. What do you guys want to do? Did you guys want to sit in the house all day long every day just sit in your air conditioning and just. No, you don't. You want to get out and you want to do something fun. You want to go enjoy yourself. Listen, you know, depending if you got kids going back to school over the next couple weeks, if depending on what you do for a living, summer, we don't have that much longer. You know, it's going to turn. And then we got football season. So if you want to go to a football game, if you want to go to a baseball game, obviously, if you want to go to a concert, a comedy show, it's the best app I've ever used. It doesn't get any easier to use. You can search by the team, you can search by the venue. You can even save a little money while you're at it. So listen, I'm not just recommending these guys because we're business partners. I've been a loyal user of this product for years and I'm telling You take the guesswork out of buying tickets with Game time. Download the Game Time app, create an account and use the code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase terms apply. Again create an account and redeem the code johan for $20 off download the game time after day. Last minute tickets, the lowest price guaranteed. I'm fascinated by so many of you. Know, many of you guys that are listening work in all sorts of industries from medical sales to construction to, to finance, you name it, probably everyone. If we took a poll of everyone listening, we would find hundred different industries, right? And every industry is a little bit different. But for the most part, in most industries, the currency, the power of the product is not a human being. And that's what makes the NFL such a unique business. Obviously it's doing extremely well in terms of financially and popularity, but it's difficult. And if you're on the team side as a general manager, as a team president, as a head coach and you take over a franchise, typically when it's not doing well, you are tasked to build a good team. And the way most people build a good team is through the draft. And obviously times have dramatically changed when it comes to the judgment of weed and marijuana. I remember when the honey badger who retired today multiple time all pro, made a bunch of pro Bowls world champion. Actually, let me rephrase that. Super bowl champion. I hate world champion. This isn't soccer, this isn't baseball or basketball. It's an American sport. And listen, a lot of guys say it in the NFL. Howie Roseman loves saying world champion. It's super bowl, it's an American championship. But he won a Super bowl. Just an unreal player. And he's a great example. Now he got kicked out of LSU back in 2012 for synthetic weed, which I'll be honest, at the time I knew nothing about. Now I would say the stigma around weed, even though it technically is legal, in some places it's not legal, other places it's not federally legal. Anyone who's in the weed business knows that there are complications because it not being federally legal make it hard to run a business because of the write offs. But that's a whole nother conversation. Bottom line, getting kicked out of college for weed in 2012 seemed like, damn, that's this guy's a major red flag. It would not feel like that today. But he did get kicked out and he did not play his junior year. And he was one of the best players in the country at one of the best programs in the country. But because of that Situation did not get drafted the following year to pick 69. I think it's safe to say if he hadn't been kicked out of school and he had just played at LSU, he's probably a top 15, 18 pick. I mean he's, he's probably picked somewhere between 10 and 20 would, would be my guess. He was on a big time prospect, but major red flag and people like, can't touch this guy. A lot of problems. Now you look back at his career, he's been a team captain for every team he played for. I'll never forget when he went to the Cardinals, when the Cardinals drafted him and Bruce Arians and Steve Keim and Carson Palmer and they turned that around and within a couple years they're in the conference championship. And I remember an interviewer, Patrick Peterson, said, this guy's the heart and soul of our team. He goes to the Texans, team captain goes to the Chiefs. Those guys freaking loved him. I got a buddy on that staff that says beside like Kelsey and Mahomes, it's easily one of his favorite players of their dominant era. He's an absolute stud. But he fell and that's what makes this so complicated. I texted a couple of people today because I saw the packers paid their right tackle, Zach Tom almost $100 million. And I was like, I'll be honest, I don't know that much about this guy. Was he a high pick? No, he's a fourth round pick. So I text buddies on different playoff teams. I'm like, what's the deal here? And I got basically, listen, good kid was a high character guy coming out, but thought he was pretty average. I thought he would be a backup at most positions. Stunned, did not see this coming. Did not think he would be this good. Well, they just got a guy who's going to be their right tackle for potentially eight to 10 years. And if every team in the league realized what he would have been, he would not have gotten in the fourth round. And that's my point, is building this thing and trying to. And as training camps start, we're going to go, this team sucks. This team's good, this team's going to be back. What makes this so difficult is all of a sudden a couple of years in a Zach Tom for some other team will just be like a high end starter at right tackle. A guy that was drafted in the second, third or fourth round that should have been a top 15, 10 pick will just not be in trouble anymore. Will just not only be mature, but become a leader, become a Team captain and all of a sudden he helps that franchise go from shitty to good. In most of your guys industries, when you make an acquisition, when you merge with somebody, when you buy a product, when you do a business deal, it's pretty black and white. You can throw up the Excel spreadsheet, you can get the numbers. This makes sense. It does not make sense for most things. You can break it down simply to widgets. The problem in the NFL, you're dealing with humans and not only humans, you're dealing with young men. And I think anyone, our listeners are heavily skew men. Basically 100% is we mature late. And not every guy is Peyton Manning or Tom Brady and Super dialed at 21, 22 years old. Some of us are fucking idiots. Some of us need to grow. Hell, some of us just like need to mature. And you look back when you're 30, at what you were at 25, when you're 35 back what you were at 30 and you're like, I'm a different person now. As you should be. You should always be growing. It's no different with these players. And I think what's so exciting about this upcoming season is everyone thinks, and for the most part we know a handful of teams that are going to be good because they've been consistently good and, and as long as they stay healthy, they're going to be in the mix. But they're going to be countless other teams that hit on three or four guys that no one's counting on. Why? Because it literally happens all the time. All of a sudden your third and fourth round pick from this year and last year are high end Pro bowl players. And instead of going yeah, I kind of like the roster. It's like, damn, I really like the roster. It's what makes the NFL so fascinating. Like in the NBA for the most part, like they're going to be some high end players, but they're typically drafted really high. And occasionally there's a good player at like 14, another good player like 26. But there aren't that many good players drafted on a yearly basis. And if you hit on a second round pick, meaning the guy makes your team, that is a massive win. We find all pros all the time. On the third day of the draft we find guys getting 80 to 100 to $120 million that are drafted in the fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh rounds. I mean arguably the greatest player of all time was pick 199, the 49er starting quarterback. They just gave $180 million to was Mr. Relevant. So what I love about football is that it's like this grand human experiment and the power of coaching, the power of these organizations. One thing I heard when it came to Zach Tom is he really benefited from being in Green Bay. The organization deserves a lot of credit. No different than the Arizona Cardinals when they drafted Tyron Matthew. They had arguably his best friend on the team, Patrick Peterson. They had Carson Palmer, they had an old school, you know, kind of throwback coach in Bruce Arians. They were equipped to handle it. It's why whenever someone goes, well, the Falcons, they passed on Jalen Carter. I got news for you. Probably would not have worked. The Eagles were equipped to handle that situation. Why? Because they had Brandon Graham and Fletcher Cox in the meeting room sitting right next to him. And every day at practice, the guy standing across from him was either Lane Johnson, Jason, Kelsey, Jordan, my lotta Landon, Dickerson, a bunch of high end elite players. So the standard there and what was going to be tolerated is a lot different in some of these losing places. And some teams get crushed. Like, God, I can't believe they didn't take that guy. They couldn't take that guy. It's way too risky, you know, it really is. And I'm just fascinated by the draft. I'm fascinated by these players. I love watching guys who have issues early on figure it out and not only become high end guys, but become the heartbeat of teams, become the team captain, the team leader, the guy that everyone kind of follows. And it happens all the time. And there's no other sport that can produce that quite like football. Okay, let's, let's do a little thing that I like to call is their job on the line. And I just pick five guys or five situations. And I think, you know, there are a lot of big storylines in the NFL and we will get to those as training camp goes. But I was reading an article last night that went, wow, I didn't realize that these two guys could potentially lose their job at the end of the season. So it got me thinking, why don't I make a little list of some guys that I don't think most people are talking about. Like, is this guy's job on the line? And I think you could make a case that it is. So we're going to start with number five. I'm going to start with the Atlanta Falcons. They have underachieved unlike any franchise since Matt Ryan left. They've drafted all these skilled guys and last year everyone told me they were going to cruise to the division championship. I said, no chance. Now, I picked the Saints, but of course the Falcons didn't make the playoffs this offseason. They trade up in the mid twenties and use a first round pick next year. Why do you do something like that? Because you realize there is pressure from the owner. The owner's in the mid. In his mid-80s. He literally just put himself in his own team's hall of Fame. Arthur Blank, I think it's safe to say that, like, he feels the clock ticking. And I have a hard time seeing Raheem Morris, who everyone anointed. Hell, he anointed himself. He said, the reason we have such a big coaching staff, because we're going to win and these guys are going to get hired. So we want to have their replacement on the staff. Raheem, you seem like a nice guy. No one's hiring guys from your staff at 8 and 9, I'll promise you that. And I don't know how anyone with a brain could pick the Falcons this year to make the playoffs. Doesn't mean they can't, right? I'm a Michael Penix fan, but I think there is tangible pressure on this organization to not only go above.500, but to win that division and be in the playoffs. Because I think if you don't win that division, you're not in the playoffs. Like, I think that is a one playoff bid division. And as we're sitting here right now, I'm giving it to the Bucks. But I think that these guys, that whole thing could get blown up, which could be ugly. They just used a high pick on Michael Pennix. They've obviously drafted guys like Bijan and Drake London, a bunch of guys really high. And now this last draft, they, I mean, got really, really aggressive. I think if they were to underachieve like last year and what, Michael Penix doesn't work. Whatever happens. I mean, their defense hasn't been good for a while. I think you could see that building detonated. And Arthur Blank starting all over a couple years after firing Arthur Smith, number four. This one's interesting because, like, this guy's clearly talented and an NFL quarterback. And when you watch him and he's on, he's as dynamic as anybody. And he can have drives, he can have halves where you're like, he is killing these guys. I remember two years ago when he came back from injury, Kyler had a couple drives against the Eagles. It was like as that team was falling apart, you're like, this guy looks remarkable. And he had moments last year where you're just like, what is going on now? It's not all his fault. I think, you know, Marvin Harrison. Listen, if you could do a redraft as we sit here today. I don't think anyone's taking Marvin Harrison over Malik Neighbors. And I think most people in the NFL, especially people that weren't tasked with the decision to make, a lot of people had Malik Neighbors over him. That being said, like, Marvin Harrison was still a big time prospect. They need a lot out of him. They have a stud tight end. They spent a bunch of money on defense. They drafted a couple really good defensive players high. I think there's some tangible pressure on this team to take a step. They have, you know, relatively new gm, a relatively new coach who I like. I think they've done a good job. Like I like. I look at their roster, I go pretty good. I watch Jonathan Gannon and I go pretty solid. His team has played their balls off the last two years and now they have some talent. But, like, this is the NFL. Like, can you make the playoffs in Kyler's year starting? Obviously they've only made the playoffs one time and that was the year they started like 10 and 1 and they fell apart at the end. And then they got worked in that playoff game against the Rams. So I just think you get to a point where, okay, he's really talented and are we going to ever win with this guy? And he's one of those unique players where it's like you go eight, nine, maybe you still want to stick with the coach and the gm, but what if they go, we want someone else at quarterback. We want to pick our own quarterback. He would be the type player that would still have some value. So if I was a betting man right now, and I know they're kind of like the trendy hipster pick is people taking the Arizona Cardinals to make the playoffs. I'm not going to do that. And I think they miss. 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[John Middlekauff]

Another guy we have seen two recent examples of guys drafted in the top five to teams that view themselves as playoff teams. One team literally was the 49ers. They had super bowl aspirations. They take Trey Lance, by the end of year two, they're like, this guy's done. Bring in Sam Darnold. You guys kind of compete for the second job. Actually. You're the third string quarterback. No, you're out of here. We traded you. He was traded before week one of his third year. Anthony Richardson is going into his third year. I think we all know how this thing's going to end. Daniel Jones is going to be starting week one. So these were two quarterback drafted third and fourth overall. You know the Colts, not nearly as good as the 49ers, but like the Niners because they're crappy division, they have playoff aspirations. This isn't just we're drafting you high. We can suck. You can figure it out. Kind of like a Bryce Young situation. Hell, he even got benched in year two. I do think J.J. mcCarthy's in a unique spot. I have no clue what he's going to look like. None. I do know this, that if I, if I assume Jaden Daniel is going to stay really good, if I assume that Bo Nix is going to just maintain and be a solid starter with Sean Payton, I'm going to bet on those two guys. I think it's safe to say to buy some stock into Drake May with Josh McDaniels, Mike Vrabel, like, I just think that thing's going to kind of work. We have a long history of knowing like a lot of quarterback drafts, 50% of them at best hit. Some of these guys are going to fail. You know, Caleb's got, Ben Johnson, got a really good roster. You would think he would make some incremental improvements. Penix, JJ McCarthy, the pressure. This team won 14 games last year and was 30 minutes away from being the number one overall seed and being 15 wins. Their starting quarterback through 35 plus touchdowns had a really, really good season. JJ's never played like that. JJ played on an offense and a team in college that was fucking loaded. I mean absolutely star studded. Everywhere you looked, offensive line, defensive line, running backs, overall defense and, and a head coach who philosophically believed in running the ball. When all else fails, call runs and we'll slam it down people's throat. And that's what we did. That's not how Kevin o' Connell plays. Because they are equipped to chuck that ball around. They have the best wide receiver in the league, arguably him or Jamar Chase, which is ironic because they both played on the same college team, unstoppable and didn't lose a game. Addison's a stud. They got players everywhere. They've added a lot in free agency. There is no just like, oh, we'll ease into this thing if this does not go well. Like, I do think J.J. mcCarthy could be one and done. This isn't 1996, this isn't 2007. And it's, I guess it's no fault of his own. He got injured last year, but last year just didn't happen. So if this year goes bad and they were to miss the playoffs, are they just going to give him a long Runway? Trey Lance didn't get one. Anthony Richton didn't get one. Trey Lance played four games. So I just think that the clock is ticking and this thing is going to be intense from the jump. The other guy that no one's talking about, that I just have to wonder, is this going to work?

[Olivia Carville]

Is.

[John Middlekauff]

Given the hype, there is no disputing that Trevor Lawrence has been one of the more underwhelming high draft picks in recent memory. He's not like one of those where you just like out of the league just totally sucks. But he's definitely not one of those where you go, God, lived up to the hype. What an awesome player. If anything, he just leaves you pretty frustrated. I was told there this guy was going to be the greatest thing since Andrew Luck or Paid Manning. And you watch him and you just go, I don't know. I don't see it now. I think it's easy to go. He plays for the Jacks. Franchise has been in shambles and the organization has just struggled to figure it out. The, the owner, from a GM to their coaching situation, it's just been a mess. I look at Liam Cohen and I go, well, how did Liam Cohen become a high level coaching prospect? Because of two guys. Really? Three. Obviously Sean McVay put him on the map, but when it comes to players and it comes to quarterbacks, it was Matt Stafford and Baker Mayfield. And when I think of those two guys, I think ultimate football guys, like absolute badasses, lay it all on the field. Their teammates love them. Just throwbacks. I mean, you could, you could picture Baker or Stafford playing in the 60s, playing in the 70s. Obviously both, especially Stafford, made a ton of money, but it feels like they would have played for free, right? That's the passion, the toughness they show. They're just awesome players to watch. It's easy to watch them on television if you're at a game and go, this guy's just a badass. That has not really been Trevor Lawrence thing. I mean, hell, when Trevor Lawrence was coming out, his dad was like, yeah, football's not everything. He's got other loves. You know, it's like, yeah, I think Baker and Stafford, like really love their family, but like, football means a lot to him, you know, And I just wonder, like, Liam Cohen looks at football through the eyes of those two competitors. And I understand he's been paid a lot of money, but we have seen recent examples, Russell Wilson is a good one. That like those days, if the head coach doesn't like you and doesn't want you, like if this thing does not go well. And they, they obviously traded a future first round pick to get Travis Hunter. So all of a sudden, if this gets weird, which I think is very possible given that Trevor Lawrence has proven nothing in the NFL, that maybe a little bit this offseason is like, yeah, we'd probably entertain giving him up because we're going to need some picks, we're going to need some reinforcements and just go, yeah, this is not our guy. This isn't our type player. And like any young coach, it's like, I'm not saying that he, he shouldn't be willing and fired up to coach the guy, but I think we've seen this song and dance before. So if I was a betting man and you tell me that this JAG season does not go as planned, which I would, based on the last decade plus of history, probably not going to go well. I would say everything would be on the table for Trevor Lawrence next offseason. And this is one I did not see coming. I was reading the actually watched this show called Missing Amy or Amy's Missing or it's just this crazy ass documentary on Netflix. But between episodes, I like clicked on my phone in the Athletic, the website came up and it was about this new president because Murphy just retired from the packers and his name is Ed Policy. He is the son of Carmen Policy, who forever was like Eddie DeBartolo's consigliere who became like the CEO of the 49ers during the bill Walsh, George Seifert, Joe Montana, Steve Young days. It's like, damn, this is Carmen Policy son is now running the packers and he's in charge. And what makes the packers unique is there's no Jerry Jones, there's no Bob Kraft, there's no Jeffrey Lurie. Ed Policy is essentially the boss And Gudekens and lafleur, who I think are good and I expect them to be good this season. I'm going to pick the packers to win the division. That being said, they have two years left on both their contracts and they're coming off kind of just a weird season. They went 1 and 5 in the division. You know, Jordan Love was just a little hit or miss. I think part of that was injury. But still it's. This is a result based business, right? You can give me excuses till the cows come home. At the end of the day, no one really gives a fuck. And reading this article on the athletic Ed Policy is behind these guys. He's rooting for him, but he's openly said like, listen, like we got to get it done. Now. I don't think they had to win the super bowl, but I do think, I don't know if these two guys, because most people do not go into a lame duck season. Most people, GM or coach, do not do what Mike McCarthy just did or Joe Douglas just did. It's pretty rare, especially when you have someone above you that did not hire you. Now I'm only bringing. This would not cross my mind. I didn't think about these guys being on the hot seat. I don't even necessarily think they're on the quote, unquote hot seat. But after reading this article, I went, there is some pressure here. Like if you don't win, you're telling me this guy who's a lifetime football guy, who's been around football since the day he was born, whose dad worked with Bill freaking Walsh, who helped build with Eddie DeBartolo the big one of the great dynasties in the history of professional sports, These guys better win. These guys better have a good season. There is more tangible pressure on this group than including Jordan Love. Then I realized I went, damn, maybe people are talking about this in Packer land. But I went, I don't. Could they just have like a off season and go 8, 9 and just keep their jobs? I don't think so. So I think there is sneaky some pressure in Green Bay to win, you know, to win the division, to host a playoff game and just show some positive momentum with Jordan Love for Ed Policy to go. Okay, here's an extension. Matt LaFleur and Brian Gudigins, you are my guys for the future. But so I, you know, from Guta Kinsela floor to Trevor Lawrence to J.J. mcCarthy to Kyler Murray to the guys in Atlanta, I think all these teams, like wouldn't shock me I mean, I expect the packers to make the playoffs, but hell, I mean I expect the 49ers to compete for the super bowl last year and went 6 and 11. Like the NFL is weird. Weird shit happens. Things go sideways really, really quick. And obviously some of these quarterback situations, given the pressure of modern day football and the microscope that's on it, you better buckle up because this thing can get weird fast. I want to end on this. I love music and my go to musical genres have always been rock and country. And I grew up listening to like gangster rap. Don't as much, but I still throw it on when I'm working out. But I don't listen to that much new stuff. I realize the majority of stuff that I listen to is from like the 80s and 90s. The older I get, I'm like, I kind of feel like my dad, like when I was a kid, my dad always listened to old music. I'm like, I hate this stuff. And now when it comes on, like I get emotional. I listen to it all the time. But the thing I respect most about a musician, especially someone, and I think you could say this in rap too, guys who are really versatile, who can do a lot and I mean, by the time I came into my own listen to music in the mid-90s, Ozzy Osbourne was one of the biggest, you know, and most established rock stars, like the history of America worldwide. Obviously he's not from America, but you know what I mean. But I think, you know, the thing I've always respected about like Metallica is and I think it would be easy to get pigeonholed as like a aggressive rock metal band is just being able to do one thing and one thing really well. And that's play like really loud aggressive music. But some of Metallica's best songs honestly are kind of like slower ballads. I would say Nothing Else Matters is like one of my favorite songs of all time. And I would say the same thing about Ozzy. And I think a lot of people, especially if you're around my age, the thing you remember most about Ozzy is the reality television show when he was, you know, it feels like he's kind of been in La La Land for, for a long time. And obviously he's been sick now for a while and I think he just raised like a couple hundred million dollars playing like two weeks ago. I mean he just played like his final concert of all time, I think over in London. But Ozzy was really talented and I think the one thing you can get away with now in any genre, this speaks for country, this speaks for rock, this speaks for rap, is with technology, I think you can kind of fudge it a little bit. And the way I always judge a musician is like, I, especially with the country, Iraq, like I kind of go to your acoustic version. Like, what do you sound like? What do you sound like if it's just you and a guitar, can you fucking hang? And you had to back then because the technology did not exist. You could not fake it, right? And now, and listen, I sound like the old man, get off my lawn. But I do think based on technology and based on the ability to manipulate sound, you can fake stuff a little bit. And when you go to listen to Ozzy, just type in some of his stuff in like the 80s, you know, even the late 70s, it's hard because the sound quality is not as great given the way it was filmed. But it was like, God, this guy's fucking talented. This guy can really, really sing. And I think the other thing that's kind of dying and part of this is with cameras and technology, it'd be hard to get away from it. There is something to be like anyone my age or older that grew up on the quote unquote rockstar that would just do crazy ass stuff. There was something, I don't know, mysterious, just cool about it. Even though it's like, yeah, he just burned down the entire hotel and then he woke up in the pool with a bag of drugs and his bus was on fire right next to him. It's like that, that type stuff doesn't really happen anymore. But it felt like all these stories that you heard about Ozzy, one defining was the bit the bat's head off. Like that stuff just is a thing of the past. And I just think that Ozzy's a dying breed of rock stars. One where if you didn't have the talent, you literally had no shot. Like you had no shot. If your talent was not elite, it was impossible because you could not fake it. And obviously from a personality and just a, there's a craziness factor that you can't really fake. And clearly he had it. And obviously as he got older, you could feel the impact of the way he lived his life in his true rock star heyday. Because I would say, you know, his prime, whatever that might be, mid late 70s through the 80s, was just an all time musical career in the heyday of just pre camera phones, pre cameras, pre social media. I've always respected this. If you became super, super famous before the Internet, it was typically. I mean obviously you could have like an incident like if you're Monica Lewinsky and you're giving him a BJ under the Oval Office desk. Like there were situations where people could get famous that way. But I mean like if you were an athlete, if you were a musician, if you were an actor or an actress and you were like worldwide known and respected, like you had some talent and that's the way I would describe obviously is like there was a lot of talent in that body.

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[Turning River Road Team]

For My Heart Podcasts and Rococo Punch this is the turning river road.

[Olivia Carville]

I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life what that meant.

[Turning River Road Team]

In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to 10 girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse.

[Olivia Carville]

Why did I think that way? Why did I allow myself to get so sucked in by this man and thinking to the point that if I died for him, that would be the greatest honor?

[Turning River Road Team]

But in 2014, the youngest of the girls escaped and sparked an international manhunt.

[Olivia Carville]

For all those years, you know, he was the predator and I was the prey. And then he became the prey.

[Turning River Road Team]

Listen to the Turning river road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Margie Murphy]

In 2020, a group of young women in a tidy suburb of New York City found themselves in an AI fueled nightmare.

[John Middlekauff]

Someone was posting photos.

[Olivia Carville]

It was just me naked. Well, not me, but me with someone else's body parts on my body parts that looked exactly like my own.

[Levittown Team]

I wanted to throw up.

[Margie Murphy]

I wanted to scream, it happened in Levittown, New York.

[Levittown Team]

But reporting the series took us through the darkest corners of the Internet and to the front lines of a global battle against deepfake pornography.

[Olivia Carville]

This should be illegal, but what is this?

[Levittown Team]

This is a story about a technology that's moving faster than the law and about vigilantes trying to stop stem the tide. I'm Margie Murphy.

[Margie Murphy]

And I'm Olivia Carville.

[Levittown Team]

This is Levittown, a new podcast from iHeart podcasts Bloomberg and Kaleidoscope.

[Margie Murphy]

Listen to Levittown on Bloomberg's Big Take podcast. Find it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Katie Couric]

I think Democrats have, for a very long time, allowed Republicans to play them. So essentially, Republicans came up with a narrative and Democrats decided to play into that, and that only hurt the Democrats.

[Jasmine Crockett]

I'm Katie Couric. Jasmine Crockett, Democratic representative of Texas, is not known for holding back. And our recent chat on Next Question is no exception. But when you hear how she got to where she is, her intensity makes perfect sense.

[Katie Couric]

It's just hard to imagine a world where you don't have enough people that care to do right by people. And so that same passion that carried me through as a public defender, that led me to want to change laws and thinking about the harm that will happen not just to my constituents, but just generally. Like, I carry that weight with me.

[Jasmine Crockett]

Because you've seen it up close.

[Katie Couric]

Yeah.

[Jasmine Crockett]

Listen to next question with me, Katie Couric on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[John Middlekauff]

Let's do a little Middlekop mailbag at John Middlekop at John Middlekopf. Is the Instagram fire in those DMS and get your questions answered here on the show. We're gonna start with Adam. Got a question for the pod if you get a chance. When a coach calls the plays for one side of the ball, like McVay or LaFleur on offense or D' Ameco on defense, what does the team's coordinator on that side of the ball actually do? Do they help the coach create the scheme on that side of the ball, or is the coordinator sort of expendable when you got the head coach calling that side of the game? On the other hand, when a coach is viewed as an offensive scheme Guy Sark, DeBoer or a defensive scheme guy Saban or Kirby, how much do they actually contribute to the development of the scheme of on the other side of the ball where they're not viewed as as much of an expert. Thanks. I think I can speak better to this. With an offensive coordinator, typically your offensive coordinator, right. And there's a ton of them in the NFL now. Kevin, McVeigh, LaFleur, Kyle, you know, Andy kind of goes both ways, but day ball has kind of gone back and forth too. Typically they have their coordinator. A lot of times they have a run game coordinator. So his job will be to scheme the run plays or play a major role in the film development early in the week of the running game. And then a lot of people now split it with a run game, pass game coordinator. And those people work with the head coach to develop the game plan. I think if you went, even if you didn't have, quote, unquote, a coordinator, right? When you go into an offensive meeting room on Monday afternoon and Tuesday developing the game plan, the offensive line coach, the wide receiver coach, the. They're all kind of throwing different ideas around. So it's. I would say most of the best organizations are pretty collaborative, collaborative operation. But typically the coordinator is going to have a strength, right? Like when Mike McDaniel was Shanahan's coordinator for a year or two before he became the Dolphins. Like, he's a run game guy. It's what he's really, really good at. Right. Kevin o', Connell, more pass game oriented. So I think you just help with your strengths and the stuff you're not as good at. You probably, you know, listen and learn and try to get better at and know, like, if I become the coordinator of calling plays, I need to improve in that level. Obviously a lot of offensive line coaches play a big role in the run game, but I think it's pretty collaborative. You know, obviously the final decision is made by the coordinator, which now in the NFL is a lot of times the head coach. I think defensively, in the example you gave, even we could use college and pro like d', Amico, Kirby Saban. They have a huge, huge impact on defense because philosophically, they have beliefs as a head coach. Right. Even if I'm not calling offense or defense, if I'm Nick Saban, you are running philosophically, what I want you to run, right? It's why I've hired you. It's why we spend all the off season during training camp. My hands are very, very involved. There's rare cases where it's like, probably like Andy with Spags. Like, Spags is so good. I'm not saying that they don't talk, scheme and like, he doesn't have an influence but that would be pretty rare, right? Maybe solid now. Back with Kyle. Gets a little more free reign. The head coach is kind of in your ass about cons, especially if you are struggling or have a bad game, about things he wants to see, especially during the game. I think we would be stunned how often a head coach gets on the microphone to the opposite side of the ball, especially if it's a defensive head coach. Run the ball here. I want to. I'm not telling you what play to call. I want to run. I slow down the game. I want to run because he's in charge of the game, and that's what is challenging when you're a coordinator. Also, the head coach is like, you know, the offense comes off. You kind of got to gather yourself. That's where you need the assistance to help kind of manage everything, because you still got to watch the game. If they need timeouts, there's a lot of shit going on. It's a good question. I got to push back on your opinion of Dylan Raiola. You repeatedly talk about him not being any good. This is only compared to the unrealistic expectations outsiders place. He was dramatically better than anyone who played quarterback recently in Nebraska, led us to our first bowl win in a decade. You have high praise for Colorado, for Colorado. Nebraska dominate them. I don't know if I'd give high praise for Colorado. I just. They. They were 1 in 11 or whatever, and two years later, they're winning eight, nine games. And I would say Shador is proved to be a better player than Riola. I'm not saying Riola sucks. I. All I said was, relative to a guy you're given four or five million dollars to, I would say the same thing about Nico. The expectation was like, this guy could be a number one overall pick. So, yeah, if you're comparing him to. What was the quarterback's name from Fresno? Adrian Martinez. Obviously, he's. I would take Riola over Martinez, but the guy that was supposed to go to Ohio State and Georgia. No wonder Kirby's like, yeah, we're not paying this, you know, now we'll see if Kirby's guys any good this year. But I. I think part of the hype and part of the money adds to an unrealistic unfair expectation. Right. The expectation for this kid at Michigan that they just gave 15, 20 million dollars to is outrageously high. Number one overall recruit, all the billionaires ponied up money to buy him from lsu. So, yeah, I'd say anything less than him throwing a bunch of touchdowns and Looking unreal in the big games. It's going to feel disappointing. So is it unfair? Probably a little bit. Would we have judged Riola the same way 10 years ago? Probably not now. It's just there are unfair expectations and I think there was just a recklessness to his game. But Holgerson has a long history of being a good offensive coordinator, so I'm excited to watch. I do not think by any means, like he's just going to suck. I just said based on last year for the expectations, it felt underwhelming. I mean, there was one game where you guys had like a 4th and 50 in overtime. Again, he's 18 year old kid. Totally fair. But the expectations now for these young players and the hype machine is just borderline out of control. Love the pod. Congrats on starting a family. That's awesome. Lifelong Bengals fan, not a question, but just want to know, just want you to know. Joe Burrow will overcome the Browns family. Bring the Bengals Super Bowl. That's how good he is. I mean, if he does, he'll be pretty legendary. The Bengals got a lot going on in terms of the owner talking, the GM talking, Shemar Stewart's agent talking, Trey Hendrickson talking. It's, it's just, it's, it's Good thing it's July 22nd. I think you got a couple weeks to just figure this out. But once you get to like mid August, one thing for Trey, like he could probably show up a couple weeks before, be fine. The rookie, this was a guy who got four and a half sacks. Is he. Are they going to figure this out? If it is true, and I'm not. I'm no contract negotiator, not no Harry Roseman here. But if Mike Brown is simply arguing and other teams have done this too, like if you go to jail, we're not going to pay you. I'm sorry, I'm on the Bengal side on that one. Especially if other teams this year have had the same language because they're like, well, the Bengals had that language in before. Well, so did other teams. Now they're pulling it out in 2025 because if it's simply as if you go to jail, we don't have to keep paying you. I'm on the team side now. It's, there's a lot of back and forth. They've both kind of lost me. But it's got, it's got to be exhausting to be in part of these situations. How do you prepare for a podcast? I know Colin has a two hour routine. Do you review DMs ahead of time, then rehearse your answers or takes, or do you read them in real time? Because your gift of gab is so. You seem so natural. I appreciate that. The main meat of the podcast, like any topics and angles I'm going to take, obviously, I typically get up, I would say once football really gets going, I try to get up between 6 and 6:30. I go to the espresso machine, I make myself a double shot, I come to my desk, I check the stock market, I slam that espresso, I make a big Stanley so I can hydrate for an hour, an hour and a half. I try to just throw some initial thoughts together, see what's going on. Then I go to the gym and then I usually come back and then I kind of hammer that out with the DMs. I used to go through Instagram, but Instagram, you can't really sort that well. So what I do is before we do the mailbag, I go, I pick like 10, 15, however many unread or until I feel like we got at least 30, 45 minutes of content. And I just take screenshots. So, I mean, I kind of read over them, but I don't have like a rehearsed take on Dylan Raiola before I press record. Unlike the meat of the podcast, I do. And for those on YouTube, we split it up. So it's like two separate things. But as a lifelong Eagles fan, I have a question about McNabb, who is my favorite player of all time? How is he viewed within the Eagles organization when you joined? Also, do you think he could have won a Super bowl if he had been given more offensive weapons? Well, when I got hired, he had just gotten traded to the, to the commanders. So when I got there, it was supposed to be Kevin Cobb's first year starting, and then, then he got KO'd in the first game by Clay Matthews. And then Michael Vick came in and Michael Vick just kept playing. So I never was around McNabb, you know, when I first got there, just trading McNabb, he was older, kind of falling apart. It, you know, it's. I don't want to say the wounds and the situation was fresh, but it was like anytime you come into a situation where a guy had just left, it's not like I showed up in O2 in the peak of his powers for the next five years. So I think obviously he was a huge reason. He changed the course of that franchise with Coach Reed. And I think Big picture, he's viewed pretty highly there. But when I, when I got there, it was like a transitional period with Shady McCoy, Desean Jackson, guys like that kind of taken over and McNabb gone. My friends and I often have debated a hypothetical redraft of an NFL player. For this exercise, we will say the draft order is the same as it was this year. Every player currently in the NFL is on the board. How many quarterbacks do you think would be taken in the first round? The obvious ones are the top guys that we all discuss. But I'm curious to know how many teams would reach for guys in round one, given how crucial the position is. On a separate note, thanks for putting out content regularly. I appreciate it. I would say a great question. I would say at least 15 plus maybe once you got to like, you know, that line of 12 to 15 guys off the board, it's like, am I going to take two or am I going to take my chance in the second round? But it's like, what if two of goes in the 20s and then all of a sudden you're taking Will Levis? So I think a lot of you could argue they might be the first 20 picks because it's like, are you going to take. Would you take Micah Parsons or Panay Sewell or Jamar Chase or a guy like that over Kyler Murray? And again, in this exercise, you have to factor in age. Are we just talking one year? Because if just one year you feel comfortable taking Matt Stafford. If it's like over the course of the next 10 years, you know, Matt Stafford's probably not going in the first round or maybe he is, and you just go, we'll figure it out next year. In this hypothetical draft, do you think the Vikings could or would trade J.J. mcCarthy for Cam Ward? Who do you think will have a better career? No, that you? The Titans. There's no trade going on there. I don't think the Titans would make that trade and I don't think the Vikings would make that trade either. The Titans definitely would not make that trade. Feels like JJ will have a Matt Ryan career, while Cam Ward may be more like a Jameis Mariota. Cam Ward is way more physically gifted as a thrower than Mariota. He definitely has some Jameis to him. I feel like he's a better athlete than Jameis. Yeah, I mean that's. Some of these guys are not going to work out, right? We've had a lot of them in recent memory feel like work out. I mean, the draft were Burrow Herbert and Tua, like that's pretty unheard of. Listen, we can pick apart Tua, but like he's a legitimate starting quarterback in the NFL. Burrow is one of the best quarterbacks and Herbert is a top five or six guy. I would bet on Cam Ward over JJ McCarthy, but JJ in a way better spot. Really good coach, really good team, good defense, unreal weapons. If JJ can't succeed in Minnesota, he's not going to succeed anywhere. Question for the bag. I grew up a Cardinal fan watching Larry dominate the league. Played with some of the worst quarterbacks ever to play like Ryan, Lynn Lindsey, I think it's Lynn Lee, John Skelton, Josh Rosen, Derek Anderson, Drew Stanton, Blaine Gabbard. God, he did play with some scrubs. He put up insane numbers, but he never gets talked about as a top wide three wide receiver ever. He didn't get Joe Montana or Steve Young or Matt Stafford and dominate the league, but he went under. He was underrated his whole career. Where would you rank Larry all time? It's a good question. I mean he's one of the great playoff performers ever. I mean his, his performances in the playoffs feel like I was going to go pull up his stats really quick because his playoff numbers were just incredible. In the playoffs, Larry has 85 targets, 57 catches, 1,000 yards and 10 touchdowns. In the 08 run. He had 30 catches for 550 yards and seven touchdowns and averages 18 yards of catch. He was pretty unreal in that one when he, when they made the Super Bowl. Yeah, I mean he's just, he's a bright lights guy. I would say. The thing about Larry, just looking at his game logs, I mean he just didn't miss many games. He missed three, he missed one. He missed a couple. It feels like he missed like five games, like 15 years. Yeah, I mean I, I'd have no problem putting him as like a top 10 wide receiver of all time, but it's like, you know, Jerry Randy go really high. Terrell Owens, pretty polarizing. You could argue this, like, would you rather have Larry Fitzgerald or Terrell Owens? Terrell Owens was a freak show, but God, he was a pain in the ass. I mean Larry's like man of the year and all time great first ballot hall of Famer. I mean you can make him and Calvin Johnson, you can make the argument like just put them on any team, especially if they're good, they're going to be unreal. Imagine if you had put like Larry Fitzgerald on the Pittsburgh Steelers with Roethlisberger. Like imagine if Larry Fitzgerald was 25 years old right now, and on the Ravens he'd be unstoppable. So one thing with wide receivers, a lot's out of your control. I mean, a lot of those years. Think about some of the coaches Larry had, I mean, really beside Arians when he was older. And I'm pretty sure didn't Arians move him to the slot? I mean, Arians for a couple years, 109, 107. Larry kicked ass for Bruce when he put him in the slot. But some of those years, I mean, the peak of his powers, like four or five years in, he was a beast, man. Hunter catches 1500 yards, 96 catches, 1500 yards, 10 touchdowns, 12 touchdowns, 13 touchdowns. I saw him at this like barstool draftkings gambling thing, probably like, I don't know, four or five months ago. He is fucking big. It's like, how could you tackle that guy?

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[Turning River Road Team]

For my Heart Podcasts and Rococo Punch this is the turning river road.

[Olivia Carville]

I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life what that meant.

[Turning River Road Team]

In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to 10 girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse.

[Olivia Carville]

Why did I think that way? Why did I allow myself to get so sucked in by this man and and thinking to the point that if I died for him, that would be the greatest honor.

[Turning River Road Team]

But in 2014, the youngest of the girls escaped and sparked an international manhunt.

[Olivia Carville]

For all those years, you know, he was the predator and I was the prey. And then he became the prey.

[Turning River Road Team]

Listen to the turning river road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Margie Murphy]

In 2020, a group of young women in a tidy suburb of New York City found themselves in an AI fueled nightmare.

[John Middlekauff]

Someone was posting photos.

[Olivia Carville]

It was just me naked. Well, not me, but me with someone else's body parts on my body. Parts that looked exactly like my own.

[Levittown Team]

I wanted to throw up.

[John Middlekauff]

I wanted to scream.

[Margie Murphy]

It happened in Levittown, New York.

[Levittown Team]

But reporting this series took us through the darkest corners of the Internet and to the front lines of a global battle against deepfake pornography.

[Olivia Carville]

This should be illegal, but what is this?

[Levittown Team]

This is a story about a technology that's moving faster than the law and about vigilantes trying to stem the tide. I'm Margie Murphy.

[Margie Murphy]

And I'm Olivia Carville.

[Levittown Team]

This is Levittown, a new podcast from iHeart Podcast, Bloomberg and Kaleidoscope.

[Margie Murphy]

Listen to Levittown on Bloomberg's Big Take podcast. Find it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Katie Couric]

I think Democrats have for a very long time allowed Republicans to play them. So essentially, Republicans came up with a narrative and Democrats decided to play into that. And that only hurt the Democrats.

[Jasmine Crockett]

I'm Katie Couric. Jasmine Crockett, Democratic representative of Texas, is not known for holding back. And our recent chat on Next Question is no exception. But when you hear how she got to where she is, her intensity makes perfect sense.

[Katie Couric]

It's just hard to imagine a world where you don't have enough people that care to do right by people. And so that same passion that carried me through as a public defender, that led me to want to change laws and thinking about the harm that will happen not just to my constituents, but just generally. Like, I carry that weight with me.

[Jasmine Crockett]

Because you've seen it up close.

[Katie Couric]

Yeah.

[Jasmine Crockett]

Listen to next question with me, Katie Couric on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[John Middlekauff]

Loved your show with Colin over the weekend. What are your full thoughts around the WNBA CBA with you? Sparing sharing space with Colin in his show. I feel like you didn't have a chance to tell us your real take on the whole WNBA thing. I tend to fall with your thought. The W is nothing without CC and they have a hot pile of garbage. I think one main difference, like when Colin talks about that topic and when I talk, he talks about Caitlin Clark a lot on his show. So the wnba. He's kind of in that world. I followed the WNBA on the Internet, right? Like I know what Caitlin's doing because people are tweeting and Instagram posting and I see the highlights. I'm not sitting down and watching the Indiana Fever, but if I was going to watch a game, it'd be that I don't watch. You couldn't pay me to watch any of the other games. So it's like I don't pretend to care that much, but I love business and I love talking money. So if we're going to talk, what do they. I heard this saying a long time ago and I wrote it down. I'll never forget it till the day I die. Life is not about what you deserve. It's what you can negotiate. Business does not care about your feelings. And obviously for most of these sports, basketball, baseball, football, there's a revenue sharing agreement and it's typically around 50%. Right. I'm in the business of sharing revenue with people I'm in business with. Right. I wouldn't get out of bed for 9% right now. There are some people in business, you know, based on my podcast revenue. Right. I would never sign that deal. But if my podcast had lost money for years and I was still getting paid based on money that I was not generating. It's the conversation with. It's so funny to see everyone up in arms or that'd be. Let me rewind that. Some of the dialogue surrounding the late night television show, it's like, well, well, they're losing 40 to $50 million a year. There is no industry where you're gonna go year after year losing 40 or 50 million dollars a year on one television show and survive. Honestly, it's unheard of. They went this long. The WNBA is different. It's a lot like non revenue generating sports in college, right. Football program basically pays for all your other sports. Men's basketball, depending on the school, can make a lot of money. Some of the big schools, the women's basketball can make money, but all the other sports, especially the Olympic sports, lose money and are subsidized. So the, the NBA has subsidized them. Now if they've turned the corner now and are going to make money, I totally understand negotiating for a higher percentage. But like what is the fair percent? Would the league go under if you paid them 45%? Can you go from 9% to 50%? Probably not. Can you go from 9% to 25%? I think that can make some sense if financially you're still Making money. I also think this is the league really propped up by one individual. Like is the WNBA that popular right now or is Caitlin that popular? Caitlin did not play in the WNBA All Star game and the ratings were way down. It was well reported, whatever a month ago that when she got injured that the ratings in the league plummeted. So it's like, is the WNBA having some big renaissance or is one human being propping up the league? And obviously you can't just pay her like $5 million and pay every, you know, it's collectively bargained. But it's pretty complicated. You know, it really is. Some people arguing like, what about all the tech companies? Some of the biggest tech companies didn't make money forever and they could pay people. It's like, well, yeah, they paid in typically stock shares. So it's like if this hits, you get equity. Well, that's the problem with pro sports. There's only one person who has equity in the operation or a group of people, and that's the owner of the franchise. So I just think it's, you know, Ethan Strauss wrote about this, that the television ratings are going to go higher, but they're also included in the NBA's television deal. So it's like the NBA is in control, as they should be given that they funded the entire league. Do I think Caitlin Clark should make $75,000? Obviously she should make more than that. Some of the top players, of course, but I also don't really give a shit because I don't pretend. It's like that Shane Gillis joke, like everyone clapped for a reason. They had no clue. I don't pretend to be banging out these games on my couch. I know when she does well or when she's injured because I see it on social media. But I'm not watching the games. But I am paying attention. She's got me to pay attention. I also don't really like lose sleep. Like are they gonna have a lockout or a strike or a holdout or what? Whatever. Won't change my sports viewing habits at all. When scouting college players, are you more intrigued by a player who had one big final season with great numbers, or would you prefer a player that has played two to three years? Each year that player develops and gets substantially better, but may not have had the eye popping numbers in his final year like previous mentioned? Basically, which do you value more in scouting? One thing I learned obviously doing that and doing what I do now is you have to take every player as their own individual circumstance. You know, every Player is different from someone else. So it's like Joe Burrow had one big year. That clearly translated to the NFL. Jaden Daniels had one breakout year. It translated. Baker Mayfield had a huge long career at Oklahoma. That's translated. But this is also difficult. Like TJ Watt texting some of my buddies. I remember a couple years ago, I was like, what? How did this guy fall to the late 20s? They're like, well, I didn't think it was that good in college. So what we talked about with the Honey Badger, this is really, really hard. Obviously, if you have an unreal year, right? One year at the highest level. So at a big program and a big conference, you're proven that you can do it week in, week out. For now, with the playoffs potentially 14, 15 games, that's impressive. But if you have a long body of work, like some of the guy, like Caleb Downs for Ohio State, plays Alabama, unreal goes to Ohio State, unreal for a couple of years. It's like, he's going to be good. If he stays healthy, he's going to be an excellent NFL player. Jeremiah Smith, same thing. There are going to be some guys this year, that population. There are also some guys that have down years. Well, it's like why they have a down year? Well, they changed coordinators, the offensive line sucked, his quarterback wasn't any good and he only had 45 catches. But he's a big time player. So I think you have to look every single individual player as their own story. And that's where you, you know, you got to spend, especially a draftable player or a guy that's going to get drafted in the top, I don't know, 100 plus picks. Really understand all the different variables because this is not like in baseball. You can either hit or you can't, right? You can either run or you can't. You gotta, you gotta. You can throw 98 or you can't, right? Maybe we can develop a secondary pitch. But it's kind of like what you see with what you get. Is there anything to work with in football? There are a million variables. It's like, well, they had a big coaching change, they changed the scheme and it was an awful fit for his ability. But two years ago when he played in the zone defense, he was one of the best corners in the league. This year they played more of a man to man scheme. He's not the fastest guy. It kind of exposed him, right? So you got to factor all these things in. It's just a long way of saying that I Don't think either or it truly doesn't matter because Trevor Lawrence started as a true freshman, won the national championship. Number one overall pick, Joe Burrow was viewed as like a fifth round pick till his senior year. Then he was a no brainer. Number one overall pick. I just think it varies player to player. Question for the bag. Does Todd Bowles not get enough credit for making two solid consecutive hires at the offensive coordinator as a defensive head coach? Yeah, I mean, I think the organization gets a lot of credit. I think Todd is an easy personality. People really like working for him, clearly. I think he learned a lot working with Bruce Arians. Right. He's Bruce's guy, but Bruce is an offensive guy. So I think he's got a pretty good feel for what he's looking for. I think Jason has been in the league for a long, long time, been around a lot of coaches from Andy Reid to Belichick and has a very good field to help him out. And Baker Mayfield is just. Has proven to be an excellent guy for a coach to come work with. So I just think the organization, from the head coach to the GM to the quarterback, like the Bucks, have been really impressive from the pivot they had when Tom officially, officially retired. Like retired, but I'm not coming back in the middle of the summer. They deserve a lot of credit because they just kept on winning and it's not easy to find a quarterback. And they went from Tom Brady to Baker Mayfield and Baker Mayfield's like a Pro bowl level guy and that was an excellent transition. Okay, we'll end on this. Can you break down the podcast business? Does 100% of the podcast revenue come from advertisements or is Spotify Apple also paying for listens? Are there other factors at play? Apple does not pay for listens. Spotify pretty sure does not pay for listens. Advertising is a pretty massive part of the business, obviously. So whether we sell Travis Matthews or game time, they pay a. Once you get to a certain level, you negotiate a rate for a month, for a quarter, for multiple quarters, for the year, for a title sponsorship, for placement, maybe in the middle of the show. Obviously the price point varies from spot to spot. But, you know, best case scenario is you sell advertising to massive companies for a lot of money and they are a huge part of your business. And YouTube pays, you know, they pay a revenue split that just based on how many people you can have watching. And obviously through YouTube, like the podcast, you can integrate both to sell the advertising. Now, I don't, we don't do merch Here. But that is another big area. You know, barstool is a good example. They make a lot of money off selling merch. And so it's basically advertising. All podcasts essentially is. Is what radio was forever. The difference is in 2025, people do not listen to terrestrial radio like they consume podcasts because of the phone. But all radio was, was an audio version of newspapers, which was advertising distribution. That's no different what television is. Why is the NFL so valuable to CBS or FOX or ABC or NBC or whatever? Right. Why? Because they can have 10, 15, 20 million people watch the games, meaning they can sell premium advertising, real estate. And if I'm paying a billion dollars, I think I can make $1.5 billion. Math 101. I'm making a profit of $500 million. Again, I don't. I'm just making up numbers. But no different here, right? Once you get to a certain amount of listeners, start with a thousand, get to 10,000, get to 100,000 per episode, you can sell at different rates. Obviously the bigger podcasts, you know, are doing tens of millions of dollars and other podcasts are doing six to low seven figures and doing well. But it's typically just based on advertising. Yes, that's where I guess all of the money on this venture comes from, is from an advertising standpoint. But it was no different when I worked in radio or television. It's all. It's all the same business concept, right? It's using the content to market whatever companies and they pay for that space. Okay, before we get out of here, I got to tell you about Live Golf uk. They are playing at the JCB Golf and Country Club. I saw some pictures of it on the Internet. It looks pretty cool. Obviously lives coming off, you know, DeChambeau shot 78 in the first round of the Open and then he shot 16 under to finish in the top five. Hatton was really good. He was in the mix really most of the tournament. Mickelson made the cut. So always exciting to see these guys. Across the pond you got Jon Rahm, Legion 13, Bryson and the Crushers. So you can check it out this weekend at the JCB Golf & Country Club. Follow every shot on Fox Sports. Bryson, Phil Koepka, dj. DJ made the cut at the Open as well. Look, actually had some pretty good moments on Friday. Watch him play a little bit. We'll see the individual stakes at hand. Obviously, Waco Neiman has had a hell of a season, but John Rahm and Bryson DeChambeau are right on his tail. So again. Check it out on Fox JCB Golf and Country Club Live Golf.

[Levittown Team]

The Volume.

[Sarah Spain]

Join iheartradio and Sarah Spain in celebrating the one year anniversary of iheart Women's Sports with powerful interviews and insider analysis. Our shows have connected fans with the heart of women's Sports. In just one year, the network has launched 15 shows and built a Community United by Passion podcast that amplify the voices of women in sports. Thank you for supporting iHeart Women's Sports and our founding sponsors ELF Beauty, Capital One and Novartis. Just open the free iHeart app and search iHeart Women's Sports to Listen now.

[Ian Pfaff]

My Uncle Chris was a real character, a garbage truck driver from South Carolina who is now buried in Panama City alongside the founding families of Panama. He also happens to be responsible for the craziest night of my life. Wild stories about adventure, romance, crime, history and war intertwine as I share the tall tales and hard truths that have helped me understand Uncle Chris. Listen now to Uncle Chris on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Margie Murphy]

In 2020, a group of young women found themselves in an AI fueled nightmare.

[John Middlekauff]

Someone was posting photos.

[Olivia Carville]

It was just me naked. Well, not me, but me with someone else's body parts.

[Levittown Team]

This is Levittown, a new podcast from iHeart podcasts Bloomberg and Kaleidoscope about the rise of deepfake pornography and the battle to stop it. Listen to Levittown on Bloomberg's Big Take podcast. Find it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[John Middlekauff]

Just like great shoes, great books take you places through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you you'll never forget.

[Olivia Carville]

I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies.

[John Middlekauff]

I'm Danielle Robaix and this is bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from hello Sunshine and I Heart Podcast where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off. Each week I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry and add way too many books to your TBR pile. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Katie Couric]

This is an iHeart podcast.